Take a look at the topics from Dr.Rath on vitamine C intake,has a reserch center and works with a Dr who had 3 nobel prices.
Mike. 

Welcome!

Perhaps you will both find it interesting to read what other scientists (and WHO) have been saying on this subject: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthias_Rath.

yes thank you for that. this is why i want to emphasize im not pushing any ideas as such, just appreciating everyone (like yourself and mike007) who take the time to contribute to this topic. 

speaking from a purely layman's point of view i think some patients can feel (rightly or wrongly) that their doctors are so married to convention (as opposed to science) that they may be reluctant to at least investigate old problems from a new point of view. nothing so amazing about this - doctors are only human, and isnt it human nature to become attached to a particular pattern of behaviour? however this all too human stubborn adherence to convention in a medical context can lead to patients becoming so frustrated that they end up willing to try nearly anything to regain good health.  and that's why the false prophets can appear so seductive, because they offer hope, even if it is transitory and laced with deceit. i think we should focus on WHY so many people flock to medical charlatans rather than giving a surfeit of our precious time and attention to the criminals themselves. lock them up and forget about them and lets focus on fixing the despair that drives so many patients to their door. where does that despair come from? 

and any thoughts on linus pauling?

thanx again for posting,

m.

Manics, 

Thanks for posting this. 

OK, so we need a lot of Vit C.

But does anyone know:

- if the average western diet already gives us all the vit C we need. 

- if Vit C supplements are proven to be as efficient as Vit C from natural foods?

Nir

Then perhaps you should know there is more people living from cancer research(related to our vit C topic) than people dying from it. and you should take a closer look a t his (Dr.Rath) results, and why he is attacked !!

From an individual who studies nutrition, diet and exercise, I would tell you that you should try to get as much vitamins from natural food sources rather than from vitamin supplements.  The more you can intake from foods, the better.  The main reason is that foods offer more diverse vitamins, minerals and grains than you can get from any other source, including vitamins.  The Western diet typically does not provide enough vitamins and minerals that the average person needs.  Why?  Because we do not eat enough vegetables (and fruits) on a regular basis.  The average person NEEDS to eat a minimum of FIVE (yes that is the number 5) vegetables per day to get optimal health.  If you eat more, that is better.  9 is ideal, but 5 will provide the basis nutrition per serving.  And a serving size is about the size of your fist (1/2 cup).  You also need to eat whole grains and avoid white breads and starches.  Do not avoid breads, just the white kind.  

There is an excellent book called "the Culprit and the Cure" that was written by a nutritional scientist from Utah who wrote about the American/Western diet plan and how it causes a lot of our problems with health and how to fix it ourselves.  He studied all the different science out their currently on health and nutrition and wrote a book on all the research-- for the layperson.  It is common sense, but he does explain a lot behind the research.  I would recommend it highly.  You can get the book at amazon or at the welca.com website page.  Either one works.

Best wishes on eating properly.  It takes effort and determination.  If you can stick to a good diet for about 40-60 days, then you typically can stick with it and it becomes habit.  So best wishes on the endeavor.

Hi Lopiola,
No one sayd otherwise.I don't desagree with you,we are just talking about vitamin intake,not it's varius sources,though I could say if I catch a cold I take 1 gram of Vit C per hour,wich represents 20 kilos of oranges per hour and am not about to do that so I take it elsewhere.Michel.

Michel,

But to prevent or optimize your health, eating properly will assist beyond any external vitamins.  Thus you become ill less often.  You cannot prevent all illness/diseases, but you can assist your body in doing so.  That was more my point.  I understand that once you are ill, taking a vitamin will assist, but you may help yourself more by eating more fruits and vegetable than taking a vitamin.  In today's day and age, we look for the quick solution, but really vitamins care made by drug manufacturers and are not regulated by the food and drug administrations as much as other products. Many vitamins contain illegal drugs (at very low dosages) and other harmful ingredients that may hinger rather than help your body.  Getting food from the most natural source is always better for you than taking an artificial supplement (such as a vitamin).  I would encourage you to incorporate better nutrition into your diet rather than take supplements.  You will feel better, lose more weight or maintain a healthier weight, and provide your body with better results.  Science has proven that over and over again.  

I would also state that unless your doctor has stated that you are deficient in a certain vitamin, taking a vitamin is not necessarily the best thing for you.  Your body can only absorb so many minerals and vitamins and then the rest can build up in your liver and kidney on the way out of the body.  If you take a vitamin instead of getting food all naturally, then you maybe over-storing the product in your body (such as the Vitamin C example you stated) which your body cannot use and can create other problems (liver, kidney, cancer, intestinal diseases and the like) for you.  Taking 1 gram of Vit C per hour is basically overdosing on Vit C- which your body cannot use.  So be careful how you treat yourself when you are sick.  You are better off sleeping/ resting, drinking plenty of fluids (including OJ) and maintaining a healthy diet than overtaking a vitamin.  Lizbeth

I know Lizbeth, I recommend that as well since I do nutrition programs and took a class on cellular medecine, you make sound as if I sayd otherwise,I didn't. As far as Dr's recommandation I would never do that,there is a non manditory 3 week class in universty for pharmacists,doctors ect.. where they CAN learn how to read a blood test result, learn about vitamins,minerals and theyr necessary combinations.They have so much to learn that most students do not take that class! My college who has a doctorate in Pharmacology was in that class,and out of 40 students there only 1 attended that class,so no I would never ask a Dr'm advice on it unless he specialised on it afterwords.As far as Vit C it is a hydrosoluble vitamine and the body will get rid of it if too much(diarea)wich never occured.
I will now stop this forum, just tryed to be helpfull to maniks..Good video by the way! 

Lizbeth:

Thanks, helpful stuff.

So what could I do if I don't eat 5+ vegis / fruits per day? I know that's the recommendation, and I try, but most (if not all...) days I don't get there.

In that case, is there a recommended dose of vit C supplements I should take, and any known brands that are considered better than others?

Thanks,

Nir

I read a very interesting book called The China Study.

The authors recommend that people eat a whole food, plant-based diet and avoid consuming beef, poultry, and milk as a means to minimize and/or reverse the development of chronic disease.

The book does not speak very highly of vitamin supplements and says we should be able to get them all from our diet except for recommending that people not getting adequate sunlight exposure in order to maintain sufficient levels of Vitamin D to consider taking dietary supplements of vitamin B12.

Anyway the book is a great read and has some quiet scary facts which may or may not all be true but they are quiet backed up by studies.

I was told by my dietitien, that eat as much fruits and Veggies as I like. At least 2 different fruits is recommended and change during the week. If possible more raw veggies, and easiest is to each a salad with lunch and dinner.

Reduce meats, butter, cream, eggs (2 or less a week).

Dont drink soda drinks, reduce creamy deserts, avoid chips and similiar snacks. Instead eat dried fruits and nuts.

Very important is to reduce Alcohol intake of 2 drinks a day. Further long term daily drinking causes high levels of Limpide in the liver (cholesterol/fat), liver cant keep up wiht the alcohol intake so more cholesterol is input into your bodys blood and causes problems wiht your gaul blader, vains, etc.

Need to do 30 minutes of cardio exersise daily.

All the natural Vitamine C is not a problem. But if you have any questions, call Mrs. Mireille Peclard at 079 409 0981 is you have any questions or need help.

Dr. Mireille Peclard is a Dietician at Centre de santé SWICA at 079 409 0981

OK OK OK, so it's clear we all need to eat more fruits and vegies and cut out the bad stuff. No news there for anyone.

But I can't find an answer on the web to a simple question: if I can't eat what the docs recommend, and I think I ain't getting enough vitamines, do the vitamine pills work? Or are they a waste of money?

Nir,

A daily multivitamin pill from the parapharmacy will work, although there is evidence, that vitamins from natural sources are superior in effect - or rather, utilized better. I would stick to the manufacturer's/doctor's recommended daily intake (ADR) and not experiment with supplements too much. At the very least know which ones, you can overdose.

Regarding not being able to eat common vegetables (I presume, that is the issue), then try contacting a vegetarian organization. They are surely on top of suggestions and of vitamins in plants.

As an off-topic note, I would not buy any supplements from internet sites, anywhere in the world, as the percentage of professional-looking counterfeit medication and unregulated, unchecked supplements is high and rising.

I'll leave the task of googling for references to the readers :)

Are Supplements Really Necessary?
http://nutrition.suite101.com/article.cfm/are_supplements_really_necessary_

or
http://dietary-supplements.info.nih.gov/

or
Your Guide To Vitamin Supplements
Do You Really Need Vitamin Supplements?
http://www.nutritional-supplements-health-guide.com/vitamin-supplements.html

or
Take Your Vitamins - Dietary supplements such as vitamins and minerals may help to keep you healthy. Use these articles and resources to learn about dietary supplements.
http://nutrition.about.com/od/therapeuticnutrition1/Dietary_Supplements.htm

Supplements are not an alternative to getting the nutrients etc. from "real" foods, but for some poeple they are the only way they can reach the quantity of certain vitamins/fats that they need.

Nir, you, like all of us are short on time, so we struggle to get those "5 a day". I've over the last 6 months become fairly meticulous with planning my diet. When it's just not feesible for you to have all the vitamins and minerals/proteins you need. A supplementary form will suffice, but as everyone has said, this should not be a daily get out clause!

It also depends on your personal goals, are you trying to loose weight, gain weight or get healthy...there are so many differing theorys out there, if you find something where you feel good, just stick with it, or go and see a dietician!!

Sticking to a highly regimented diet is hard!!

Chris is totally 'right on'. I take suppliments just in case, but I eat salad and veggies with every meal (and is the majority) as we need all the vitamines, minerals, diverse proteins and carbo's from real food that is not over cooked, over boiled, over fried. We need to eat veggies and fruits wiht various colors, as they have alot of enzymes, minerals (Iron), and natural vitamines that are simple and natural to absorb and digest.

But if you drink too much you screw up your liver/gall blader/kidneys. As you then reduce the efficiency of the body to absorb what you need from either natural or suppliments.