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Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Nov 29, 2014 @ 00:17

Hi everyone,


 


I stayed in a shared apartment and when I moved in, I paid a deposit which was just the similar amount with the rent.


There was no official contract document, the landlord just wrote me like "I received 800CHF rent for November and 800CHF deposit from (My name)."


I originally planned to stay there for 3 months, but as there was a problem , I explained the landlord my situation and told him that I'll move out next month.


Then the landlord said, "when you want to move out, unless you tell me at least one month before, I can't give you back the deposit."


And he goes like, "but if you find someone who can replace you for the following month, then no problem, I give you back."


I said yes and found someone who will move in on the day after I leave, so I let him know.


And, as I move out in several days and will not be able to see him again before leaving,


I asked him to return the deposit before I leave-which is tomorrow.


However, he said he can return it only after the new tenant pay the rent and deposit.


But what I'm thinking is that :


0. As I'm moving out before 3 months as I planned before, though it's because of a serious problem, I understand that I need to find someone immediately for him.


1. But what he asked me to do for the deposit is, finding someone who can replace me. And I fullfilled that condition. As I did what he asked, I have a right to have my deposit back before I leave.


2. And, my deposit and the new person's payment should be dealt seperately. (the person and I are not his bank.. I don't want to get my deposit from the person's account,  I want my deposit which should be in the landlord's account.)


3. So, he should return the deposit back regarless of the new person's preceding payment.. (The new person is arriving after my leaving, which means if I should do as the landlord said, there is no way to get the deposit back..)


Also, I don't think he lodged the deposit with a bank in my name.. I think that's not right either.


And he once said that, even though the rent of one room 1200CHF, we (my roommate and me) shouldn't tell the police this, and he wanted us to just say that "As he is generous to students, we are just paying 300CHF something like that and helping to clean or sth."


I also thought this is kind of weird, although I had no idea why he said that.


As my 'money' is with him, I couldn't say 'You should return it now' like this.. feel like there is nothing I can do.


Is there any chance that I can have my deposit back from him before I leave??


Is he right? Should I really have to wait until the new person pays everything??


I need any advice please.. Thanks.

The text you are quoting:

Hi everyone,


 


I stayed in a shared apartment and when I moved in, I paid a deposit which was just the similar amount with the rent.


There was no official contract document, the landlord just wrote me like "I received 800CHF rent for November and 800CHF deposit from (My name)."


I originally planned to stay there for 3 months, but as there was a problem , I explained the landlord my situation and told him that I'll move out next month.


Then the landlord said, "when you want to move out, unless you tell me at least one month before, I can't give you back the deposit."


And he goes like, "but if you find someone who can replace you for the following month, then no problem, I give you back."


I said yes and found someone who will move in on the day after I leave, so I let him know.


And, as I move out in several days and will not be able to see him again before leaving,


I asked him to return the deposit before I leave-which is tomorrow.


However, he said he can return it only after the new tenant pay the rent and deposit.


But what I'm thinking is that :


0. As I'm moving out before 3 months as I planned before, though it's because of a serious problem, I understand that I need to find someone immediately for him.


1. But what he asked me to do for the deposit is, finding someone who can replace me. And I fullfilled that condition. As I did what he asked, I have a right to have my deposit back before I leave.


2. And, my deposit and the new person's payment should be dealt seperately. (the person and I are not his bank.. I don't want to get my deposit from the person's account,  I want my deposit which should be in the landlord's account.)


3. So, he should return the deposit back regarless of the new person's preceding payment.. (The new person is arriving after my leaving, which means if I should do as the landlord said, there is no way to get the deposit back..)


Also, I don't think he lodged the deposit with a bank in my name.. I think that's not right either.


And he once said that, even though the rent of one room 1200CHF, we (my roommate and me) shouldn't tell the police this, and he wanted us to just say that "As he is generous to students, we are just paying 300CHF something like that and helping to clean or sth."


I also thought this is kind of weird, although I had no idea why he said that.


As my 'money' is with him, I couldn't say 'You should return it now' like this.. feel like there is nothing I can do.


Is there any chance that I can have my deposit back from him before I leave??


Is he right? Should I really have to wait until the new person pays everything??


I need any advice please.. Thanks.


Heewon SNov 29, 2014 @ 00:17
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 1
Nov 29, 2014 @ 01:14

Sorry, at the subject: *keep

The text you are quoting:

Sorry, at the subject: *keep


Heewon S, Nov 29, 2014 @ 01:14
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 2
Nov 29, 2014 @ 11:23

go and see http://www.asloca.ch/asloca-genève  they can help you.


 


 

The text you are quoting:

go and see http://www.asloca.ch/asloca-genève  they can help you.


 


 


Soul3Soul, Nov 29, 2014 @ 11:23
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 3
Nov 29, 2014 @ 16:38

Or start by threatening him to go to Asloca if he doesn't give you your money back. You may not need to contact them. Not to mention that if he doesn't want the police involved, he's probably subletting this room illegaly. Seems like you got quite some leverage here.

The text you are quoting:

Or start by threatening him to go to Asloca if he doesn't give you your money back. You may not need to contact them. Not to mention that if he doesn't want the police involved, he's probably subletting this room illegaly. Seems like you got quite some leverage here.


Casuistik, Nov 29, 2014 @ 16:38
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 4
Nov 29, 2014 @ 21:21

unfortunately ASLOCA is not dealing with subleasers. 

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unfortunately ASLOCA is not dealing with subleasers. 


Mursal Ali, Nov 29, 2014 @ 21:21
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 5
Nov 29, 2014 @ 21:24

Try to contact this office 


http://ge.ch/justice/themes-nuage/loyer

The text you are quoting:

Try to contact this office 


http://ge.ch/justice/themes-nuage/loyer


Mursal Ali, Nov 29, 2014 @ 21:24
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 6
Nov 29, 2014 @ 21:40

unfortunately ASLOCA is not dealing with subleasers. 


Nov 29, 14 21:21

This would be absurd... if it was the case... Anyone can confirm this?

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This would be absurd... if it was the case... Anyone can confirm this?


Casuistik, Nov 29, 2014 @ 21:40
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 7
Nov 29, 2014 @ 22:23

He must not have declared the money he is earning from this rent. He didnt do a proper contract and didnt deposit the money in the right way. So he is wrong and you can tell him that you are aware of all this and if he doesnt give the money back then you will have to involve the authorities which wont be in his favour. IF it was a normal contract then YES you only get your deposit back once the tenant you have found is accepted and pays the deposit to secure the place.

The text you are quoting:

He must not have declared the money he is earning from this rent. He didnt do a proper contract and didnt deposit the money in the right way. So he is wrong and you can tell him that you are aware of all this and if he doesnt give the money back then you will have to involve the authorities which wont be in his favour. IF it was a normal contract then YES you only get your deposit back once the tenant you have found is accepted and pays the deposit to secure the place.


Nasrin J, Nov 29, 2014 @ 22:23
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 8
Nov 30, 2014 @ 19:05

I will send you message shortly via personal message.

The text you are quoting:

I will send you message shortly via personal message.


Dave G, Nov 30, 2014 @ 19:05
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 9
Nov 30, 2014 @ 19:48

Thank you so much everyone, really appreciate your advices. I really do.


 


I sent the email to ASLOCA yesterday, and will contact the other office as well.


 


But, how can I prove that the landlord is earning money illegally by subleasing?


The other tenants(except my roommate) are so close to the landlord, so I don't think they will frankly say how much they are paying.


And what I only have is the landlord's handwriting("600+600 received").


 


I feel so insecure right now.. But I'll try as much as I can. Thank you again. If there is any other more advice, I'll appreciate it.

The text you are quoting:

Thank you so much everyone, really appreciate your advices. I really do.


 


I sent the email to ASLOCA yesterday, and will contact the other office as well.


 


But, how can I prove that the landlord is earning money illegally by subleasing?


The other tenants(except my roommate) are so close to the landlord, so I don't think they will frankly say how much they are paying.


And what I only have is the landlord's handwriting("600+600 received").


 


I feel so insecure right now.. But I'll try as much as I can. Thank you again. If there is any other more advice, I'll appreciate it.


Heewon S, Nov 30, 2014 @ 19:48
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 10
Nov 30, 2014 @ 20:00

So it means,


even if I don't find someone to replace me for December, can I get the deposit back? as it is not a normal contract?


 


 


And actually, what he told me last time was


"If you want to move out, you need to tell me at least 1 month before."


 


But he added "Otherwise I can't return the deposit" this time after I told him I need to move out..


 


Is this gonna be work when I claim that I need the deposit back? 

The text you are quoting:

So it means,


even if I don't find someone to replace me for December, can I get the deposit back? as it is not a normal contract?


 


 


And actually, what he told me last time was


"If you want to move out, you need to tell me at least 1 month before."


 


But he added "Otherwise I can't return the deposit" this time after I told him I need to move out..


 


Is this gonna be work when I claim that I need the deposit back? 


Heewon S, Nov 30, 2014 @ 20:00
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 11
Nov 30, 2014 @ 20:05

He must not have declared the money he is earning from this rent. He didnt do a proper contract and didnt deposit the money in the right way. So he is wrong and you can tell him that you are aware of all this and if he doesnt give the money back then you will have to involve the authorities which wont be in his favour. IF it was a normal contract then YES you only get your deposit back once the tenant you have found is accepted and pays the deposit to secure the place.


Nov 29, 14 22:23

Oh, the second question was about this.

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Oh, the second question was about this.


Heewon S, Nov 30, 2014 @ 20:05
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 12
Nov 30, 2014 @ 20:52

go and see http://www.asloca.ch/asloca-genève  they can help you.

 

 


Nov 29, 14 11:23

Well first to get help from Asloca, you must be a member CHF 50-


Then you make an appointment, they will disucss 30minutes with you the situation.


They might suggest they send a letter but will cost you CHF 200- , its like they are lawyers and it could scare the Rentor (subleasor).


As your a Rentee with no contract 'bail loyer' you have virtually no rights. As he is subleasing, your rights are very little or almost none.


Absolutly until you get your deposit back, DONT GIVE UP THE KEYS. Sorry but there are other ways to get your deposit back. Geneva is full of 1000s of stories of sublease nightmares.


I sent you a personal message and we can discuss further.

The text you are quoting:

Well first to get help from Asloca, you must be a member CHF 50-


Then you make an appointment, they will disucss 30minutes with you the situation.


They might suggest they send a letter but will cost you CHF 200- , its like they are lawyers and it could scare the Rentor (subleasor).


As your a Rentee with no contract 'bail loyer' you have virtually no rights. As he is subleasing, your rights are very little or almost none.


Absolutly until you get your deposit back, DONT GIVE UP THE KEYS. Sorry but there are other ways to get your deposit back. Geneva is full of 1000s of stories of sublease nightmares.


I sent you a personal message and we can discuss further.


Dave G, Nov 30, 2014 @ 20:52
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 13
Dec 1, 2014 @ 08:11

Well first to get help from Asloca, you must be a member CHF 50-

Then you make an appointment, they will disucss 30minutes with you the situation.

They might suggest they send a letter but will cost you CHF 200- , its like they are lawyers and it could scare the Rentor (subleasor).

As your a Rentee with no contract 'bail loyer' you have virtually no rights. As he is subleasing, your rights are very little or almost none.

Absolutly until you get your deposit back, DONT GIVE UP THE KEYS. Sorry but there are other ways to get your deposit back. Geneva is full of 1000s of stories of sublease nightmares.

I sent you a personal message and we can discuss further.


Nov 30, 14 20:52

Just to say that the ASLOCA membership fee has gone up.  I think I paid CHF 65 last time.


Also, there is almost always a waiting-list to get an appointment to discuss the situation.


Not their fault perhaps, but if the renter is leaving CH and is short of time …


R.

The text you are quoting:

Just to say that the ASLOCA membership fee has gone up.  I think I paid CHF 65 last time.


Also, there is almost always a waiting-list to get an appointment to discuss the situation.


Not their fault perhaps, but if the renter is leaving CH and is short of time …


R.


Ritchie, Dec 1, 2014 @ 08:11
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 14
Dec 1, 2014 @ 13:38

Maybe  with ASLOCA there might be a wait for the appointments you make over the telephone. I have never done that myself as I have always been able to go to the for the daily 'permanance' where  you just turn up and wait your turn.. best to get there as close to the opening time for that in order to wait less, there is always a roomful. Times are on their website mentioned 2nd post.


The first time you go you have to also pay a fee for opening the file, which is in addition to the 65f annual fee it is not much, but I cannot access that on their website at present time, it's stated on the 'devenir membre' page

The text you are quoting:

Maybe  with ASLOCA there might be a wait for the appointments you make over the telephone. I have never done that myself as I have always been able to go to the for the daily 'permanance' where  you just turn up and wait your turn.. best to get there as close to the opening time for that in order to wait less, there is always a roomful. Times are on their website mentioned 2nd post.


The first time you go you have to also pay a fee for opening the file, which is in addition to the 65f annual fee it is not much, but I cannot access that on their website at present time, it's stated on the 'devenir membre' page


TogJay, Dec 1, 2014 @ 13:38
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 15
Dec 1, 2014 @ 14:18

It currently costs 70 CHF per year to be a member of ASLOCA. (For commercial renters, it is 140 CHF.) There is also an initial 20 CHF fee to join. So it will cost a total of 90 CHF for them to consider your case and give their input.


ASLOCA DOES help subleasers. ASLOCA helps those who are on the "tenant"/"renter" side of the equation. So for a sublease, they will help the person subletting from someone else, not the person subletting their apartment/room out. If person/entity A owns a property which is rented to person B, and person C sublets from person B, ASLOCA will help person C regarding subletting from person B. ASLOCA will NOT help person B regarding any issue with person C; ASLOCA would only possibly assist person B regarding issues with person A.  


To join ASLOCA and meet with their staff to discuss the case, you can just show up without an appointment on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday, between 16:30 and 18:00, or on Wednesday and Friday, between 12:30 and 13:30.


As long as you arrive within that time period, they will give you a number to wait and you will be seen. (So if you arrive on a Thursday at 17:50, they will still see you even if it is say 18:30 when they reach your number.)

The text you are quoting:

It currently costs 70 CHF per year to be a member of ASLOCA. (For commercial renters, it is 140 CHF.) There is also an initial 20 CHF fee to join. So it will cost a total of 90 CHF for them to consider your case and give their input.


ASLOCA DOES help subleasers. ASLOCA helps those who are on the "tenant"/"renter" side of the equation. So for a sublease, they will help the person subletting from someone else, not the person subletting their apartment/room out. If person/entity A owns a property which is rented to person B, and person C sublets from person B, ASLOCA will help person C regarding subletting from person B. ASLOCA will NOT help person B regarding any issue with person C; ASLOCA would only possibly assist person B regarding issues with person A.  


To join ASLOCA and meet with their staff to discuss the case, you can just show up without an appointment on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday, between 16:30 and 18:00, or on Wednesday and Friday, between 12:30 and 13:30.


As long as you arrive within that time period, they will give you a number to wait and you will be seen. (So if you arrive on a Thursday at 17:50, they will still see you even if it is say 18:30 when they reach your number.)


Jason M, Dec 1, 2014 @ 14:18
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 16
Dec 1, 2014 @ 15:27

I think your landlord is right actually in his claim: you have to find someone to take your rent so you get your deport back, you agree about that. But if you find someone who can't make the 1st payment and can't pay the deposit, then your landlord is left without a tenant and loses the month's rent, and therefore he should keep your deposit. All your landlord is saying is that he first wants to see that the guy you find is able to make the rest. Sounds fair to me. 

The text you are quoting:

I think your landlord is right actually in his claim: you have to find someone to take your rent so you get your deport back, you agree about that. But if you find someone who can't make the 1st payment and can't pay the deposit, then your landlord is left without a tenant and loses the month's rent, and therefore he should keep your deposit. All your landlord is saying is that he first wants to see that the guy you find is able to make the rest. Sounds fair to me. 


Nir Ofek, Dec 1, 2014 @ 15:27
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 17
Dec 1, 2014 @ 17:08

Jason is correct, Asloca has raised the membership. I guess when I was renting versus owning my place, it changed. sorry


http://www.asloca.ch/asloca-gen%C3%A8ve


 

The text you are quoting:

Jason is correct, Asloca has raised the membership. I guess when I was renting versus owning my place, it changed. sorry


http://www.asloca.ch/asloca-gen%C3%A8ve


 


Dave G, Dec 1, 2014 @ 17:08
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 18
Dec 1, 2014 @ 19:55

I agree with Nir, the landlord has the right to keep your deposit


you must bring other tenant or one month notice then you can leave

The text you are quoting:

I agree with Nir, the landlord has the right to keep your deposit


you must bring other tenant or one month notice then you can leave


Raed A, Dec 1, 2014 @ 19:55
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 19
Dec 2, 2014 @ 00:07

i think the landlord is right on this one. i don't know the law, but what he's asking seems reasonable.


and of course asloca deal with sublet issues (mursal: you're giving wrong into and misleading others)

The text you are quoting:

i think the landlord is right on this one. i don't know the law, but what he's asking seems reasonable.


and of course asloca deal with sublet issues (mursal: you're giving wrong into and misleading others)


Mark Spencer, Dec 2, 2014 @ 00:07
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 20
Dec 2, 2014 @ 09:02

Starting with the emergency _hence it's not told what kind of emergency it was,most of interns are straight when they are very new to Geneva but when they meet fellow interns/friends they can share room at a cheap price or no rent they don't care leaving any time with no notice. 


If the your leaving Geneva for good (emergency) then it's reasonable to have you're deposit back otherwise stick to your agreement... It's so same if the landlord kicks you without notice and deposit in your hand....


Threats might not help!the landlord has done nothing wrong, the police has nothing do with your case, but if you feel that you should get to them no obligations go on.


Keeping the keys with you means you're still  using the room.....look for more balanced solution with the landlord. 


 


Best deal look for someone to replace you ;rent plus deposit has to be meet and be patience you will get your deposit I think.


 


All the best.

The text you are quoting:

Starting with the emergency _hence it's not told what kind of emergency it was,most of interns are straight when they are very new to Geneva but when they meet fellow interns/friends they can share room at a cheap price or no rent they don't care leaving any time with no notice. 


If the your leaving Geneva for good (emergency) then it's reasonable to have you're deposit back otherwise stick to your agreement... It's so same if the landlord kicks you without notice and deposit in your hand....


Threats might not help!the landlord has done nothing wrong, the police has nothing do with your case, but if you feel that you should get to them no obligations go on.


Keeping the keys with you means you're still  using the room.....look for more balanced solution with the landlord. 


 


Best deal look for someone to replace you ;rent plus deposit has to be meet and be patience you will get your deposit I think.


 


All the best.


LIZ N, Dec 2, 2014 @ 09:02
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Re: Urgent.. Is the landlord right? (He refused to return deposit & keet the rent secret to police)
Post 21
Dec 2, 2014 @ 10:16

Thank you very much to others for careful and various opinions again.


 


Actually, I feel bad to find another girl to replace me(Though I found one, I told her everything and she is thinking about it now), as I can see that the landlord is renting the room in kind of illegal way, so I don't want another girl to be involved...


So the best thing for me is that, get the deposit back without anyone to replace me.. But it seems that it could not be solution..?


 


As I said, I fully understand my duty to find someone to replace me,


but as he has been doing something in not right way, I feel confused.


 


Do I just need to find another girl?


 


*And for my emergency(to Liz): can't tell in detail, but only thing I can say is this was unavoidable and landlord is understanding my situation..(everyone will do, I think)


Is this gonna be help when I claim that it's reasonable to have my deposit back as Liz said??

The text you are quoting:

Thank you very much to others for careful and various opinions again.


 


Actually, I feel bad to find another girl to replace me(Though I found one, I told her everything and she is thinking about it now), as I can see that the landlord is renting the room in kind of illegal way, so I don't want another girl to be involved...


So the best thing for me is that, get the deposit back without anyone to replace me.. But it seems that it could not be solution..?


 


As I said, I fully understand my duty to find someone to replace me,


but as he has been doing something in not right way, I feel confused.


 


Do I just need to find another girl?


 


*And for my emergency(to Liz): can't tell in detail, but only thing I can say is this was unavoidable and landlord is understanding my situation..(everyone will do, I think)


Is this gonna be help when I claim that it's reasonable to have my deposit back as Liz said??


Heewon S, Dec 2, 2014 @ 10:16
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