Has anyone given birth at Hospital de la Tour in Geneva? My doctor is affiliated with this hospital and I live in Lausanne, so I'm trying to decide if I want to deliver there. Is it nice, is the staff attentive with good bedside manner. As private hospitals go how would you rate it?
Thanks for any insights.
D
Has anyone given birth at Hospital de la Tour in Geneva? My doctor is affiliated with this hospital and I live in Lausanne, so I'm trying to decide if I want to deliver there. Is it nice, is the staff attentive with good bedside manner. As private hospitals go how would you rate it?
Thanks for any insights.
D
Good luck!
Good luck!
harris, Aug 5, 2008 @ 18:16
Hi
I've given birth at La Tour twice, both excellent experiences. The staff are very professional, friendly and helpful but not 'in your face'. They're very pro-breastfeeding and father-friendly too. Talking to other mum's and while I was in there both times, I have the impression that they're a little 'scissor-happy' - straight to c-section if the birth isn't immediately straightforward. But I guess that depends more on the OBGYN than the actual hospital.
All in all, the hospital is great, and they are very open to you popping back for advice once you've left their safe clutches and go it alone at home.
Good luck, and enjoy the experience!
Hi
I've given birth at La Tour twice, both excellent experiences. The staff are very professional, friendly and helpful but not 'in your face'. They're very pro-breastfeeding and father-friendly too. Talking to other mum's and while I was in there both times, I have the impression that they're a little 'scissor-happy' - straight to c-section if the birth isn't immediately straightforward. But I guess that depends more on the OBGYN than the actual hospital.
All in all, the hospital is great, and they are very open to you popping back for advice once you've left their safe clutches and go it alone at home.
Good luck, and enjoy the experience!
SwissLabels, Aug 6, 2008 @ 11:32
Although probably the best hospital in Geneva, I suspect that the staff at La Tour Hospital are discriminatory towards people who look like they may not be European. I based this view on two recent visits.
On the first visit the person, who looks white, when he told hospital staff that he was Palestinian was asked to first pay in advance of any treatment. When he asked to see a hospital administrator he was told that was regular practice. When he stated that his insurance company said they have an agreement with La Tour by which they will pay the hospital directly, he was told such agreements did not exist. He was then ushered into a emergency room, after being denied a wheelchair and told he had to limp there. After about a 30 minute wait he was seen by a doctor who said he probably had rhumatism. When he said he had sudden experienced the lose of use of his legs and that it had not happened before and asked for an xray to be done, the emergency room doctor said they did not have an xray machine in the hospital and told him to make and appointment with a rhumantism specialist and added that there are noe at the hospital. Before he left he was asked to pay his bill in full. It took him about thirty minutes to limp to the tram about 100 meters away with no help from the hospital staff.
The second visit that I witnessed was of a doctor of Italian nationality who had fallen and injured her arm. Although she was made to wait about thirty minutes to see an emergency room doctor, her arm was xrayed, she was given a cast, and she was told the bill would be sent to her Geneva address. This seemed to be the standard procedure for patients.
Of about fifty patients I witnessed leaving La Tour hospital, not one was asked to pay before leaving.
The only apparent difference between the two patients who I observed in more detà il was that one identified himself as a resident of a development country, the other did not. I very much appeared to me that the La Tour Hospital staff were acting in a discriminatory manner.
Although probably the best hospital in Geneva, I suspect that the staff at La Tour Hospital are discriminatory towards people who look like they may not be European. I based this view on two recent visits.
On the first visit the person, who looks white, when he told hospital staff that he was Palestinian was asked to first pay in advance of any treatment. When he asked to see a hospital administrator he was told that was regular practice. When he stated that his insurance company said they have an agreement with La Tour by which they will pay the hospital directly, he was told such agreements did not exist. He was then ushered into a emergency room, after being denied a wheelchair and told he had to limp there. After about a 30 minute wait he was seen by a doctor who said he probably had rhumatism. When he said he had sudden experienced the lose of use of his legs and that it had not happened before and asked for an xray to be done, the emergency room doctor said they did not have an xray machine in the hospital and told him to make and appointment with a rhumantism specialist and added that there are noe at the hospital. Before he left he was asked to pay his bill in full. It took him about thirty minutes to limp to the tram about 100 meters away with no help from the hospital staff.
The second visit that I witnessed was of a doctor of Italian nationality who had fallen and injured her arm. Although she was made to wait about thirty minutes to see an emergency room doctor, her arm was xrayed, she was given a cast, and she was told the bill would be sent to her Geneva address. This seemed to be the standard procedure for patients.
Of about fifty patients I witnessed leaving La Tour hospital, not one was asked to pay before leaving.
The only apparent difference between the two patients who I observed in more detà il was that one identified himself as a resident of a development country, the other did not. I very much appeared to me that the La Tour Hospital staff were acting in a discriminatory manner.
It's an excellent hospital. My boy wasn't born there, but we use La Tour for all our hospital needs and always had a good experience (if you can call any hospital visit "good"...)
It's an excellent hospital. My boy wasn't born there, but we use La Tour for all our hospital needs and always had a good experience (if you can call any hospital visit "good"...)
@ Curtis D
I think you will find the insurance issue was handled by “La Tour” in much the same way as it would have been by any other private clinic or even Geneva’s Cantonal. There are some countries that do not have reciprocal health care arrangements with Switzerland so the nationals of those countries are asked to provide written evidence of their insurance coverage
or pay cash on the spot. The same would apply if a Swiss national falls ill in those countries.
I remember when an Australian friend of mine, who had worked for many years as a WHO doctor in Africa, came to CH on a private visit with minimal travel insurance.
He went for a ride on a hired a bike but came a serious cropper when the front wheel got entangled with a tram rail. He was rushed to the Cantonal but, despite multiple serious injuries, he couldn’t be admitted without handing over CHF 10,000 there and then – which he didn’t have on him nor even back at the motel where he was staying
Luckily, he was able to phone a WHO colleague who immediately rushed from his home outside of Nyon, but he didn’t happen to have 10,000 francs in cash handy either.
Finally, after quite some discussion, and the verifications of the Nyon friend’s credentials and ability to stand guarantor (CD grade at WHO, length of residence in Vaud, etc.) the injured cyclist
was duly admitted and, it must be said, very well looked after.
However, it does go to show there are not always reciprocal health care arrangements between CH and every other country in the world. Indeed, it’s not so long ago that such arrangements didn’t exist between the UK and CH, and there were many instances when the services of then UK consulate here had to be enlisted.
Moreover, when I had a minor malaise in Turkey just some 6-7 years ago, my insurance coverage was checked by email before I could even be transported by ambulance from the hotel to the nearest clinic.
So what you observed may not have been racial discrimination but simply the application of a practice that applies in more circumstances than you might imagine. That said, my own observation is that while the actual medical care in CH is usually of a very high standard, there are still shortcoming in the way that procedures and other matters are explained to patients and/or their family ot close friends. A bon entendeur!
R
@ Curtis D
I think you will find the insurance issue was handled by “La Tour” in much the same way as it would have been by any other private clinic or even Geneva’s Cantonal. There are some countries that do not have reciprocal health care arrangements with Switzerland so the nationals of those countries are asked to provide written evidence of their insurance coverage
or pay cash on the spot. The same would apply if a Swiss national falls ill in those countries.
I remember when an Australian friend of mine, who had worked for many years as a WHO doctor in Africa, came to CH on a private visit with minimal travel insurance.
He went for a ride on a hired a bike but came a serious cropper when the front wheel got entangled with a tram rail. He was rushed to the Cantonal but, despite multiple serious injuries, he couldn’t be admitted without handing over CHF 10,000 there and then – which he didn’t have on him nor even back at the motel where he was staying
Luckily, he was able to phone a WHO colleague who immediately rushed from his home outside of Nyon, but he didn’t happen to have 10,000 francs in cash handy either.
Finally, after quite some discussion, and the verifications of the Nyon friend’s credentials and ability to stand guarantor (CD grade at WHO, length of residence in Vaud, etc.) the injured cyclist
was duly admitted and, it must be said, very well looked after.
However, it does go to show there are not always reciprocal health care arrangements between CH and every other country in the world. Indeed, it’s not so long ago that such arrangements didn’t exist between the UK and CH, and there were many instances when the services of then UK consulate here had to be enlisted.
Moreover, when I had a minor malaise in Turkey just some 6-7 years ago, my insurance coverage was checked by email before I could even be transported by ambulance from the hotel to the nearest clinic.
So what you observed may not have been racial discrimination but simply the application of a practice that applies in more circumstances than you might imagine. That said, my own observation is that while the actual medical care in CH is usually of a very high standard, there are still shortcoming in the way that procedures and other matters are explained to patients and/or their family ot close friends. A bon entendeur!
R
I was quiet happy with them Only Once a Stupide Nurse took away My Baby like a Potato bag and brought her in a room that was smelling cleanning products...I complained as some other moms did the same so I think she had to stop her work there..
I was quiet happy with them Only Once a Stupide Nurse took away My Baby like a Potato bag and brought her in a room that was smelling cleanning products...I complained as some other moms did the same so I think she had to stop her work there..
Dear Ritchie,
Thanks for your comments, but there are some discrepencies in what you suggest that still make me think that the La Tour Hospital staff were acting in a discriminatory manner.
First, the Palestinian not only showed them proof of his insurance, he had by telephone confirmed with his insurer that there was a the reciprocal agreement. La Tour Hospital refused to do their own confirmation and merely said no that it is "always the case" (to quot the administrator) that payment is requested in advance.
Second, in thirty years of visiting and accompanying people to visits at HUG, I have never seen any problem with reciprocal insurance arrangements. They accept them and the bill is paid by the insurer or they bill the patient afterwards. You are correct that private clinics are much worse, in part because they are often, in my experience, more worrried about profit than their patients. The apparent request for a guarantee by HUG in advance of emergency treatment of the insured cyclist was highly unethical, and according to Swiss lawyers, it may have been illegal. I hope your friend reported his treatment both to WHO and to the local prosecutor. I have made a note of it for my work and writing on the right to health.
Third, in about forty years of dealing with medical establishments in more than thirty countries, often as a lawyer, I have never once witnessed a request to pay for treatment in advance of the person being seen by a doctor or medical staff. I note you don't address this specifically, but I do hope you do not think this is how hospital's usually operate as your reply seems to suggest.
Again, I don't wish to berate La Tour. It is an excellent hospital and I know some its doctors personally who are among the the best experts in Europe in their respective fields. My complaint is about the administrators and the young emergency room doctor who acted in a apparently discriminatory manner. I don't even know their intentions for sure. Although I am more suspect about the administration staff intentions as they explained them in more detail, I could understand the emergency room doctor was just rushed and under the pressure of emergency room service. Nevertheless, it is not appropriate for her to tell patients outright lies, like they do not have an x-ray machine or specialists in Rheumatology...facts that I confirmed were lies with a doctor at the hospital that same day. In fact the more experienced doctor also found his colleagues' actions quite unusual and inappropriate. My note about La Tour is more to help the hospital improve its standards to ensure that its staff do not act in ways that appear to be discriminatory. This will help the hospital as well as the community it serves.
Finally, I know for experience that if a Swiss national falls ill in Palestine he or she will be treated in a hospital by doctors and staff without any mention of payment before the treatment takes place. He or she would be sent a bill after treatment, if there was not insurance that paid. In no case would they be asked for payment before treatment, if they were and this was overheard by police who guard the hospitals, they administrator or doctor could likely be arrested on the spot. Prehaps Palestinian hospitals are more fair and honest than their Swiss counterparts. If that is the case, maybe we should arrange a training programe for Swiss hospital staff in Palestine?
Dear Ritchie,
Thanks for your comments, but there are some discrepencies in what you suggest that still make me think that the La Tour Hospital staff were acting in a discriminatory manner.
First, the Palestinian not only showed them proof of his insurance, he had by telephone confirmed with his insurer that there was a the reciprocal agreement. La Tour Hospital refused to do their own confirmation and merely said no that it is "always the case" (to quot the administrator) that payment is requested in advance.
Second, in thirty years of visiting and accompanying people to visits at HUG, I have never seen any problem with reciprocal insurance arrangements. They accept them and the bill is paid by the insurer or they bill the patient afterwards. You are correct that private clinics are much worse, in part because they are often, in my experience, more worrried about profit than their patients. The apparent request for a guarantee by HUG in advance of emergency treatment of the insured cyclist was highly unethical, and according to Swiss lawyers, it may have been illegal. I hope your friend reported his treatment both to WHO and to the local prosecutor. I have made a note of it for my work and writing on the right to health.
Third, in about forty years of dealing with medical establishments in more than thirty countries, often as a lawyer, I have never once witnessed a request to pay for treatment in advance of the person being seen by a doctor or medical staff. I note you don't address this specifically, but I do hope you do not think this is how hospital's usually operate as your reply seems to suggest.
Again, I don't wish to berate La Tour. It is an excellent hospital and I know some its doctors personally who are among the the best experts in Europe in their respective fields. My complaint is about the administrators and the young emergency room doctor who acted in a apparently discriminatory manner. I don't even know their intentions for sure. Although I am more suspect about the administration staff intentions as they explained them in more detail, I could understand the emergency room doctor was just rushed and under the pressure of emergency room service. Nevertheless, it is not appropriate for her to tell patients outright lies, like they do not have an x-ray machine or specialists in Rheumatology...facts that I confirmed were lies with a doctor at the hospital that same day. In fact the more experienced doctor also found his colleagues' actions quite unusual and inappropriate. My note about La Tour is more to help the hospital improve its standards to ensure that its staff do not act in ways that appear to be discriminatory. This will help the hospital as well as the community it serves.
Finally, I know for experience that if a Swiss national falls ill in Palestine he or she will be treated in a hospital by doctors and staff without any mention of payment before the treatment takes place. He or she would be sent a bill after treatment, if there was not insurance that paid. In no case would they be asked for payment before treatment, if they were and this was overheard by police who guard the hospitals, they administrator or doctor could likely be arrested on the spot. Prehaps Palestinian hospitals are more fair and honest than their Swiss counterparts. If that is the case, maybe we should arrange a training programe for Swiss hospital staff in Palestine?
In response to the above... I was asked to front CHF4000 of an operation I had at HUG, even with proof of cover and letter to confirm. It has nothing to do with nationality, colour, race, language, it is a simple matter of business. As you say, for emergency cases it is different becuase they have a legal obligation to stabilise you, but for all other things they will ask you for payment and you will have to get the money back from your insurance.
Personally, I think it is fair enough as it just stops health tourism.
In response to the above... I was asked to front CHF4000 of an operation I had at HUG, even with proof of cover and letter to confirm. It has nothing to do with nationality, colour, race, language, it is a simple matter of business. As you say, for emergency cases it is different becuase they have a legal obligation to stabilise you, but for all other things they will ask you for payment and you will have to get the money back from your insurance.
Personally, I think it is fair enough as it just stops health tourism.
BTW, Rhumatism is not an emergency in terms of "accident and emergency" emergency, which is why I guess they asked him to pay up front.
BTW, Rhumatism is not an emergency in terms of "accident and emergency" emergency, which is why I guess they asked him to pay up front.
The doctor claimed that the man should see a rhumatism specialists based on a 30 second visual inspection, no xray, no other examination. The person had fallen in the tram as his legs just gave out from under him. The medical diagnosis was probably negligent, but that is another matter.
The doctor claimed that the man should see a rhumatism specialists based on a 30 second visual inspection, no xray, no other examination. The person had fallen in the tram as his legs just gave out from under him. The medical diagnosis was probably negligent, but that is another matter.
I was only speaking (as is clear from my post) about emergency care at the emergency room of La Tour. If your were asked up front to pay for emeregncy care before you received it and your di not report this illegal activity to the police, then you were very foolish and only help to encouage hospitals to undertake such illegal activity. No hospital should as for pre-payment of emergency care. Not only does it violate the human right to health care, but also Swiss law, according to Swiss lawyers.
Your defenses of La Tour sound oddly lik the typical defenses of discriminatory behavior. You suggest the facts are different than those described and then say well this is how it often works. I remember when I worked in South of the US this is how the KKK would try to justify their treatment of minorities. There was always and exception, there was never discrimination. It would serve the Swiss State and the Swiss people much more to look truthfully into their actions and correct them rather than merely try to deny them by changing the facts or making irrelevant comparisons to thigns that are comparable.
Again I repeat, Switzerland has much going for it in its democracy. It is one of the most well-run countries in Europe and it generally respects human rights. It is much more valuabel for it to look its shortfalls in the face and address them honesty rather than try to brush them under the rug. But I guess the choice is up to the Swiss people.
I was only speaking (as is clear from my post) about emergency care at the emergency room of La Tour. If your were asked up front to pay for emeregncy care before you received it and your di not report this illegal activity to the police, then you were very foolish and only help to encouage hospitals to undertake such illegal activity. No hospital should as for pre-payment of emergency care. Not only does it violate the human right to health care, but also Swiss law, according to Swiss lawyers.
Your defenses of La Tour sound oddly lik the typical defenses of discriminatory behavior. You suggest the facts are different than those described and then say well this is how it often works. I remember when I worked in South of the US this is how the KKK would try to justify their treatment of minorities. There was always and exception, there was never discrimination. It would serve the Swiss State and the Swiss people much more to look truthfully into their actions and correct them rather than merely try to deny them by changing the facts or making irrelevant comparisons to thigns that are comparable.
Again I repeat, Switzerland has much going for it in its democracy. It is one of the most well-run countries in Europe and it generally respects human rights. It is much more valuabel for it to look its shortfalls in the face and address them honesty rather than try to brush them under the rug. But I guess the choice is up to the Swiss people.
I agree that La Tour has some of the best doctors in Europe. Dr. Finn Mahler is on fo theleading sports medicine doctors in Europe. They even have a rhumatism specialists others treted by him have described as excellent. It is for that reason that the discrimination that I witnessed was so unfortunate and so different then what I have seen at other hospitals, including HUG, Sion, Leukerbad, and Zurich.
I don't know your nationality, but I hoep you woudl agree that askign someone to pay for medical services before they have received them o rare abe to receive them at the emergency unit of a hospital is unethical. In this case I described it was obviously linked temporally to the person being asked his nationality. And the action was confimed by several other La Tour hospital staff.
In any event, I will continue to obswrve the Hospital's practices as I will be accompanying different people there over the next few weeks and months when I am in Geneva to see if this was just an exceptional circumstance or a more common practice. Although even one instance of discrimination is not justified, it would at least show that they can learn from their errors.
I agree that La Tour has some of the best doctors in Europe. Dr. Finn Mahler is on fo theleading sports medicine doctors in Europe. They even have a rhumatism specialists others treted by him have described as excellent. It is for that reason that the discrimination that I witnessed was so unfortunate and so different then what I have seen at other hospitals, including HUG, Sion, Leukerbad, and Zurich.
I don't know your nationality, but I hoep you woudl agree that askign someone to pay for medical services before they have received them o rare abe to receive them at the emergency unit of a hospital is unethical. In this case I described it was obviously linked temporally to the person being asked his nationality. And the action was confimed by several other La Tour hospital staff.
In any event, I will continue to obswrve the Hospital's practices as I will be accompanying different people there over the next few weeks and months when I am in Geneva to see if this was just an exceptional circumstance or a more common practice. Although even one instance of discrimination is not justified, it would at least show that they can learn from their errors.
I am white, British etc... so I think you will find that the rule applies for everyone, not just minorities.
I am white, British etc... so I think you will find that the rule applies for everyone, not just minorities.
It is somewhat naive for a someone to think that discrimination did not happen to some else due to their quality as a minority or a foreigner because one also suffered poor treatment. It is more likely that you as a minority in Switzerland also suffered discrimination. In your case did the hospital ask you your nationality and then immediately respond to you by asking you to pay for treatment before you were treated? If they did please give the names of the people with whom who spoke and provide me a signed affidavit stating the facts you observed and I will personally ask the Geneva prosecutors office to pursue an investigation into discrimination by the hospital. I had thought that the apparent discrimination I witnessed was not usual, but maybe the problem is more widespread. I hope if you were discriminated against due to your nationality you will not keep silent. If you do, you do a disservice to yourself, the people the hospital serves, and even the hospital itself. No hospital should ask a patient to pay for services before they are rendered. If they do this in the a case of emergency treatment then they are likely violating the law.
It is somewhat naive for a someone to think that discrimination did not happen to some else due to their quality as a minority or a foreigner because one also suffered poor treatment. It is more likely that you as a minority in Switzerland also suffered discrimination. In your case did the hospital ask you your nationality and then immediately respond to you by asking you to pay for treatment before you were treated? If they did please give the names of the people with whom who spoke and provide me a signed affidavit stating the facts you observed and I will personally ask the Geneva prosecutors office to pursue an investigation into discrimination by the hospital. I had thought that the apparent discrimination I witnessed was not usual, but maybe the problem is more widespread. I hope if you were discriminated against due to your nationality you will not keep silent. If you do, you do a disservice to yourself, the people the hospital serves, and even the hospital itself. No hospital should ask a patient to pay for services before they are rendered. If they do this in the a case of emergency treatment then they are likely violating the law.
It is somewhat naive for a someone to think that discrimination did not happen to some else due to their quality as a minority or a foreigner because one also suffered poor treatment. It is more likely that you as a minority in Switzerland also suffered discrimination. In your case did the hospital ask you your nationality and then immediately respond to you by asking you to pay for treatment before you were treated? If they did please give the names of the people with whom who spoke and provide me a signed affidavit stating the facts you observed and I will personally ask the Geneva prosecutors office to pursue an investigation into discrimination by the hospital. I had thought that the apparent discrimination I witnessed was not usual, but maybe the problem is more widespread. I hope if you were discriminated against due to your nationality you will not keep silent. If you do, you do a disservice to yourself, the people the hospital serves, and even the hospital itself. No hospital should ask a patient to pay for services before they are rendered. If they do this in the a case of emergency treatment then they are likely violating the law.
Curtis:
I think drawing false conclusions.
Anyone who comes to the emergency is asked what their Swiss health insurance is. If they don't have Swiss health insurance, they're asked to prove they have some some of insurance that will pay for their treatment OR to prove they can pay the bill in cash. That applies to everyone, regardless of skin color or nationality or hostpital.
My mum (who is white) went to the emergency of Grangettes a few years ago. Once it becamse clear she doesn't have Swiss insurance, she was told she'll have to either pay cash for the treatment, or prove she has another insurance who will cover her cost.
So it's not racism, but just the law. You may like it or not, but conclusing a specific hospital is racist cos it applies the law is not the right conclusion.
Curtis:
I think drawing false conclusions.
Anyone who comes to the emergency is asked what their Swiss health insurance is. If they don't have Swiss health insurance, they're asked to prove they have some some of insurance that will pay for their treatment OR to prove they can pay the bill in cash. That applies to everyone, regardless of skin color or nationality or hostpital.
My mum (who is white) went to the emergency of Grangettes a few years ago. Once it becamse clear she doesn't have Swiss insurance, she was told she'll have to either pay cash for the treatment, or prove she has another insurance who will cover her cost.
So it's not racism, but just the law. You may like it or not, but conclusing a specific hospital is racist cos it applies the law is not the right conclusion.
I was born there. Take it as an omen or a warning ;-).
I think your personal attacks are unfortunate. It usually serves a forum better if you engage in discussion on the substantive matters being discussed.
If you work at the La Tour hospital or know someone that does, I apologize if you are offended. My object is not to offend you or the hospital, but to try to redress what in my quite considerable experience seemed to be a case of discrimination by La Tour Hospital staff.
Nothing that any other forum post says refutes what I am suggesting might be the case. Moreover, your mere suggestion that you received good treatment at La Tour, as I am sure most people do, does not mean that what I witnessed was not discrimination.
Admittedly whenever I hear a a service lender ask for somone's nationality and then react in a way that appears to be much different than the way they react to others, makes me suspcious. This is perhaps the reaction of a human rights lawyer, but I find it somewhat unfortunate that you believe that a critical reaction to apparent discrimination is misleading in any way. I would hope you and even the hospital would encourage people to protest such action by a hospital authority. Do think that it is normal for a hospital to ask someone to pay for their emergency treatment in advance (when they do not usually ask others in similarly situated positions to do so), to do so after the person has been asked his nationality, and to ignore the fact that the person has health insurance that claims it has a reciprocal agreement with the hospital without checking with the insurance company that has been clearly identified with contact information. In fact do you think it is ever okay for a hospital to deny someone proper emergency medical care and to send them away after lying to them about the hospital facilities and the doctors who are at the hospital? I don't, and I hope you do not either.
I have great respect for the Swiss ad for you Nir, but I also have great concern about discrimination wherever it takes place. I hope you might also in the future and that you might also encourage such concern.
I think your personal attacks are unfortunate. It usually serves a forum better if you engage in discussion on the substantive matters being discussed.
If you work at the La Tour hospital or know someone that does, I apologize if you are offended. My object is not to offend you or the hospital, but to try to redress what in my quite considerable experience seemed to be a case of discrimination by La Tour Hospital staff.
Nothing that any other forum post says refutes what I am suggesting might be the case. Moreover, your mere suggestion that you received good treatment at La Tour, as I am sure most people do, does not mean that what I witnessed was not discrimination.
Admittedly whenever I hear a a service lender ask for somone's nationality and then react in a way that appears to be much different than the way they react to others, makes me suspcious. This is perhaps the reaction of a human rights lawyer, but I find it somewhat unfortunate that you believe that a critical reaction to apparent discrimination is misleading in any way. I would hope you and even the hospital would encourage people to protest such action by a hospital authority. Do think that it is normal for a hospital to ask someone to pay for their emergency treatment in advance (when they do not usually ask others in similarly situated positions to do so), to do so after the person has been asked his nationality, and to ignore the fact that the person has health insurance that claims it has a reciprocal agreement with the hospital without checking with the insurance company that has been clearly identified with contact information. In fact do you think it is ever okay for a hospital to deny someone proper emergency medical care and to send them away after lying to them about the hospital facilities and the doctors who are at the hospital? I don't, and I hope you do not either.
I have great respect for the Swiss ad for you Nir, but I also have great concern about discrimination wherever it takes place. I hope you might also in the future and that you might also encourage such concern.
@ Curtis D
Would it be impertinent to mention that this thread was originally concerned with the child birth facilities at “La Ttour” in 2008, so is this present lengthy and tedious ado really relevant?
R.
@ Curtis D
Would it be impertinent to mention that this thread was originally concerned with the child birth facilities at “La Ttour” in 2008, so is this present lengthy and tedious ado really relevant?
R.
I think your personal attacks are unfortunate. It usually serves a forum better if you engage in discussion on the substantive matters being discussed.
If you work at the La Tour hospital or know someone that does, I apologize if you are offended. My object is not to offend you or the hospital, but to try to redress what in my quite considerable experience seemed to be a case of discrimination by La Tour Hospital staff.
Nothing that any other forum post says refutes what I am suggesting might be the case. Moreover, your mere suggestion that you received good treatment at La Tour, as I am sure most people do, does not mean that what I witnessed was not discrimination.
Admittedly whenever I hear a a service lender ask for somone's nationality and then react in a way that appears to be much different than the way they react to others, makes me suspcious. This is perhaps the reaction of a human rights lawyer, but I find it somewhat unfortunate that you believe that a critical reaction to apparent discrimination is misleading in any way. I would hope you and even the hospital would encourage people to protest such action by a hospital authority. Do think that it is normal for a hospital to ask someone to pay for their emergency treatment in advance (when they do not usually ask others in similarly situated positions to do so), to do so after the person has been asked his nationality, and to ignore the fact that the person has health insurance that claims it has a reciprocal agreement with the hospital without checking with the insurance company that has been clearly identified with contact information. In fact do you think it is ever okay for a hospital to deny someone proper emergency medical care and to send them away after lying to them about the hospital facilities and the doctors who are at the hospital? I don't, and I hope you do not either.
I have great respect for the Swiss ad for you Nir, but I also have great concern about discrimination wherever it takes place. I hope you might also in the future and that you might also encourage such concern.
Curtis:
I don't know anyone working at La Tour. I just think you took a process that happens in every hospital in CH daily cos that's the law, and you concluded that the people in La Tour are racist. That gives the readers of this thread the wrong info. And when you're challenged on it, you imply that other people on this thread don't care about racism like you do....Come on man.
However, I do apologise for making a personal statement about you in my previous post, that was wrong and out of line. I removed that statement.
Nir
Curtis:
I don't know anyone working at La Tour. I just think you took a process that happens in every hospital in CH daily cos that's the law, and you concluded that the people in La Tour are racist. That gives the readers of this thread the wrong info. And when you're challenged on it, you imply that other people on this thread don't care about racism like you do....Come on man.
However, I do apologise for making a personal statement about you in my previous post, that was wrong and out of line. I removed that statement.
Nir
"Do think that it is normal for a hospital to ask someone to pay for their emergency treatment in advance (when they do not usually ask others in similarly situated positions to do so)"
As previously mentionned, they do. That happened to a expat Swiss friend of mine that injured himself while visiting its parents.
Of course we are not talking about extremely urgent situations where the hospital HAS to treat the patient anyway.
"to ignore the fact that the person has health insurance that claims it has a reciprocal agreement with the hospital without checking with the insurance company that has been clearly identified with contact information."
You don't know that, it's especially the case if the health insurance is not a LAMAL insurance.
I'm not saying there is no discrimination in this particular case you're describing those two points do not strike me as abnormal in the swiss health system. We all agree (swiss included) that it has its flaws, like any other system in the world, though.
"Do think that it is normal for a hospital to ask someone to pay for their emergency treatment in advance (when they do not usually ask others in similarly situated positions to do so)"
As previously mentionned, they do. That happened to a expat Swiss friend of mine that injured himself while visiting its parents.
Of course we are not talking about extremely urgent situations where the hospital HAS to treat the patient anyway.
"to ignore the fact that the person has health insurance that claims it has a reciprocal agreement with the hospital without checking with the insurance company that has been clearly identified with contact information."
You don't know that, it's especially the case if the health insurance is not a LAMAL insurance.
I'm not saying there is no discrimination in this particular case you're describing those two points do not strike me as abnormal in the swiss health system. We all agree (swiss included) that it has its flaws, like any other system in the world, though.
Dr. Doebbler wrote: "to ignore the fact that the person has health insurance that claims it has a reciprocal agreement with the hospital without checking with the insurance company that has been clearly identified with contact information."
You responded: "You don't know that, it's especially the case if the health insurance is not a LAMAL insurance."
Yes, we do know that. The person concerned had adequate LAMaL health insurance.
Dr. Doebbler wrote: "to ignore the fact that the person has health insurance that claims it has a reciprocal agreement with the hospital without checking with the insurance company that has been clearly identified with contact information."
You responded: "You don't know that, it's especially the case if the health insurance is not a LAMAL insurance."
Yes, we do know that. The person concerned had adequate LAMaL health insurance.
Dear Nir,
Dr. Doebbler is not offfended by your comments, but merely found them unfortunate. Neither did he intend to show that you don't care about discrimination as much as he does, but in fact to hope (as he expressly said) that you do. As a personal note as his colleague (posting here with his permission) you might want to look at the couple of dozen cases he has brought against various forms of discriminatory practices in several States before United Nations mechanisms, the African Commission on Human nd Peoples' rights, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights or several national courts or even read his book for 2007 entitled The Principle of Non-Discrimination...before you try to compare yourself to his work on human rights issues.
Sincerely,
Tomas
Dear Nir,
Dr. Doebbler is not offfended by your comments, but merely found them unfortunate. Neither did he intend to show that you don't care about discrimination as much as he does, but in fact to hope (as he expressly said) that you do. As a personal note as his colleague (posting here with his permission) you might want to look at the couple of dozen cases he has brought against various forms of discriminatory practices in several States before United Nations mechanisms, the African Commission on Human nd Peoples' rights, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights or several national courts or even read his book for 2007 entitled The Principle of Non-Discrimination...before you try to compare yourself to his work on human rights issues.
Sincerely,
Tomas
Dear Nir,
Dr. Doebbler is not offfended by your comments, but merely found them unfortunate. Neither did he intend to show that you don't care about discrimination as much as he does, but in fact to hope (as he expressly said) that you do. As a personal note as his colleague (posting here with his permission) you might want to look at the couple of dozen cases he has brought against various forms of discriminatory practices in several States before United Nations mechanisms, the African Commission on Human nd Peoples' rights, the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights or several national courts or even read his book for 2007 entitled The Principle of Non-Discrimination...before you try to compare yourself to his work on human rights issues.
Sincerely,
Tomas
so now Curtis has his assistant clarifying his posts on the forums? That's a 1st on glocals...(-;
so now Curtis has his assistant clarifying his posts on the forums? That's a 1st on glocals...(-;
so now Curtis has his assistant clarifying his posts on the forums? That's a 1st on glocals...(-;
And sounds as though it may not be the last either.
Mr Von Throbber has the following comment to make:
"Anyway, so having veered off the track like a monkey in a racing car with Alzheimers, the general consensus is Hôptial de la Tour is a good place to give birth."
Hannah Brass
P.A. to Rich Von Throbber
Mr Von Throbber has the following comment to make:
"Anyway, so having veered off the track like a monkey in a racing car with Alzheimers, the general consensus is Hôptial de la Tour is a good place to give birth."
Hannah Brass
P.A. to Rich Von Throbber
Mr Von Throbber has the following comment to make:
"Anyway, so having veered off the track like a monkey in a racing car with Alzheimers, the general consensus is Hôptial de la Tour is a good place to give birth."
Hannah Brass
P.A. to Rich Von Throbber
When my PA comes back from lunch, I'll ask her to post something in my name. I'm starting to like this PA thing.
When my PA comes back from lunch, I'll ask her to post something in my name. I'm starting to like this PA thing.
@ Curtis
Where are you? We haven’t heard from you directly all day!
Do hope you’re not stuck in an admissions unit, arguing the toss as to whether your insurance will cover the cost of emergency treatment!
“Worried” R.
@ Curtis
Where are you? We haven’t heard from you directly all day!
Do hope you’re not stuck in an admissions unit, arguing the toss as to whether your insurance will cover the cost of emergency treatment!
“Worried” R.
