Tell you what mate, there was one time I replied to an add containing pictures of some gorgeous appartment at a very reasonable price (should have been suspicious straight away) at Rue des Corps Saint, number 22 or something. When I got there though, I could only find numbers 19, 20, 21 etc. but no 22! I wandered up and down the street for half an hour like a pratt, asked people in local shops etc and even reasoned that tthere must have been a type-o in the add and so tried number 2 also - but nothing....the place simply didn't exist. I wasn't alone either, there were about 6 other people all doing the same as myself.

Since then I've seen the same pictures and photos advertised again but for a different address. Not sure how this scam works...maybe there was just a few stoners hiding somewhere and having a laugh watching us all checking alleys for non-existent apartments.

Scumbags the lot of them...

PS. Stay clear of the Geneva Craigslist - it's full of scammers.

James Martin, Jul 13, 2009 @ 15:07

Thanks Jim.

If you would have fallen for it, you would have been a perfect candidate for the reporter! (-:
Nir Ofek, Jul 13, 2009 @ 15:39

Hi!

I believe I was almost just scammed: I have attached the correspondence.  I should have known immediately, the price was too good to be true, as was the location and the flexibility, but I really need a place to stay (a summer intern) and got caught up by the idea.  I only caught it by typing in ojuota into the google search, and found out that the same scammer posts in Munich.  I found out about this on WRS housing, but I really do not want anyone else to fall for this person!

Thank you!

Ana

from Halle Borrel

No problem,i think i would prefer moving in by 3rd June..So yes we can
skype..My skype is ojuota..
So to get the place reserved,you will have to sign a contract with
me.I will prepare and send you the contract by email,then you can
print it out,sign it and scan it back to me and after that you will
send to me the payment of of rent and deposit to to me here in UK and
i can post the keys together with receipt of payment

Here are the details needed for signing the contract
Your full names and address
You passport ID number
Your move in and out date
Your address to post keys
So waiting for your mail

On 5/30/10, Anna wrote:
> I would love to rent one of the bedrooms from June 3d through August 17 (I
> would be fine to take it for the full three months (June 1st through August
> 31st) if that were necessary).
> I also may be able to find someone for the month of June for the other
> bedroom.
>
> Please let me know if that works for you, and what I need to do: would you
> like references?  Should we skype?
> Thank you so much, and I look forward to hearing from you!
> Anna
>
> On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Halle Borrel <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> The address is at Rue Du Candolle 1211 Genève opposite Boulevard
>>
>> On 5/30/10, Anna wrote:
>> > That is great news!
>> > I would be very interested in seeing more pictures.
>> > The address you gave is a Zurich address... can you give me the Geneva
>> > address? (Steinwiesstrasse 18, Zurich, Switzerland, 8032).
>> > Thank you for your time!
>> > Anna
>> >
>> > On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 4:32 AM, Halle Borrel <[email protected]
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> Of course the room is in Geneva
>> >>
>> >> On 5/29/10, Anna wrote:
>> >> > Hi,
>> >> >
>> >> > I am sorry, I had understood the room to be for rent in Geneva, not
>> >> Zurich.
>> >> >
>> >> > It sounds like a great setup: good luck!
>> >> > Anna
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Halle Borrel <[email protected]
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Salut,
>> >> >>  Thanks for the interest you had in renting my room.The address is
>> >> >> at
>> >> >> Steinwiesstrasse 18, Zurich, Switzerland, 8032.The apartment has 2
>> >> >> nice rooms and kitchen,it also has 2 bathrooms.A room is 500CHF
>> >> >> monthly with deposit of 1000CHF while the whole apartment is 1000CHF
>> >> >> with deposit of 2000CHF
>> >> >>  The apartment has the following facilities:Wireless internet
>> >> >> facilities,Phone,Microwave,

washing
>> >> >> machine,Dryer,Refrigerator,bathroom, toilet,lounge/living
>> >> >> room,kitchen, utility room you rent it from me fully furnished.Send
>> me
>> >> >> an email if you are interested.
>> >> >>  The apartment would be available from June 1st 2010 until June
>> >> 2011.This
>> >> >> dates i will be in Glasgow then later to Edinburgh.You can also rent
>> >> >> for period shorter than that.So pictures available upon request.
>> >> >>  PS:You can add me on messenger so we could chat more about it.
>> >> >>  Regards,
>> >> >>  Robert
>> >> >>

Anna M, May 31, 2010 @ 01:40

A summer intern at my work was scammed: she found the ad on a site, mailed the person in question, and got a nice e-mail back, including references. She actually checked those references, (where the person was studying etc,) and they were ok.

What happenend then was that she had to send the first deposit through to that person by Western Union. She did have a little alarmbell ringing, but did transfer the money. Then she got a call she had to deposit more rent. She didn't (thankfully), and said she was coming to Geneva first and would give it later. She came on a sunday night, right from the airport, straight to that adress to find it did not exist...

Later, she found the real person of the references, it turns out this was not only an appartment scam, but it started out as identity theft. That was why the references checked out alright...

But please, please: never deposit rent to a Western Union! It is most likely a scam!

drb1, May 31, 2010 @ 09:17

You can scratch "most likely". Or replace it with "always". No false restraint in that case. 

The only time sending money via WU is not a scam is if you transfer it to friends/relatives you know in some other country where transferring via normal SWIFT-account numbers is not possible or feasible for whatever reason. 

But esp. in Switzerland, everybody has a bank account.

rainer_d, Jun 1, 2010 @ 22:37

Hi all,

 

I am pretty sure I am in the middle of a scam right now. Going to the police tomorrow to try to get at least SOME money back.

Goodness!

Lina T, Jul 22, 2010 @ 14:09

Please people, even if you're totally desperate, keep away from sites like craigslist and expat sites (like expatriates.com). I have the impression that 90% of the ads are scams. A completely furnished flat with 2 bedrooms, a huge balcony, a fireplace and a parking space NEVER, EVER costs as little as 1000 CHF! These people also tend to use weird e-mail addresses, as well as strange or inexisting addresses for the place (in one of the examples above, the postal code given was 1211 - that's only a postal code used for post boxes and official state offices like the university, never for a private address!).

Of course if you're looking for a flat from the other side of the globe this is less than obvious, you simply don't know what is "real".

I think if someone has a doubt about an ad it might be a good idea to post it on the forum here, don't hesitate to ask what other glocals members think about it before sending money (but - as said before - if you have to send money before it's ALWAYS a scam).

On the good side - I haven't seen a lot of (obvious) spams on the glocals forum recently - hope it'll stay like that!

eva77, Jul 22, 2010 @ 14:19

Since I've moved to Switzerland, I've received two emails like that, which I was lucky to identifiy them as a potential scam.

1) A very nice flatshare in central Lausanne for only CHF600. The emails were written in very poor English (it seemed like google translation). I told the guy I was going to fly to Switzerland before paying him and never heard from him again!  He asked for 3 months rent to be deposited in a bank account in Wales, which I found very odd. He sent me nice pictures of his flat, very friendly and casual...it surely was a scam.

2) The 2nd scam was even more amusing. A so called "Spanish girl" offered me a luxurious flatshare in central Geneva for only CHF800. She sent me pictures of this amazing flat, very well decorated and a huge bedroom. All this for CHF800 a month...very tempting, huh? And the most bizarre thing about the email is that she send a picture of "her" sitting in the bed saying that she liked parties, drinks and was very liberal. "Her" picture was of an amazing, sexy, good looking brunnette wearing a mini-skirt. She also wanted me to deposit 3 months worth of rent into an English account of her aunt! It sounded like a scam to me at first sight!

I knew it was a scam, but I still asked the pretty brunnet to see the flat first. She has never contacted me again...surprise, surprise!

 

 

 

geojusto, Jul 22, 2010 @ 14:31

Thank you Matt,

Will let you know how I go!!

I just thought that Switzerland being Switzerland....but learnt my lesson as well.

thanks again for the support!

Lina T, Jul 28, 2010 @ 08:10

If you think you're being scammed (or might be being scammed) by somebody who uses a @gmail.com or @googlemail.com email address please contact me privately with that address.

cantarell, Aug 10, 2010 @ 23:52

Hello (Cantarell)and thank you very much.

My e-mail is [email protected]

I have been scammed for deposite by the Pakistani guy "with charm" who now moved to Zurich and I moved to other countries, too, and did not follow upimmediately. 2000E.

 

Tanks for any really efficient advise.

Helena Krylova.

HelenaTravel, Nov 28, 2010 @ 14:21

Cantarell:

so what can you do if I send you the email address of a scammer?

Nir

Nir Ofek, Nov 28, 2010 @ 15:01

Please see as follows few comments I personally found very helpful so as to detect scam sublets around:

 1. By Frank Jordans:

 How to survive a Geneva sublet

If you move to Geneva (Switzerland) then the chances are one of your first homes will be a sublet apartment. Here are some cautionary tales and bits of advice based on personal experience:

Most people find it hard finding an apartment in a new city, but Geneva poses particular problems because of the acute housing shortage. One reason is the excess of demand compared to supply. Another (and rarely mentioned) reason is the tendency for people to hold onto apartments they've let forever. And I mean forever. They literally think about passing them on to their grandchildren, while in the meantime subletting them - usually illegally - to stupid foreigners.

Don't think you can't simply avoid this scam. Chances are, you're going to have to settle for a sublet at first because signing a real tenancy with a regie is almost impossible. I did and so did most of the people I know. Sometimes it's fine. Most of the time there are problems. These include being "found out" by the regie; being ripped off by the actual tenant (your landlord); and living with broken appliances and other problems because your landlord won't fix them and you can't go to the regie.

Luckily there's help for you in the form of ASLOCA, the tenants' association. Everybody should join ASLOCA. I did and they helped me immensely to solve the problems I had with my landlady, let's call her Sylvia Boska. Here's what happened:

_ I moved into a small, centrally-located, furnished apartment in January 2007. Sylvia said it was a legal sublet and I signed a contract for 1,800 francs rent a month. We renewed the contract in early 2008.

_ A few months later we discovered damp in one of the walls. Instead of sending a workman from the regie, Sylvia brought round her own guy. I should have smelled a rat.

_ In late 2008 I had a problem with a neighbor and called the regie. They informed me I wasn't living there legally and Sylvia had significantly overcharged me on the rent. Sylvia, who had since married and moved to Argentina, admitted she'd lied to me, but saw no reason to lower the rent. The regie agreed to a one-year sublet and in the meantime I contacted ASLOCA about the rent.

_ After about a year of legal wrangling Sylvia was forced by the court to lower the rent to the legally permitted amount of 1,540 francs. She refused to pay back the money she'd overcharged us so we went to court again and were awared the 6,000+ francs she owed us. At which point, in late May 2010, she sent us an eviction notice.

_ Without a valid contract or the support of the regie, it's impossible to avoid eviction. We could have gone to court to get a stay of execution, but by sheer luck and pleading we found another apartment nearby and agreed to move out at the end of June. Sylvia still owes us over 6,000 francs, though the court has ordered her to pay it back to us by the end of the year.

The above is an absolutely typical example of the kind of problems you'll face with a Geneva sublet. Now some might say we should have kept quiet, paid the overpriced rent and nothing would have happened. Maybe. Or maybe she would have taken a dislike to us for some other reason and turfed us out, sans contract, on a whim. In my view it's always worth consulting ASLOCA and fighting for your legal rights, because failure to do so by too many people is one of the reasons the housing market in Geneva is such a mess.

Don't be surprised if the person who sublets an apartment to you illegally turns out to be a two-faced, lying, greedy and manipulative individual. Arm yourself well and get support: join ASLOCA; meticulously document your correspondence; follow the rules and the court will side with you.

http://www.frankjordans.com/genevasublet.htm

2. By Nir:

“If you're subletting, insist on speaking with the Regie before paying anything, to ensure the person whose about the rent the place to you is indeed the current & future tenant. And use common sense: if anything feels wrong, don't go ahead!”

3. By translator:

“I currently sub-let and I have an official contract with the original lease holder. I also have a copy of the letter from her regie that says the renter is allowed  to sublet to me for a specified length of  time at a specified rate”.

I hope it helps.

Hari A, Dec 19, 2010 @ 12:49

There is a post in the classifieds section under the nick silviaboska (!?)

 

Jane M, Dec 20, 2010 @ 17:48

One should NEVER give a deposit to the landlord/landlady!

In Switzerland all banks allows "Housing Deposit Guarantee" accounts which locks your deposit in an interest paying account but the accounts stays yours, and you manage it. And this account is created after a contract has been signed. 

In every circumstance, one should only insist on "housing deposit" accounts as a initial deposit. This if the landlord/landlady is doggy, then at least they don't get your money...

Secondly, state of geneva provides standard housing contract that you can take and sign with the landlord/landlady. This is a professional document that covers both parties..

If the landlord/landlady is genuine, then they would accept both the professional contract and "housing deposit" account as conditions.

hyeomer, Dec 20, 2010 @ 18:17

Tell us

How is it following up?

Helena.

HelenaTravel, Dec 20, 2010 @ 18:48

I meant Lina T

 

HelenaTravel, Dec 20, 2010 @ 19:03

I ment Lina T

HelenaTravel, Dec 20, 2010 @ 19:03

I ment Lina T

HelenaTravel, Dec 20, 2010 @ 19:03

I ment Lina T

 -and everyone scammed, at this point.

HelenaTravel, Dec 20, 2010 @ 19:03

Tell us

 

How is it following up?

 

Helena.

I ment Lina T

 -and everyone scammed, at this point.

HelenaTravel, Dec 20, 2010 @ 19:03

Yes please Lina, tell us what happenned finally.

Marie L, Dec 22, 2010 @ 19:43

Hi,

One good, but expensive choice is to use a relocation agency. I was very lucky with mine. I moved to Geneve at the end of May 2010. Was able to stay at company apartment for a while. However, by beginning of July I moved into my own apartment in Plainpalais. The benefit of the relocation agency is that they know the "hidden" market in Geneva. Also as a non French speaker, the relocation agency was crucial as they prepared all the lease applications to the regie etc. I have a colleague how is now moving in Geneva after couple of years here and they also hired a relocation agent. The full service I got (and paid by my company) was according to hear about 4500 chf (a lot of money, i know) and the service my colleague is getting is something like 2500 chf. This included the agency letting  you know of available apartments and you then have to make an appointment and go see them yourself. The regie will however, do the paperwork such as applications for you. Still, very expensive, but worth considering since it may save you a lot of time and trouble trying to find something in the impossible market of Geneva. 

Mira

Mira S, Dec 22, 2010 @ 20:29

Hi all,

Basically went to the Federal police in Australia and they opened up an investigation (international!) and found out that the scam i was involved in had many twists and turns - ie it involved numerous other people who thought they were doing the right thing but they were actually helping the scammers get the money in a safe manner. So to cut the story short - these bastards live in Nigeria, and yes, I lost all my money. I later found out that there were at least 10 other people like me who also got caught in the same scenario as me...

lina

Lina T, Dec 22, 2010 @ 21:25

Well basically scams are infested every where including Geneva.  My major rules are once they start saying that they are not in town for xyz reason and that they try to explain a huge story making that there is only one day one hour and you got to sign and pay and they will run, STOP DEALING WITH THEM.  Also, NEVER EVER send money to any country thinking that they will send you the key after.  I wrote to about 10 offers in the beginning of dec from ad at one site (not glocals), got about 95% replies falling into my descriptions above.  Then I even received same beautiful appt photos from different offers.  It rings the bell that things are not smelling good.  Hope we all got safely and happily sheltered then homed!

Apara L, Dec 24, 2010 @ 14:20

I confirm, my 10 days search on expatraites.com got me only strange replies all the time.  Chances of getting an out of town 'owner' there is 99%.  STAY AWAY it is a waste of time.

Apara L, Dec 24, 2010 @ 14:32

I just saw that this ad had its price modified. Do you happen to know by what specific rules are the sublet prices set, if any?

 

Marie L, Jan 14, 2011 @ 16:44

I just saw that this ad had its price modified. Do you happen to know by what specific rules are the sublet prices set, if any?

Marie L, Jan 14, 2011 @ 16:44

I just saw that this ad had its price modified. Do you happen to know by what specific rules are the sublet prices set, if any?

Marie L, Jan 14, 2011 @ 16:44

Hi Nick,

I am now looking for accomodation at Geneva and found a very nice ad in German, I replied in german, and the answer was in english, my german reply translated by google.

I assume this is a scam and the name of the supposed glocal member is Charov.

Here is what he replies and of course I think this is a scam.

I wanted to ask you if you could double check this persons profile:

 

Re: Re: Wohnung im Zentrum Genève
charov n to Valeria Solis
Today, Feb 11, 14 08:19

Hello.
 
Thanks for the email and it is my gladness to hearing from you.I am the owner of the Apartment  you are making inquiry of.
The Apartment is very much available but before i will be renting it out to you, you will have to agree with on the terms and provide and answers to the questions below...
 
Address:Rue de la Servette 11 1201 Genève 
 
Then if you are free of all this, this 1bedRoom Apartment is yours. the reason why am asking question that presently am not in the Genève now, am on a big project in Uk and am a Software Quality Engineer and QMP bei Credit Suisse and located at UK for a project which will last for a longer years and am giving my Apartment out,so that is why i  needed a good tenant who take good care of my home while am away.  I live in Here in UK with my Family. And presently my apartment is still available for rent in,for (780 CHF per month ) and a deposit of 900 CHF including the utilities like water, heat, gas, washer, dryer, electricity and so on. There is no extra charges. The  1bed room Apartment Include  1 bathroom,toilet.kitchen all private and We accept pets like cat and Dogs.it is furnished. Price in Per/month and it is very much available ,All room wired for internet/cable and telephone.
 
Please i want you to note that, i am a kind and honest man and spent a lot on my property so that why am been careful before i give  it to rent,so i will solicit for your absolute maintenance of this house and want you to treat it as your own,is that taken,it is not the money the main problem but want you to keep it tidy all the time so that i will be glad to see it neat when i came for a check up.i do that once in a while.I also want you to let me have trust in you as i always stand on my word.
 
I will also like to know how many months you will want to rent.I await your response, so that we can proceed from there.
Note: i will send you the pictures of the rooms when you get back to me.
Below is rental application form
 
RENT APPLICATION FORM.
FULL NAME__________?
DATE OF BIRTH:_________?
PROFESSION:__________?
PHONE__________?
MARITAL STATUS__________?
PRESENT ADDRESS:_____________________
HOW LONG?___________IF RENTING
WHY ARE YOU LEAVING your place of Rent__________?
HOW LONG DO YOU INTEND STAYING?____________?
PASSPORT COPY______________?
WHEN DO YOU INTEND MOVING IN?______________?
IF YOU HAVE A PET,______________?
KIND OF PETS:_____________?
DO YOU WORK LATE NIGHT?____?
 
......So do get back with me with this information  so i can let you know the next step...
Hope to read from you soonest.please do mail me on


Re: Re: Wohnung im Zentrum Genève
charov n to Valeria Solis
Today, Feb 11, 14 08:19

Hello.
 
Thanks for the email and it is my gladness to hearing from you.I am the owner of the Apartment  you are making inquiry of.
The Apartment is very much available but before i will be renting it out to you, you will have to agree with on the terms and provide and answers to the questions below...
 
Address:Rue de la Servette 11 1201 Genève 
 
Then if you are free of all this, this 1bedRoom Apartment is yours. the reason why am asking question that presently am not in the Genève now, am on a big project in Uk and am a Software Quality Engineer and QMP bei Credit Suisse and located at UK for a project which will last for a longer years and am giving my Apartment out,so that is why i  needed a good tenant who take good care of my home while am away.  I live in Here in UK with my Family. And presently my apartment is still available for rent in,for (780 CHF per month ) and a deposit of 900 CHF including the utilities like water, heat, gas, washer, dryer, electricity and so on. There is no extra charges. The  1bed room Apartment Include  1 bathroom,toilet.kitchen all private and We accept pets like cat and Dogs.it is furnished. Price in Per/month and it is very much available ,All room wired for internet/cable and telephone.
 
Please i want you to note that, i am a kind and honest man and spent a lot on my property so that why am been careful before i give  it to rent,so i will solicit for your absolute maintenance of this house and want you to treat it as your own,is that taken,it is not the money the main problem but want you to keep it tidy all the time so that i will be glad to see it neat when i came for a check up.i do that once in a while.I also want you to let me have trust in you as i always stand on my word.
 
I will also like to know how many months you will want to rent.I await your response, so that we can proceed from there.
Note: i will send you the pictures of the rooms when you get back to me.
Below is rental application form
 
RENT APPLICATION FORM.
FULL NAME__________?
DATE OF BIRTH:_________?
PROFESSION:__________?
PHONE__________?
MARITAL STATUS__________?
PRESENT ADDRESS:_____________________
HOW LONG?___________IF RENTING
WHY ARE YOU LEAVING your place of Rent__________?
HOW LONG DO YOU INTEND STAYING?____________?
PASSPORT COPY______________?
WHEN DO YOU INTEND MOVING IN?______________?
IF YOU HAVE A PET,______________?
KIND OF PETS:_____________?
DO YOU WORK LATE NIGHT?____?
 
......So do get back with me with this information  so i can let you know the next step...
Hope to read from you soonest.please do mail me on [email protected]
 
Thanks .
Charov

---------- <Valeria Solis wrote @ yest, February 10, 14 23:50> ------------ Hi Charov,
I am a Mexican diplomat, the one in Geneva wants to make 3-month course at GCSP, so I am looking for an apartment from 08 April to 3 July 2014. I want to live with my swing Engined there.
usn We ask whether your apartment is free for this period?
 
Thanks .
Charov

---------- <Valeria Solis wrote @ yest, February 10, 14 23:50> ------------ Hi Charov,
I am a Mexican diplomat, the one in Geneva wants to make 3-month course at GCSP, so I am looking for an apartment from 08 April to 3 July 2014. I want to live with my swing Engined there.
usn We ask whether your apartment is free for this period?

 

Valeria Solis, Feb 11, 2014 @ 18:06

This is a very old thread. Since then, we added the "Report as Spam" button, which alerts us immediatly when someone suspects another member as a spammer. 

In any case, Charov is a scammer and we blocked his account. 

Nir Ofek, Feb 11, 2014 @ 18:18

Hello! I got scammed. Could you help me?

Giorgia E, Aug 27, 2019 @ 14:00

What happened?!!

Sean C, Aug 27, 2019 @ 17:18

Legally the original tenant is not allowed to make a profit from the sublet. If the sub-tenant rent is higher than the original tenant's rent, it must be justified (furniture, renovating work,...)

In short (probably already explained elsewhere) sub-letting is legal and accepted as a solution for tenants who leave for a limited length of time and wish to keep their appartment for their return. The Régie must agree, but can only refuse for 3 reasons: the tenant does not communicate the conditions of the sublet, the sublet conditions are abusive, the Régie can prove that they will suffer major inconvenience through the sublet (f. ex. the flat is sublet to prostitutes, or the original tenant is leaving the flat for an unspecified length of time)

From Lachat, Micheli, Le Bail à Loyer, éd. 2019

Anne P, Aug 28, 2019 @ 16:12

I think subletting is explained quite well here: https://www.ums.ch/info-landlord/right-way-to-sublet/, in many important details.

Leonila G, Aug 28, 2019 @ 19:45

The link above somehow does not seem to work on it's own , however, if you Ctrl-click on it, choose "services" and then "serch with Google", you'll get there. Sorry it is that complicated!..

Leonila G, Aug 28, 2019 @ 19:53

If you remove the ",/" at the end of the URL it works.

Here's the corrected link: 

https://www.ums.ch/info-landlord/right-way-to-sublet/

nmcp, Sep 3, 2019 @ 12:31