It's sort of depressing, however the ignore everybody else and be lonely and secretly craving for human contact type of social interaction is more common in my opinion in central and northern european countries than everywhere else I've been to.

In South America or even in the US I found it fairly easy to have people come up to you and start chatting away because they've seen you several times taking that bus, or because of the type of bread you chose at the supermarket!!  the people there seemed to be more open to socializing and open to conversation with strangers than people here.... to be honest sometimes a bonjour/guten morgen is cause for people to look at you weird here in Europe!

I think westerners seem to have very high expectations of relationships... they want the PERFECT ADONIS OR APHRODITE with the great personality and the good job and beautiful and no issues.... just a successful very sexual fun fun fun life!!! 

people seem to forget REAL relationships require sacrifice, effort to make them work, consistency, some adapting and even fighting because of conflicting personalities..... a lot of westerners have this hollywood idea of relationships where everything has to be just great and if there are issues then give up and go look for the next internet profile you can date!! don't even get me started on women thinking that life should be like an episode of sex in the city!

life is not meant to be lived like that, however if people chose to live it that way is ok.... the problem is that times passes and people become lonely and older and the chances of finding some one become smaller and smaller as time passes, in the end they all end up lonely and bitter.

Actually you'll be suprised how many people actually meet in supermarkets, a survey was done in the UK a while back and showed that many women were open to the idea of being approached over the fruit counter (so to speak). Now I'm not sure if this was specific to any region or a general survey, but  its out there somewhere in the ethernet. Haven't tried it myself, and not sure I would, but the notion of meeting someone or interacting with them and eventually asking them out  as you reach for the watermelons...cough cough... is probably not for the feint hearted.

As to meeting a potential date in a library... well the code of silence is a hinderance, I would have thought.

Pubs, bars clubs remain far preferable than a computer, for me anyway, since theres drink readily available...

hic~

I have just moved here, and found it really easy to meet people straight away, I took a walk down Paquis and the women were really friendly

what a friendly city this is

Martin forgot to mention that he's Warren Buffett's grandson and that his profession is male modeling :)

Good to bring this subject up guys, agree with Andy O We have to become aware how we are living together and I have sometimes the impression that even the relationships are becoming a takeaway subject. If the taste is becoming less we simply take another one. No efforts are made to make it work. Ofcourse everyone is free to live his/her life.

Let's stay optimistic and that this is cyclic and that it will change!!

Oh wait, disregard my last post - I just got the joke...

I'm a bit slow today :)

Well-well, looking at the opening hours of the Geneva University library (8.00 to 18.00  weekdays and 9.00-12.00 on Saturdays) for working people it is impossible to sit in a library just to catch some nice smiles over the table....

Even if yesterday - I had a reason to be there for a couple of hours - I really enjoyed the athomsphere. It brought back the long gone university years when the library indeed was the place to be seen and to connect with others...it was just somehow natural. But yeah, in law schools you really tend to sit in the library a lot. 

And yes, Andy O, I also can say that there are many people this part of the world who just do not go for the real relationship. However, there is still hope as I know  some people who eventually smile back when one say bonjour. 

I think it's time for a woman to join the discussion. Happily married, so not dating, but I do like to talk to people. And yes, people do seem to be living in their own little box these days. But... you can actually do something about that!

I'm the woman that chats to the cashier, makes a remark to the person looking at the same thing as I was in the street, complementing the waiter on the great of glasses he is wairing, or telling the next door neighboor she is wairing a fantastic shirt today. I just say what I think, and do not let myself be held down by how 'one is supposed to act'. (To shut up and not interfere with anything, is how it looks like we have to act somehow. I still don't know why).

And you know what, I find people here friendlier than where I come from. I came from a village in the Netherland, where people do not say Good Morning to each other. Here, strangers do say Bonjour! I love it!

But then again, maybe I'm just really really strange, and on my way to become the 'crazy cat woman' from the Simpsons...  Just shouting at strangers in the street...

First of all I would like to thank Angelos for starting this certainly interesting thread. Approaching and meeting new people (for friendship, not actually dating) has been a recurring topic of conversation for me since I moved to Geneva a few months ago.

Even when a lot of people make themselves unavailable for it, making a first contact here is not so difficult. As drb1 said, you can make an observation the waiter, or your neighbour, or just someone queuing next to you in the supermarket or your sports partner. Dating doesn't even to be your ultimate goal, you just need to be social and polite with no particular motivations.

A different story is what will happen afterwards ... It is not realistic to expect to date someone or even be friends with them after a 2 mins conversation. This process takes effort, time and courage to face disappointment/failure; and modern life seems to be only about speed, about getting the maximum reward with the minimum effort as soon as possible ...

Eventually, I would suggest to be open minded and try to get the best of both ways of bringing new people into your life; you can never know where you'll find a good friend or a good date.

Thanks for the interesting comments.

I can see as well why alcohol has come to be such an important aspect in many cultures, and why bars have serving as a means to meet people - people are so defensive these days that they need the alcohol to be able to socially interact - "to break the ice" so to speak.

Charlie, I agree about the library, probably a better example would be a bookshop, a pet shop, a cafe, or a park maybe.

I think what I am trying to say is that we don't really interact in natural settings, and instead rely on artificial instruments like dating sites to form relationships, and social networking to form friendships... I am not really opposed to these sites, I just think it sad that it has reached the point where these sites are becoming the only hope for people to socially interact.  

I agree with some of the comments about how this varies depending on geographic location. In particular one can see in some countries people are more friendly and will great each other in the morning for instance, however, many of these interactions are limited to short polite interactions. For example, people will say "hello", "how are you", "nice weather", and then people withdraw again and continue on with business. Its a good thing, but it does not mean people are still staying in their little box; all they have done is just opened a window.

I recently went to London and visited the V&A museum, and I recall after a lot of walking, I sat at the cafeteria to have something to eat, and I remember a guy (who I never met before) sitting in a nearby table started talking to me, and I recall we discussed a number of topics regarding various pantings at the V&A, things to see in London, and even the financial crisis. It was a nice interaction between two people from different places sharing thoughts and opinions. I have found these kinds of conversations with people (who I don't previous know at non prearranged settings like glocals activities) as very rare. 

I can only add my experience here. I came to Geneva not knowing anyone. Some person told me to join glocals and its the best thing i did. I went to loads of activities (sometimes three per week - i was desperate!). Ok i met hundeds of people and ended up clicking with just a few and now they are my best friends here. And yes some more than friends :)

What im saying is, dont give up. Ok so you dont meet anyone you want to date in the first activity. Try again and again and again. You will find someone eventually :)

And a small advice to guys. When you chat with us in glocals dont ask us for our msn, facebook or more pictures to see us better. Especially if you have no info on your profile. You are not going to take us out on a date like that. You will be marked as major freaks

Indeed, I agree Maria. Moving to another country is quite a daunting experience for most, and its easy to get frustrated and give up. Glocals is great initiative for expats to meet like minded people, and certainly provides many opportunities for social interactions between expats.

But if we look at it from a broader perspective, imagine a scenario where someone moves to Geneva, and they don't use any electronic sites like glocals, do not do the bar/pub thing, and do not attend particular events (like latin dancing) with the explicit motivation of meeting people.

Now under this imaginary scenario, and excluding settings like work or university, how likely is for someone to 1) meet a person and have a romantic relationship with, and 2) form a circle of friends (not acquaintances) in every day to day events?

By day to day events I mean meeting someone while going shopping, catching the tram, going to a museum, to star bucks, or visit an art gallery, going to the opera, going to a park, walking by the lake, etc.

My feeling is that most find it difficult to make social contact in every day occasions like these, though I am sure they are exceptions. 

In fact I would argue that people intuitively know this disconnect, and that is the reason when they go to a party or event, they like to go with a friend, or a circle of friends.

You do have a point. However, in your imaginary scenario, the person does make no effort at all to meet people and instead relies on random people on the street to chat. Now those random people on the streets have stuff to do which will keep them busy. I dont know about you but when im busy i dont chat to random strangers on the street. Especially in a country whose language i dont speak. Its much easier to go out. Also about going to parties or events. I dont mind going alone there because thats an opportunity to meet people.

But what you say that people find it difficult to make contact in everyday events its something we agree on. Thats logical though in my opinion. Lets say you are out shopping and in a hurry to get home and some stranger wants to make conversation in a language you dont understand. What do you do? Not staying and chatting i think. Of course there are exceptions though

Well in the hypothetical example, the person makes an effort, it's just focused on more natural environments instead of say dating and other electronic sites to form relationships.

I agree, I think trying to talk to a random stranger on the street who is a rush to go somewhere is a bit hard. But I kept the example a bit broader on purpose to account for this. So for example, having a chat over a specific art work in an art gallery is another context.

Next time you go on a tram notice what people are doing (especially people who have not come with a friend/colleague/family member). Everyone is stuck in their old world, looking at their iphone, reading, or staring zombie like outside the window, ignoring everyone else.

I agree with the language point, and its probably one of the reasons I don't interact a lot, but I notice the same thing in other cities like London. In fact the last time I remember having an interesting conversation with a stranger was way, way back when I was in high school and I and my high school friends started debating with two others who were in some Christian group (I don't remember the denomination) about the validity of certain points of the old testament (I was never very religious). Now from all the hundreds or thousands of hours that I have used public transportation over the years... and that is the only example I can think of having a conversation (with someone I did not know before)... its a bit strange I think.

I am not advocating draconian measures that social networking or dating sites should be banned of course, or that we should be discouraged from using them, but rather, that perhaps we (by 'we' I mean as a society, not us two individuals) are too busy, too suspicious, too in our own world, closed off from everyone else.

(correction, i meant the last time I had a conversation with a stranger on public transport in the fourth paragraph).

I'll chip into this thread - unless you're female, you will NOT get approached at the best of times. Socialising is much easier for women as they are expected to do nothing other than make themselves available.

@angelos -   "...that perhaps we (by 'we' I mean as a society, not us two individuals) are too busy, too suspicious, too in our own world, closed off from everyone else." Very true

I'll add another point - it seems that a lot of ex pats are only in the country temporarily - the 1 year placement at the UN sort of thing. Expecting the ex pat scene to provide long term friendship is a bit too much. Casual flings and anonymous sex maybe - true friendship ...unlikely

drb1 - I hate to say it but just engaging in small talk is quite meaningless at times. we're so programmed to be polite back to anyone talking to us that it's almost impossible to tell if people ARE being friendly or their social autopilot is on

Responses do not necessarily mean friendliness - if it goes beyond the typical greeting then maybe. We are so much on auto-pilot its incredible

In my personal exprience: yes meeting a woman is like a job interview...

u go in with your tie and nerdy glasses...

Stage 1: Answer a series of long questions...just like in a job interview

Stage 2: The woman starts tellin u about herself (and it can be long)...just like a potential employer talking 2 u about the company...

Stage 3: Once shes done , she comes forward and shoves her magical tongue very deep down the throat!...just like a good employer who recognises a very productive employee and is about to embrace the employee after he has passed the interview with flying colors

this video helps

hehehe! being approached is easier for women? I don't think that ! and we have to teach women to approach the men they like, so men don't feel lonely and unapproached ! hmmm

Take a dog, it will change your life here in GVA! ;0)

i agree!

whilst i appreciate the notion in this message, it is hard to take it without being rather offended...

i organised a dating night in my work purely because people were moaning about the lack of ways to meet people in Geneva (dare i say i assume those people even use public transport)?!

I am not a "fud" as it was so politely put.. i'm just a person who offered a platform for people to meet...

oh and fyi... folk hooked up.. would love to see that happen on the bus, don'e get me wrong... but don't label those who use slightly more "socially" acceptable methods...

Trust me unless you're Brad Pitt you aint going to get approached as a man...you may get some subtle clues but its rare to get anything blatantly obvious.

I do agree that women should be encouraged to take action - someone has to do something - the saddest scenario is two shy people meeting they like each other but no one makes a move and so both go home unhappy.

Oh and people stop playing mind-games --- it just makes you look stupid and pisses the other person off. To be frank if i detect someone is playing me I up the ante and mindfuck them (I have a crazy brother and just emulate what he has done at times)

Be good to the good guys (applies to good women too) and hit back against the manipulative agenda laden players of BOTH sexes

  I like the way you're mocking this thread.

Personally I have never had sex during an interview...there's always a first time... I wouldn't say no...well it depends

Now that dog can definitely get some dates.

Lyndsey, firstly let me begin by thanking you for your contribution (which brings a different viewpoint) to this thread, and secondly, apologise for any offence or discomfort you may have felt from this thread. If you would kindly allow to say some words in my defence, I would like to clarify my message.

I do admit that I indeed I misspelled the word "fad", but please note that I did not use the word to describe the event organisers, but rather the events themselves. It was never my intention to call you that you or other speed dating organisers as "fads". Perhaps, this was the confusing part of my message:

"And of course we had a number of dating fuds come in to try alleviate this disconnection problem..."

Which if I were to write it more formally, should be written as:

"And of course we had a number of dating trends come into the scene to alleviate this disconnection problem" 

(the "come in" verb was misleading causing you to think I was talking about people, instead I was talking about trends) :-)

And though perhaps 'fad' may have a certain negative connotation attached to it, I want to put emphasis on its literal definition in my argument (ie. "an intense but short-lived fashion").

Again, my intention in this thread is to describe the distance between people in natural environments which causes us to rely 'too much' on artificial means like speed dating (and similar activities), almost as a means of last resort, or desperation in the belief that nothing else works (as you even admitted in your post).

So the problem (as I posted above) is not that dating sites, speed dating (or whatever) are undesirable or less "socially acceptable", if can borrow the expression, but rather that society has evolved to the point where we feel we don't have any other choice, other than using those means (which are still ok to use).

In fact, I, (and I am sure many people on this forum share the sentiment), would like to thank you and other organisers of such events for your kind effort to bring happiness to people by given them a means to meet other people and form meaningful relationships.

I like this thread!

I, too, lament the reactions I often get when I attempt to stike a conversation with a beautiful stranger.  As for machine dating, it does work quite well if you know what you're doing.  I'm happy that it's an available option though sad that it's often necessary.

Yes, I think you raise a good point about the reactions when attempting to strike a conversation with a person. Its like russian roulet these days.

Many times when I try to strike a short conversation with someone, you get a negative reaction. Like you have invaded a person's personal space by breaking their almighty cone of silence (shock horror), or they get very defensive and nervous like you are some serial killer come out hiding ("he spoke to me, OMG!").

And I think its so bad, that I, personally, don't bother anymore (and I see it in the people around me, most people don't bother either). I tend to make an effort to meet people through introductions at parties, or events, or other circumstances, but lets say if I see a pretty person on the bus (or wherever), I just don't bother anymore.

And you know, this is sad; because you may pass by your soul mate while walking on the road, and no one would bother... just like that.

Its interesting, because my parents met randomly at a public place, and they are still happily married decades after, and I am really happy that I am here on this world, because they were open to each other at that moment when they met...

so seems this is a forum from someone who is looking to wind a few people up, or see what ideas are out there. Well nothing is new about money, sex, and other activities. If its in paquis or real. So what is the new story to share or shock, nothing. Unless you been living on some Amish farm. We all have acceccs to TV, internet, Video stores. Thank god we have a choice to decide what we like to live or explore. I had traveled to Saudi Arabia, and I can say that choice is much better and healthier. Instead KSA-Saudi Arabia is so repressed that they come to Geneva for alcohol benging, protitues and escorts, and anything they cant enjoy in Switzerland. So seems funny the irony and hippocracy. Well Im not to judge but have my oppinion. Thre was a Tribune du Geneve Article that indicated or from interviews, that the ladies confirmed they earn the same amount during August-September (2 months) compared to the other 10 months. Give or take the Lunar / Jewish / Muslim calender for Ramadan.

You are correct in that I am trying to create an interesting forum, see what ideas there are, and yes perhaps a bit of "winding up" is not too bad, provided people are respectful to each other. Also, you mention Geneva, but please note I did not limit my response to Geneva, I kept it general on purpose.

So if I am getting it right, you are saying that if there is situation A that is a lot worse than situation B, then situation A is good... So if I was using this logic in a different domain, then I could say the war in Iraq is good, because there have been worse wars (like WW2). This logic is a bit flawed; no? 

BTW. I do agree with you, that the situation here is much better here than Saudi Arabia.

But if you think this topic is hypocritical, maybe we should start a debate on another topic. Philosophy, politics, economics, art? What do you suggest? :-)

Well Angelos,

Im not saying situation a or b is better or is ethical agreable. I am going to go wiht the flow, when it comes with relationships, sex, love, friends, etc

All above should not be avoided or prohibited by government and/or Religion.

My comments are not to support war, drug, alcohol but human nature of relationships.

Sorry if there was a logic flaw.

Indeed, I agree that religion and Government should stay out of the affairs (except where they need to protect people from abuse or exploitation of course) 

Well unfortunately, the world is certainly full of flux/change and/or protection/censorship/control/abuse/etc.

Abuse or exploitation is double edged. For good or bad? Who is to decide or judge?

"I, too, lament the reactions I often get when I attempt to stike a conversation with a beautiful stranger."

"but lets say if I see a pretty person on the bus (or wherever), I just don't bother anymore.

And you know, this is sad; because you may pass by your soul mate while walking on the road, and no one would bother... just like that."

maybe we should not rely so much on the premise that mr/ms soul mate is imperatively beautiful/pretty.

I think our social interaction levels depends on the background and up-bring. What do you expected from a lady/girl  who took mamas advice not to talk to strangers?

The moment you even show any sign of wanting a small talk with your seatmate in a tram or whatever place you are, the message subconciously registers"This is the stranger mummy warned about!"

In this kind of situation we all appear not to be social enough and are depicted as many previous writers have said.

I must confess that my first trip to EU way back gave me a  shocker when i went to a supermarket(Lidl) and found the supermarket full of people and surprisingly no one was talking to another except the Cashiers forcing a thank you smile on the customers!

When i asked my friends about that, i was swiftly reminded that that was not Africa where strangers meet and suddenly become Brodas(bothers)!

Suddenly i realized how close knit some societies are and some how far they are!

For example, any visitors to Nairobi, Capetown, Lagos, or even Cairo will not miss anything to talk to even Newspaper vendors!It is completely different from the rest of the world.

You can talk sports, politics, reality TV stuff and many topics in this cities and nobody will ever note that you just met as strangers.

Why am i saying this?, The lifestyle of class and social exclusion killed the good socialization skills long time ago!?

I cant blame the machines, except that they made the problem worse. For example why should someone talk to me with an intetion of getting directions to may be Star-Bucks  at the Rive and yet they have i-phones, and GPS?

The chance of striking a conversation is lost, since we all hide behind our gadgets. I better stick to my map which i dont even know how to read  properly instead of asking nice strangers!

I'm not looking for a soul mate.

no one ever is.

"What do you expected from a lady/girl  who took mamas advice not to talk to strangers?"

mamas don't advise us not to talk to strangers -- just not to take candies from them. ;-)

First of all I also would like to thank Angelos for starting this  interesting thread. From my point of view, he´s totally right.

I try to be open minded, friendly and to enjoy my life with a smile...

But than.. I see a lot of people in their "own" boxes..alone..

As a man, as I do like "drb1" does, the people looking surprised and sometime they got scarred.. For women, it´s easier to speak to other unknown person. But if you do this as a man.. the women think.. you want "something" special or you´re crazy.

It´s not only the case. But I went out alone several times and try to get in contact with other people but they tried to avoid the contact.

For them... a man who goes out alone, sit in a restaurant.. bar.. Café.. must be crazy..something is not ok with him..

Once I met a girl in the internet.. and I invited her for a coffee... Her answer was no.. she never would meet people from the internet..

Hm. ok.. I do online-banking, using Ebay.. What´s wrong with people from "internet"..?

But.. the reason why I asked her.. She was my neighbour and I met her several times in the bakery and we spoke there with each other....

Agree!!!!! i prefer meeting someone anywhere but through dating sites!!!!!!

Relationships take work but online dating take even more work. If you have a busy lifestyle, you may find it hard to keep up with the demands of online dating.

i rather go out and try to meet someone than wasting time behine a machine!!!!!! I still believe in eye contact and chemical attraction, i don't know if this will work behind the machine!!!!!!

My $.02: You can have your best experiences with machine dating.  You can have your worst experiences.  The person behind the keyboard has more control over the outcome than most people realize.

As for the time effectiveness, there is nothing else that yields so much result for so little time invested.  A busy professional can relocate to a new city and put 3-4 dates on their schedule in the first two weeks, investing perhaps 2-3 hours at the keyboard.  It works especially well in a foreign country where many people don't speak English (like here, ferinstance); doing approaches out in public is nearly worthless around here, IMHO.

The person behind the keyboard has more control over the outcome than most people realize.

It´s the same for the "real world"... If after a few seconds of "scanning" ,deep in your brain you made the decision "yes" or "no"... There are no longer some rules necessary...You like this person or not. And it´s the same with the other side.

The decision stay or go is made in a few seconds...

That´s why it´s total stupid for me if a girl say to me.. I would like you but the last things you told me.. No way... She made a decision in the first seconds..maybe she didn´t realize..

Nowadays even meerkats date online:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1302753/Its-simples-Unlucky-love-meerkat-gives-birth-quads-finding-mate-online.html

Internet is just another (and the latest tool) for dating and fallin in love (though not necessarily in that oder)

It all started with a an ol chap called Alexander Graham Bell who invented the telephone in 1876...marvellous invention....

However people were using it for very boring matters...they just couldnt grasp the real potential of the telephone...imagination was the missin element...

Until the early 80's when the village people turned up and showed the world how the telephone should be used ...

Todays Internet is just a small cherry on top of the cake im afraid....