Two guys asked me for the time near the train station around midnight this year.  They followed me for a few minutes and then reached into my pocket and stole my 600 CHF phone.  It took me a few seconds to figure it out but buy then they had run off into paquis.

I don't know where they were from, but the police station had three photo books of people that looked like the suspects.

Put a mouse trap in your jacket pocket and leave it blatantly open and stand near someone you think might try to pickpocket you.

Btw, if you’re new here and aren’t sure how to identify a potential pickpocket, it’s really easy. Get on the tram (preferably near the station) and stand near either a grubby looking woman playing ‘Besame Mucho’ on a Bontempi organ resting on her one year old baby’s head or else some scruffy sod playing ‘Those Were the Days My Friend’ on a battered old accordion. Then just wait a few minutes for the satisfying snapping sound coming from your pocket and the ensuing swearing.

 (NB. Make sure YOU remember which pocket you put it in!)

we have this discussion every spring and summer.... well for the last few years anyway.

Ive seen the police take away the "7 hungry kids to fee no money" boards the gypsy girls hold at traffic lights...but theyve given up shipping em off, since they just go stand right back at the same corner 3 hrs later.... not sure what the Swiss police plan to do about these professional beggars/ thieves.

Also be aware that they burgle houses in order over the summer months... and take only jewelry and cash... its easiest to get across the border into France... last summer 700 houses were done in Geneva, so its VERY common. Also before Paleo they burgle houses in the Gland to Coppet district...

Not until you showed up ;)

Nobody said a word about Roma=criminals btw...

Forums exist for expressing different opinions, no?)

Hummm humm you seem VERY well informed. Makes one wonder...

Hear, hear David. 

It seems only fair that if we are going to start a thread about 'thieving X', then we should continue on and look at professions that specialize in greed and thievery. And as we are in Switzerland, we could start off with bankers. And  my, won't we have alot to say. 

Anyone? 

Onis, no worries.. 'David R' just wants to express (and have us agree on) his relativistic moral code, making everything "OK" in the right light.

Sure, it's a chicken-and-egg problem (for the poor guys), but when one is at risk (us), that is immaterial.

Yes beggars are a problem in Geneva but the police can't just put them all in prison, they have to let them go.

Meanwhile, why don't we just enjoy the nice weather? Remember - don't talk to strangers, be aware of your surroundings, don't walk completely drunk in the street, take care of your handbags (and for god's sake CLOSE those bags, ladies!!), don't carry your 600 CHF phone in your backpocket, don't constantly check your e-mail on your iPhone while waiting for the tram, don't carry your laptop in an obvious laptop bag.... and you will be fine.

The post was more to alert people and to try to do our best to resolve the problem by issuing police with pictures of the criminals, not to discuss their place in society. But living in a place that is often voted one of the highest standards of living in the world, I hope their place in society isnt sleeping on my front porch!

I can appreciate the sentiment, peaky. But to place the blame of the thievery of GVA squarely on the shoulders of Gypsies is a bit much. For one thing, how do you know that the people pick pocketing your girl were Gypsies? And how can you so easily equate Gypsies to criminal activity?

And who cares where they sleep? Unless you're planning on starting some campaign, personal or wide spread, to eradicate the homelessness problem of GVA, then it may be the kinder thing to not piss all over complete strangers.

just dont ever ask me the time.....

a) i dont wear a watch and ...

b) im likely to go all jackie chan on you if you do...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1-NSWnOUXc&feature=related

@translator: Well at least the pick pocket will look you in the face as he steals from you...

Note the second song by the Hillbilly Gypsies...

After my 70 year old father was pickpocketed the first time he came to visit me in Geneva, would it bother me if what happened in this clip happened to a pickpocket here?

No.

Does that make me a bad person? 

Couldn't give a f--k!

Agreed about not pinning it on a particular group.  This is about "why should we tolerate this crap, just because it seems to be the norm everywhere else?".  Well, NO, this is Switzerland, and for anybody who has lived here for some time will appreciate that this country never used to accept this kind of slimebag behaviour.  

Ask yourself – why (as an ex-pat) were you attracted to coming to Switzerland in the first place ?

However, as many people will attest that the Gypsies seem to be the prevailing mob of gangsters picking the pockets of innocent people, I can only surmise that if get rid of the cause you get rid of the problem.  Tolerance has to be zero – anybody who thinks otherwise should be deported as well.

Does this problem ever get discused in the local press?  Maybe if it did the police would do something.   These people are not poor homeless people as Ariel R suggests.  They come here because the pickings are better than in their own countries.   They multiply in summer because it is more pleasant (warmer) to sleep outside.  Gypsies, mediterranean types, whatever they are, you see them together in the mornings and evenings planning - so for me they are one group. I tend to think they are gypsies (English for Roma) but this is not important.  The question is what to do about them.

When Sarkozy threw some out of France they was an uproar - apparently Europe wants them.  I can only suggest that asa many people as possible approach the authorities and ask them what they intend to do about this and then report your findings.  

Just moaning on glocals does not achieve anything but it does have one use it alerts us to the methods used.

No, "Europe" does not want to be seen not to want them. Also, "Europe" does not represent all of Europe, fortunately.

Very often discussed in the local press and debated by the Geneva council...However, it's a more of a Schengen issue than anything else as well as paucity in numbers of border guards, so it is claimed...

http://www.tdg.ch/geneve/actu/renvois-roms-motion-udc-rejetee-2010-09-24

 http://www.tdg.ch/roms-gens-voyage-suisse-craignent-concurrence-2010-09-21

 http://www.tdg.ch/suisse-prone-meilleure-integration-roms-2010-09-17

 http://www.tdg.ch/pages/acces-restreint-abonnes?destination=node%2F249073

 http://www.tdg.ch/geneve/actu/amendes-roms-annulees-geneve-2009-12-17

http://www.tdg.ch/recherche?KEYWORDS=Geneve+%2B+Roms&sa=

PS Police presence has increased around the train station but much of drug trafficking -- a different issue -- has moved to Plainpalais...

When the diplomatic missions and businesses start raising a stink, more attention will be paid...as often is the case...

I agree not to condemn people right away because of their nationality.

Don't agree using the H-word inflationary (as the yellow press in the UK uses to).

It's not about blaming people but I am fed up with this stories "they stole my lapton, wallet, bike, broke my apartment..."

I walked by the Gare Cornavin tonight seeing two ladies with a big smile and few teeth proudly handing over a pretty bundle of bills to a group of musicians hanging around at the tram stop: 'Beaucoup d'argent'! one of them even told me happily...

Rena> So, the morale of your story is..

?

I'm not sure what the moral is. Maybe it's don't drop acid before writing posts?

sorry, blonde moment: could someone explain please?

Dropping acid means taking LSD, i.e. I don't think he agreed with you.

My questions: What was your point of the story about the two old women in relation to crime?

Don't worry I'm blond too . . . its just that your from your post you don't make it clear whether you are    or   about the lady's with few teeth !

The (young ladies) to me did not look like having drawn this package of bills from their personal bank account.

I think it’s the fact that your last paragraph resembles a missing verse out of “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds” (by the Beatles – in case I’m showing my age. Google it.)  

So, the toothless women were beggars? And they were handing over bills (as in Swiss francs?) to street musicians? (Which incidentally would make them the worst beggars on the planet!) “Lot’s of money!” One of who told you? The toothless, inept beggars or the mind-numbingly lucky musicians?

Mindnumbingly well-organized.

which makes it all the more suspicious, no?

Peace, the world is good and nothing against musicians and beggars.

There is just a fair share of stories in this forums about stole wallets etc. So TO ME it seemed like this girls just returned from their daily 'work' handing over the cash they had made during the day to the rest of the clan.

But, thanks for correcting me... mabe just too much acid....

Actually, I think we agree on the two girls.. except on the world being good, acid and all.. ;)

highly suspicious

'Lass' gut sein', as we say in German

Highly suspicious of racism and xenophobia, yes it is. But then I was referring to the majority of comments on here. 

I don't know everyone's field of work on this here thread. But I'm pretty sure that most of you didn't end up in this country of international organizations and fields of international cooperation by being close minded and, to be blunt, incredibly rude to an ENTIRE collection of people. 

I thought this thread had hit the low point when the title was written, but now that I see we can judge strangesr by the amount of teeth they have, I'm pretty sure a new low of 'how callous and ignorant can we be' has been reached.

As David said above: keep an eye on your things, report any missing belongings to the cops, and be aware of your environment. And don't act like an arse to an entire ethnic group. 

Are we done now?

Ariel> We also didn't end up here by being naive. Prejudices exists, and will continue to exist, because they have a protective function, even if they are wrong some or most of the time. I am perfectly aware that merely a few rotten apples will spoil the basket, but it so happens that we see a lot of those apples around.

To round it off, the only two times, I was either pickpocketed or an attempt was made, it was by people looking overtly Western, i.e. no indications of roma affiliation.

@Ariel R

So you find stealing, begging as a job and playing dreadful music acceptable social behavior.  Well when I buy a ticket to take a tram ride, its to get from A to B.  On the same note (no pun intended), I didn't buy my ticket to listen to a bunch of (stinky) musicians blaring their noise into my ears.

Freedom is best servd by rules - how free are you on that tram to tune into the tunes that you wanna hear - nope; how free are you to discreetly use your cell phone while being blasted - nope again; how free are you to give your hard earned bucks to YOUR choice of charity when these bastards steal from you - nope again.

Maybe you come from somewhere like Detroit, which in comparison to the crime on the street in Geneva  - this place is heaven.  But for those of us who haven't had that Detroit experinece, no thanks, we don't even want a watered down version.  Its not surprising that you choose to live HERE and not in Detroit.

I have nothing against Detroit. And I wouldn't have a problem living there. Compared to many other cities in many other countries, Detroit can be like heaven to people.

But I consider your comment progress. We've moved on from bashing an ethnic group to just bashing a city. I guess this is progress anyway.

A gentle correction:  drug tafficking has moved BACK to Plainpalais, its HQ in the '80s and '90s.

The motto for Detroit is 'We Hope For Better Things; It Shall Rise From the Ashes'

One of its nicknames is 'City of Champions', and thanks to a recent car commercial starring Eminem, I am now aware of how classy the city has become.

If I may, I'd recommend you drop 'Detroit' and find an easier target. Like Geneva based Gypsies?

Sorry, it’s against the law to ‘sleep rough’, so we do have to care where the beggars and their ilk spend their nights.

I think it was last year that a Roma community set up an ‘organized’ encampment under one of Geneva’s bridges.  When the police went to dislodge them, they claimed they were tourists, to which the reply was that, if indeed they were, they should be sleeping in a hotel, hostel or similar establishment.

So they were moved on, probably ending up in a park or a school playground if they could get in.

I’ve also heard that some of these ‘homeless’ have tired to sleep at the airport on the pretence that they’d missed their flight, but that didn’t wash either.

It must be jolly nerve-wracking to be a beggar and/or a thief, always on the look-out for both cops and potential victims.  Can’t think why they don’t opt for the boredom of regular hours and paid holidays for road sweeping or toilet cleaning.  But it takes all sorts I guess . . .

Hey Ariel. I've just seen another post about some student who almost got robbed by two 'Italian looking guys' who were 'dressed like Mafia types' and 'spoke to him in Italian' in Parc Bertrand today.

Maybe you should weigh in and correct him about his 'xenophobic views' just four hours after he was almost robbed. I'm sure he'd appreciate hearing that right now.

Where I'm from in Hawaii, there was recently a bit of legislation passed that was meant to 'protect the sidewalks'. The point of the bill was clear to Hawaii residents - to keep the homeless off the sidewalks, no matter how remote the sidewalk was, and thereby out of public view.

The same arguments I'm seeing here, I also saw in Hawaii after the bill was passed. Same ugly slurs and prejudices. 

My point above was not, obviously, to say not to care about where the homeless sleep. It was that if you're merely going to insult a group of people, and then throw up your hands and say 'Not in my backyard/porch', then don't be an arse enough to claim its someone else's problem. If you want a solution, then be part of it. 

Ferney - your points are at odds. Perhaps because you've backed up and resorted to aphorisms to conceal a prejudice. You claim that the Gypsies you see are the 'bad ones'  and that your worldliness is how you know to trust your ongoing prejudice. Yet you also say there are ''good gypsies', or 'good apples' (whatever point it is you're making there). How can you tell the difference? 

And by the way. If you hate the music, then get some earphones. First there are insults towards these street musicians that they are beggers and thieves. Then they're just bad musicians. Give me a break. I'm sure there are some schmucks who would steal your LV wallet as soon as look at you. But there are plenty who are just trying to make enough to get off the street and stop playing their instruments for a bunch of stuck up jerks.

And by the way, I maintain my original point. If you want to look at thievery and greed, then lets take a look at the banking profession in this city. 

Hi RIch. 

Don't worry. I'm sure it was just gypsies in disguise. 

You should drop that guy who was almost robbed a line - I'm sure it would make him laugh. Almost as much as I am right now.

Well, let's just hope next time you fly back to Hawaii, you're passport and purse aren't lifted at Cornavin. That would be a terrible shame wouldn't it? But then, I'm sure you'd forgive them wouldn't you - whatever their nationality or ethnicity.

Gee, I'm from Motown...

So I guess you don't realize that the City was screwed by those auto industry magnates, some of whom may be hiding their money here in Swiss accounts.

And from what I can determine from your usual "high brow" postings, many of which have seem to be preoccupied with genitalia and getting laid,  I'm  hardly surprised that you spout such wisdom...

Thanks, Slim Shady, what a rock star!

Maybe the gypsies stole your sense of humor as well?

And my point about not being an ass to a group of strangers has nothing to do with forgiving them when and if they steal my belongings. I'd be annoyed, same as the next person. Never said I wouldn't be. But I'll be damned if I also give up to that thief my sense of consciousness. Not all gypsies are thieves. Get over it.

I just love musicals...

ok

I was going to post a long rebuttal to Ariel, but now I just want to say:

I love

kittens

and

butterflies

Swisster: Geneva cantonal bank case moves 'back to zero'

http://www.glocals.com/forums/geneva/where-how-in-geneva/105796.htm

"....Three former directors of BCGE, including former chairman Dominique Ducret, and two employees of accounting company Ernst & Young, which audited the bank, stand accused of fraud and abuse of trust between 1996 and 1998.

The state-owned bank suffered a loss of 2.4 billion francs at the expense of taxpayers as a result of the alleged wrongdoing.

In a demand filed in February 2002, the Geneva cantonal government filed for damages - with interest - from the federal banking commission (now FINMA, the Swiss Financial Market Supervisory Authority), which it accused of negligence in not properly supervising the bank...."

Hmmm.... since 1998, and not a single person yet facing trial, much less jail...

Oh, the outrage...

+1 internet point to me. 

What're those things? I grew up in Detroit so those things were all killed off long ago...or maybe they fled with all the white people...

lol, nice. +1 internet point to you too, Translator.

Under EU laws, governments are permitted to send citizens of other EU countries home if they fail to find employment.

Yes, and that's exactly why we Americans had to march over here to save your asses a few decades ago...

Robocop was produced by a Dutchman!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093870/

Translator. We Americans had to march our Yankee butts over here because of ... can you guess? 

The gypsies. Those damn, slimy, thieving, pointy eyed rag bags. They were messing up Hitler's perfect utopia. If they had only just stepped into line and gotten their toilet cleaning jobs (which, according to a poster above, is all they're apparently capable of), then Hitler wouldn't have had to go robocop on them. 

And us Americans could have stayed in our delightfully backward redneck country. 

Damn you gypsies!

I don't know if anyone knows their way to the statistics of police on pickpocketing or streetrobberies, then we can end this discussion and go back to the main post of being warned that this kind of crime happens in cities. These statistics in Holland are also kept by nationality and wouldn't be surprised if they do that here. Atleast all of us are out of the blue and can be confronted that 90% of all street crime is commited by people holding a passport from a Western country.

Nah, they'll probably be stolen when she transits the UK, that is if she doesn't get attacked by some raging BNP supporter who hates "foreigners".

And I thought that Palestinian thread was horrendous...Little did I realize ..

Yes...happily there are some good men from there...

The trick is to steal big...Steal a box of cookies....jail...Steal the assets of a cookie company, golden handshake and a chalet in Verbier...

The remark somewhere above - if I've understood it correctly - seems to assume that America chose to enter WW2. This isn't the case. America was attacked by Japan on 7 December 1941, and four days later Germany declared war on the U.S.

Many people seem to think that the Americans made a conscious decision to 'enter' the war as a moral act.

What ever the Canadian motivation was, the Dutch are still thankfull and celebrate the liberation with them every year.

Yes, maybe we should help all the small criminals develop their skills, so we can walk the streets savely again ; )

I g2g sleep, only had 2 hrs of sleep in the passed 32 hrs

Gn Translator : )

Ok, I guess I can put away my .357...but I carry a little diamond-encrusted .22 in my evening bag...just in case someone tries to get on the tram and play Bessame Mucho for the 1,000,000th time....I like a lil' bling with my BLAM!

Good night, all...

Enjoy!

Ok, that is really going beyond the bounds of all decency...accordions!  I surrender...yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! BLAM! BLAM!

Ariel> The point exactly: It is not easy to tell the difference, nor do I keep everyone in bad standing until they prove otherwise ;) 

Also, our 'part' in solving the issue, however you look at it, has been done by electing our politicians - and perhaps giving them a call/email, but, in principle, that shouldn't really be necessary.

Good night, everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV4vJa2Ys3w&feature=related

Aaah.. there is a YouTube icon..   well, you all asked for it!

Wow, you're really talented!

Ok here are my comments ..... which i will do visually, so No one mis-inturprets my views.....

and for Ariel.... here is one for you, just so Im seen giving a balanced view....

When I read the article amendes-roms annulées i began to feel sympathetic towards the police who must get frustrated.   I also agree that it is a Schengen problem while at the same time acknowledging that I benefit from the easy passage from country to country. 

I remember the huge queues on the motorways when transiting Belgium, Germany, Austria to Jugoslavia and beyond.

Nice of you to assume it was simply a matter not putting my phone in my back pocket.  I never use my back pockets.  Next time you're walking alone at midnight and two people politely ask you a question and then follow you, get uncomfortably close, start to act irrational, and no one else is nearby to see, will you forget to hold on to your phone when you pull your hands of your jacket and tell them to back off?  How do you know that ignoring them rather than answering would have made a difference?  A friend told me he was nearly mugged at the same location.  And the police told me there was an attempted stabbing that night.  I'm glad they just wanted my phone.

and this will explain what a Irish pikey is.....

(yep we have the same problems with "travellers")

Actually what I would like to know is how "travellers" manage to drag caravans behind  7 series BMWs and brand new Mercs....didnt know "apple picking" was so lucerative...

Geneva is full of thieves and no, I am not talking about "gypsies" which by the way are not all thieves; I am talking about men in fancy suits sitting in luxurious offices, drinking fancy cocktails with beautiful secretaries and very large paychecks.  Those are the worst!

Geneva does have petty street crime, but what city doesn't? it's up to YOU to be careful and exercise common sense...... yesterday at starbucks I saw an idiotic woman going for her coffee over the counter and leaving her wallet alone on the table (if you're this type of person, then don't complain if they steal your things)

And by the way, how offensive the title of this thread towards some one in Glocals of Roma origin!

if it wasn't Thieving Gypsies but Thieving blacks, women, gays, jews, muslims or something else that is more politically incorrect to bash then many would complain.

Goes to show that the human species are not only hypocrites by nature but they are also full of shite!

andy...

Agreed it was a stupid thing to do, but the fact is that it used to be possible in Switzerland to leave one’s wallet on a table while going to the counter to place an order.  Nobody would touch it.

We all have to learn to be more aware. I’m doing my best to retrain, but old habits die hard.

I guess that most of you would agree with this motto i've read this morning.. "geneve d'abord, mendiants dehors"...so sad, expats can't vote.(Ironic)

I tend to think that these thieves choose their preys..don't complain if you look and act like an american victim...

don't be afraid, poor peoples also scarry me

I dunno.. I don't find it 'stupid' to trust the other patrons to have a look and give a shout or intervene, if something's amiss. Trusting, maybe. A wallet on a table is not a gift left for thieves* and thieves aren't excused**, if they can't help themselves.

*Note that "thieves", in this context, covers a small subset of all human ethnicities (save PC-protected ones), aliens, animals, robots, cleptomaniacs and all possible mixes, in undeclared proportions.

**Save for the parent stealing bread to feed its starving child.. but somehow, just somehow, I feel, this is not the case ;)

Stop worrying about the title of the thread and let a non-thieving gypsy make this complaint. 

The problem is that there a large number of criminal groups in Geneva. 

One of these groups in central Geneva is made up of pickpockets , most of whom are East European gypsies.  (I refrain from using the word rom or Roma which is a term of abuse in eastern Europe similar to gyppo in English)

The Lyonnaise gangs are known for stealing cars - it does not mean that all residents of Lyon steal cars.

We now learn that upmarket Italian speaking pickpockets operate is the nicer areas - not all Italians pick pockets 

Going back to the gypsy or eastern European groups - there is one grouip that plays good music - often by the train station. They provide a service and you do not have to tip every time.  Why do they do it?  My wife asked the question of one of the (toothless?) women and the reply she received was - well you would not employ me as a cleaner, even though I am capable, would you?

So to start defending them without being willing to help in any way (unless you employ one as a cleaner of chauffeur) is in my opinion hypocritical.  The problem will not go away until both we in western Europe and their own governments change attitudes and I see absolutely no progress in that field.     

I am not offended but annoyed by the fact that the focus of attention is gypsies.....

yesterday a guy posted on glocals that he was almost mugged by two italians, here in my building they caught a group of french guys pretending to be cops and knocking on people's doors so they could enter appartments and steal from possible victims.

so is not so exclusively Eastern European more precisesly gypsie after all huh??? 

oh and the other day they found a guy beaten in one of the garages of my building!!! he claims two french guys with lyonais accent came and beat him up and left him inside one of the gargaes in my building for no apparent reason... he was possibly mistaken with some one else.

so yeah gypsies... right?

i think the thread was more a general warning of one particular instance that happened to the poster. unless he has the worst luck in geneva and gets robbed by gypsies, pickpocketed by the mafia, carjacked by frenchmen, then beaten up by other westerners he will probably write about his 1 experience. 

Personally, i think i'll just smack anyone that talks to me now from any nationality just in case they're one of the bad apples. That way i won't offend anyone or be hypocritical.. 

Great idea would to try pickpocket and rob gypsies.

Pro's:

1. Good chance on a nice amount of cash

2. They won't go to the police

Cons:

1. They work in groups so make sure you can run fast or use the Italian scooter method.

ow and I couldn't find any Italians on scooters as they drive too fast, so I offer you some Chinese action instead. Check the woman on the left bottom at start of the video.

What alcohol problem?  We just go for a beer.  If it happens that we get blind drunk we would not be able to tell the difference between white black brown or deep purple

Actually in the US thieves are black, in Canada they are Muslims and Somalians and probably pakis too, while in Russia they are Chechens, in Brussels Arabs and North Africans.  In Africa, given what I said above, they are all thieves!  In Nazi and pre-Nazi Germany they were Jews who controlled everything while today they are Turkish.  I wonder who in Turkey are thieves?  Probably Greeks and Armenians and Kurds.

While on Wall Street!?!  They are the most compassionate job creating creative (accountants) people you'd like to meet in a dark alleyway!

Can someone help with identifying all the other scumbags in all the other countries not yet mentioned?

You have forgotten con number 2 -obviously forgotten some of the replies. above 

You are statistically bound to target a law-abiding gypsy who has never committed a crime in his life

So cute : ) 

Very sorry to hear of your bad luck but hope it will be a one-off and you’ll come to like Geneva.

Hope so because the one and only time I’ve had my handbag stolen – so far, touch wood and all that – was in your home town when a Chinese friend took me to see her local supermarket.

But that’s the way the cookie crumbles, I guess.

All the best, R.

I think that's part of the problem.  Many people think Geneva has little crime when they move here so they are perhaps less cautious.  I would avoid as much as possible walking alone after midnight in the south side of Chicago where I lived.  In Geneva I was less cautious.

The title "thieving Gypsies" is unfortunate.  I would just emphasise thieves.  But the very first thing the police officer asked me when I said I just had been pick pocketed was "were they Arabs".  When I went to the train station and went through photo books it was quite clear the majority of reported criminals come from a few demographic groups.  That's just some of the facts.  I think it's helpful to know what kind of people to watch out for and their common tactics to avoid being robbed.

Fortunately, most of the crime in Geneva is not violent (that could change) so by that measure Geneva is still rather safe.  I can't say the same about the south side of Chicago...

Paul it's a sport that should be practisized only by people from the city to mimimize this risk. Often city people are also the only group that know of the existence of these kind of people and have less trouble recognizing them. Well and mistakes can always be made we ain't perfect.

Excerpt from:

The Scapegoats of Europe

The Persecution of the Roma

By SAM BECK

The European Union must be held accountable if European states continue to expel Roma from member countries. The expulsions are taking place because Roma have created settlements not only in designated campgrounds but also within urban boundaries. This is not new. However, the scale and density of such settlements disturbs the sensibilities of Europeans. This is not only a West European phenomenon. Events of intolerable discrimination are also taking place in East Central Europe and the Balkans from which many of these Roma originate. The history of anti-Roma sentiments in both East and West Europe is torturous and long-standing.

http://www.counterpunch.org/beck09102010.html

Sam Beck was a child in post-World War II Vienna. He studied in Yugoslavia as an undergraduate, carried out research in Iran among nomadic pastoralists, and completed doctoral and post-doctoral research in Romania before and after the execution of the Ceausescus. Throughout this time, he had contact with Roma in Vienna, Yugoslavia, Romania, Turkey, and Iran. During a post-doctoral research project funded by IREX, Beck collaborated with Nicolae Gheorghe, a Roma Sociologist political activist and found himself covering a wide range of Roma groups, especially in Transylvania. Most of his publications on his Roma research can be found in the first iteration of Dialectical Anthropology. He now carries out research in New York City and is publishing work on Public Anthropology.

This article was originally published by AnthropologyWorks

So scary.  I wouldn't be able to defend myself from either or the two.

Here's cute:

http://www.essex.ac.uk/ecpr/events/graduateconference/papers/7/64/walter.pdf

Amazing how they got this all captured on film!  I hope they turned it over to the poice and reported them!

When right was right and wrong was wrong!  Oh how I miss slavery

Nice song, anyone got an idea who it is?

By JUSTIN FREW

While the history of Irish Travellers is to a large extent shrouded in the mists of the past, records indicate that they have contributed to Ireland’s cultural tapestry for close to a millennium, ever since the 12th century. As far back as 1551, in a sober premonition of the discrimination Travellers have continued to suffer from, an ‘Acte for tynkers and pedlers’ prohibited their engagement in nomadic trading.

http://www.counterpunch.org/frew08212009.html

http://www.google.ch/#hl=de&source=hp&biw=1362&bih=562&q=when+america+is+not+america+anymore&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&fp=39a57a9f046d7fb4

Careful, there G____:

The one you smack may be from Detroit, Compton (Los Angeles), the Bronx, or the South Side of Chicago..or some new guy from South Africa who was posting about "cock-punching" a thief near Cornavin.

Many, many human rights organizations spoke out about this issue and we even discussed it on Glocals.

You seem to think there is some favoritism by human rights groups for protecting the causes of Africans and Arabs. You are, however, woefully misinformed.  

http://www.google.ch/#hl=en&xhr=t&q=human+rights++organizations+%2B+Roma+in+France&cp=44&pf=p&sclient=psy&source=hp&a

Actually there are faults in both arguments.  When I've been in England I only ever heard young women talking about going out to get sloshed (or maybe I was only paying attention to young women).  It used to upset me so much about their apalling English refusing to use the correct term, shitfaced.

I think the Brits are good at getting just sufficiently shitfaced to get in their cars and crash, vandalise and attack - quite a skill and sign of restraint.

Actually I've seen the argument advanced that back in 'the good old days' beer was the choice of consumption and high prices and taxes on the hard stuff minimised drinking it.  Also there were closing times not long ago during the day and early evening.  All that changed under HRH Blair and 24 hour clubs came on the scene.  Pubs are now mainly owned by breweries so there might have been a financial incentive  to the change in the laws.  Must look up NHS stats on the rates of problem drinking.

Actually in Chicago and Oakland it's dangerous to be walking/driving/trainriding while black.

As to the police response that might (?) reflect bias.  It would be interesting to see some crime statistics and even then as in the US where blacks are overrepresented in prisons and get harsher sentences than whites for the same offense one has to be careful with the stats.  Stats don't lie but people do and will.

I haven't been paying too close attention to the police in Geneva but I haven't noticed many 'ethnic' ones or am I wrong(?)

By ERIC RUDER

During the last four years, a court-appointed special prosecutor has spent more than $5 million investigating a police torture ring that terrorized nearly 200 Black men on Chicago's South Side during the 1970s, '80s and '90s.

But the report has still not seen the light of day--kept under wraps by the efforts of some of the city's most powerful politicians.

Edward Egan, a former Illinois appellate judge, issued subpoenas, reviewed records of all sorts, heard testimony and finally wrote a report documenting the findings of his investigation into the torture of African American suspects in custody at Area 2 and Area 3 police headquarters.

Judge Paul Biebel, who appointed Egan, ruled that the report should be released, calling the torture allegations an "open sore on the civic body of the city of Chicago which has festered for many years." Biebel wrote that the "interests of justice require the full publishing of the special prosecutor's report." But the police under investigation and their allies in the city's political machine have so far kept the findings under wraps.

(full article here: http://www.counterpunch.org/ruder06092006.html ) (one can also search the site for  Chicago Police Torture and find other stories especially interestingly about the recent trial of the former chief of pigs)

Those who want to drink will drink whatever you try to prevent it. The always obvious response most will expect to read after a post like yours. You might think drinking was less when it cost a lot, ofcourse illegal breweries and homemade liquer was booming business back then.

Softdrugs in Holland is legal, but our drugrelated problems are in most cases if not all, far less then in countries where it's illegal.

In Holland the opening hours of clubs are longer now too. The reason for this is to prevent everyone leaving at 2:00 in the morning and have overcrowded streets filled with drunk people. The effect is very possitive. If you think the chance you can become an alcoholic increases when bars are kept open longer, I wonder what planet you are from.

I bet you are just joking and waiting for someone like me to respond, right?

by John Nichols

This article is adapted from The “S” Word: A Short History of an American Tradition… Socialism, published in March by Verso.
 
If there’s one constant in the elite national discourse of the moment, it is the claim that America was founded as a capitalist country and that socialism is a dangerous foreign import that, despite our unwarranted faith in free trade, must be barred at the border. This most conventional “wisdom”—increasingly accepted at least until the recent grassroots mobilizations in Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan and Maine—has held that everything public is inferior to everything private, that corporations are always good and unions always bad, that progressive taxation is inherently evil and that the best economic model is the one that allows the wealthy to gobble up as much of the Republic as they choose before anything trickles down to the great mass of Americans. Rush Limbaugh informs us regularly that proposals to tax people as rich as he is for the purpose of providing healthcare for kids and jobs for the unemployed are “antithetical” to the nation’s original intent and that Barack Obama’s reforms are “destroying this country as it was founded."

Truman did not cower at the mention of the word “socialism,” which in those days was distinguished in the minds of most Americans from Soviet Stalinism, with which the president—a mean cold warrior—was wrangling. Nor did Truman, who counted among his essential allies trade unionists like David Dubinsky, Jacob Potofsky and Walter Reuther, all of whom had been connected with socialist causes and in many cases the Socialist Party of Eugene V. Debs and Norman Thomas, rave about the evils of social democracy. Rather, he joked that “Out of the great progress of this country, out of our great advances in achieving a better life for all, out of our rise to world leadership, the Republican leaders have learned nothing. Confronted by the great record of this country, and the tremendous promise of its future, all they do is croak, ‘socialism.’”

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/16-3

Karl Marks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Man%27s_Burden_(film)

Ah the Beverly Hillbillies, the story of white folk who struck it rich off Black gold i.e. black oil - racist thieves!

Uh, of course I know the causes and origins of WWI and WWII.  Just seems that you all couldn't get your act  together earlier on to nip things in the bud with that guy from Austria.

By the way, the Canadians are part of the Commonwealth and therefore were allies to the UK and all other nations under the Queen's rule. This is not to deny their sacrifices. 

Of course, we saw the same thing happening with "ethnic cleansing" in ex-Yugoslavia.  Most Europeans just shrugged their shoulders and kept on with their shopping...And once again, someone else had to come in and stop the killing.

Excuse me, it was, of course, not the Queen, but the King at the time.

So when did the title of this thread change? And why, for the love of puppies, didn't it get changed to simply 'Thieves in Geneva'. Seriously, its 'Gypsies' we're stuck with now?

Once more, give me a frigging break. Gypsies aren't only thieves, and thieves aren't only gypsies. 

And by the way, no, I've never been pick pocketed. Anywhere I've travelled. Probably because I don't ignore my surroundings when I walk around, I don't leave my wallet on a table as I go to purchase my Starbucks, and I've been lucky. No city is immune from thieves, and if you're under the impression that even dear, perfect Geneva is, or ever was, then perhaps its best to go back into the bunker. 

But, get over the gypsy hate. Its ugly, ignorant, and I can not believe we're 129 comments in, and none have retracted their bull comments. 

Thank you for all the info, but you say in your profile that you’re from Hong Kong.

Take care anyway.  R.   

What's the point?!  Crime happens everywhere and by all ethnic groups.  Are we to believe there is a unique Gypsy stealing gene.  Better inform the human genome project.

Mark calling from planet earth not the flat one.  Actually Mark derives from Mars and so perhaps I'm a Martian.

Of course people who want to drink or take 'illegal' drugs will do so.  Thanks, the heavens have opened up for me.

See post by xutka b. below.

Did I say anything about alcoholics.  That's a disingenuous statement if ever there was one.  Go into politics.

I am for the legalization of all drugs and for a health related approach to abuse.  The war on drugs in America has failed miserably at such a cost like the war on terror.

http://www.drugpolicy.org//

And to keep it light: http://motherjones.com/politics/2005/02/inside-terry-joness-war-war-terror

BTW what goes ha ha thump? A fool laughing his head off.

Groetjes

Oh, and by the way, ThomasNL (and others), the US was involved in WWII long before December 7, 1941...Many of you might be speaking a different language, were it not for the city FDR proclaimed to be "the Arsenal of Democracy" --- hmmmmmmmm.... where was it?  .

                                     DETROIT!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_of_Democracy

Roosevelt referred to Detroit, Michigan as "the great arsenal of democracy" because of the rapid conversion of much of the Detroit-area automotive industry to producearmaments during World War II. The speech was "a call to arm and support" the Allies in Europe, and to a lesser extent China, in their all-out war against Germany and Japan.

Previous policies such as the Neutrality Acts had already begun to be replaced by intensified assistance to the Allies, including thecash and carry policy in 1939 and Destroyers for Bases Agreement in September 1940. The Lend-Lease program began in March 1941, several months after the Arsenal of Democracy address. After the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in December 1941—less than a year after the Arsenal of Democracy address—the United States entered the war.pan.

Lend-Lease (Public Law 77-11)[1] was the name of the program under which theUnited States of America supplied the United Kingdom, the Soviet Union, China,France and other Allied nations with vast amounts of war material between 1941 and 1945. It was signed into law on March 11, 1941, a year and a half after the outbreak of the European war in September 1939, but nine months before the U.S. entrance into the war in December 1941. It was called An Act to Further Promote the Defense of the United States. Although it did not formally establish the United States as a combatant in the war, this act ended the pretense of its neutrality. Hitler recognized this and in response ordered German submarines to attack US vessels such as the SS Robin Moor, an unarmed merchant steamship sunk on 21 May 1941 outside of the war zone.

President Roosevelt signed the Lend-Lease bill into law on 11 March 1941. It permitted him to "sell, transfer title to, exchange, lease, lend, or otherwise dispose of, to any such government [whose defense the President deems vital to the defense of the United States] any defense article". In April, this policy was extended to China as well.[12] Roosevelt approved US $1 billion in Lend-Lease aid to Britain at the end of October 1941.

There was an entirely different program in 1940, the Destroyers for Bases Agreement whereby 50 USN destroyers were transferred to the Royal Navy and the Royal Canadian Navy in exchange for basing rights in the Caribbean. Churchill also granted the US base rights in Bermuda and Newfoundland gratis.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease

nuff said......

That was certainly a pointless and cocky reply to someone making a simple statement.  Thanks for that contribution!

FYI all your thieved cash and jewelry goes to pay for the private jet.....

Dear ‘Translator’ :

While it’s no secret that Her Britannic Majesty Queen Elizabeth II of England is now a senior citizen, she’s not that old.  In WWII, it was her Dad. George VI, who was ‘ruling’ the British Empire.

Best, R.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-d09ViPuJg

Translator corrected herself maybe thirty  seconds after she posted that comment. 

Whereas your comment of prejuice has still gone without self correction. 

Ariel..something for your next tshirt????

... (still trying to get a rise out of you ;-) )

Of course, I corrected myself. Didn't want to face the Corgi Squad...

no...just write "hot stuff"... it will do the trick...

I think I might have hit upon a workable solution to this issue. One thing I’ve noticed throughout this thread are what I would consider to be both the problem and the solution. The problems are homelessness on the part of the travelers and ignorance, sorry to say, from many of us, living in one of the wealthiest cities in the world, as to their culture and way of life. 

So my solution?

Both parties get to know each other more closely.

Many of us have been blessed with good fortune and so I honestly believe, we should open our doors, hearts and minds to their plight. How many of us have a spare room which is unused? I know I do. Instead of it sitting empty, I could see a couple off the street tonight and living in relative comfort. I don’t know about you but I find it heartbreaking to see a poor couple and sometimes even their children sleeping rough. So this is my proposal: 

We set up a meeting point in Geneva where people who are in this position can come on a daily basis and be assigned a place to stay for some time while they get themselves back on their feet. It doesn’t have to be year or even months. Even a weekend when you travel would help. All you’d need to do is get spare house and car keys cut and leave it with an administrator at that place.

The person or persons can then fill in a form promising they’ll respect your place and then they’re given a key and your address. And let’s face it – while you are away, you’ll be safe in the knowledge that not only have you done a good deed but someone is also looking after your home and maybe even be in the position to look after your children or babies. Everybody wins!

They could also drive you to work in the morning and use your car, if not needed of course during the day and maybe, if it’s not inconveniencing them, pick you up in the evening. Think about it – you’ve given a complete stranger your home and car, a sense of worth and freedom and it’s cost you NOTHING! But the spiritual rewards will be priceless! And by actively demonstrating our trust of people who the rest of our community has turned their back on, we WILL change opinions!

You won’t be any financially worse off and it might just involve food for a couple more people but so what? I lot of us would spend what would feed a couple for a week in a night out in Java. The beauty of this idea is that there are so many of us who go on extended business trips or travel that even if you prefer to maintain your privacy you can just let the administrator know when you’ll be gone for a few weeks and you can then let them come and go as they please safe in the knowledge that you’ve given them your apartment and full use of all your amenities – but more than that, you’ll be giving them a sense of security they might not otherwise have had and can now focus on bettering their situation and that of their families.

Maybe we could also apply for a small allowance from the Cantonal government to pay for any additional food for them. The benefits would be the police could focus on real crime, a drop in homelessness, better understanding of the travelers way of life and the sense that by acting TOGETHER we CAN make a difference to this problem! We’re not offering sympathy – just a helping hand to pull them out of the hole they’re in. 

I for one and going down to Cornavin TOMORROW at 7pm to get started. I’ll be standing at the main entrance. I don’t think we should waste any more time if it helps get even financially challenged soul off the street! Let’s show those cynics that we were right and we had nothing to fear but fear itself by letting complete strangers sleep in our homes. Who’s with me? I know Translator, Marksist and Ariel R will want to help. In just a few short weeks, the four of us could be known as pioneers of a better way of living.

Sadly, all too often we’re unwilling to share our good fortune in being in the positions were in. Travelers aren’t bad people – it’s just a case of ‘there but for the grace of God go I’. This is a city of organizations that help people: UN, Red Cross, UNHCR … well, let’s show the rest of the world we’ve also embraced the same ideals that made this such a fantastic place to live!

May your God(s) bless you all.

brilliant Charlie... very funny...

I love bigots!

I dont like the fact that you are assuming I blame one ethnic group just based on a video that shows that they do have very good stealing gene. I could have tried to pick anything but they havent made any documentaries on any other ethnic groups and posted it on youtube.

We all know 99% of these Gypsies have a decent job, pay there taxes and not to mention their huge contribution to society.

Thanks, but as you know, I'm from Detroit and I have to make my daily rounds looking threatening and conspiring with Jews and Marxists to deal with all these non-politically correct people out here....

Just new forms popping up all the time...

Apologies if I gave that impression but I don't think I blamed you for assuming you blame one ethnic group.

Vrede!

HAYES! HAYES! HAYES!

Jason

Learn to recognise parody and tongue in cheek comedy matey... not all that you see hear or read is "true"....

jus' sayin'.... no disrespect meant.

@JasonF

"Anyway, I'm all for only rainy at night only and dying people not, if that's any help..."

Was that translated by Google? Or a new form of poetic syntax?

I do like the "only rainy at night only" but you lost me at the "dying people not." 

And who are the "big people?"  That sounds scary....

That's ok, we look forward to the next attempt...

yeah i missed it... i must be slipping... damn it, more whiskey waiter..

now where has that pikey chav got to

Lexillent

Brilliant idea.  Cannot make 7am but will come later with enough cash to get you a taxi home and you can use my mobile to call the credit card companies.   

Not Groucho Marxists I hope!

thanks friend!

Thats cuz she knows I carry a 5th of vodka in that big purse..

Ta, ever so.  You've chased my blues away.

Gypsies: get over it.

And what if they aint got no cock but a cnut?  Then I'm fcuked!

From World Radio Switzerland's website today...

PostFinance is before the courts for money laundering.

The trial for the Postal Service’s financial services arm started today in Solothurn.

Back in 2005 the administrator of an investment fund withdrew nearly five million francs in cash.

That money then was transferred abroad and no trace was ever found of it again.

Solothurn prosecutors say PostFinance never should have allowed the fund’s administrator to withdraw the cash without knowing where it came from and where it was going.

It appears PostFinance employees had first flagged the case to the company’s anti-money laundering office, which apparently gave the transaction the green light.

Swiss Post says it did nothing wrong and respects Swiss law.

Swisspost?

Just changed my schedule and will join you as soon as I "borrow"l the keys of the property and cars of the Peaky and all those who thanked him...

Hey, count me in. Sounds like a helluva lot more fun and enjoyable than chatting with the rednecks in here. 

Who said anything about "Geneva" romance....

I was thinking more along the lines of the "back of my pikey love nest shag caravan"...

(ok Joke... it would be doomed from the get go since I'd never manage to pronounce your name anyhow.)

Ah, Charlie....You know, it's better not to try to impress any women who posts publicly that soooooooooo many men want to romance her and that her box is full of invitations to their shitty little parties..CAUSE SHE'S FAR TOO BUSY to post anything remotely intelligent....

A Guiness on me afer your shot from JasonF

Hey Shootka. This is a thread about gypsies. Not  your social whims. Or how many pictures of drunk chicks in England you can find. (and how is that relevant again?)

There you go trying to get noticed again! Why don't you just take your intellect, logic, your religion, your love of gypsies/pikies/etc. and jet back to Hawaii...

PS Have sent many invitations to your mailbox but I guess it is full from those of other gypsy-huggers...

Well, thanks for the compliment on my age. 

Maybe you've encountered such reactions from the 300 million Americans you've clearly met and interacted with because we like to stay on topic on threads. 

And darling, I hate to point out the obvious (again). But we're in Geneva. That makes us American girls *also* foreign. 

*back to the topic on hand*

Yes, you are. 

Hey translator. Why don't you just go ahead and take your intelligence, age, awesome sense of humor and fly back to your apparently POS city of Detroit? 

Cuz seriously, I'm SOOOOOO SOOOOOO sick of reading open minded, intelligent, and well thought out 'monologues' from you. How DARE you write something longer than two sentences on issues that matter to other thinking, carbon based creatures?

I'm so disgusted, I think I might just go out and hug a banker. Ugh.

i have baby oil...and can supply venue for "cat fight"....

(No gypsies allowed...they're smelly)