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Internships (NGOs and International Organization) how to survive and pass to the next step: a real job?

Hi everyone!


I thought it would be good for me to post this in the forum, to share my experience and see whether any of you has some suggestions and recommandations for the huge interns community in GVA.


I am currently doing my second internship in a NGO, and getting a bit frustrated and scared, since I do not now if it will ever be possible to pass from an unpaid work to a paid one. It seems NGOs and Int. Org. are only hiring highly experienced staff, while interns are welcomed for 6 months max.  I am 28, and I cant stop asking myself for how long I will need to work for free before I will actually be considered for a paid position.


Also, I never met anyone who passed from an unpaid internship to a paid position in this field. Is there anything wrong with hoping to make a living out of human rights and related? 


I hope someone could help me seeing things clearly, and keep the motivation up.


robi


 

The text you are quoting:

Hi everyone!


I thought it would be good for me to post this in the forum, to share my experience and see whether any of you has some suggestions and recommandations for the huge interns community in GVA.


I am currently doing my second internship in a NGO, and getting a bit frustrated and scared, since I do not now if it will ever be possible to pass from an unpaid work to a paid one. It seems NGOs and Int. Org. are only hiring highly experienced staff, while interns are welcomed for 6 months max.  I am 28, and I cant stop asking myself for how long I will need to work for free before I will actually be considered for a paid position.


Also, I never met anyone who passed from an unpaid internship to a paid position in this field. Is there anything wrong with hoping to make a living out of human rights and related? 


I hope someone could help me seeing things clearly, and keep the motivation up.


robi


 


roberta mApr 26, 2011 @ 17:13
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Re: Internships (NGOs and International Organization) how to survive and pass to the next step: a real job?
Post 1

i hate motivation with open lies, well the reality is, to pass from unpaid internship to paid internship its like very rare unless you have some close,personal references,(especially nationality does matter) especially the private NGO's, They are big scam, They ripoff your skills, time and most of all your strength. They have money to give paid positions holders, bonuses, Money to have big parties, first class Air travel and when it comes to paying few bucks to a hard working internee, they go buuuuuuuuuh. Because after 6 months like me or you another stupid person comes and then for another 6 months works for free. There is nothing like free lunch and unpaid internee. 


Well for your motivation! Instead of counting months and time, i would suggest you to work on making relations as much as possible. That's the one of the key to success.

The text you are quoting:

i hate motivation with open lies, well the reality is, to pass from unpaid internship to paid internship its like very rare unless you have some close,personal references,(especially nationality does matter) especially the private NGO's, They are big scam, They ripoff your skills, time and most of all your strength. They have money to give paid positions holders, bonuses, Money to have big parties, first class Air travel and when it comes to paying few bucks to a hard working internee, they go buuuuuuuuuh. Because after 6 months like me or you another stupid person comes and then for another 6 months works for free. There is nothing like free lunch and unpaid internee. 


Well for your motivation! Instead of counting months and time, i would suggest you to work on making relations as much as possible. That's the one of the key to success.


waqas s, Apr 26, 2011 @ 18:47
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Post 2

Perhaps on a slightly less cynical note, this my take:


1. NGOs like any other company typically hire from within when they can.


2. Yes, it is who you know as much as how you perform in the job market. So definitely network as much as you can.


3. Yes, it is possible to find employment with an NGO in Geneva but expect to be paid a good few percentage points less for the same type of work with a "for profit" - unless of course you are the head honcho of the NGO when your salary will be roughly equivalent of that of a head manager of any regular company.


4. While it is certainly frustrating to be working as an Intern without pay, the more experience (especially with recognised NGOs if this is where your passion lies) the better your resume will look to potential employers.


5. Yes, NGOs sometimes choose to run opulent fundraisers ("big parties"). This is a decision they make in the interest of gathering more money for their respective causes not really in the interest of screwing the little guy (interns) out of a salary. 


6. Yes, you are pretty readily replaceable as an intern as there are lots of just-out-of college folks scrambling for just these types of resume-building positions- even unpaid. So, there is no need to turn intern work into a paid work.


7. My advice, do your work as an intern to the absolute best of your ability. Make nice with all your colleagues in the office. Make it known that you are looking for a paid position when your internship is done, either with your current NGO or another in a similar domain. It is a small world and you would be surprised by the intercommunication between the various organizations.


If you don't manage to find something in the NGO world consider taking something in another sector/domain that will at least keep you in Geneva and keep your eyes on the job sites while definitely keeping contact with your old employers about potential openings with them or with sister organisations. 


 


Good luck


 

The text you are quoting:

Perhaps on a slightly less cynical note, this my take:


1. NGOs like any other company typically hire from within when they can.


2. Yes, it is who you know as much as how you perform in the job market. So definitely network as much as you can.


3. Yes, it is possible to find employment with an NGO in Geneva but expect to be paid a good few percentage points less for the same type of work with a "for profit" - unless of course you are the head honcho of the NGO when your salary will be roughly equivalent of that of a head manager of any regular company.


4. While it is certainly frustrating to be working as an Intern without pay, the more experience (especially with recognised NGOs if this is where your passion lies) the better your resume will look to potential employers.


5. Yes, NGOs sometimes choose to run opulent fundraisers ("big parties"). This is a decision they make in the interest of gathering more money for their respective causes not really in the interest of screwing the little guy (interns) out of a salary. 


6. Yes, you are pretty readily replaceable as an intern as there are lots of just-out-of college folks scrambling for just these types of resume-building positions- even unpaid. So, there is no need to turn intern work into a paid work.


7. My advice, do your work as an intern to the absolute best of your ability. Make nice with all your colleagues in the office. Make it known that you are looking for a paid position when your internship is done, either with your current NGO or another in a similar domain. It is a small world and you would be surprised by the intercommunication between the various organizations.


If you don't manage to find something in the NGO world consider taking something in another sector/domain that will at least keep you in Geneva and keep your eyes on the job sites while definitely keeping contact with your old employers about potential openings with them or with sister organisations. 


 


Good luck


 


Tracy M, Apr 26, 2011 @ 19:41
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Re: Internships (NGOs and International Organization) how to survive and pass to the next step: a real job?
Post 3

On #5 " Yes, NGOs sometimes choose to run opulent fundraisers ("big parties"). This is a decision they make in the interest of gathering more money for their respective causes not really in the interest of screwing the little guy (interns) out of a salary. "


In my experience of government work that includes evaluating ngo performance, ngos spend too much on top salaries and not enough in the field. Some are quite poorly managed and the management rarely cares about interns or promoting them.


It is very easy for ngos to get away with poor management and even, in some cases, corruption, because the Swiss will rarely prosecute these cases. Fortunately, some organizations are monitoring corruption and mismanagement within ngos.  http://www.u4.no/helpdesk/helpdesk/queries/query82.cfm


If you want to get hired in an ngo, international organization, try your best to network with staff of your country's delegation here in Geneva. Attend as many conferences and receptions as you are able and try introducing yourself  to your country's delegation staff at these events.


Good luck!

The text you are quoting:

On #5 " Yes, NGOs sometimes choose to run opulent fundraisers ("big parties"). This is a decision they make in the interest of gathering more money for their respective causes not really in the interest of screwing the little guy (interns) out of a salary. "


In my experience of government work that includes evaluating ngo performance, ngos spend too much on top salaries and not enough in the field. Some are quite poorly managed and the management rarely cares about interns or promoting them.


It is very easy for ngos to get away with poor management and even, in some cases, corruption, because the Swiss will rarely prosecute these cases. Fortunately, some organizations are monitoring corruption and mismanagement within ngos.  http://www.u4.no/helpdesk/helpdesk/queries/query82.cfm


If you want to get hired in an ngo, international organization, try your best to network with staff of your country's delegation here in Geneva. Attend as many conferences and receptions as you are able and try introducing yourself  to your country's delegation staff at these events.


Good luck!


Translator, Apr 26, 2011 @ 21:00
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Post 4

On corruption and the Global Fund for AIDS, Malaria, and TB


http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14788621,00.html


Suspected fraud at Center for Humanitarian Dialogue


http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/ud/Whats-new/news/2010/chd_fraud.html?id=613426

The text you are quoting:

On corruption and the Global Fund for AIDS, Malaria, and TB


http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14788621,00.html


Suspected fraud at Center for Humanitarian Dialogue


http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/ud/Whats-new/news/2010/chd_fraud.html?id=613426


Translator, Apr 26, 2011 @ 21:14
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Post 5

On corruption and the Global Fund for AIDS, Malaria, and TB

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14788621,00.html

Suspected fraud at Center for Humanitarian Dialogue

http://www.regjeringen.no/en/dep/ud/Whats-new/news/2010/chd_fraud.html?id=613426


Apr 26, 11 21:14

(a) the Global Fund is not an NGO.


(b) You could make a more balanced assessment of what you're mentioning if you also read from the source (rather than only reading inaccurate reporting). (http://www.theglobalfund.org/en/howprotect/?lang=en).


(c) the Global Fund is one of the few international organizations that have PAID internships.


(d) Many of the interns at the Global Fund do move to other (non-internship) positions.


More about internships here: http://www.theglobalfund.org/en/employment/internship/?lang=en



Hope this is useful.


 

The text you are quoting:

(a) the Global Fund is not an NGO.


(b) You could make a more balanced assessment of what you're mentioning if you also read from the source (rather than only reading inaccurate reporting). (http://www.theglobalfund.org/en/howprotect/?lang=en).


(c) the Global Fund is one of the few international organizations that have PAID internships.


(d) Many of the interns at the Global Fund do move to other (non-internship) positions.


More about internships here: http://www.theglobalfund.org/en/employment/internship/?lang=en



Hope this is useful.


 


Marcela Rojo, Apr 26, 2011 @ 21:53
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Post 6

Having worked for more than 20 years, primarily in the humanitarian/ NGO sector I do not argue with Translator's summation of the general failings of NGOs. It would be wonderful if NGOs were fully altruistic and everybody worked for free or if not for free for just enough to cover their basic expenses. Ideally all the money collected would go to their select causes. However, humans are human and whether you consider it dishonorable, depressing or just realistic people need/want to be fiscally rewarded for their work. And it has been generally confirmed that people work better when they are financially appreciated. 


Again as humans, temptation and eventual corruption does exist, and it is certainly  much more disturbing when it hits what is supposed to be fully altruistic organisations. However, I do not think it wrong to appreciate these organisations for the good work that they do accomplish while also acknowledging human failings. This does not mean that we should turn a blind eye to corruption or accept it.


Just my opinion. 

The text you are quoting:

Having worked for more than 20 years, primarily in the humanitarian/ NGO sector I do not argue with Translator's summation of the general failings of NGOs. It would be wonderful if NGOs were fully altruistic and everybody worked for free or if not for free for just enough to cover their basic expenses. Ideally all the money collected would go to their select causes. However, humans are human and whether you consider it dishonorable, depressing or just realistic people need/want to be fiscally rewarded for their work. And it has been generally confirmed that people work better when they are financially appreciated. 


Again as humans, temptation and eventual corruption does exist, and it is certainly  much more disturbing when it hits what is supposed to be fully altruistic organisations. However, I do not think it wrong to appreciate these organisations for the good work that they do accomplish while also acknowledging human failings. This does not mean that we should turn a blind eye to corruption or accept it.


Just my opinion. 


Tracy M, Apr 26, 2011 @ 21:52
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Post 7

a)  I understand that the Global Fund is not an ngo. The thread topic concerns ngos and ios.


b) I understand fully how the Global Fund promotes itself and how it says it  protects funding. Unfortunately these measures have been insufficient.  


The source, in this case, the Global Fund, has lost money through insufficient protection measures.  Please correct me if I am wrong but has money been misspent or not?  Please indicate where the reporting is inaccurate.


The Global Fund itself admits that some 34 million dollars has gone unaccounted for:  http://www.theglobalfund.org/en/pressreleases/?pr=pr_110124


c) The Global Fund can well afford to have PAID internships with a budget of US 13 billion. That is not something it should pat itself on the back for. It is normal that people should be paid for their labor.


d)  The Global Fund, in several reports, blames the media for "unfair reporting," thereby attacking the messenger.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12294232


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/sarah-boseley-global-health/2011/jan/28/aids-infectiousdiseases


If the reports of corruption at the Global Fund were not serious, it is doubtful that a major donor such as Germany would have suspended funding. 


It will be very interesting to see what is uncovered with audits of major nations receiving funds.


Yes, the Global Fund does some good work. Yes, one could say, as the Global Fund does, that these missing funds amount to some 0.3 per cent of the total budget.  Still 34 million dollars is a signficant amount of money. And it is highly unlikely that any of it will be recovered.


By all means, work at an ngo/io if you can.  You will get a very good education in the way that that world  actually functions.

The text you are quoting:

a)  I understand that the Global Fund is not an ngo. The thread topic concerns ngos and ios.


b) I understand fully how the Global Fund promotes itself and how it says it  protects funding. Unfortunately these measures have been insufficient.  


The source, in this case, the Global Fund, has lost money through insufficient protection measures.  Please correct me if I am wrong but has money been misspent or not?  Please indicate where the reporting is inaccurate.


The Global Fund itself admits that some 34 million dollars has gone unaccounted for:  http://www.theglobalfund.org/en/pressreleases/?pr=pr_110124


c) The Global Fund can well afford to have PAID internships with a budget of US 13 billion. That is not something it should pat itself on the back for. It is normal that people should be paid for their labor.


d)  The Global Fund, in several reports, blames the media for "unfair reporting," thereby attacking the messenger.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12294232


http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/sarah-boseley-global-health/2011/jan/28/aids-infectiousdiseases


If the reports of corruption at the Global Fund were not serious, it is doubtful that a major donor such as Germany would have suspended funding. 


It will be very interesting to see what is uncovered with audits of major nations receiving funds.


Yes, the Global Fund does some good work. Yes, one could say, as the Global Fund does, that these missing funds amount to some 0.3 per cent of the total budget.  Still 34 million dollars is a signficant amount of money. And it is highly unlikely that any of it will be recovered.


By all means, work at an ngo/io if you can.  You will get a very good education in the way that that world  actually functions.


Translator, Apr 26, 2011 @ 22:15
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Post 8

Sorry, I believe the budget is closer to 21 billion.

The text you are quoting:

Sorry, I believe the budget is closer to 21 billion.


Translator, Apr 26, 2011 @ 22:45
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Post 9

a)  I understand that the Global Fund is not an ngo. The thread topic concerns ngos and ios.

b) I understand fully how the Global Fund promotes itself and how it says it  protects funding. Unfortunately these measures have been insufficient.  

The source, in this case, the Global Fund, has lost money through insufficient protection measures.  Please correct me if I am wrong but has money been misspent or not?  Please indicate where the reporting is inaccurate.

The Global Fund itself admits that some 34 million dollars has gone unaccounted for:  http://www.theglobalfund.org/en/pressreleases/?pr=pr_110124

c) The Global Fund can well afford to have PAID internships with a budget of US 13 billion. That is not something it should pat itself on the back for. It is normal that people should be paid for their labor.

d)  The Global Fund, in several reports, blames the media for "unfair reporting," thereby attacking the messenger.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12294232

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/sarah-boseley-global-health/2011/jan/28/aids-infectiousdiseases

If the reports of corruption at the Global Fund were not serious, it is doubtful that a major donor such as Germany would have suspended funding. 

It will be very interesting to see what is uncovered with audits of major nations receiving funds.

Yes, the Global Fund does some good work. Yes, one could say, as the Global Fund does, that these missing funds amount to some 0.3 per cent of the total budget.  Still 34 million dollars is a signficant amount of money. And it is highly unlikely that any of it will be recovered.

By all means, work at an ngo/io if you can.  You will get a very good education in the way that that world  actually functions.


Apr 26, 11 22:15

I'd really like to take the time to respond to the issues one by one, but I'm not in this forum in an official capacity, so I will go through some of the issues quickly. I just wanted to share the information about internships as I think it's unfair that in many organizations in Geneva internships are unpaid. Internships are a great way to learn but as Roberta mentioned, you cannot endelessly work doing internships for free.


A couple of points then: the Sarah Boseley article you mention also gives reasons as to why Germany and other donors have suspended funds to the GF, which are not related to the investigations. Also, from the monies that are unaccounted for, so far $7 million have been recovered, so countries are indeed paying back. The Global Fund IS the messenger, no media has uncovered anything, it was the Global Fund who reported on these issues in the first place...so it's the Fund that is being shot, not the media.


Last but not least, the Global Fund has committed US$21 billion to 140 countries, that's not the budget for internships (...). The Secretariat budget is covered by the interest on the contributions so every dollar that tax payers contributes to the Fund goes to the programs in the countries.


Anyway, I have to go now, but feel free to drop me a line and stop by a coffee at the Global Fund, so you can see how things work.


Best, M.

The text you are quoting:

I'd really like to take the time to respond to the issues one by one, but I'm not in this forum in an official capacity, so I will go through some of the issues quickly. I just wanted to share the information about internships as I think it's unfair that in many organizations in Geneva internships are unpaid. Internships are a great way to learn but as Roberta mentioned, you cannot endelessly work doing internships for free.


A couple of points then: the Sarah Boseley article you mention also gives reasons as to why Germany and other donors have suspended funds to the GF, which are not related to the investigations. Also, from the monies that are unaccounted for, so far $7 million have been recovered, so countries are indeed paying back. The Global Fund IS the messenger, no media has uncovered anything, it was the Global Fund who reported on these issues in the first place...so it's the Fund that is being shot, not the media.


Last but not least, the Global Fund has committed US$21 billion to 140 countries, that's not the budget for internships (...). The Secretariat budget is covered by the interest on the contributions so every dollar that tax payers contributes to the Fund goes to the programs in the countries.


Anyway, I have to go now, but feel free to drop me a line and stop by a coffee at the Global Fund, so you can see how things work.


Best, M.


Marcela Rojo, Apr 27, 2011 @ 09:05
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Post 10

The Global Fund has been operating as an independent entity since January 1st, 2009.  it was before that time, from its inception in 2002, under the aegis of WHO.


It was only last fall that the inspector general hired a senior former US federal prosecutor to investigate thoroughly the Fund's spending.  The Global Fund itself notes that one of its major partners, United Nations Development Program (UNDP) is a


"...severe impediment to the completion of comprehensive and successful investigations whenever UNDP acts as a recipient of grant funds.  Citing privileges and special immunity, UNDP has refused to allow  the  OIG access to books, records and staff, despite the fact that it is the Global Fund  grant funds that are at risk of misappropriation and loss."


http://www.theglobalfund.org/documents/board/22/BM22_09OIG_Report_en.pdf


It is about time that the Global Fund took on these issues.


"The overhaul comes amid growing frustration that the fund’s own board of directors has failed to act more effectively in response to long-standing concerns over management, including those highlighted in an ex­ternal evaluation two years ago, which criticised weak procurement practices."


"A review by the Financial Times showed that many concerns flagged in Mr Parsons’ reports had not been picked up either by staff in the fund’s headquarters or by the “local fund agents”, the external staff in each country – often from leading auditing firms – who monitor spending."


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bd2d513a-2fcd-11e0-91f8-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1KfN7Dq4O


It is good that some funds have been paid back. Where is it coming from, though?


This is what H.E. Dirk Niebel - German Development Minister was quoted as saying:


"I take the accusations made in the media concerning corruption and breach of fiduciary duty at the Global Fund very seriously and I am sure that the Fund will clarify the matter without delay. Germany is one of the biggest donors to the Global Fund. I have therefore seen to it that a special review will be held. I have frozen all further disbursements to the Fund until matters have been fully clarified, and I will ask a representative of the Fund to come to the BMZ to discuss the matter."


The Global Fund, just as many other IOs and NGOs, have had, and will continue to have issues with corruption. They should not be "shot" for reporting their audits nor should they be praised. The money is not theirs and they have a duty to spend it on those who suffer from those diseases.

The text you are quoting:

The Global Fund has been operating as an independent entity since January 1st, 2009.  it was before that time, from its inception in 2002, under the aegis of WHO.


It was only last fall that the inspector general hired a senior former US federal prosecutor to investigate thoroughly the Fund's spending.  The Global Fund itself notes that one of its major partners, United Nations Development Program (UNDP) is a


"...severe impediment to the completion of comprehensive and successful investigations whenever UNDP acts as a recipient of grant funds.  Citing privileges and special immunity, UNDP has refused to allow  the  OIG access to books, records and staff, despite the fact that it is the Global Fund  grant funds that are at risk of misappropriation and loss."


http://www.theglobalfund.org/documents/board/22/BM22_09OIG_Report_en.pdf


It is about time that the Global Fund took on these issues.


"The overhaul comes amid growing frustration that the fund’s own board of directors has failed to act more effectively in response to long-standing concerns over management, including those highlighted in an ex­ternal evaluation two years ago, which criticised weak procurement practices."


"A review by the Financial Times showed that many concerns flagged in Mr Parsons’ reports had not been picked up either by staff in the fund’s headquarters or by the “local fund agents”, the external staff in each country – often from leading auditing firms – who monitor spending."


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bd2d513a-2fcd-11e0-91f8-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1KfN7Dq4O


It is good that some funds have been paid back. Where is it coming from, though?


This is what H.E. Dirk Niebel - German Development Minister was quoted as saying:


"I take the accusations made in the media concerning corruption and breach of fiduciary duty at the Global Fund very seriously and I am sure that the Fund will clarify the matter without delay. Germany is one of the biggest donors to the Global Fund. I have therefore seen to it that a special review will be held. I have frozen all further disbursements to the Fund until matters have been fully clarified, and I will ask a representative of the Fund to come to the BMZ to discuss the matter."


The Global Fund, just as many other IOs and NGOs, have had, and will continue to have issues with corruption. They should not be "shot" for reporting their audits nor should they be praised. The money is not theirs and they have a duty to spend it on those who suffer from those diseases.


Translator, Apr 27, 2011 @ 09:42
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Post 11

Perhaps on a slightly less cynical note, this my take:

1. NGOs like any other company typically hire from within when they can.

2. Yes, it is who you know as much as how you perform in the job market. So definitely network as much as you can.

3. Yes, it is possible to find employment with an NGO in Geneva but expect to be paid a good few percentage points less for the same type of work with a "for profit" - unless of course you are the head honcho of the NGO when your salary will be roughly equivalent of that of a head manager of any regular company.

4. While it is certainly frustrating to be working as an Intern without pay, the more experience (especially with recognised NGOs if this is where your passion lies) the better your resume will look to potential employers.

5. Yes, NGOs sometimes choose to run opulent fundraisers ("big parties"). This is a decision they make in the interest of gathering more money for their respective causes not really in the interest of screwing the little guy (interns) out of a salary. 

6. Yes, you are pretty readily replaceable as an intern as there are lots of just-out-of college folks scrambling for just these types of resume-building positions- even unpaid. So, there is no need to turn intern work into a paid work.

7. My advice, do your work as an intern to the absolute best of your ability. Make nice with all your colleagues in the office. Make it known that you are looking for a paid position when your internship is done, either with your current NGO or another in a similar domain. It is a small world and you would be surprised by the intercommunication between the various organizations.

If you don't manage to find something in the NGO world consider taking something in another sector/domain that will at least keep you in Geneva and keep your eyes on the job sites while definitely keeping contact with your old employers about potential openings with them or with sister organisations. 

 

Good luck

 


Apr 26, 11 19:41

Very well said.

The text you are quoting:

Very well said.


TheOmegaMan, Apr 27, 2011 @ 21:48
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Post 12

Perhaps on a slightly less cynical note, this my take:

1. NGOs like any other company typically hire from within when they can.

2. Yes, it is who you know as much as how you perform in the job market. So definitely network as much as you can.

3. Yes, it is possible to find employment with an NGO in Geneva but expect to be paid a good few percentage points less for the same type of work with a "for profit" - unless of course you are the head honcho of the NGO when your salary will be roughly equivalent of that of a head manager of any regular company.

4. While it is certainly frustrating to be working as an Intern without pay, the more experience (especially with recognised NGOs if this is where your passion lies) the better your resume will look to potential employers.

5. Yes, NGOs sometimes choose to run opulent fundraisers ("big parties"). This is a decision they make in the interest of gathering more money for their respective causes not really in the interest of screwing the little guy (interns) out of a salary. 

6. Yes, you are pretty readily replaceable as an intern as there are lots of just-out-of college folks scrambling for just these types of resume-building positions- even unpaid. So, there is no need to turn intern work into a paid work.

7. My advice, do your work as an intern to the absolute best of your ability. Make nice with all your colleagues in the office. Make it known that you are looking for a paid position when your internship is done, either with your current NGO or another in a similar domain. It is a small world and you would be surprised by the intercommunication between the various organizations.

If you don't manage to find something in the NGO world consider taking something in another sector/domain that will at least keep you in Geneva and keep your eyes on the job sites while definitely keeping contact with your old employers about potential openings with them or with sister organisations. 

 

Good luck

 


Apr 26, 11 19:41

Tracy, I believe there are two things going on really. One is the realistic picture, which you've built of NGOs as organizations which have to survive and don't have much funding. Agreed - no one really expects that these organizations are the ideal entity where only the goal and the cause matter. They operate, they have budgets, etc. etc.


But I think something much worse goes on in the non-profit/intl organizations world in Geneva - something, which transcends the realistic picture of NGOs as organizations like any other. They are worse - and that has no relation whatsoever to lack of funding - it has to do with quality of management, professionalism and yes, a bit of ethics.


The top management in NGOs in Geneva - as much as I've encountered - are usually old, out of touch people who tend to be agist. I am going to get personal here because it is very frustrating when I encounter that attitude again and again so forgive me for the personal examples and stories. I have four years of paid working experience, experience at UN level of managing a 4-people team, got my own business and a few books behind my back - and yes, people from NGOs or UN agencies still call me or write me emails asking if I want to take up an internship with them, or if I want to just volunteer for a little bit. Still. Isn't that offensive? Why wouldn't that person volunteer and we can switch places if it's so nice? So, it's not experience or accomplishment which is the measure - it's really about: 'hm, let me see how much I can sqeeze out of people'. Especially young people. Intl organizations/ngo staff have also told me: you will never find anything, who will take you - just come work for us as an intern. Haha really? Or another NGO Sec General who said I can never make a career in that field so I just have to go work for them for free. Or yet, a third example - another NGO Sec Gen who said no one would take me because I have no experience (after reviewing my CV) and insisted on half a salary. Haha really grandpa? and this is why you selected me out of a few hundred applications - because I dont have experience? And now that you see I got the qualities you just wanna twist my arms in such unprofessional way? You just have to laugh off those people. There is a certain ammount of respect anyone owes anyone, especially in professional settings. My favorite line is: sure, come here first, sign and then we'll negotiate. Or in a contract 'benefits: upon negotiation'. What is also annoying is how surprised they become when you stand up for yourself and tell them: bye bye, im outta here. Like you have to take anything they dish out. The most annoying thing is that you know very well there there is money in those organizations.


There is certainly an exploitation aspect and partcular dishonesty going on. I've heard stories when an intern is told from the very beggining - start working for me for free for a bit, and then we will see what we can do. It's BS. Especially in UN agencies, you have to know this is a lie and the person telling you that knows it too. Generally, and apart from a few exceptions, interns as a rule cannot be hired 6 months after completing a UN internship. And this is known.


I've heard horrible stories about a woman getting a contract with a human rights NGO and when the first salary time came she was told she would be paid only a few hundreds for this month (rather than the thousands per month in the contract) because her husband works in a bank, so she will be okay. Whaaat? On another occasion, this time with me, at an interview at the ILO a potential employer asked me what my parents do because, he told me, he was trying to figure out if I had support so that he could hire me as an intern and not staff although my qualifications were enough for a staff position. How is what parents or husband do relevant at all??


The UN also tries to pay consultants below the minumum for Geneva - things I've seen and heard are just disgusting.There is no respect for young people. A guy worked for months on a report, as they were 'waiting for the consultant contract' and in the end did not get paid a dime by the UN.


Robi, my advice is that internship experience does not help - it's not the case of the more, the better. I have to disagree with Tracy on that one - employers look at a resume and when they see internship - internship - internship they think to themselves: 'hmmm, how about another internship? Okay, perfect!' On top of that Robi keep in mind that at the UN, internship experience in or out of the UN, DOES NOT count as experience. I know a brilliant guy - Harvard educated international lawyer - who fell into the trap of UN internships and in the end the UN considered he had 0 years experience, while he has 2 years. Just say no to internships even if it takes a few months of doing nothing, because while you are working for other people for free and doing yet your fifth internship you are incurring missed opportunity costs - losing time instead of applying for positions and attending events.You have to stand up for yourself.


I believe there is also another aspect. Very often the interns are better than the actual staff who are actually only recruiting brilliant interns to do their own job. Of course, not everywhere - some managers are great. But really looking at international organizations, the paid staff is more often than not average, not brilliant or very talanted as the interns whom they recruit. And sometimes very lazy without a very strong work ethic and professional qualities. They just happened to know the right people - that's all. One unit in the ILO (different from the interview ILO guy) has 4 Italians out of 8 staff team. Guess what's the nationality of the manager?


Finally, Tracy I disagree that not paying interns has nothing to do with the intention of screwing the little guy. There is certainly an underlying agist structure where the little guy is just not respected. You don't have to pay 'kids', right? And anyone below 30 counts as a kid, it seems. Keep in mind also that many high level non-profit managers come from cultures where exploitation and age hiarchies are the norm. NGOs do have money. Secretary Generals in some cases get 20,000 franks per month.


All in all, they run on promises, and because of you.

The text you are quoting:

Tracy, I believe there are two things going on really. One is the realistic picture, which you've built of NGOs as organizations which have to survive and don't have much funding. Agreed - no one really expects that these organizations are the ideal entity where only the goal and the cause matter. They operate, they have budgets, etc. etc.


But I think something much worse goes on in the non-profit/intl organizations world in Geneva - something, which transcends the realistic picture of NGOs as organizations like any other. They are worse - and that has no relation whatsoever to lack of funding - it has to do with quality of management, professionalism and yes, a bit of ethics.


The top management in NGOs in Geneva - as much as I've encountered - are usually old, out of touch people who tend to be agist. I am going to get personal here because it is very frustrating when I encounter that attitude again and again so forgive me for the personal examples and stories. I have four years of paid working experience, experience at UN level of managing a 4-people team, got my own business and a few books behind my back - and yes, people from NGOs or UN agencies still call me or write me emails asking if I want to take up an internship with them, or if I want to just volunteer for a little bit. Still. Isn't that offensive? Why wouldn't that person volunteer and we can switch places if it's so nice? So, it's not experience or accomplishment which is the measure - it's really about: 'hm, let me see how much I can sqeeze out of people'. Especially young people. Intl organizations/ngo staff have also told me: you will never find anything, who will take you - just come work for us as an intern. Haha really? Or another NGO Sec General who said I can never make a career in that field so I just have to go work for them for free. Or yet, a third example - another NGO Sec Gen who said no one would take me because I have no experience (after reviewing my CV) and insisted on half a salary. Haha really grandpa? and this is why you selected me out of a few hundred applications - because I dont have experience? And now that you see I got the qualities you just wanna twist my arms in such unprofessional way? You just have to laugh off those people. There is a certain ammount of respect anyone owes anyone, especially in professional settings. My favorite line is: sure, come here first, sign and then we'll negotiate. Or in a contract 'benefits: upon negotiation'. What is also annoying is how surprised they become when you stand up for yourself and tell them: bye bye, im outta here. Like you have to take anything they dish out. The most annoying thing is that you know very well there there is money in those organizations.


There is certainly an exploitation aspect and partcular dishonesty going on. I've heard stories when an intern is told from the very beggining - start working for me for free for a bit, and then we will see what we can do. It's BS. Especially in UN agencies, you have to know this is a lie and the person telling you that knows it too. Generally, and apart from a few exceptions, interns as a rule cannot be hired 6 months after completing a UN internship. And this is known.


I've heard horrible stories about a woman getting a contract with a human rights NGO and when the first salary time came she was told she would be paid only a few hundreds for this month (rather than the thousands per month in the contract) because her husband works in a bank, so she will be okay. Whaaat? On another occasion, this time with me, at an interview at the ILO a potential employer asked me what my parents do because, he told me, he was trying to figure out if I had support so that he could hire me as an intern and not staff although my qualifications were enough for a staff position. How is what parents or husband do relevant at all??


The UN also tries to pay consultants below the minumum for Geneva - things I've seen and heard are just disgusting.There is no respect for young people. A guy worked for months on a report, as they were 'waiting for the consultant contract' and in the end did not get paid a dime by the UN.


Robi, my advice is that internship experience does not help - it's not the case of the more, the better. I have to disagree with Tracy on that one - employers look at a resume and when they see internship - internship - internship they think to themselves: 'hmmm, how about another internship? Okay, perfect!' On top of that Robi keep in mind that at the UN, internship experience in or out of the UN, DOES NOT count as experience. I know a brilliant guy - Harvard educated international lawyer - who fell into the trap of UN internships and in the end the UN considered he had 0 years experience, while he has 2 years. Just say no to internships even if it takes a few months of doing nothing, because while you are working for other people for free and doing yet your fifth internship you are incurring missed opportunity costs - losing time instead of applying for positions and attending events.You have to stand up for yourself.


I believe there is also another aspect. Very often the interns are better than the actual staff who are actually only recruiting brilliant interns to do their own job. Of course, not everywhere - some managers are great. But really looking at international organizations, the paid staff is more often than not average, not brilliant or very talanted as the interns whom they recruit. And sometimes very lazy without a very strong work ethic and professional qualities. They just happened to know the right people - that's all. One unit in the ILO (different from the interview ILO guy) has 4 Italians out of 8 staff team. Guess what's the nationality of the manager?


Finally, Tracy I disagree that not paying interns has nothing to do with the intention of screwing the little guy. There is certainly an underlying agist structure where the little guy is just not respected. You don't have to pay 'kids', right? And anyone below 30 counts as a kid, it seems. Keep in mind also that many high level non-profit managers come from cultures where exploitation and age hiarchies are the norm. NGOs do have money. Secretary Generals in some cases get 20,000 franks per month.


All in all, they run on promises, and because of you.


Ivet, Apr 28, 2011 @ 00:50
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Post 13

Internships can help your career, but one is sufficient. Dont let yourself be exploited for any cause other than your own.  


 

The text you are quoting:

Internships can help your career, but one is sufficient. Dont let yourself be exploited for any cause other than your own.  


 


Translator, Apr 28, 2011 @ 07:06
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Post 14

Hello Roberta,


back to your question...


What is your background?
I tried to look at your 'Profile' in Glocals but it is not 'open to all'.


I see from your posting that your English is excellent.
Do you also speak/write in French?  Any other languages?


What jobs have you been doing as intern?


I do not wish to mislead you... I do not have any job to offer,
but perhaps either myself or others, could think of the most
appropriate leads.


Best of luck!

The text you are quoting:

Hello Roberta,


back to your question...


What is your background?
I tried to look at your 'Profile' in Glocals but it is not 'open to all'.


I see from your posting that your English is excellent.
Do you also speak/write in French?  Any other languages?


What jobs have you been doing as intern?


I do not wish to mislead you... I do not have any job to offer,
but perhaps either myself or others, could think of the most
appropriate leads.


Best of luck!


nomades, Apr 28, 2011 @ 11:53
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Post 15

I would like to thank you all for sharing your experiences and ideas, and all the information on the Global Fund :)  By the way, I took a look to their website, and apparently only students enrolled in an university programme are eligible to apply to their internship, and anyway those are only for 3 months. I think it works the same for all UN agencies, but what about after one graduates?


The thing is really how to get into NGOs and Int. Organ. when one has around 1 - 3 years experience, thus being in a kinda limbo, where one has more experience to be "just" an intern, but still (apparently) not enough for a paid position.


I do have some stories I would like to share. For example in my previous organization I was denied some tasks because  not african, or not african looking: I did not represent the image of the organization.. I do agree with Ivet "many high level non-profit managers come from cultures where exploitation and age hiarchies are the norm", I noticed this many times when I worked in Egypt, India and also here with people with African background, neverhteless I would not consider Italians and Italian culture much different: I know the over mentioned ILO Italian guy who hired all those italians in his team. (I should probably send my CV to him as well :) One of the reasons why I moved to GVA is to have more opportunities than in Italy, where it is getting very hard for young people to find a job and have a decent life.


Some of you asked about my personal background, and I really appreciate all of your efforts and understanding, however I want this thread to be more on a general bases, in order to be useful to other interns or wannabe interns coming to GVA with lots of expectations and hope.  I will send private messages to all of you who wishes to deepen the conversation.


Thank you very much again, hopefully one day I will be in the position to make a real contribution to the change in the attitude. But if things will keep being as they are, I think I might just give up, work in a flower shop and just be happy.


Maybe I just did not consider I might not be good enough.


robi

The text you are quoting:

I would like to thank you all for sharing your experiences and ideas, and all the information on the Global Fund :)  By the way, I took a look to their website, and apparently only students enrolled in an university programme are eligible to apply to their internship, and anyway those are only for 3 months. I think it works the same for all UN agencies, but what about after one graduates?


The thing is really how to get into NGOs and Int. Organ. when one has around 1 - 3 years experience, thus being in a kinda limbo, where one has more experience to be "just" an intern, but still (apparently) not enough for a paid position.


I do have some stories I would like to share. For example in my previous organization I was denied some tasks because  not african, or not african looking: I did not represent the image of the organization.. I do agree with Ivet "many high level non-profit managers come from cultures where exploitation and age hiarchies are the norm", I noticed this many times when I worked in Egypt, India and also here with people with African background, neverhteless I would not consider Italians and Italian culture much different: I know the over mentioned ILO Italian guy who hired all those italians in his team. (I should probably send my CV to him as well :) One of the reasons why I moved to GVA is to have more opportunities than in Italy, where it is getting very hard for young people to find a job and have a decent life.


Some of you asked about my personal background, and I really appreciate all of your efforts and understanding, however I want this thread to be more on a general bases, in order to be useful to other interns or wannabe interns coming to GVA with lots of expectations and hope.  I will send private messages to all of you who wishes to deepen the conversation.


Thank you very much again, hopefully one day I will be in the position to make a real contribution to the change in the attitude. But if things will keep being as they are, I think I might just give up, work in a flower shop and just be happy.


Maybe I just did not consider I might not be good enough.


robi


roberta m, Apr 28, 2011 @ 12:12
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Post 16

Robi, don't ever think you might not be good enough. That's exactly what they - those who get super high salaries and get others to do their job for free - want you to think. So India & Egypt field experience? How can you not be qualified? Many people in offices working on human rights have never seen these issues first hand. Don't start doubting yourself. Just start applying only for paid jobs: 1-3 years is already experience - for an entry level job or higher. And just get to know a lot of people, which is not that hard actually. And don't for a moment stop and doubt yourself.

The text you are quoting:

Robi, don't ever think you might not be good enough. That's exactly what they - those who get super high salaries and get others to do their job for free - want you to think. So India & Egypt field experience? How can you not be qualified? Many people in offices working on human rights have never seen these issues first hand. Don't start doubting yourself. Just start applying only for paid jobs: 1-3 years is already experience - for an entry level job or higher. And just get to know a lot of people, which is not that hard actually. And don't for a moment stop and doubt yourself.


Ivet, Apr 28, 2011 @ 12:54
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Post 17

Great post ! Congratulations, STOP the UN taking advantage of young people. This is an excellent cause to support for any healthy and free individual. I have heard of salaries upt do 15.000chf / month inside UN.

The text you are quoting:

Great post ! Congratulations, STOP the UN taking advantage of young people. This is an excellent cause to support for any healthy and free individual. I have heard of salaries upt do 15.000chf / month inside UN.


Petru V, Apr 28, 2011 @ 14:04
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Post 18

Well, this has generated a lot of dialogue ! I have enjoyed reading everyone’s opinion. I have just a few more comments to add and then I am going to leave you all to it..


NGOs operate similarly to businesses with only slight differences. They have overhead, operating costs, personnel issues etc. There are big, international NGOs and small little local ones just as there are huge international conglomerates and your little privately owned corner baker. The operating strategy and outlook of a large, powerful organisation, such as the UN, is going to differ greatly from than that of a little player working from home with a handful of volunteers and little or no paid staff. There are also obviously many variations between these 2 extremes. It is simply impossible to lump all NGOs into one basket and make generalisations about them good or bad.


Yes, in some cases or perhaps many cases, upper management of NGOs can be considered overpaid. Um, in which company or other business entity is this not true? Top officers can also be sexist, ageist etc or any variety of other evils.  I personally feel that this type of problem is more prevalent in the traditional businesses. Someone with a truly “good old boy” mentality is not going to be at home within an NGO environment.


Yes, NGOS use or abuse interns (depending on your stance) to cut down cuts. Whether costs should be cut this way is certainly open for debate – on a case by case basis.


It seems that some of you expect NGOs to operate on some kind of ultra moral and altruistic plane from which you exempt “regular” businesses. Given the failings and foibles of human nature I believe you expect too much. Learn to accept the world for what it is, appreciate the good, change the bad when you can and have the strength to accept that which you cannot.   

The text you are quoting:

Well, this has generated a lot of dialogue ! I have enjoyed reading everyone’s opinion. I have just a few more comments to add and then I am going to leave you all to it..


NGOs operate similarly to businesses with only slight differences. They have overhead, operating costs, personnel issues etc. There are big, international NGOs and small little local ones just as there are huge international conglomerates and your little privately owned corner baker. The operating strategy and outlook of a large, powerful organisation, such as the UN, is going to differ greatly from than that of a little player working from home with a handful of volunteers and little or no paid staff. There are also obviously many variations between these 2 extremes. It is simply impossible to lump all NGOs into one basket and make generalisations about them good or bad.


Yes, in some cases or perhaps many cases, upper management of NGOs can be considered overpaid. Um, in which company or other business entity is this not true? Top officers can also be sexist, ageist etc or any variety of other evils.  I personally feel that this type of problem is more prevalent in the traditional businesses. Someone with a truly “good old boy” mentality is not going to be at home within an NGO environment.


Yes, NGOS use or abuse interns (depending on your stance) to cut down cuts. Whether costs should be cut this way is certainly open for debate – on a case by case basis.


It seems that some of you expect NGOs to operate on some kind of ultra moral and altruistic plane from which you exempt “regular” businesses. Given the failings and foibles of human nature I believe you expect too much. Learn to accept the world for what it is, appreciate the good, change the bad when you can and have the strength to accept that which you cannot.   


Tracy M, Apr 28, 2011 @ 16:19
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Post 19

Well, this has generated a lot of dialogue ! I have enjoyed reading everyone’s opinion. I have just a few more comments to add and then I am going to leave you all to it..

NGOs operate similarly to businesses with only slight differences. They have overhead, operating costs, personnel issues etc. There are big, international NGOs and small little local ones just as there are huge international conglomerates and your little privately owned corner baker. The operating strategy and outlook of a large, powerful organisation, such as the UN, is going to differ greatly from than that of a little player working from home with a handful of volunteers and little or no paid staff. There are also obviously many variations between these 2 extremes. It is simply impossible to lump all NGOs into one basket and make generalisations about them good or bad.

Yes, in some cases or perhaps many cases, upper management of NGOs can be considered overpaid. Um, in which company or other business entity is this not true? Top officers can also be sexist, ageist etc or any variety of other evils.  I personally feel that this type of problem is more prevalent in the traditional businesses. Someone with a truly “good old boy” mentality is not going to be at home within an NGO environment.

Yes, NGOS use or abuse interns (depending on your stance) to cut down cuts. Whether costs should be cut this way is certainly open for debate – on a case by case basis.

It seems that some of you expect NGOs to operate on some kind of ultra moral and altruistic plane from which you exempt “regular” businesses. Given the failings and foibles of human nature I believe you expect too much. Learn to accept the world for what it is, appreciate the good, change the bad when you can and have the strength to accept that which you cannot.   


Apr 28, 11 16:19

I totally agree with Tracy. It's just a year I'm working for an agency in Geneva, whereas all my previous experience has been in the private sector. The issues faced by the international organizations, from a managerial perspective, are pretty similar to the ones faced by private businesses. However, being in a non-profit environment makes it really challenging to achieve efficiencies and keep people motivated. The salary is fixed, the perks are for the top management and the small guys are kind of left to the mercy of an influential contact or inefficient human resourcing policies. So, the only real drivers for somebody looking forward to or already working in intl. orgs. that remain are few: 1) deep passion for international development and seeing intl. org.s (and probably NGOs) as the ideal and only places to that end, 2) enjoying a relatively good lifestyle somewhat disproportionate with the workload, 3) lack of other options. 


Moreover, there's a huge paradox between cutting costs and maintaining budget levels each fiscal period, and the balance is hard to find but not impossible. This is further exacerbated by lack of planning and long-term perspective, lack of coordination and inability to see the big picture either at a lower or higher level of management. And these are all the results of overspecialisation, limited focus due to incumbents that have mostly, if not all their lives worked in similar environments, that not rarely are also incompetent, and so on.


Ageism is a reaction to the reality that current incumbents don't dare look at in the face: the fact that most young people today are so bright because they are not only highly educated, but also are brave enough to cross the world to look for experience and make a difference. Except for top level officials I've had the chance to interact with, who display a high level of professionalism and strategic perspective, the mid-level management, the one that has a big say in entry level/mid-career level positions for young graduates have mediocre achievements. They will make use of talent as much as possible - at low compensation or none, and then go forward with others the same way till "there's budget."  And unfortunately this is made worse by a disproportionate demand - supply function.


To young aspirants, my personal advice would be to look at the global picture as for many, the international organizations still exemplify a great deal of idealism.  Start the analysis from a truly individual perspective - someone that is not at peace and happy with oneself cannot make the best choices, even for others. So, i'd suggest the following questions: what are the benefits in the long and short-run, what is the reputation and role of international organizations, the consequences of a career there vs. a career in the private sector, the career shift trade-offs, work/life balance, and similar stuff.


Finally, and I have reflected quite often on this myself, why bother begging (literally) an intl. org. manager to give you a job that probably is going to use less than 50% of my capacity, or the opposite, 100%+ and not be recognized? Why bother convincing them of my values? The answer to myself is: if I am as good as I am trying to convince that manager to believe, my consciousness would be more at peace and I'd be more proud of myself while looking around for another job, where a manager has more appreciation and sees my potential. Private sector is not easy, I know, but shouldn't be impossible. I'll go to the extreme here, but... instead of humiliating oneself... better take the challenge to explore rewarding opportunities.

The text you are quoting:

I totally agree with Tracy. It's just a year I'm working for an agency in Geneva, whereas all my previous experience has been in the private sector. The issues faced by the international organizations, from a managerial perspective, are pretty similar to the ones faced by private businesses. However, being in a non-profit environment makes it really challenging to achieve efficiencies and keep people motivated. The salary is fixed, the perks are for the top management and the small guys are kind of left to the mercy of an influential contact or inefficient human resourcing policies. So, the only real drivers for somebody looking forward to or already working in intl. orgs. that remain are few: 1) deep passion for international development and seeing intl. org.s (and probably NGOs) as the ideal and only places to that end, 2) enjoying a relatively good lifestyle somewhat disproportionate with the workload, 3) lack of other options. 


Moreover, there's a huge paradox between cutting costs and maintaining budget levels each fiscal period, and the balance is hard to find but not impossible. This is further exacerbated by lack of planning and long-term perspective, lack of coordination and inability to see the big picture either at a lower or higher level of management. And these are all the results of overspecialisation, limited focus due to incumbents that have mostly, if not all their lives worked in similar environments, that not rarely are also incompetent, and so on.


Ageism is a reaction to the reality that current incumbents don't dare look at in the face: the fact that most young people today are so bright because they are not only highly educated, but also are brave enough to cross the world to look for experience and make a difference. Except for top level officials I've had the chance to interact with, who display a high level of professionalism and strategic perspective, the mid-level management, the one that has a big say in entry level/mid-career level positions for young graduates have mediocre achievements. They will make use of talent as much as possible - at low compensation or none, and then go forward with others the same way till "there's budget."  And unfortunately this is made worse by a disproportionate demand - supply function.


To young aspirants, my personal advice would be to look at the global picture as for many, the international organizations still exemplify a great deal of idealism.  Start the analysis from a truly individual perspective - someone that is not at peace and happy with oneself cannot make the best choices, even for others. So, i'd suggest the following questions: what are the benefits in the long and short-run, what is the reputation and role of international organizations, the consequences of a career there vs. a career in the private sector, the career shift trade-offs, work/life balance, and similar stuff.


Finally, and I have reflected quite often on this myself, why bother begging (literally) an intl. org. manager to give you a job that probably is going to use less than 50% of my capacity, or the opposite, 100%+ and not be recognized? Why bother convincing them of my values? The answer to myself is: if I am as good as I am trying to convince that manager to believe, my consciousness would be more at peace and I'd be more proud of myself while looking around for another job, where a manager has more appreciation and sees my potential. Private sector is not easy, I know, but shouldn't be impossible. I'll go to the extreme here, but... instead of humiliating oneself... better take the challenge to explore rewarding opportunities.


Afrora S, Apr 29, 2011 @ 10:13
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Re: Internships (NGOs and International Organization) how to survive and pass to the next step: a real job?
Post 20

I don't necessarily have any further comments to add to the vast amounts detailed above, but I can certainly sympathise with your position.  I too am in that 1-3 years experience bracket and trying to break into the international sector.  I am not eligable for most internships because I finished my Masters almost 2 years ago, but my experience (through mostly internships) is not sufficient to carry me into the highly competitive paid job arena.  I have spent 9 months here in Geneva looking for and applyhing for jobs with NGO's and IO's without success.  I have only just recently secured a temporary (un-paid) position with an NGO helping out on a report. Its not much, but it is better than nothing. 


While I can agree with some of the negative positions on internships stated above, from my perspective I believe it is better to be doing something rather than nothing.  During my previous 9 months I was applying for jobs and looking for apartments and studying French, but my career and resume was stagnating.  At least internships and unpaid positions give me a chance to be exposed to new things and ideas and give me something to use as a reference point and lobby tool if I ever make an interview stage.  And of course the most important thing they do is introduce you to people, networks are extremely important to getting a job in this industry in my opinion.  I would not go as far as to say that internships are the best or only way into paid positions, but I certainly think they have value and are better than watching day time tv.

The text you are quoting:

I don't necessarily have any further comments to add to the vast amounts detailed above, but I can certainly sympathise with your position.  I too am in that 1-3 years experience bracket and trying to break into the international sector.  I am not eligable for most internships because I finished my Masters almost 2 years ago, but my experience (through mostly internships) is not sufficient to carry me into the highly competitive paid job arena.  I have spent 9 months here in Geneva looking for and applyhing for jobs with NGO's and IO's without success.  I have only just recently secured a temporary (un-paid) position with an NGO helping out on a report. Its not much, but it is better than nothing. 


While I can agree with some of the negative positions on internships stated above, from my perspective I believe it is better to be doing something rather than nothing.  During my previous 9 months I was applying for jobs and looking for apartments and studying French, but my career and resume was stagnating.  At least internships and unpaid positions give me a chance to be exposed to new things and ideas and give me something to use as a reference point and lobby tool if I ever make an interview stage.  And of course the most important thing they do is introduce you to people, networks are extremely important to getting a job in this industry in my opinion.  I would not go as far as to say that internships are the best or only way into paid positions, but I certainly think they have value and are better than watching day time tv.


Sammy J, Apr 29, 2011 @ 13:23
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Re: Internships (NGOs and International Organization) how to survive and pass to the next step: a real job?
Post 21

 


Couldn't help reading this thread and absorbing some of positive and negative experiences and comments here. Like Breshna posted, would also suggest that you can also look outside Geneva for career development (paid / un-paid) and build-up field experiences there. Focus also on developing a niche in your area of expertise when you're in the field, this will build-up your recognition and desirability elsewhere.


With various situations particularly in north africa and the middle-east, it is certainly good opportunity to explore possibilities there as well. There are various portals to explore opportunities in the humanitarian world, like ReliefWeb, AlertNet and UNjobs.org etc


I'm more in the humanitarian world working for refugees and you're welcome to drop in a line if you need some suggestion in this area of work Cool

The text you are quoting:

 


Couldn't help reading this thread and absorbing some of positive and negative experiences and comments here. Like Breshna posted, would also suggest that you can also look outside Geneva for career development (paid / un-paid) and build-up field experiences there. Focus also on developing a niche in your area of expertise when you're in the field, this will build-up your recognition and desirability elsewhere.


With various situations particularly in north africa and the middle-east, it is certainly good opportunity to explore possibilities there as well. There are various portals to explore opportunities in the humanitarian world, like ReliefWeb, AlertNet and UNjobs.org etc


I'm more in the humanitarian world working for refugees and you're welcome to drop in a line if you need some suggestion in this area of work Cool


ephraim t, Apr 29, 2011 @ 13:25
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Post 22

@TracyM


"I personally feel that this type of problem is more prevalent in the traditional businesses. Someone with a truly “good old boy” mentality is not going to be at home within an NGO environment."


I have heard numerous horror stories of sexual harassment, mobbing, broken contracts from former ngo/io employees.. It's also very difficult to sue these entities.


And as for "good old boy" mentality, well,I laughed a bit reading that when I remember this:


http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6058168


Jeffrey Beard, the head of one of the world's most respected assessment organisations - the International Baccalaureate (IB) - has been caught red-handed passing off someone else's work as his own.


The Geneva-based director general of the IB has been publicly named and shamed by an American academic institution where he made a speech that it has discovered "was not original work".


Mr Beard gave a talk on "Education for a Better World" last month at the Chautauqua Institution in New York State.


But a day later the adult education centre issued a statement noting that his speech "drew heavily upon and quoted extensively from a speech given earlier in the year by Sir Ken Robinson".


It appears that Mr Beard broke one of the golden rules of cheating - if you're going to do it don't be too obvious. In using material from Sir Ken, he picked on a world-renowned US-based British educationalist who has had one of his talks viewed more than 1.5 million times on the internet.


"Mr Beard neglected to cite his source or reveal the quotations for what they were. Yesterday's speech was not original work," the statement continued.


The IB's own guide for schools on academic honesty defines plagiarism as "the representation of the ideas or work of another person as the candidate's own".


It also states that "an authentic piece of work is one that is based on the candidate's individual and original ideas with the ideas and work of others fully acknowledged".


This week an IB spokeswoman said: "On reflection, Mr Beard thinks that he could have been more explicit about the sources and authors that inspired him for the content of this speech."


She said he had drawn from "a number of sources", including Sir Ken Robinson, but "it was never Mr Beard's intent to imply that the ideas were his alone".


"If this had not been a speech, but a scholarly or academic paper, he would have made a complete list of all references available," she said.


The Chautauqua Institution was not impressed and has withdrawn the speech from its website and bookshop. Its statement ends: "Mr Beard's behavior in this matter is not characteristic of the work done here at Chautauqua and violates the expectations you should have for that work. We acknowledge to you our genuine disappointment in this event."


I certainly hope the school you may open will treat its employees well and will adhere to more ethical standards than those of Mr. Beard.

The text you are quoting:

@TracyM


"I personally feel that this type of problem is more prevalent in the traditional businesses. Someone with a truly “good old boy” mentality is not going to be at home within an NGO environment."


I have heard numerous horror stories of sexual harassment, mobbing, broken contracts from former ngo/io employees.. It's also very difficult to sue these entities.


And as for "good old boy" mentality, well,I laughed a bit reading that when I remember this:


http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6058168


Jeffrey Beard, the head of one of the world's most respected assessment organisations - the International Baccalaureate (IB) - has been caught red-handed passing off someone else's work as his own.


The Geneva-based director general of the IB has been publicly named and shamed by an American academic institution where he made a speech that it has discovered "was not original work".


Mr Beard gave a talk on "Education for a Better World" last month at the Chautauqua Institution in New York State.


But a day later the adult education centre issued a statement noting that his speech "drew heavily upon and quoted extensively from a speech given earlier in the year by Sir Ken Robinson".


It appears that Mr Beard broke one of the golden rules of cheating - if you're going to do it don't be too obvious. In using material from Sir Ken, he picked on a world-renowned US-based British educationalist who has had one of his talks viewed more than 1.5 million times on the internet.


"Mr Beard neglected to cite his source or reveal the quotations for what they were. Yesterday's speech was not original work," the statement continued.


The IB's own guide for schools on academic honesty defines plagiarism as "the representation of the ideas or work of another person as the candidate's own".


It also states that "an authentic piece of work is one that is based on the candidate's individual and original ideas with the ideas and work of others fully acknowledged".


This week an IB spokeswoman said: "On reflection, Mr Beard thinks that he could have been more explicit about the sources and authors that inspired him for the content of this speech."


She said he had drawn from "a number of sources", including Sir Ken Robinson, but "it was never Mr Beard's intent to imply that the ideas were his alone".


"If this had not been a speech, but a scholarly or academic paper, he would have made a complete list of all references available," she said.


The Chautauqua Institution was not impressed and has withdrawn the speech from its website and bookshop. Its statement ends: "Mr Beard's behavior in this matter is not characteristic of the work done here at Chautauqua and violates the expectations you should have for that work. We acknowledge to you our genuine disappointment in this event."


I certainly hope the school you may open will treat its employees well and will adhere to more ethical standards than those of Mr. Beard.


Translator, Apr 29, 2011 @ 14:24
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Re: Internships (NGOs and International Organization) how to survive and pass to the next step: a real job?
Post 23

Well, this has generated a lot of dialogue ! I have enjoyed reading everyone’s opinion. I have just a few more comments to add and then I am going to leave you all to it..

NGOs operate similarly to businesses with only slight differences. They have overhead, operating costs, personnel issues etc. There are big, international NGOs and small little local ones just as there are huge international conglomerates and your little privately owned corner baker. The operating strategy and outlook of a large, powerful organisation, such as the UN, is going to differ greatly from than that of a little player working from home with a handful of volunteers and little or no paid staff. There are also obviously many variations between these 2 extremes. It is simply impossible to lump all NGOs into one basket and make generalisations about them good or bad.

Yes, in some cases or perhaps many cases, upper management of NGOs can be considered overpaid. Um, in which company or other business entity is this not true? Top officers can also be sexist, ageist etc or any variety of other evils.  I personally feel that this type of problem is more prevalent in the traditional businesses. Someone with a truly “good old boy” mentality is not going to be at home within an NGO environment.

Yes, NGOS use or abuse interns (depending on your stance) to cut down cuts. Whether costs should be cut this way is certainly open for debate – on a case by case basis.

It seems that some of you expect NGOs to operate on some kind of ultra moral and altruistic plane from which you exempt “regular” businesses. Given the failings and foibles of human nature I believe you expect too much. Learn to accept the world for what it is, appreciate the good, change the bad when you can and have the strength to accept that which you cannot.   


Apr 28, 11 16:19

Tracy, this is the point I was trying to make: no one is looking at NGOs IOs from an ultra moral and altruistic perspective - just from a basic line and a basic standard.


When we look at NGOs IOs as we do at any regular organization they still fall much much below the acceptable line. Not  a super moral standard which no one else is being held to - just a regular standard of professionalism and these organizations are still way below. Things that happen there would never be tolerated in the private sector because in the private sector you get sued, you have competitors, and you also care if your employee leaves because they bring you a lot of money. You also screen employees rather than taking on board 'a friend who just rang you' who is not good, because your profitability depends on how good the person really is. In the private sector or any other organization you wouldn't dare tell someone: I won't pay you this month - don't complain, your husband works in a bank, you're okay. You won't dare tell someone: I will pay you for 9 months but you will work 11 - that's fine right? You don't hire people if you clearly see you don't have the money for it. You don't dare telling someone: 'Yes, you are hired, quit your current job', only to ignore them later. No, you will play like any other player whereby a promise is a promise, a contract is a contract, people get paid for what they finish and what they were promised without any negotiations, and people are judged based on what they accomplish for the firm. Incompetant people are out, competant people are in because incompetant is of no use to you.


IOs NGOs on the other hand don't play like any other. It's almost like a total reversal of rules. If anything, they are the ones who think they are exempt from these standards because they are so great. IOs are immuned from local jurisdiction. You can't hold the UN accountable on employment issues. Full stop. This is how you get away with things which otherwise would be unnaceptable in any other sector of society.


Finally, this kind of culture attracts particular type of incompetant people as managers - my boss at the UN became the head after failing in a career of tabloid journalism, not continueing his career in sports, and after failing with his own media business. So the logical step was to take up a high management position in the UN.

The text you are quoting:

Tracy, this is the point I was trying to make: no one is looking at NGOs IOs from an ultra moral and altruistic perspective - just from a basic line and a basic standard.


When we look at NGOs IOs as we do at any regular organization they still fall much much below the acceptable line. Not  a super moral standard which no one else is being held to - just a regular standard of professionalism and these organizations are still way below. Things that happen there would never be tolerated in the private sector because in the private sector you get sued, you have competitors, and you also care if your employee leaves because they bring you a lot of money. You also screen employees rather than taking on board 'a friend who just rang you' who is not good, because your profitability depends on how good the person really is. In the private sector or any other organization you wouldn't dare tell someone: I won't pay you this month - don't complain, your husband works in a bank, you're okay. You won't dare tell someone: I will pay you for 9 months but you will work 11 - that's fine right? You don't hire people if you clearly see you don't have the money for it. You don't dare telling someone: 'Yes, you are hired, quit your current job', only to ignore them later. No, you will play like any other player whereby a promise is a promise, a contract is a contract, people get paid for what they finish and what they were promised without any negotiations, and people are judged based on what they accomplish for the firm. Incompetant people are out, competant people are in because incompetant is of no use to you.


IOs NGOs on the other hand don't play like any other. It's almost like a total reversal of rules. If anything, they are the ones who think they are exempt from these standards because they are so great. IOs are immuned from local jurisdiction. You can't hold the UN accountable on employment issues. Full stop. This is how you get away with things which otherwise would be unnaceptable in any other sector of society.


Finally, this kind of culture attracts particular type of incompetant people as managers - my boss at the UN became the head after failing in a career of tabloid journalism, not continueing his career in sports, and after failing with his own media business. So the logical step was to take up a high management position in the UN.


Ivet, Apr 29, 2011 @ 16:22
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Post 24

Hi Roberta,


I was waiting for this position to be advertised to let you know about it:
http://www.theglobalfund.org/en/employment/
There are 30 positions opened for Proposals Officers. It's an entry-level position (not an internship) and they last for 6 months. Most Proposals Officers find work at the Fund after the 6 months, although it's not guaranteed.


Take a look, maybe you're interested in applying.


Good luck,


Marcela.

The text you are quoting:

Hi Roberta,


I was waiting for this position to be advertised to let you know about it:
http://www.theglobalfund.org/en/employment/
There are 30 positions opened for Proposals Officers. It's an entry-level position (not an internship) and they last for 6 months. Most Proposals Officers find work at the Fund after the 6 months, although it's not guaranteed.


Take a look, maybe you're interested in applying.


Good luck,


Marcela.


Marcela Rojo, Jul 1, 2011 @ 11:54
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