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"Partenariat enregistré" Pac-ing in Geneva?
I am an American who has been living with L-permits tied to work for two years in Geneva. My contract is going to finish in January. A Swiss "friend" of mine proposed getting pac-ed so I could stay in Switzerland. (Pac = civil union)



Questions.

1. How do I do this?

2. Do we have to have the same address?

3. What would be the negative effects of this registered union?

4. Would I be able to apply for a B permit?

5. Have you done this/known someone who has? Is it a good or bad idea?



ps. There is potentially a path to true romance and marriage in this partnership but if I leave the country we will not be able to see what happens...
The text you are quoting:
I am an American who has been living with L-permits tied to work for two years in Geneva. My contract is going to finish in January. A Swiss "friend" of mine proposed getting pac-ed so I could stay in Switzerland. (Pac = civil union)



Questions.

1. How do I do this?

2. Do we have to have the same address?

3. What would be the negative effects of this registered union?

4. Would I be able to apply for a B permit?

5. Have you done this/known someone who has? Is it a good or bad idea?



ps. There is potentially a path to true romance and marriage in this partnership but if I leave the country we will not be able to see what happens...
lcriddDec 8, 2008 @ 12:05
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Re: "Partenariat enregistré" Pac-ing in Geneva?
Post 1
Hi, did you receive any help with this? would also be interested in the process.

thx

Tracy
The text you are quoting:
Hi, did you receive any help with this? would also be interested in the process.

thx

Tracy
tnt749, Feb 6, 2009 @ 19:00
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Re: "Partenariat enregistré" Pac-ing in Geneva?
Post 2
See the post on Work Permit/Marriage in this same section...

Opposite sex individuals can enter into a registered partnership in the Canton of Geneva but the legal effects/benefits  are not the same as the federal registered partnership which is reserved for same sex couples. 

 It's probably best to consult with a lawyer...

The text you are quoting:
See the post on Work Permit/Marriage in this same section...

Opposite sex individuals can enter into a registered partnership in the Canton of Geneva but the legal effects/benefits  are not the same as the federal registered partnership which is reserved for same sex couples. 

 It's probably best to consult with a lawyer...
Translator, Feb 6, 2009 @ 19:28

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Re: "Partenariat enregistré" Pac-ing in Geneva?
Post 3
I have not gone through the process, as I was lucky enough to find a job to stay. This is the advice I was given:



"I would highly recommed you go to 360 offices in Geneva- Paquis( www.360.ch). They have a great lawyer(family), who knows the working around the system. She's very smart, and speaks English. They charge 50chf per consultation which goes to the gay/lesbian cause."



Good luck.
The text you are quoting:
I have not gone through the process, as I was lucky enough to find a job to stay. This is the advice I was given:



"I would highly recommed you go to 360 offices in Geneva- Paquis( www.360.ch). They have a great lawyer(family), who knows the working around the system. She's very smart, and speaks English. They charge 50chf per consultation which goes to the gay/lesbian cause."



Good luck.
lcridd, Feb 9, 2009 @ 13:03
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Re: "Partenariat enregistré" Pac-ing in Geneva?
Post 4
Is "Partenariat enregistré" only for same-sex partnerships? What about common-law, not same-sex?

thx?
The text you are quoting:
Is "Partenariat enregistré" only for same-sex partnerships? What about common-law, not same-sex?

thx?
tnt749, Feb 13, 2009 @ 14:34
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Re: "Partenariat enregistré" Pac-ing in Geneva?
Post 5
it is for anyone - homosexual or heterosexual. although the law has been written with same-sex relationships in mind.
The text you are quoting:
it is for anyone - homosexual or heterosexual. although the law has been written with same-sex relationships in mind.
lcridd, Feb 13, 2009 @ 14:48
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Re: "Partenariat enregistré" Pac-ing in Geneva?
Post 6
There seems to be a bit of confusion here. There are two types of "partenariat":



- the Geneva one, called PACS, that is both for hetero- an homosexual couples. It grants you a few very limited rights on the CANTONAL level only, and has only symbolic relevance since the 1.1.2007, when the federal law got in force.

- the federal law, called the LPArt (Loi sur le partenariat enregistré), which is for same sex couples only, and gives rights on cantonal and federal level that are very similar to those of married couples, except for adoptions and medically assisted procreation.



As work permit issues have been regulated on a federal level (although it is the cantons' responsibility to give them out and check that all conditions are fulfilled), only married couples or same-sex couples with a federal "partenariat" can benefit from the easier work-permit procedures. AND you have to be living with your partner, otherwise they can take your work permit away (even if you're married!, at least in the first 3 years i think). All thanks to Blocher hardening the laws. "white marriages", ie fake ones, are now a criminal offense, so it's not to be taken lightly.



So, unless you plan to have a same sex federal partenariat, the geneva pacs is not going to be of any use on a work-permit issue. At least you can't pretend to any legal right to a work permit, and it's all up to the discretion of the authorities, and the quotas etc...



Hope this helps,



Joelle
The text you are quoting:
There seems to be a bit of confusion here. There are two types of "partenariat":



- the Geneva one, called PACS, that is both for hetero- an homosexual couples. It grants you a few very limited rights on the CANTONAL level only, and has only symbolic relevance since the 1.1.2007, when the federal law got in force.

- the federal law, called the LPArt (Loi sur le partenariat enregistré), which is for same sex couples only, and gives rights on cantonal and federal level that are very similar to those of married couples, except for adoptions and medically assisted procreation.



As work permit issues have been regulated on a federal level (although it is the cantons' responsibility to give them out and check that all conditions are fulfilled), only married couples or same-sex couples with a federal "partenariat" can benefit from the easier work-permit procedures. AND you have to be living with your partner, otherwise they can take your work permit away (even if you're married!, at least in the first 3 years i think). All thanks to Blocher hardening the laws. "white marriages", ie fake ones, are now a criminal offense, so it's not to be taken lightly.



So, unless you plan to have a same sex federal partenariat, the geneva pacs is not going to be of any use on a work-permit issue. At least you can't pretend to any legal right to a work permit, and it's all up to the discretion of the authorities, and the quotas etc...



Hope this helps,



Joelle
joellek, Feb 14, 2009 @ 18:25
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Re: "Partenariat enregistré" Pac-ing in Geneva?
Post 7
Thanks all,



Joelle, I really appreciated this clarification - very useful!



Cheers,

Tracy
The text you are quoting:
Thanks all,



Joelle, I really appreciated this clarification - very useful!



Cheers,

Tracy
tnt749, Feb 17, 2009 @ 14:34
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Re: "Partenariat enregistré" Pac-ing in Geneva?
Post 8
I Pac'sd in Nov 2007.

Things are not quite straight forward as you may think. Depending on you and your partners nationality, the permits may be slow in coming.

As a British citizen, I have a Permit C and in fulltime employment. My partner is Russian and was a fulltime student. To Pacs, my partner had to go back to Russia and had to get all sorts of forms and signatures from authorities from local town halls to and then back to Moscow to have all the legal frame work signed by a legal authority. Along with my required papers which are requested via the local civil office in either Lausanne or Geneva, we had a limited time to have them all sent and waited approval.

I had to prove that we had been living together for more than 6 months at the same address and that my salary was sufficient enough to support the both of us after all my outgoings etc. After this the civil office called with some further questions and when they were happy enough that we were entering into a civil partnership we were given a date to go ahead with. They also have people that occasionally check on your status if they have any doubts or suspicions that your relationship is only based on staying in Switzerland illegally. My partner also mentioned that some students were deported from Switzerland for attempting to do the marry or Pacs and were caught out.

It should not be taken lightly. PAC's is a legal partnership and is seen as the same way a marriage is here and in other countries. The only 2 exceptions I am aware of is that same sex partnerships are not allowed to adopt, or in the case of females have artificial insemination. Furthermore there are tax and pension obligations involved which you tend to find out about later on. Frankly speaking, it is best to discuss this with a legal person and in the case you do go ahead and PAC's it is worth signing a contract with a Notaire to avoid any potential complications later on. 

We have also been made aware that if for whatever reason one day we both decide to part ways, this will not automatically give my partner the right to remain in Switzerland, not even after 5 years. Going through a legal separation is the same having to get a divorce, although you have to prove you have been separated for more than 1 year and living in separate accommodation. Furthermore, if for example you are still a student and your partner is working, they will still need to provide for you and make contributions to your tax payments. Therefore it's not something to enter into lightly, the costs involved longterm ought to be weighed up.

For your information, my partner only recently received a full residence permit B and that was 14 months after us making our partnership official.

The text you are quoting:
I Pac'sd in Nov 2007.

Things are not quite straight forward as you may think. Depending on you and your partners nationality, the permits may be slow in coming.

As a British citizen, I have a Permit C and in fulltime employment. My partner is Russian and was a fulltime student. To Pacs, my partner had to go back to Russia and had to get all sorts of forms and signatures from authorities from local town halls to and then back to Moscow to have all the legal frame work signed by a legal authority. Along with my required papers which are requested via the local civil office in either Lausanne or Geneva, we had a limited time to have them all sent and waited approval.

I had to prove that we had been living together for more than 6 months at the same address and that my salary was sufficient enough to support the both of us after all my outgoings etc. After this the civil office called with some further questions and when they were happy enough that we were entering into a civil partnership we were given a date to go ahead with. They also have people that occasionally check on your status if they have any doubts or suspicions that your relationship is only based on staying in Switzerland illegally. My partner also mentioned that some students were deported from Switzerland for attempting to do the marry or Pacs and were caught out.

It should not be taken lightly. PAC's is a legal partnership and is seen as the same way a marriage is here and in other countries. The only 2 exceptions I am aware of is that same sex partnerships are not allowed to adopt, or in the case of females have artificial insemination. Furthermore there are tax and pension obligations involved which you tend to find out about later on. Frankly speaking, it is best to discuss this with a legal person and in the case you do go ahead and PAC's it is worth signing a contract with a Notaire to avoid any potential complications later on. 

We have also been made aware that if for whatever reason one day we both decide to part ways, this will not automatically give my partner the right to remain in Switzerland, not even after 5 years. Going through a legal separation is the same having to get a divorce, although you have to prove you have been separated for more than 1 year and living in separate accommodation. Furthermore, if for example you are still a student and your partner is working, they will still need to provide for you and make contributions to your tax payments. Therefore it's not something to enter into lightly, the costs involved longterm ought to be weighed up.

For your information, my partner only recently received a full residence permit B and that was 14 months after us making our partnership official.
DJ_Ladybird, Feb 17, 2009 @ 16:14

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