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IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?

And again for the 3rd time it happened that for the re-opening on Friday 27th of February 2015 i was refused to enter the Nightclub Adagio in Zurich.


My first year in Switzerland i was refused in a weekend of November 2008. The reason was that the club was too crowded to allow more people inside. I was then alone.


The second time was during the 2012 UEFA European Championship. After the game i decided to enter the club with 2 other friends from Germany and Holland. All 3 of us were refused to enter the club because of our soccer outfit.


And again it happened that i was refused to enter Adagio. After it took an hour to reach Zurich by car and 30 minutes looking for a place to park, we finally reached the club at 21.30. it was the 3rd time i was not allowed to enter the nightclub. The reason this time was that I was not on the guestlist. After a long discussion with the guards, the club-manager Niels Clasen came outside to us and confirmed that we couldn’t enter because we are not on the guestlist.


In the newspaper ‘20 minutes’ on the 25th of February 2015 it was not indicated that for the re-opening only people on the guestlist were allowed to enter the club. Moreover, in front of the entrance was also not indicated that entering the nightclub is only for people on the questlist.
Based on my observation in a period of 7 years, I’m afraid to ask myself the question if my refusal to enter the Nightclub Adagio has something to do with the color of my skin.


On Friday, 27th of February 2015 i wanted to enter with my girlfriend and another male person, who are also black.
Based on what is mentioned above, I hope that the authorities will take this matter into consideration.


Kind regards,
Wilfred Richard

The text you are quoting:

And again for the 3rd time it happened that for the re-opening on Friday 27th of February 2015 i was refused to enter the Nightclub Adagio in Zurich.


My first year in Switzerland i was refused in a weekend of November 2008. The reason was that the club was too crowded to allow more people inside. I was then alone.


The second time was during the 2012 UEFA European Championship. After the game i decided to enter the club with 2 other friends from Germany and Holland. All 3 of us were refused to enter the club because of our soccer outfit.


And again it happened that i was refused to enter Adagio. After it took an hour to reach Zurich by car and 30 minutes looking for a place to park, we finally reached the club at 21.30. it was the 3rd time i was not allowed to enter the nightclub. The reason this time was that I was not on the guestlist. After a long discussion with the guards, the club-manager Niels Clasen came outside to us and confirmed that we couldn’t enter because we are not on the guestlist.


In the newspaper ‘20 minutes’ on the 25th of February 2015 it was not indicated that for the re-opening only people on the guestlist were allowed to enter the club. Moreover, in front of the entrance was also not indicated that entering the nightclub is only for people on the questlist.
Based on my observation in a period of 7 years, I’m afraid to ask myself the question if my refusal to enter the Nightclub Adagio has something to do with the color of my skin.


On Friday, 27th of February 2015 i wanted to enter with my girlfriend and another male person, who are also black.
Based on what is mentioned above, I hope that the authorities will take this matter into consideration.


Kind regards,
Wilfred Richard


Wilfred RFeb 28, 2015 @ 14:02
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Re: IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?
Post 1

Very sorry to hear about your experience. Unfortunately racism is a fact of life but we don't have to accept it. Firstly why not write to club owner reiterating your story. informing him that you will be making an official complaint to the relevant authorities/anti-racism organisations. Secondly, see what is his reaction is before taking things further.

The text you are quoting:

Very sorry to hear about your experience. Unfortunately racism is a fact of life but we don't have to accept it. Firstly why not write to club owner reiterating your story. informing him that you will be making an official complaint to the relevant authorities/anti-racism organisations. Secondly, see what is his reaction is before taking things further.


delseta9_, Mar 1, 2015 @ 15:28
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Post 2

dear wilfred,


not sure about the racism part...but if it makes you feel any better, ...


In Geneva, this sort of 'bar' thing happens all the time regardless of skin colour age or gender...


if it's not some ridiculous guest list excuse, it's some ridiculous 'membership' only excuse.


I never had any issues getting into any bars in any hip city in the world..until Geneva :-)


I remember when I first arrived here, some bars that were practically empty, would refuse to let me in, giving me the excuse that I wasn't on the guestlist nor did I have a 'membership' card.. 


Now you tell me who would ever be pretentious enough to refuse entry to a diva :-)


Have you ever tried getting into any bars in Verbier at any given time??? Good luck with that..


Look at the bright side...Adagio can't be that cool if they won't let you spend YOUR money in it...:-)


Who needs ADAGIO anyway right?


 

The text you are quoting:

dear wilfred,


not sure about the racism part...but if it makes you feel any better, ...


In Geneva, this sort of 'bar' thing happens all the time regardless of skin colour age or gender...


if it's not some ridiculous guest list excuse, it's some ridiculous 'membership' only excuse.


I never had any issues getting into any bars in any hip city in the world..until Geneva :-)


I remember when I first arrived here, some bars that were practically empty, would refuse to let me in, giving me the excuse that I wasn't on the guestlist nor did I have a 'membership' card.. 


Now you tell me who would ever be pretentious enough to refuse entry to a diva :-)


Have you ever tried getting into any bars in Verbier at any given time??? Good luck with that..


Look at the bright side...Adagio can't be that cool if they won't let you spend YOUR money in it...:-)


Who needs ADAGIO anyway right?


 


divagirl, Mar 1, 2015 @ 23:39
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Post 3

Hi Diva, thanks for your reply.


If you don`t mind i would like to reply it on my facebook page.


Cheers,


Wilfred


 


 

The text you are quoting:

Hi Diva, thanks for your reply.


If you don`t mind i would like to reply it on my facebook page.


Cheers,


Wilfred


 


 


Wilfred R, Mar 2, 2015 @ 08:31
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Post 4

Hi Diva, thanks for your reply.

If you don`t mind i would like to reply it on my facebook page.

Cheers,

Wilfred

 

 


Mar 2, 15 08:31

Hi Wilfred,


Please note that my answer to your post is meant to be on a glocals forum post only, not a copy paste on your FB page..  


Unless I misunderstood, I do not want anything of this to appear on anyone's FB page.


If you have anything else to say, you share it here on this forum post, ...not on your FB page (as far as my comments are concerned)


Based on your email to me, you plan on doing so, and I will then ask Nir to remove this post altogether.


thanks

The text you are quoting:

Hi Wilfred,


Please note that my answer to your post is meant to be on a glocals forum post only, not a copy paste on your FB page..  


Unless I misunderstood, I do not want anything of this to appear on anyone's FB page.


If you have anything else to say, you share it here on this forum post, ...not on your FB page (as far as my comments are concerned)


Based on your email to me, you plan on doing so, and I will then ask Nir to remove this post altogether.


thanks


divagirl, Mar 2, 2015 @ 09:03
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Re: IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?
Post 5

Please give your opinion:

 http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich/story/21550147

The text you are quoting:

Please give your opinion:

 http://www.20min.ch/schweiz/zuerich/story/21550147


Wilfred R, Mar 16, 2015 @ 08:43
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Re: IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?
Post 6

I suggest you look for a different place to party at!!!!

The text you are quoting:

I suggest you look for a different place to party at!!!!


V N, Mar 16, 2015 @ 16:00
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Post 7

All that fuss for a club?

The text you are quoting:

All that fuss for a club?


Marcy S, Mar 17, 2015 @ 11:44
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Re: IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?
Post 8

If you check the event at usgang.ch, there are at least two black men, one black woman and several asian women. This does not look like a KKK meeting. To be honest, I wouldn't want you in my club, and the colour of your skin is not the reason why.

The text you are quoting:

If you check the event at usgang.ch, there are at least two black men, one black woman and several asian women. This does not look like a KKK meeting. To be honest, I wouldn't want you in my club, and the colour of your skin is not the reason why.


Alan S, Mar 17, 2015 @ 15:23
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Re: IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?
Post 9

If you check the event at usgang.ch, there are at least two black men, one black woman and several asian women. This does not look like a KKK meeting. To be honest, I wouldn't want you in my club, and the colour of your skin is not the reason why.


Mar 17, 15 15:23

eeehhh, you mean... check here? The page with the photos from the re-opening of Adagio on February 27?


http://zuerich.usgang.ch/picture.php?page=0&n=660308


Thanks for bringing our attention to it. There are 10 pages of photos. I think everyone interested should look at them and make up their own mind.


 

The text you are quoting:

eeehhh, you mean... check here? The page with the photos from the re-opening of Adagio on February 27?


http://zuerich.usgang.ch/picture.php?page=0&n=660308


Thanks for bringing our attention to it. There are 10 pages of photos. I think everyone interested should look at them and make up their own mind.


 


JR M, Mar 17, 2015 @ 15:36
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Post 10








The text you are quoting:

JR M, Mar 17, 2015 @ 15:47
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Post 11
The text you are quoting:

JR M, Mar 17, 2015 @ 15:47
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Post 12






The text you are quoting:

JR M, Mar 17, 2015 @ 15:49
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Post 13

I suggest you look for a different place to party at!!!!


Mar 16, 15 16:00

I think that was what he was told at Adagio.


The question Wilfred is raising is why?


The title of the thread is framed as a question, and then he says:


"Based on my observation in a period of 7 years, I’m afraid to ask myself the question if my refusal to enter the Nightclub Adagio has something to do with the color of my skin."


If the answer were to be yes, is that acceptable? Should you just accept what "your place" is?


Should you not make a fuzz if you are told you should sit in the back of the bus? All that fuzz for a bus seat?

The text you are quoting:

I think that was what he was told at Adagio.


The question Wilfred is raising is why?


The title of the thread is framed as a question, and then he says:


"Based on my observation in a period of 7 years, I’m afraid to ask myself the question if my refusal to enter the Nightclub Adagio has something to do with the color of my skin."


If the answer were to be yes, is that acceptable? Should you just accept what "your place" is?


Should you not make a fuzz if you are told you should sit in the back of the bus? All that fuzz for a bus seat?


JR M, Mar 17, 2015 @ 15:59
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Post 14


Hi JR M,


Thanks for bringing this up. Really appreciated !!!


Cheers,


Wilfred

The text you are quoting:


Hi JR M,


Thanks for bringing this up. Really appreciated !!!


Cheers,


Wilfred


Wilfred R, Mar 17, 2015 @ 16:02
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Post 16

Why are you making generalisations, JR M? And you being from Mexico, do you really think that is a wise thing to do? Want me to list some pages of racism from Mexico? Would that make you more or less racist or your points more or less valid?

The text you are quoting:

Why are you making generalisations, JR M? And you being from Mexico, do you really think that is a wise thing to do? Want me to list some pages of racism from Mexico? Would that make you more or less racist or your points more or less valid?


Alan S, Mar 17, 2015 @ 16:25
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Post 17

Listen, everybody. This is not a statement on Zurich or even the Adagio club, but on an incident which impacted individuals who have had to sustain a whole life time of questioning of their humanity.


No one is born or genetically programmed to be prejudiced in any way, whether it is based on race, gender, ethnicity or religion. But we are raised in cultures which gradually, subtly inculcate beliefs, attitudes and behaviors. We may not be aware we harbor them within us. We don't see their manifestation in our behavior and when someone questions us, we get defensive. "Of course it is not prejudice! I am not racist ! I know that. I am certainly no KKK member."


It does not hurt to stop and reflect and question our own selves. If we believe the person raising the question is wrong, try to understand why they are raising it. It is hard to understand, without having lived through it, what it is like to grow up with images in the surrounding culture, that demean the traits that you posess; to face even the isolated challenge or insult in the playground, which in the background of the cultural images you see around you, make you question your self worth, even if, consciouslly, you refuse to do so. It unconsciously seeps in.


Then, even if it is one out of ten times, or one in a hundred times, when you are passed by in a job opportunity, or acceptance in a school, when a policeman questions you, treats you as a suspect, when people cross the street to not face you on the sidewalk at night, it all adds up.


You don't make a fuzz, you ignore it, you tell yourself it is their disease and you will not allow yourself to get infected. The more you do it, the more you find parts of the world and parts of life denied to you. Who cares about that night club anyway, right, the Adagio? I mean, it does not matter that you spent the time getting ready for what you thought would be a nice night out with a couple of friends after a hard week at work, and you drove for an hour to get there, talking, joking and took 30 minutes to find parking. It is just a night club, what is the fuzz, "look for a different place to party."


But, who was that man who denied you admission? Does he know what you do for a living, what your worth as a human being is, what conditions you had to overcome to become the accomplished, ethical professional you made yourself into? It is not the nightclub, it is the attitude, the engagement, and the fact that it is about something as stupid as "the place to party" makes it even worse. Can you understand that? It makes it worse. The more menial the circumstances, the more humiliating it is.


So, you go on with your life, ignore those attitudes, make the most of your time on this earth, resist being distracted. But then, you have a child. He or she is full of promise. He or she is precious, is gentle, intelligent, kind, playful and caring. Because you instilled those values in your child.


And then, he or she gets home from school and breaks out crying. And you learned what was done to him or her in the playground, and you have to ask yourself. Is it really OK? Was it just over whether or not she should play with the ball, and should he or she not just find other kids to play with? When and where does it stop? When do I make a stand, and around what?


So, you refuse to sit in the back of the bus, or you walk into the lunch counter, or tell the world how the woman at the store in Zurich treated you, you, who rose from extreme poverty, was sexually abused as a young woman and now, you, Oprah Winfrey, have become an inspiration for women of any race or color, but for that person you were just a black woman who certainly would not be able to buy an expensive purse. You, Oprah Winfrey. And Oprah made it clear that she was just bringing up the incident, it was not meant as a comment on Switzerland as some took it.


Hey, Oprah, what is the fuzz? Over a purse? Why don't you just find another store to shop at?


And, oh yes, Alan does not want you in his club, and it does not have to do with your skin color. It has to do with your behavior, you see. You are not supposed to behave like that. Because, you see, I don't know you, and I was not at the shop in Zurich or at Adagio, to really know, but I know you. Of course, I know you and of course I can judge you. Why?  What? What is it that I know about you, that allows me to judge you? Do I have to spell it out for you? In black and white?

The text you are quoting:

Listen, everybody. This is not a statement on Zurich or even the Adagio club, but on an incident which impacted individuals who have had to sustain a whole life time of questioning of their humanity.


No one is born or genetically programmed to be prejudiced in any way, whether it is based on race, gender, ethnicity or religion. But we are raised in cultures which gradually, subtly inculcate beliefs, attitudes and behaviors. We may not be aware we harbor them within us. We don't see their manifestation in our behavior and when someone questions us, we get defensive. "Of course it is not prejudice! I am not racist ! I know that. I am certainly no KKK member."


It does not hurt to stop and reflect and question our own selves. If we believe the person raising the question is wrong, try to understand why they are raising it. It is hard to understand, without having lived through it, what it is like to grow up with images in the surrounding culture, that demean the traits that you posess; to face even the isolated challenge or insult in the playground, which in the background of the cultural images you see around you, make you question your self worth, even if, consciouslly, you refuse to do so. It unconsciously seeps in.


Then, even if it is one out of ten times, or one in a hundred times, when you are passed by in a job opportunity, or acceptance in a school, when a policeman questions you, treats you as a suspect, when people cross the street to not face you on the sidewalk at night, it all adds up.


You don't make a fuzz, you ignore it, you tell yourself it is their disease and you will not allow yourself to get infected. The more you do it, the more you find parts of the world and parts of life denied to you. Who cares about that night club anyway, right, the Adagio? I mean, it does not matter that you spent the time getting ready for what you thought would be a nice night out with a couple of friends after a hard week at work, and you drove for an hour to get there, talking, joking and took 30 minutes to find parking. It is just a night club, what is the fuzz, "look for a different place to party."


But, who was that man who denied you admission? Does he know what you do for a living, what your worth as a human being is, what conditions you had to overcome to become the accomplished, ethical professional you made yourself into? It is not the nightclub, it is the attitude, the engagement, and the fact that it is about something as stupid as "the place to party" makes it even worse. Can you understand that? It makes it worse. The more menial the circumstances, the more humiliating it is.


So, you go on with your life, ignore those attitudes, make the most of your time on this earth, resist being distracted. But then, you have a child. He or she is full of promise. He or she is precious, is gentle, intelligent, kind, playful and caring. Because you instilled those values in your child.


And then, he or she gets home from school and breaks out crying. And you learned what was done to him or her in the playground, and you have to ask yourself. Is it really OK? Was it just over whether or not she should play with the ball, and should he or she not just find other kids to play with? When and where does it stop? When do I make a stand, and around what?


So, you refuse to sit in the back of the bus, or you walk into the lunch counter, or tell the world how the woman at the store in Zurich treated you, you, who rose from extreme poverty, was sexually abused as a young woman and now, you, Oprah Winfrey, have become an inspiration for women of any race or color, but for that person you were just a black woman who certainly would not be able to buy an expensive purse. You, Oprah Winfrey. And Oprah made it clear that she was just bringing up the incident, it was not meant as a comment on Switzerland as some took it.


Hey, Oprah, what is the fuzz? Over a purse? Why don't you just find another store to shop at?


And, oh yes, Alan does not want you in his club, and it does not have to do with your skin color. It has to do with your behavior, you see. You are not supposed to behave like that. Because, you see, I don't know you, and I was not at the shop in Zurich or at Adagio, to really know, but I know you. Of course, I know you and of course I can judge you. Why?  What? What is it that I know about you, that allows me to judge you? Do I have to spell it out for you? In black and white?


JR M, Mar 17, 2015 @ 16:43
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Post 18

Why are you making generalisations, JR M? And you being from Mexico, do you really think that is a wise thing to do? Want me to list some pages of racism from Mexico? Would that make you more or less racist or your points more or less valid?


Mar 17, 15 16:25

Well, there you go. Not even worth replying.


I mean, what do you know about me to know what is wise for me to do or say?


You are just exposing yourself: you judge people on the basis of one thing.

The text you are quoting:

Well, there you go. Not even worth replying.


I mean, what do you know about me to know what is wise for me to do or say?


You are just exposing yourself: you judge people on the basis of one thing.


JR M, Mar 17, 2015 @ 16:45
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Post 19

JR M: Do I have to spell it out for you? In black and white?


Yes, please do.

The text you are quoting:

JR M: Do I have to spell it out for you? In black and white?


Yes, please do.


Alan S, Mar 17, 2015 @ 16:57
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Post 20

Oh, I think everyone got it.

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Oh, I think everyone got it.


JR M, Mar 17, 2015 @ 17:06
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Post 21

Seven pictures say more than a thousand words. Is that why you are so upset?

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Seven pictures say more than a thousand words. Is that why you are so upset?


JR M, Mar 17, 2015 @ 17:09
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Post 22

JR..not sure you followed the Oprah Winfrey case in zurich..


Oprah ended up apologizing for the incident in Zurich. .saying it had been blown out of proportion...


But then again...If she didn't want it to be blown out of proportion. .then why go on Larry King live and pull out the racism card after the fact..... instead of confronting the shop owner or the assistant straight on..


Afterall, the shop owner was also at Tina Turner's wedding. ..just saying....


As a side story, I remember when I was 20kg heavier than today. .. entering a Paris boutique for clothes... shopping for a present for my friend. ..upon entering the shop I got the stare up and down look. .I smiled and greeted the salesgirl (BTW am fluent in French) and was told right away that there was nothing in the store that would fit me....LOL. ..I looked straight at her and told her that I realized nothing would fit me in there. . but that I was shopping for a birthday present..


Should I have gone on Larry King live instead of confronting the salesgirl??


I call that rude and insensitive. ..
Get up... stand up. ..


I think we could all use some dose of cultural sensitivity and emotional intelligence. .. 


Oprah included. .. :-)

The text you are quoting:

JR..not sure you followed the Oprah Winfrey case in zurich..


Oprah ended up apologizing for the incident in Zurich. .saying it had been blown out of proportion...


But then again...If she didn't want it to be blown out of proportion. .then why go on Larry King live and pull out the racism card after the fact..... instead of confronting the shop owner or the assistant straight on..


Afterall, the shop owner was also at Tina Turner's wedding. ..just saying....


As a side story, I remember when I was 20kg heavier than today. .. entering a Paris boutique for clothes... shopping for a present for my friend. ..upon entering the shop I got the stare up and down look. .I smiled and greeted the salesgirl (BTW am fluent in French) and was told right away that there was nothing in the store that would fit me....LOL. ..I looked straight at her and told her that I realized nothing would fit me in there. . but that I was shopping for a birthday present..


Should I have gone on Larry King live instead of confronting the salesgirl??


I call that rude and insensitive. ..
Get up... stand up. ..


I think we could all use some dose of cultural sensitivity and emotional intelligence. .. 


Oprah included. .. :-)


divagirl, Mar 17, 2015 @ 19:26
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Post 23

Divagirl, as a scientist, I am trained to examine the facts carefully and then come to conclusions. I find it interesting how some people make up their minds  first and then look for confirmation. I am even more amazed to see that they look exactly where there isn't any.


Oprah did not "go to Larry King." "Larry King live" has been off the air since December 2010. The incident took place 2013.


She was being interviewed in "Entertainment Tonight" in August 2013 regarding her role in the film "The Butler", which deals with....hmm I forget...when she was asked about  experiencing racism. She used the incident at "a shop" she decided not to mention by name, but she did mention it was while visiting Zurich. Her point was that in a place where she was not well known, all that person saw was a black woman and jumped to concusions. By her account, she let it go, until that ET interview.


Watch the interview in question here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03e51Ejj40g


If any of you are seriously interested, just watch the damn thing and then make up your mind. Watch it and decide if it was "rude an insensitive."


She was just trying to explain the subtle ways racism sometimes takes. But many news outlets made something else of the story and cast aspersions on Switzerland, found out which store it was and who was involved. Oprah had not offered details because for her it was not personal.


Did she later apologize? Seeing the uproar that some media coverage created, she apologized for mentioning Switzerland. She felt that, first, it had been taken out of proportion when articles made generalizations about Switzerland from that incident and the Swiss Tourism office apologized to her.


Read what she actually said:


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/13/showbiz/oprah-winfrey-racism-switzerland/


"I think that incident in Switzerland was just an incident in Switzerland. I'm really sorry that it got blown up," she said. "I purposely did not mention the name of the store. I'm sorry that I said it was Switzerland."


But she did not retract the facts on the incident nor did she change her characterization of it. Then the next day, given the headlines used by some news outlets claiming she had apologized, she further clarified:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2392778/Oprah-Winfrey-insists-WAS-victim-racism-Swiss-store-nearly-called-Jennifer-Aniston-tell-her.html


"She [Oprah] acknowledges the apologies of the owner Trudie Goetz and the anonymous saleslady but added: 'But I don't know whether the apology brings something. Discrimination is there, anywhere around the world, every day. As I said, I did not want to bring the whole of Switzerland into disrepute."



'So I didn't want to indict Switzerland. It was a single incident. An incident that people of black or brown color experience daily.


In any event, my friend, if you think you have something interesting to say to Larry King, I can arrange for a breakfast meeting at his favorite hangout, Canter's deli in Fairfax.He still shows up regularly.
 
Perhaps you can share with him how gratifying it is to know that you are so superior to Oprah when it comes to "cultural sensitivity and emotional intelligence."
The text you are quoting:

Divagirl, as a scientist, I am trained to examine the facts carefully and then come to conclusions. I find it interesting how some people make up their minds  first and then look for confirmation. I am even more amazed to see that they look exactly where there isn't any.


Oprah did not "go to Larry King." "Larry King live" has been off the air since December 2010. The incident took place 2013.


She was being interviewed in "Entertainment Tonight" in August 2013 regarding her role in the film "The Butler", which deals with....hmm I forget...when she was asked about  experiencing racism. She used the incident at "a shop" she decided not to mention by name, but she did mention it was while visiting Zurich. Her point was that in a place where she was not well known, all that person saw was a black woman and jumped to concusions. By her account, she let it go, until that ET interview.


Watch the interview in question here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03e51Ejj40g


If any of you are seriously interested, just watch the damn thing and then make up your mind. Watch it and decide if it was "rude an insensitive."


She was just trying to explain the subtle ways racism sometimes takes. But many news outlets made something else of the story and cast aspersions on Switzerland, found out which store it was and who was involved. Oprah had not offered details because for her it was not personal.


Did she later apologize? Seeing the uproar that some media coverage created, she apologized for mentioning Switzerland. She felt that, first, it had been taken out of proportion when articles made generalizations about Switzerland from that incident and the Swiss Tourism office apologized to her.


Read what she actually said:


http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/13/showbiz/oprah-winfrey-racism-switzerland/


"I think that incident in Switzerland was just an incident in Switzerland. I'm really sorry that it got blown up," she said. "I purposely did not mention the name of the store. I'm sorry that I said it was Switzerland."


But she did not retract the facts on the incident nor did she change her characterization of it. Then the next day, given the headlines used by some news outlets claiming she had apologized, she further clarified:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2392778/Oprah-Winfrey-insists-WAS-victim-racism-Swiss-store-nearly-called-Jennifer-Aniston-tell-her.html


"She [Oprah] acknowledges the apologies of the owner Trudie Goetz and the anonymous saleslady but added: 'But I don't know whether the apology brings something. Discrimination is there, anywhere around the world, every day. As I said, I did not want to bring the whole of Switzerland into disrepute."



'So I didn't want to indict Switzerland. It was a single incident. An incident that people of black or brown color experience daily.


In any event, my friend, if you think you have something interesting to say to Larry King, I can arrange for a breakfast meeting at his favorite hangout, Canter's deli in Fairfax.He still shows up regularly.
 
Perhaps you can share with him how gratifying it is to know that you are so superior to Oprah when it comes to "cultural sensitivity and emotional intelligence."
JR M, Mar 17, 2015 @ 21:30
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Re: IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?
Post 24

she first discussed with Larry King....


i'm also a trained scientist..but unlike you, I don't need to highlight this with every post I write... I also dont suffer from the over achiever syndrome you seem to have...


it's easy to just gather news from the internet and copy and paste to make a point.while you clearly just keep missing the point...


Enjoy the interview on Larry King Now!  P.S. Take note of the interview date :-)


https://youtu.be/tIuHg0_kg3c


 


 

The text you are quoting:

she first discussed with Larry King....


i'm also a trained scientist..but unlike you, I don't need to highlight this with every post I write... I also dont suffer from the over achiever syndrome you seem to have...


it's easy to just gather news from the internet and copy and paste to make a point.while you clearly just keep missing the point...


Enjoy the interview on Larry King Now!  P.S. Take note of the interview date :-)


https://youtu.be/tIuHg0_kg3c


 


 


divagirl, Mar 18, 2015 @ 01:45
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Re: IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?
Post 25

@divagirl well spotted, I also found his claims, that he is a scientist a bit suprising. Ken Ham also claims to be a scientist, so maybe JR M is a creation scientist (or creatard) like Ken Ham.


Plus he knows Larry King. Wow, I am impressed ...... not.


Looking at his shoddy way of arguing, I hope JR M works in social studies, where his "research" does little harm to society...


Next, JR M will check out the pictures of say the Glocals Halloween Party and claim, that Glocals is racist, because most of the people there are white. He didn't have the cochones to call me racist, but after almost 400 events I organised here and friends made from every colour and creed, I doubt he could bring any evidence for his claims, "scientist"? You decide...

The text you are quoting:

@divagirl well spotted, I also found his claims, that he is a scientist a bit suprising. Ken Ham also claims to be a scientist, so maybe JR M is a creation scientist (or creatard) like Ken Ham.


Plus he knows Larry King. Wow, I am impressed ...... not.


Looking at his shoddy way of arguing, I hope JR M works in social studies, where his "research" does little harm to society...


Next, JR M will check out the pictures of say the Glocals Halloween Party and claim, that Glocals is racist, because most of the people there are white. He didn't have the cochones to call me racist, but after almost 400 events I organised here and friends made from every colour and creed, I doubt he could bring any evidence for his claims, "scientist"? You decide...


Alan S, Mar 18, 2015 @ 09:38
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Post 26

Ok it seems like the owner of this nightclub is not willing to bend backwards  slightly, however I'm from the UK guess we're more cosmopolitan the ZH is though not withstanding I have socialised alot in ZH and seems ok :) and I've not encountered any road block from any night spot. I'll suggest spend your money elsewhere and that does It . :)

The text you are quoting:

Ok it seems like the owner of this nightclub is not willing to bend backwards  slightly, however I'm from the UK guess we're more cosmopolitan the ZH is though not withstanding I have socialised alot in ZH and seems ok :) and I've not encountered any road block from any night spot. I'll suggest spend your money elsewhere and that does It . :)


Mo I, Mar 18, 2015 @ 09:52
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Post 27

" I also found his claims, that he is a scientist a bit suprising." - Alan S.


And just why exactly is that the case?


What is it that you know about me? You are making a lot of assumptions, aren't you? That is call pre-judging, the derivative noun of that verb being .... ( I leave it to you as homework).


Sorry to say, Alan, but I read all your posts, and that seems to be the common theme in all of them, from the very first one. Just what is that big chip you are carrying on your shoulder? Why are you so sensitive about this?


And by the way, why is it that some of you do not seem interested in discussing the substance of the question raised by this thread, trying to share your perspective in the hope of touching one or two people, enlightening, and even, god forbid, maybe even learning something, but prefer to engage in personal disqualification?  I warned Wilfred through PM that would be the case when he first started the thread. In any event, I will leave you to  play alone in the gutter.


Divagirl, you were right. I watched the interview and Oprah was indeed interviewed by Larry in his current show in Ora.tv, a digital (not broadcast or channel) TV outlet financed by Carlos Slim. That may be why her comments were not picked up until her interview by Entertainment Tonight. My apologies for that mistake. Thanks for providing the link.


But again, in the spirit I believe Wilfred intended, which is to make people think about an important issue, having watched that interview, I still come to the same conclusion about her behavior, her demeanor, and the substance of what she tried to convey. The discussion in both cases was in the context of her promoting the movie "The Butler" which deals with the subject of racism. Inevitably, the interviewers asked her whether she had had personal experiences with it.  So, in case anyone is still not clear about it,  she did not "go" to any media outlet right after the incident in Zurich and tried to expose it, nor did she mention the store by name. She explained why in the ET interview.


Those of us who have worked on the issue with the intent of addressing it, know that it is useful to provide concrete examples, but it is of littie use to make it personal. It is not even worth branding people, but it is better to focus on the behavior (get it, Alan?). Let the person define her or himself, and hopefully, modify the behavior. If not, their response usually exposes them, and at least that is accomplished.


But, coming back to Oprah, someone (the BBC claimed it was them) tracked the store and the individuals involved and then the story got legs and the discussion of the issue was put aside, and the focus became the individuals and, even Switzerland. Maybe that was because of recent referenda and the campaigns of the People's Party, but, still, it is not useful to make generalizations about a whole country.  No one who is concerned about prejudice (that is a clue to help you with your homework, Alan) seeks to turn the coin around and promote prejudice of a different kind. What you want to do is to point out the behavior, the incidents, not smear and prejudge a country, a group of people or even an individual.


No one can know what was really in the mind of the person at the door at Adagio, or of the club owner or the store attendant in Zurich. But when you raise questions as Wilfred did or offer your interpretations based on years of experience, as Oprah did,  they always have the opportunity to respond and clarify if there was no ill intent. The public conversation is advanced. We take small steps in overcoming a negative legacy of the past. If there was ill intent, it becomes evident in the way they respond.


I also think that whatever their intent is, people reveal a lot about themselves and their inner thoughts in the way they respond to these discussions, and I think it is evident in this thread.


What is clear, and I thank Wilfred for reminding me, is that if you remain silent, nothing ever changes.


 


 

The text you are quoting:

" I also found his claims, that he is a scientist a bit suprising." - Alan S.


And just why exactly is that the case?


What is it that you know about me? You are making a lot of assumptions, aren't you? That is call pre-judging, the derivative noun of that verb being .... ( I leave it to you as homework).


Sorry to say, Alan, but I read all your posts, and that seems to be the common theme in all of them, from the very first one. Just what is that big chip you are carrying on your shoulder? Why are you so sensitive about this?


And by the way, why is it that some of you do not seem interested in discussing the substance of the question raised by this thread, trying to share your perspective in the hope of touching one or two people, enlightening, and even, god forbid, maybe even learning something, but prefer to engage in personal disqualification?  I warned Wilfred through PM that would be the case when he first started the thread. In any event, I will leave you to  play alone in the gutter.


Divagirl, you were right. I watched the interview and Oprah was indeed interviewed by Larry in his current show in Ora.tv, a digital (not broadcast or channel) TV outlet financed by Carlos Slim. That may be why her comments were not picked up until her interview by Entertainment Tonight. My apologies for that mistake. Thanks for providing the link.


But again, in the spirit I believe Wilfred intended, which is to make people think about an important issue, having watched that interview, I still come to the same conclusion about her behavior, her demeanor, and the substance of what she tried to convey. The discussion in both cases was in the context of her promoting the movie "The Butler" which deals with the subject of racism. Inevitably, the interviewers asked her whether she had had personal experiences with it.  So, in case anyone is still not clear about it,  she did not "go" to any media outlet right after the incident in Zurich and tried to expose it, nor did she mention the store by name. She explained why in the ET interview.


Those of us who have worked on the issue with the intent of addressing it, know that it is useful to provide concrete examples, but it is of littie use to make it personal. It is not even worth branding people, but it is better to focus on the behavior (get it, Alan?). Let the person define her or himself, and hopefully, modify the behavior. If not, their response usually exposes them, and at least that is accomplished.


But, coming back to Oprah, someone (the BBC claimed it was them) tracked the store and the individuals involved and then the story got legs and the discussion of the issue was put aside, and the focus became the individuals and, even Switzerland. Maybe that was because of recent referenda and the campaigns of the People's Party, but, still, it is not useful to make generalizations about a whole country.  No one who is concerned about prejudice (that is a clue to help you with your homework, Alan) seeks to turn the coin around and promote prejudice of a different kind. What you want to do is to point out the behavior, the incidents, not smear and prejudge a country, a group of people or even an individual.


No one can know what was really in the mind of the person at the door at Adagio, or of the club owner or the store attendant in Zurich. But when you raise questions as Wilfred did or offer your interpretations based on years of experience, as Oprah did,  they always have the opportunity to respond and clarify if there was no ill intent. The public conversation is advanced. We take small steps in overcoming a negative legacy of the past. If there was ill intent, it becomes evident in the way they respond.


I also think that whatever their intent is, people reveal a lot about themselves and their inner thoughts in the way they respond to these discussions, and I think it is evident in this thread.


What is clear, and I thank Wilfred for reminding me, is that if you remain silent, nothing ever changes.


 


 


JR M, Mar 18, 2015 @ 12:33
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Re: IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?
Post 28

That's a lot of words ...


Wilfred? Perhaps you should be the one writing....as it seems you were quick enough to shout only to be the one remaining silent...


I'm going for 1000 this time :-) :-) :-)


Be kind ..rewind.. unwind


 

The text you are quoting:

That's a lot of words ...


Wilfred? Perhaps you should be the one writing....as it seems you were quick enough to shout only to be the one remaining silent...


I'm going for 1000 this time :-) :-) :-)


Be kind ..rewind.. unwind


 


divagirl, Mar 18, 2015 @ 16:02
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Re: IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?
Post 29

" I also found his claims, that he is a scientist a bit suprising." - Alan S.

And just why exactly is that the case?

What is it that you know about me? You are making a lot of assumptions, aren't you? That is call pre-judging, the derivative noun of that verb being .... ( I leave it to you as homework).

Sorry to say, Alan, but I read all your posts, and that seems to be the common theme in all of them, from the very first one. Just what is that big chip you are carrying on your shoulder? Why are you so sensitive about this?

And by the way, why is it that some of you do not seem interested in discussing the substance of the question raised by this thread, trying to share your perspective in the hope of touching one or two people, enlightening, and even, god forbid, maybe even learning something, but prefer to engage in personal disqualification?  I warned Wilfred through PM that would be the case when he first started the thread. In any event, I will leave you to  play alone in the gutter.

Divagirl, you were right. I watched the interview and Oprah was indeed interviewed by Larry in his current show in Ora.tv, a digital (not broadcast or channel) TV outlet financed by Carlos Slim. That may be why her comments were not picked up until her interview by Entertainment Tonight. My apologies for that mistake. Thanks for providing the link.

But again, in the spirit I believe Wilfred intended, which is to make people think about an important issue, having watched that interview, I still come to the same conclusion about her behavior, her demeanor, and the substance of what she tried to convey. The discussion in both cases was in the context of her promoting the movie "The Butler" which deals with the subject of racism. Inevitably, the interviewers asked her whether she had had personal experiences with it.  So, in case anyone is still not clear about it,  she did not "go" to any media outlet right after the incident in Zurich and tried to expose it, nor did she mention the store by name. She explained why in the ET interview.

Those of us who have worked on the issue with the intent of addressing it, know that it is useful to provide concrete examples, but it is of littie use to make it personal. It is not even worth branding people, but it is better to focus on the behavior (get it, Alan?). Let the person define her or himself, and hopefully, modify the behavior. If not, their response usually exposes them, and at least that is accomplished.

But, coming back to Oprah, someone (the BBC claimed it was them) tracked the store and the individuals involved and then the story got legs and the discussion of the issue was put aside, and the focus became the individuals and, even Switzerland. Maybe that was because of recent referenda and the campaigns of the People's Party, but, still, it is not useful to make generalizations about a whole country.  No one who is concerned about prejudice (that is a clue to help you with your homework, Alan) seeks to turn the coin around and promote prejudice of a different kind. What you want to do is to point out the behavior, the incidents, not smear and prejudge a country, a group of people or even an individual.

No one can know what was really in the mind of the person at the door at Adagio, or of the club owner or the store attendant in Zurich. But when you raise questions as Wilfred did or offer your interpretations based on years of experience, as Oprah did,  they always have the opportunity to respond and clarify if there was no ill intent. The public conversation is advanced. We take small steps in overcoming a negative legacy of the past. If there was ill intent, it becomes evident in the way they respond.

I also think that whatever their intent is, people reveal a lot about themselves and their inner thoughts in the way they respond to these discussions, and I think it is evident in this thread.

What is clear, and I thank Wilfred for reminding me, is that if you remain silent, nothing ever changes.

 

 


Mar 18, 15 12:33

I’m no scientist but I am certainly not in any doub tthat, whatever your intent is (or has been) you have certainly revealed a lot about yourself in the way you have responded to several contributors to this thread.


Yours, in awe, R.

The text you are quoting:

I’m no scientist but I am certainly not in any doub tthat, whatever your intent is (or has been) you have certainly revealed a lot about yourself in the way you have responded to several contributors to this thread.


Yours, in awe, R.


Ritchie, Mar 18, 2015 @ 18:23
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Re: IS ADAGIO IN ZURICH A RACIST NIGHTCLUB?
Post 30

JRM you make a few very valid points. While i am not a scientist or a word smith (You are very good) all i am trying to understand is why one would insist on going to the same place that has denied entry to this potential customer for over seven years. Just an observation from my side clubs have dress code etc...which was not clarified. But any ways i hope Wilfred will for the sake of BABY JESUS not try to go there again.Laughing


On another side note i feel really priviliged to be part of an online post with so many scientist (Intelectual company craving)!!!! No pun intendedSurprised


 

The text you are quoting:

JRM you make a few very valid points. While i am not a scientist or a word smith (You are very good) all i am trying to understand is why one would insist on going to the same place that has denied entry to this potential customer for over seven years. Just an observation from my side clubs have dress code etc...which was not clarified. But any ways i hope Wilfred will for the sake of BABY JESUS not try to go there again.Laughing


On another side note i feel really priviliged to be part of an online post with so many scientist (Intelectual company craving)!!!! No pun intendedSurprised


 


V N, Mar 18, 2015 @ 18:38
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