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Global Forums > General > Hiking, Biking, Via Ferratta, other Activities, Disclaimers and Recourse
 
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Hiking, Biking, Via Ferratta, other Activities, Disclaimers and Recourse

Disclaimers and recourse are topices of conversation that are always coming up and the actions (misactions) of some glocals members have dissuaded some organisers from continuing to post certain events.


Everyone is personally responsible for themselves when taking part in any activity, regardless of who the organiser is or what their qualification, or lack of, may be.


This is a voluntary site.  We organise voluntarily.  You sign up voluntarily.  We're a community.


So in the spirit of community and in an effort to help you take responsibility for yourselves, here are two websites to help you:


http://www.rega.ch/en/home.aspx - everyone knows about this helicopter service, but so few people feel the need to join.  It costs CHF40 a year.  That's only 8 lattes per year.  You really wouldn't swap 8 lattes for a free helicopter emergency rescue?


https://www.echo112.com/en/ - install this app (iphone and android compatible) and in the event of an emergency, it will track you and alert emergency services to your exact location which solves the problem of you not knowing exactly which bit of the mountain you are on.


Obviously, you can ignore this post, but if you want to take part in my activites, but have no intention in engaging with either of the above, I'm taking this opportunity to advise you that I have no obligation to post a disclaimer and YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE.  End Of. Ever.


Thank you for your time and interest.  

The text you are quoting:

Disclaimers and recourse are topices of conversation that are always coming up and the actions (misactions) of some glocals members have dissuaded some organisers from continuing to post certain events.


Everyone is personally responsible for themselves when taking part in any activity, regardless of who the organiser is or what their qualification, or lack of, may be.


This is a voluntary site.  We organise voluntarily.  You sign up voluntarily.  We're a community.


So in the spirit of community and in an effort to help you take responsibility for yourselves, here are two websites to help you:


http://www.rega.ch/en/home.aspx - everyone knows about this helicopter service, but so few people feel the need to join.  It costs CHF40 a year.  That's only 8 lattes per year.  You really wouldn't swap 8 lattes for a free helicopter emergency rescue?


https://www.echo112.com/en/ - install this app (iphone and android compatible) and in the event of an emergency, it will track you and alert emergency services to your exact location which solves the problem of you not knowing exactly which bit of the mountain you are on.


Obviously, you can ignore this post, but if you want to take part in my activites, but have no intention in engaging with either of the above, I'm taking this opportunity to advise you that I have no obligation to post a disclaimer and YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE.  End Of. Ever.


Thank you for your time and interest.  


Carolyn CJul 19, 2017 @ 18:53
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Re: Hiking, Biking, Via Ferratta, other Activities, Disclaimers and Recourse
Post 1

My understanding is that in Swiss law


and French law the most experienced


member of a group is responsible in


the eyes of the law. So if there is an


accident the most experienced member


of the group is responsible because he


did not insist the outing be stopped. The


authorites view the law 'fairly' but in the case


of a death or serious injury, the family could take out a civil case


and go for the jugular and the case would be


jointly against the leader and the most experienced 


irrespective of the outcome, you have to think


of the costs which will be horrendous  


Just as an example, a couple of years ago


after the death of a participant on a mountain walk,


I was pulled aside by a relative and asked whether


the walk was beyond his capabilities - he had died of a heart attack  


I  am pretty sure that this correct but will check with a lawyer alpinist.


Just so you know I am a mountain leader with the CAS and


Geneverando and have insurance for official forays.  I also have  private insurance


for my private hikes.


The REGA Insurance is useful but anyone working in CH is covered


by their compulsory  accident insurance.


Not sure whether this is the case with


innternational orgs.  The REGA app is also able to locate you in an emergency.


My daughter has led lots of outings and decided to take the 


Swiss Alpine Club mountain leadership 


course just to be more aware of her responsibilities  .


Having passed it, she applied to be a mountainted leader 


with the CAS and is using her experience on her private outings.


 


One final point.  There are many outings in the mountains advertised on glocals


esp in winter led by clubs or individuals who have no understanding of avalanches....BEWARE


You relatives might bénéficie fromage settlement but you Will be in heaven or somewhere else


 


 

The text you are quoting:

My understanding is that in Swiss law


and French law the most experienced


member of a group is responsible in


the eyes of the law. So if there is an


accident the most experienced member


of the group is responsible because he


did not insist the outing be stopped. The


authorites view the law 'fairly' but in the case


of a death or serious injury, the family could take out a civil case


and go for the jugular and the case would be


jointly against the leader and the most experienced 


irrespective of the outcome, you have to think


of the costs which will be horrendous  


Just as an example, a couple of years ago


after the death of a participant on a mountain walk,


I was pulled aside by a relative and asked whether


the walk was beyond his capabilities - he had died of a heart attack  


I  am pretty sure that this correct but will check with a lawyer alpinist.


Just so you know I am a mountain leader with the CAS and


Geneverando and have insurance for official forays.  I also have  private insurance


for my private hikes.


The REGA Insurance is useful but anyone working in CH is covered


by their compulsory  accident insurance.


Not sure whether this is the case with


innternational orgs.  The REGA app is also able to locate you in an emergency.


My daughter has led lots of outings and decided to take the 


Swiss Alpine Club mountain leadership 


course just to be more aware of her responsibilities  .


Having passed it, she applied to be a mountainted leader 


with the CAS and is using her experience on her private outings.


 


One final point.  There are many outings in the mountains advertised on glocals


esp in winter led by clubs or individuals who have no understanding of avalanches....BEWARE


You relatives might bénéficie fromage settlement but you Will be in heaven or somewhere else


 


 


Paul E, Jul 20, 2017 @ 14:56
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Re: Hiking, Biking, Via Ferratta, other Activities, Disclaimers and Recourse
Post 2

echo112 installed - Thanks for the tip! Smile

The text you are quoting:

echo112 installed - Thanks for the tip! Smile


Eric S, Jul 21, 2017 @ 22:39
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Re: Hiking, Biking, Via Ferratta, other Activities, Disclaimers and Recourse
Post 3

I agree with the comments of Paul. It's finally a question of being reasonable and having an approach based on the fair common sense ("bon sens").


On one side, Glocals is a community of persons and the members should not start suits against each others for liability questions, but on the other hand the organizer of an event shall also take all necessary precautions for not creating a dangerous situation.


As an example, I know a true story of mountain hikers who passed a delicate pass with a lot of snow. The organizer asked the group to stay safe behind some rocks when he and his assistant would walk through the pass. Two participants did not wait and followed, provoking and avalanche (two persons died). A trial followed an the organizer was not held guilty, but this was only because he had taken all necessary precautions (full assessment of the situation, weather forecast, choice of the path, precaution related to the delicate piece to pass, etc).


The conclusion is in my view that we have to keep a certain common sense, both for the organizer and the participants.

The text you are quoting:

I agree with the comments of Paul. It's finally a question of being reasonable and having an approach based on the fair common sense ("bon sens").


On one side, Glocals is a community of persons and the members should not start suits against each others for liability questions, but on the other hand the organizer of an event shall also take all necessary precautions for not creating a dangerous situation.


As an example, I know a true story of mountain hikers who passed a delicate pass with a lot of snow. The organizer asked the group to stay safe behind some rocks when he and his assistant would walk through the pass. Two participants did not wait and followed, provoking and avalanche (two persons died). A trial followed an the organizer was not held guilty, but this was only because he had taken all necessary precautions (full assessment of the situation, weather forecast, choice of the path, precaution related to the delicate piece to pass, etc).


The conclusion is in my view that we have to keep a certain common sense, both for the organizer and the participants.


Per P, Aug 9, 2017 @ 12:46
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