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Right for return of second hand goods in Switzerland

I sold a 10 year old Ikea second hand wardrobe on Anibis in October for CHF 200 which I bought for well over CHF 1,000. There were one or two pegs broken off inside where it joined but nothing too serious. And let's face it - it was a 10 year old wardrobe from Ikea! Also these defects were pointed out to the buyer when he collected it.

Today - two months later! - he wrote to me demanding a full refund and that I'm a rip-off artist, he'll go to the police, press charges, etc, etc as I said the wardrobe was in good state which it was. I didn't write in the advert "in an excellent state" or "like new".

My question is what rights under Swiss law does he have as far as returns of second hand goods go? In the UK it would be 'sold as seen' as a given unless you gave him an actual guarantee in writing. Also if he'd have come back after a week that might help but leaving it two months...

I don't want to be unsympathetic to him and would like to help. I did consider offering to find a handy man who could go round and fix it for him or refund up to CHF 100 but reading the aggressive tone of his e-mail, I just thought "Sod it!". Let's see what his actual rights are before he starts threatening legal action. Also if he did go to the trouble of engaging a lawyer it'd be more than he spent on the thing in the first place!

The text you are quoting:

I sold a 10 year old Ikea second hand wardrobe on Anibis in October for CHF 200 which I bought for well over CHF 1,000. There were one or two pegs broken off inside where it joined but nothing too serious. And let's face it - it was a 10 year old wardrobe from Ikea! Also these defects were pointed out to the buyer when he collected it.

Today - two months later! - he wrote to me demanding a full refund and that I'm a rip-off artist, he'll go to the police, press charges, etc, etc as I said the wardrobe was in good state which it was. I didn't write in the advert "in an excellent state" or "like new".

My question is what rights under Swiss law does he have as far as returns of second hand goods go? In the UK it would be 'sold as seen' as a given unless you gave him an actual guarantee in writing. Also if he'd have come back after a week that might help but leaving it two months...

I don't want to be unsympathetic to him and would like to help. I did consider offering to find a handy man who could go round and fix it for him or refund up to CHF 100 but reading the aggressive tone of his e-mail, I just thought "Sod it!". Let's see what his actual rights are before he starts threatening legal action. Also if he did go to the trouble of engaging a lawyer it'd be more than he spent on the thing in the first place!


RichDec 19, 2014 @ 12:11
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Re: Right for return of second hand goods in Switzerland
Post 1

Good question, I'd be curious to see responses from someone who really knows the law. 


If you have legal insurance then you should ask them as well. 


 

The text you are quoting:

Good question, I'd be curious to see responses from someone who really knows the law. 


If you have legal insurance then you should ask them as well. 


 


Nir Ofek, Dec 19, 2014 @ 12:40
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Re: Right for return of second hand goods in Switzerland
Post 2

Apropos something a little different : what rights if any does anyone have after having sent an item by post BEFORE it is paid? OK naive or what? But generally speaking, the Swiss are trustworthy. In retrospect we shouldn't have done this, but wanted to do the recipient a favour. Now, after repeated requests and even putting an invoice into his letterbox, still nothing. NB this has been done by a friend of ours who also lives in W'thur. Presumably this is a lost cause? Oh well, you win some, you lose some - at least Rich you received quite a lot of money! Your remarks regarding the lawyer rings true here too, as it is more than the dictionary is worth.

The text you are quoting:

Apropos something a little different : what rights if any does anyone have after having sent an item by post BEFORE it is paid? OK naive or what? But generally speaking, the Swiss are trustworthy. In retrospect we shouldn't have done this, but wanted to do the recipient a favour. Now, after repeated requests and even putting an invoice into his letterbox, still nothing. NB this has been done by a friend of ours who also lives in W'thur. Presumably this is a lost cause? Oh well, you win some, you lose some - at least Rich you received quite a lot of money! Your remarks regarding the lawyer rings true here too, as it is more than the dictionary is worth.


sheila c, Dec 19, 2014 @ 13:07
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Re: Right for return of second hand goods in Switzerland
Post 3

Good question, I'd be curious to see responses from someone who really knows the law. 

If you have legal insurance then you should ask them as well. 

 


Dec 19, 14 12:40

Actually responses from someone with knowledge of Swiss law would be good Nir. Especially  giving the exact Swiss Law code of obligations to which this situation relates in order to finally put this matter to bed.


I've seen on returns policies for good bought in shops it's dependant on the shop itself and can range from 7 days to one month so am hoping for goods bought second hand it might be less complicated.


I would imagine you've had a few complaints - rightly or wrongly - reported to you for items sold in Glocals classified. What was the course of action recommended then?


Thanks.

The text you are quoting:

Actually responses from someone with knowledge of Swiss law would be good Nir. Especially  giving the exact Swiss Law code of obligations to which this situation relates in order to finally put this matter to bed.


I've seen on returns policies for good bought in shops it's dependant on the shop itself and can range from 7 days to one month so am hoping for goods bought second hand it might be less complicated.


I would imagine you've had a few complaints - rightly or wrongly - reported to you for items sold in Glocals classified. What was the course of action recommended then?


Thanks.


Rich, Dec 19, 2014 @ 13:52
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Re: Right for return of second hand goods in Switzerland
Post 4

Actually responses from someone with knowledge of Swiss law would be good Nir. Especially  giving the exact Swiss Law code of obligations to which this situation relates in order to finally put this matter to bed.

I've seen on returns policies for good bought in shops it's dependant on the shop itself and can range from 7 days to one month so am hoping for goods bought second hand it might be less complicated.

I would imagine you've had a few complaints - rightly or wrongly - reported to you for items sold in Glocals classified. What was the course of action recommended then?

Thanks.


Dec 19, 14 13:52

We havn't had such complaints on glocals (that doesn't mean they don't happen, of course). If we get such complaints, and since we're not legal experts, I'd suggest to anyone to seek legal advice before taking any further action. If you have legal insurance then legal advice is simple and nearly free, otherwise I'd go to this permanance thing where expert lawyers give their time for CHF 60 an hour. 


From a common sense personal point of view, I would think that if you sell a closet to someone, then the buyer takes it as is, without any guarantee, even if that's not mentioned anywhere in any contract. But the law ain't always aliged with common sense...

The text you are quoting:

We havn't had such complaints on glocals (that doesn't mean they don't happen, of course). If we get such complaints, and since we're not legal experts, I'd suggest to anyone to seek legal advice before taking any further action. If you have legal insurance then legal advice is simple and nearly free, otherwise I'd go to this permanance thing where expert lawyers give their time for CHF 60 an hour. 


From a common sense personal point of view, I would think that if you sell a closet to someone, then the buyer takes it as is, without any guarantee, even if that's not mentioned anywhere in any contract. But the law ain't always aliged with common sense...


Nir Ofek, Dec 19, 2014 @ 14:07
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Re: Right for return of second hand goods in Switzerland
Post 5

Hi Rich.


Well, first of all, if someone wants to get further with such an affair, he will have, indeed, to spend a lot of money! That's why, my first opinion, is that he's saying this just as a "warning", trying to be scary and make you accept the refund. Then, if this person is actually crazy and has nothing better to do in his life, and if he tries to keep on, in this stupid thing, you were right about what compared with the UK. You did not provide any guarantee, it was a transaction between two private persons, so the responsability is in both of you. He's responsible about the second hand good he bought. If you did mentionned what was broken, so you're safe of any charges against you ( if you still have the add or if you have something remaining about your transaction, where you can find that you mentionned that 1 or 2 things were broken or not working correctly, it's a plus for you) And then, what I can advise you to do is :


- If you have a Legal Insurance (called: Protection Juridique), ask them what to do, or even better, ask them to write a (scary)letter to this person. It's easy, you just have to call and ask for it.


- If you DON'T have a legal insurance, tell him that you have one, and tell him that if he wants to go further, you'll let him talk with your lawyer. (it should make him calm down...) AND then, ask for a Legal Insurance contract, because, for the price it costs it really worth it!!!


 


I always thought that any problem can be solved by discussion and by human contact, but unfortunately some people think different ... :-)

The text you are quoting:

Hi Rich.


Well, first of all, if someone wants to get further with such an affair, he will have, indeed, to spend a lot of money! That's why, my first opinion, is that he's saying this just as a "warning", trying to be scary and make you accept the refund. Then, if this person is actually crazy and has nothing better to do in his life, and if he tries to keep on, in this stupid thing, you were right about what compared with the UK. You did not provide any guarantee, it was a transaction between two private persons, so the responsability is in both of you. He's responsible about the second hand good he bought. If you did mentionned what was broken, so you're safe of any charges against you ( if you still have the add or if you have something remaining about your transaction, where you can find that you mentionned that 1 or 2 things were broken or not working correctly, it's a plus for you) And then, what I can advise you to do is :


- If you have a Legal Insurance (called: Protection Juridique), ask them what to do, or even better, ask them to write a (scary)letter to this person. It's easy, you just have to call and ask for it.


- If you DON'T have a legal insurance, tell him that you have one, and tell him that if he wants to go further, you'll let him talk with your lawyer. (it should make him calm down...) AND then, ask for a Legal Insurance contract, because, for the price it costs it really worth it!!!


 


I always thought that any problem can be solved by discussion and by human contact, but unfortunately some people think different ... :-)


Carlos B, Dec 19, 2014 @ 14:18
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