You can report to admin, but for my part I do prefer let people express themself freely...

For those reasons:

first, the base of my personal idea about democracy is to let everyone express themself which unfotunately is an utopia in our political world.

secondly it let others people able to know which persons have dangerous ideas instead of letting them inseminate those ideas into hidden circles.

And finally hiding their opinions are playing the same game.

but it's only my humble opinion... :-)

simply put: yes they are.

These posts may still have gone too far, but since it's in the political forum I can't really be bothered by it. Discussing something like the political situation in Israel in an international forum will often lead to radical posts I think.

If anyone would post a statement like this in another forum I think they should get a warning (and a ban if they repeat).

@David R

I would add religion to the topics to be baned. As politics is so intertwined with religion in many countries, it is difficult to seperate one from the other.  Politico-relgio addicts can always turn to other organisations that host forums where members can rant and rave, which I believe is contrary to the objectives of Glocals, even despite the relegation to its own special corner.

Notwithstanding this is the need for a mixed bag of forum topics that inspire members to speak out but with a "sharing" attitutde rather than hammering away at one another.  The humorous forums seem to have disapeared of late???

People who express their hatred so freely must feel rather safe to do so. Somehow, others don't feel free to say such things about them without being stigmatized or punished for their free opinions! 

I agree ...politics has no place in a friendly forum, , if it upsets people then there should be no place for it. (for the record ....i dont care one jot..Im apolitical and apathetic towards that stuff... leave it in the office people... take home only smiles and distribute only smiles on here... make the days and evenings sunny...)

Some need it though...hence the segregated political thread section... but hatred or dislike or simply disapproval very often overflows from the confines of those segregated threads...often even onto the comic ones... some people dont know when to let the bone go and are overly sensitive,  but this is what happens when you get thousands of different nationalities and opinions on a web site.

We should all remember that if English is Not your first language its easy (very easy) to misinterpret written words the wrong way...

Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom of the written word...

So since we're all here to party (or learn where to buy eggs)  then lets just do that...

More power to the immature jokers is what I say...

So... mine is an omlette and a pint... thanx, peace out

Charlie:

"leave it in the office people... take home only smiles and distribute only smiles on here"

What a boring snoring place Glocals would become!

Leave out the topics re politics... and religion... (and of course sex..), as prescribed by all worldy, consensual, and politically correct gatherings?

Well I particularly enjoy reading topics on politics (as well as religion, not to mention sex).

I do first feel discomfort on reading hate and ignorance expressed, but then very quickly I feel rather sorry for the person professing it.

And I do not miss the jokes... didn't understand half of them, sounded like some private jokes exchanged by language-knowing happy fews.

All,

The person who posted the original post which Felipe is refering to got a warning, and some of their posts were removed.

On the broader point of allowing political posts on glocals: nearly every time a political thread is started, it turns ugly & personal real fast. Over the past year we experimented with banning political threads, then allowing them freely, to the current situation: allowing them on their specific "politics forum" and not showing them on the front page (which still allows the hard-core politics fans to post and engage with each other, but doesn't drag the less interested public into it). Let's see how that works.

Nir

I am for the freedom of speech about politic and religion in Glocals, however there are some limits… and express the hatred of one person by another, because of religion, customs, place of birth or any factor that supposedly reveals the basic nature of that person, is one of the limit. We are all adult and we all know what the limits are…

In my opinion it is very dangerous to let express a member like this, I have already alerted the Glocals admin about one of these posts, he told they warmed up the member, however it looks like it was not enough…

Now I have a question if an Arab, Muslim or Palestinian responds to this member in the same way, do you think it is good for the freedom of speech?  

I also agree wiith Geoffrey a warning is not enought, the member posted more than two racists posts in two differant forums. I understand it can once or twice, but not more... The member went too far and we should not let him another chance...

Thank you to understand my point of view.

I am sorry but it looks like the member didn’t get the message, in respond to my comment about his posts and even having a warning, it didn’t stop the member to say yesterday :

“most people who live in reality admit the extremism that places bombs and sends rockets is not Tibetian Buddhism “

It is too much for some of us....

I would agree that the idea is for people to come together and I've met interesting people and heard interesting, funny etc. ideas in numerous forums.

Even controversial forums brings people together and I'd rather have a (civil) war of words (preferably backed up with facts and sources) than a real war.  Now if these forums disappear war will not occur but I think you get my point.  Also these forums allow us to get to know each other a bit better and perhaps make contact.  Many people's profiles say they would like to meet like-minded people and these fora, controversial as they are sometimes, allows that to happen.

I think the administrators did a good thing to keep them off the front page and keep an eye on them to keep them civil and impersonal.  But I also think if one is likely to be offended then they shouldn't read them in the first place.  I don't read fora where the title doesn't interest me.  I'm an adult and can make the choice.

Also if people are offended by words and different points of view then I think they have a problem - actions speak louder than words and I find the violent interventions in Viet Nam, Cambodia, Laos, Chile, Pakistan, Libya too name just a few in this century and what Gabriel Kolko calls the Century of War when writing of the 20th century, far more offensive than any words I've ever read or heard spoken.  Many other things such as rape, assault, murder, finacial casino economies, food maldistribution, IMF/WB policies etc. I find more offensive than even those opinions of others with whom I disagree on controversial subjects.

With all respect,

Mark

I could not agree more with it!  These are the three topics that make the

world go by and we should definitely keep on discussing them.  Nik is

handling the matter of the forums very wisely and it is up to us to respond to

extreme and/or provocatory statements with facts ( and humour if possible). 

Just an opinion.

Freedom of speech IS the same as freedom of the written word.  Many countries' constitutions that protect speech freedom make that clear.

Speech and written words are the expression of thought and unless you want thought police then you will need to support freedom of speech no matter how hateful it might be.  Geert Wilders is now on trial for hate speech in Holland for things he has said.  I detest the man and what he says but support his right to say those things and for others to shout him doown and vote him out.

Chomsky has very interesting things to say on freedom of speech and 'intellectuals' in regard to the Faurisoon Affair:

"He was then brought to trial for "falsification of History," and later condemned for this crime, the first time that a modern Western state openly affirmed the Stalinist-Nazi doctrine that the state will determine historical truth and punish deviation from it. Later he was beaten practically to death by Jewish terrorists. As of now, the European and other intellectuals have not expressed any opposition to these scandals; rather, they have sought to disguise their profound commitment to Stalinist-Nazi doctrine by following the same models, trying to divert attention with a flood of outrageous lies". http://www.chomsky.info/letters/1989----.htm

wrt rule 2 i wonder how the Guardian squares it with it's own censorship and distortion of facts?

By ISRAEL SHAMIR

http://www.counterpunch.org/shamir01112011.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=Shamir+Israel+guardian&domains=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org&sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org

The Guardian is a corporation and its first interest is to protect itself no matter how liberal they may be to their readers.  Newspapers make  their money off advertising and not subscriptions or purchases at news stalls.  So I take the Guardian ‘s 10 Commandments with a grain of salt.

Hello Felipe and everybody,

I'm of the opinion that speech should be free, and adults should be able to put a "racist" label on a poster, if his posts meet this criteria for them.  OK, so-and-so is a racist, or has an objectionable agenda.  As long as it is not overtly ugly or defamatory, we should let people express thier opinions, whether we agree with them or not. Tolerance is the keyword, not of the opinions, but of each individual's right to express them. And as far as banning political forums on Glocals, this is like banning books and films that offend your sensibilities- you have the right to simply not read/watch them.

Concerning the actual offensive comments, as quoted, “there is much suffering in the world and a great deal of it is created by extreme moslems”, I find it hard to argue against this statement.  Here are two more, "there is much... created by zionist extremists", and "there is much... created by hypocritical self-serving American policies".  You could probably add a few more of your own.

“the point is the Arabs are sore losers”- I guess I would also be sore if my entire people had been disposessed by force from their land, and after 4 generations of living in squalild conditions as refugees, I still couldn't see a better life for my children.

“what did the palestinians ever contribute to the world besides voting the Hamas in, sending rockets to Israel and playing the victim constantly ?”  Is the writer upset that Palestinians are encroching on the Jewish prerogative of playing the victim?

It's all a mess with no solution in sight.  And when it all gets too much for you, I'm sure there's a forum on Rösti recipes or something...

Cheers,

Tony

I think people KNOW that politics IS one of those areas which can upset people so keeping that area as totally free area is sensible...sort of like rating films...if you enter the debate be prepared for possible personal abuse. To be frank you only need to visit a few other boards to realise how restrained glocals is in reality.

I agree that with the points of freedom of speech and the need for debatebecause as long as we are talking about it we are not on the streets.

i am from a part of london where that has happened to a dramatic and distasteful effect.

i also agree that in a few forums that i have read viewpoints have been taken to far to the point or racial hatred.

there should be a forum that allows for freedom of expression but i think the internet is not it! Social media is a passing flirtation with me. i do not 'twit' or 'book faces' or any of the other meriad of third party mediums of the like.

Those that feel the need for a political forum should start a group and meet up, as someone posted if english is not your first language then things can be taken the wrong way and misunderstood.

Hell, i've lost friends due to social networking sites for the same reason and we had english in common.

I came to switzerland for the love of a good woman and the opportunity of work. It is a bonus that i feel part of a society and not the reason to grab for your handbag or check your wallet.

Like charlie i have nothing but love for everyone, as my mother always said, 'treat people how you want to be treated'

when i get on my high horse it's with a kazoo and a smiley face, maybe even a clowns outfit.

when i get off it, i have to come here and talk about this.......

Hi Nefertitti and Good Rider...

You both make valid points... and I agree that you should be able to read political threads if you so choose, and participate if that is your interest too.

However, I probably didnt express myself properly in terms of my "freedom of speach"...bit

bear in mind that we are all from different lands, humans have first learnt to communicate by sight and sound...gestures if you will, that show all different emotions, these gestures have progressed into modern day language...to you and I its called body language, a susinct way that each of us can tell (albeit often unknowingly) during a conversation whether we are being agressed, or if the conversation is staying on a friendly path, or not as the case may be.

This is almost impossible for most of us to portray in written form... we read words in our own minds (or outloud) and very often the "sense" of the written word is misinterpreted, because we dont have the facial expressions or body language of the person writing it to fall back on for security.

So when this happens, taking words out of context is very easy to do, and misunderstandings do happen.

The Glocals community is varied, by race, creed, beliefs, social standing etc etc... in every way in fact.. so its little suprise that something I write, or you write, or anyone for that matter, "COULD" be taken out of context...

With this in mind, subjects that evoke emotion, (politics, religeon and sex) are touchy... i realise that not everyone wants to read my jokes... many probably dont understand them... not everyone wants to read about the Middle East, or the English in Ireland, or whether or not God exists, or if so how many are there, and who is mightier than whom... blah dee blah... the choice is there if you do want to read about it, and participate...

However, in its finality, this FREE website was set up to HELP expats... to make people displaced feel more at home, or at the very least give them oopportunity to enjoy life here, to find the things they need to buy, to participate in social events... not as a forum for political interaction... (by the way of the 1000's of members here, how many I wonder have jobs in the NGO political or social enterprises here? dont you guys get enough of political wranglings at work?)...anyway...

You all pretty much now that my contribution here on this site consists of mainly joking around with the occasional helpful hint thrown in... Im not a political beast, and nor am I religeous... sex however I woudl gladly participate in... Threads that is... (just in case you read my words as a come on..) ;-))

Enjoy the sun all... and wish me luck for my interview this avo... and see you at the next drinks thing..

We are all adults here. We KNOW what can be construed as offensive whether it be racist or whatever. One example was someone thinking it would be ‘contentious and clever’ and ‘merely exercising their rights under free speech’ to review of a book decrying Catholism and Mother Teresa* on Easter Sunday. To their credit when I wrote to them, they removed the thread immediately for which I am grateful.

I’m not going to belabour this – actually I won’t write anything else on this matter. I just want to echo Charlie’s sentiments on this (good luck this afternoon by the way) – that this site was set up to HELP expats in Switzerland. You know – the people who feel exactly the same as you did when you first got here – didn’t know anyone, hadn’t got a clue where anything was and, if we're being honest, scared sh-tless! Let’s keep the focus of this incredible resource that Nir and Oded have created on helping people and getting people together, shall we?

*This is not a signal to bombard this thread with a load of quotes, YouTube videos, book reviews etc.

"We are all adults here. We KNOW what can be construed as offensive whether it be racist or whatever"

I fully agree with this...

1. Thanks to FelipeM for this thread. No one person should be allowed to continually insult another people nor attempt to incite hatred toward another group in posts. If Glocals continues to allow these sorts of posts, someone will eventually sue and the site will be shut down, if only temporarily.

Freedom of speech -- whether written or oral -- is always tempered by the law of whatever land in which the site is hosted. 

2.  Are political and religion-related threads the problem?  Perhaps they are for several particular posters. I actually like  the new area...this way, I can avoid the inane dating/boy-girl threads that annoy me (only sorta joking there...)

However, in the past several months, one of the most heated discussions arose from a thread on....D-I-V-O-R-C-E... As Leo T rightly pointed out, at least it's clear that political/religious etc. threads are going to be somewhat sensitive.

3. Most heinous thread of the 2011 to date for me was about "Thieving" GYPSIES!  Now that was a thread with some amazingly racist statements!  I'm pleased though that these posters have had their stupidity and racism immortalized and I can only hope that their words come back and bite them -- hard-- one day in the not so distant future...So, in a way, I'm with Kev303 on this...but the site owners should be aware that these kinds of postings appear to violate the terms of the webhost.

4. Legal Issues Involving Insults and Privacy.    I think many of the recent problems perhaps stem from a lack of a clear and coherent policy and practice involving insults.  I understand that it is a work in progress.  

On privacy, people should be aware that Switzerland has very strict policies. One cannot post someone's picture or other information without consent! 

Thanks again, Felipe!  

"Harris, echoing the blood lust of Hitchens, calls, in his book The End of Faith, for a nuclear first strike against the Islamic world. He defends torture as a logical form of interrogation. He, like all utopians, has reduced millions of human beings and cultures he knows nothing about to primitive impediments to his vision of a better world.

"What will we do if an Islamist regime, which grows dewy-eyed at the mere mention of paradise, ever acquires long-range nuclear weaponry?" Harris asks. "If history is any guide, we will not be sure about where the offending warheads are or what their state of readiness is, and so we will be unable to rely on targeted, conventional weapons to destroy them. In such a situation, the only thing likely to ensure our survival may be a nuclear first strike of our own.

Needless to say, this would be an unthinkable crime -- as it would kill tens of millions of innocent civilians in a single day -- but it may be the only course of action available to us, given what Islamists believe." Harris reduces a fifth of the world's population to a vast, primitive enemy. He blithely accepts that we may have to murder "tens of millions of people in a single day." His bigotry, and the bigotry of all who dehumanize others, sets the stage for indiscriminate slaughter and atrocity. The people to be killed, we are told, are not really distinct individuals. They do not have hopes and aspirations. They only appear human. They must be destroyed because of what they represent, what lurks beneath the surface of their human form. This dehumanization, especially by those who live in a society with the technological capacity to carry out acts of massive industrial slaughter, is terrifying. The new atheists see only one truth -- their truth. Human beings must become like them, think like them and adopt their values, which they insist are universal, or be banished from civilized society. All other values, which they never investigate or examine, are dismissed as inferior". (from The Dangerous Atheism of Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris by Chris Hedges, son of a Presbyterian minister, a graduate of Harvard Divinity School – though not ordained – journalist in Central and South America in the 80s decade of atrocities against human rights, journalist during the war in the former Yugoslavia and journalist living in the Middle East for seven years: http://www.alternet.org/rights/80449/?page=1

Racism is the belief that a particular race is better or worse than another, and that a person is born with their social and moral traits, which are related to their race. Are we back in god damn 15th- 16th centurie?? Seriously pleas grow up, if you think all of them are guilty because one group of idiots messed up then I feel sorry for you! I hate my curly hair what I got from my mom, should I shoot her now for that?? How is linked my mom and my hair to anything. Simple, if one guy kills someone you love and lets say he is estonian (safe for me to say as I am one) so should you ask for revange for this person or send a bom to hole estonia?? Think about it before you start to make stupid comments about ppl who are around us! I dont like racism, I hate it! I have made few guys lose there jobs because they just had to say something rude about my african friend! Think first speak after!

btw, I am not going to shoot my mom I got my self Straightener! 

*Dear Rich:

Sometimes it helps -- A LOT -- to know that one is not alone with a buncha racists amongst the expatriates in Switzerland...

Have a politically correct, environmentally sound and multicultural day...

Most sincerely,

Translator

P.S.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/Rightwing_plans_new_anti-immigration_campaign.html?cid=30299008

http://www.thelocal.ch/220/20110523/

http://www.thelocal.ch/204/20110518/

It don't matter...

Ebony and Ivory

Am I allowed to say I dont like Michael Jackson?... never did... although I appreciate he had talent...

I have just reported you to the Administration!  

Yours sincerely...

The poltically-correct, anti-racist patrol...

(P.S. I don't really like much of his work after Thriller...but you can't write that...)

The discussion is getting a bit muddled now, and getting away from the issue. There are 2 questions here:

1. What to do about the 'racist' poster?

I'm completely happy with Nir's action: the poster got a warning. Although I think that his/her statements were unacceptable I think a forum ban is too strong because (1) as far as I know there are no forum rules of conduct, and (2) there is no precedent, i.e. the poster didn't know that what he/she did would lead to this. If the poster really doesn't learn from the warning a ban will follow eventually.

2. Should this forum have a political section?

Judging by the length of this thread (after a few hours) I'd say 'No'. I know a few (international) forums where political sections work fine, but they are strictly moderated; I don't expect that the Glocals team wants to dedicate themselves to this.

I don't think we need to bring the whole racism vs. freedom of speech discussion in here. Don't forget you always have the freedom to ignore anyone who you think crosses the line.

The only type of racism I'm fully aligned with:

1. How many warnings should the "racist" poster get?

I'm pretty certain this person has been warned before. And others have been warned for much less serious "offenses."

2.  Freedom to ignore... 

Yes, history has shown how well it works to ignore racists and facists...Thanks again to Felipe for the thread..

Hi Edward,

I have reported the poster to the admins on the 16th May, they confirmed me he/she has been warned, one week after we are still at the same situation...

Cheers,

Geoffrey

I have warned the poster few weeks ago...

I meant I have informed the admin about the poster few weeks ago...

1. In my opinion - one. The 2nd infraction could lead to a temporary ban, and the 3rd to a permanent one. That's how I've seen it work elsewhere.

2. I should have expected that response, and realize I wasn't clear enough. Racism shouldn't be ignored. But I am talking about ignoring this specific poster; in a small community where people are overwhelmingly tolerant and open-minded you shouldn't let that one fanatic get to you; ignoring him/her will be better for your sanity. And if enough people decide to ignore the person he/she *might* at some point get the message.

This post contains many excellent and civilised commentary from both sides and has not been hijacked like so many other threads.  Differing opinions are important in any society, and let everyone and anyone have their say.

One observation that I may make is the absence of contributions by member(s) who often write the most hard-line and in a sense racist verbatim.  What have THEY got to say ? . . . obviously nothing !

And chapeau Felipe for your polite and undetered stance.

In response to Felipe's original question: i think it's better to let people say what they want. (sorry i didn't reply sooner, i am currently out of the country on business).

on the separate point raised elsewhere regarding whether or not it is a good idea to have political forums on glocals: there are a number of wonderful people who regularly post on political topics (Felipe being one of them) and in my opinion the vast majority of them are always polite and do their best to stick to the facts, as they understand them. it has been a great pleasure for me to have made contact with these people and it's all thanks to glocals. so i think the political forums are a good thing because, in spite of the bad press they get, they do in fact bring many people together.

i look forward to continuing to discuss politics on this site in an honest and polite manner. it just so happens im not interested in dogs, dating tips, café houses or diving...all wonderful things but just not for me. politics is what i find interesting. and i don't think i'm the only glocals member who feels the same. that's why i applaud the creation of political forum. thanks to nir and oded for that.

peace unity and respect

I did not know there was a politics forum until I saw this post.  After looking at the posts in the politics forum I think its a bad idea and I have a question for the person that started this subject.

Felipe, what about this sentence which you can find here http://www.glocals.com/#/forums/politics-and-current-affairs/War-Criminals--124889.htm

"It is well  known IDF soldiers shoot unprovoked on Palestinian children and on peaceful protesters with tear gas cannisters to the head and bulldozed over Rachel Corrie"

You don't find it racist or dehumanizing?  You don't think the poster deserves to be warned or banned?

As Rich said : "We are all adults here. We KNOW what can be construed as offensive whether it be racist or whatever"

It is obvious that all this kind of posters should get a warning and if it is not enough… they should be banned…

As Translator said : “history has shown how well it works to ignore racists and facists”

We all agree that the fight against racism is not focused only on a specific conflict, people, religion…

The main purpose of my tread was how come a member supposed to be warned can still post racists posts…

All offensive comments should be reported to the site administrators. 

The example you cited is simply one reason why I have tended to back up my comments with some sort of evidence...While this irritates some, it at least provides some fact-related basis for my arguments.

Ban tear gas cannisters - not people!  Ban unfounded accusations of racism and dehumanization not people!

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/01/woman-loses-eye-hit-tear-gas-canister-anti-israeli-protest/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/02/world/middleeast/02mideast.html

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=357_1275444642

http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

http://thewe.cc/weplanet/news/middle_east/palestine/lest_we_forget.html

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/child_41304.html

http://electronicintifada.net/content/two-children-shot-inside-unrwa-school/2948

http://warvictims.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/israel-protection-of-civilians-weekly-report/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mj-rosenberg/israels-latest-attempt-to_b_805901.html

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/17/israeli_troops_shoot_us_student_in

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/01/democracy-now-interviews-two-witnesses-to-the-killing.html

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/1/4/eyewitnesses_describe_death_of_palestinian_woman

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/01/us-woman-loses-eye-after-_n_596797.html

For those who like to think before they think.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dehumanizing

–noun

1.a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2.a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3.hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Nir,

Could we know which actions have been taken agaisnt the poster?

Many Thanks,

Felipe

I agree with manics1984 & Kev303. People must have the liberty to make absolute fools of themselves online. And be reported for them every time they step over the line...of course. I think the T&Cs are pretty clear, as they are. Dumbing them down to make them equal in size to an encyclopaedia may help, but who reads them before clicking on Post each time?

I think participating in serious online political discussions or reading them require a sterner, thicker-skinned stand. Plus a Nobody-can-hurt-me-without-my-permission-attitude. The news reported around the world includes news in hundreds of other languages, which are not as politically correct as in the one we indulge. Let's imagine, if Obama or Netanyahu had to join Glocals a few years down the line...

Asking for a permanent ban on a member or political discussions per se, I believe would be a radical solution. 

Some other limitations I cant help pondering upon:

I'm not sure how banning anyone would work, as we aren't really on a foolproof, state-of-the-art system towards which, we're paying. When I signed-up, it was pretty easy to get a profile setup and I'm not sure how effectively duplicate/faux profiles can be addressed at this point of time.

I think the moderators are doing a great job when it comes to forum management and have made it clear over time that they do not tolerate any sort of racist behaviour. They also pitch in their views to keep discussions going, unlike other uptight, politically correct site owners. Let's also remember - we didn't vote them in here. They created this site and have kept it free over the years.

Before anyone accuses me of political correctness, let me take a firm stand: I like the undercover status out there in the realms of political chaos. I don't even discuss much politics, actually. Yet, I highly recommend that part of the building. 

I think we all deserve to know… According to my values I see only one and unique right decision with a poster who got several warnings…

@Felipe - I'm afraid we don't discuss our actions regarding members with other members.  The poster was warned and we think the problem is now solved.

If it happens again I'm sure you'll bring it to our attention and we will take whatever action we feel is necessary.

As for these insinuations about some members having impunity - I strongly disagree.  We usualy warn people a few times and try to work things out before banning them, regardless of where they were born and what their politics are. 

Thanks

Oded

The poster was already warned and he gets another warning? I am very surprised by your tolerance…

I have listed 3 racists’ sentences, thank to you now I know I am able to do the same without been banned…

Merci,

Oded

Felipe, I've been watching several of these threads, and  I've seen racist and disgusting comments from both sides. Certainly you've been quite, quite selective in which comments you choose to protest.

So how about we just thank the moderators for building a great site, thank them for putting up with this childish crap, and then go outside and enjoy the amazing weather?

Just my two cents. 

'its conduct'? Its a website designed by expats, for helping expats adjust to life in Switzerland. Its not some evil, dark over lord corporation designing 'one site to rule them all'. 

I think the moderators have gone above and beyond catering to the rather capricious whims of a handful of posters. 

Having said that, I respectfully bid good day and good posting to everyone. 

By the way, David Lawson - I checked out a few of your 'psycho movie' recommendations last night. Very nice selections!

The political threads got very heated very fast, we received complaints about several people, from both sides of the discussion, and a few of them received a warning or warnings.

So far we have not banned any of the posters, but if we see that the warnings were not enough we will take more serious action.

@Felipe - if the purpose of this thread was to ask why the poster was not blocked I think we've answered your question.  If the purpose was to tell us that you disagree with the way we handled the poster, I think that's clear too. 
Re your last reply - if you have some racist remarks that you really really want to post then I prefer you keep them bottled up, but if that's not possible then do what you have to do and we'll decide how to handle it.

I'm trying to be as open and accomodating as I can here, but we seem to be going around in circles.

Thanks

Oded

"Now your first question. The "statement" to which you refer is a distortion of something that I wrote in a personal letter 11 years ago, when I was asked whether the fact that a person denies the existence of gas chambers does not prove that he is an anti-Semite. I wrote back what every sane person knows: no, of course it does not. A person might believe that Hitler exterminated 6 million Jews in some other way without being an anti-Semite. Since the point is trivial and disputed by no one, I do not know why we are discussing it.

In that context, I made a further point: even denial of the Holocaust would not prove that a person is an anti-Semite. I presume that that point too is not subject to contention. Thus if a person ignorant of modern history were told of the Holocaust and refused to believe that humans are capable of such monstrous acts, we would not conclude that he is an anti-Semite. That suffices to establish the point at issue.  

The point is considerably more general. Denial of monstrous atrocities, whatever their scale, does not in itself suffice to prove that those who deny them are racists vis-a-vis the victims. I am sure you agree with this point, which everyone constantly accepts. Thus, in the journal of the American Jewish Congress, a representative of ASI writes that stories about Hitler's anti-gypsy genocide are an "exploded fiction." In fact, as one can learn from the scholarly literature (also Wiesenthal, Vidal-Naquet, etc.), Hitler's treatment of the gypsies was on a par with his slaughter of Jews. But we do not conclude from these facts alone that the AJC and ASI are anti-gypsy racists. Similarly, numerous scholars deny that the Armenian genocide took place, and some people, like Elie Wiesel, make extraordinary efforts to prevent any commemoration or even discussion of it. Until the last few years, despite overwhelming evidence before their eyes, scholars denied the slaughter of some 10 million native Americans in North America and perhaps 100 million on the [South American] continent. Recent studies of US opinion show that the median estimate of Vietnamese casualties [resulting from the Vietnam War] is 100,000, about 1/20 of the official figure and probably 130 or 140 of the actual figure. The reason is that that is the fare they have been fed by the propaganda apparatus (media, journals of opinion, intellectuals, etc., "scholarship," etc.) for 20 years. We (at least I) do not conclude from that fact alone that virtually the whole country consists of anti-Vietnamese racists. I leave it to you to draw the obvious analogies". http://www.chomsky.info/letters/1989----.htm

Just for the record what mr Marciano failed to mention is that i also posted an activity that took place in Zurich which involved supported a project of Arab and Jewish children in Israel that do theater together and through music and dance express how they feel, i have the CD with songs in Arabic and Hebrew and i have purchased several copies and they all speak of the need to form a bridge.This is not only not racist but this activity shows my stand in a very clear way, even if i did stumble upon the wrong use of words .

I think that saying that most terror is done by Moslem extremists expresses my deep sorrow at the lack of accountablity of leaders in the Moslem world

am i saying anything no one is saying ? Masses in Egypt and in Tunis and Yemen and syria say the same, they want a change!

Sure extremism is bad in any culture and any religion but so far it is stirring a lot of trouble

I find that the tolerance of the people here for such personal attacks aimed at me only do damage to the site

Here is the score:

I have 56 friends, mr marciano 7  

I have been thanked more than 150 times for my postings

My postings have been mostly culture and music 

I organized a dog meeting with a lot of good energy 

my own dog is of mixed race and i married someone of a completely different 

culture 

whatever i had said was completely distorted 

I do not appreciate mr marciano sending me private messsages of hate and having the site administrator tell me to stop posting 

I have stopped answering political threads because the people posting are not open to see that they focus on one issue and do not see the entire problem being that of extremism as a result of people not taking responsiblity and leading their people to compromises.

I feel that my own country does compromise and is willing to go far had it not received threats and i was pointing that out

I have again and again pointed that out

I am a very simple person, i say what i think and feel and i try to do good deeds

I can not be called a racist as i dont think palestinians are a race or moslems

i also did not speak or would never ever speak anything bad about the Moslem faith

I just pointed out the need for the Arab world leaders to be accountable and for the need for the international community to hold world leaders as Gaddafi as responsible

I also think that calling settlements colonism is a very extreme name calling as it is to a great deal a matter of interpretation 

I would like the person sending me private hate mail to stop it and refuse to post any poilitcal comments from now on as i am not interesting in this useless exchange of hateful words 

I apologize to any Moslems if they felt offended, but i have been offended by this over reaction and do not think one should be bullied into silence 

I have lost interest in political debates of this kind and will in the future not part take in any political forums on glocals as i find them very one sided and too vicious 

sincerly 

s 

I really like the ” we'll decide how to handle it.”

Anyway everything is clear for me now, I am very happy to have shared my point of view. I thank you all for your contributions.

Btw just to be clear in order to avoid any doubts… I am blaming all racist posters; it really means I have any intentions to behave as them…

Cheers,

Felipe

P.S. 

I am shocked at the massive support for what i consider complete over reaction 

Racist ?

i have read nothing but massive anti Israel posts i suppose i have over reacted after reading so much negative posting about Israel 

I love this site for offering a lot of positive activity and posting to have ignored all my positive posts and to scapegoat me led by a member who as far as i know has never organized one social meeting or did anything loving or positive is just plain ugly

birds of a feather flock together is all i can say 

"I do not appreciate mr marciano sending me private messsages of hate"

I have sent a private message with the subject "FYI" and with the link of the this tread... You can ask Oded for confirmation...

Where is the message of hate?

Anyway I am done with this tread...

this is not a dialogue it is an ego trip supported by other ego trippers

a positive person calls for positive action which i clearly did and do 

a person is judged also by their deeds and ALL of their deeds

Sorry to interfere, but weren't Translator and Breshna (on one side of the discussion) temporarily banned after one warning for heated replies?

Is there a special reason "other posters" (on the other side of the discussion) are only "warned" after having been privately and publicly reported several times?

Just a simple question...

this is only ONE exemple 

there are countless things written here also one member quoted a source that said jews use the holocaust as a manipulative tools 

i dont keep track but the state of israel was under massive verbal abuse

i actually dont want to get into it anymore just to say

i am so sad that people are so brainwashed and do not see that it is not that simple

to call someone a racist while allowing yourself to say anything about israel

and to call zionism racism is for me a huge distortion

yet to call to ban me off the site when i organize activities

amongst them a theater show which NO ONE showed interest of Arab and Jewish children from Israel

why is that ? why dont people care about what good positive actions are being done ?

The member led others to a campaign against me

and had that member organized anything a party a gathering anything

a song thread i would have said fine

but to demonize me like this is so ugly and unfair

it exposes the ugly side of members on this site and this is truly my last word on the topic

I will not react to more personal attacks

oscar wilde said

"worse than  being talked about is  not being talked about"

but now i really want you guys to stop this ugly fight and look at all the positive forums and activities on this wonderful site 

stop the war of words and blame and look at why this site was set up 

it is a social network not an anti social net work

nothing bad has happened, not one got killed 

except the name of the state of israel got a few more tomatoes

we shall over come  

Quote:

"Here is the score:

I have 56 friends, mr marciano 7  

I have been thanked more than 150 times for my postings

I organized a dog meeting with a lot of good energy 

my own dog is of mixed race and i married someone of a completely different 

culture"

Comment:

Star, with all due respect, you are at least twice Felipe's age! Counting friends and "thanks", and mixing dogs and children into all of this...? 

not entirely sure that the number of friends, or the number of "thanks" has ANYTHING to do with the quality of the postings, esp on a subject like politics...

I have more of both Star...and I am the first to admit that  I post mostly shite.....

lets just maybe try and keep the smiley faces going... write like you talk, with a smile... and it wont antagonise so many people... just my helpful Wednesday hint.

Last thing we all want is a huge slapping/wrestling match at the next big party...

(unless someone brings baby oil that is..)

I prefer to do not comment on "I am shocked at the massive support for what i consider complete over reaction".... It is wiser....

Let me just clarify something here. 

Laws all over the world are being tested on these issues. I have no idea how things will evolve in Switzerland.

In using glocals, each member has agreed to terms and conditions and that disputes will be resolved according to the laws of Geneva, Switzerland.  Of course, in the end, that would have to be tested as well.

I can't imagine anyone getting so angry that they decide to sue Glocals. If they did, it would cost a shedload of money as many lawyers charge 500-600 chf an hour and the Swiss system would not be likely to grant any substantial damages for reputation...

What I do know from reading the Swiss press and other sources is that the Swiss take very, very seriously issues of privacy and protection of reputation. 

This is why, in particular, I was shocked to see that thread where the woman claimed to be searching for the father of her daughter for medical reasons. There is almost no way that the site administrators could verify her claim.  A person's life could be destroyed by some sociopath -- not that I am asserting she was/is one -- who makes unverifiable claims and broadcasts them to potentially tens of thousands of people.

http://www.lematin.ch/actu/suisse/premiere-suisse-condamnee-insulter-facebook-363762

The above is an article citing a recent case of a where a young woman from St. Gallen was fined several hundred francs for having insulted a man on-line.

More to the point, is that no business, Glocals included, does not want to be seen as encouraging a climate of harassment of any one individual or of a group.

After all these comments, I would have to say that I would not be all that sorry to see political/current affairs posts removed from Glocals. I don't see how these on-line disputes can be managed over time.

That said, there are other threads that have blown up as well, particularly those that include foreigners expressing any negative views of this place... but I will leave that for another day..

I suspect that by the end of the day, Felipe M will probably have a lot more friend requests...just so he can catch up...

"i am so sad that people are so brainwashed and do not see that it is not that simple to call someone a racist"

How long do we need to support this poster??????? How long?????????????

Star, you should report ALL PRIVATE MESSAGES OF HATE you recieved.

You have all my support.

Kind regards.

Medicis

It looks as though my question got lost in these renewed outbreaks of perfectly "politically correct" public posts from the "posters" this post is about

"... So far we have not banned any of the posters, but if we see that the warnings were not enough we will take more serious action.

...

Thanks

Oded

Sorry to interfere, but weren't Translator and Breshna (on one side of the discussion) temporarily banned after one warning for heated replies?

Is there a special reason "other posters" (on the other side of the discussion) are only "warned" after having been privately and publicly reported several times?

New instances within the last hour in this same thread...

Just a simple question...

"brainwashed" it is nice to feel insulted...

Dear Paddy,

Only if you say it's because he was black!  But you can like Obama coz he's a piker like you!

This thread is losing all focus and getting ridiculous.

Dogs, friends, dead horses, CDs...

Managing a social network with 50,000 members requires alot of daily decisions and there will always be some people that agree with what we do and some that don't. 

In the end we have to do what we think is right, even if it means that some people disagree.

If that makes us the bad guys its something we'll have to live with.

Thanks

Oded

Can I report the two insulting mails i received from Star?  I never reported them and never replied to them - I'm bigger than that.  Did I complain about being compared to a dog in the Dylan forum?

No double standards here please, one is enough!

Cameron certainly plays ping-pong like he's attached to something by strings...

Thanks for pointing that out Andrei...

For my part, I will just say that the 48 hour ban gave me a well-deserved time-out from my Glocals' addiction and to do my laundry... It also gave me the opportunity to exchange messages with Breshna... 

In addition, being from Detroit, I can take it...The brothers Ofek have been fairly fair with me so I don't have any complaints...at. the. moment...

i couldnt resist it... sorry buddy...

Everyone wants to be Irish...even Obama...

(although he's only drinking the beer because someone told him its black... FAIL...everyone knows Guinness is dark ruby red! What an eejit!)

I think that's a great point, Translator (Post 80). 

As far as I know, in Switzerland: This law helps everyone with respect to racism (but it for sure seems it may go beyond that, in practice). 

http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/311_0/a261bis.html

The link points to the English translation, which is for informational purposes only and has no legal force.

Can posting opinions ad nauseam, with the idea that they will be eventually be accepted as proof by assertion (whether intended or not) be construed as propaganda against race, religion or ethnic origin?

Perhaps. And if yes, many of us need to start worrying right away...

Dude! He never said it was black! That was the Irish Times that called it that...

And he drank it all, unlike Clinton who only drank half and Bush -- who only drinks non-alcoholic beer (at least when Laura B is around).  Some marketing wag said that Guiness now can cancel their publicity tab for the rest of the year...

BTW, it's O'bama now... 

dont want to be pedantic... but you mean "percentage"... not average...

(but I got your point ;-))

@Breshna : You have been banned the same day that you received the warning without put anything racists.

I understand to be administrator in glocals is not easy at all, as Oded say “we'll decide how to handle it” and we have to respect their decisions. It is not very democratic, but life is unfair

Probably in Geneva, but apparently not in Zurich where the Minister in charge of these affairs declared that the Swiss Democrats' (not to be confused with the US party except maybe some of them) recent propaganda using the term "negre" in cantonal elections' agitprop was not "dehumanizing."

http://www.24heures.ch/democrates-suisses-viole-norme-antiracisme-2011-04-06

Not all statements that are xenophobic or in bad taste are punishable (by law), the spokesperson for the Justice Minister was reported to have said.

Someone angry at that might say, "Thanks, bitch!" But not me... 

Here it is, Breshna:

"... In the end we have to do what we think is right, even if it means that some people disagree.

If that makes us the bad guys its something we'll have to live with.

Thanks

Oded"

We don't have to agree with them...

I think its great we have this site where we can exchange views and 'meet' other people from such different walks of life. But I must admit I don't know how Oded and Nir manage to monitor everything: it seems like a mammoth task.

Hum sorry, marksist did i ask your opinion ?

It's your problem if you didn't report her messages 

This thread is out of control and heading for a concrete wall. I suggest that moderators shut it down.

I think everyone has had their say and we're not going to agree in another 200 posts. Glocals mods have reacted and given a reasonable response. Offending forum member has been warned and has responded in this thread. OP (Felipe) and others have been heard loud and clear, everyone is aware of the situation, and I expect that the offending member's posts will be under close scrutiny from now on.

I do think that the discussion 'should there be a political forum here' is useful, but perhaps this should be moved to the political forum, and hopefully the discussion can be more constructive.

If only we could discuss politics and religion without getting nasty about each other...

most of us can...

The thread is over, it should be closed.

The Felipe´s thread demontrates that a poster who has been several warned and who posted several racist posts, has the right to say to the people who supports the Felipe are brainwashed in Glocals lool

The rules are clear and the admins decide what is right or wrong.

Very deep! A person is accused of sending hate mail. The accused denies it and others join ranks to offer support to the 'victim'  against the unconvicted offender.

I don't have a "problem" not reporting the messages. I'm above that sort of behaviour. Nor the unsabstantiated (in fact blantantly false) charge that I posted a picture and pointed this out to the person.  No reply!  Interesting!  Nor with the accusation of racism and dehumanizing from someone else thanked by the same individual who falsely accused me of posting the cartoon of the IDF soldiers.  Interesting standards for humanitarian lawyers!

I hope that accuser of racism and denumanization has had a chance to digest the definitions of racism and dehumanizing I provided as well as the NY Times and Fox news reports as well.  Because I have many more reports for that person to digest.

Now i' m waiting for looooong copypaste post...

Cheers ^_^

So clever!

Ok folks.

Now that everyone's had their say and the thread has become the usual insult-fest I'm closing it down.

Thanks to everyone who contributed and peace unto all.

Oded