so, the restaurant is not responsible for maintaining a safe environment for its clients? it would be another thing if the woman fell off her chair, or cut herself with a fork or knife. but a potato on the floor, or banana peel, or spilled liquid all must be cleaned up, and not to do so is clearly negligence.

No, Roger, it is not. We should not live in a society, where personal responsability for ones own actions and accidents can always be blamed on someone else.

Alan, are you saying that if a customer spills some oil (for their salad) as they walk back to their seat, the restaurant has no responsibily to clean it up? And for the rest of the evening, all clients must be aware of that oil spill and walk around it? So, by the end of the evening, there might be an entire meal's worth of food on the floor, and we're just to navigate it like a downhill slalom?

When I return to the buffet, I usually take my plate with me. So, that would actually obstruct my view of the floor, which I concede I don't actually look at very often. Not to mention, I might be walking with my dining partner and thus, may not be focusing on where I walk.

I do have an expectation that the floor tiles will all be there, and no holes or such in them, that I might fall in or stumble over.

Your generalization is over the top and not even supported by reality here in Switzerland (as well as across the world). Think about all things road-related. Signs, traffic lights, lanes, speed limits, etc. More often than not, I believe that I can personally and responsibly make a left turn at places where there is a No Left Turn sign. But, someone else thinks differently.

I'm not saying there should be no traffic laws; I'm just saying that there are cases when personal responsibility takes a back seat to the greater good.

About this infernal potato, how long was it there? Did it fall moments before the lady slipped on it? Or was it there for an hour, being stepped on, squished and more until finally it was a nice slippery patch that someone was doomed to step on? If it just fell, the lady had an unfortunate accident for which no one is to blame. (Well, the person who dropped it and didn't pick it up, maybe.) In the second case, yes, I would blame the restaurant.

I don't blame the restaurant without consideration. I don't blame the lady without consideration. But I don't think that one can make blanket statements about whether or not this case was justified or not.

well, after reflection, we don't know to whom the potato belonged.

if it belonged to the lady, and it fell out of her shopping bag let's say, it may very well be her own responsibility. ( she at least got mashed potatos as a consequence!) but if it was perhaps a waiter who dropped it from the tray etc, then it is too obvious that the responsibilty remains with the restaurant. as you say alan

" We should not live in a society, where personal responsability for ones own actions and accidents can always be blamed on someone else."

therefore the restaurant cannot blame the woman for the restaurant's negligence and lack of responsibilty.

however, we do not know all the facts. newspapers tend to write the story before telling the news!

to be con't.

Zonker: Alan, are you saying that if a customer spills some oil (for their salad) as they walk back to their seat, the restaurant has no responsibily to clean it up?

Alan: No, I did not say, that the restaurant has no responibility to clean up food. Just that in this non-perfect world we live in, we should not be able to sue a restaurant, because someone slips on food on the floor.

Zonker: And for the rest of the evening, all clients must be aware of that oil spill and walk around it? So, by the end of the evening, there might be an entire meal's worth of food on the floor, and we're just to navigate it like a downhill slalom?

Alan: No, there are other reasons besides people slipping on food, that food should not stay on the ground for a whole evening.

Zonker: When I return to the buffet, I usually take my plate with me. So, that would actually obstruct my view of the floor, which I concede I don't actually look at very often. Not to mention, I might be walking with my dining partner and thus, may not be focusing on where I walk. I do have an expectation that the floor tiles will all be there, and no holes or such in them, that I might fall in or stumble over.

Alan: The rule is reasonable expectation. If you eat a piece of bread and you find a nail in it, you should be able to sue the producer. But if you eat a bread with nuts, there is alaways a slight chance, that there might be some nut shells in it.

Alan: I am not responding to you over the top statement as I am not sure, what you mean exaclty.

Zonker: About this infernal potato, how long was it there? Did it fall moments before the lady slipped on it? Or was it there for an hour, being stepped on, squished and more until finally it was a nice slippery patch that someone was doomed to step on? If it just fell, the lady had an unfortunate accident for which no one is to blame. (Well, the person who dropped it and didn't pick it up, maybe.) In the second case, yes, I would blame the restaurant.

Alan: I do think that at least some of those points were taken into consideration. If she could have proven, that the potatoe was there for hours, she might have a point.

Zonker: I don't blame the restaurant without consideration. I don't blame the lady without consideration. But I don't think that one can make blanket statements about whether or not this case was justified or not.

Alan: Again, I was talking about this case and similiar cases (Engadiner Nusstorte with parts of nut shells). I strongly dislike her position aobut there should have been a note. Like you see on some products like: These nuts contain nuts. People who eat nuts just because they didn't find a note saying these nuts (which the people eating them recognized as nuts but ate anyway), they shold get the Darwin Award. Same as people who put their new Iphone into to microwave to load them, just because someone made an add on the internet...

epicure: well, after reflection, we don't know to whom the potato belonged. if it belonged to the lady, and it fell out of her shopping bag let's say, it may very well be her own responsibility. ( she at least got mashed potatos as a consequence!) but if it was perhaps a waiter who dropped it from the tray etc, then it is too obvious that the responsibilty remains with the restaurant. as you say alan

Alan: If she had won the case, what would hinder anyone dropping a potatoe and slipping on it, just to sue the restaurant?

epicure: therefore the restaurant cannot blame the woman for the restaurant's negligence and lack of responsibilty.

Alan: This was not part of the court case, so whatever.

Could someone post the name of the restaurant in question so that we can avoid patronizing an establishment that doesn’t keep the floor of the public area clean, so only heaven knows what state the kitchen might be in.

Thanks, R.

Good one Ritchie, but I would like to know the name of the newspaper which published that, very amusing.

as we really don't know all the facts, it  is impossible to make a judgement. but, suffice it to say, if the woman did slip on a potato that should not have been there, she must of had lousy legal representation. ever notice in macdo how often someone comes out to mop the floor? .

maybe the full story is available in the swiss german 20 minutes newspaper.

here is the report in english from the tages anzeiger

http://www.thelocal.ch/20141001/womans-potato-fall-not-restaurants-fault.

perhaps the error was that  the woman made a criminal complaint. she should rather have sued the restaurant in private  litigation. nevertheless the court ruling stated

"The court ruled that it was normal that food scraps would fall to the ground in a self-service restaurant but customers should be expected to take “appropriate care and attention” while walking around the buffet table, Tages Anzeiger reported."

what a crock......... where does this go from here? the mind boggles. the swiss are reputed to be very conscious of "clean and tidy" . maybe the potato was still clean and edible, so not a problem. had it gone bad with fuzz and green mould, perhaps then it would be questioonable!!

There just has to be a pun in here somewhere !!!!

Why didn’t the woman pick up the spud, blow on it, and dump it on her plate?  After all, ’tis claimed that one can eat off the floor in “clean and tidy” CH.

Of course, she wouldn’t have been able to sue if she’d developed food poisoning the next day but then they do say there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

What I understand is that it was a potato piece that she sliped on.

So COOP or Migro buffet restaurants all have risks due to other customers being inconsiderate when they spill anything, including from water, juice, fruit, sauce, etc and that they dont say to the staff if it can be cleaned up. 

Now its impossible to ever mitigate then the risk, so I agree that its the customer walking around, looking at all the big signs, lovely fruits and salads, and deserts and might just not watch a spil? This is why we all have Accident insurance, right? 

If not, then I think it really sad that the possible ligigation that would be 'adopted' from the USA would then be more prevelant in switzerland, and then it possible alot of scams to steal from the legitimate business owners and losses of employee jobs, at these budget resturants. 

Really glad the Swiss courts see the practicality and precident if they decided another way.

In anycase if she is working suva will come up for the doctor's bill then suva can recourse (regress) back to the restaurant's insurance, even if she is not working as this is an accident her health insurance will do the same as suva.

Ah purée! (Hopefully some francophones will find that funny.)

Incredible!!  There are so many serious problems in the world about which we (myself included) do nothing and here I am wasting my time reading about an amusing incident in a restaurant. Thanks for your comment Rich 

Oh, alright then..

She's obviously got a chip on her shoulder about something.

Maybe she can ap-peel.

Must be a real mish-mash.

This is such a half-baked discussion.

That restaurant should definitely get a roasting over their poor cleanliness and hygiene standards.