I think you should find aother lawyer, possibly one who understands Norwegian and/or UK law specializing in parental rights. In theory, diplomatic immunity only covers work-related aspects of your life.

It's not the Swiss you need to get to challenge your former spouse's diplomatic status -- it's her own country. It may be that if you can show that she is abusing her diplomatic immunity for personal reasons, pressure can be applied to change the situation.

Hi

Thanks for the comments, they are appreciated. I have spoken with 3 Swiss lawyers who all confirm the same thing.

The Swiss Mission determines diplomatic immunity privileges in Switzerland. Swiss law (Vienna Convention) states that I cannot go to a Swiss court without diplomatic immunity being revoked.

I also have got a Norwegian court ruling (Jan 2011) that states that I can / should go to a Swiss court to resolve this.  So the Norwegians are using their diplomatic immunity in Switzerland to avoid a Norwegian court order (which they are not supposed to do as they remain subject to Norwegian law in Geneva). 

I am in touch with the Norwegian Ministry of Justice, to get them to pressurise the Norwegian Foreign Ministry, to allow me to go to a court, but they do nothing. 

The Norwegian diplomats only follow the laws that suit them and ignore the other laws.

I even have an email from my ex-wife, on her official work email, stating that she is a diplomat and does not need to follow any Swiss laws. Which is quite arrogant for a functionaire. 

I can send the documents that show all this if anyone is interested.  

One other idea. One thing diplomats and their bosses hate more than anything is bad press. I would try to get a UK tabloid newspaper interested in your story.

Ask Matthew P, a UK lawyer, for his advice. I believe he is heading the case for employees wrongfully dismissed from WHO...

http://www.glocals.com/members/member_profile/22472

@Nick (sorry, just can't get myself to call you Biggles)

My situation is similar to yours (soon-to-be ex is a diplomat and she's playing loose with visitation), but nowhere near as bad at this point. Fingers crossed it doesn't get worse.

Sounds like Translator has some good ideas. But, I really thought her key point was related to the whole "immunity does not count in personal life" issue. That seems like a major point. I know you responded to that a bit, but did you follow it up thoroughly?

Have you contacted the UN Geneva LESA/GESA? (Local/Global Expatriate Spouse Associations) They have might have some information specifically related to Diplomats, their Spouse and divorces.

Also, what is the visitation agreement? And how does she prevent you? 

Earlier this year, my ex didn't tell me my son had returned from summer break or when he started at his new school. I had never missed a first day of school so far, and wasn't about to. I found out when it was, emailed her the day before that I would be there and texted her 20 minutes before, since she hadn't responded. There was really nothing she could do at that point. And my son was very happy to see me. As was I. 

I'm not sure if this scenario is in any way possible for you....just throwing out random ideas, hoping one might help or cause you (or others) to think of more ideas.

I feel for you, man. I thought I had it bad, but clearly, your situtation is worse. Let me/us know if there's anything else we can do to help.

Divorce Saloon?

Straight Dope (http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2228/whats-the-story-on-diplomatic-immunity)

fifth paragraph might apply.

Thanks. Also - the Norwegian mother has not accused me of anything or any wrong doing. She just states that she does not have to comply with any laws, so she won't.  

Nick,

It seems like a clear refusal to comply with local laws, which (seems to me) is a crystal violation of the 'spirit' of Vienna Convention.

Have you tried escalating this to the British High Commission as you are denied a basic human right? They might be able to intervene & apply the necessary pressure on Norwegian courts to follow the applicable course of law.

Bon courage,

Arun

Hi,

yeah, I tried the British FCO / Mission here and Berne, but they refuse. "It is poor protocol for our ambassador to speak with the norwegian ambassador". Which is useless. 

Looks like I will proceed directly to a Swiss judge myself. 

Nick,

Since reading your message, I've read a lot about DI and the one thing that comes through loud and clear is that diplomatic immunity is something authorized by the home country, not the host country. Yes, the host country plays its role, but they must and will always bow to the citizen's home country's requests.

It seems clear that despite what your three Swiss lawyers have said, you must be taking this up in Norway. As you said, as long as she has diplomatic immunity, she is "untouchable" here. Until that is revoked (or she finally comes to her senses), you will not be able to do anything here in Switzerland.

So, what about those visitation rights? And how does she prevent you?

Diplomatic Immunity: As a former US diplomat and government official, I can tell you that immunity was very clearly explained to us. Our personal misbehavior would not be tolerated and that we were not allowed to use the power of the federal government for our personal advantage. I understand that some diplomats [from many nations] abuse these privileges.

Written Documentation of Your Efforts: You need to have written documentation of all measures that you have taken.

a) If you had a conversation with your UK government representatives here and/or in Bern, you must "memorialize" that discussion in writing and send it by registered mail specifically requesting a written response.

b) Keep all written documentation of your ex-wife's responses.

c) Prepare a 2-3 page summary of all your efforts with annexes. This will save you time if/when you hire a UK solicitor.

Potential UK Options:

Fathers' Rights Organization. If you haven't already, you might want to contact a UK  fathers' rights organization and ask for their advice. One of the most effective seems to be Families Need Fathers.

http://www.fnf.org.uk/help-and-support

[You may want to contact one of the solicitors listed under their website at this link and ask for someone who specializes in work concerning the European Convention on Recognition and Enforcement of Decisions concerning Custody of Children and on Restoration of Custody of Children]

http://conventions.coe.int/Treaty/en/Treaties/html/105.htm

I'm sorry that this is happening. It sounds like a nightmare and entirely unnecessary. Diplomats do have to comply with the law. The problem is often getting the appropriate officials to enforce the law. That is a political problem and you may need to find a political solution.

I'm sorry to hear about your sitution. It sounds as if you have taken many of the right steps and are exhausting all legal measures here.

I would not leave it in the hands of God alone.

he'll probably be busy what with his son's birthday coming up.

Nick - I really hope it works out for you, i've heard of other cases like this in the past and I'm just incredulous as to how some parents can tear their kids away from another parent. I hope it works out for you. 

I agree with Translator that this probably requires a political solution - it is important that you keep written records (with confirmed receipt) of every discussion, especially with embassy staff.

The British Embassy in Berne must guide you in the right direction.  According to their own admission, they will point you in the "right" direction - in CH & in Norway.

A dialogue between ambassadors is the last thing you require from them although they are free to judge its relevance at their own will - you only need to report being the victim of abuse of diplomatic immunity, their acknowledgement of your case and their support as per their promise on this document:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/2855621/support-for-british-nationals-abroad.pdf

and this website, which led me to the above document:

http://ukinswitzerland.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/

I guess Swiss justice/law enforcement are the only ones who can apply any direct pressure on the Norwegian government, so I think you are absolutely right to follow through on your case here. 

It is truly disheartening to see such exploitation of diplomatic immunity for personal convenience. I really hope your ex-spouse agrees to an amicable solution for the sake of the child.

Lots of good stuff there...

But pressure needs to exerted on the Swiss and Norwegians by the UK govt. unless the OP is also a Swiss citizen.... 

I'm not a specialist in this field, but I had a quick look at the Vienna convention of 1961 governing diplomatic relationships which both Switzerland and Norway signed (http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/rs/c0_191_01.html)

The convention seems to mak a distinctions between diplomats which are covered by a wide immunity which protects them from being attracted in front of a local court (except for some limited civil and administrative matters: real estate, inheritance and concerning a commercial activity - art. 31) and other administrative staff which is only proected from being attracted in front of a court in matter of civil matters which directly concern their activities related to their functions (art. 37(2)).

My understanding is therefore that if the person benefits from a wide protection, the way is to try to obtain a judgement in the foreign country. If on the other hand, the person is part of the administrative staff, he or she should not be able to claim protection against a civil case which is not related to the diplomatic functions (for example in matter of divorce).

Thanks for that...a lot is political as well as legal. 

If you are important enough to your country as a diplomat, and depending upon how you spin the situation, you will be protected for the time you serve.

I've heard from  many Swiss  lawyers that  judgements -- of many kinds are very weakly enforced here. So even if you win inthe courts, the local prosecutor and police still  might not act.

Still, one has to work within the system here.   

Thanks a lot for all theseful commentds and also for the helpful comments offline.

I am proceeding in Norway via the Norwegian Ministry of Justice, who appear to have a low regard for their Norwegian Foreign Office, especially when is comes to outright abuses like this. 

I have also re-started the legal process in Geneva.  

I am still staggered to see some mothers behave so badly towards their children. 

First, how is she refusing access?  You don't know where she lives and so cannot just show up at the door?  Do you officially have joint custody or visitation?  If yes, then you could also write to the child's school to ensure you are on your kids' contact list.  If no, applying for joint custody is an option and if granted, you'd have even more leverage with the different gov't authorities.

Also, if your ex works for a UN-agency rather than her foreign office, have you been in touch with her HR department, as well as with her supervisor and head of department?

I ask because a lawyer I visited here in Switzerland about "pension" payments (alimony + child support are lumped into one payment here), said that if there was any refusal to pay the pension, the courts could go straight to the employer and the employer could be forced to pay the pension directly, by-passing their employee...  so it seems to me that involving the employer in other non-compliance with court orders would be a possible step to take.

Hi.

Thanks for this. I officially have joint custody and visitation, as set out in a court ruling.  

The ex-wife refuses access by physically just not allowing me near my child, and I avoid conflict by not pushing this (which could cause my daughter distress). I tried calling the Police once, but the ex-wife just pulls out her carte de legitimation (diplomatic immunity) and looks smug, the Police shrug and do nothing. 

I tried going direct to her employer, the Norwegian Mission, but they just stone-wall. 

Someone has kindly pointed out that I can take action against the Norwegian Ambasador and the Swiss Mission (responsible for regulating diplomats in Geneva), as they are  knowingly allowing my ex-wife to break the law and abuse her diplomatic immmunity; as well as being an abuse of various legal human rights (the right to access a court, the right to a remedy against an official, and the right to family life). I will be doing this shortly. 

I'm going to get a kick out of taking the Norwegian ambassador to court - I know him and he is a bit of an arrogant arse and an old soak (drunk).   

It amazing how these people consider themselves above the law. 

The ex-wife refuses access by physically just not allowing me near my child, and I avoid conflict by not pushing this (which could cause my daughter distress). 

I must say that it's likely causing your child MORE distress not seeing you and thinking you do not want to see her (your ex is likely telling her, or has told her in the past year every time you have been asked about that, "Your Daddy doesn't want us, want to see us", interpreted as "Daddy doesn't want me"), than the distress that would be caused by you showing up at the doorstep.  So I'd rethink this decision not to go to the house/school/other place she frequents.   If you go to these places with someone neutral (male mediator rather than lawyer, for e.g.), you'd be safer than alone.

As for re-establishing contact, do you send cards in the mail? Gifts?   My son loves helping with the mailbox so sending postcards in the mail addressed to your child with short but sweet messages will likely be seen as they cannot easily be hidden or thrown away and will show your child you want contact.  

I'd never prevent my ex from seeing our son, so it just hurts so bad seeing other mothers preventing fathers from seeing their children.   Who does it benefit?  In cases where the father is fit and able, only the mother, never the child....

I don't understand. The Ambassador will also have immunity, no? So, how can you take him to court?

Also, just food for thought, while I agree that what is happening to you is abominable and cruel to both you and your daughter, a gross abuse of the concept of diplomatic immunity, etc....... you've used the phrase "the right to access a court" numerous times, I think implying you've been denied that right. But, have you? You have all the access you want, but the other party isn't participating, right? Or am I missing something?

I only mention this because it's a very highly-charged phrase and while it's important, I think it should play more of a cameo-role in this procedure. The focus is: you should be able to see your daughter and she should be able to see you, without any obstruction, according to the terms.

As I mentioned before, I would try to see you daughter anyway. Meet her outside as she is entering the school building in the morning. Ask the school if you see her during lunch. Maybe go to lunch once. What about school events? Parent Teacher Nights, school concerts and such? Birthdays of friends? Chaperone a school outing? These are things I've done - some have worked well. others, less well. But, I know my son has appreciated every moment I've been able to see him, however brief.

You're fighting the good fight, Nick. Keep it up and don't lose sight of the prize.

Dude, I've been following on this thread for a while. I have sympathy for your case and I see you are trying do do everything by the book. Although some will disagree, I say man up and fight for your rights. If your wife is giving you s**t, I would bring the s**t to her doorstep. Stop whining about how the child will be traumatized and do what's right. Best of luck.

Yes - I agree with a lot of this - and thanks for all the comments. 

I have tried to get TDG and a few UK and Norwegian newspapers to print the story, but no luck so far, which is odd, as they often print similar stories. I will persevere though. I cannot imagine much worse for a diplomat, so see them give their country a bad name in the press. It's a career limiting decision. 

The problem with pushing for access to my daughter and physical conflict is that it can easily be used against you. Especially if the ex-wife decides play the defenseless woman who is being harassed. The ex-wife is highly manipulative and evil - eg. I have copies of emails she has written to my daughter's school (wrongly) claiming that I have harassed her - I would love to also take her to court for slander. 

On the other hand, the longer this goes on, the better my case is to eventually get custody. Even if she returns to Norway, I could follow her and still have a shot at getting custody there. 

On the legal point, I am denied the right to a court in Switzerland, as you cannot take a Norwegian diplomat to court in Switzerland without getting their immunity revoked. But in my case there are potential loopholes, eg. The ex-wife cannot use her immunity without breaking a Norwegian court order. As some people have mentioned, I hear lots of disturbing stories of abusive behaviour by diplomats avoiding the law which are much worse than mine.

But I can take a Norwegian ambassador to court in Norway, as he is preventing me implementing a Norwegian court order. He remains subject to Norwegian law even in Geneva. This will not look good on his record if he is representing Norway in the UN. However, the old soak is due to retire soon. 

cheers all, this is much appreciated, including all the comments via email. 

I would be extremely careful about what you choose to disclose and how you characterize individuals on an open forum. This could backfire against you in a very serious way, particularly when making allegations anout a senior official of any government.

I can understand your frustration but you need to maintain your cool on the public front...

Nick,

You're being too careful. I think you could find clever ways to see your daughter - such as before/after school - which would be hard to be used against you. If you don't like my suggestions, then find others. But, every day you don't see her is one more day you've lost forever. Your daughter can't do anything about it. Only you can.

About the "access to a court" being a human right....I don't think you understood me. You have full and complete access to a court. You are not imprisoned or denied the right to go to court. But, the person you happen to want to see in court is not obliged to respond to your request. It's a small difference, but I think an important one. My point is I hope you don't focus on that as much as you focus on trying to see your daugher.

Write your own "article". Or start a blog and post the simple cold hard facts. Keep it up to date with each infraction of the court order. And then contact media outlets, journalists, etc. with the link to the blog. Maybe that will spark something.

You say it's been a year. I'm sure you've not been idle, but your daughter doesn't know that. My son was in town for a week before school and when my ex wouldn't let me see him, as I said before, I just met him at school on the first day. I couldn't have possibly waited longer.

I'm just rambling, but I just think you need to find a way to see your daughter. for one minute. for five. for 10. whatever. Be Present.

The problem with pushing for access to my daughter and physical conflict is that it can easily be used against you. Especially if the ex-wife decides play the defenseless woman who is being harassed. The ex-wife is highly manipulative and evil - eg. I have copies of emails she has written to my daughter's school (wrongly) claiming that I have harassed her - I would love to also take her to court for slander.

This is why I suggested you bring a mediator with you.  As for the school, send them a copy of the court orders, arrange to meet the teachers, head master/principal, whatever.  

And I agree with Zonker, it's time to "do" something and not dwell on the negative consequences of what will happen to you, it's time to think about the positives:  you'll see your child, she'll see you.  No more being selfish, you are clearly ready for the next step or you wouldn't be here on glocals asking for support.

As for the press...  Norwegian press, UK press, they won't care, this is a public-interest story in Switzerland.   It's the Swiss press you'd want to contact.  20minutes, TSR, WRS, all of them love public-interest stories.

There is also the father's association who might help you.   There was an article about them on WRS following the change to automatic joint parental custody earlier this year.

Nice idea, will try WRS etc.... and will speak with the school too next week. 

I recently put in a application in to the Geneva court a few days ago and I am waiting to see what they do. But I am cautious about getting my hopes up. Having heard more people on this it looks like some of my legal advice was inaccurate.  The correct process being that I can go to court, but then she can claim diplomatic immunity - which hopefully she should not be able to do. 

Hopefully persistence will see this through to something more normal.  

Thanks again all - if there any more thought pls keep them coming!!  

Nick,

sometimes the problem lies in the "solution" that you choose to solve it, and this is the issue when you have to go to court for child custody. Phrased differently : the secret for winning a war is also to win the peace afterwards (-> a nice  'co-parent' relationship).

Your ex  will more easily allow you to see your daughter if she feels respected and "safe" in doing so. It helps her organization by saving her some time and energy, so the target has to be seen as a "win-win" solution.

I would suggest you to:

- be careful never to criticize your ex : rather mention what your needs and rights are, stay with facts without getting emotionnal nor including any negative statement : it will soon be more efficient,

- write as regularly as you wish to your daughter : she can read, she will be happy to receive postcards, letters or little gifts, and even if she does not reply, she will see that you care. Very soon she is going to be a teenager with facebook, a mobile, a crisis with education, and she'll be glad to have you as another adult who cares. If you feel that your letter are not transfered to your daughter, just keep a copy of them, and your ex will be very embarrassed in a decade for explaining to her adult daughter why she did not allow her to read them.

- from time to time, but not too often (once a month max, perhaps even no more than once a trimester), write a letter to your ex that summarizes the situation, reminds of your rights, also of your wishes/needs, insists on the solution (not the problem, nor the bad behaviors !) that you would like to have in place, and on the benefits expected for the child. If really nothing moves, then start cc the other stakeholders in the letter (mentionning on the letter that they are cc-ed, of course). Suggest each time to see together a mediator, whom she can freely choose, to arrange for all details related to the child custody : this will allow a small  "next step" easy for her to accept (and after a whiile, not so easy for her to decline). Keep opening the door for the "peace", that's how to win the war, that is to say: to end it.

Good luck.

Pierre.

Sage advice, pierre.

As I'm in a sort of similar situation, I can understand the benefits of your approach and it's something I should consider, too.

The only gut check for me is this: I have been very *un*demanding to this point. I have not used my son as a pawn. I have not kept him from seeing his mother. And so many other things that she *has* done.

It's all well and good to make steps, end the war, and so on, but all I can think of is the time I'm losing with my son. If the process takes weeks, months, years, that's time I can *never* get back. No amount of lawyers, court orders, judges, letters and so on will ever change that.

Which is why I want to, and I think Nick too, fight hard *now* to quickly right this ship. Nick has a much harder situation because of his ex's diplomatic status, but nevertheless, his daughter will only be a child so long.

Yes, there are *years* ahead of us, but that will never make up for the years behind that were lost due to the behavior of his, or my, ex-wife.

Still, I will implement at least some of the things you have suggested, even though I do see my son a few times a week.

I've been wanting to say exactly that since this (and Zonker's other posting on the same subject) began - so thank you Valerie for your usual rational and logical comments. 

I can't tell you ENOUGH how much it infuriates me constantly hearing tales of female manipulative and vindicative behaviour and all you guys out there have my hugest sympathy. 

BUT - learn from all the idiotic z-list "celebrities" who keep coming undone by posting on f/book and twitter thinking only their "friends" can see what they post. 

Its the internet so all your ex-witches 'n' bitches can access it even if you think they can't, so it may pay to keep your own counsel. Plus, if you put all your cards on the table, in an open forum, you'll not have anything left up your sleeve when she comes out with the next trump card - and she will. 

Pierre - you're a lovely guy and I hear what you're saying, if in an overly idealistic way but - women are born "scorekeepers" - they don't "forget and move on" and for them (unlike men) its not about the "winning", it's about keeping score and making your life miserable.  You can't "win" anything with women like this, so leave the decisions where they belong - with your lawyer. 

Good luck to all you guys and next time, engage brain before dropping your pants??? 

@carolyn (and Translator) I agree that one must be careful with what one says, especially with regards to epithets. I, for one, have tried very hard not to be disparaging here or anywhere public.

But, carolyn, despite the little angel emoticon, i think that last line was a bit trite. We're not talking about a one-night stand that resulted in a child. We're talking about what was, in my case at least, a loving relationship that lasted many years and only after a few years produced a child. If people, as they were about to have sex, thought to themselves "Oh my god, we might have a baby, and then we might fall apart and then divorce and then fight over custody and visitation and stuff - shit, we'd better stop right now!" there'd be no babies at all.

But, thanks for your sympathy about our situation. :)

Zonker et al - apologies for any "triteness".  It wasn't directed at you (or your situation) personally - just something that I've seen happen more times than I wish.  Peace, love and happy 2012 xx

@carolyn well, i'm sure i'm a bit on edge, so i may have seen triteness that wasn't there. I appreciate your contribution, your support and your awesome picture!

Happy New Year one and all.

HI,

I agree that this is not a sexist debate; all types of people can behave badly. I apprecaite the idea rational / logical approach. It sounds very nice, but when someone is breaking the law, court orders and human rights protocols, by definition they are not rational nor logical in a normal sense. Then it is useful to consider the cause for their dysfunctional behaviour - be it an event, or simply a personality or mental disorder. In any case, how long would you wait for someone to co-operate? Two years? three years? In this case the mother has stated that in her opinion our daughter does not need a father (no reason given) and she is a diplomat, so has no obligation to follow the law. I reckon that most psychologists would classify this a abnormal. Hence the need for laws and courts. I am not saying that I am a better parent, I just want to access a court and have appropriately experienced professionals rule on what is best for my daughter, as it appears that the parents may not be the best judge in this situation.

Some good advice I get is from people who have been the 'child' in these situations.

Thanks

Nick - on 26 Dec, you said you would talk to the school "next week." I don't want to pry - much - but did you talk to them? What did they say? Or are they still on break?

I am attaching below a collection of emails that could serve as inspiration for your exchanges with your respective wifes as well as the authorities.

http://www.27bslash6.com/flash.html

Catalin, that site is awesome.

Yes and so am I.

Absolutely hilarious and best laugh of the year so far...

Catalin - That was fantastic!

Zonker - sure, very happy to provide an update, see below:

I emailed the school back on the 27 Dec and asked if I could visit my daughter. Still no response from them almost two weeks on! I will send the school a reminder.

I have had better luck with newspapers. A Swiss journalist has said he is interested in printing the story once he has checked the facts with my lawyer - who is back from holiday this week.

Also, the Norwegian lawyer representing me has contacted the Norwegian Ministry of Justice and the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Oslo to demand an explanation why one of their staff in Geneva are using diplomatic immunity for personal matters. No response yet. No response from the last attempt in the summer either.

I wrote to the Norwegian Mission in Geneva (recorded delivery) and asked for an explanation as well. No response yet.

Spoke again with the Geneve service de protection de mineurs (GSPMi), but they said they can't do anything as long as Madame is using diplomatic immunity refuse co-operation. They have no power / authority sadly.

I have made meaningful progress on another area - but can't say much about this until it is certain.  But if it happens, it would ne very newsworthy.

The Norwegian mother still refuses to answer my & my lawyer's emails. So no idea if my daughter is actually in Geneva or not.

However, the mother has finally responded to the grandparents, saying that they are welcome to visit in Geneva (but I am not!). She did this last year as well, and in the end only agreed to allow the grandparents to see my daughter (their grandchild) for one hour after school on a Tuesday in the park (not even at their house). If you are interested I can post her email. Given that the grandparents live a day's travel away in UK, they declined as it did not seem worth it for one hour, and the mother has a reputation of cancelling visits 5 mins before.

I emailed the school back on the 27 Dec and asked if I could visit my daughter. Still no response from them almost two weeks on! I will send the school a reminder.

I'm not sure a reminder is needed.  Public Schools have been closed in Geneva since 23 December and only reopen tomorrow, 9 January 2012.   So the administrators won't even be reading any correspondence until this week.  If by NEXT Monday you haven't heard anything, then that's a bit of a delay and I personally would write again at that time saying that the email is still relevant and you'd still like a response.

@Nick who picks up your daughter after school? Does she stay with parascolaire? Can't you take an early afternoon at work and go see her after school? maybe even pick her up?

What about school events? My son had at least 2-3 school assemblies and concerts and stuff.

It just seems like there must be chances that you can see your daughter and show her that you care about her life and want to see what she's doing.

You just have to find them. And take advantage.

HI Zonker,

The routine for school is that the mother has a Scandinavian aupair who normally collects my daughter from school. If I appear at the school, the school calls the mother (as they know the situation is in dispute), the mother comes, I call the police to resolve the dispute. The mother pulls out her carte de legitimation (diplomatic identity), the Police say sorry monsieur we can do nothing. I go to school events, and she knows that I am there, but the mother also goes to these and prevents contact.

Nick,

How does your ex prevent contact at school events?

Have you actually had a situation after school where you go to see your daughter and the school calls the police? Do you ask them on what authority? Do the police come?

Or are you just guessing this is what will happen?

I hope you don't think I'm badgering. I just want to understand better.

Hi y'll-a little squeak on my part to say it's not really helpful to make slamming generalisations about women(or men)in these types of situations.Both men and women can behave appallingly and cruelly in these cases of custody  and maintenance etc.I've seen it often from both directions

The mother works 10 mins walk from the school - so can arrive very quickly. The school is a private school (ecolint - campus nations) paid for by the Norwegian Govt. The school sees the mother as the one who pays the bills, so I struggle to gain equal treatment from them in many ways - despite what Swiss Federal Law says. eg. The school does not inform me about many events, such as school photos, class trips, etc... I often find out these things from other parents not the school. The school even sends me emails addressing me in the same last name as the mother's - even though the email address is a clearly different name - which is annoying. I am told that these things would not occur in a normal Swiss school. I have complained to the school but it makes no difference. The school also refuses to have their inhouse "psychologist" monitor my daughter.

I am the one to call the police to resolve the situation at the school - as the school is blatantly favours the mother. If I arrive at the school, they call the mother.

At school events the mother keeps a tight reign on my daughter, who is very much under her thumb. My daughter could make an effort to speak with me at these events, but this later incurs the wrath of the mother; so my daughter takes the easy way out and obeys the mother. The mother has a domineering personality and others have described her new husband as more like a poodle than a man. (I intend to be accurate not nasty here).

Lots of personal information here, that doesn't belong in the open.

Biggles... suggest you get proper advice, putting so much personal and detail info out here will certainly antagonise your ex and work against you if your ex ever got to see this.

Remember the internet is forever, and although I highly sympathise with your plight, and am confounded by the walls you seem to be hitting against, I cannot see how venting it in the open is going to help you.

Good luck with it all...but remember, she and her friends and her lawyer can read this stuff easily.

I agree with Charlie. Do not vent in writing and not in public.

Remember that Google and other search engines archive this forever. It's not a private conversation in the slightest. I'd politely ask admins remove the entire thread asap, if I were you, and contract these guys (I have no relation), if it did get onto the search engines.

Good luck with your situation/ex. I really hope you will be able to turn it around for the better.

I completely disagree.

This forum has been excellent for additional advice and hearing privately from others in a similar plight - allowing us to compare notes and experiences. Without this forum I would not have heard from them. 

What you read here is really the tip of the iceberg in terms of diplomats behaving badly.

I should add a useful example - someone in a similar position to myself (female divorced to a Norwegian foreign office employee with kids) contacted me for confirm these facts. Her Norwegian ex-spouse, now in Oslo, wants to take a posting abroad. She was worried that once on a posting (outside of Norway) he will claim diplomatic immunity and refuse to allow her to see the kids (as my ex-spouse has done).  He claimed that this was impossible as it is against all the rules and illegal. Yet, this is happening to me. Hence she has refused to allow him to take the kids out of Norway (he needs her permission).

Hence, sharing my experiences has a saved someone else a potentially similar plight of being separated from their children. This must be invaluable to this woman and has made this worth writing. 

I really hope that this forum is searchable on google.

Should anyone like to know more, you are welcome to email me privately, I will not provide some details like names etc...

And, to reply to some who contacted me, yes, my lawyer is due to write to the school reminding  them of Swiss Federal Laws. 

I completely agree with where FerneyL and Charlie are coming from (as I said the very same thing myself on post 33 following on from Translator's advice) - but I also agree with Biggles ( I guess we all know now, that you're really called Nick) - that he wouldn't have had the same "sharing/caring" experience without this post, and got so many answers/help to/with his questions.

We're all grown up enough to know and accept the consequences of putting stuff online and its important to keep freedom of speech alive and well on forums such as these as it can be of enormous help. 

Without these forums, there's a tendency to feel like you're the only one going through so much manure, and Biggles has already said that he's involving his lawyer in everything, so where's the harm.

And its all within the "rules" of posting to let's live and let live.  Here's to peace, love and being careful what you wish for..... 

Why are some people suggesting he remove this entire thread? There's nothing wrong with it, get real !

Diplomatic immunity is a free pass for the types of selfish behaviors described here, and should be removed. The Swiss are generally weak people, and will shy away from diplomatic conflicts not matter what the law says. It takes energy and determination, and facts on paper held under their nose, to get things moving in this country.  

Good luck. 

Zonker: you asked abvout the school. An update: the school has said it is OK for me to visit my daughter there during lunch, but they will not assist or facilitate any meeting. So I guess that I just turn up at the school unannounced.  

Hi. Should anyone be interested in the epilogue to this event (a Norwegian mother using her diplomatic immunity in Geneva to refuse child visitation rights for the father and his ten year old daughter; for almost 2 years). 

In January, I spoke with a British Member of Parliament who then petitioned the British Foreign Office (FCO) to ask the Swiss Mission to remove the mother's diplomatic immunity with respect to child visitation rights. All this took 4 months! One month on, the Swiss still have not responded to the FCO. 

Also, in April I managed to persuade a Swiss judge to hear my case. The mother did not show up for the court hearing on the basis of her diplomatic immunity. After the court hearing the Swiss judge also petitioned the Swiss Mission with regard to the mother's diplomatic immunity; no response on this yet.  

The Swiss Mission in Geneva, who control the use of diplomatic immunity in Switzerland, don't respond to letters from my lawyer. Sounds like a "head in the sand and wait for the mother to go back to Norway", approach?  

I even managed to get a letter out of the Norwegian Mission in Geneva confirming the mother's diplomatic immunity, from their ambassador (the old soak).  

Anyway, comments or suggestions would be welcomed!  

I didn't get the inside details, but after two years of me making a fuss, the Swiss authorities withdrew the mother's diplomatic immunity and the mother took the next plane back to Norway with my daughter. The Swiss acted with the support of the British Foreign Office, a UK Member of Parliament (from my local MP in London), and with the support of the Swiss courts.

Apparently it is extremely unusual for the Swiss to revoke someone's diplomatic immunity.

Also, prior to these events, the mother was on on track to become ambassador and was No. 2 for the Norwegian Mission in Geneva. Now the mother is doing some dull work back in Oslo, and has no hope of promotion - according to my sources.

I still have not seen my daughter, for over 7 years now. I tried the Norwegian courts, but they were a bad joke. The Norwegian "court psychologist" stated that the biological father was not important for a child's development!! They failed too justify this comment with any evidence or psychology studies / research. I was laughing so much at the idiot psychologist that the Norwegian judge called a recess in the proceedings.

It sucks. 

In case it is of any use to anyone else in a similar situation, the actual process I followed to get the mother's diplomatic immunity revoked, was: (i) I contacted my local Member of Parliament in London (where I still had an apt.), who wrote a letter to the British Foreign Office (FCO). The FCO then wrote a letter to the Swiss authorities (Swiss Permanent Mission) on the matter. (ii) Meanwhile, the Swiss lawyer I used managed to persuade the court (Justice de Paix) to hear my case. The judge then also wrote a letter to the Swiss authorities (Permanent Mission) who are responsible for managing the diplomatic immunity of foreign representatives. (iii) I also got the Geneva child support agency (Genevois Service de protection des mineurs - SPMi) to document events - the mothers refusal to cooperate with them - which my lawyer sent on to the Swiss Authorities. (iv) I got a Norwegian court in Oslo to rule that they had no jurisdiction over a Norwegian national working for their Foreign Office in Geneva. Sent this to the Swiss authorities. In the end, it took over two years and cost about CHF 40,000, excluding my time.  Each stage of the process was quite arduous, srtressful & time consuming. 

Without question, it was worth it and money well spent.