You just made two mistakes and you fall in the trap.  Things are not just that in this town. It couild happen to you anywhere to touch the "nice guy".

Frank, can you be more specific? What mistakes? How should I have handled it differently? Qu'est-ce que j'ai fait faux!?

I am "listening" in... Just to know everything, did you sign anything at the place or what happened exactly?

Who sent you the bill, was it the guy or his insurance? If you are insured, does your insurance not cover it?

In Denmark normally you would report the accident to your insurance and the two insurance agencies would figure it out, but you would have to accept the blame offcourse...

I had almost the same experience when this really rude guy called the Police on me since i had 'allegedly' hit his porsche in the parking lot. The police for some reason blindly took his side and were kind of abusive towards me... (they are not very polite with the outsiders). 

However, in the accident report i clearly wrote that I did not recall hitting his car ever and also that the damage on his car was very minor and let my insurance company deal with his. I dont think i would end up paying anything in the end. 

Do you remember what you wrote in the accident report? Normally the extent of damage is mentioned on it which can help the insurance company make an assessment of the type of cost involved.  

I would suggest that you ring up your insurance company and explain the situation to them. They should see this kind of thing happening all the time and should be able to help you out.

Bumper replacement for just some minor scratches sound absurd.

I thought the wounded party (!) was supposed to get an estimate for the repair which your insurance co. then has to agree to before the repair is done.  

Makes you think it would be useful to always carry a small camera with you ... : )

@all: I have a long-term rental from Patrick Location, so I don't know the details about their insurance. But, it seems they have a 2000 CHF deductible. Anything less than 2000, I pay.

@frank: can you elaborate, please? I'd really like to know

@caroline: we filled in the accident report in which I very clearly wrote that 1) we were stopped, 2) I bumped his car after traveling about 5 km/h and from a distance of only 1-3 meters, 3) only paint damage, and 4) drew a picture indicating it all. And, yes, we both signed it. I thought that was required, no?

@yuneeb: considering the above, I'm not really sure whom to call. Plus, it's already been paid, eh? Unless someone thinks I could get some (?) money back for an over priced claim.

@mozambique: i always have a small camera with me, my phone. But, having an accident is not something one practices how to react. I was annoyed with myself, wondering what the costs would be, late for a client, holding up traffic, etc. and so i neglected to take a photo. <sigh>

Hi,

You probably have to ask for an advice. For example at the FRC (Fédération Romande des Consommateurs). If there is a computer meeting on Monday I will be there and I will give you more information. There also is "La permanence des avocats" which rate is cheap (I think CHF 60.- for a meeting).

If there was any paint damage on his bumper, a new spray at a reputable shop will easy come to 1000chf just for that job. Often "fender bender" damage is only skin deep, but occasionally there is some damage "inside" as well, parts you can't see. Sometimes the shops will perform geometry tests to ensure that no structural damage was done, and all those tests basically take man hours.

Then again, if the bumper also had any cracks, it might have had to be replaced and Mercedes parts are not exactly cheap.

Unfortunately, I've seen similar quotes for simple bumper jobs on the high end German vehicles and sounds to me like it's just best to pay IF your insurance hasn't been alerted and you wish to keep your bonus intact.

well... good luck with whatever you decide to do next.

I have just had a very similar experience with a Jean lain long term rental. Except my bill was 1600 Euros (exactly the same as the excess.. what a coincidence).

However if you paid for your car with a gold or platinum (or other 'premium' credit card)the excess will be covered by the credit card. You'll need to phone them to find out how to claim it back...

Regarding paying the bill yourself, it might depend on the insurance contract itself, as very often  you'll  have "protection du bonus", which means your bonus is protected for 1 accident a year (I guess it depends on the way your insurer present it to you, I nearly never offer a car insurance without it).

Keep in mind however as this "1 accident a year" is for a civil year, january-december, and we're only in March.

Rémy

1400 frs for a bumper is not expensive.  Someone bumped into my rear bumper recently (similar low speed) and his insurance had to pay more than 3000frs (I drive a Porsche - so half that price for a Mercedes seems correct to me). Btw, I was present when my garage called the insurance of the other party and they didn't complain - so these seems standard prices. Welcome to Switzerland.

I asked for a quote a month or so ago to respray a bumper which had some paint scratches on it - the garage basically laughed and said they don't bother respraying any more these days but simply replace the bumper.  The cost was around 1400 francs so sadly i think your experience is in line.  As Didier said, welcome to Swissyland.

I think it all depends on whether it was the insurance company that paid for it, then they would have contacted your insurance company (or the company resposable for insuring the car) So then the bill would have come from your insurance company.

If the guy went ahead and did it without going through the insurance company then I wouldn't pay anything it's his fault for not waiting for the insurance company to sort it.

The Swiss system works both ways, if it hasn't been done through the proper channels then it's tough for the guy, you don't owe him anything.

If you've already paid the bill yourself then I'm afraid you've lost your money.

I had a similar experience 7 years ago, someone hit my brand new Mercedes (1 week only) it was just a little hole in the bumper, maybe with and old car I would just spray some paint, but been just a brand new one I took it to the Mercedes garage and the other guy insurance payed about 1200 Chf, it was 7 year ago so I think now it is a litte bit more expensive.

I think it is a normal price for this kind of accident, if the bumper is only scrashed or completely demolished the price will be the same, of course if not structural damage occurs.

And as Didier says, welcome to "Expensiveland".  :-(

not just Switzerland, i'd say, although i'm sure Geneva proximity might inflate prices in nearby France... my car was in an accident (it was parked, i wasn't in it, only there to see the damage post-accident and spend a nice freezing hour with the police officers that made sure i was able to drive off again) and to replace both bumpers, the quote was nearly 4000 euros. it's just a Nissan, so as others have mentioned, what you were quoted was presumably about right.

So it seems CHF 1400 might be the real price the guy paid. But does anyone know what the process is in CH for minor accidents like this one, especially where there's damage to the other guy's car?

It seems that in this case the other guy just sent Zonker an invoice...Does Zonker really have to pay it?

Remy: I'm counting on your knowledge, you know EVRYTHING about insurance...(-:

Nir

How it's normally supposed to happen:

2 people have an accident - 1 or both parties see that their car is damaged, they can decide on 2 things - work it out between themselves or submit the accident to their relative insurance companies.

They then fill out the constat international d'accident (a blue form in 4 parts) explaining what happened and what areas of the vehicule(s) were damaged. Part 1 is to be sent to the person responsable for the accident insurance comapny, part 2 to the victim's insurance company, part 3 is for the victim. part 4 is for the person responsable for the accident.

The insurance companies will then contact each other, each will then send out an investigator to assess the damage - repairs or scrapping of the vehicles will be made. The company insuring the person responsable for the insurance will pay the bill according to the insurance cover, and then send a bill for relative costs and expenses to the person responsable for the accident.

The vicitm under no circumstances is to repair the car themselves as it has been submitted to the insurance companies, if the victim does this the insurance companies will refuse to get involved and the victim will be out of pocket. In this situation the person responsable for the accident has no obligation to the victim.

So zonker, if you filled out the appropriate forms and the guy repaired his car himself and you had not agreed to sort it out on the friendly it's tough luck for him, if you had filled out an accident decleration and he didn't submit it - tough luck to him.

You don't owe him ANYTHING

Simon, 

Thanks mate. Where does one get this accident-report form, any clue?

Nir

The accident report form is carried in your car Nir. It's a blue coloured form that the insurance companies give you when you take out your poicy and normally each year the send you a few more to keep in your car. When you have an accident usually you would fill it in with the other party and then submit it to your insurance  company. It has space for a description, picture etc as well as the signitures of the parties involved. Means that all the details are recored at the time of the accident when things are clear in both minds.

Hope this is helpful :)

Kirsty 

Kirsty:

Thanks mate. 

All I ever got from my car insurance agent were bills so far...(-:

I just emailed the guy asking him to send me these folks. Let's hope I never need em...

Thanks for the info!

Nir

No worries Nir.....hope you get one ok :-)

Will share my knowledge on the issue really soon too. Just a guy bumped my car a little bit and it looks like the bumber needs to be replaced. 

And awfull prizes. I really hope the guy won't end up paying a lot because he was so nice. :(

With premium cars, (Porsche, Merc, BMW and upwards) nowadays the bumpers hold the park distance control sensors... these can be put out by a simple fender bender...my cayenne had one made faulty by a neighbours kids playing football...easliy done.

The Bumper plus PDC is expensive (1400++) and here I'm guessing people like their cars pristeen, so even a paint scratch or dent would warrant a replacement at the cost of the guilty party.

Sorry mate, but it looks to me that you paid the right price.  

What happens when the ashtray is full? Do they replace the car? ;-)

yep... thats when you see porsche drivers braking hard for orange lights and not speeding up :-))

i have an adress in France just close to the border in pays de gex,

it is a 'carrosserie' making small repairs at reasonnables prices, as soon as the

two parts are not involved in a formal insurance agreement.

Let me know