Login or Sign Up
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Global Forums > General > Job adverts on glocals that pay a pitifully low hourly rate
 
Only members can see photos
Only members can see names and photos
Job adverts on glocals that pay a pitifully low hourly rate

Hi everyone


I've been lurking here for nearly seven years now and, when I first arrived in Geneva in 2011, I got friendly with my neighbour who said if I needed a good cleaner he'd gladly recommend his.  She was being paid 25 chf an hour.


That was seven years ago, and four years ago Switzerland voted no to implementing a minimum hourly wage of 22 chf per hour.


We all know how expensive it is to live, rent, buy food etc here in Geneva, so why do some members think that it's acceptable to post adverts (usually under jobs or professional services) expecting people to work for an hourly rate that is less than 20 chf?  Would THEY be happy to accept a job for that rate?


I live in a big building that is well known for being 'posh.' Yes, it's me and my family that lower the tone of the place, but it makes me sad to see maids, cleaners and nannies that either creep in to start work at 7am or are forced to live in, work very long hours and still make a pittance.  It makes me angry that people who live in areas such as the Old Town, Chambesy or UN precinct think that while they can work at their high-paying jobs, they'll only offer a tiny hourly rate for someone to pick up their kid(s) from school, cook their meal, teach them French, help with homework, do the cleaning, take them to music lessons etc. Don't they have any feelings at all for the person who is not earning enough per hour to afford to rent anywhere in Geneva...?


My 17 year old daughter has regular babysitting jobs that offer her a better hourly rate for just sitting in the house while the kids are sleeping and the parents are out at dinner than some of the jobs on offer here.  She says that the sites she uses for babysitting and petsitting (I'll try and find the links tomorrow when she's awake) even suggest hourly rates so that the babysitter and parent know what the fair rate is.


Am I being too naive here, or should glocals also perhaps take a look at each job and check that the rate on offer (which should be stated clearly in each advert) is a fair one?


I'd love to hear what the rest of you think.


Cheers and hope you all have a nice weekend,


Kath  

The text you are quoting:

Hi everyone


I've been lurking here for nearly seven years now and, when I first arrived in Geneva in 2011, I got friendly with my neighbour who said if I needed a good cleaner he'd gladly recommend his.  She was being paid 25 chf an hour.


That was seven years ago, and four years ago Switzerland voted no to implementing a minimum hourly wage of 22 chf per hour.


We all know how expensive it is to live, rent, buy food etc here in Geneva, so why do some members think that it's acceptable to post adverts (usually under jobs or professional services) expecting people to work for an hourly rate that is less than 20 chf?  Would THEY be happy to accept a job for that rate?


I live in a big building that is well known for being 'posh.' Yes, it's me and my family that lower the tone of the place, but it makes me sad to see maids, cleaners and nannies that either creep in to start work at 7am or are forced to live in, work very long hours and still make a pittance.  It makes me angry that people who live in areas such as the Old Town, Chambesy or UN precinct think that while they can work at their high-paying jobs, they'll only offer a tiny hourly rate for someone to pick up their kid(s) from school, cook their meal, teach them French, help with homework, do the cleaning, take them to music lessons etc. Don't they have any feelings at all for the person who is not earning enough per hour to afford to rent anywhere in Geneva...?


My 17 year old daughter has regular babysitting jobs that offer her a better hourly rate for just sitting in the house while the kids are sleeping and the parents are out at dinner than some of the jobs on offer here.  She says that the sites she uses for babysitting and petsitting (I'll try and find the links tomorrow when she's awake) even suggest hourly rates so that the babysitter and parent know what the fair rate is.


Am I being too naive here, or should glocals also perhaps take a look at each job and check that the rate on offer (which should be stated clearly in each advert) is a fair one?


I'd love to hear what the rest of you think.


Cheers and hope you all have a nice weekend,


Kath  


katherine LApr 13, 2018 @ 22:32
Your Reply:
Reply  Reply With Quote  Thank Poster
! Report to Admin
 
3 Replies | 473 Views      |  Send to friend
 
Only members can see photos
Only members can see names and photos
Re: Job adverts on glocals that pay a pitifully low hourly rate
Post 1

It may be that some of these exploited cleaners/babysitters/nannies/etc. are actually working illegally and are therefore so desperate for money to support themselves in Geneva that they are willing to do this kind of work for a pittance. It is a question of supply and demand of course. Seven years ago, a friend travelled a couple of times per week from here {Evian} to Lausanne on the boat, and was earning 30.-- at that time.


But then going off on another tangent, I receive a very small pension from the Swiss Government for the 6 years worked in Swizzle {a long time ago now}. The monthly sum was first paid 11 years ago at 158.-- but now, 11 years later, it has been raised to the incredibly mean amount of 160.-- Two Francs in all that time! Mean bunch the Swiss are sometimes! Don't tell me inflation does not exist there too. I regularly buy Floccons de Millet in Co-Op. Within 5 years the price has gone up from 3.40, through 3.70 to the present day price of 3.95. Would that my penion rose by that same percentage!

The text you are quoting:

It may be that some of these exploited cleaners/babysitters/nannies/etc. are actually working illegally and are therefore so desperate for money to support themselves in Geneva that they are willing to do this kind of work for a pittance. It is a question of supply and demand of course. Seven years ago, a friend travelled a couple of times per week from here {Evian} to Lausanne on the boat, and was earning 30.-- at that time.


But then going off on another tangent, I receive a very small pension from the Swiss Government for the 6 years worked in Swizzle {a long time ago now}. The monthly sum was first paid 11 years ago at 158.-- but now, 11 years later, it has been raised to the incredibly mean amount of 160.-- Two Francs in all that time! Mean bunch the Swiss are sometimes! Don't tell me inflation does not exist there too. I regularly buy Floccons de Millet in Co-Op. Within 5 years the price has gone up from 3.40, through 3.70 to the present day price of 3.95. Would that my penion rose by that same percentage!


sheila c, Apr 14, 2018 @ 13:10
Your Reply:
Reply  Reply With Quote  Thank Poster
! Report to Admin
Only members can see photos
Only members can see names and photos
Re: Job adverts on glocals that pay a pitifully low hourly rate
Post 2

Hi Katherine,


What you are pointing out at is very interesting as I have noticed the same thing, be it coming from strangers or even friends. Everyone wants the best at the cheapest price and would not accept it if offered to them. Interestingly enough, it is as if they wanted to shop for Waitrose products but at Lidl prices.


I was having a smililar discussion with a friend recently, and it applies to a lot of people. For example, they are ready to spend say chf500.-/2 pax for a luxury surrounding and "low" quality treatment however would not spend something like say chf150.- for a proper treatment that is not based in a 5* place.


 


At the end of the day, I believe, each and everyone makes their choices, and it is fair enough I guess. It is like buying a copy item of a luxury brand, show off and then complain that the price of the authentic item is not affordable when most people now own the latest technology, buys organic food, travels regularly to exotic places, etc (not saying it is a general thing, of course, not everyone can afford that!). Each person has got their priority. Some people prefer having the latest iphone and remain unwell.
It is actually interesting, as those who want to redo the whole "market" business in whichever field, are the ones who do not want to "spend" the money ;-). Nore sure they realise they are contraditing themselves? (I could be wrong).


 


Having said all this, I wish everyone a very happy Sunny Saturday!

The text you are quoting:

Hi Katherine,


What you are pointing out at is very interesting as I have noticed the same thing, be it coming from strangers or even friends. Everyone wants the best at the cheapest price and would not accept it if offered to them. Interestingly enough, it is as if they wanted to shop for Waitrose products but at Lidl prices.


I was having a smililar discussion with a friend recently, and it applies to a lot of people. For example, they are ready to spend say chf500.-/2 pax for a luxury surrounding and "low" quality treatment however would not spend something like say chf150.- for a proper treatment that is not based in a 5* place.


 


At the end of the day, I believe, each and everyone makes their choices, and it is fair enough I guess. It is like buying a copy item of a luxury brand, show off and then complain that the price of the authentic item is not affordable when most people now own the latest technology, buys organic food, travels regularly to exotic places, etc (not saying it is a general thing, of course, not everyone can afford that!). Each person has got their priority. Some people prefer having the latest iphone and remain unwell.
It is actually interesting, as those who want to redo the whole "market" business in whichever field, are the ones who do not want to "spend" the money ;-). Nore sure they realise they are contraditing themselves? (I could be wrong).


 


Having said all this, I wish everyone a very happy Sunny Saturday!


TreeOf Life, Apr 14, 2018 @ 13:28
Your Reply:
Reply  Reply With Quote  Thank Poster
! Report to Admin
Only members can see photos
Only members can see names and photos
Re: Job adverts on glocals that pay a pitifully low hourly rate
Post 3

I think the point Katherine made about how Glocals as a platform, enables this kind of practice, by allowing job adverts that 'pay a pittance', as she put  it, to be posted in the Classifieds. If we are OK with this kind a liberal and unfair state of affairs in the the glocals community, 


I think it's a very interesting question because it goes beyond questioning our choices and attitudes as consumers. It questions our role in society and local community both in the real and the virtual sphere. Glocals is a blend of both and has an impact in our lives in Switzerland as it helps us make sense of some Swiss laws and daily life, find new friends, activities, sell and buy furniture, share opinions and information in the forum etc. Personally, as a member of the glocal community for 10 years I have  used all its features, including finding work and accomodation.


We all contribute to the content in this platform. Glocals is allof us, its members. Do we turn a blind eye to mean employers who use this platform to advertise jobs with exploitative low rates? Maybe we do turn a bilind eye to many things that are wrong in our world for different reasons.


I share Katherine concerns, which are of a moral or ethical nature but I am not 100%  sure that banning ads and 'policing'the Classifieds is ideal because maybe some employers really can't offer more than 20 francs per hour and maybe there are people who are more than happy to accept that rate if it suits them and by vetoeing such ads they'd both be deprived of an opportunity to find each other.


I don't know, I think that business strategy has become all about cost benefit and undercutting prices has a high human cost i.e. low ages and social inequality. Are we as consumers responsible for this situation? I think we have our share of responsability, yes. The important question is: Are we prepared to opt out of 'low cost - high value' consumerism? Can we all afford to pay the fair rate and if not, can we go without the low cost alternative? 


Is it a good thing to have the freedom to chose low cost (clothes, food, flights etc) and offer under the market rates and take them or leave them as you wish? Yes and No. We have the freedom of choice as consumers and the responsability for its consequences as citizens. Glocals is based in Switzerland a democratic country with a very liberal economy. Glocals serves a community of expats and locals as a platform for us, therefore it reflects both thecountry and the community, hence the relative freedom to post comments, activities and ads. IMO it makes no sense for glocals to censor those ads. Glocals role is not to police the platform but to assure  members use the platform respecting the rules we all agreed to when we signed up. I think it is fine as it is. At the same time, it makes total sense for us as members of the community and users of this platform to raise awareness about issues and exchange our views and share our opinions about the role we all play by making choices as employers, employess and consumers. This is what the forum is for. 

The text you are quoting:

I think the point Katherine made about how Glocals as a platform, enables this kind of practice, by allowing job adverts that 'pay a pittance', as she put  it, to be posted in the Classifieds. If we are OK with this kind a liberal and unfair state of affairs in the the glocals community, 


I think it's a very interesting question because it goes beyond questioning our choices and attitudes as consumers. It questions our role in society and local community both in the real and the virtual sphere. Glocals is a blend of both and has an impact in our lives in Switzerland as it helps us make sense of some Swiss laws and daily life, find new friends, activities, sell and buy furniture, share opinions and information in the forum etc. Personally, as a member of the glocal community for 10 years I have  used all its features, including finding work and accomodation.


We all contribute to the content in this platform. Glocals is allof us, its members. Do we turn a blind eye to mean employers who use this platform to advertise jobs with exploitative low rates? Maybe we do turn a bilind eye to many things that are wrong in our world for different reasons.


I share Katherine concerns, which are of a moral or ethical nature but I am not 100%  sure that banning ads and 'policing'the Classifieds is ideal because maybe some employers really can't offer more than 20 francs per hour and maybe there are people who are more than happy to accept that rate if it suits them and by vetoeing such ads they'd both be deprived of an opportunity to find each other.


I don't know, I think that business strategy has become all about cost benefit and undercutting prices has a high human cost i.e. low ages and social inequality. Are we as consumers responsible for this situation? I think we have our share of responsability, yes. The important question is: Are we prepared to opt out of 'low cost - high value' consumerism? Can we all afford to pay the fair rate and if not, can we go without the low cost alternative? 


Is it a good thing to have the freedom to chose low cost (clothes, food, flights etc) and offer under the market rates and take them or leave them as you wish? Yes and No. We have the freedom of choice as consumers and the responsability for its consequences as citizens. Glocals is based in Switzerland a democratic country with a very liberal economy. Glocals serves a community of expats and locals as a platform for us, therefore it reflects both thecountry and the community, hence the relative freedom to post comments, activities and ads. IMO it makes no sense for glocals to censor those ads. Glocals role is not to police the platform but to assure  members use the platform respecting the rules we all agreed to when we signed up. I think it is fine as it is. At the same time, it makes total sense for us as members of the community and users of this platform to raise awareness about issues and exchange our views and share our opinions about the role we all play by making choices as employers, employess and consumers. This is what the forum is for. 


robi, Apr 15, 2018 @ 09:12
Your Reply:
Reply  Reply With Quote  Thank Poster
! Report to Admin
3 Replies | 473 Views      |  Send to friend
 
 
 
Feedback Form