You just made two mistakes and you fall in the trap.  Things are not just that in this town. It couild happen to you anywhere to touch the "nice guy".

Frank, can you be more specific? What mistakes? How should I have handled it differently? Qu'est-ce que j'ai fait faux!?

I am "listening" in... Just to know everything, did you sign anything at the place or what happened exactly?

Who sent you the bill, was it the guy or his insurance? If you are insured, does your insurance not cover it?

In Denmark normally you would report the accident to your insurance and the two insurance agencies would figure it out, but you would have to accept the blame offcourse...

I had almost the same experience when this really rude guy called the Police on me since i had 'allegedly' hit his porsche in the parking lot. The police for some reason blindly took his side and were kind of abusive towards me... (they are not very polite with the outsiders). 

However, in the accident report i clearly wrote that I did not recall hitting his car ever and also that the damage on his car was very minor and let my insurance company deal with his. I dont think i would end up paying anything in the end. 

Do you remember what you wrote in the accident report? Normally the extent of damage is mentioned on it which can help the insurance company make an assessment of the type of cost involved.  

I would suggest that you ring up your insurance company and explain the situation to them. They should see this kind of thing happening all the time and should be able to help you out.

Bumper replacement for just some minor scratches sound absurd.

I thought the wounded party (!) was supposed to get an estimate for the repair which your insurance co. then has to agree to before the repair is done.  

Makes you think it would be useful to always carry a small camera with you ... : )

@all: I have a long-term rental from Patrick Location, so I don't know the details about their insurance. But, it seems they have a 2000 CHF deductible. Anything less than 2000, I pay.

@frank: can you elaborate, please? I'd really like to know

@caroline: we filled in the accident report in which I very clearly wrote that 1) we were stopped, 2) I bumped his car after traveling about 5 km/h and from a distance of only 1-3 meters, 3) only paint damage, and 4) drew a picture indicating it all. And, yes, we both signed it. I thought that was required, no?

@yuneeb: considering the above, I'm not really sure whom to call. Plus, it's already been paid, eh? Unless someone thinks I could get some (?) money back for an over priced claim.

@mozambique: i always have a small camera with me, my phone. But, having an accident is not something one practices how to react. I was annoyed with myself, wondering what the costs would be, late for a client, holding up traffic, etc. and so i neglected to take a photo. <sigh>

Hi,

You probably have to ask for an advice. For example at the FRC (Fédération Romande des Consommateurs). If there is a computer meeting on Monday I will be there and I will give you more information. There also is "La permanence des avocats" which rate is cheap (I think CHF 60.- for a meeting).

If there was any paint damage on his bumper, a new spray at a reputable shop will easy come to 1000chf just for that job. Often "fender bender" damage is only skin deep, but occasionally there is some damage "inside" as well, parts you can't see. Sometimes the shops will perform geometry tests to ensure that no structural damage was done, and all those tests basically take man hours.

Then again, if the bumper also had any cracks, it might have had to be replaced and Mercedes parts are not exactly cheap.

Unfortunately, I've seen similar quotes for simple bumper jobs on the high end German vehicles and sounds to me like it's just best to pay IF your insurance hasn't been alerted and you wish to keep your bonus intact.

well... good luck with whatever you decide to do next.

I have just had a very similar experience with a Jean lain long term rental. Except my bill was 1600 Euros (exactly the same as the excess.. what a coincidence).

However if you paid for your car with a gold or platinum (or other 'premium' credit card)the excess will be covered by the credit card. You'll need to phone them to find out how to claim it back...

Regarding paying the bill yourself, it might depend on the insurance contract itself, as very often  you'll  have "protection du bonus", which means your bonus is protected for 1 accident a year (I guess it depends on the way your insurer present it to you, I nearly never offer a car insurance without it).

Keep in mind however as this "1 accident a year" is for a civil year, january-december, and we're only in March.

Rémy

1400 frs for a bumper is not expensive.  Someone bumped into my rear bumper recently (similar low speed) and his insurance had to pay more than 3000frs (I drive a Porsche - so half that price for a Mercedes seems correct to me). Btw, I was present when my garage called the insurance of the other party and they didn't complain - so these seems standard prices. Welcome to Switzerland.

I asked for a quote a month or so ago to respray a bumper which had some paint scratches on it - the garage basically laughed and said they don't bother respraying any more these days but simply replace the bumper.  The cost was around 1400 francs so sadly i think your experience is in line.  As Didier said, welcome to Swissyland.

I think it all depends on whether it was the insurance company that paid for it, then they would have contacted your insurance company (or the company resposable for insuring the car) So then the bill would have come from your insurance company.

If the guy went ahead and did it without going through the insurance company then I wouldn't pay anything it's his fault for not waiting for the insurance company to sort it.

The Swiss system works both ways, if it hasn't been done through the proper channels then it's tough for the guy, you don't owe him anything.

If you've already paid the bill yourself then I'm afraid you've lost your money.

I had a similar experience 7 years ago, someone hit my brand new Mercedes (1 week only) it was just a little hole in the bumper, maybe with and old car I would just spray some paint, but been just a brand new one I took it to the Mercedes garage and the other guy insurance payed about 1200 Chf, it was 7 year ago so I think now it is a litte bit more expensive.

I think it is a normal price for this kind of accident, if the bumper is only scrashed or completely demolished the price will be the same, of course if not structural damage occurs.

And as Didier says, welcome to "Expensiveland".  :-(

not just Switzerland, i'd say, although i'm sure Geneva proximity might inflate prices in nearby France... my car was in an accident (it was parked, i wasn't in it, only there to see the damage post-accident and spend a nice freezing hour with the police officers that made sure i was able to drive off again) and to replace both bumpers, the quote was nearly 4000 euros. it's just a Nissan, so as others have mentioned, what you were quoted was presumably about right.

So it seems CHF 1400 might be the real price the guy paid. But does anyone know what the process is in CH for minor accidents like this one, especially where there's damage to the other guy's car?

It seems that in this case the other guy just sent Zonker an invoice...Does Zonker really have to pay it?

Remy: I'm counting on your knowledge, you know EVRYTHING about insurance...(-:

Nir

How it's normally supposed to happen:

2 people have an accident - 1 or both parties see that their car is damaged, they can decide on 2 things - work it out between themselves or submit the accident to their relative insurance companies.

They then fill out the constat international d'accident (a blue form in 4 parts) explaining what happened and what areas of the vehicule(s) were damaged. Part 1 is to be sent to the person responsable for the accident insurance comapny, part 2 to the victim's insurance company, part 3 is for the victim. part 4 is for the person responsable for the accident.

The insurance companies will then contact each other, each will then send out an investigator to assess the damage - repairs or scrapping of the vehicles will be made. The company insuring the person responsable for the insurance will pay the bill according to the insurance cover, and then send a bill for relative costs and expenses to the person responsable for the accident.

The vicitm under no circumstances is to repair the car themselves as it has been submitted to the insurance companies, if the victim does this the insurance companies will refuse to get involved and the victim will be out of pocket. In this situation the person responsable for the accident has no obligation to the victim.

So zonker, if you filled out the appropriate forms and the guy repaired his car himself and you had not agreed to sort it out on the friendly it's tough luck for him, if you had filled out an accident decleration and he didn't submit it - tough luck to him.

You don't owe him ANYTHING

Simon, 

Thanks mate. Where does one get this accident-report form, any clue?

Nir

The accident report form is carried in your car Nir. It's a blue coloured form that the insurance companies give you when you take out your poicy and normally each year the send you a few more to keep in your car. When you have an accident usually you would fill it in with the other party and then submit it to your insurance  company. It has space for a description, picture etc as well as the signitures of the parties involved. Means that all the details are recored at the time of the accident when things are clear in both minds.

Hope this is helpful :)

Kirsty 

Kirsty:

Thanks mate. 

All I ever got from my car insurance agent were bills so far...(-:

I just emailed the guy asking him to send me these folks. Let's hope I never need em...

Thanks for the info!

Nir

No worries Nir.....hope you get one ok :-)

Will share my knowledge on the issue really soon too. Just a guy bumped my car a little bit and it looks like the bumber needs to be replaced. 

And awfull prizes. I really hope the guy won't end up paying a lot because he was so nice. :(

With premium cars, (Porsche, Merc, BMW and upwards) nowadays the bumpers hold the park distance control sensors... these can be put out by a simple fender bender...my cayenne had one made faulty by a neighbours kids playing football...easliy done.

The Bumper plus PDC is expensive (1400++) and here I'm guessing people like their cars pristeen, so even a paint scratch or dent would warrant a replacement at the cost of the guilty party.

Sorry mate, but it looks to me that you paid the right price.  

What happens when the ashtray is full? Do they replace the car? ;-)

yep... thats when you see porsche drivers braking hard for orange lights and not speeding up :-))

i have an adress in France just close to the border in pays de gex,

it is a 'carrosserie' making small repairs at reasonnables prices, as soon as the

two parts are not involved in a formal insurance agreement.

Let me know

We are new to Geneva and had no idea what to do when we had a small car accident the other night.  There was a scratch on my car, which we don't intend to claim with insurance.  The other car was dented slightly.  The constat international d'accident form was not completed by us or the other driver, no police involved, we swapped contact details and both drove off into the rain.  

We then get a call the next day, to discuss payment for repairing the damages to the other car.  If I don't think the accident was my fault, as the other car hit me from behind, am I liable to pay for the damage on their car?  I don't want to get my insurance involved for this if it's going to increase my premiums. 

Let your insurance people deal with it, do not try to deal with it yourself. The insurance companies decide who is to pay. It doesnt sound like your liable based on what youve said. Get your insurance involved...Thats what you pay them for ..

Most insurance companies offer a "one claim" accident insurance, which doesnt affect your premiums if you have a proper prang... worth it of your car is of some quality. (ditto for parking scratches/ jealous key scratches etc.)

A minor dent if your fault wont affect your premiums much if at all... if its not your fault,or you dont think it is, then let the insurance people deal with it...(not your insurance bill so no premium hike) Some people will try and rob you for minor bumps, ie...at the same time theyll get other scratches or dents that ocured previously fixed on your account.... and then instead of paying 500 to 1000 CHF you end up with a couple (if not more) of thousand claimed.

Also most car insurances have a "juridique" part which gives you free lawyer help in dealing with such cases.... if the other party is claiming from you...dont bother even talking to them just ship it across to the lawyers and insurance... 9/10 cases will involve people trying it on a bit... so not worth your hassle.

Wendy,

All depends what really happened and on what you agreed with other party.

Why would'nt you fill out the "constat à l'amiable"?

When the other car hit you from the back, IT IS HIS FAULT and you do not pay nothing to them.

You tell them they are very happy because you did not call the police, than they would also be fined, olso they would have to pay the damage on your car.  But tell them : if they insist you can always involve your insurance c. which will than cost them more than if they repair the minor damage on their car themselfs.

Be hard and insistant with them. It is their/his/her fault not yours.

For a minor damage on your car I would not involve the insurance company since you have a " francise" probably a minimum of CHF 1000.-

Hi,

The price, believe or not, seems in order around here. Someone barely scratched my car at a parking lot and because they had to paint the whole piece it was over a thousand francs.

The insurance companies here do not bother to check into details for that amount of money. In theory, you could have asked the other party to give you the contact information of the dealer and then have someone from your insurance to take pictures of the damage and determine if the price was reasonable. If your insurance finds that the price does not correspond to the repair needed, they will force the owner to take the car to some other place to get a second quote or a place chosen by the insurance company. But as I said, they normally do not bother to do all this for those amounts, it might be a lot to you but it's peanuts to them.

Montse.

Hello Zonker,

Little car accident like that happens all the time and that why insurance are hear for (I hope).

This kind of damage should be taken by the third party liability of the insurance of the car your were driving. As I understand this is a renting car, this should be taken by the third party liability (RC) of Patrick location.

With your own insurance, it is true you have the solution of paying yourself or asking the RC of your car insurance to pay for the damage. The excess is usually CHF 200 not more. In Switzerland, there is bonus protection which is an option that protects all this little cost. You can still declare it to your insurance, your premium will stay the same the next year.

I hope this help

Fanny, the glocals insurance advisor

Here's a link to accident report form. I believe it's mandatory in some countries to have this in your car:

http://www.international-accident.com/f.html (German/French) Also available in English/French, but a quick search did not find it.

With these crazy rates, I think I will turn in my rented car and leave it there.. 1000 EUR deductible.

Apparently my wife had an accident a week ago, she rolled back in traffic and nudged the Citroen approaching from behind. No visible damage at all, not a scratch, it was basically just a bump of license plates. She offered an exchange of details but this was declined at the time, and everyone went off apparently content. The first I heard of it was yesterday, a week later, when I got a call at work from the police telling me that the other driver had complained to them, and for me to sort it out. The other friver been to a garage who estimated at least 500 frs of damage.

If we are found at fault then we have no problem with paying for any damage, but I would baulk at paying for imaginary damage. Do I have to replace her bumper no matter what?

Tony,

Who was with your wife at the time of accident ? Was she alone or with an adult?

How many were in the other car ?  Was the communication language English ?

One - one or two - one ? In such case I would tell to other person "allez cueillir les patates".  Just do not fall in the trap !

Tony:

Wow, that's not a nice story. Speak with your car-insurance agent. If he/she are any good, they should be able to give you good advice on what to do. 

And if you have legal protection insurance, I'd speak with them too. Many times just a call from the legal-protection guys is enough to get the other party to come back to their senses.

Good luck. Am curious to hear how it ends. 

Nir