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ASLOCA vs Reggie - Lawyers, who is right? Please help...

We have recently been given advice about our contract from ASLOCA, however, our reggie (GRANGE) have outright said that they are wrong. I am concerned that following ASLOCA's advice could lead to nothing but legal fees and a lost battle.


Situation:


- We want to terminate our lease "early". We had a fixed contract between 01.05.12 - 30.04.12.


- The reggie told us our contract was automatically renewed for another 12 months as we stay over the initial 12 months (when we informed them 6 weeks ago that we will move). We agreed to look for a new tenant, as instructed. After a lot of money in advertising, we do not have a new tenant. The apartment is beautiful, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in the area/price at the moment.


-  ASLOCA says that our contract clearly states that it is NOT automatically renewable because they crossed out article 13 (below), and included a special article 7 (below) in its place. As there was no official document between us to extend the contract, we are basically living in the apartment and paying rent without a contract in place.


- ASLOCA advised us to stop the rent payment for July, move out this weekend, take photos in place of an exit inspection (if the reggie refuses to make one) and send the keys via registered post (if they refuse to accept them). If they want to take our deposit, we can dispute it in writing and they will have to prove they are entitled to it (not entirely sure about this procedure).


Article 13: Three months before expiry of lease, parties inform each other in writing about renewal for a one-year period or cancellation. If this is not done, the lease is renewed tacitly under the conditions in force for one year, and so on, year by year, except for cancellation by one of the other party giving at least 3 months notice in advance. In the case of a fixed term lease, the lease ends without notice, at the end of the planned period. 


Article 7: The lease is for a fixed duration and ends on the date stipulated on the contract. An eventual prolongation of the lease might be offered by a written amendment of the lease before its end. 


OK, after that long explanation…


- Do any lawyers know about the umbrella law concerning this situation? Should we fight the reggie?


- Has anyone been given the wrong advice from ASLOCA?


- Does anyone recommend a different lawyer, or some sort of legal insurance?


I am planning on going back to ASLOCA to talk to someone else. I was the last appointment yesterday, so maybe it was rushed. For about 14 hours, a HUGE weight had been lifted from my shoulders, and now I am once again stressed with the financial burden of double rent…


Thanks in advance :)

The text you are quoting:

We have recently been given advice about our contract from ASLOCA, however, our reggie (GRANGE) have outright said that they are wrong. I am concerned that following ASLOCA's advice could lead to nothing but legal fees and a lost battle.


Situation:


- We want to terminate our lease "early". We had a fixed contract between 01.05.12 - 30.04.12.


- The reggie told us our contract was automatically renewed for another 12 months as we stay over the initial 12 months (when we informed them 6 weeks ago that we will move). We agreed to look for a new tenant, as instructed. After a lot of money in advertising, we do not have a new tenant. The apartment is beautiful, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest in the area/price at the moment.


-  ASLOCA says that our contract clearly states that it is NOT automatically renewable because they crossed out article 13 (below), and included a special article 7 (below) in its place. As there was no official document between us to extend the contract, we are basically living in the apartment and paying rent without a contract in place.


- ASLOCA advised us to stop the rent payment for July, move out this weekend, take photos in place of an exit inspection (if the reggie refuses to make one) and send the keys via registered post (if they refuse to accept them). If they want to take our deposit, we can dispute it in writing and they will have to prove they are entitled to it (not entirely sure about this procedure).


Article 13: Three months before expiry of lease, parties inform each other in writing about renewal for a one-year period or cancellation. If this is not done, the lease is renewed tacitly under the conditions in force for one year, and so on, year by year, except for cancellation by one of the other party giving at least 3 months notice in advance. In the case of a fixed term lease, the lease ends without notice, at the end of the planned period. 


Article 7: The lease is for a fixed duration and ends on the date stipulated on the contract. An eventual prolongation of the lease might be offered by a written amendment of the lease before its end. 


OK, after that long explanation…


- Do any lawyers know about the umbrella law concerning this situation? Should we fight the reggie?


- Has anyone been given the wrong advice from ASLOCA?


- Does anyone recommend a different lawyer, or some sort of legal insurance?


I am planning on going back to ASLOCA to talk to someone else. I was the last appointment yesterday, so maybe it was rushed. For about 14 hours, a HUGE weight had been lifted from my shoulders, and now I am once again stressed with the financial burden of double rent…


Thanks in advance :)


Stephanie HJun 27, 2013 @ 10:17
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Re: ASLOCA vs Reggie - Lawyers, who is right? Please help...
Post 1

Hi there,


First, I think meant 01.05.2012-30.04.2103, not 2012.


Second, the Régie is going to fight you tooth and nail, including saying that ASLOCA is wrong. Don't trust them. Régies hate ASLOCA.


I'm not a lawyer, but ASLOCA is very involved in Renter's Rights and has been around a long time doing good work on behalf of renters, so I'm sure that they are not leading you astray.


Still, it's good to confirm, but I think they're advice is sound.


 

The text you are quoting:

Hi there,


First, I think meant 01.05.2012-30.04.2103, not 2012.


Second, the Régie is going to fight you tooth and nail, including saying that ASLOCA is wrong. Don't trust them. Régies hate ASLOCA.


I'm not a lawyer, but ASLOCA is very involved in Renter's Rights and has been around a long time doing good work on behalf of renters, so I'm sure that they are not leading you astray.


Still, it's good to confirm, but I think they're advice is sound.


 


Zonker, Jun 27, 2013 @ 11:37
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Re: ASLOCA vs Reggie - Lawyers, who is right? Please help...
Post 2

If ASLOCA has agreed  to back you that is very positive.


They know what they are doing and don't tend to take on cases they will lose.


With no doubt the Regie will probably harass you in all sorts of ways. It will probably continue right through all the proceedings.


Keep and show all documention from the Regie and what they say. Take it to ASLOCA all documentation they send to you so they can add it to their file.


It's a question of waiting it all out. I had a friend who went through a regie- ASLOCA battle and it wasn't easy for him at all, even dispaired of things at times.


Needless to say ASLOCA won


 

The text you are quoting:

If ASLOCA has agreed  to back you that is very positive.


They know what they are doing and don't tend to take on cases they will lose.


With no doubt the Regie will probably harass you in all sorts of ways. It will probably continue right through all the proceedings.


Keep and show all documention from the Regie and what they say. Take it to ASLOCA all documentation they send to you so they can add it to their file.


It's a question of waiting it all out. I had a friend who went through a regie- ASLOCA battle and it wasn't easy for him at all, even dispaired of things at times.


Needless to say ASLOCA won


 


TogJay, Jun 27, 2013 @ 11:55
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Re: ASLOCA vs Reggie - Lawyers, who is right? Please help...
Post 3

Maybe I was harsh in saying the Regie will probably harrass you right through the proceedings, but it is a possibilty they they may continue to try to do this

The text you are quoting:

Maybe I was harsh in saying the Regie will probably harrass you right through the proceedings, but it is a possibilty they they may continue to try to do this


TogJay, Jun 27, 2013 @ 12:09
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Re: ASLOCA vs Reggie - Lawyers, who is right? Please help...
Post 4

I am not working in tenancy law, but from what you have written, I partyl agree with the ASLOCA position. Sure, they can be wrong as they are after all only human.


But everything seems to indicate, that this is a standard lease for a fixed duaration and I would evalutate this to be a standard


Art. 266


O. End of lease


I. Expiry of agreed duration


2 If the lease is tacitly continued, its duration becomes indefinite.


http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19110009/index.html


This on the other hand would mean, that the normal (usually three month notice period) would come into effect. Why are they telling you to leave at once, even though you already lived their for an additional two months?


I would try to get a second opinion at ASLOCA and depending on the outcome maybe even a third opinion from a lawyer. If you don’t already have a legal insurance, getting one now might not help, as many legal insurances have a retroactively clause, meaning, they won’t cover lawsuits prior of the insurance date.

The text you are quoting:

I am not working in tenancy law, but from what you have written, I partyl agree with the ASLOCA position. Sure, they can be wrong as they are after all only human.


But everything seems to indicate, that this is a standard lease for a fixed duaration and I would evalutate this to be a standard


Art. 266


O. End of lease


I. Expiry of agreed duration


2 If the lease is tacitly continued, its duration becomes indefinite.


http://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19110009/index.html


This on the other hand would mean, that the normal (usually three month notice period) would come into effect. Why are they telling you to leave at once, even though you already lived their for an additional two months?


I would try to get a second opinion at ASLOCA and depending on the outcome maybe even a third opinion from a lawyer. If you don’t already have a legal insurance, getting one now might not help, as many legal insurances have a retroactively clause, meaning, they won’t cover lawsuits prior of the insurance date.


Alan S, Jun 27, 2013 @ 12:34
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Re: ASLOCA vs Reggie - Lawyers, who is right? Please help...
Post 5

I have only praise for Asloca.  If I understood correctly you are leaving the appartment anyway, so do as ASLOCA proposes and at the very worst you will have to pay back the rent the regie claims.


Having said this, I do not for one minute believe that this will be the case.  In my opinion no real need to speak to a second person in ASLOCA but for peace of mind.   


Which is your regie?  Some are incredibly stupid and seem to have no regard for the law.  Others are dictated to by the owners of the block who might be pension funds por something similar who have a standard policy and do not examine the merits of each case.


I would say you have nothing to lose 

The text you are quoting:

I have only praise for Asloca.  If I understood correctly you are leaving the appartment anyway, so do as ASLOCA proposes and at the very worst you will have to pay back the rent the regie claims.


Having said this, I do not for one minute believe that this will be the case.  In my opinion no real need to speak to a second person in ASLOCA but for peace of mind.   


Which is your regie?  Some are incredibly stupid and seem to have no regard for the law.  Others are dictated to by the owners of the block who might be pension funds por something similar who have a standard policy and do not examine the merits of each case.


I would say you have nothing to lose 


Paul E, Jun 27, 2013 @ 12:51
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Re: ASLOCA vs Reggie - Lawyers, who is right? Please help...
Post 6

Thanks all for the input. I went with my gut and spoke to another person at ASLOCA. 


I had a longer meeting, and everything was explained much more clearly. I was, however, given very different advice. I have to say that second time round, I got a more thorough explanation and also I have more confidence in his plan of action. 


Alan - you were right! And it was ASLOCA telling me to leave (not the reggie) so that I can stop paying rent before next month begins. 


I guess that the lawyers there are just like those in any other firm, there are some with more experience, and some will have bad days etc...


It's not over, and I have NEVER needed a lawyer before (feels like something I only see happen in movies), but I now understand what people mean when they say they have confience in ASLOCA. Now fingers crossed it all goes according to plan!

The text you are quoting:

Thanks all for the input. I went with my gut and spoke to another person at ASLOCA. 


I had a longer meeting, and everything was explained much more clearly. I was, however, given very different advice. I have to say that second time round, I got a more thorough explanation and also I have more confidence in his plan of action. 


Alan - you were right! And it was ASLOCA telling me to leave (not the reggie) so that I can stop paying rent before next month begins. 


I guess that the lawyers there are just like those in any other firm, there are some with more experience, and some will have bad days etc...


It's not over, and I have NEVER needed a lawyer before (feels like something I only see happen in movies), but I now understand what people mean when they say they have confience in ASLOCA. Now fingers crossed it all goes according to plan!


Stephanie H, Jun 27, 2013 @ 23:23
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Re: ASLOCA vs Reggie - Lawyers, who is right? Please help...
Post 7

Hi Judy, 


Yes, everything worked out even better than we could have hoped for. In the end, the second lawyer was great. It was threes ago though, and I haven't had any reason to try them again. 


Not a good sign that he hasn't been responding, you can always talk to someone on reception and see if he is in the office. Hope it all goes well for you!

The text you are quoting:

Hi Judy, 


Yes, everything worked out even better than we could have hoped for. In the end, the second lawyer was great. It was threes ago though, and I haven't had any reason to try them again. 


Not a good sign that he hasn't been responding, you can always talk to someone on reception and see if he is in the office. Hope it all goes well for you!


Stephanie H, Aug 19, 2016 @ 04:38
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Re: ASLOCA vs Reggie - Lawyers, who is right? Please help...
Post 8

Hi Judy, I have had somewhat of a same experience of having 4 laywers to my case with ASLOCA.  Btw, do you know ASLOCA's hourly rate for the lawyers? And were you told at the initial meeting of their hourly rate?  Thanks.  


Cheers, Anushia

The text you are quoting:

Hi Judy, I have had somewhat of a same experience of having 4 laywers to my case with ASLOCA.  Btw, do you know ASLOCA's hourly rate for the lawyers? And were you told at the initial meeting of their hourly rate?  Thanks.  


Cheers, Anushia


amanoharan, Sep 6, 2016 @ 21:27
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