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question regarding regie

hello,


Somebody told me that if you subrent from somebody more than a year, there is a law which give you the possibility to take over the flat from teh Regie (without that other people can go for the appartment) - is that true ?

The text you are quoting:

hello,


Somebody told me that if you subrent from somebody more than a year, there is a law which give you the possibility to take over the flat from teh Regie (without that other people can go for the appartment) - is that true ?


xdm001Aug 17, 2010 @ 16:17
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Re: question regarding regie
Post 1

I believe this is correct, although most regies will try to fight it . I would recommend joining ASLOCA for 50 francs.  They can instruct you how to go about it.


Here is the Swiss federal law, in french . It basically says regie cannot refuse unless there is a really good reason, such as damage to the apartment, or the that the original renter has been wildly overcharging you for the sublet.


RS 220 Art. 263


L. Transfert du bail à un tiers


1 Le locataire d’un local commercial peut transférer son bail à un tiers avec le consentement écrit du bailleur.


2 Le bailleur ne peut refuser son consentement que pour de justes motifs.


3 Si le bailleur donne son consentement, le tiers est subrogé au locataire.


4 Le locataire est libéré de ses obligations envers le bailleur. Il répond toutefois solidairement avec le tiers jusqu’à l’expiration de la durée du bail ou la résiliation de celui-ci selon le contrat ou la loi mais, dans tous les cas, pour deux ans au plus.   RS 220 Loi fédérale complétant le Code civil Suisse   


et


Art. 273b


E. Sous-location


1 Les dispositions du présent chapitre s’appliquent à la sous-location jusqu’à l’extinction du bail principal. La prolongation n’est possible que pour la durée du bail principal.


2 Lorsque la sous-location a pour but principal d’éluder les dispositions sur la protection contre le congé, le sous-locataire bénéficie de cette protection sans égard au bail principal. Si ce dernier est résilié, le bailleur principal est subrogé au sous-bailleur dans le contrat avec le sous-locataire.


 

The text you are quoting:

I believe this is correct, although most regies will try to fight it . I would recommend joining ASLOCA for 50 francs.  They can instruct you how to go about it.


Here is the Swiss federal law, in french . It basically says regie cannot refuse unless there is a really good reason, such as damage to the apartment, or the that the original renter has been wildly overcharging you for the sublet.


RS 220 Art. 263


L. Transfert du bail à un tiers


1 Le locataire d’un local commercial peut transférer son bail à un tiers avec le consentement écrit du bailleur.


2 Le bailleur ne peut refuser son consentement que pour de justes motifs.


3 Si le bailleur donne son consentement, le tiers est subrogé au locataire.


4 Le locataire est libéré de ses obligations envers le bailleur. Il répond toutefois solidairement avec le tiers jusqu’à l’expiration de la durée du bail ou la résiliation de celui-ci selon le contrat ou la loi mais, dans tous les cas, pour deux ans au plus.   RS 220 Loi fédérale complétant le Code civil Suisse   


et


Art. 273b


E. Sous-location


1 Les dispositions du présent chapitre s’appliquent à la sous-location jusqu’à l’extinction du bail principal. La prolongation n’est possible que pour la durée du bail principal.


2 Lorsque la sous-location a pour but principal d’éluder les dispositions sur la protection contre le congé, le sous-locataire bénéficie de cette protection sans égard au bail principal. Si ce dernier est résilié, le bailleur principal est subrogé au sous-bailleur dans le contrat avec le sous-locataire.


 


Translator, Aug 18, 2010 @ 14:09
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Re: question regarding regie
Post 2

I believe this is correct, although most regies will try to fight it . I would recommend joining ASLOCA for 50 francs.  They can instruct you how to go about it.

Here is the Swiss federal law, in french . It basically says regie cannot refuse unless there is a really good reason, such as damage to the apartment, or the that the original renter has been wildly overcharging you for the sublet.

RS 220 Art. 263

L. Transfert du bail à un tiers

1 Le locataire d’un local commercial peut transférer son bail à un tiers avec le consentement écrit du bailleur.

2 Le bailleur ne peut refuser son consentement que pour de justes motifs.

3 Si le bailleur donne son consentement, le tiers est subrogé au locataire.

4 Le locataire est libéré de ses obligations envers le bailleur. Il répond toutefois solidairement avec le tiers jusqu’à l’expiration de la durée du bail ou la résiliation de celui-ci selon le contrat ou la loi mais, dans tous les cas, pour deux ans au plus.   RS 220 Loi fédérale complétant le Code civil Suisse   

et

Art. 273b

E. Sous-location

1 Les dispositions du présent chapitre s’appliquent à la sous-location jusqu’à l’extinction du bail principal. La prolongation n’est possible que pour la durée du bail principal.

2 Lorsque la sous-location a pour but principal d’éluder les dispositions sur la protection contre le congé, le sous-locataire bénéficie de cette protection sans égard au bail principal. Si ce dernier est résilié, le bailleur principal est subrogé au sous-bailleur dans le contrat avec le sous-locataire.

 


Aug 18, 10 14:09

I agree that joining ASLOCA and getting professional advice is the best option. Interpreting the law is always tricky, specially being an expat, as we all tend to think that in general things works in a similar way as in our country of origin.


To my understaning:


- paragraphs: "L. Transfert du bail à un tiers" don't mention in any moment the subletter (the person who takes the sublet).


- paragraphs "E. Sous-location" state that


* the sublet agreement may not exceed the main contract


* in case the main contract is cancelled before the end of the sublet agreement, the subletter will be allowed to stay until the end of the sublet agreement


Nothing really states that once the main contract is due, the subletter will have priority to continue; but it doesn't state the opposite :)


Now my 2 cents. If the regie agrees directly (to a certain subletter)  or indirectly (they agree to any subletter), I could only thing of the work/residence permit type or its expiry date as a proper reason to reject the subletter to take over the main contract.


If you're really intested, you should consider spending some money in getting proper legal advice from an expert in Swiss and Genevan legislation

The text you are quoting:

I agree that joining ASLOCA and getting professional advice is the best option. Interpreting the law is always tricky, specially being an expat, as we all tend to think that in general things works in a similar way as in our country of origin.


To my understaning:


- paragraphs: "L. Transfert du bail à un tiers" don't mention in any moment the subletter (the person who takes the sublet).


- paragraphs "E. Sous-location" state that


* the sublet agreement may not exceed the main contract


* in case the main contract is cancelled before the end of the sublet agreement, the subletter will be allowed to stay until the end of the sublet agreement


Nothing really states that once the main contract is due, the subletter will have priority to continue; but it doesn't state the opposite :)


Now my 2 cents. If the regie agrees directly (to a certain subletter)  or indirectly (they agree to any subletter), I could only thing of the work/residence permit type or its expiry date as a proper reason to reject the subletter to take over the main contract.


If you're really intested, you should consider spending some money in getting proper legal advice from an expert in Swiss and Genevan legislation


Pasqual E, Aug 18, 2010 @ 16:25
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Re: question regarding regie
Post 3

I apologise for the misspellings ... all day long switching languages ...

The text you are quoting:

I apologise for the misspellings ... all day long switching languages ...


Pasqual E, Aug 18, 2010 @ 16:58
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Re: question regarding regie
Post 4

ASLOCA lawyers are generally extremely qualified.  The organization has challenged and won numereous initiatives regarding Swiss housing law.  They have lawyers in all parts of the country. One of their main aims is to protect the renter against unreasonable and/or abusive regies and property owners. 


I quoted the law simply for reference rather than interpretation  Being a permanent resident who has lived here for a little while and having quite a few contacts in the Swiss legal community, I feel entirely comfortable recommending ASLOCA.  If you go to a law firm, you will probably spend hundreds of francs for a single answer, rather than receiving excellent consumer protection for a mere 50 francs.


As Justdoit stated, many problems come from undeclared sublets.  I've just gone through the process of getting a sublet agreed to by a regie.  Ability to pay, proof of proper residency permit, and insurance are the main issues that arise. 

The text you are quoting:

ASLOCA lawyers are generally extremely qualified.  The organization has challenged and won numereous initiatives regarding Swiss housing law.  They have lawyers in all parts of the country. One of their main aims is to protect the renter against unreasonable and/or abusive regies and property owners. 


I quoted the law simply for reference rather than interpretation  Being a permanent resident who has lived here for a little while and having quite a few contacts in the Swiss legal community, I feel entirely comfortable recommending ASLOCA.  If you go to a law firm, you will probably spend hundreds of francs for a single answer, rather than receiving excellent consumer protection for a mere 50 francs.


As Justdoit stated, many problems come from undeclared sublets.  I've just gone through the process of getting a sublet agreed to by a regie.  Ability to pay, proof of proper residency permit, and insurance are the main issues that arise. 


Translator, Aug 18, 2010 @ 17:27
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Re: question regarding regie
Post 5

Translator, the first article that you quoted concens commercial leases, which have different rules ! It doesn't apply to housing leases

The text you are quoting:

Translator, the first article that you quoted concens commercial leases, which have different rules ! It doesn't apply to housing leases


Bustan_A, Aug 18, 2010 @ 20:53
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Re: question regarding regie
Post 6

I will check it again!  I got it from the Swiss Federal Office of Logement site!  Yell

The text you are quoting:

I will check it again!  I got it from the Swiss Federal Office of Logement site!  Yell


Translator, Aug 18, 2010 @ 21:39
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Post 7

But the ASLOCA point is 100% correct.....Kiss

The text you are quoting:

But the ASLOCA point is 100% correct.....Kiss


Translator, Aug 18, 2010 @ 21:56
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