Just scrolling down the forum threads.
Quick question.
Does anyone here give a damn about any other global situation besides what is happening in Gaza?
Just scrolling down the forum threads.
Quick question.
Does anyone here give a damn about any other global situation besides what is happening in Gaza?
Just scrolling down the forum threads.
Quick question.
Does anyone here give a damn about any other global situation besides what is happening in Gaza?
Reportedly:
- A right-wing yoga guru with a certain amount of undeclared assets is hoping to twist the Indian Govt's arm against black money
- Pakistan has had series of blasts over the last two years
- A Bangladeshi woman 'bobbited' her neighbour and went to the police station with the prize.
- Al Qaida's food bio-terror looms over the United Kingdom
but, these are just things that newspapers tell us. We don't believe them.
When it comes to Gaza, we know exactly what's happening at grass-root level.
Reportedly:
- A right-wing yoga guru with a certain amount of undeclared assets is hoping to twist the Indian Govt's arm against black money
- Pakistan has had series of blasts over the last two years
- A Bangladeshi woman 'bobbited' her neighbour and went to the police station with the prize.
- Al Qaida's food bio-terror looms over the United Kingdom
but, these are just things that newspapers tell us. We don't believe them.
When it comes to Gaza, we know exactly what's happening at grass-root level.
Just scrolling down the forum threads.
Quick question.
Does anyone here give a damn about any other global situation besides what is happening in Gaza?
Well, yes, of course... the other topic is that Obama -- the black man who was supposed to save the universe -- is a "war monger..."
Well, yes, of course... the other topic is that Obama -- the black man who was supposed to save the universe -- is a "war monger..."
It is not enough for journalists to see themselves as mere messengers without understanding the hidden agendas of the message and the myths that surround it. - John Pilger
So if there exists no hidden agenda, we must add some. Add Google keywords 'Obama', 'Sarkozy', 'Merkel'. One sec, let's sprinkle some 'Barack' & 'Israel' masala as well. How else'd we get blog hits? - Some crazy wise guy called Anonymous
It is not enough for journalists to see themselves as mere messengers without understanding the hidden agendas of the message and the myths that surround it. - John Pilger
So if there exists no hidden agenda, we must add some. Add Google keywords 'Obama', 'Sarkozy', 'Merkel'. One sec, let's sprinkle some 'Barack' & 'Israel' masala as well. How else'd we get blog hits? - Some crazy wise guy called Anonymous
Just scrolling down the forum threads.
Quick question.
Does anyone here give a damn about any other global situation besides what is happening in Gaza?
Quick answer.
Everybody here seems "to give a damn" about many global situations besides Gaza, i.e. the killing of Osama Bin Laden, Netanyahu and the American Congress, Obama and the Middle-East, Wikileaks, Libya, The UN Security Council, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, racism, the military, Strauss-Khan, ex-Yugoslavia ......
Quick answer.
Everybody here seems "to give a damn" about many global situations besides Gaza, i.e. the killing of Osama Bin Laden, Netanyahu and the American Congress, Obama and the Middle-East, Wikileaks, Libya, The UN Security Council, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, racism, the military, Strauss-Khan, ex-Yugoslavia ......
No, much of the "criticism" is directed towards two countries -- the US and Israel. And there is very little else. And unfortunately, much of it is ill-informed and based upon one or two sources at the most. It does not add much to the debate.
No, much of the "criticism" is directed towards two countries -- the US and Israel. And there is very little else. And unfortunately, much of it is ill-informed and based upon one or two sources at the most. It does not add much to the debate.
I care alot about the fact that Youtube keeps banning me from seeing videos cuz of my country. I have resorted to watching a Spanish version of GLEE!
That is MY global situation.
I care alot about the fact that Youtube keeps banning me from seeing videos cuz of my country. I have resorted to watching a Spanish version of GLEE!
That is MY global situation.
No, much of the "criticism" is directed towards two countries -- the US and Israel. And there is very little else. And unfortunately, much of it is ill-informed and based upon one or two sources at the most. It does not add much to the debate.
I will also add UK.
I really appreciate your objectivity, based on facts you are the first one who blames your country as David Lawson does also the same with UK.
So far with what I have seen on the different Glocals forums, I really think for some people it is hard to be objective, I have the impression they will never admit facts which condemned or blamed their countries or their countries by hearts.
I can be wrong but for example I have never seen on the differant Glocals forums an Israelie or an Israel lover critized the Israelie Policy.
I will also add UK.
I really appreciate your objectivity, based on facts you are the first one who blames your country as David Lawson does also the same with UK.
So far with what I have seen on the different Glocals forums, I really think for some people it is hard to be objective, I have the impression they will never admit facts which condemned or blamed their countries or their countries by hearts.
I can be wrong but for example I have never seen on the differant Glocals forums an Israelie or an Israel lover critized the Israelie Policy.
Thanks, David. That's exactly the point. We'd love to hear your personal points of view on such debates. I mean - your own.
I mean, points of view that come without 'Pilg'ing, 'Fisk'ing or coming straight from the 'Hart'.
I think that way, we could build a serious debate. Some of these folks are already known for their hardline stance, making it hard for everyone else to actually discuss personal viewpoints. Their quasi-royal, sensationalist perspectives seem to often override the focus of our commoner debate.
Thanks, David. That's exactly the point. We'd love to hear your personal points of view on such debates. I mean - your own.
I mean, points of view that come without 'Pilg'ing, 'Fisk'ing or coming straight from the 'Hart'.
I think that way, we could build a serious debate. Some of these folks are already known for their hardline stance, making it hard for everyone else to actually discuss personal viewpoints. Their quasi-royal, sensationalist perspectives seem to often override the focus of our commoner debate.
Thanks, David. That's exactly the point. We'd love to hear your personal points of view on such debates. I mean - your own.
I mean, points of view that come without 'Pilg'ing, 'Fisk'ing or coming straight from the 'Hart'.
I think that way, we could build a serious debate. Some of these folks are already known for their hardline stance, making it hard for everyone else to actually discuss personal viewpoints. Their quasi-royal, sensationalist perspectives seem to often override the focus of our commoner debate.
Arun, you forgot to include Morrisey in that as well.
Cheers.
Arun, you forgot to include Morrisey in that as well.
Cheers.
Shsh. He's Indian. That makes him closer to God, enlightenment, paradise & his 72 virgins than anyone else.
Shsh. He's Indian. That makes him closer to God, enlightenment, paradise & his 72 virgins than anyone else.
Shsh. He's Indian. That makes him closer to God, enlightenment, paradise & his 72 virgins than anyone else.
Correction...71...since I think I might have deflowered one of em recently...
Anyway , back to topic.... I give a damn, but my views are mine alone, and in order to avoid being seen as more politically incorrect than i am already I keep em to myself and let others debate publically... since debate here solves nothing except the venting of views..
World peace to all...
Correction...71...since I think I might have deflowered one of em recently...
Anyway , back to topic.... I give a damn, but my views are mine alone, and in order to avoid being seen as more politically incorrect than i am already I keep em to myself and let others debate publically... since debate here solves nothing except the venting of views..
World peace to all...
Correction...71...since I think I might have deflowered one of em recently...
Anyway , back to topic.... I give a damn, but my views are mine alone, and in order to avoid being seen as more politically incorrect than i am already I keep em to myself and let others debate publically... since debate here solves nothing except the venting of views..
World peace to all...
LOL! Are you ready to give up on your 15 nano-seconds of fame; when our mega-mixed-cross-bred descendents unearth glocals.com after 20 light years, in search of the one & only ultimate truth?
LOL! Are you ready to give up on your 15 nano-seconds of fame; when our mega-mixed-cross-bred descendents unearth glocals.com after 20 light years, in search of the one & only ultimate truth?
to answer the handsome guy from Geneva ,
I think that i have not seen Moslems criticise Moslem countries
but there is chomsky and Jstreet and many others criticising Israeli policy
and on this forum i know of one person who is of Jewish origin who contributes a lot of wood to the fire...
Israel is a country where there is a spectrum of opinions which unforunately i have not seen in the neighberhood
as for criticising Israeli policy, imagine Buddhists or christians or jews deciding
that part of Mecca or Median are theirs because they lives there for some time
can you imagine how the local population would react?
I think that relativity is a good term, it is ok to criticize a policy or action
of a country but when it is so harshly criticised ignoring the circumstances
and demanding from a country what would not be demanded from anyone else that is where you got your answer
and i quite agree with you that all extremism of any religion or country
is negative which is why i think this extreme focus on Israeli policy while
ignoring historical processes and the fact that the neighbors consistantly
ignore human rights and do not stick to one peace agreement is definitely
in my opinion an exemple of extremism .
There is a saying" two jews three opinions", i hope you dont find that last
sentence racist...but Israel is a tiny country made up of refugees that is not
perfect but definitely worked hard to provide a shelter place for the refugees
but the fact is that not Europe nor the surrounding Arab lands had taken
responsibility for creating this tragic situation where jews had no place to go
and must live in a constant conflict with its neighbors because they refuse
to recognize an international decision for a jewish state.
There are plenty of people supporting the rights of arabs living in Israel
to their own political entity but not a lot support pressuring israel to give up
land in return for a better aim for the rockets , does that answer your question ?
P.S. i hope that calling you handsome does not come off as sexist but well
you do have quite an attractive profile photo that draws attention to your
body rather than your brain
please dont ban me from being allured by your charming figure
to answer the handsome guy from Geneva ,
I think that i have not seen Moslems criticise Moslem countries
but there is chomsky and Jstreet and many others criticising Israeli policy
and on this forum i know of one person who is of Jewish origin who contributes a lot of wood to the fire...
Israel is a country where there is a spectrum of opinions which unforunately i have not seen in the neighberhood
as for criticising Israeli policy, imagine Buddhists or christians or jews deciding
that part of Mecca or Median are theirs because they lives there for some time
can you imagine how the local population would react?
I think that relativity is a good term, it is ok to criticize a policy or action
of a country but when it is so harshly criticised ignoring the circumstances
and demanding from a country what would not be demanded from anyone else that is where you got your answer
and i quite agree with you that all extremism of any religion or country
is negative which is why i think this extreme focus on Israeli policy while
ignoring historical processes and the fact that the neighbors consistantly
ignore human rights and do not stick to one peace agreement is definitely
in my opinion an exemple of extremism .
There is a saying" two jews three opinions", i hope you dont find that last
sentence racist...but Israel is a tiny country made up of refugees that is not
perfect but definitely worked hard to provide a shelter place for the refugees
but the fact is that not Europe nor the surrounding Arab lands had taken
responsibility for creating this tragic situation where jews had no place to go
and must live in a constant conflict with its neighbors because they refuse
to recognize an international decision for a jewish state.
There are plenty of people supporting the rights of arabs living in Israel
to their own political entity but not a lot support pressuring israel to give up
land in return for a better aim for the rockets , does that answer your question ?
P.S. i hope that calling you handsome does not come off as sexist but well
you do have quite an attractive profile photo that draws attention to your
body rather than your brain
please dont ban me from being allured by your charming figure
charlie: ''debate here solves nothing except the venting of views'' there's wisdom in what that irish fella charlie said...
contrary little creature that i am i would point out one possible positive about not keeping one's opinions to oneself - as long as they are expressed as politely as possible and with due regard for other people's personal interpretation of reality (given that no one has access to anything other than an interpretation) - is that one can find like minds and, even better, unlike minds to chat with, which tends to make one more sensitive to that grainy subtlety of detail which often get screened out by our culturally constructed filters of perception.
charlie: ''debate here solves nothing except the venting of views'' there's wisdom in what that irish fella charlie said...
contrary little creature that i am i would point out one possible positive about not keeping one's opinions to oneself - as long as they are expressed as politely as possible and with due regard for other people's personal interpretation of reality (given that no one has access to anything other than an interpretation) - is that one can find like minds and, even better, unlike minds to chat with, which tends to make one more sensitive to that grainy subtlety of detail which often get screened out by our culturally constructed filters of perception.
i have not seen France lovers criticise strauss kahn being elected into such high office or French immigration policy or France foreign policy and how they intent on making up for the Algier tragedy and other colonist mistakes they created in the middle east and Africa
it might be that France distracts world criticism by providing too many good looking French guys on the net and romantic chansons ..but that is only my personal theory
i have not seen France lovers criticise strauss kahn being elected into such high office or French immigration policy or France foreign policy and how they intent on making up for the Algier tragedy and other colonist mistakes they created in the middle east and Africa
it might be that France distracts world criticism by providing too many good looking French guys on the net and romantic chansons ..but that is only my personal theory
charlie: ''debate here solves nothing except the venting of views'' there's wisdom in what that irish fella charlie said...
contrary little creature that i am i would point out one possible positive about not keeping one's opinions to oneself - as long as they are expressed as politely as possible and with due regard for other people's personal interpretation of reality (given that no one has access to anything other than an interpretation) - is that one can find like minds and, even better, unlike minds to chat with, which tends to make one more sensitive to that grainy subtlety of detail which often get screened out by our culturally constructed filters of perception.
I don't have your ability for diplomacy....
I did comment on religeon once... i.e that I cant prove a "non existence" of God(s), but that equally no one can prove to me an "existence" of one or other. So that conversation ended pretty quickly.
For war and murder and other bad stuff... I dont give a flying fekk if youre eastern, western, northern, or southern, or what religeon or creed you hold to... murder is bad, and never justified, no excuses.
As to politics ... the only relevance I have to that term is my "incorrectness". hence I abstain.
(I did my joke, so now will leave the stage to more sage brains than mine.)
I don't have your ability for diplomacy....
I did comment on religeon once... i.e that I cant prove a "non existence" of God(s), but that equally no one can prove to me an "existence" of one or other. So that conversation ended pretty quickly.
For war and murder and other bad stuff... I dont give a flying fekk if youre eastern, western, northern, or southern, or what religeon or creed you hold to... murder is bad, and never justified, no excuses.
As to politics ... the only relevance I have to that term is my "incorrectness". hence I abstain.
(I did my joke, so now will leave the stage to more sage brains than mine.)
i have not seen France lovers criticise strauss kahn being elected into such high office or French immigration policy or France foreign policy and how they intent on making up for the Algier tragedy and other colonist mistakes they created in the middle east and Africa
it might be that France distracts world criticism by providing too many good looking French guys on the net and romantic chansons ..but that is only my personal theory
Cher star,
Welcome back to glocal underbelly of political brouhaha, which lets us freely exercise our liberty of dispensing global low-blows.
Your personal theories based on profile pictures exude a great understanding of international harmony. Unfortunately, I'm unable to comprehend a word of it, since you've summarized your theory with restricted usage of the Enter key.
The French criticize everything. At this moment, I can see that - deep inside, they are truly unhappy that DSK ain't being tried in France, but in the US.
Les Francais go to certain depths of auto-critique that perhaps does not exist in many other cultures. I'm yet to meet another 'colonising' population, which is as ashamed of its past as the French. Still, it'd be incorrect to say that all of them subscribe to such evil, self-criticizing concepts that takes the life out of us etrangers.
To help erase such misconceptions, I highly recommend a subscription to Canal+ and/or Mediapart. Regrettably, like all the good French stuff, both are not completely free.
I have also met Muslims who criticize Muslim states, having lived in one and being surrounded by people of all faiths (& none) all the time.
The trick is - to let them criticize themselves, if you start doing it for them, they'll start defending themselves. We Indians talk about peace & act like Gandhi while outside. But we too, ridicule each other in our own languages, on the basis of race, religion, caste, culture, language, geography, food etc.
You are right, we don't have the experience of living in Israel to know how strenuous life can be, living there. Blindly criticizing Israel, while sitting on our bottoms does not make sense all the time.
That also makes me right (for a change) - you (perhaps) don't have the misfortune of being surrounded by the type, that are constantly bickering about their own country/religion. I somehow, am subjected to such torture on a daily basis...
I'd also appreciate if you could provide me some of your valuable feedback on my profile picture, its yellow-purple ball and my countrymen. Inshallah, you'll oblige.
AK74 - Duc de Ghetto-Francais
Cher star,
Welcome back to glocal underbelly of political brouhaha, which lets us freely exercise our liberty of dispensing global low-blows.
Your personal theories based on profile pictures exude a great understanding of international harmony. Unfortunately, I'm unable to comprehend a word of it, since you've summarized your theory with restricted usage of the Enter key.
The French criticize everything. At this moment, I can see that - deep inside, they are truly unhappy that DSK ain't being tried in France, but in the US.
Les Francais go to certain depths of auto-critique that perhaps does not exist in many other cultures. I'm yet to meet another 'colonising' population, which is as ashamed of its past as the French. Still, it'd be incorrect to say that all of them subscribe to such evil, self-criticizing concepts that takes the life out of us etrangers.
To help erase such misconceptions, I highly recommend a subscription to Canal+ and/or Mediapart. Regrettably, like all the good French stuff, both are not completely free.
I have also met Muslims who criticize Muslim states, having lived in one and being surrounded by people of all faiths (& none) all the time.
The trick is - to let them criticize themselves, if you start doing it for them, they'll start defending themselves. We Indians talk about peace & act like Gandhi while outside. But we too, ridicule each other in our own languages, on the basis of race, religion, caste, culture, language, geography, food etc.
You are right, we don't have the experience of living in Israel to know how strenuous life can be, living there. Blindly criticizing Israel, while sitting on our bottoms does not make sense all the time.
That also makes me right (for a change) - you (perhaps) don't have the misfortune of being surrounded by the type, that are constantly bickering about their own country/religion. I somehow, am subjected to such torture on a daily basis...
I'd also appreciate if you could provide me some of your valuable feedback on my profile picture, its yellow-purple ball and my countrymen. Inshallah, you'll oblige.
AK74 - Duc de Ghetto-Francais
to answer the handsome guy from Geneva ,
I think that i have not seen Moslems criticise Moslem countries
but there is chomsky and Jstreet and many others criticising Israeli policy
and on this forum i know of one person who is of Jewish origin who contributes a lot of wood to the fire...
Israel is a country where there is a spectrum of opinions which unforunately i have not seen in the neighberhood
as for criticising Israeli policy, imagine Buddhists or christians or jews deciding
that part of Mecca or Median are theirs because they lives there for some time
can you imagine how the local population would react?
I think that relativity is a good term, it is ok to criticize a policy or action
of a country but when it is so harshly criticised ignoring the circumstances
and demanding from a country what would not be demanded from anyone else that is where you got your answer
and i quite agree with you that all extremism of any religion or country
is negative which is why i think this extreme focus on Israeli policy while
ignoring historical processes and the fact that the neighbors consistantly
ignore human rights and do not stick to one peace agreement is definitely
in my opinion an exemple of extremism .
There is a saying" two jews three opinions", i hope you dont find that last
sentence racist...but Israel is a tiny country made up of refugees that is not
perfect but definitely worked hard to provide a shelter place for the refugees
but the fact is that not Europe nor the surrounding Arab lands had taken
responsibility for creating this tragic situation where jews had no place to go
and must live in a constant conflict with its neighbors because they refuse
to recognize an international decision for a jewish state.
There are plenty of people supporting the rights of arabs living in Israel
to their own political entity but not a lot support pressuring israel to give up
land in return for a better aim for the rockets , does that answer your question ?
P.S. i hope that calling you handsome does not come off as sexist but well
you do have quite an attractive profile photo that draws attention to your
body rather than your brain
please dont ban me from being allured by your charming figure
It is hard for a lof of French people to admit, that France has committed atrocities in Algeria and during its colonization period. Personally I am not proud at all and I have already even expressed myself clearly in the forum below that I was not proud at all about the crimes committed by country during its colonisation period:
Palestine Conference - some straight talking. How refreshing - Glocals
Btw I am French and very proud about my culture and the history of my country, however when Sarkosy decided to bombard Libya, according to him in order to help the Libyan people and we all know it is for oil purposes. I am ashamed and blamed my country to kill civilian people called casualties...
I am not sure you are able to do the same…
It is hard for a lof of French people to admit, that France has committed atrocities in Algeria and during its colonization period. Personally I am not proud at all and I have already even expressed myself clearly in the forum below that I was not proud at all about the crimes committed by country during its colonisation period:
Palestine Conference - some straight talking. How refreshing - Glocals
Btw I am French and very proud about my culture and the history of my country, however when Sarkosy decided to bombard Libya, according to him in order to help the Libyan people and we all know it is for oil purposes. I am ashamed and blamed my country to kill civilian people called casualties...
I am not sure you are able to do the same…
http://www.theonion.com/articles/god-angrily-clarifies-dont-kill-rule,222/
Ariel- quick answer: yes.
to answer the handsome guy from Geneva ,
I think that i have not seen Moslems criticise Moslem countries
but there is chomsky and Jstreet and many others criticising Israeli policy
and on this forum i know of one person who is of Jewish origin who contributes a lot of wood to the fire...
Israel is a country where there is a spectrum of opinions which unforunately i have not seen in the neighberhood
as for criticising Israeli policy, imagine Buddhists or christians or jews deciding
that part of Mecca or Median are theirs because they lives there for some time
can you imagine how the local population would react?
I think that relativity is a good term, it is ok to criticize a policy or action
of a country but when it is so harshly criticised ignoring the circumstances
and demanding from a country what would not be demanded from anyone else that is where you got your answer
and i quite agree with you that all extremism of any religion or country
is negative which is why i think this extreme focus on Israeli policy while
ignoring historical processes and the fact that the neighbors consistantly
ignore human rights and do not stick to one peace agreement is definitely
in my opinion an exemple of extremism .
There is a saying" two jews three opinions", i hope you dont find that last
sentence racist...but Israel is a tiny country made up of refugees that is not
perfect but definitely worked hard to provide a shelter place for the refugees
but the fact is that not Europe nor the surrounding Arab lands had taken
responsibility for creating this tragic situation where jews had no place to go
and must live in a constant conflict with its neighbors because they refuse
to recognize an international decision for a jewish state.
There are plenty of people supporting the rights of arabs living in Israel
to their own political entity but not a lot support pressuring israel to give up
land in return for a better aim for the rockets , does that answer your question ?
P.S. i hope that calling you handsome does not come off as sexist but well
you do have quite an attractive profile photo that draws attention to your
body rather than your brain
please dont ban me from being allured by your charming figure
Dear star,
Your post was adressed to "the handsome guy from Geneva" but I though I'll throw in a few comments.
......As for criticising Israeli policies, imagine Budisth or Christians or Jews deciding that part of Mecca of Medina was theirs because they lived there for sometime, can you imagine how the local population would react?
Precissely what Palestinians have been trying to tell the world for sixty years now. How come Jews from any country in the world have the right to "return" to Israel on the basis of having lived there 2,000 years ago and we do not have any rights in our own country?. You can very well imagine how they, the local population, would react to this.
Dear star,
Your post was adressed to "the handsome guy from Geneva" but I though I'll throw in a few comments.
......As for criticising Israeli policies, imagine Budisth or Christians or Jews deciding that part of Mecca of Medina was theirs because they lived there for sometime, can you imagine how the local population would react?
Precissely what Palestinians have been trying to tell the world for sixty years now. How come Jews from any country in the world have the right to "return" to Israel on the basis of having lived there 2,000 years ago and we do not have any rights in our own country?. You can very well imagine how they, the local population, would react to this.
Cher star,
Welcome back to glocal underbelly of political brouhaha, which lets us freely exercise our liberty of dispensing global low-blows.
Your personal theories based on profile pictures exude a great understanding of international harmony. Unfortunately, I'm unable to comprehend a word of it, since you've summarized your theory with restricted usage of the Enter key.
The French criticize everything. At this moment, I can see that - deep inside, they are truly unhappy that DSK ain't being tried in France, but in the US.
Les Francais go to certain depths of auto-critique that perhaps does not exist in many other cultures. I'm yet to meet another 'colonising' population, which is as ashamed of its past as the French. Still, it'd be incorrect to say that all of them subscribe to such evil, self-criticizing concepts that takes the life out of us etrangers.
To help erase such misconceptions, I highly recommend a subscription to Canal+ and/or Mediapart. Regrettably, like all the good French stuff, both are not completely free.
I have also met Muslims who criticize Muslim states, having lived in one and being surrounded by people of all faiths (& none) all the time.
The trick is - to let them criticize themselves, if you start doing it for them, they'll start defending themselves. We Indians talk about peace & act like Gandhi while outside. But we too, ridicule each other in our own languages, on the basis of race, religion, caste, culture, language, geography, food etc.
You are right, we don't have the experience of living in Israel to know how strenuous life can be, living there. Blindly criticizing Israel, while sitting on our bottoms does not make sense all the time.
That also makes me right (for a change) - you (perhaps) don't have the misfortune of being surrounded by the type, that are constantly bickering about their own country/religion. I somehow, am subjected to such torture on a daily basis...
I'd also appreciate if you could provide me some of your valuable feedback on my profile picture, its yellow-purple ball and my countrymen. Inshallah, you'll oblige.
AK74 - Duc de Ghetto-Francais
cher Arun
as for your profile picture
your karma ran over my dogma
as for the french , je ne sais pas , put the blame on carla Bruni
i think it works most of the time but i could be wrong as my theories are largely influenced by shallow factors of midlife crisis , i admit, the French guy has me in his spell, i am slowly converting to franchism and will soon criticise Israel and throw stones at myself and the glass house in which i live
adoring
star ( here's looking at you kid)
cher Arun
as for your profile picture
your karma ran over my dogma
as for the french , je ne sais pas , put the blame on carla Bruni
i think it works most of the time but i could be wrong as my theories are largely influenced by shallow factors of midlife crisis , i admit, the French guy has me in his spell, i am slowly converting to franchism and will soon criticise Israel and throw stones at myself and the glass house in which i live
adoring
star ( here's looking at you kid)
Dear star,
Your post was adressed to "the handsome guy from Geneva" but I though I'll throw in a few comments.
......As for criticising Israeli policies, imagine Budisth or Christians or Jews deciding that part of Mecca of Medina was theirs because they lived there for sometime, can you imagine how the local population would react?
Precissely what Palestinians have been trying to tell the world for sixty years now. How come Jews from any country in the world have the right to "return" to Israel on the basis of having lived there 2,000 years ago and we do not have any rights in our own country?. You can very well imagine how they, the local population, would react to this.
It is very obvious, but it looks like is not for some people...
It is very obvious, but it looks like is not for some people...
Dear star,
Your post was adressed to "the handsome guy from Geneva" but I though I'll throw in a few comments.
......As for criticising Israeli policies, imagine Budisth or Christians or Jews deciding that part of Mecca of Medina was theirs because they lived there for sometime, can you imagine how the local population would react?
Precissely what Palestinians have been trying to tell the world for sixty years now. How come Jews from any country in the world have the right to "return" to Israel on the basis of having lived there 2,000 years ago and we do not have any rights in our own country?. You can very well imagine how they, the local population, would react to this.
Dear Nefertiti,
The area around Mecca and Medina was populated with so called 'pageans' and jewish tribes in fact. But these were either converted to Islam or simply killed when the prophet conquered Mecca (to summarize the account).
In addition to your comment, then let's also address the around 800'000 Jews that were displaced from Arabic countries... should these also claim right to return?
For more info, you can check out the following site/articles:
http://www.justiceforjews.com/guardian_reponse.html
Dear Nefertiti,
The area around Mecca and Medina was populated with so called 'pageans' and jewish tribes in fact. But these were either converted to Islam or simply killed when the prophet conquered Mecca (to summarize the account).
In addition to your comment, then let's also address the around 800'000 Jews that were displaced from Arabic countries... should these also claim right to return?
For more info, you can check out the following site/articles:
http://www.justiceforjews.com/guardian_reponse.html
Dear Nefertiti,
The area around Mecca and Medina was populated with so called 'pageans' and jewish tribes in fact. But these were either converted to Islam or simply killed when the prophet conquered Mecca (to summarize the account).
In addition to your comment, then let's also address the around 800'000 Jews that were displaced from Arabic countries... should these also claim right to return?
For more info, you can check out the following site/articles:
http://www.justiceforjews.com/guardian_reponse.html
Dear Sarah,
My point was very obvious and it was a reply to an imaginary situation outlined by Star (I am not sure you have read her quote). As far as I can recall there were no Budists in the area around Mecca and Medina, were they?
I do not see your comment as an addition to mine but as an imaginary situtation for which I have no answer, do you?
The Law of Return is a reality that allows Jews from any country in the world to emigrate to Israel. In many cases, new immigrants simply move to the occuppied West Bank because housing is cheaper there..
I can recall a statement by a group of British Jews a few years ago in which they renounced to their "right of return" because they thought it was detrimental for the local Palestinian population. I could find the link if you are interested to know more about it.
Dear Sarah,
My point was very obvious and it was a reply to an imaginary situation outlined by Star (I am not sure you have read her quote). As far as I can recall there were no Budists in the area around Mecca and Medina, were they?
I do not see your comment as an addition to mine but as an imaginary situtation for which I have no answer, do you?
The Law of Return is a reality that allows Jews from any country in the world to emigrate to Israel. In many cases, new immigrants simply move to the occuppied West Bank because housing is cheaper there..
I can recall a statement by a group of British Jews a few years ago in which they renounced to their "right of return" because they thought it was detrimental for the local Palestinian population. I could find the link if you are interested to know more about it.
Dear Nefertiti,
The area around Mecca and Medina was populated with so called 'pageans' and jewish tribes in fact. But these were either converted to Islam or simply killed when the prophet conquered Mecca (to summarize the account).
In addition to your comment, then let's also address the around 800'000 Jews that were displaced from Arabic countries... should these also claim right to return?
For more info, you can check out the following site/articles:
http://www.justiceforjews.com/guardian_reponse.html
Very classical, first we demonize the Arab and Muslim people, by saying they have killed and they have done atrocities…, secondly we explain we are the good people.
For your information ALL RELIGIONS have a dark past, people have been forced to convert to survive and some have been KILLED.
The most shameful drama in the human history had been done by Europeans; it is a fact and we all responsible of this…
As far as I know they were no problems between Jews from Arabic countries before the Israel creation. For example the Sephardi Jews have been persecuted by CHRISTIANS in the late 15th century and they found security in North Africa, Turkey (MUSLIM LAND) and all others Mediterranean countries.
I am for the 800 000 Jews displaced from Arabic countries have the right to return as much as the 700 000 Palestinians refugees has the right to return.
Very classical, first we demonize the Arab and Muslim people, by saying they have killed and they have done atrocities…, secondly we explain we are the good people.
For your information ALL RELIGIONS have a dark past, people have been forced to convert to survive and some have been KILLED.
The most shameful drama in the human history had been done by Europeans; it is a fact and we all responsible of this…
As far as I know they were no problems between Jews from Arabic countries before the Israel creation. For example the Sephardi Jews have been persecuted by CHRISTIANS in the late 15th century and they found security in North Africa, Turkey (MUSLIM LAND) and all others Mediterranean countries.
I am for the 800 000 Jews displaced from Arabic countries have the right to return as much as the 700 000 Palestinians refugees has the right to return.
Dear Sarah,
My point was very obvious and it was a reply to an imaginary situation outlined by Star (I am not sure you have read her quote). As far as I can recall there were no Budists in the area around Mecca and Medina, were they?
I do not see your comment as an addition to mine but as an imaginary situtation for which I have no answer, do you?
The Law of Return is a reality that allows Jews from any country in the world to emigrate to Israel. In many cases, new immigrants simply move to the occuppied West Bank because housing is cheaper there..
I can recall a statement by a group of British Jews a few years ago in which they renounced to their "right of return" because they thought it was detrimental for the local Palestinian population. I could find the link if you are interested to know more about it.
hi
just to explain, the theoratical situation i had given was to explain how
a religious jew sees the settlement situation, the religious jew thinks that
the land of Israel is as holy as mecca and Medina is to the Moslems
so you can understand how emotional this situation is
the religious jews going to settle in the territories see that as part of the holy
land that can not be separated just as mecca and medina has never been
divided..
If you see it from their point of view perhaps you can see that everyone
has their particular point of view.
I think it is important to understand that people have different ways of seeing
a given situation and posting only ONE way of seeing reality i think would
not do justice to how complex the situation is nor should we offer one way
and dismiss any other person's opinion however when this net is bombarded
with constant posts criticising israel i do think there is a need to realize
other people have their views and presenting ONE side as violent intolerant
and unwilling to compromise does not present the reality which is made up
of several intolerant people unwilling to compromise
the bottom line is like PM Nethanyu says
"If the palestinians had put down their weapons there would be peace
had Israel put down their weapons there would be no Israel"
The ruling party of the palestinians has declared clear intentions of not
tolerating a jewish existence in the form of the state of Israel
as long as that is the reality there is no need to criticise Israel
and i do believe that many people posting on this forum agree with
the idea that the state of Israel is something that never should have existed
in the first place
how do you agree your right to exist as a country when people are intolerant
to understanding the spectrum and insist on bringing provacative material ?
I feel that i can never convince anyone nor have them see any other point
of view because they refuse to see any other point of view but reality is
dear Nefertiti is more than poor palestinians and viicious occupying jews
the reality is that everyone wants a piece of the cake
and who should get it ?
sharing would be nice but blaming Israel consistantly and ignoring the other
side's refusal to recognize Israel is not going to get anyone enlightened
just barking the same vicious agenda which i am really tired of
but insist on playing along because someone has to do the job
and the majority (in this case this forum) is not right simply because others cant be bothered to answer them
have a good day, i have to go and have a life too
hi
just to explain, the theoratical situation i had given was to explain how
a religious jew sees the settlement situation, the religious jew thinks that
the land of Israel is as holy as mecca and Medina is to the Moslems
so you can understand how emotional this situation is
the religious jews going to settle in the territories see that as part of the holy
land that can not be separated just as mecca and medina has never been
divided..
If you see it from their point of view perhaps you can see that everyone
has their particular point of view.
I think it is important to understand that people have different ways of seeing
a given situation and posting only ONE way of seeing reality i think would
not do justice to how complex the situation is nor should we offer one way
and dismiss any other person's opinion however when this net is bombarded
with constant posts criticising israel i do think there is a need to realize
other people have their views and presenting ONE side as violent intolerant
and unwilling to compromise does not present the reality which is made up
of several intolerant people unwilling to compromise
the bottom line is like PM Nethanyu says
"If the palestinians had put down their weapons there would be peace
had Israel put down their weapons there would be no Israel"
The ruling party of the palestinians has declared clear intentions of not
tolerating a jewish existence in the form of the state of Israel
as long as that is the reality there is no need to criticise Israel
and i do believe that many people posting on this forum agree with
the idea that the state of Israel is something that never should have existed
in the first place
how do you agree your right to exist as a country when people are intolerant
to understanding the spectrum and insist on bringing provacative material ?
I feel that i can never convince anyone nor have them see any other point
of view because they refuse to see any other point of view but reality is
dear Nefertiti is more than poor palestinians and viicious occupying jews
the reality is that everyone wants a piece of the cake
and who should get it ?
sharing would be nice but blaming Israel consistantly and ignoring the other
side's refusal to recognize Israel is not going to get anyone enlightened
just barking the same vicious agenda which i am really tired of
but insist on playing along because someone has to do the job
and the majority (in this case this forum) is not right simply because others cant be bothered to answer them
have a good day, i have to go and have a life too
hi
just to explain, the theoratical situation i had given was to explain how
a religious jew sees the settlement situation, the religious jew thinks that
the land of Israel is as holy as mecca and Medina is to the Moslems
so you can understand how emotional this situation is
the religious jews going to settle in the territories see that as part of the holy
land that can not be separated just as mecca and medina has never been
divided..
If you see it from their point of view perhaps you can see that everyone
has their particular point of view.
I think it is important to understand that people have different ways of seeing
a given situation and posting only ONE way of seeing reality i think would
not do justice to how complex the situation is nor should we offer one way
and dismiss any other person's opinion however when this net is bombarded
with constant posts criticising israel i do think there is a need to realize
other people have their views and presenting ONE side as violent intolerant
and unwilling to compromise does not present the reality which is made up
of several intolerant people unwilling to compromise
the bottom line is like PM Nethanyu says
"If the palestinians had put down their weapons there would be peace
had Israel put down their weapons there would be no Israel"
The ruling party of the palestinians has declared clear intentions of not
tolerating a jewish existence in the form of the state of Israel
as long as that is the reality there is no need to criticise Israel
and i do believe that many people posting on this forum agree with
the idea that the state of Israel is something that never should have existed
in the first place
how do you agree your right to exist as a country when people are intolerant
to understanding the spectrum and insist on bringing provacative material ?
I feel that i can never convince anyone nor have them see any other point
of view because they refuse to see any other point of view but reality is
dear Nefertiti is more than poor palestinians and viicious occupying jews
the reality is that everyone wants a piece of the cake
and who should get it ?
sharing would be nice but blaming Israel consistantly and ignoring the other
side's refusal to recognize Israel is not going to get anyone enlightened
just barking the same vicious agenda which i am really tired of
but insist on playing along because someone has to do the job
and the majority (in this case this forum) is not right simply because others cant be bothered to answer them
have a good day, i have to go and have a life too
I understand for the Jews, Israel is the holy land, it is also a holy land for Christians and Muslims. I am for Israel living in peace with the Palestinians. I am concerned about human rights and people are dying.
I don’t understand the Israeli policy they put the responsibility to the Palestinians, however according to the facts below, it looks like they are suffering more about the conflicts.
124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,452 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.
Source: Remember These Children, a coalition of groups calling for an end to the killing of children and a fair resolution of the conflict. (View the complete list of the victims, which was last updated on September 7, 2010.
At least 6,430 Palestinians and 1,084 Israelis
have been killed since September 29, 2000.
Source: B'Tselem, The Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories. (Visit their statistics page, last updated Oct. 31, 2010.)
The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.2 million each day* in military aid and is giving the Palestinians $0** in military aid during Fiscal Year 2011.
The source for US military aid to Israel during Fiscal Year 2011 is the Congressional Research Service’s “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs, updated September 16, 2010. According to this report, the Obama Administration requested $3 billion in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) for Israel for the fiscal year 2011.
Israel is the target of at least 65 UN Resolutions and the Palestinians are the target of none.
Source: Paul Findley’s Deliberate Deceptions (1998, pages 192-4). This number only covers resolUN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992.
1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 5,935 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.
Source: Addameer Prisoners’ Support and Human Rights Association (as of January 1, 2011)
0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 24,813 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967.
Statistics Source: The Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions estimates that 24,813 houses have been demolished in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza since 1967 (as of July 28, 2010). (Read ICAHD's latest analysis of demolished homes and view relevant maps.)
I understand for the Jews, Israel is the holy land, it is also a holy land for Christians and Muslims. I am for Israel living in peace with the Palestinians. I am concerned about human rights and people are dying.
I don’t understand the Israeli policy they put the responsibility to the Palestinians, however according to the facts below, it looks like they are suffering more about the conflicts.
124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,452 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.
Source: Remember These Children, a coalition of groups calling for an end to the killing of children and a fair resolution of the conflict. (View the complete list of the victims, which was last updated on September 7, 2010.
At least 6,430 Palestinians and 1,084 Israelis
have been killed since September 29, 2000.
Source: B'Tselem, The Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories. (Visit their statistics page, last updated Oct. 31, 2010.)
The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.2 million each day* in military aid and is giving the Palestinians $0** in military aid during Fiscal Year 2011.
The source for US military aid to Israel during Fiscal Year 2011 is the Congressional Research Service’s “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs, updated September 16, 2010. According to this report, the Obama Administration requested $3 billion in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) for Israel for the fiscal year 2011.
Israel is the target of at least 65 UN Resolutions and the Palestinians are the target of none.
Source: Paul Findley’s Deliberate Deceptions (1998, pages 192-4). This number only covers resolUN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992.
1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 5,935 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.
Source: Addameer Prisoners’ Support and Human Rights Association (as of January 1, 2011)
0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 24,813 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967.
Statistics Source: The Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions estimates that 24,813 houses have been demolished in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza since 1967 (as of July 28, 2010). (Read ICAHD's latest analysis of demolished homes and view relevant maps.)
Dear Nefertiti,
The area around Mecca and Medina was populated with so called 'pageans' and jewish tribes in fact. But these were either converted to Islam or simply killed when the prophet conquered Mecca (to summarize the account).
In addition to your comment, then let's also address the around 800'000 Jews that were displaced from Arabic countries... should these also claim right to return?
For more info, you can check out the following site/articles:
http://www.justiceforjews.com/guardian_reponse.html
Sarah regarding reconversion have you heard about the Sabbateans? I found this community interestind and it might interests you too.
It is a group of crypto-Jews in the Ottoman Empire and present-day Turkey who openly affiliated with Islam and secretly practiced a form of Judaism.
it refers to a variety of followers of, disciples and believers in Sabbatai Zevi (1626–1676), a Jewish rabbi, who has been forced to convert to islam by the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed IV.
After Zevi's conversion, a number of Jews followed him into Islam and became the Dönmeh.
Nowadays the Donmeh are very present in the turkish politic as the two former minister of foreign affairs as İsmail Cem and Coşkun Kırca in 1995, both of them helped Turkey to have to good relation with Israel.
Sarah regarding reconversion have you heard about the Sabbateans? I found this community interestind and it might interests you too.
It is a group of crypto-Jews in the Ottoman Empire and present-day Turkey who openly affiliated with Islam and secretly practiced a form of Judaism.
it refers to a variety of followers of, disciples and believers in Sabbatai Zevi (1626–1676), a Jewish rabbi, who has been forced to convert to islam by the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed IV.
After Zevi's conversion, a number of Jews followed him into Islam and became the Dönmeh.
Nowadays the Donmeh are very present in the turkish politic as the two former minister of foreign affairs as İsmail Cem and Coşkun Kırca in 1995, both of them helped Turkey to have to good relation with Israel.
Sarah regarding reconversion have you heard about the Sabbateans? I found this community interestind and it might interests you too.
It is a group of crypto-Jews in the Ottoman Empire and present-day Turkey who openly affiliated with Islam and secretly practiced a form of Judaism.
it refers to a variety of followers of, disciples and believers in Sabbatai Zevi (1626–1676), a Jewish rabbi, who has been forced to convert to islam by the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed IV.
After Zevi's conversion, a number of Jews followed him into Islam and became the Dönmeh.
Nowadays the Donmeh are very present in the turkish politic as the two former minister of foreign affairs as İsmail Cem and Coşkun Kırca in 1995, both of them helped Turkey to have to good relation with Israel.
Hi Felipe,
For the comment 'demonizing' on earlier post - I think you are unfair, I was just trying to bring some historical information, that's all. I know perfectly that most religions have very dark backgrounds and I am appalled at what Christianity has done, no worries - I could post more on this but would be out of context on this thread.
Thanks for the Sabbateans info - I did not know and yes it sounds interesting, will look into that.
Regards,
Hi Felipe,
For the comment 'demonizing' on earlier post - I think you are unfair, I was just trying to bring some historical information, that's all. I know perfectly that most religions have very dark backgrounds and I am appalled at what Christianity has done, no worries - I could post more on this but would be out of context on this thread.
Thanks for the Sabbateans info - I did not know and yes it sounds interesting, will look into that.
Regards,
Dear Breshna,
I do not see anything disrespectul in the way Sarah referred to your Prophet when she gave some historical facts about Mohammed conquering Mecca.
Can you please elaborate on this?
thanks
Dear Breshna,
I do not see anything disrespectul in the way Sarah referred to your Prophet when she gave some historical facts about Mohammed conquering Mecca.
Can you please elaborate on this?
thanks
Breshna, that is a racist post.
Thank you Breshna.
Dear Breshna,
First of all my apologies for my blatant comment. To me the bit........"Israel would banish" sounded racist but I did not really understand your sentence. I should have asked you first to explain the meaning of it.
Now that you explain this was reply to a quote by Star, I leave it to you two to elaborate because I fail to understand both your point regarding Mecca and Medina.
In good faith.
Dear Breshna,
First of all my apologies for my blatant comment. To me the bit........"Israel would banish" sounded racist but I did not really understand your sentence. I should have asked you first to explain the meaning of it.
Now that you explain this was reply to a quote by Star, I leave it to you two to elaborate because I fail to understand both your point regarding Mecca and Medina.
In good faith.
Dear Breshna,
First of all my apologies for my blatant comment. To me the bit........"Israel would banish" sounded racist but I did not really understand your sentence. I should have asked you first to explain the meaning of it.
Now that you explain this was reply to a quote by Star, I leave it to you two to elaborate because I fail to understand both your point regarding Mecca and Medina.
In good faith.
A spelling mistake! Quelle horreur!! Of course I meant "vanish"
Dear Breshna
Please explain to me in a personal message as this is the last post i place in this thread how is it for you because i really dont understand how you could have misunderstood my words.
I only wrote that religious jews see the land of Israel as holy just as the Moslems see Mecca and Medina as holy , which is absolutly their right
Furthermore in another thread i wrote a Dutch person criticising Israel about the Dutch racist politician who was invited by SVP to Geneva, a visit which has been cancelled.
You are absolutly calling racist to the wrong person, and i wonder is it because i failed to explain myself in a clear enough way or is it because i am from Israel.
I see you are from Afganistan, i have read books by the writer Husseni and i am very sad for what had happened to your country and to women there and it did open me up to a new world. I hope you dont dislike this writer who had taken a brave stand against totalitarian regime .
I think you should apologize to me for this un necessary attack and i also think the Isrealis running this net should not send me out there
While i am here for the last time let me correct a bit of the tons of ignorance exposed here:
1973 was a war that began on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calender, it was a surprise attack on Israel and Israel did not lose Sinai in war but gave sinai back to Egypt in a peace agreement signed in 1982 with the late Egyptian president Sadat, may he rest in peace, murdered by fanatics anti peace people of his country.
I think you jump at every word i write but you must understand i am just telling how the religious jews see it, i myself do not find anything holy in anyone but life , life is holy and any loss of life is a tragedy. I would only wish that those syrians murdered by the scores by their regime would get half as much exposure and that your country also manages to fight fanatic forces so that people can finally live in peace.
Blaming another country or people blindly will get you no where
"An eye for an eye makes everyone blind" Ghandi said
If i had expressed myself in any way that may have appeared that i attack Moslems that is absolutly not what i had meant, perhaps like you i felt attacked and became a bit emotional but lets give people the benefit of the doubt. I have nothing but respect for other people^s cultures and traditions and you must not read into my words just because i am an Israeli , i was explaining a position that is all, and if it were mine, i think it would still be alright , because everyone has a right to their opinion as long as they dont hurt anyone. I am surprised that due to your country's violent past and present situation you focus on Israel at all, i would think you have enough work to do to help your people .
And no, religion has nothing to do with politics or war , but if it makes people blindly hate others, you wonder what is the point? any religion can be interpreted and understood in different ways.
respectfully yours
for the very last time
adieu masaalam namaste shalom
Dear Breshna
Please explain to me in a personal message as this is the last post i place in this thread how is it for you because i really dont understand how you could have misunderstood my words.
I only wrote that religious jews see the land of Israel as holy just as the Moslems see Mecca and Medina as holy , which is absolutly their right
Furthermore in another thread i wrote a Dutch person criticising Israel about the Dutch racist politician who was invited by SVP to Geneva, a visit which has been cancelled.
You are absolutly calling racist to the wrong person, and i wonder is it because i failed to explain myself in a clear enough way or is it because i am from Israel.
I see you are from Afganistan, i have read books by the writer Husseni and i am very sad for what had happened to your country and to women there and it did open me up to a new world. I hope you dont dislike this writer who had taken a brave stand against totalitarian regime .
I think you should apologize to me for this un necessary attack and i also think the Isrealis running this net should not send me out there
While i am here for the last time let me correct a bit of the tons of ignorance exposed here:
1973 was a war that began on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calender, it was a surprise attack on Israel and Israel did not lose Sinai in war but gave sinai back to Egypt in a peace agreement signed in 1982 with the late Egyptian president Sadat, may he rest in peace, murdered by fanatics anti peace people of his country.
I think you jump at every word i write but you must understand i am just telling how the religious jews see it, i myself do not find anything holy in anyone but life , life is holy and any loss of life is a tragedy. I would only wish that those syrians murdered by the scores by their regime would get half as much exposure and that your country also manages to fight fanatic forces so that people can finally live in peace.
Blaming another country or people blindly will get you no where
"An eye for an eye makes everyone blind" Ghandi said
If i had expressed myself in any way that may have appeared that i attack Moslems that is absolutly not what i had meant, perhaps like you i felt attacked and became a bit emotional but lets give people the benefit of the doubt. I have nothing but respect for other people^s cultures and traditions and you must not read into my words just because i am an Israeli , i was explaining a position that is all, and if it were mine, i think it would still be alright , because everyone has a right to their opinion as long as they dont hurt anyone. I am surprised that due to your country's violent past and present situation you focus on Israel at all, i would think you have enough work to do to help your people .
And no, religion has nothing to do with politics or war , but if it makes people blindly hate others, you wonder what is the point? any religion can be interpreted and understood in different ways.
respectfully yours
for the very last time
adieu masaalam namaste shalom
Dear Breshna,
I am sorry that you feel so hurt by my post but I will certainly not apologize for it. I do not feel I insulted Islam, in particular I only referred to what is already well documented on many sites, books, etc.
Here more reference for what I alluded to previously, so that you know I am not making this up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_the_Banu_Qurayza
The Open University, Walton Hall, Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA, Copyright 1997 The Open University, Prepared for the course team by Kenneth Cragg 'Islam':
p.17: Thus it was that the Jews of Khaibar, a large settlement many leagues from Medina fell under Muhammad's ban and had their property confiscated. The darkest event of all was the violent massacre of the Banu Quraizah, which the earliest historians of Islam narrate without demur. Modern writers prefer to observe quite truly, that its cruelty contrasted sharply with the generous magnanimity with which Muhammad treated Mecca when it finally surrended.'
On the question why Islam and Israel, and apart from the fact that Israel is surrounded with islamic countries and that there are many muslim israelis - well, maybe you want to check out one the below, said by one muslim himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fic15V8ChE
With regards to your reaction, I do find peculiar I must say that many subjects have been discussed on this site and quite vehemently many times but that you feel Islam has been insulted in this particular case.
Regards,
Sarah
Dear Breshna,
I am sorry that you feel so hurt by my post but I will certainly not apologize for it. I do not feel I insulted Islam, in particular I only referred to what is already well documented on many sites, books, etc.
Here more reference for what I alluded to previously, so that you know I am not making this up:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_the_Banu_Qurayza
The Open University, Walton Hall, Milton Keynes, MK7 6AA, Copyright 1997 The Open University, Prepared for the course team by Kenneth Cragg 'Islam':
p.17: Thus it was that the Jews of Khaibar, a large settlement many leagues from Medina fell under Muhammad's ban and had their property confiscated. The darkest event of all was the violent massacre of the Banu Quraizah, which the earliest historians of Islam narrate without demur. Modern writers prefer to observe quite truly, that its cruelty contrasted sharply with the generous magnanimity with which Muhammad treated Mecca when it finally surrended.'
On the question why Islam and Israel, and apart from the fact that Israel is surrounded with islamic countries and that there are many muslim israelis - well, maybe you want to check out one the below, said by one muslim himself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Fic15V8ChE
With regards to your reaction, I do find peculiar I must say that many subjects have been discussed on this site and quite vehemently many times but that you feel Islam has been insulted in this particular case.
Regards,
Sarah
How did we get here? This thread started with an agressive question by Ariel (who's been silent ever since) and we end up angry, frustrated and fighthing among each other.
Well, personally, I prefer to look at the glass as half full and I am going to tell you a story (at the risk of sounding patronizing and a bit superior).
There's a small West Bank village called Nabi-Elias which is only a km away from Israel. A settlement overlooks the village and has taken a considerable chunk of the villager's land. The road that cuts-in the village is a busy one, It connects Israel to some of the settlements and it is of course also the road used by Palestinians to circulate within the West Bank. Shatha runs a pharmacy there and deals equally with Palestinian and Israeli customers on a daily basis. On my last visit there I had a discussion with an elderly Israeli customer who'd been through every possible war. He told me his only wish was to wake up one day to a country in peace and where both people were sharing the land.
Star, if your are interested, I could give you Shata's phone number so that you two could exchange opinions. You gave me the idea when you suggested this to the Dutch guy (sorry, I do not remember your name) in relation to your friend who survived WW2.
These threads about Israel-Palestine do not seem to lead us anywhere and I''ll keep away from them from now on. But at the same time it has been interesting discussing with all of you.
Hasta la vista!!
How did we get here? This thread started with an agressive question by Ariel (who's been silent ever since) and we end up angry, frustrated and fighthing among each other.
Well, personally, I prefer to look at the glass as half full and I am going to tell you a story (at the risk of sounding patronizing and a bit superior).
There's a small West Bank village called Nabi-Elias which is only a km away from Israel. A settlement overlooks the village and has taken a considerable chunk of the villager's land. The road that cuts-in the village is a busy one, It connects Israel to some of the settlements and it is of course also the road used by Palestinians to circulate within the West Bank. Shatha runs a pharmacy there and deals equally with Palestinian and Israeli customers on a daily basis. On my last visit there I had a discussion with an elderly Israeli customer who'd been through every possible war. He told me his only wish was to wake up one day to a country in peace and where both people were sharing the land.
Star, if your are interested, I could give you Shata's phone number so that you two could exchange opinions. You gave me the idea when you suggested this to the Dutch guy (sorry, I do not remember your name) in relation to your friend who survived WW2.
These threads about Israel-Palestine do not seem to lead us anywhere and I''ll keep away from them from now on. But at the same time it has been interesting discussing with all of you.
Hasta la vista!!
(AK's Thought Bubble)
I wish someone would take some pot-shots of the religion into which, I was born (by default). It'd provide me some opportunity to at least help some folks understand that in essence it's all the same thing!
Everyone wants peace, but no one wants to understand that it canNOT come from quoting history blindly, believing facts are only - where WE choose to look.
History is full of idiots who found nonsensical reasons to make war. With dimwits among them, who thought peace was still possible & thus created religion, nations, laws, etc. Which the idiots took to make more war - against which the dimwits kept creating more Gods. We now have as many Gods (we've started to make temples for cinema actresses) as humans in my country and the Tigers are complaining.
AK's Conclusion: It doesn't matter which religion you belong to - you're either an idiot or a dimwit.
As for me - I'm both.
(AK's Thought Bubble will self destruct in 5 seconds)
So where were we? Necessity mothered invention...or something like that, right?
(AK's Thought Bubble)
I wish someone would take some pot-shots of the religion into which, I was born (by default). It'd provide me some opportunity to at least help some folks understand that in essence it's all the same thing!
Everyone wants peace, but no one wants to understand that it canNOT come from quoting history blindly, believing facts are only - where WE choose to look.
History is full of idiots who found nonsensical reasons to make war. With dimwits among them, who thought peace was still possible & thus created religion, nations, laws, etc. Which the idiots took to make more war - against which the dimwits kept creating more Gods. We now have as many Gods (we've started to make temples for cinema actresses) as humans in my country and the Tigers are complaining.
AK's Conclusion: It doesn't matter which religion you belong to - you're either an idiot or a dimwit.
As for me - I'm both.
(AK's Thought Bubble will self destruct in 5 seconds)
So where were we? Necessity mothered invention...or something like that, right?
Me, I'm with the Tigers...like Katt Williams
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/jun/08/east-jerusalem-israel-palestine-interactive
Four Palestinians and two Israelis used cameras provided by the Guardian and B'Tselem human rights organisation to record video diaries about their lives and experiences in East Jerusalem
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/jun/08/east-jerusalem-israel-palestine-interactive
Four Palestinians and two Israelis used cameras provided by the Guardian and B'Tselem human rights organisation to record video diaries about their lives and experiences in East Jerusalem
Cynthia McKinney "Former US Congresswoman and former presidential candidate for Green Party" interviewed on Press TV on Sat, 21 May 2011 before the AIPAC conference said:
"Every Incoming Member of Congress Must Sign Pledge of Allegiance to Israel"
"If you don't sign the pledge, you don't get money for your campaign"
Do you think it is true?
Cynthia McKinney "Former US Congresswoman and former presidential candidate for Green Party" interviewed on Press TV on Sat, 21 May 2011 before the AIPAC conference said:
"Every Incoming Member of Congress Must Sign Pledge of Allegiance to Israel"
"If you don't sign the pledge, you don't get money for your campaign"
Do you think it is true?
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/181233.html
@Trancelator: How typically American. Reading our thought bubbles, stealing our cartoons, truncating Apu's family name & selling him back to us, wrapped in banana leaves.
I like this guy Mearsheimer - it couldn't be folks with backbones, who put (a) man on the moon. That too such (a) man who, succumbing to lesser gravity, swallowed the most open vowel/syllable, which comes first in most languages.
@Trancelator: How typically American. Reading our thought bubbles, stealing our cartoons, truncating Apu's family name & selling him back to us, wrapped in banana leaves.
I like this guy Mearsheimer - it couldn't be folks with backbones, who put (a) man on the moon. That too such (a) man who, succumbing to lesser gravity, swallowed the most open vowel/syllable, which comes first in most languages.
Silent, but not absent. I was merely waiting to see if anyone would say, 'Yes, for example, I find this international affair to also be worthy of discussion. Lets talk about it.'
Seeing as how that hasn't happened, and the usual anti-Israel rhetoric has been even more disgusting than usual, I retire. Enjoy the bickering.
Silent, but not absent. I was merely waiting to see if anyone would say, 'Yes, for example, I find this international affair to also be worthy of discussion. Lets talk about it.'
Seeing as how that hasn't happened, and the usual anti-Israel rhetoric has been even more disgusting than usual, I retire. Enjoy the bickering.
Yep, no double standards here. Not aimed at your Breshna, but it'd be nice to see some of this righteous rage put to the defense of Jew and Israelis.
Ah right, I forgot, not a single person here is even slightly anti-Semitic. Its just those pesky Israelis y'all can't stand.
Yep, no double standards here. Not aimed at your Breshna, but it'd be nice to see some of this righteous rage put to the defense of Jew and Israelis.
Ah right, I forgot, not a single person here is even slightly anti-Semitic. Its just those pesky Israelis y'all can't stand.
Yep, no double standards here. Not aimed at your Breshna, but it'd be nice to see some of this righteous rage put to the defense of Jew and Israelis.
Ah right, I forgot, not a single person here is even slightly anti-Semitic. Its just those pesky Israelis y'all can't stand.
What do you mean by "not a single person here is even slightly anti-Semitic"?
What do you mean by "not a single person here is even slightly anti-Semitic"?
A more balanced and interesting discussion on the issue could include the following issues:
1) The differences between Fatah and Hamas, the importance of long-term corruption in Palestinian Authority under Arafat and the role it played in the rise of Hamas:
The first attempt at cultivating an Arafat alternative under the rubric of the international Quartet’s “Roadmap for Peace” effort in 2003 was to transfer several of Arafat’s powers to Mahmoud Abbas as PA Prime Minister. Although an Arafat associate, Abbas had a reputation as an advocate for a negotiated peace with Israel, and was critical of the Palestinian turn to violence during the second intifada. The U.S. and international attempt to empower Abbas, however, proved abortive, as Arafat would not relinquish control over key PA security and financial power centers, and Abbas resigned in frustration in October 2003 after only six months in office.
Following Arafat’s death in November 2004, Mahmoud Abbas was elected PA president in January 2005. However, polling data between 1996 and 2004 showed a significant drop in support for Fatah against a backdrop of widespread political alienation. Most observers believe Fatah’s decline was due to the public’s perception that the PA was rife with corruption, out of touch with the populace, and had failed to achieve progress toward statehood or provide law and order.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/R41514.pdf
Hamas : Background and Issues for Congress, US Congressional Research Service, December 2, 2010
2) Who are Hamas and what are their goals?
No Palestinian movement has benefitted more from, or contributed more to, Fatah’s weakening than Hamas, which is an Arabic acronym for the “Islamic Resistance Movement.” Hamas, for many years the main opposition force in the Palestinian territories, grew out of the Muslim Brotherhood, a religious and political organization founded in Egypt in 1928 with branches throughout the Arab world. Since Hamas’s inception, it has maintained its primary base of support and particularly strong influence in the Gaza Strip, even though its top leadership is headquartered in exile in Damascus, Syria.
Hamas combines Palestinian nationalism with Islamic fundamentalism. Its founding charter commits the group to the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic state in all of historic Palestine.
Written in 1988, Hamas’s charter is explicit about the struggle for Palestine being a religious obligation. It describes the land as a waqf, or religious endowment, saying that no one can “abandon it or part of it.” In the charter, Hamas describes itself as “a distinct Palestinian Movement which owes its loyalty to Allah” and that strives to “raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.” It calls for the elimination of Israel and Jews from Islamic holy land and portrays the Jews in decidedly negative terms, citing anti-Semitic texts. Some observers also note that no Hamas leader is on record as sanctioning a permanent recognition of Israel’s right to exist side by side with an independent Palestinian state or as expressing a willingness to disarm or to stop attacks on Israel and Israelis.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL34074.pdf
The Palestinians: Background and U.S. Relations, US Congressional Research Service, January 8, 2010
A more balanced and interesting discussion on the issue could include the following issues:
1) The differences between Fatah and Hamas, the importance of long-term corruption in Palestinian Authority under Arafat and the role it played in the rise of Hamas:
The first attempt at cultivating an Arafat alternative under the rubric of the international Quartet’s “Roadmap for Peace” effort in 2003 was to transfer several of Arafat’s powers to Mahmoud Abbas as PA Prime Minister. Although an Arafat associate, Abbas had a reputation as an advocate for a negotiated peace with Israel, and was critical of the Palestinian turn to violence during the second intifada. The U.S. and international attempt to empower Abbas, however, proved abortive, as Arafat would not relinquish control over key PA security and financial power centers, and Abbas resigned in frustration in October 2003 after only six months in office.
Following Arafat’s death in November 2004, Mahmoud Abbas was elected PA president in January 2005. However, polling data between 1996 and 2004 showed a significant drop in support for Fatah against a backdrop of widespread political alienation. Most observers believe Fatah’s decline was due to the public’s perception that the PA was rife with corruption, out of touch with the populace, and had failed to achieve progress toward statehood or provide law and order.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/R41514.pdf
Hamas : Background and Issues for Congress, US Congressional Research Service, December 2, 2010
2) Who are Hamas and what are their goals?
No Palestinian movement has benefitted more from, or contributed more to, Fatah’s weakening than Hamas, which is an Arabic acronym for the “Islamic Resistance Movement.” Hamas, for many years the main opposition force in the Palestinian territories, grew out of the Muslim Brotherhood, a religious and political organization founded in Egypt in 1928 with branches throughout the Arab world. Since Hamas’s inception, it has maintained its primary base of support and particularly strong influence in the Gaza Strip, even though its top leadership is headquartered in exile in Damascus, Syria.
Hamas combines Palestinian nationalism with Islamic fundamentalism. Its founding charter commits the group to the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamic state in all of historic Palestine.
Written in 1988, Hamas’s charter is explicit about the struggle for Palestine being a religious obligation. It describes the land as a waqf, or religious endowment, saying that no one can “abandon it or part of it.” In the charter, Hamas describes itself as “a distinct Palestinian Movement which owes its loyalty to Allah” and that strives to “raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.” It calls for the elimination of Israel and Jews from Islamic holy land and portrays the Jews in decidedly negative terms, citing anti-Semitic texts. Some observers also note that no Hamas leader is on record as sanctioning a permanent recognition of Israel’s right to exist side by side with an independent Palestinian state or as expressing a willingness to disarm or to stop attacks on Israel and Israelis.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL34074.pdf
The Palestinians: Background and U.S. Relations, US Congressional Research Service, January 8, 2010
Another issue to take up might be to question why other Arab nations don't provide more funding for Palestinians through UNWRA:
"The United States is the largest single-state donor to UNRWA, which provides food, shelter, medical care, and education for many of the original refugees from the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and their descendants—now comprising approximately 4.8 million Palestinians in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, the West Bank, and Gaza. U.S. contributions to UNRWA—separate from U.S. bilateral aid to the West Bank and Gaza—come from the Migration and Refugee Assistance (MRA) account and the Emergency Refugee and Migration Assistance (ERMA) account. Since UNRWA’s inception in 1950, the United States has provided the agency with nearly $4 billion in contributions).
Until the 1990s, Arab governments refrained from contributing to UNRWA’s budget in an effort to keep the Palestinian refugee issue on the international agenda and to press Israel to accept responsibility for their plight. Since then, most Arab states have made relatively small annual contributions.
According to UNRWA’s website (http://www.unrwa.org/userfiles/file/financial_updates/2009/Total_Contributions_to_UNRWA_2009_All_Donors.pdf),
U.S. contributions in 2009 constituted approximately 20% of the UNRWA General Fund budget and 27% of the total budget. Aggregate contributions from the European Commission and European states (including both EU members and non-members) and regions constituted approximately 52% of the total budget.
US Foreign Aid to the Palestinians, US Congressional Research Service,
August 12, 2010
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
Of course, some might say that the US gives much more to Israel on an anuual basis and that would be true. This does not prohibit the Arab nations, especially those in OPEC from contributing to the assistance of the Palestinians through a UN agency.
Another issue to take up might be to question why other Arab nations don't provide more funding for Palestinians through UNWRA:
"The United States is the largest single-state donor to UNRWA, which provides food, shelter, medical care, and education for many of the original refugees from the 1948 Arab-Israeli war and their descendants—now comprising approximately 4.8 million Palestinians in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, the West Bank, and Gaza. U.S. contributions to UNRWA—separate from U.S. bilateral aid to the West Bank and Gaza—come from the Migration and Refugee Assistance (MRA) account and the Emergency Refugee and Migration Assistance (ERMA) account. Since UNRWA’s inception in 1950, the United States has provided the agency with nearly $4 billion in contributions).
Until the 1990s, Arab governments refrained from contributing to UNRWA’s budget in an effort to keep the Palestinian refugee issue on the international agenda and to press Israel to accept responsibility for their plight. Since then, most Arab states have made relatively small annual contributions.
According to UNRWA’s website (http://www.unrwa.org/userfiles/file/financial_updates/2009/Total_Contributions_to_UNRWA_2009_All_Donors.pdf),
U.S. contributions in 2009 constituted approximately 20% of the UNRWA General Fund budget and 27% of the total budget. Aggregate contributions from the European Commission and European states (including both EU members and non-members) and regions constituted approximately 52% of the total budget.
US Foreign Aid to the Palestinians, US Congressional Research Service,
August 12, 2010
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf
Of course, some might say that the US gives much more to Israel on an anuual basis and that would be true. This does not prohibit the Arab nations, especially those in OPEC from contributing to the assistance of the Palestinians through a UN agency.
More problems with Hamas...
"After four years of turbulent rule in the Gaza Strip, the Islamic militant group Hamas is weighing a new strategy of not directly participating in future governments even if it wins elections — an approach aimed at avoiding isolation by the world community and allowing for continued economic aid.
Hamas officials told The Associated Press the idea has gained favor in recent closed meetings of the secretive movement's leadership in the West Bank, Gaza, Egypt and Syria, and that it helped enable last month's reconciliation agreement with the rival Fatah group of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas....
The new approach reflects both the group's rigidity and its pragmatism: On the one hand, Hamas refuses to meet widespread global demands that it accept Israel's right to exist; on the other, its leaders grasp the price Palestinians would pay if the Islamic militants emerged fully in charge of a future government."
More problems with Hamas...
"After four years of turbulent rule in the Gaza Strip, the Islamic militant group Hamas is weighing a new strategy of not directly participating in future governments even if it wins elections — an approach aimed at avoiding isolation by the world community and allowing for continued economic aid.
Hamas officials told The Associated Press the idea has gained favor in recent closed meetings of the secretive movement's leadership in the West Bank, Gaza, Egypt and Syria, and that it helped enable last month's reconciliation agreement with the rival Fatah group of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas....
The new approach reflects both the group's rigidity and its pragmatism: On the one hand, Hamas refuses to meet widespread global demands that it accept Israel's right to exist; on the other, its leaders grasp the price Palestinians would pay if the Islamic militants emerged fully in charge of a future government."
Just for your information since 1995, Transparency International (TI) a non-governmental organization that monitors and publicizes corporate and political corruption in international development, has published an annual Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) ordering the countries of the world (178 countries) according to "the degree to which corruption is perceived to exist among public officials and politicians». The organization defines corruption as "the abuse of entrusted power for private gain.
Please find below the results for 2010
http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results
Results by rank for the Middle East Countries in 2010:
Israel: 30
Jordan: 50
Egypt: 98
Lebanon: 127
Syria: 127
Palestine: no listed
Just for your information since 1995, Transparency International (TI) a non-governmental organization that monitors and publicizes corporate and political corruption in international development, has published an annual Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) ordering the countries of the world (178 countries) according to "the degree to which corruption is perceived to exist among public officials and politicians». The organization defines corruption as "the abuse of entrusted power for private gain.
Please find below the results for 2010
http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results
Results by rank for the Middle East Countries in 2010:
Israel: 30
Jordan: 50
Egypt: 98
Lebanon: 127
Syria: 127
Palestine: no listed
hi
i swore i would never post again but have been deeply moved by a blog i read
and need to point out the following facts
Jordan occupied the west bank and east jerusalem from 1948 to 1967 when Israel conquered
.
Most Jews living in Israel today are liberal secular jews who dont plan on leaving Israel and going into exile
I believe most israelis would be willing to share TINY israel , the only homeland for 14 million Jews , where 6 million Jews live today, in order to finally live in peace.
It is without any doubt in my mind that the Arab world used Israel as a way to distract from their own problems just as the Church and tyrant leaders in Europe used the Jews for centuries to distract people from poverty and other issues as a scapegoat-
I have read very ugly comments on my country based on a lot of ignorance and dislike of zionism
Zionism started with Jews wishing to end the cycle of killing and dying for religious reasons, in other words they were sick of being scapegoated
Unfortunately people still demand from the tiny state a high level of sticking to agreements and borders and moral values that is not kept by any other country.
Can Israel improve? anyone can and should
however let us look again at the size of Israel, compare to the Arab lands
and remember that Israel took in MILLIONS of jewish refugees that had survived the holocaust and previous persecution in Europe and Arab lands
It is not true that the Jews enjoyed religious freedom in Arab lands and only Israel changed that, Jews every where lived in violence as a result of antisemitism which is why zionism began NOT to occupy land of Moslems but to resettle the historical Jewish homeland
The majority of people in Israel are liberal and secular, i repeat, no one want to occupy any other people but ask yourselves why the palestinians were not taken by their Arab brothers and helped just like Israel took in jewish refugees from Arab lands and did not keep them in refugee camps
Israel's first duty is to take care of the Jewish refugees that came there during the years when jews were murdered for being jews, (religious or not)
the Palestinian people lived under Moslem rule from 1948 to 1967 when Jordan occupied the west bank and east Jerusalem .
The PLO , the terrorist organization was founded in 1964 with every intention of destroying the Jewish state and since there was no occupation of the western bank at that time , Jordan occupied the west bank and east jerusalem one wonders
why did Jordan not create a palestinian state during all those years and why the palestinains did not ask for a state during all those years?
I have read so much hate towards Israel and i must answer that you must
look at how BIG israel is and ask yourself if you would like to be asked to
give up land from such a tiny piece of land, smaller than New jersey
No one wants to control palestinians but Israelis want to live in peace AND
security and if that means defying international opinions, if that means not being liked so be it but it is very unfair to blame Israel for being immoral when Europe and the Arab world made the life in Europe and the Arab countries impossible for jews so that they had no where to go
Asking Israel to compromise security and calling Israel fascist, racist is not only very wrong but it is not the problem
the problem is that meanwhile many Arab lands continue to abuse the rights of human beings living there because the world is focused on scapegoating Israel
Are the palestinians living well ? NO but what can be done?
If they recognize the right of Israel to exist and stop terror and violence
and negotiate like Egypt and Jordan , there will be peace
blaming israel for the reason there is war is not only not true to history
it is plain stupid
i will now unsubscribe from this thread and this lunacy
the only thing i learned is that there are certain people i will avoid on glocals
who seek only to fight and argue and dont really seek communication and to
understand anything but spit out whatever media spoonfeeds them and google information and quote extremists like chomski instead of just looking at maps and studying history a bit.
I have been called names and why? am i a racist or are the people calling
me a racist people who can never accept any other opinion but their own
I listen to people but i dont value opinions of people coming from Europe
who think the jews can just play russian roulette with their lives and criticise
Israel for wanting to survive in a very tough neighberhood-
End of speech
hi
i swore i would never post again but have been deeply moved by a blog i read
and need to point out the following facts
Jordan occupied the west bank and east jerusalem from 1948 to 1967 when Israel conquered
.
Most Jews living in Israel today are liberal secular jews who dont plan on leaving Israel and going into exile
I believe most israelis would be willing to share TINY israel , the only homeland for 14 million Jews , where 6 million Jews live today, in order to finally live in peace.
It is without any doubt in my mind that the Arab world used Israel as a way to distract from their own problems just as the Church and tyrant leaders in Europe used the Jews for centuries to distract people from poverty and other issues as a scapegoat-
I have read very ugly comments on my country based on a lot of ignorance and dislike of zionism
Zionism started with Jews wishing to end the cycle of killing and dying for religious reasons, in other words they were sick of being scapegoated
Unfortunately people still demand from the tiny state a high level of sticking to agreements and borders and moral values that is not kept by any other country.
Can Israel improve? anyone can and should
however let us look again at the size of Israel, compare to the Arab lands
and remember that Israel took in MILLIONS of jewish refugees that had survived the holocaust and previous persecution in Europe and Arab lands
It is not true that the Jews enjoyed religious freedom in Arab lands and only Israel changed that, Jews every where lived in violence as a result of antisemitism which is why zionism began NOT to occupy land of Moslems but to resettle the historical Jewish homeland
The majority of people in Israel are liberal and secular, i repeat, no one want to occupy any other people but ask yourselves why the palestinians were not taken by their Arab brothers and helped just like Israel took in jewish refugees from Arab lands and did not keep them in refugee camps
Israel's first duty is to take care of the Jewish refugees that came there during the years when jews were murdered for being jews, (religious or not)
the Palestinian people lived under Moslem rule from 1948 to 1967 when Jordan occupied the west bank and east Jerusalem .
The PLO , the terrorist organization was founded in 1964 with every intention of destroying the Jewish state and since there was no occupation of the western bank at that time , Jordan occupied the west bank and east jerusalem one wonders
why did Jordan not create a palestinian state during all those years and why the palestinains did not ask for a state during all those years?
I have read so much hate towards Israel and i must answer that you must
look at how BIG israel is and ask yourself if you would like to be asked to
give up land from such a tiny piece of land, smaller than New jersey
No one wants to control palestinians but Israelis want to live in peace AND
security and if that means defying international opinions, if that means not being liked so be it but it is very unfair to blame Israel for being immoral when Europe and the Arab world made the life in Europe and the Arab countries impossible for jews so that they had no where to go
Asking Israel to compromise security and calling Israel fascist, racist is not only very wrong but it is not the problem
the problem is that meanwhile many Arab lands continue to abuse the rights of human beings living there because the world is focused on scapegoating Israel
Are the palestinians living well ? NO but what can be done?
If they recognize the right of Israel to exist and stop terror and violence
and negotiate like Egypt and Jordan , there will be peace
blaming israel for the reason there is war is not only not true to history
it is plain stupid
i will now unsubscribe from this thread and this lunacy
the only thing i learned is that there are certain people i will avoid on glocals
who seek only to fight and argue and dont really seek communication and to
understand anything but spit out whatever media spoonfeeds them and google information and quote extremists like chomski instead of just looking at maps and studying history a bit.
I have been called names and why? am i a racist or are the people calling
me a racist people who can never accept any other opinion but their own
I listen to people but i dont value opinions of people coming from Europe
who think the jews can just play russian roulette with their lives and criticise
Israel for wanting to survive in a very tough neighberhood-
End of speech
Palestine is not recognized as a country.
I think UAE is not include in middle east, btw Qatar the "cleanest" arab country is ranked 19th :)
Palestine is not recognized as a country.
I think UAE is not include in middle east, btw Qatar the "cleanest" arab country is ranked 19th :)
Let's look at some exceptional reality here:
Circa 2001 - The Indian government used to be pretty generous with tourist visas back then, stamping six month, multiple-entry to almost any passport which graced their embassies. Thousands of Israelis used to descend onto Indian shores - some in search of spirituality & yoga, some freedom from life of constant war, some peace, while some'd look for all o'the above thro' - creme-de-la-creme hashish. Many among these folks were in their twenties, who'd take the next flight right after their strenuous military service.
Gradually, the number of Israelis in India increased, many tourists (incl. non Israelis) would go to Indian embassies in countries like Nepal, Thailand, Sri Lanka to get another stamp on their passports, which'd help them live in the subcontinent for the whole year.
This went on for a few years, we started having a couple of Hebrew heavens in India; where shops, restaurants & local businesses had signboards, menus etc. in Hebrew. Locals & domestic tourists complained, but not loud enough as these far-flung places had never been given an equally viable source of income by anyone else. Some setup impromptu Chabad houses to get together, while some chose to keep away from them. And well, we are used to different languages in India, how hard would it be to add another script and a God (or two) to our large database? Especially if it contributes to local economy...
This gave me the chance to travel with (cheap, for I believe it's pretty useless to do it any other way) & have many conversations with normal, down-to-earth commonfolk from Israel who, like everyone else of any religion or citizenship, hated war. They'd talk about the peace they found even in remote places of Kashmir which then, I found truly bizarre.
I've spent nights in the same hotel room with a Syrian and an Israeli making out. The only one who wanted to create war at that time was...I (only due to the lack of sleep & funds to get our own rooms). I've played with Israeli-Iranian babies, who were born in the lap of the Himalayas.
The peaceful bubble, one day had to burst. It was the Mossad, evil as usual, who announced in 2005 or 2006, (I think) - that Israeli citizens were at risk travelling in India. Israelis stopped coming in large numbers to their usual hangouts, but continued visiting anyways. No attack happened right away, but when it did in 2008, it was a massacre. It weren't only Jews who were attacked, but they sure were a prime target.
This is in a country where Jews reportedly arrived 2,500 years ago & have lived without any known anti-semitism events from the local population, despite the nation being ruled by folks of various faiths, including descendents of the Genghis Khan dynasty.
Now, if Papa Pilger - our preferred expert on Israeli combat tactics, has written anything about the above or provided similar links, please let me have them and I'd be glad to enlighten myself. I'd be surprised if he even finds reason to look for what Israelis do to find peace...for that I'm pretty sure - wouldn't bring any blog hits.
Oh yes, I almost forgot about my countrymen - they are now dealing with Russian menus & signboards and complain that at least, the Israelis spoke English, wished to explore the country & immerse themselves in our culture and Hebrew words were so much easier to understand. It ain't hard to find someone say - Those were days.
Next, thanks to the 2008 attacks - some in India look forward to some serious handshakes between hardline Hindutva forces in India & the Israeli security forces, to wipe out our own people who converted to other faiths & our evil neighbours - who used to be us, till 64 years ago when we grew tired of exchanging cattle, spices & software programs and decided to exchange humans.
One day, like the last link attempts - the presence of Israeli travellers in India WILL retroactively be equated to Mossad's presence. It'd make a great story - a spy agency, religions, illicit drugs, yoga, trance, raves, falafels, sex & rock n roll. I won't be writing it, though - further upon that spiced 'truth', I'll let Pilger & his cronies elaborate. If they haven't already, sooner or later, they will. And recreate history, which we can come back to fight about, on online forums.
A lot of the above is from my own private travel journals, embellished with my own opinions & chunks of history wherever applicable. I've provided links where I could find any supporting information, so please choose to believe at your own risk - I neither have the eyes of a journalist, nor the brain of a double-agent. For now I've only been found taking great pride in being the true symbol of riff-raff d'Annemasse. Yet for some stupid reason, I only think - I too, can see.
Here's some interesting Israel-based news - a new kid in town, called Like. I'd like to see Jenson Button call his kid Like.
Here, I end my interquel to War & Peace (& everything in between).
Let's look at some exceptional reality here:
Circa 2001 - The Indian government used to be pretty generous with tourist visas back then, stamping six month, multiple-entry to almost any passport which graced their embassies. Thousands of Israelis used to descend onto Indian shores - some in search of spirituality & yoga, some freedom from life of constant war, some peace, while some'd look for all o'the above thro' - creme-de-la-creme hashish. Many among these folks were in their twenties, who'd take the next flight right after their strenuous military service.
Gradually, the number of Israelis in India increased, many tourists (incl. non Israelis) would go to Indian embassies in countries like Nepal, Thailand, Sri Lanka to get another stamp on their passports, which'd help them live in the subcontinent for the whole year.
This went on for a few years, we started having a couple of Hebrew heavens in India; where shops, restaurants & local businesses had signboards, menus etc. in Hebrew. Locals & domestic tourists complained, but not loud enough as these far-flung places had never been given an equally viable source of income by anyone else. Some setup impromptu Chabad houses to get together, while some chose to keep away from them. And well, we are used to different languages in India, how hard would it be to add another script and a God (or two) to our large database? Especially if it contributes to local economy...
This gave me the chance to travel with (cheap, for I believe it's pretty useless to do it any other way) & have many conversations with normal, down-to-earth commonfolk from Israel who, like everyone else of any religion or citizenship, hated war. They'd talk about the peace they found even in remote places of Kashmir which then, I found truly bizarre.
I've spent nights in the same hotel room with a Syrian and an Israeli making out. The only one who wanted to create war at that time was...I (only due to the lack of sleep & funds to get our own rooms). I've played with Israeli-Iranian babies, who were born in the lap of the Himalayas.
The peaceful bubble, one day had to burst. It was the Mossad, evil as usual, who announced in 2005 or 2006, (I think) - that Israeli citizens were at risk travelling in India. Israelis stopped coming in large numbers to their usual hangouts, but continued visiting anyways. No attack happened right away, but when it did in 2008, it was a massacre. It weren't only Jews who were attacked, but they sure were a prime target.
This is in a country where Jews reportedly arrived 2,500 years ago & have lived without any known anti-semitism events from the local population, despite the nation being ruled by folks of various faiths, including descendents of the Genghis Khan dynasty.
Now, if Papa Pilger - our preferred expert on Israeli combat tactics, has written anything about the above or provided similar links, please let me have them and I'd be glad to enlighten myself. I'd be surprised if he even finds reason to look for what Israelis do to find peace...for that I'm pretty sure - wouldn't bring any blog hits.
Oh yes, I almost forgot about my countrymen - they are now dealing with Russian menus & signboards and complain that at least, the Israelis spoke English, wished to explore the country & immerse themselves in our culture and Hebrew words were so much easier to understand. It ain't hard to find someone say - Those were days.
Next, thanks to the 2008 attacks - some in India look forward to some serious handshakes between hardline Hindutva forces in India & the Israeli security forces, to wipe out our own people who converted to other faiths & our evil neighbours - who used to be us, till 64 years ago when we grew tired of exchanging cattle, spices & software programs and decided to exchange humans.
One day, like the last link attempts - the presence of Israeli travellers in India WILL retroactively be equated to Mossad's presence. It'd make a great story - a spy agency, religions, illicit drugs, yoga, trance, raves, falafels, sex & rock n roll. I won't be writing it, though - further upon that spiced 'truth', I'll let Pilger & his cronies elaborate. If they haven't already, sooner or later, they will. And recreate history, which we can come back to fight about, on online forums.
A lot of the above is from my own private travel journals, embellished with my own opinions & chunks of history wherever applicable. I've provided links where I could find any supporting information, so please choose to believe at your own risk - I neither have the eyes of a journalist, nor the brain of a double-agent. For now I've only been found taking great pride in being the true symbol of riff-raff d'Annemasse. Yet for some stupid reason, I only think - I too, can see.
Here's some interesting Israel-based news - a new kid in town, called Like. I'd like to see Jenson Button call his kid Like.
Here, I end my interquel to War & Peace (& everything in between).
hi
i swore i would never post again but have been deeply moved by a blog i read
and need to point out the following facts
Jordan occupied the west bank and east jerusalem from 1948 to 1967 when Israel conquered
.
Most Jews living in Israel today are liberal secular jews who dont plan on leaving Israel and going into exile
I believe most israelis would be willing to share TINY israel , the only homeland for 14 million Jews , where 6 million Jews live today, in order to finally live in peace.
It is without any doubt in my mind that the Arab world used Israel as a way to distract from their own problems just as the Church and tyrant leaders in Europe used the Jews for centuries to distract people from poverty and other issues as a scapegoat-
I have read very ugly comments on my country based on a lot of ignorance and dislike of zionism
Zionism started with Jews wishing to end the cycle of killing and dying for religious reasons, in other words they were sick of being scapegoated
Unfortunately people still demand from the tiny state a high level of sticking to agreements and borders and moral values that is not kept by any other country.
Can Israel improve? anyone can and should
however let us look again at the size of Israel, compare to the Arab lands
and remember that Israel took in MILLIONS of jewish refugees that had survived the holocaust and previous persecution in Europe and Arab lands
It is not true that the Jews enjoyed religious freedom in Arab lands and only Israel changed that, Jews every where lived in violence as a result of antisemitism which is why zionism began NOT to occupy land of Moslems but to resettle the historical Jewish homeland
The majority of people in Israel are liberal and secular, i repeat, no one want to occupy any other people but ask yourselves why the palestinians were not taken by their Arab brothers and helped just like Israel took in jewish refugees from Arab lands and did not keep them in refugee camps
Israel's first duty is to take care of the Jewish refugees that came there during the years when jews were murdered for being jews, (religious or not)
the Palestinian people lived under Moslem rule from 1948 to 1967 when Jordan occupied the west bank and east Jerusalem .
The PLO , the terrorist organization was founded in 1964 with every intention of destroying the Jewish state and since there was no occupation of the western bank at that time , Jordan occupied the west bank and east jerusalem one wonders
why did Jordan not create a palestinian state during all those years and why the palestinains did not ask for a state during all those years?
I have read so much hate towards Israel and i must answer that you must
look at how BIG israel is and ask yourself if you would like to be asked to
give up land from such a tiny piece of land, smaller than New jersey
No one wants to control palestinians but Israelis want to live in peace AND
security and if that means defying international opinions, if that means not being liked so be it but it is very unfair to blame Israel for being immoral when Europe and the Arab world made the life in Europe and the Arab countries impossible for jews so that they had no where to go
Asking Israel to compromise security and calling Israel fascist, racist is not only very wrong but it is not the problem
the problem is that meanwhile many Arab lands continue to abuse the rights of human beings living there because the world is focused on scapegoating Israel
Are the palestinians living well ? NO but what can be done?
If they recognize the right of Israel to exist and stop terror and violence
and negotiate like Egypt and Jordan , there will be peace
blaming israel for the reason there is war is not only not true to history
it is plain stupid
i will now unsubscribe from this thread and this lunacy
the only thing i learned is that there are certain people i will avoid on glocals
who seek only to fight and argue and dont really seek communication and to
understand anything but spit out whatever media spoonfeeds them and google information and quote extremists like chomski instead of just looking at maps and studying history a bit.
I have been called names and why? am i a racist or are the people calling
me a racist people who can never accept any other opinion but their own
I listen to people but i dont value opinions of people coming from Europe
who think the jews can just play russian roulette with their lives and criticise
Israel for wanting to survive in a very tough neighberhood-
End of speech
“If they recognize the right of Israel to exist and stop terror and violence and negotiate like Egypt and Jordan , there will be peace”
Don’t you think Israel should not also make any effort for peace?
In my opinion in the past you have been over the limits, we had a long conversation about it and we are done…
Personally I don’t blame your different point of view and to be honest before reading your former posts I was never really interested by the Middle East Conflict, so it is really a pity if you don’t continue the debate.
“If they recognize the right of Israel to exist and stop terror and violence and negotiate like Egypt and Jordan , there will be peace”
Don’t you think Israel should not also make any effort for peace?
In my opinion in the past you have been over the limits, we had a long conversation about it and we are done…
Personally I don’t blame your different point of view and to be honest before reading your former posts I was never really interested by the Middle East Conflict, so it is really a pity if you don’t continue the debate.
If you read the whole article, you will see that one of Hamas' main objectives is avoid alienating their more radical elements-- not to mention their Hezbollah allies...
One cannot seriously engage in this debate without looking at what is going on with the various factions amongst the Palestinians.
The same goes for looking at various factions amongst the Israelis. I am against what the Netanyahu government is doing but not against the existence of an Israeli state.
These are only two of the reasons why this debate is very complex.
If you read the whole article, you will see that one of Hamas' main objectives is avoid alienating their more radical elements-- not to mention their Hezbollah allies...
One cannot seriously engage in this debate without looking at what is going on with the various factions amongst the Palestinians.
The same goes for looking at various factions amongst the Israelis. I am against what the Netanyahu government is doing but not against the existence of an Israeli state.
These are only two of the reasons why this debate is very complex.
None of the UN agencies should be necessary "in our civilised world today." However, they are. I made this point to underline the fact that most Arab nations seem not to care about the plight of the Palestinians except as a "debating stick" to hit the Israelis with in international fora.
Had Arafat and Fatah not been so consistently corrupt, many Palestinian people could have benefitted much more from assistance. This was a key factor in the rise of Hamas whose organization has been much better at delivering services to people on the ground.
This situation is not just between two parties or factions--- thissituation is a matrix of regional and international interests. And caught in the middle are the ordinary citizens of all factions and governments.
But one question for you.
Why shouldn't Hamas agree that Israel has the right to exist in exchange for pre-1967 borders?
None of the UN agencies should be necessary "in our civilised world today." However, they are. I made this point to underline the fact that most Arab nations seem not to care about the plight of the Palestinians except as a "debating stick" to hit the Israelis with in international fora.
Had Arafat and Fatah not been so consistently corrupt, many Palestinian people could have benefitted much more from assistance. This was a key factor in the rise of Hamas whose organization has been much better at delivering services to people on the ground.
This situation is not just between two parties or factions--- thissituation is a matrix of regional and international interests. And caught in the middle are the ordinary citizens of all factions and governments.
But one question for you.
Why shouldn't Hamas agree that Israel has the right to exist in exchange for pre-1967 borders?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5162537.ece
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704904604576333314204138294.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/21/obama-cameron-pre-1967-palestinian-borders
Obama has already "broken rank" publicly on this issue..
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5162537.ece
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704904604576333314204138294.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/21/obama-cameron-pre-1967-palestinian-borders
Obama has already "broken rank" publicly on this issue..
Meanwhile, one would hope that the European Union might actually take some useful foreign policy steps as is recommended by this statement posted on Der Spiegel's website...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,767819,00.html
"It is time for the European Union to rethink its policy in the Middle East. That is the demand being made by 24 former heads of government, foreign ministers and peace negotiators. A Hamas recognition of Israel should be the goal rather than the precondition of the peace process, the leaders write in an open letter."
"
As former international leaders and peace negotiators, we have learnt first-hand that achieving a durable peace requires an inclusive approach. We consider it of vital importance that the international community supports Palestinian unity and avoids any steps that could jeopardise the fragile reconciliation process. In particular, we urge the United States and the European Union to constructively engage with the transitional government as well as with the Palestinian leadership that results from the elections next year. This is imperative for the following reasons:
Firstly, overcoming the political and institutional divide between the West Bank and Gaza is an obvious pre-condition for the establishment of a unified and viable Palestinian state
Secondly, a durable settlement with Israel can only be achieved if the Palestinian leadership is able to negotiate on behalf of all Palestinians and with the agreement of main political forces. Reconciliation is thus a prerequisite for achieving the two-state solution. It is not an obstacle to it. Asking Fatah to choose between making peace with Hamas and making peace with Israel presents a false choice: a lasting peace with Israel is only possible if Hamas is on board."
Meanwhile, one would hope that the European Union might actually take some useful foreign policy steps as is recommended by this statement posted on Der Spiegel's website...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,767819,00.html
"It is time for the European Union to rethink its policy in the Middle East. That is the demand being made by 24 former heads of government, foreign ministers and peace negotiators. A Hamas recognition of Israel should be the goal rather than the precondition of the peace process, the leaders write in an open letter."
"
As former international leaders and peace negotiators, we have learnt first-hand that achieving a durable peace requires an inclusive approach. We consider it of vital importance that the international community supports Palestinian unity and avoids any steps that could jeopardise the fragile reconciliation process. In particular, we urge the United States and the European Union to constructively engage with the transitional government as well as with the Palestinian leadership that results from the elections next year. This is imperative for the following reasons:
Firstly, overcoming the political and institutional divide between the West Bank and Gaza is an obvious pre-condition for the establishment of a unified and viable Palestinian state
Secondly, a durable settlement with Israel can only be achieved if the Palestinian leadership is able to negotiate on behalf of all Palestinians and with the agreement of main political forces. Reconciliation is thus a prerequisite for achieving the two-state solution. It is not an obstacle to it. Asking Fatah to choose between making peace with Hamas and making peace with Israel presents a false choice: a lasting peace with Israel is only possible if Hamas is on board."
I was beginning to wonder what kind of academic paper you were writing...
I was beginning to wonder what kind of academic paper you were writing...
I hiiiighly recommIND INdian INglish. After all, we INvented it and contINue to reINvent it. Add...a couple of beers for extra spice.
I hiiiighly recommIND INdian INglish. After all, we INvented it and contINue to reINvent it. Add...a couple of beers for extra spice.
Star,
Pls clarify: when you say "the handsom guy from Geneva", do you mean me or do you mean Charlie?
Star,
Pls clarify: when you say "the handsom guy from Geneva", do you mean me or do you mean Charlie?
Shaun,
Come on bro, it's clear to see that you, David Lawson, and the rest of them are in one (bottom) category, and me and Charlie are in another (superior) one! Arun is somewhere in the middle, depending if he's having a good or bad hair-day.
Shaun,
Come on bro, it's clear to see that you, David Lawson, and the rest of them are in one (bottom) category, and me and Charlie are in another (superior) one! Arun is somewhere in the middle, depending if he's having a good or bad hair-day.
Star,
Pls clarify: when you say "the handsom guy from Geneva", do you mean me or do you mean Charlie?
Nir,
Accept the obvious. Star and Felipe have become fond of each other thanks to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
As Christians say: ................the Lord works in misterious ways!!
:-)
Nir,
Accept the obvious. Star and Felipe have become fond of each other thanks to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
As Christians say: ................the Lord works in misterious ways!!
:-)
Shaun:
I hit in the soft spot for both of us, I'm also of the bald tribe...
Nef:
i think you're right, and that there's a good chance Star and Felipe will end up as a couple. I'd hate to be invited to a dinner at their place tho...can you imagine the conversation?
- Felipe: "so Star my love, what do you think about the settlments?"
- Star: "I think - enter enter enter - that (fill in 2 pages here)"
- Guest 1 (David Lawson): "yes, but Pilgrim disagrees"
And so the dinner would go on until the dinner-admin blocks it.
Shaun:
I hit in the soft spot for both of us, I'm also of the bald tribe...
Nef:
i think you're right, and that there's a good chance Star and Felipe will end up as a couple. I'd hate to be invited to a dinner at their place tho...can you imagine the conversation?
- Felipe: "so Star my love, what do you think about the settlments?"
- Star: "I think - enter enter enter - that (fill in 2 pages here)"
- Guest 1 (David Lawson): "yes, but Pilgrim disagrees"
And so the dinner would go on until the dinner-admin blocks it.
Shaun,
Come on bro, it's clear to see that you, David Lawson, and the rest of them are in one (bottom) category, and me and Charlie are in another (superior) one! Arun is somewhere in the middle, depending if he's having a good or bad hair-day.
That is racist! I wouldn't want to lose any hair over it, though.
You've landed on the right thread, sirs. We can custom-make some spiritual healing processes, which'll all as usual, come straaaaight from God. That makes it all free for life*. Hair's our marketing video...
* We also accept Paypal. We'll send you the form you can submit to your God directly for reimbursements.
You've landed on the right thread, sirs. We can custom-make some spiritual healing processes, which'll all as usual, come straaaaight from God. That makes it all free for life*. Hair's our marketing video...
* We also accept Paypal. We'll send you the form you can submit to your God directly for reimbursements.
Sanity may be madness but the maddest of all is to see life as it is and not as it should be.
~ Don Quixote, The most ferocious don known to humankind.
Sanity may be madness but the maddest of all is to see life as it is and not as it should be.
~ Don Quixote, The most ferocious don known to humankind.
Oh no. We already granted Morrissey citizenship. Now, it can only get worse - we'll even assign him a caste and make it truly unbearable for anyone to breathe.
It's just you & I left, everyone else's gone. So, there can't be any God. I'll share the beers & what the heck, I'll even throw in some hair. Only one condition...no 'fierce embracing', like ever.
Oh no. We already granted Morrissey citizenship. Now, it can only get worse - we'll even assign him a caste and make it truly unbearable for anyone to breathe.
It's just you & I left, everyone else's gone. So, there can't be any God. I'll share the beers & what the heck, I'll even throw in some hair. Only one condition...no 'fierce embracing', like ever.
OK, so back to the original discussion.
While there's posts in the forums about a ton of topics, Israel gets disproportional attention (the vast majority negative of course). Just look at the topics of the 10 hottest recent threads on the politics forum and you'll see it. it's a fact.
Now here's my own non-confirmed theory of at least one reason why Israel gets so much attention here. It's cos to folks who are not into the exact details of the Israel conflict - which is 95% of folks - it looks like a black and white case: Israel is the bad guy who doesn't want peace. So folks get angry at the obvious bad guy, and post about how easily the bad guy could "fix" things if he wanted to. I'll explain.
From most posts I've seen about Israel so far, the story to many people is this:
- the current conflict is all because Israel took land in 1967; and to make things worse israel now put a crazy blockade on Gaza.
- If Israel pulls back to 1967 borders, and removes the Gaza blockage, peace is there.
- Since Israel isn't doing those things, Israel doesn't want peace. So Israel is the clear bad war-lover here.
I've heard the above in 1 version or another many times. And I admit it: to someone who doesn't go deep, the story makes perfect sense. And if that's the story, people need to post about it cos it's so easy to fix!
But the above story is partial at best, and it doesn't consider many other very major elements in the conflict.
So that's my theory of why Israel gets so much attention here.
OK, so back to the original discussion.
While there's posts in the forums about a ton of topics, Israel gets disproportional attention (the vast majority negative of course). Just look at the topics of the 10 hottest recent threads on the politics forum and you'll see it. it's a fact.
Now here's my own non-confirmed theory of at least one reason why Israel gets so much attention here. It's cos to folks who are not into the exact details of the Israel conflict - which is 95% of folks - it looks like a black and white case: Israel is the bad guy who doesn't want peace. So folks get angry at the obvious bad guy, and post about how easily the bad guy could "fix" things if he wanted to. I'll explain.
From most posts I've seen about Israel so far, the story to many people is this:
- the current conflict is all because Israel took land in 1967; and to make things worse israel now put a crazy blockade on Gaza.
- If Israel pulls back to 1967 borders, and removes the Gaza blockage, peace is there.
- Since Israel isn't doing those things, Israel doesn't want peace. So Israel is the clear bad war-lover here.
I've heard the above in 1 version or another many times. And I admit it: to someone who doesn't go deep, the story makes perfect sense. And if that's the story, people need to post about it cos it's so easy to fix!
But the above story is partial at best, and it doesn't consider many other very major elements in the conflict.
So that's my theory of why Israel gets so much attention here.
OK, so back to the original discussion.
While there's posts in the forums about a ton of topics, Israel gets disproportional attention (the vast majority negative of course). Just look at the topics of the 10 hottest recent threads on the politics forum and you'll see it. it's a fact.
Now here's my own non-confirmed theory of at least one reason why Israel gets so much attention here. It's cos to folks who are not into the exact details of the Israel conflict - which is 95% of folks - it looks like a black and white case: Israel is the bad guy who doesn't want peace. So folks get angry at the obvious bad guy, and post about how easily the bad guy could "fix" things if he wanted to. I'll explain.
From most posts I've seen about Israel so far, the story to many people is this:
- the current conflict is all because Israel took land in 1967; and to make things worse israel now put a crazy blockade on Gaza.
- If Israel pulls back to 1967 borders, and removes the Gaza blockage, peace is there.
- Since Israel isn't doing those things, Israel doesn't want peace. So Israel is the clear bad war-lover here.
I've heard the above in 1 version or another many times. And I admit it: to someone who doesn't go deep, the story makes perfect sense. And if that's the story, people need to post about it cos it's so easy to fix!
But the above story is partial at best, and it doesn't consider many other very major elements in the conflict.
So that's my theory of why Israel gets so much attention here.
I think Nir made several important points. The situation is extremely complex as I have said before and there is "fault" on all sides, just as there are many sides.
As I understand it, the Obama Administration's strategy is to try to restart stalled negotiations. It seems that neither Hamas nor Netanyahu feel that the Administration's proposal -- and it is simply that -- a proposal -- is satisfactory.
This article from Der Spiegel gives some insight into how the proposal might work. But it is clear that Hamas must come into the tent and form some kind of coalition government with Fatah for there to be any kind of durable two-state solution.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,764642,00.html
But two clocks are ticking: one for the September 2011 UN debate on the vote for a Palestinian nation and the other for the US 2012 presidential vote.
Finally, this longer article quotes Tom Segev, a top Israeli historian who discusses how many Israelis don't see peace coming any time in the near future.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,765960,00.html
I agree that there could be many more interesting discussions, particularly involving nations or regions other than the Middle East or the U.S. Geneva is a center for commodities trading and an increasing number of hedge funds are relocating here. Yet there seems to be little to no interest in discussing those topics not to mention banking fraud and the rest....
I think Nir made several important points. The situation is extremely complex as I have said before and there is "fault" on all sides, just as there are many sides.
As I understand it, the Obama Administration's strategy is to try to restart stalled negotiations. It seems that neither Hamas nor Netanyahu feel that the Administration's proposal -- and it is simply that -- a proposal -- is satisfactory.
This article from Der Spiegel gives some insight into how the proposal might work. But it is clear that Hamas must come into the tent and form some kind of coalition government with Fatah for there to be any kind of durable two-state solution.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,764642,00.html
But two clocks are ticking: one for the September 2011 UN debate on the vote for a Palestinian nation and the other for the US 2012 presidential vote.
Finally, this longer article quotes Tom Segev, a top Israeli historian who discusses how many Israelis don't see peace coming any time in the near future.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,765960,00.html
I agree that there could be many more interesting discussions, particularly involving nations or regions other than the Middle East or the U.S. Geneva is a center for commodities trading and an increasing number of hedge funds are relocating here. Yet there seems to be little to no interest in discussing those topics not to mention banking fraud and the rest....
Yo Shaun,
This thread's thrust is why there's so much attention on Israel and not "what's the reality on the ground", so I'll just share 3 base points, below. My objective is not to say Israel does only good. My objective is to show the situation on the ground is a lot more complex that some folks believe, and that pulling back to pre-1967 borders is not a silver-bullet.
1. The Israel-Arab conflict started way before the 1967 war. Infact, it started the day Israel was founded.
2. Hamas, which rules Gaza, publicly states that Israel needs to be removed from this world. According to Hamas Israel shouldn't exist in its current borders, or in pre 1967 borders, or in any borders.
3. If Israel pulls back to pre-1967 borders, it means Hamas - which states it wants to destroy Israel - sits 8 km from Tel Aviv. Imagine the analogy: country X says "GVA needs to be destroyed in any case". And then some guys on the forum suggest to GVA to let country X move into Nyon...Sounds like suicide, no?
Again, my objective is not to say Israel does only good, cos that's not the case. My objective is to show the situation on the ground is a lot more complex that some folks believe, and that just pulling back to 1967 borders - without other fundamental changes happening - is not a solution.
Nir
Yo Shaun,
This thread's thrust is why there's so much attention on Israel and not "what's the reality on the ground", so I'll just share 3 base points, below. My objective is not to say Israel does only good. My objective is to show the situation on the ground is a lot more complex that some folks believe, and that pulling back to pre-1967 borders is not a silver-bullet.
1. The Israel-Arab conflict started way before the 1967 war. Infact, it started the day Israel was founded.
2. Hamas, which rules Gaza, publicly states that Israel needs to be removed from this world. According to Hamas Israel shouldn't exist in its current borders, or in pre 1967 borders, or in any borders.
3. If Israel pulls back to pre-1967 borders, it means Hamas - which states it wants to destroy Israel - sits 8 km from Tel Aviv. Imagine the analogy: country X says "GVA needs to be destroyed in any case". And then some guys on the forum suggest to GVA to let country X move into Nyon...Sounds like suicide, no?
Again, my objective is not to say Israel does only good, cos that's not the case. My objective is to show the situation on the ground is a lot more complex that some folks believe, and that just pulling back to 1967 borders - without other fundamental changes happening - is not a solution.
Nir
By the way Shaun, if you want to see - right from the horse's mouth - what Hamas says of Israel, read this:
By the way Shaun, if you want to see - right from the horse's mouth - what Hamas says of Israel, read this:
And Hamas probably would not have had such success in coming to power had Arafat not been so corrupt and spent more money on his fellow Palestinians.
Of course, some of that money ended up here in Switzerland...
And Hamas probably would not have had such success in coming to power had Arafat not been so corrupt and spent more money on his fellow Palestinians.
Of course, some of that money ended up here in Switzerland...
Trans: just like all roads lead to rome, so does all money lead to CH eventually...(-:
Trans: just like all roads lead to rome, so does all money lead to CH eventually...(-:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13713787
BBC News: "Star Trek's Mr. Spock Urges Two-State Solution"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13713787
BBC News: "Star Trek's Mr. Spock Urges Two-State Solution"
David R:
So what if Ben Gurion said that in 1938? I can bring you a ton of counter quotes from prominent Israel and Arab leaders, all from 2011. But all these quotes do nothing to help create a discussion here about a possible way forward.
It's clear you think Israel is the absolute bad guy here (as others on the forums think israel can do no wrong). That's your right. But just posting "Israel is bad" in different ways all over the forums gets the discussion no where...
Nir
David R:
So what if Ben Gurion said that in 1938? I can bring you a ton of counter quotes from prominent Israel and Arab leaders, all from 2011. But all these quotes do nothing to help create a discussion here about a possible way forward.
It's clear you think Israel is the absolute bad guy here (as others on the forums think israel can do no wrong). That's your right. But just posting "Israel is bad" in different ways all over the forums gets the discussion no where...
Nir
"Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded. Allah willing, before they die, they will experience humiliation and degradation every day."
-Dr. Mahmud Al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, Washington Times, February 4, 2006
"Neither the liberation of the Gaza Strip nor the liberation of the West Bank or even Jerusalem will suffice us. Hamas will pursue the armed struggle until the liberation of all our lands. We don't recognize the state of Israel or its right to hold onto one inch of Palestine. Palestine is an Islamic land belonging to all the Muslims."
-Dr. Mahmud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, The Jerusalem Post, August 18, 2005
"Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing."
-Khalid al-Mish'al, leader of Hamas, Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006
"She [Hamas suicide bomber Re'em Al-Riyashi] is not going to be the last because the march of resistance will continue until the Islamic flag is raised, not only over the minarets of Jerusalem, but over the whole universe."
-Dr. Mahmud Al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, Associated Press, January 15, 2004
"To hell with you all."
-Khalid al-Mish'al, leader of Hamas, speaking about German Chancellor Merkel's call for Hamas to recognize Israel, Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006
"Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded. Allah willing, before they die, they will experience humiliation and degradation every day."
-Dr. Mahmud Al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, Washington Times, February 4, 2006
"Neither the liberation of the Gaza Strip nor the liberation of the West Bank or even Jerusalem will suffice us. Hamas will pursue the armed struggle until the liberation of all our lands. We don't recognize the state of Israel or its right to hold onto one inch of Palestine. Palestine is an Islamic land belonging to all the Muslims."
-Dr. Mahmud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, The Jerusalem Post, August 18, 2005
"Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing."
-Khalid al-Mish'al, leader of Hamas, Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006
"She [Hamas suicide bomber Re'em Al-Riyashi] is not going to be the last because the march of resistance will continue until the Islamic flag is raised, not only over the minarets of Jerusalem, but over the whole universe."
-Dr. Mahmud Al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, Associated Press, January 15, 2004
"To hell with you all."
-Khalid al-Mish'al, leader of Hamas, speaking about German Chancellor Merkel's call for Hamas to recognize Israel, Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006
In my opinion, it's a great place. I have met some very interesting people and exchanged views with them during these debates. Not everyone believes this is a "black and white" issue; most political questions and situations involve much more nuance than that.
In my opinion, it's a great place. I have met some very interesting people and exchanged views with them during these debates. Not everyone believes this is a "black and white" issue; most political questions and situations involve much more nuance than that.
translator is right. i'd rather have the chance to talk about anything i want than feel there are taboo areas to be minced around all the time.
perhaps one reason israel features in so many threads is precisely because forums like glocals operate as a kind of pressure valve for a lot of repressed emotion in our society about a situation that is not considered polite and civil conversation.
the topic of israel can be quite a taboo subject for many people and glocals is an unusually open place which allows people to express themselves freely without worrying about whether or not policeman is going to shoot them in the face for having an opinion. so again, perhaps israel is such a big topic because 1. a lot of folks worry about the people who live in that part of the world. 2. this interest in israel/palestine and desire to learn and talk about it is repressed (and thus made stronger) by a fear of being branded a hater of arabs or a hater of jewish people (both fairly awful things to be accused of...)
unfortunately there are a minority of people on this site who are just plain rude and say horrible things. but i'm proud to be part of a community where decent people like ariel and david r can appear on the same thread and we all manage to recognise each others right to be treated with basic human respect. go team!
translator is right. i'd rather have the chance to talk about anything i want than feel there are taboo areas to be minced around all the time.
perhaps one reason israel features in so many threads is precisely because forums like glocals operate as a kind of pressure valve for a lot of repressed emotion in our society about a situation that is not considered polite and civil conversation.
the topic of israel can be quite a taboo subject for many people and glocals is an unusually open place which allows people to express themselves freely without worrying about whether or not policeman is going to shoot them in the face for having an opinion. so again, perhaps israel is such a big topic because 1. a lot of folks worry about the people who live in that part of the world. 2. this interest in israel/palestine and desire to learn and talk about it is repressed (and thus made stronger) by a fear of being branded a hater of arabs or a hater of jewish people (both fairly awful things to be accused of...)
unfortunately there are a minority of people on this site who are just plain rude and say horrible things. but i'm proud to be part of a community where decent people like ariel and david r can appear on the same thread and we all manage to recognise each others right to be treated with basic human respect. go team!
At the risk of sounding combative but not meaning even a bit of it - I see a certain irony in your post, about same people saying the same stuff. If I were to do a keyword search on "Palestine is still the issue - John Pilger" on glocals.com...I may find it in - serif, sans serif, italics, bold italics, comic sans...
Same people are saying the same stuff and the same people are thanking them for it - I agree. But I have utmost respect for them as to me, they help understand how ad nauseum propaganda works on some of us. And to such an extent that - we take to believing that it'd work on everyone, everywhere. Yet, many different other people are saying a lot of other contra-distinct stuff which is far from boring. It depends on how & from where one looks at it.
You're right, it's futile...but only if we've already made up our minds that it's already black or white, while none of us, nor our opinions are either carbon or lily coloured. Some of us even call ourselves so, thanks to colourblind ancestors, may peace be upon them.
I think this brings us closer, if done with the right intentions. How? I explain -
We're all from different parts of the world, currently living in & around this neutral country. We bring with us certain hypocrisies that we don't even realize exist within us. In this changing world, there's information thrown at us from like a hundred-thousand angles. Plus there's history from like a few thousand years, no less...let's mix some different perceptions each one of us have - of different elements that we collectively call history. Let's add cultural conditioning, jingoism, cronyism and a few more isms that each one subscribes to, on each subject that makes and most importantly, doesn't make it to int'l news arena.
Then, today, a lot of the opinions we form are from quotes, tweets & headlines from similar if not, the exact same sources.
Where else would we get such a mixed bag of people, from different walks of life who'd, through their political & other info coupled with opinions, help us look at some different, sometimes unheard of sources? Perhaps eventually, help us understand our own hypocrisies? However, those who come here believing they're never prone to doublespeak I guess, should stay away from this political underbelly. For if one enters here, it's hard to go back thinking, I am as right as I always used to be and will always be.
Also, why not? Do we fear of being attacked in some way because we posted some mindless political/other junk on Glocals.com?
If we do, let's go back to the Geneva is Boring thread and add another post cribbing how, no one talks about stuff that's important. As far as I know, politics has never been for the fainthearted, politically incorrect folks.
I hope you disagree, for I am a hypocrite; it's just that I don't know it yet. If you don't disagree, I'll still remain one - but it's ok, if you ever come across a post of mine that displays sanctimoniousness, I'd be truly grateful if you point it out to me.
At the risk of sounding combative but not meaning even a bit of it - I see a certain irony in your post, about same people saying the same stuff. If I were to do a keyword search on "Palestine is still the issue - John Pilger" on glocals.com...I may find it in - serif, sans serif, italics, bold italics, comic sans...
Same people are saying the same stuff and the same people are thanking them for it - I agree. But I have utmost respect for them as to me, they help understand how ad nauseum propaganda works on some of us. And to such an extent that - we take to believing that it'd work on everyone, everywhere. Yet, many different other people are saying a lot of other contra-distinct stuff which is far from boring. It depends on how & from where one looks at it.
You're right, it's futile...but only if we've already made up our minds that it's already black or white, while none of us, nor our opinions are either carbon or lily coloured. Some of us even call ourselves so, thanks to colourblind ancestors, may peace be upon them.
I think this brings us closer, if done with the right intentions. How? I explain -
We're all from different parts of the world, currently living in & around this neutral country. We bring with us certain hypocrisies that we don't even realize exist within us. In this changing world, there's information thrown at us from like a hundred-thousand angles. Plus there's history from like a few thousand years, no less...let's mix some different perceptions each one of us have - of different elements that we collectively call history. Let's add cultural conditioning, jingoism, cronyism and a few more isms that each one subscribes to, on each subject that makes and most importantly, doesn't make it to int'l news arena.
Then, today, a lot of the opinions we form are from quotes, tweets & headlines from similar if not, the exact same sources.
Where else would we get such a mixed bag of people, from different walks of life who'd, through their political & other info coupled with opinions, help us look at some different, sometimes unheard of sources? Perhaps eventually, help us understand our own hypocrisies? However, those who come here believing they're never prone to doublespeak I guess, should stay away from this political underbelly. For if one enters here, it's hard to go back thinking, I am as right as I always used to be and will always be.
Also, why not? Do we fear of being attacked in some way because we posted some mindless political/other junk on Glocals.com?
If we do, let's go back to the Geneva is Boring thread and add another post cribbing how, no one talks about stuff that's important. As far as I know, politics has never been for the fainthearted, politically incorrect folks.
I hope you disagree, for I am a hypocrite; it's just that I don't know it yet. If you don't disagree, I'll still remain one - but it's ok, if you ever come across a post of mine that displays sanctimoniousness, I'd be truly grateful if you point it out to me.
David R, I believe the world needs all kind of people, poets, thinkers, plumbers, engineers, cooks.......and a few (but only a few) bullies to keep awake our animal instints, ggggggggggggggggg
David R, I believe the world needs all kind of people, poets, thinkers, plumbers, engineers, cooks.......and a few (but only a few) bullies to keep awake our animal instints, ggggggggggggggggg
Yo Shaun,
This thread's thrust is why there's so much attention on Israel and not "what's the reality on the ground", so I'll just share 3 base points, below. My objective is not to say Israel does only good. My objective is to show the situation on the ground is a lot more complex that some folks believe, and that pulling back to pre-1967 borders is not a silver-bullet.
1. The Israel-Arab conflict started way before the 1967 war. Infact, it started the day Israel was founded.
2. Hamas, which rules Gaza, publicly states that Israel needs to be removed from this world. According to Hamas Israel shouldn't exist in its current borders, or in pre 1967 borders, or in any borders.
3. If Israel pulls back to pre-1967 borders, it means Hamas - which states it wants to destroy Israel - sits 8 km from Tel Aviv. Imagine the analogy: country X says "GVA needs to be destroyed in any case". And then some guys on the forum suggest to GVA to let country X move into Nyon...Sounds like suicide, no?
Again, my objective is not to say Israel does only good, cos that's not the case. My objective is to show the situation on the ground is a lot more complex that some folks believe, and that just pulling back to 1967 borders - without other fundamental changes happening - is not a solution.
Nir
Nir,
I would like to add to your point 1 that the Israel-Arab conflict started with The Balfour Declaration on November 2, 1917 and the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.
I fully agree that the situation on the ground is extremely complex and that "pulling back to 1967 borders" means very little today.
Nir,
I would like to add to your point 1 that the Israel-Arab conflict started with The Balfour Declaration on November 2, 1917 and the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.
I fully agree that the situation on the ground is extremely complex and that "pulling back to 1967 borders" means very little today.
David R:
So what if Ben Gurion said that in 1938? I can bring you a ton of counter quotes from prominent Israel and Arab leaders, all from 2011. But all these quotes do nothing to help create a discussion here about a possible way forward.
It's clear you think Israel is the absolute bad guy here (as others on the forums think israel can do no wrong). That's your right. But just posting "Israel is bad" in different ways all over the forums gets the discussion no where...
Nir
Nir,
Unless you haven't already noticed this whole thread is going nowhere - which, without being a rocket scientist, we all knew it would - especially Ariel who posted it in the first place!
But to stay on topic (as I'd hate to stray) Yes I care about a lot of other issues and couldn't give a flying f--k about Gaza, Israel or the whole shooting match to be honest. Question answered.
What I would agree with is David's point that this site SHOULD be for bringing people together not this point which we knew would only serve to get people angry with each other which seems contrary to the whole point of setting up Glocals in the first place. Unless I'm wrong? Maybe you can correct me on that.
Nir,
Unless you haven't already noticed this whole thread is going nowhere - which, without being a rocket scientist, we all knew it would - especially Ariel who posted it in the first place!
But to stay on topic (as I'd hate to stray) Yes I care about a lot of other issues and couldn't give a flying f--k about Gaza, Israel or the whole shooting match to be honest. Question answered.
What I would agree with is David's point that this site SHOULD be for bringing people together not this point which we knew would only serve to get people angry with each other which seems contrary to the whole point of setting up Glocals in the first place. Unless I'm wrong? Maybe you can correct me on that.
Rich, David R,
It's true that a lot of the Political discussions here quickly escalate to personal insults, and that glocals.com is all about doing real activities with real people and not about being-the-PC theoretical debate.
As stated before, we're trying different things with the Politics topics. We 1st had them as a regular forum, then we banned them for a while, and now we have a special Politics forum which doesn't show up on the front page (in contrast to other forums) so that the bad vibes stay confined only to those who actively go seek them out. We're still not sure how to continue with political topics, on vera.
Nir
Rich, David R,
It's true that a lot of the Political discussions here quickly escalate to personal insults, and that glocals.com is all about doing real activities with real people and not about being-the-PC theoretical debate.
As stated before, we're trying different things with the Politics topics. We 1st had them as a regular forum, then we banned them for a while, and now we have a special Politics forum which doesn't show up on the front page (in contrast to other forums) so that the bad vibes stay confined only to those who actively go seek them out. We're still not sure how to continue with political topics, on vera.
Nir
Nir,
Unless you haven't already noticed this whole thread is going nowhere - which, without being a rocket scientist, we all knew it would - especially Ariel who posted it in the first place!
But to stay on topic (as I'd hate to stray) Yes I care about a lot of other issues and couldn't give a flying f--k about Gaza, Israel or the whole shooting match to be honest. Question answered.
What I would agree with is David's point that this site SHOULD be for bringing people together not this point which we knew would only serve to get people angry with each other which seems contrary to the whole point of setting up Glocals in the first place. Unless I'm wrong? Maybe you can correct me on that.
Rich,
Nobody is forcing you to stay on this thread if you don't like it and unless the Administrator decides to shut it down it will remain open for people to view their opinions.
I cannot only speak for myself but I am certainly not angry at all with anybody on this forum and I am learning a lot about other people's sensibilities, fears and perceptions of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
Rich,
Nobody is forcing you to stay on this thread if you don't like it and unless the Administrator decides to shut it down it will remain open for people to view their opinions.
I cannot only speak for myself but I am certainly not angry at all with anybody on this forum and I am learning a lot about other people's sensibilities, fears and perceptions of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
"Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded. Allah willing, before they die, they will experience humiliation and degradation every day."
-Dr. Mahmud Al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, Washington Times, February 4, 2006
"Neither the liberation of the Gaza Strip nor the liberation of the West Bank or even Jerusalem will suffice us. Hamas will pursue the armed struggle until the liberation of all our lands. We don't recognize the state of Israel or its right to hold onto one inch of Palestine. Palestine is an Islamic land belonging to all the Muslims."
-Dr. Mahmud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, The Jerusalem Post, August 18, 2005
"Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing."
-Khalid al-Mish'al, leader of Hamas, Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006
"She [Hamas suicide bomber Re'em Al-Riyashi] is not going to be the last because the march of resistance will continue until the Islamic flag is raised, not only over the minarets of Jerusalem, but over the whole universe."
-Dr. Mahmud Al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, Associated Press, January 15, 2004
"To hell with you all."
-Khalid al-Mish'al, leader of Hamas, speaking about German Chancellor Merkel's call for Hamas to recognize Israel, Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006
David Tile,
You could have quoted Arab leaders that were contemporary to David Ben Gurion and it might have been interesting for the debate?
David Tile,
You could have quoted Arab leaders that were contemporary to David Ben Gurion and it might have been interesting for the debate?
Breshna,
I will not provide more links or book title to try to justify something that is already stated in the muslim hadiths, please check them if you need to see for yourself. Additionally, I would be grateful if you could stop insinuating that I am ignorant or that I insult Islam/muslims, this is getting tedious now. I do not pretend to know everything but for your information I studied Islam at university and have read several books on the subject since then.
Many people think Muhammad was a great man and many others think differently and may also say so, this is their right.
Regards,
Sarah
Breshna,
I will not provide more links or book title to try to justify something that is already stated in the muslim hadiths, please check them if you need to see for yourself. Additionally, I would be grateful if you could stop insinuating that I am ignorant or that I insult Islam/muslims, this is getting tedious now. I do not pretend to know everything but for your information I studied Islam at university and have read several books on the subject since then.
Many people think Muhammad was a great man and many others think differently and may also say so, this is their right.
Regards,
Sarah
Comedy cures alot more than guns.....
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1588038,00.html
Lighten up guys.
And here is my contribution......
Comedy cures alot more than guns.....
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1588038,00.html
Lighten up guys.
And here is my contribution......
Charlie: You're a racist, because you said the Jew was fat and little! Everyone knows that only palestinians are fat and little! OK, I jest...good to see a joke here, even if the end of it was easy to see a mile away...(-;
Charlie: You're a racist, because you said the Jew was fat and little! Everyone knows that only palestinians are fat and little! OK, I jest...good to see a joke here, even if the end of it was easy to see a mile away...(-;
mate, it was the most equally sided joke i could find...
David Tile,
You could have quoted Arab leaders that were contemporary to David Ben Gurion and it might have been interesting for the debate?
h
David Tile,
You could have quoted Arab leaders that were contemporary to David Ben Gurion and it might have been interesting for the debate?
what debate? All I see is people with too little knowledge and too many biases copying sentiments from sources that fit their agendas.
It hurts me to agree with someone like David but I too think that a politics forum is a bad idea. G locals should bring people together not divide them by helping them showcase their ignorance and racism
And for the record - I am not pro Israel or anti Palestine. I am pro knowledge and discussion and anti people thinking they know everything because they read it, and it was written by someone who 'has lived in the middle east and so knows what hes talking about'
what debate? All I see is people with too little knowledge and too many biases copying sentiments from sources that fit their agendas.
It hurts me to agree with someone like David but I too think that a politics forum is a bad idea. G locals should bring people together not divide them by helping them showcase their ignorance and racism
And for the record - I am not pro Israel or anti Palestine. I am pro knowledge and discussion and anti people thinking they know everything because they read it, and it was written by someone who 'has lived in the middle east and so knows what hes talking about'
Hi folks,
I'm not going to venture into this 'debate' but I would like to add a comment about the politics forum since it keeps coming up.
The current format of the politics format is an experiment on our part and we're taking some time to see how it goes.
If we see that this forum encourages open debates between people who want to learn / hear other opinions, we'll probably keep it open. If we see that it just creates fights and antagonism we'll probably get rid of it.
So please – before posting on this forum, take a second to think about what you're posting and why, and about whether the stuff you're posting is the same stuff you'd say if you were discussing politics at a bar with a stranger.
Thanks
Oded
Hi folks,
I'm not going to venture into this 'debate' but I would like to add a comment about the politics forum since it keeps coming up.
The current format of the politics format is an experiment on our part and we're taking some time to see how it goes.
If we see that this forum encourages open debates between people who want to learn / hear other opinions, we'll probably keep it open. If we see that it just creates fights and antagonism we'll probably get rid of it.
So please – before posting on this forum, take a second to think about what you're posting and why, and about whether the stuff you're posting is the same stuff you'd say if you were discussing politics at a bar with a stranger.
Thanks
Oded
Hi David Tile,
We agree on that one, what debate? That is why I had put a question mark at the end of my sentence.
I do not thking we are doing so bad when it comes to exchanging views though. You had not expressed yourself until now (apart from the quotes as far as I recall) and now you are agreeing with David (even if it hurts) on the idea that political forums are a bad idea for Glocals.
Now David,.........not divide them by helping them showcase their ignorance and racism, that is really mean!!!!! bad boy!!!
For the record, I am pro Israel and pro Palestine and I am going to have a glass of champagne to celebrate the fact that many people feel the same way.
So long!!!
Hi David Tile,
We agree on that one, what debate? That is why I had put a question mark at the end of my sentence.
I do not thking we are doing so bad when it comes to exchanging views though. You had not expressed yourself until now (apart from the quotes as far as I recall) and now you are agreeing with David (even if it hurts) on the idea that political forums are a bad idea for Glocals.
Now David,.........not divide them by helping them showcase their ignorance and racism, that is really mean!!!!! bad boy!!!
For the record, I am pro Israel and pro Palestine and I am going to have a glass of champagne to celebrate the fact that many people feel the same way.
So long!!!
And let's say, for the sake of argument, that this bar is located somewhere in the Middle East...
And let's say, for the sake of argument, that this bar is located somewhere in the Middle East...
I think we are all adults and we all know what we can say and what we cannot say and if some don’t know how to behave the moderators are here for this.
It is always nice to share different point of view. I learnt a lot from people who have different points than me, besides I met great people in the different politic treads.
I just hope the moderators will be as much as possible enough neutral in the different politics tread to treat everyone the same and don’t give privileges to the people who share the same views.
I think we are all adults and we all know what we can say and what we cannot say and if some don’t know how to behave the moderators are here for this.
It is always nice to share different point of view. I learnt a lot from people who have different points than me, besides I met great people in the different politic treads.
I just hope the moderators will be as much as possible enough neutral in the different politics tread to treat everyone the same and don’t give privileges to the people who share the same views.
I think we are all adults and we all know what we can say and what we cannot say and if some don’t know how to behave the moderators are here for this.
It is always nice to share different point of view. I learnt a lot from people who have different points than me, besides I met great people in the different politic treads.
I just hope the moderators will be as much as possible enough neutral in the different politics tread to treat everyone the same and don’t give privileges to the people who share the same views.
CLARIFICATIONS DUE :
I have stopped posting because the site manager indeed does not treat everyone the same so while Felipe got to post a thread calling to ban me, i got a phone call telling me / asking me to stop posting because there have been complaints about me, so just so you know i think i was the only one who was told to stop posting which just shows you that actually if anyone was being singled out and cast out, it is I.
Second of all and important to point out
"that handome guy from Geneva" is Felipe without any sort of competition whatsoever..have no doubt about that
As for the theory of a theoratical partnership there are other reasons besides political divides
I actually appreciate Felipe's great spirit and passion just would like to see it put to use in other fields of life, but not with me, as i have other fish to fry at the moment
I wish you a good night
and would like to add that the Arab Israel conflict did not begin in 1948 as Nir said but way before that, the Jewish and Arab population clashed long before that and the cooperation of the mufti of Jerusalem with the Nazi regime was way before 1948 and the pogroms against Jews in Hebren and Jaffa were way before 1948
The problem is one of tolerance, and the film "Earth " by Deepa Mehta is a great film about how people clashed in India in 1947 around the time the British empire divided India into India and Pakistan, causing violence and blood shed,
nationalism has its price and i personally have learned a lot from this discussion and have given much thought to how different people view the situation ,i see the situation as deriving very clearly from the mistake the British made in dividing the land the way they did and by allow the Arab population to dictate to it a lot of its decisions,
I see the Jews also being blamed for not sticking to border but i think it is a fact that Jordan occupied illegally the west bank and east Jerusalem from 1948 till 1967 and still there was not one word about establishing Palestine.
I regret that many people have very unrealistic expectations of a Palestinian state, i wish very much to emphasis the need for both sides to tolerate eachother just as we must tolerate posts by people we do not agree with and just as the people who run this site should appreciate the time and effort that go into answering the mad masses that took over previous posts about Israel
After all let us not forget this is a business run by business people just like Facebook makes money from each and every member , and so perhaps a good idea is to meet on a bench somewhere and discuss politics face to face
i suspect the anger will then not be as great and soon everyone will be grilling and grinning
Namaste
CLARIFICATIONS DUE :
I have stopped posting because the site manager indeed does not treat everyone the same so while Felipe got to post a thread calling to ban me, i got a phone call telling me / asking me to stop posting because there have been complaints about me, so just so you know i think i was the only one who was told to stop posting which just shows you that actually if anyone was being singled out and cast out, it is I.
Second of all and important to point out
"that handome guy from Geneva" is Felipe without any sort of competition whatsoever..have no doubt about that
As for the theory of a theoratical partnership there are other reasons besides political divides
I actually appreciate Felipe's great spirit and passion just would like to see it put to use in other fields of life, but not with me, as i have other fish to fry at the moment
I wish you a good night
and would like to add that the Arab Israel conflict did not begin in 1948 as Nir said but way before that, the Jewish and Arab population clashed long before that and the cooperation of the mufti of Jerusalem with the Nazi regime was way before 1948 and the pogroms against Jews in Hebren and Jaffa were way before 1948
The problem is one of tolerance, and the film "Earth " by Deepa Mehta is a great film about how people clashed in India in 1947 around the time the British empire divided India into India and Pakistan, causing violence and blood shed,
nationalism has its price and i personally have learned a lot from this discussion and have given much thought to how different people view the situation ,i see the situation as deriving very clearly from the mistake the British made in dividing the land the way they did and by allow the Arab population to dictate to it a lot of its decisions,
I see the Jews also being blamed for not sticking to border but i think it is a fact that Jordan occupied illegally the west bank and east Jerusalem from 1948 till 1967 and still there was not one word about establishing Palestine.
I regret that many people have very unrealistic expectations of a Palestinian state, i wish very much to emphasis the need for both sides to tolerate eachother just as we must tolerate posts by people we do not agree with and just as the people who run this site should appreciate the time and effort that go into answering the mad masses that took over previous posts about Israel
After all let us not forget this is a business run by business people just like Facebook makes money from each and every member , and so perhaps a good idea is to meet on a bench somewhere and discuss politics face to face
i suspect the anger will then not be as great and soon everyone will be grilling and grinning
Namaste
You see guys, the moderator is no one's friend...(-: Star thinks we let Felipe get away with too much and we go harder on her, Felipe thinks Star gets better treatment than him, etc.
Anyway, I suspended Star's account for a while. Not because of her latest post, but because we received several complaints about her over the past 2 weeks from several people. She was asked and agreed several times to stay away from the Political forum for a while. But she can't stay away, so she's on "forced vacation" for a while.
PS: regardless of what Star says, I'm still sure that I am the handsome guy from Geneva!
Nir
You see guys, the moderator is no one's friend...(-: Star thinks we let Felipe get away with too much and we go harder on her, Felipe thinks Star gets better treatment than him, etc.
Anyway, I suspended Star's account for a while. Not because of her latest post, but because we received several complaints about her over the past 2 weeks from several people. She was asked and agreed several times to stay away from the Political forum for a while. But she can't stay away, so she's on "forced vacation" for a while.
PS: regardless of what Star says, I'm still sure that I am the handsome guy from Geneva!
Nir
In my opinion political forum should be banned on Glocals.
David Tile,
You could have quoted Arab leaders that were contemporary to David Ben Gurion and it might have been interesting for the debate?
Here you are..
.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni
"As a passionate antisemite[3] al-Husayni encouraged his followers to "kill theJews wherever you find them".[4] During World War II, he collaborated with theNazis[5] and, in 1941, met the Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler in Germany.[6] He asked Hitler to back Arab independence and requested that Nazi Germany oppose the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish national home as part of the Pan-Arab struggle.[7] According to an American report, al-Husayni energetically recruited Muslims for the Waffen-SS, the Nazi Party's elite military command. He was promised the leadership of Palestine after German troops had driven out the British and exterminated the Jews living there.[8] This would have meant the deaths of over 350,000 people. At the end of the war, he was allowed to flee to Syria as part of an attempt to prevent the alienation of Middle Eastern regimes.[8]"
I know some people object to wikipedia. So, here's a reference from the US Holocaust Museum.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007667
The point is, yes, there were some "leaders" contemporary to D.B.G. who preached hate...there is enough to go around on all sides...
Here you are..
.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amin_al-Husayni
"As a passionate antisemite[3] al-Husayni encouraged his followers to "kill theJews wherever you find them".[4] During World War II, he collaborated with theNazis[5] and, in 1941, met the Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler in Germany.[6] He asked Hitler to back Arab independence and requested that Nazi Germany oppose the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish national home as part of the Pan-Arab struggle.[7] According to an American report, al-Husayni energetically recruited Muslims for the Waffen-SS, the Nazi Party's elite military command. He was promised the leadership of Palestine after German troops had driven out the British and exterminated the Jews living there.[8] This would have meant the deaths of over 350,000 people. At the end of the war, he was allowed to flee to Syria as part of an attempt to prevent the alienation of Middle Eastern regimes.[8]"
I know some people object to wikipedia. So, here's a reference from the US Holocaust Museum.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007667
The point is, yes, there were some "leaders" contemporary to D.B.G. who preached hate...there is enough to go around on all sides...
In my opinion political forum should be banned on Glocals.
I quite like the political forums and I think it would be a great shame if glocals members never had the chance to comment upon the world around them.
I quite like the political forums and I think it would be a great shame if glocals members never had the chance to comment upon the world around them.
CLARIFICATIONS DUE :
I have stopped posting because the site manager indeed does not treat everyone the same so while Felipe got to post a thread calling to ban me, i got a phone call telling me / asking me to stop posting because there have been complaints about me, so just so you know i think i was the only one who was told to stop posting which just shows you that actually if anyone was being singled out and cast out, it is I.
Second of all and important to point out
"that handome guy from Geneva" is Felipe without any sort of competition whatsoever..have no doubt about that
As for the theory of a theoratical partnership there are other reasons besides political divides
I actually appreciate Felipe's great spirit and passion just would like to see it put to use in other fields of life, but not with me, as i have other fish to fry at the moment
I wish you a good night
and would like to add that the Arab Israel conflict did not begin in 1948 as Nir said but way before that, the Jewish and Arab population clashed long before that and the cooperation of the mufti of Jerusalem with the Nazi regime was way before 1948 and the pogroms against Jews in Hebren and Jaffa were way before 1948
The problem is one of tolerance, and the film "Earth " by Deepa Mehta is a great film about how people clashed in India in 1947 around the time the British empire divided India into India and Pakistan, causing violence and blood shed,
nationalism has its price and i personally have learned a lot from this discussion and have given much thought to how different people view the situation ,i see the situation as deriving very clearly from the mistake the British made in dividing the land the way they did and by allow the Arab population to dictate to it a lot of its decisions,
I see the Jews also being blamed for not sticking to border but i think it is a fact that Jordan occupied illegally the west bank and east Jerusalem from 1948 till 1967 and still there was not one word about establishing Palestine.
I regret that many people have very unrealistic expectations of a Palestinian state, i wish very much to emphasis the need for both sides to tolerate eachother just as we must tolerate posts by people we do not agree with and just as the people who run this site should appreciate the time and effort that go into answering the mad masses that took over previous posts about Israel
After all let us not forget this is a business run by business people just like Facebook makes money from each and every member , and so perhaps a good idea is to meet on a bench somewhere and discuss politics face to face
i suspect the anger will then not be as great and soon everyone will be grilling and grinning
Namaste
“Felipe got to post a thread calling to ban me”
I posted a thread because I was shocked by some of your posts. I really like to talk about politic, however as I said in my opinion you were over the limit. Besides I was also thinking the moderators didn’t take enough any actions to avoid this kind of post.
“I actually appreciate Felipe's great spirit and passion just would like to see it put to use in other fields of life, but not with me, as i have other fish to fry at the moment”
I like to fight for my conviction; I was fighting against your posts but not your person.
“i got a phone call telling me / asking me to stop posting because there have been complaints about me”
I am pretty sure if I was in your situation I would not have got a phone call
Btw thank you for the nickname "handome guy from Geneva" I really like it
“Felipe got to post a thread calling to ban me”
I posted a thread because I was shocked by some of your posts. I really like to talk about politic, however as I said in my opinion you were over the limit. Besides I was also thinking the moderators didn’t take enough any actions to avoid this kind of post.
“I actually appreciate Felipe's great spirit and passion just would like to see it put to use in other fields of life, but not with me, as i have other fish to fry at the moment”
I like to fight for my conviction; I was fighting against your posts but not your person.
“i got a phone call telling me / asking me to stop posting because there have been complaints about me”
I am pretty sure if I was in your situation I would not have got a phone call
Btw thank you for the nickname "handome guy from Geneva" I really like it
You see guys, the moderator is no one's friend...(-: Star thinks we let Felipe get away with too much and we go harder on her, Felipe thinks Star gets better treatment than him, etc.
Anyway, I suspended Star's account for a while. Not because of her latest post, but because we received several complaints about her over the past 2 weeks from several people. She was asked and agreed several times to stay away from the Political forum for a while. But she can't stay away, so she's on "forced vacation" for a while.
PS: regardless of what Star says, I'm still sure that I am the handsome guy from Geneva!
Nir
“Felipe thinks Star gets better treatment than him”
Indeed I was thinking she had more privileges than me.
“Felipe thinks Star gets better treatment than him”
Indeed I was thinking she had more privileges than me.
In my opinion political forum should be banned on Glocals.
Hey Medicis: No offense. Great to hear you have one, like many others who use this space for read-only purposes and wait to throw concluding judgments when required.
We respect & welcome everyone's opinions here; but if you could elaborate on why, it'd help some idiots like me tie bizarre elements called logic to your contribution.
Hey Medicis: No offense. Great to hear you have one, like many others who use this space for read-only purposes and wait to throw concluding judgments when required.
We respect & welcome everyone's opinions here; but if you could elaborate on why, it'd help some idiots like me tie bizarre elements called logic to your contribution.
Well, David, have the members finally stopped posting yet?
You owe me a piece of information, you know, and that's what I'd like.
An ad in the national edition of the Times and in the International
Herald-Tribune on the first of any month will be fine. Better put it in the
Tribune de Genève as well.
I won't be surprised if the answer is yes and no. The posters will stop for now.
But, David, you judge yourself with all the mercy of site admin; you'll have to
earn it again and again, the blessed silence. Because it's the threads that
drive you, seeing the various plights in the Politics forum, which will not end, ever.
I have no plans to call on you, David, the site being a more interesting with
you in it. Be sure you extend me the same courtesy.
Yours,
Dick Lecter M.D.
(That's how you properly plagairise Thomas Harris!!!!)
Well, David, have the members finally stopped posting yet?
You owe me a piece of information, you know, and that's what I'd like.
An ad in the national edition of the Times and in the International
Herald-Tribune on the first of any month will be fine. Better put it in the
Tribune de Genève as well.
I won't be surprised if the answer is yes and no. The posters will stop for now.
But, David, you judge yourself with all the mercy of site admin; you'll have to
earn it again and again, the blessed silence. Because it's the threads that
drive you, seeing the various plights in the Politics forum, which will not end, ever.
I have no plans to call on you, David, the site being a more interesting with
you in it. Be sure you extend me the same courtesy.
Yours,
Dick Lecter M.D.
(That's how you properly plagairise Thomas Harris!!!!)
FYI News Update:
Benjamin Netanyahu is hoping to convince at least 30 countries to vote against recognising a Palestinian state should the United Nations debate the issue in September.
Besides the Israeli actress Natalie Portman gives birth to baby boy and he is half french
FYI News Update:
Benjamin Netanyahu is hoping to convince at least 30 countries to vote against recognising a Palestinian state should the United Nations debate the issue in September.
Besides the Israeli actress Natalie Portman gives birth to baby boy and he is half french
Leon is one of my favorite movie !
Hey Medicis: No offense. Great to hear you have one, like many others who use this space for read-only purposes and wait to throw concluding judgments when required.
We respect & welcome everyone's opinions here; but if you could elaborate on why, it'd help some idiots like me tie bizarre elements called logic to your contribution.
Hey Aron,
I sent you request for a chat but, you didn't accept.
You have pm
Hey Aron,
I sent you request for a chat but, you didn't accept.
You have pm
Hey Aron,
I sent you request for a chat but, you didn't accept.
You have pm
Voila. Now I have more reason to blame glocals chat which doesn't work for me even when ladies of this site want to get in touch with me - I suspect it's the CIA's handiwork.
I saw your message & I'll send you a reply, I promise. My comprehension & vocal chords in French though are like those of Idifix, so you may have to exercise a great deal of patience.
Voila. Now I have more reason to blame glocals chat which doesn't work for me even when ladies of this site want to get in touch with me - I suspect it's the CIA's handiwork.
I saw your message & I'll send you a reply, I promise. My comprehension & vocal chords in French though are like those of Idifix, so you may have to exercise a great deal of patience.
FYI News Update:
Benjamin Netanyahu is hoping to convince at least 30 countries to vote against recognising a Palestinian state should the United Nations debate the issue in September.
Besides the Israeli actress Natalie Portman gives birth to baby boy and he is half french
To complete my original post:
The Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu serves also as the Chairman of the Likud Party, which is the major right-wing political party in Israel. The equivalent in France would be Le Front National, The British National Party in UK and UDC in Switzerland.
In the “Peace and Security” chapter of the Likud Party platform, a recent document (1999) it says about :
The settlements:
“The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.”
Hard to have a two-state solution.
On Palestinian self-rule it says:
“The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs”
Hard to see a Palestinian sovereign state.
On Jerusalem:
“Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem, including the plan to divide the city presented to the Knesset by the Arab factions and supported by many members of Labor and Meretz.”
Hard to see east Jerusalem as capital of a future Palestinian.
It looks like that the Likud party charter does not recognize Palestine and will not accept a sovereign Palestinian state.
Regarding the Hamas charter you understand I prefer to do not comment as we all know what it is based on.
To complete my original post:
The Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu serves also as the Chairman of the Likud Party, which is the major right-wing political party in Israel. The equivalent in France would be Le Front National, The British National Party in UK and UDC in Switzerland.
In the “Peace and Security” chapter of the Likud Party platform, a recent document (1999) it says about :
The settlements:
“The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting.”
Hard to have a two-state solution.
On Palestinian self-rule it says:
“The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs”
Hard to see a Palestinian sovereign state.
On Jerusalem:
“Jerusalem is the eternal, united capital of the State of Israel and only of Israel. The government will flatly reject Palestinian proposals to divide Jerusalem, including the plan to divide the city presented to the Knesset by the Arab factions and supported by many members of Labor and Meretz.”
Hard to see east Jerusalem as capital of a future Palestinian.
It looks like that the Likud party charter does not recognize Palestine and will not accept a sovereign Palestinian state.
Regarding the Hamas charter you understand I prefer to do not comment as we all know what it is based on.
Hey Aron,
I sent you request for a chat but, you didn't accept.
You have pm
instead of a private chat, I think it would be more beneficial to post something on the tread, in order to understand you point of view
instead of a private chat, I think it would be more beneficial to post something on the tread, in order to understand you point of view
“Felipe thinks Star gets better treatment than him”
Indeed I was thinking she had more privileges than me.
Receiving a phone call to stop posting, it is a privilege
It just confirmes what I thought...
Receiving a phone call to stop posting, it is a privilege
It just confirmes what I thought...
17 June 2011: Jerusalem rabbis 'condemn dog to death by stoning'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13819764
Please feel free to comment...
17 June 2011: Jerusalem rabbis 'condemn dog to death by stoning'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13819764
Please feel free to comment...
17 June 2011: Jerusalem rabbis 'condemn dog to death by stoning'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13819764
Please feel free to comment...
1 example of death by stoning,in Iran, just few months ago her name was Sakineh Mohammadi
she was 43 years old when she was killed by stoning...
Elisabeth Badinter condemns it, if in France the death penalty is bolished is due to her husband a french lawyer Robert Badinter...
1 example of death by stoning,in Iran, just few months ago her name was Sakineh Mohammadi
she was 43 years old when she was killed by stoning...
Elisabeth Badinter condemns it, if in France the death penalty is bolished is due to her husband a french lawyer Robert Badinter...
1 example of death by stoning,in Iran, just few months ago her name was Sakineh Mohammadi
she was 43 years old when she was killed by stoning...
Elisabeth Badinter condemns it, if in France the death penalty is bolished is due to her husband a french lawyer Robert Badinter...
Thank you to bringing the Sakineh story on the tread; it is very sad story, I blame all extremist shameful countries who is able to make this kind of atrocities!!!
Btw according to Amnest International Report published last month on 13th May 2011, it said she has not been executed, thanks to the global attention her sentence was under review.
She may not face death by stoning, according to the Iranian authorities. There is still hope.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/02/sakineh-mohammadi-ashtiani-iran-sentence
No offense in the future could you please check your source before to post them? It avoids spreading misinformation besides it gave the impression you are limited on general knowledge and I bet you are not.
I posted an article about a dog sentenced to death by stoning in Israel, because the tread title is names “Israel”. In my opinion before to post something worst from my article, we should first blame the sentence cos it gave the idea after all is not so bad.
Cheers,
Felipe
Thank you to bringing the Sakineh story on the tread; it is very sad story, I blame all extremist shameful countries who is able to make this kind of atrocities!!!
Btw according to Amnest International Report published last month on 13th May 2011, it said she has not been executed, thanks to the global attention her sentence was under review.
She may not face death by stoning, according to the Iranian authorities. There is still hope.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/02/sakineh-mohammadi-ashtiani-iran-sentence
No offense in the future could you please check your source before to post them? It avoids spreading misinformation besides it gave the impression you are limited on general knowledge and I bet you are not.
I posted an article about a dog sentenced to death by stoning in Israel, because the tread title is names “Israel”. In my opinion before to post something worst from my article, we should first blame the sentence cos it gave the idea after all is not so bad.
Cheers,
Felipe
Shaun you're right, in this pic it's not Sakineh, you're right she remains in jail waiting for 99 boosts.
In this pic is Vali Janfeshani or Sariyer Ebadi they were 2....
I wanted to post few cases of death by stoning in the world, specially the case of Doaa Khalil Assauad killed by death stoning in Irak in april 2007, she was 17 years old.... I couldn't post the picture of her death...
I meant, we are in the 21 th century not in the Middle ages, but we still see cases of death by stoning !
WHY ?!
Thanks,
Medicis
Shaun you're right, in this pic it's not Sakineh, you're right she remains in jail waiting for 99 boosts.
In this pic is Vali Janfeshani or Sariyer Ebadi they were 2....
I wanted to post few cases of death by stoning in the world, specially the case of Doaa Khalil Assauad killed by death stoning in Irak in april 2007, she was 17 years old.... I couldn't post the picture of her death...
I meant, we are in the 21 th century not in the Middle ages, but we still see cases of death by stoning !
WHY ?!
Thanks,
Medicis
Shaun you're right, in this pic it's not Sakineh, you're right she remains in jail waiting for 99 boosts.
In this pic is Vali Janfeshani or Sariyer Ebadi they were 2....
I wanted to post few cases of death by stoning in the world, specially the case of Doaa Khalil Assauad killed by death stoning in Irak in april 2007, she was 17 years old.... I couldn't post the picture of her death...
I meant, we are in the 21 th century not in the Middle ages, but we still see cases of death by stoning !
WHY ?!
Thanks,
Medicis
"WHY?!" I think the international community don't punish enought these extremist regimes!!!
It can be a great topic for a new tread.
"WHY?!" I think the international community don't punish enought these extremist regimes!!!
It can be a great topic for a new tread.
By the way this thread is so boring ...
@ Shaun feel free to post here my private message !
As you know we are in Democracy, So i have the right to express my opinion, i don't need any approval to stay or live this forum...
90 % of political threads are on ww1-ww2 AND guess what ? ISRAEL, so yes, this thread is going round in circles and boring.
@ Shaun feel free to post here my private message !
As you know we are in Democracy, So i have the right to express my opinion, i don't need any approval to stay or live this forum...
90 % of political threads are on ww1-ww2 AND guess what ? ISRAEL, so yes, this thread is going round in circles and boring.
@ Breshna looks like ?! it just means one of the first politician to talk bout this case WAS Elisabeth Badinter, i just introduced her, because every one knows who is her husband.
Yes boring... as i wrote we are turning in circles, because little girls are dies because they was borned GIRLS... there's so much subjects to talk about !
But i really appreciate if you could tell me more about your story.
@ Breshna looks like ?! it just means one of the first politician to talk bout this case WAS Elisabeth Badinter, i just introduced her, because every one knows who is her husband.
Yes boring... as i wrote we are turning in circles, because little girls are dies because they was borned GIRLS... there's so much subjects to talk about !
But i really appreciate if you could tell me more about your story.
@ Shaun are you serious ?!
Hahaha Shaun my question was cynical !
I repeat most, i meant 90 % of politics forums on Glocals are or was on ww 1, ww2 or Israel...any other checks, Shaun ?
Hahaha Shaun my question was cynical !
I repeat most, i meant 90 % of politics forums on Glocals are or was on ww 1, ww2 or Israel...any other checks, Shaun ?
Yes, apparently we went out of topic ,
just 1 question Shaun how many Political forums Glocals have ?
Yes, apparently we went out of topic ,
just 1 question Shaun how many Political forums Glocals have ?
Hahaha Shaun my question was cynical !
I repeat most, i meant 90 % of politics forums on Glocals are or was on ww 1, ww2 or Israel...any other checks, Shaun ?
.............so young and already cynical!!
maybe you should check your history books, you seem to be a bit confused about WW1, WW2 and Israel.
.............so young and already cynical!!
maybe you should check your history books, you seem to be a bit confused about WW1, WW2 and Israel.
I deleted a couple of replies cause they were out of line.
Let's keep this semi-civil and try to stay somewhat on topic.
Oded
I deleted a couple of replies cause they were out of line.
Let's keep this semi-civil and try to stay somewhat on topic.
Oded
Um, who says sharia law is acceptable to the US? On what basis do you make such a patently ridiculous claim?
"In the United States, these religious laws have no legally binding effect on U.S. citizens because religious laws cannot be adopted by federal, state, or local governments under the First Amendment." ...
"Foreign law generally references the law of other countries and is not binding on U.S. courts. It is distinguishable from international law, which generally refers to agreements between nations and laws of international bodies. International law may be legally binding (regardless of state attempts to restrict its consideration) in the United States if it has been properly adopted by the federal government pursuant to constitutional authority to conduct foreign affairs."
"Application of Religious Law in U.S. Courts: Selected Legal Issues"
US Congressional Research Service, May 18, 2011
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41824.pdf
In addition, for US government views on human rights in Iran, see:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/nea/154461.htm
Um, who says sharia law is acceptable to the US? On what basis do you make such a patently ridiculous claim?
"In the United States, these religious laws have no legally binding effect on U.S. citizens because religious laws cannot be adopted by federal, state, or local governments under the First Amendment." ...
"Foreign law generally references the law of other countries and is not binding on U.S. courts. It is distinguishable from international law, which generally refers to agreements between nations and laws of international bodies. International law may be legally binding (regardless of state attempts to restrict its consideration) in the United States if it has been properly adopted by the federal government pursuant to constitutional authority to conduct foreign affairs."
"Application of Religious Law in U.S. Courts: Selected Legal Issues"
US Congressional Research Service, May 18, 2011
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41824.pdf
In addition, for US government views on human rights in Iran, see:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/nea/154461.htm
Well, yes, of course... the other topic is that Obama -- the black man who was supposed to save the universe -- is a "war monger..."
Who created that audacious hopeful image that won the marketing award of the year for his campaign? Obama and crew! And now people hold him up to his promises. Nobel peace prize and more drone attacks in Af/Pak than under Bush actually opening up a new war front. No closing of Guantamano and reinstitution of military tribunals. No sentence reduction for John Walker Lindh who never fought US troops. Drone attacks in Yemen and Libya. The declared right to kill even American citizens in foreign countries without any judicial process. No support to Bahraini's home of the 5th Fleet. Attempts to block Aristedes' return (ousted by a US coup). Arming Colombia to the teeth and signing new base agreements with the same. Supporting the illegitimate regime that toppled Zalaya in Honduras. And that's just for starters.
I never expected Obama to save the universe and I think you are creating a straw man in advancing that. I saw him before the election for the intelligent, suave, charismatic con-man that he was and is - and I wasn't alone.
Yep, looks like a war monger! But so smooth you almost enjoy it.
Who created that audacious hopeful image that won the marketing award of the year for his campaign? Obama and crew! And now people hold him up to his promises. Nobel peace prize and more drone attacks in Af/Pak than under Bush actually opening up a new war front. No closing of Guantamano and reinstitution of military tribunals. No sentence reduction for John Walker Lindh who never fought US troops. Drone attacks in Yemen and Libya. The declared right to kill even American citizens in foreign countries without any judicial process. No support to Bahraini's home of the 5th Fleet. Attempts to block Aristedes' return (ousted by a US coup). Arming Colombia to the teeth and signing new base agreements with the same. Supporting the illegitimate regime that toppled Zalaya in Honduras. And that's just for starters.
I never expected Obama to save the universe and I think you are creating a straw man in advancing that. I saw him before the election for the intelligent, suave, charismatic con-man that he was and is - and I wasn't alone.
Yep, looks like a war monger! But so smooth you almost enjoy it.
Dear star,
Your post was adressed to "the handsome guy from Geneva" but I though I'll throw in a few comments.
......As for criticising Israeli policies, imagine Budisth or Christians or Jews deciding that part of Mecca of Medina was theirs because they lived there for sometime, can you imagine how the local population would react?
Precissely what Palestinians have been trying to tell the world for sixty years now. How come Jews from any country in the world have the right to "return" to Israel on the basis of having lived there 2,000 years ago and we do not have any rights in our own country?. You can very well imagine how they, the local population, would react to this.
Did they live there 2000 years ago? And when I say "they" I'm referring to some 'homogenous' group describe in various religious books of mythology written by various authours over centuries as opposed to the converted. Should we allow for a Catholic nation somewhere and expel the natives or at least deprive them of rights?
Did they live there 2000 years ago? And when I say "they" I'm referring to some 'homogenous' group describe in various religious books of mythology written by various authours over centuries as opposed to the converted. Should we allow for a Catholic nation somewhere and expel the natives or at least deprive them of rights?
Btw out of topic I highly recommend you all the interesting book “Psychology of Victimhood” by Dr Ofer Zur, it is a good summary of the victimhood syndrome.
"In claiming the status of victim and by assigning all blame to others, a person can achieve moral superiority while simultaneously disowning any responsibility for one's behaviour and its outcome. The victims 'merely' seek justice and fairness. If they become violent, it is only as a last resort, in self-defense. The victim stance is a powerful one. The victim is always morally right, neither responsible nor accountable, and forever entitled to sympathy."
and
"The victim's basic stance is that he or she:
Is not responsible for what happened.
Is always morally right.
Is not accountable.
Is forever entitled to sympathy.
Is justified in feeling moral indignation for being wronged."
Btw out of topic I highly recommend you all the interesting book “Psychology of Victimhood” by Dr Ofer Zur, it is a good summary of the victimhood syndrome.
"In claiming the status of victim and by assigning all blame to others, a person can achieve moral superiority while simultaneously disowning any responsibility for one's behaviour and its outcome. The victims 'merely' seek justice and fairness. If they become violent, it is only as a last resort, in self-defense. The victim stance is a powerful one. The victim is always morally right, neither responsible nor accountable, and forever entitled to sympathy."
and
"The victim's basic stance is that he or she:
Is not responsible for what happened.
Is always morally right.
Is not accountable.
Is forever entitled to sympathy.
Is justified in feeling moral indignation for being wronged."
FYI: Dr Ofer Zur, Ph.D., is a consultant, licensed psychologist, writer, forensic consultant and lecturer from Sonoma, CA. He is a pioneer in the development of the ethical and effective managed-care-free psychotherapy practice and is a prolific writer and researcher.
He was born and raised in Israel, he fought during the 1973 war as a lieutenant and a paratrooper in the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF).
http://www.zurinstitute.com/bio.html
In 1979 he left Israel for the U.S. for moral reasons. According to his autobiography he could not live with himself for being even passively involved in the immoral Israeli occupation of the Palestinians in West Bank and Lebanon.
FYI: Dr Ofer Zur, Ph.D., is a consultant, licensed psychologist, writer, forensic consultant and lecturer from Sonoma, CA. He is a pioneer in the development of the ethical and effective managed-care-free psychotherapy practice and is a prolific writer and researcher.
He was born and raised in Israel, he fought during the 1973 war as a lieutenant and a paratrooper in the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF).
http://www.zurinstitute.com/bio.html
In 1979 he left Israel for the U.S. for moral reasons. According to his autobiography he could not live with himself for being even passively involved in the immoral Israeli occupation of the Palestinians in West Bank and Lebanon.
Warning: Potentially Long and Boring. Also fact-based.
Posted below is the latest US report on human rights in Saudia Arabia. Does the UK issue such an annual report? Once again, though, I would ask whether you pose the same question about your own home nation's policies rather than simply focussing on the US.
And as much as I like driving, I would emphasize that the "right to drive" can take a back seat (ha!) to far more important rights, such as those listed in Section 6 of the US Department of State's annual human rights report, namely, "Discrimination, Societal Abuses, and Trafficking in Persons."
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/nea/154472.htm
"Discrimination against women was a significant problem. After her 2008 visit, the UN special rapporteur on violence against women, while acknowledging progress in the status of women and particularly women's access to education, noted the lack of women's autonomy, freedom of movement, and economic independence; discriminatory practices surrounding divorce and child custody; the absence of a law criminalizing violence against women; and difficulties preventing women from escaping abusive environments."
Finally, the US State Department has an Office of Global Women's Issues. [See here: http://www.state.gov/s/gwi/index.htm]
As of the beginning of the year, the Department's officials have issued nearly 60 statements on women-related concerns including this most recent one by Secretary of State Clinton on Sexual Violence in Libya, the Middle East and North Africa http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2011/06/166369.htm
I apologize (sorta) for sounding more than slightly irritated, but FFS, man (!), you could have picked a more essential right than driving, particularly as Saudi Arabia has no laws "criminalizing violence against women."
And by the way, I do support the right of women to drive...right over physically abusive bastards.
P.S. Were you aware that the UK has 1 woman supreme court justice (Lady Hale) [of 12] and she was appointed only in 2004? The rest are all white male Lords.
The first woman on the US supreme court justice (Sandra Day O'Connor) was appointed in 1981 and there are now 3 (Ginsburg, Sotomayor and Kagan). [President O has appointed 2 women; Sotomayor is the first US justice of Latino descent.])
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/mar/29/more-diverse-supreme-court-bench
Warning: Potentially Long and Boring. Also fact-based.
Posted below is the latest US report on human rights in Saudia Arabia. Does the UK issue such an annual report? Once again, though, I would ask whether you pose the same question about your own home nation's policies rather than simply focussing on the US.
And as much as I like driving, I would emphasize that the "right to drive" can take a back seat (ha!) to far more important rights, such as those listed in Section 6 of the US Department of State's annual human rights report, namely, "Discrimination, Societal Abuses, and Trafficking in Persons."
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2010/nea/154472.htm
"Discrimination against women was a significant problem. After her 2008 visit, the UN special rapporteur on violence against women, while acknowledging progress in the status of women and particularly women's access to education, noted the lack of women's autonomy, freedom of movement, and economic independence; discriminatory practices surrounding divorce and child custody; the absence of a law criminalizing violence against women; and difficulties preventing women from escaping abusive environments."
Finally, the US State Department has an Office of Global Women's Issues. [See here: http://www.state.gov/s/gwi/index.htm]
As of the beginning of the year, the Department's officials have issued nearly 60 statements on women-related concerns including this most recent one by Secretary of State Clinton on Sexual Violence in Libya, the Middle East and North Africa http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2011/06/166369.htm
I apologize (sorta) for sounding more than slightly irritated, but FFS, man (!), you could have picked a more essential right than driving, particularly as Saudi Arabia has no laws "criminalizing violence against women."
And by the way, I do support the right of women to drive...right over physically abusive bastards.
P.S. Were you aware that the UK has 1 woman supreme court justice (Lady Hale) [of 12] and she was appointed only in 2004? The rest are all white male Lords.
The first woman on the US supreme court justice (Sandra Day O'Connor) was appointed in 1981 and there are now 3 (Ginsburg, Sotomayor and Kagan). [President O has appointed 2 women; Sotomayor is the first US justice of Latino descent.])
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2011/mar/29/more-diverse-supreme-court-bench
"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who endlessly preaches the need for firm action against Iran to prevent it from acquiring nuclear arms, is not lifting a finger to stop Israeli companies and individuals indirectly trading with Iran."
Nor is he acting against international companies and corporations that operate in Iran, while maintaining huge contracts with Israeli companies - including state bodies like the Electric Corporation and Airport Authority."
Here is a summary of what US is doing... (just in case)
"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who endlessly preaches the need for firm action against Iran to prevent it from acquiring nuclear arms, is not lifting a finger to stop Israeli companies and individuals indirectly trading with Iran."
Nor is he acting against international companies and corporations that operate in Iran, while maintaining huge contracts with Israeli companies - including state bodies like the Electric Corporation and Airport Authority."
Here is a summary of what US is doing... (just in case)
http://www.sidley.com/SidleyUpdates/Detail.aspx?news=4825
Btw out of topic I highly recommend you all the interesting book “Psychology of Victimhood” by Dr Ofer Zur, it is a good summary of the victimhood syndrome.
"In claiming the status of victim and by assigning all blame to others, a person can achieve moral superiority while simultaneously disowning any responsibility for one's behaviour and its outcome. The victims 'merely' seek justice and fairness. If they become violent, it is only as a last resort, in self-defense. The victim stance is a powerful one. The victim is always morally right, neither responsible nor accountable, and forever entitled to sympathy."
and
"The victim's basic stance is that he or she:
Is not responsible for what happened.
Is always morally right.
Is not accountable.
Is forever entitled to sympathy.
Is justified in feeling moral indignation for being wronged."
Applicable to the Palestinian cause as well.
@ Breshna looks like ?! it just means one of the first politician to talk bout this case WAS Elisabeth Badinter, i just introduced her, because every one knows who is her husband.
Yes boring... as i wrote we are turning in circles, because little girls are dies because they was borned GIRLS... there's so much subjects to talk about !
But i really appreciate if you could tell me more about your story.
Indeed it is boring and we turn in circles when we talk about:
The Israeli Prime Minister and his political party,
The Jewish history on the separates persecution on the 15th century,
The Jewish people forced to convert to Islam by the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed IV (Sabbateans),
Qatar is ranked 19th and Israel 30th on the Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) according to Transparency International.
The Luc besson movie “Leon”
To correct a poster for spreading misinformation
Talking about Human rights
Talking about the Barbary of some ultra religeous against animals
Religious Law in U.S. Courts
The Dr Ofer Zur’s book “Psychology of Victimhood”
I think I am not so limited on general knowledge as some people do...
Indeed it is boring and we turn in circles when we talk about:
The Israeli Prime Minister and his political party,
The Jewish history on the separates persecution on the 15th century,
The Jewish people forced to convert to Islam by the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed IV (Sabbateans),
Qatar is ranked 19th and Israel 30th on the Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) according to Transparency International.
The Luc besson movie “Leon”
To correct a poster for spreading misinformation
Talking about Human rights
Talking about the Barbary of some ultra religeous against animals
Religious Law in U.S. Courts
The Dr Ofer Zur’s book “Psychology of Victimhood”
I think I am not so limited on general knowledge as some people do...
Applicable to the Palestinian cause as well.
For anyone Ariel.
...also applicable to those who advocate the ban on political forums.
It's pretty generic and although our politiquement-correct Felipe says it's off-topic, I find Post 205 fitting comments on topic & off-topic of almost every made-in-glocals thread. :)
...also applicable to those who advocate the ban on political forums.
It's pretty generic and although our politiquement-correct Felipe says it's off-topic, I find Post 205 fitting comments on topic & off-topic of almost every made-in-glocals thread. :)
Back to stoning to death...can I just point out that the punnishment does not exist in the Quran but is the world's oldest form of execution, followed by many religions (in ancient times). Some of the rather harsh punnishments in the Quran are so hedged in by clauses and difficult-to-prove-scenarios that scholars have argued that the point of the punnishment was simply to demonstrate the destructiveness of the crime. While the Quran stands as a guide book, it is not the absolute law of Islam...in fact there are points when it begs to be interpreted and for human beings to use their brains. Sadly for the majority of Muslims today, the interpretations are increasingly narrow and increasingly violent. The fact that it is practised today and called 'shariah law' is repugnant to me.
Back to stoning to death...can I just point out that the punnishment does not exist in the Quran but is the world's oldest form of execution, followed by many religions (in ancient times). Some of the rather harsh punnishments in the Quran are so hedged in by clauses and difficult-to-prove-scenarios that scholars have argued that the point of the punnishment was simply to demonstrate the destructiveness of the crime. While the Quran stands as a guide book, it is not the absolute law of Islam...in fact there are points when it begs to be interpreted and for human beings to use their brains. Sadly for the majority of Muslims today, the interpretations are increasingly narrow and increasingly violent. The fact that it is practised today and called 'shariah law' is repugnant to me.
For anyone Ariel.
Yes for anyone but I think the point being made was that the victm phenomenon makes people become blind to other peoples' plights.
Yes for anyone but I think the point being made was that the victm phenomenon makes people become blind to other peoples' plights.
And I want to just ask this question: what is our humanity worth if we cannot pity the poor, the displaced, the hurt, the ones who have lost their families and their homes. Surely, it does not matter if you are Jewish or Muslim or Christian. When another human being is in distress, everything in us that makes us human should assert itself and rise above power trips.
And I want to just ask this question: what is our humanity worth if we cannot pity the poor, the displaced, the hurt, the ones who have lost their families and their homes. Surely, it does not matter if you are Jewish or Muslim or Christian. When another human being is in distress, everything in us that makes us human should assert itself and rise above power trips.
Back to stoning to death...can I just point out that the punnishment does not exist in the Quran but is the world's oldest form of execution, followed by many religions (in ancient times). Some of the rather harsh punnishments in the Quran are so hedged in by clauses and difficult-to-prove-scenarios that scholars have argued that the point of the punnishment was simply to demonstrate the destructiveness of the crime. While the Quran stands as a guide book, it is not the absolute law of Islam...in fact there are points when it begs to be interpreted and for human beings to use their brains. Sadly for the majority of Muslims today, the interpretations are increasingly narrow and increasingly violent. The fact that it is practised today and called 'shariah law' is repugnant to me.
I would like to know whether anyone can recommend some readings on how the Quran got to be interpreted -- at least in some places -- in these ways.
I would like to know whether anyone can recommend some readings on how the Quran got to be interpreted -- at least in some places -- in these ways.
Translator...interesting question! Mostly by men and might I add mostly by staunch supporters of the patriarchal system!
Jokes aside..The Quran was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad 1500 years ago. The Prophet was an illiterate man which is why it was considered such a marvel...he recited the verses to his companions who bore witness to this marvel. However, here's the interesting bit: the quran was not written down till 50 years or so after it was all recited (and that took many years). So, the question that there was some human tampering is not out of place. Although if you say this to a staunch believer they will be horrified.
The Quran is supposed to be interpreted in relation to the life and actions of the Prophet (found in the Hadiths). However, we have another issue here: these were not written down till 200 odd years after the Prophet's death. They were transmitted orally, from believer to believer.
After that, the Ulema (group of scholars) would get together, deliberate and through the concept of 'Ijma' (consensus) and 'Ijtehad' (rational interpretation) interpret laws and verses according to the times. Of course all heavily male-dominated. In fact I don't know if there was a single Muslim woman involved in interpreting the Quran until recently (Fatima Mernissi is one of them today). Unfortunately, the concept of Ijtehad (reasoning) has died down in the Sunni world although it is still alive in the Shia world. Quran translations that I find useful are Ahmed Ali (his daughter, a muslim scholar helped him translate it), Muhammad Asad and Yusuf Ali.
Hope that helps...
So, very complex
Translator...interesting question! Mostly by men and might I add mostly by staunch supporters of the patriarchal system!
Jokes aside..The Quran was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad 1500 years ago. The Prophet was an illiterate man which is why it was considered such a marvel...he recited the verses to his companions who bore witness to this marvel. However, here's the interesting bit: the quran was not written down till 50 years or so after it was all recited (and that took many years). So, the question that there was some human tampering is not out of place. Although if you say this to a staunch believer they will be horrified.
The Quran is supposed to be interpreted in relation to the life and actions of the Prophet (found in the Hadiths). However, we have another issue here: these were not written down till 200 odd years after the Prophet's death. They were transmitted orally, from believer to believer.
After that, the Ulema (group of scholars) would get together, deliberate and through the concept of 'Ijma' (consensus) and 'Ijtehad' (rational interpretation) interpret laws and verses according to the times. Of course all heavily male-dominated. In fact I don't know if there was a single Muslim woman involved in interpreting the Quran until recently (Fatima Mernissi is one of them today). Unfortunately, the concept of Ijtehad (reasoning) has died down in the Sunni world although it is still alive in the Shia world. Quran translations that I find useful are Ahmed Ali (his daughter, a muslim scholar helped him translate it), Muhammad Asad and Yusuf Ali.
Hope that helps...
So, very complex
Well, I got the notion from you asking whether western allies are speaking out against sharia law--in which you specifically referenced the US. You then went on to ask about the US speaking out about driving laws.
Well, I got the notion from you asking whether western allies are speaking out against sharia law--in which you specifically referenced the US. You then went on to ask about the US speaking out about driving laws.
And I want to just ask this question: what is our humanity worth if we cannot pity the poor, the displaced, the hurt, the ones who have lost their families and their homes. Surely, it does not matter if you are Jewish or Muslim or Christian. When another human being is in distress, everything in us that makes us human should assert itself and rise above power trips.
I agree with your post. The victim phenomenon however, is not restricted to poor, hurt and those truly in need.
I guess Zur's theory is more vicious a cycle than that - pointing at those who can only continue to victimise themselves whatever maybe their circumstances, since 'need' doesn't end anywhere.
I agree with your post. The victim phenomenon however, is not restricted to poor, hurt and those truly in need.
I guess Zur's theory is more vicious a cycle than that - pointing at those who can only continue to victimise themselves whatever maybe their circumstances, since 'need' doesn't end anywhere.
Perhaps a tiny bit --- but it also leaves out the rest of Europe...but that is another topic altogether...
And again, while I may agree with you on Israel having contravened certain international laws, I also believe that there is not nearly enough emphasis in this debate upon the problems with Hamas and corruption in Fatah.
Perhaps a tiny bit --- but it also leaves out the rest of Europe...but that is another topic altogether...
And again, while I may agree with you on Israel having contravened certain international laws, I also believe that there is not nearly enough emphasis in this debate upon the problems with Hamas and corruption in Fatah.
I agree with your post. The victim phenomenon however, is not restricted to poor, hurt and those truly in need.
I guess Zur's theory is more vicious a cycle than that - pointing at those who can only continue to victimise themselves whatever maybe their circumstances, since 'need' doesn't end anywhere.
so true...
On the Moroccan kings’ speech about the new Constitution,
it said:
“Given the cohesion characterizing the various components of our unified, rich and diverse national identity - including the Arabic-Islamic, Berber, Saharan, African, Andalusian, Jewish and Mediterranean components”
http://www.moroccoboard.com/news/5302-morocco-text-of-kings-speech-english
I think it is the first time that an Arabic or Muslim country declared that the Jewish components is a part of its national identity.
A great example to follow!
On the Moroccan kings’ speech about the new Constitution,
it said:
“Given the cohesion characterizing the various components of our unified, rich and diverse national identity - including the Arabic-Islamic, Berber, Saharan, African, Andalusian, Jewish and Mediterranean components”
http://www.moroccoboard.com/news/5302-morocco-text-of-kings-speech-english
I think it is the first time that an Arabic or Muslim country declared that the Jewish components is a part of its national identity.
A great example to follow!
Haaretz 17.06.2011: The Israeli President Shimon Peres declared:
"Whoever accepts the basic principle of the 1967 lines will receive international support from the world. Whoever rejects it will lose the world."
So true...
Haaretz 17.06.2011: The Israeli President Shimon Peres declared:
"Whoever accepts the basic principle of the 1967 lines will receive international support from the world. Whoever rejects it will lose the world."
So true...
Applicable to the Palestinian cause as well.
Even it was out topic, it looks like you feel being got at.
You probably may often face this victimehood syndrome with yourself.
Even it was out topic, it looks like you feel being got at.
You probably may often face this victimehood syndrome with yourself.
On the Moroccan kings’ speech about the new Constitution,
it said:
“Given the cohesion characterizing the various components of our unified, rich and diverse national identity - including the Arabic-Islamic, Berber, Saharan, African, Andalusian, Jewish and Mediterranean components”
http://www.moroccoboard.com/news/5302-morocco-text-of-kings-speech-english
I think it is the first time that an Arabic or Muslim country declared that the Jewish components is a part of its national identity.
A great example to follow!
Interesting...although, I have to admit the simplified version (immediately below the article) is much better. Anyone who can proclaim his authority as divinely ordained in this day and age ain't got my support!
And please correct me if I'm wrong (history can be such a nebulous territory) but I'm pretty sure that Suleiman the Magnificent (Ottoman Empire) and Akbar the Great (Mughal Empire) were extremely inclusive of ALL their minorities.
Excerpt from Suleiman's letter to Pope Clement VII as an example:
THE FOLLOWING IS A TRANSLATION OF A LETTER SENT BY SULEYMAN TO HIS HOLINESS, POPE CLEMENT VII, THE MEDICI POPE, AT THE TIME A PRISONER IN CASTEL SANT'ANGELO, WHILE THE TROOPS OF HIS MOST IMPERIAL CATHOLIC MAJESTY,( KNOWN AS THE LANDSKNECHT), CHARLES THE V, SACKED ROME IN 1529.
TO THE REPRESENTATIVE OF JESUS IN ROME, HIS HOLINESS CLEMENT VII.
AN ABOMINABLE ACT HAS BEEN COMMITTED AGAINST YOUR PERSON AND AGAINST YOUR CHURCH.
IN THE NAME OF GOD, THE MERCIFUl, AND THE COMPASSIONATE: I, SULEYMAN, WILL SEND MY FLEET TO ANCONA AS A SIGN OF MY PROTECTION AFTER YOUR APPEAL.
I AM SULEYMAN CONQUEROR OF CONQUERORS, SLAVE OF GOD. PROTECTOR OF MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS AND JEWS. IN MY NAME, THE HUTBE IS READ IN MECCA AND MEDINA PRAYERS ARE RECITED FOR ME IN THE SYNAGOGUES AND CHURCHES OF JERUSALEM AND ISTANBUL. IN IRAN, CENTRAL ASIA AND MESOPOTAMIA, I AM THE SHAH. IN CHRISTIAN LANDS I AM CAESAR. IN EGYPT, MY ADMIRALS SEND FLEETS TO THE SEAS OF EUROPE, AFRICA AND INDIA. I AM HE, WHO TOOK THE CROWN AND THRONE OF HUNGARY AND GRANTED THEM TO A GIFTED SLAVE. THE VOLVODA PYOTR OF RUSSIA, RAISED HIS HEAD IN REVOLT BUT MY HORSE'S HOOF GROUND HIM INTO THE DUST THUS SPEAKS SULEYMANN. AS GOD IS HIS WITNESS.
Interesting...although, I have to admit the simplified version (immediately below the article) is much better. Anyone who can proclaim his authority as divinely ordained in this day and age ain't got my support!
And please correct me if I'm wrong (history can be such a nebulous territory) but I'm pretty sure that Suleiman the Magnificent (Ottoman Empire) and Akbar the Great (Mughal Empire) were extremely inclusive of ALL their minorities.
Excerpt from Suleiman's letter to Pope Clement VII as an example:
THE FOLLOWING IS A TRANSLATION OF A LETTER SENT BY SULEYMAN TO HIS HOLINESS, POPE CLEMENT VII, THE MEDICI POPE, AT THE TIME A PRISONER IN CASTEL SANT'ANGELO, WHILE THE TROOPS OF HIS MOST IMPERIAL CATHOLIC MAJESTY,( KNOWN AS THE LANDSKNECHT), CHARLES THE V, SACKED ROME IN 1529.
TO THE REPRESENTATIVE OF JESUS IN ROME, HIS HOLINESS CLEMENT VII.
AN ABOMINABLE ACT HAS BEEN COMMITTED AGAINST YOUR PERSON AND AGAINST YOUR CHURCH.
IN THE NAME OF GOD, THE MERCIFUl, AND THE COMPASSIONATE: I, SULEYMAN, WILL SEND MY FLEET TO ANCONA AS A SIGN OF MY PROTECTION AFTER YOUR APPEAL.
I AM SULEYMAN CONQUEROR OF CONQUERORS, SLAVE OF GOD. PROTECTOR OF MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS AND JEWS. IN MY NAME, THE HUTBE IS READ IN MECCA AND MEDINA PRAYERS ARE RECITED FOR ME IN THE SYNAGOGUES AND CHURCHES OF JERUSALEM AND ISTANBUL. IN IRAN, CENTRAL ASIA AND MESOPOTAMIA, I AM THE SHAH. IN CHRISTIAN LANDS I AM CAESAR. IN EGYPT, MY ADMIRALS SEND FLEETS TO THE SEAS OF EUROPE, AFRICA AND INDIA. I AM HE, WHO TOOK THE CROWN AND THRONE OF HUNGARY AND GRANTED THEM TO A GIFTED SLAVE. THE VOLVODA PYOTR OF RUSSIA, RAISED HIS HEAD IN REVOLT BUT MY HORSE'S HOOF GROUND HIM INTO THE DUST THUS SPEAKS SULEYMANN. AS GOD IS HIS WITNESS.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13865033
Mrs Clinton said they were "right" to press their demands in the ultra-conservative kingdom, in her first public comments on the issue....
"What these women are doing is brave, and what they are seeking is right," Mrs Clinton told reporters when asked to comment on the campaign."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13865033
Mrs Clinton said they were "right" to press their demands in the ultra-conservative kingdom, in her first public comments on the issue....
"What these women are doing is brave, and what they are seeking is right," Mrs Clinton told reporters when asked to comment on the campaign."
Also, although off topic.. the Saudis recently beheaded an Indonesian woman domestic worker who allegedly attacked her employer with a meat cleaver after he refused to let her return home according to the article posted below.....
Also, although off topic.. the Saudis recently beheaded an Indonesian woman domestic worker who allegedly attacked her employer with a meat cleaver after he refused to let her return home according to the article posted below.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13860097
Does anyone know on what grounds the Saudi's don't allow women to drive?
Does anyone know on what grounds the Saudi's don't allow women to drive?
Does anyone know on what grounds the Saudi's don't allow women to drive?
One interpretation :-)
If he wasn't serious, it would be hilarious.
A fine example of misinterpreting the Quranic injunction for modesty...the only body part it actually mentions that should be covered is the bosom. The rest is vague.."cover your beauty" etc. And if every other Muslim country has no problem with women driving then the Wahabis shouldn't either...but of course only they are the TRUE MUSLIMS, right?
If he wasn't serious, it would be hilarious.
A fine example of misinterpreting the Quranic injunction for modesty...the only body part it actually mentions that should be covered is the bosom. The rest is vague.."cover your beauty" etc. And if every other Muslim country has no problem with women driving then the Wahabis shouldn't either...but of course only they are the TRUE MUSLIMS, right?
Yes, it's getting lots of attention. A great deal more than all the cases of Indonesians horrribly abused by Saudis. But I understand how important the right to drive is for some people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7415290.stm
I do not support the death penalty.
Of course, you rightly bring up the fact that the US has executed more people than the Saudis. However, if you compare the percentages, given the US population, the Saudi percentage is much higher. We also don't behead people.
Yes, it's getting lots of attention. A great deal more than all the cases of Indonesians horrribly abused by Saudis. But I understand how important the right to drive is for some people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7415290.stm
I do not support the death penalty.
Of course, you rightly bring up the fact that the US has executed more people than the Saudis. However, if you compare the percentages, given the US population, the Saudi percentage is much higher. We also don't behead people.
Yes but he is also saying (inadvertantly) that men are animals, unable to control themselves! Apparently a man will, at the sight of the face of a woman he fancies, either try to have consensual sex with her and if he can't, rape her!
Yes but he is also saying (inadvertantly) that men are animals, unable to control themselves! Apparently a man will, at the sight of the face of a woman he fancies, either try to have consensual sex with her and if he can't, rape her!
Yes, it's getting lots of attention. A great deal more than all the cases of Indonesians horrribly abused by Saudis. But I understand how important the right to drive is for some people.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7415290.stm
I do not support the death penalty.
Of course, you rightly bring up the fact that the US has executed more people than the Saudis. However, if you compare the percentages, given the US population, the Saudi percentage is much higher. We also don't behead people.
I agree that violence against human beings trumps the right to drive.
Don't like killing people...but if you have a choice between a slow death or a really quick one, beheading is pretty quick. (And please don't, anyone, read into this that I support executions!)
I agree that violence against human beings trumps the right to drive.
Don't like killing people...but if you have a choice between a slow death or a really quick one, beheading is pretty quick. (And please don't, anyone, read into this that I support executions!)
http://www.migrant-rights.org/2011/04/05/saudi-justice-maid-torturer-acquitted/
Yes but he is also saying (inadvertantly) that men are animals, unable to control themselves! Apparently a man will, at the sight of the face of a woman he fancies, either try to have consensual sex with her and if he can't, rape her!
Some people think that all of humankind thinks like them, if not it should. Because that's the way these folks interpret current society.
Men are animals, but it's always the woman's fault. Let's keep it that way, else we'll have to learn how to make tea and tie our own shoelaces.
- Some crazy wise guy called Anonymous.
Should we move this to another thread? I think we're way out of Gaza & Israel, flew over Jordan & landed in some desert.
Some people think that all of humankind thinks like them, if not it should. Because that's the way these folks interpret current society.
Men are animals, but it's always the woman's fault. Let's keep it that way, else we'll have to learn how to make tea and tie our own shoelaces.
- Some crazy wise guy called Anonymous.
Should we move this to another thread? I think we're way out of Gaza & Israel, flew over Jordan & landed in some desert.
Yes I was thinking the same! 'Islam and Women' -- inflammatory enough?
Indonesian migrant worker Ruyati binti Sapubi, 54, was executed after she was convicted of murdering her Saudi employer, Khairiya bint Hamid Mijlid, with a meat cleaver.
As a result Indonesia decided to suspend sending domestic helpers to Saudi Arabia after the beheading of a maid convicted of murdering her Saudi employer.
Indonesian migrant worker Ruyati binti Sapubi, 54, was executed after she was convicted of murdering her Saudi employer, Khairiya bint Hamid Mijlid, with a meat cleaver.
As a result Indonesia decided to suspend sending domestic helpers to Saudi Arabia after the beheading of a maid convicted of murdering her Saudi employer.
http://www.oas.org/juridico/english/sigs/a-53.html
You could have asked the same question about Canada and the other nations which have not ratified it either.This is even more curious because Canada abolished the death penalty over 20 years ago. Why hold the US to a higher standard than its northern neighbor?
Changing US laws on the state and federal level are much more important than ratifying international treaties. We have citizens who forgo high-paying jobs in law firms, corporations and international organizations in order to work on death penalty cases.
It's fine to hate the US government; it's even better though to be logically and morally consistent.
http://www.oas.org/juridico/english/sigs/a-53.html
You could have asked the same question about Canada and the other nations which have not ratified it either.This is even more curious because Canada abolished the death penalty over 20 years ago. Why hold the US to a higher standard than its northern neighbor?
Changing US laws on the state and federal level are much more important than ratifying international treaties. We have citizens who forgo high-paying jobs in law firms, corporations and international organizations in order to work on death penalty cases.
It's fine to hate the US government; it's even better though to be logically and morally consistent.
Indonesian migrant worker Ruyati binti Sapubi, 54, was executed after she was convicted of murdering her Saudi employer, Khairiya bint Hamid Mijlid, with a meat cleaver.
As a result Indonesia decided to suspend sending domestic helpers to Saudi Arabia after the beheading of a maid convicted of murdering her Saudi employer.
According to some accounts, it is possible there were extenuating circumstances (namely, abuse of the maid) leading to the killing. In addition, Sapubi's family is contemplating suing the Indonesian government for its apparent lack of legal assistance to the accused. The accused's family was not told of the execution until the day after. In this way, the Saudi government avoided any international pressure to commute the sentence.
"This past April, a Saudi woman, convicted of beating and torturing an Indonesian maid, got her conviction appealed, sparking protests in Indonesia." http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_w26/saudi-indonesian-workers.html
I couldn't care less about driving rights for rich women who abuse their maids.
According to some accounts, it is possible there were extenuating circumstances (namely, abuse of the maid) leading to the killing. In addition, Sapubi's family is contemplating suing the Indonesian government for its apparent lack of legal assistance to the accused. The accused's family was not told of the execution until the day after. In this way, the Saudi government avoided any international pressure to commute the sentence.
"This past April, a Saudi woman, convicted of beating and torturing an Indonesian maid, got her conviction appealed, sparking protests in Indonesia." http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_w26/saudi-indonesian-workers.html
I couldn't care less about driving rights for rich women who abuse their maids.
Zionism has achieved its goal: an internationally recognized Jewish state whose security is guaranteed by the First Army in the Middle East, with several hundred nuclear warheads, a high-powered lobby and unconditional support of the United States.
What we are witnessing since 67, it is not Zionism. This is the colonization of divine right, the denial of other people to exist. Now it is the Palestinians who are fighting for their survival. The roles of torturer and victim are reversed a long time ago, and it is the duty of every human being to defend the just cause of the Palestinian people.
The vast majority of states will vote for a Palestinian state next September at the UN, and the few who oppose it will be covered with shame and ridicule to defend the anachronistic cause of the immoral and illegal Israeli settlement.
The Israelis could avoid being on the bench of infamy by agreeing to return to the '67 borders as part of a negotiated plan, but it's a safe bet that the people who rule Israel will play the politics of the worst, as always , unable to resist their impulses colonialists from another age. And take the risk to isolate Israel as never before.
Zionism has achieved its goal: an internationally recognized Jewish state whose security is guaranteed by the First Army in the Middle East, with several hundred nuclear warheads, a high-powered lobby and unconditional support of the United States.
What we are witnessing since 67, it is not Zionism. This is the colonization of divine right, the denial of other people to exist. Now it is the Palestinians who are fighting for their survival. The roles of torturer and victim are reversed a long time ago, and it is the duty of every human being to defend the just cause of the Palestinian people.
The vast majority of states will vote for a Palestinian state next September at the UN, and the few who oppose it will be covered with shame and ridicule to defend the anachronistic cause of the immoral and illegal Israeli settlement.
The Israelis could avoid being on the bench of infamy by agreeing to return to the '67 borders as part of a negotiated plan, but it's a safe bet that the people who rule Israel will play the politics of the worst, as always , unable to resist their impulses colonialists from another age. And take the risk to isolate Israel as never before.
A Committee of the Israeli Knesset (Parliament) passed a first draft of a law that will require that Palestinians whose homes are destroyed by Israeli forces pay the Israeli government for the demolition costs.
The law will now be passed to the full Knesset for a final reading, where it is expected to pass due to the current makeup of the Knesset.
Since 1967, Israeli forces have demolished 24,813 Palestinian homes. 90% of these homes were destroyed for ‘administrative’ reasons – because they either lacked a permit or were in an area designated for expansion by the Israeli military. No permits have been issued by Israeli authorities for Palestinian construction in the Occupied Territories since 1967. The remaining 10% of the demolitions have been ‘punitive’ demolitions of the homes of Palestinians accused of attacking Israel, or of their families’ homes.
In the first five months of 2011, Israeli forces demolished more Palestinian homes than in the entire year of 2010, rendering homeless 706 Palestinians, including 341 minors. This is according to the most recent numbers released by the Israeli Civil Administration.
If the law passes the full Knesset, any Palestinian whose home is destroyed by the Israeli military will have to pay thousands of dollars to cover the cost of the demolition. Already, many Palestinian homeowners, mainly in Jerusalem, have been forced to pay for the forced demolition of their homes.
Israeli forces use US-made armored D9 bulldozers, manufactured by the Caterpillar Corporation, to carry out the demolition of Palestinian homes. This has led US and international activists to call for a boycott of the Caterpillar corporation, saying that the use of the bulldozers to demolish Palestinian homes is a violation of international law and the Fourth Geneva Convention.
A Committee of the Israeli Knesset (Parliament) passed a first draft of a law that will require that Palestinians whose homes are destroyed by Israeli forces pay the Israeli government for the demolition costs.
The law will now be passed to the full Knesset for a final reading, where it is expected to pass due to the current makeup of the Knesset.
Since 1967, Israeli forces have demolished 24,813 Palestinian homes. 90% of these homes were destroyed for ‘administrative’ reasons – because they either lacked a permit or were in an area designated for expansion by the Israeli military. No permits have been issued by Israeli authorities for Palestinian construction in the Occupied Territories since 1967. The remaining 10% of the demolitions have been ‘punitive’ demolitions of the homes of Palestinians accused of attacking Israel, or of their families’ homes.
In the first five months of 2011, Israeli forces demolished more Palestinian homes than in the entire year of 2010, rendering homeless 706 Palestinians, including 341 minors. This is according to the most recent numbers released by the Israeli Civil Administration.
If the law passes the full Knesset, any Palestinian whose home is destroyed by the Israeli military will have to pay thousands of dollars to cover the cost of the demolition. Already, many Palestinian homeowners, mainly in Jerusalem, have been forced to pay for the forced demolition of their homes.
Israeli forces use US-made armored D9 bulldozers, manufactured by the Caterpillar Corporation, to carry out the demolition of Palestinian homes. This has led US and international activists to call for a boycott of the Caterpillar corporation, saying that the use of the bulldozers to demolish Palestinian homes is a violation of international law and the Fourth Geneva Convention.
Is it the Zionism?
Just scrolling down the forum threads.
Quick question.
Does anyone here give a damn about any other global situation besides what is happening in Gaza?
Yes. The people of the world, together with the United Nations, also worries about Israeli government violation of Lebanon air space, illegal attacks to Syria, and the complete violation of many countries sovereignty....
And the israeli governement, acting often as a terrorist state, has nuclear programs, which it hides to the world, despite many UN demands to show it...
Simply unacceptable....
Yes. The people of the world, together with the United Nations, also worries about Israeli government violation of Lebanon air space, illegal attacks to Syria, and the complete violation of many countries sovereignty....
And the israeli governement, acting often as a terrorist state, has nuclear programs, which it hides to the world, despite many UN demands to show it...
Simply unacceptable....
No, the people of the world do agree with Israel that they have the right to attack Syria even by violating Lebanese air space and know, that because Israel is de jure (and as it is shown by the attacks also de facto) still at war with Syria and Lebanon.
Despite claims to the terroristic nature of Israel, let me quote the late Christopher Hitchens who said, that "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
Same goes to the claims of Juan D, I would challenge him to show proof, that the UN has the right for such claims. As Israel has not signed the NPT, the UN can do fuck all.
That is the reason, why the UN can inspect Iranian sites, but not those in Israel.
No, the people of the world do agree with Israel that they have the right to attack Syria even by violating Lebanese air space and know, that because Israel is de jure (and as it is shown by the attacks also de facto) still at war with Syria and Lebanon.
Despite claims to the terroristic nature of Israel, let me quote the late Christopher Hitchens who said, that "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
Same goes to the claims of Juan D, I would challenge him to show proof, that the UN has the right for such claims. As Israel has not signed the NPT, the UN can do fuck all.
That is the reason, why the UN can inspect Iranian sites, but not those in Israel.
The United Nations tells Israel to let in nuclear inspectors
Israel represents a real threat tot the region, commiting gross human right violations and war crimes for decades. The Israli government, acting often as a "terrorist state" must be stopped by all means in its race for weapons of mass destructions and nuclear bombs plans.
For this reason, the world, meeting at the United Nations general assembly has overwhelmingly approved a resolution calling on Israel to open its nuclear programme for inspection. The resolution, approved by a vote of 174 to six with six abstentions, calls on Israel to join the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) "WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY" and open its nuclear facilities to inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Those voting against were Israel, the US (complices in the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people), Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia and Palau.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/04/un-tells-israel-nuclear-inspectors
The United Nations tells Israel to let in nuclear inspectors
Israel represents a real threat tot the region, commiting gross human right violations and war crimes for decades. The Israli government, acting often as a "terrorist state" must be stopped by all means in its race for weapons of mass destructions and nuclear bombs plans.
For this reason, the world, meeting at the United Nations general assembly has overwhelmingly approved a resolution calling on Israel to open its nuclear programme for inspection. The resolution, approved by a vote of 174 to six with six abstentions, calls on Israel to join the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) "WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY" and open its nuclear facilities to inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Those voting against were Israel, the US (complices in the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people), Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia and Palau.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/04/un-tells-israel-nuclear-inspectors
As long as Israel is not part of the NPT, they don't have to open their nuclear facilities to other countries or the UN. The UN has no jurisdiction, they can bark as long as they like.
Again, you continue your claim of an Palestinian genocide even though there are no facts supporting your claims.
As long as Israel is not part of the NPT, they don't have to open their nuclear facilities to other countries or the UN. The UN has no jurisdiction, they can bark as long as they like.
Again, you continue your claim of an Palestinian genocide even though there are no facts supporting your claims.
The Israli government, acting often as a "terrorist state", commiting gross human right violations and war crimes for decades, represents a real threat tot the region. It must now be stopped by all means in its race for weapons of mass destructions and nuclear bombs plans.
For this reason, the world, meeting at the United Nations general assembly has overwhelmingly approved a resolution calling on Israel to open its nuclear programme for inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
The Israli government, acting often as a "terrorist state", commiting gross human right violations and war crimes for decades, represents a real threat tot the region. It must now be stopped by all means in its race for weapons of mass destructions and nuclear bombs plans.
For this reason, the world, meeting at the United Nations general assembly has overwhelmingly approved a resolution calling on Israel to open its nuclear programme for inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Israel already has nukes, so why must it be "stopped by all means in its race for weapons of mass destructions and nuclear bombs plans."
Just anonther retarded post by our favourite Juan D.
Israel already has nukes, so why must it be "stopped by all means in its race for weapons of mass destructions and nuclear bombs plans."
Just anonther retarded post by our favourite Juan D.
The Israli government, acting often as a "terrorist state", commiting gross human right violations and war crimes for decades, represents a real threat to the region. It must now be stopped by all means in its race for weapons of mass destructions and nuclear bombs plans.
For this reason, the world, meeting at the United Nations general assembly has overwhelmingly approved a resolution calling on Israel to open its nuclear programme for inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
The Israli government, acting often as a "terrorist state", commiting gross human right violations and war crimes for decades, represents a real threat to the region. It must now be stopped by all means in its race for weapons of mass destructions and nuclear bombs plans.
For this reason, the world, meeting at the United Nations general assembly has overwhelmingly approved a resolution calling on Israel to open its nuclear programme for inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Now your lates post is more or less an copy of your post of May 25th. Do you have an urgent need just to be the last poster on every thread regarding Israel?
I don't expect an honest answer, not even an answer, as you were never either willing or able to supply one, you just look like a very silly person and make those in opposition of the Jewish state look like retards just in association with you.
So please stop!
Now your lates post is more or less an copy of your post of May 25th. Do you have an urgent need just to be the last poster on every thread regarding Israel?
I don't expect an honest answer, not even an answer, as you were never either willing or able to supply one, you just look like a very silly person and make those in opposition of the Jewish state look like retards just in association with you.
So please stop!
The criminal israeli governement is a danger for the world, and must be stopped in its violations of international law, as well as their plans to develop nuclear weapons. It's a fact.
That's why the world, meeting at the United Naitons, voted a resolution, approved by a vote of 174 to six with six abstentions, calls on Israel to join the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) "WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY" and open its nuclear facilities to inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
But there are always complices to the criminal government of Israel :the US (complices in the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people), which voted against the world almost unanimous point of view..
When will the criminal acts of the israeli goverment be finally stopped?
The criminal israeli governement is a danger for the world, and must be stopped in its violations of international law, as well as their plans to develop nuclear weapons. It's a fact.
That's why the world, meeting at the United Naitons, voted a resolution, approved by a vote of 174 to six with six abstentions, calls on Israel to join the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) "WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY" and open its nuclear facilities to inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency.
But there are always complices to the criminal government of Israel :the US (complices in the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people), which voted against the world almost unanimous point of view..
When will the criminal acts of the israeli goverment be finally stopped?
As many times you put forward your retarded claims of a genocide of the Palestinian people, I will ask what genocide. There is no genocide of the Palestinian people.
Again let me quote the late Christopher Hitchens who said, that "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
As you bring no evidence for an genocide, we can dismiss such claims.
The UN can bitch all they like, but there is no way in hell, that one of its members could be pressed to signing the NPT.
In reality, a place you seem to be quite unfamiliar with, people like you with your unfounded claims and repetitions of UN resolutions do more harm to the Palesitinian cause than good.
As many times you put forward your retarded claims of a genocide of the Palestinian people, I will ask what genocide. There is no genocide of the Palestinian people.
Again let me quote the late Christopher Hitchens who said, that "what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
As you bring no evidence for an genocide, we can dismiss such claims.
The UN can bitch all they like, but there is no way in hell, that one of its members could be pressed to signing the NPT.
In reality, a place you seem to be quite unfamiliar with, people like you with your unfounded claims and repetitions of UN resolutions do more harm to the Palesitinian cause than good.
I am concerned about Israel violations of the international law... just to mention another recent violation: UN Security Council Resolution 1701 halted Israel's 2006 assault on Lebanon. Israel has violated Lebanon’s airspace daily since then.
This month (May 2013), the UNITED NATIONS PEACEKEEPING FORCE HAS AGAIN COMPLAINED AGAINST ISRAEL FOR VIOLATIONS OF LEBANON AIRSPACE.
I am concerned about Israel violations of the international law... just to mention another recent violation: UN Security Council Resolution 1701 halted Israel's 2006 assault on Lebanon. Israel has violated Lebanon’s airspace daily since then.
This month (May 2013), the UNITED NATIONS PEACEKEEPING FORCE HAS AGAIN COMPLAINED AGAINST ISRAEL FOR VIOLATIONS OF LEBANON AIRSPACE.
Again, you seem to ignore the difference between international law and UN resolutions. Hint: UN resolutions are not international law.
Second hint: Writing a claim in bold letters does not give it more validity.
Thirdly, just reusing text modules without answering questions or offering supporting evidence does not equate to a good arguement.
Again, you seem to ignore the difference between international law and UN resolutions. Hint: UN resolutions are not international law.
Second hint: Writing a claim in bold letters does not give it more validity.
Thirdly, just reusing text modules without answering questions or offering supporting evidence does not equate to a good arguement.
I am very much concerned about the israeli government SYSTEMATIC AND GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS. We have a moral and human duty to stop the criminal state of Israel to continue killing people in the arabic world.
But the Israel regime doesn't care at all about the dozens of United Nations (UN) resolutions condemning it for its infamous crimes.
I quote part of this UN resolution : "Gravely concerned at the widespread, systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS PERPETRATED BY THE ISRAELI OCCUPYING POWER, IN PARTICULAR MASS KILLINGS, in particular mass killings and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, FLAGRANT VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY"
Source : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF /0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
And there is still some peope which refuse (for any unknown obscure reason) to face and see the thuth : Israel is responsible of gross human right violations, and violation of international humanitarian law : facts condemned many times by the United Nations. But Israel doesn't care about international law... sad to say
I am very much concerned about the israeli government SYSTEMATIC AND GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS. We have a moral and human duty to stop the criminal state of Israel to continue killing people in the arabic world.
But the Israel regime doesn't care at all about the dozens of United Nations (UN) resolutions condemning it for its infamous crimes.
I quote part of this UN resolution : "Gravely concerned at the widespread, systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS PERPETRATED BY THE ISRAELI OCCUPYING POWER, IN PARTICULAR MASS KILLINGS, in particular mass killings and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, FLAGRANT VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY"
Source : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF /0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
And there is still some peope which refuse (for any unknown obscure reason) to face and see the thuth : Israel is responsible of gross human right violations, and violation of international humanitarian law : facts condemned many times by the United Nations. But Israel doesn't care about international law... sad to say
Could you please give a working link?
It is showing, that you write about the "Israel (sic) regime" whilst Israel, for all it faults it has, is a much more democratic state than Lebanon and Syria, the countries you seem to support. Plus you even use the term "criminal state of Israel" which is showing your true colours. Usually such claims come from countries which have far worse Human rights situation than Israel.
Further, I never deny that Israel is guilty of some Human Rights violations. Even Switzerland has its problems. But I don't see it is justified to claim "Israel is responsible of gross human right violations", plus, the UN is not a good judge of ethics, as a lot of its countries are neither democracies or have a worse human rights-record than Israel.
Could you please give a working link?
It is showing, that you write about the "Israel (sic) regime" whilst Israel, for all it faults it has, is a much more democratic state than Lebanon and Syria, the countries you seem to support. Plus you even use the term "criminal state of Israel" which is showing your true colours. Usually such claims come from countries which have far worse Human rights situation than Israel.
Further, I never deny that Israel is guilty of some Human Rights violations. Even Switzerland has its problems. But I don't see it is justified to claim "Israel is responsible of gross human right violations", plus, the UN is not a good judge of ethics, as a lot of its countries are neither democracies or have a worse human rights-record than Israel.
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
What are my "colors"? Well I don't defend a criminal state, as some people do.
My view is simply the same as the vast majority of the world : the government of Israel is violating the international public law for decades. What can the international community do, so that the State of Israel finally respects the international public law?
For much less than that we've attented to invasions from the International community...
And we all know that If it was not for the US veto, complices of the Israeli attrocities, the israeli goverment would have cessed its war crimes and gross violations of international law...
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
What are my "colors"? Well I don't defend a criminal state, as some people do.
My view is simply the same as the vast majority of the world : the government of Israel is violating the international public law for decades. What can the international community do, so that the State of Israel finally respects the international public law?
For much less than that we've attented to invasions from the International community...
And we all know that If it was not for the US veto, complices of the Israeli attrocities, the israeli goverment would have cessed its war crimes and gross violations of international law...
What your colours are? You are clearly antisemitic in the modern meaning i.e. anti-Jewish.
You critisize Israel in extreme terms, talk about genocides even though there is none happening. You talk about war crimes without bringing evidence of such. I even might agree with some of your cases you might present, but at least at the moment, say in 2013, I don't see Israel guilty of any war crimes.
You single out Israel and seem to think Israel should follow a higher standard than the other countries. I asked you directly and do it again in this thread, should China and Turkey also be boycotted because they occupy foreign territory?
Then look at those countries that voted for your UN resolution against Israel: Bangladesh, Bhutan, China, Cuba, India, Indonesia, Madagascar, Mauritius, Morocco, Niger, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Senegal, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tunisia, Venezuela.
No offence if we have any citizen of those countries on glocals, but having most of those countries have the impudence to lecture Israel about human rights whilst having a far lower level of human rights in their own countries is contemptible.
Then about the US Veto. Israel would survive, even if an US veto would not exist. I don't see US, France and GB attack Israel, even if there were a UN mandate. Russia and China don't have the naval capabilities to act and the other countries in the region have tried again and again to destroy the Jewish state and have failed over and over again.
Whilst Israel is updating their army and has nukes, the armies of the Arab nations are decaying. After the cold war has ended, Russia (and China) want to get paid for their weapons and most Arab states just don't have the money to buy weapons nor do their armies show the professionalism that the IDF has.
Just look at the sorry state of the Syrian army which isn't able to fight off some few thousand untrained and underequiped rebels...
"Well I don't defend a criminal state, as some people do." This probably is targeted at me. I am only partly defending Israel.
I am like a lawyer defending a thief (I think israel is occupying foreign territory and is treating the citizens of that territory badly. I also think that Judaism is a racist religion unlike Islam and Christianity and that the Jewish state Israel is also partly tainted by said racism). But you claim also, that the thief is a murder and pedophile and has a psychotic personality.
Again, if you would tone down your attacks towards Israel to what Israel is actually doing and not what you and some Arab state claim that it is doing, we could agree, but you just seem to care more about opinions (UN resolutions) than actual facts.
What your colours are? You are clearly antisemitic in the modern meaning i.e. anti-Jewish.
You critisize Israel in extreme terms, talk about genocides even though there is none happening. You talk about war crimes without bringing evidence of such. I even might agree with some of your cases you might present, but at least at the moment, say in 2013, I don't see Israel guilty of any war crimes.
You single out Israel and seem to think Israel should follow a higher standard than the other countries. I asked you directly and do it again in this thread, should China and Turkey also be boycotted because they occupy foreign territory?
Then look at those countries that voted for your UN resolution against Israel: Bangladesh, Bhutan, China, Cuba, India, Indonesia, Madagascar, Mauritius, Morocco, Niger, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Senegal, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tunisia, Venezuela.
No offence if we have any citizen of those countries on glocals, but having most of those countries have the impudence to lecture Israel about human rights whilst having a far lower level of human rights in their own countries is contemptible.
Then about the US Veto. Israel would survive, even if an US veto would not exist. I don't see US, France and GB attack Israel, even if there were a UN mandate. Russia and China don't have the naval capabilities to act and the other countries in the region have tried again and again to destroy the Jewish state and have failed over and over again.
Whilst Israel is updating their army and has nukes, the armies of the Arab nations are decaying. After the cold war has ended, Russia (and China) want to get paid for their weapons and most Arab states just don't have the money to buy weapons nor do their armies show the professionalism that the IDF has.
Just look at the sorry state of the Syrian army which isn't able to fight off some few thousand untrained and underequiped rebels...
"Well I don't defend a criminal state, as some people do." This probably is targeted at me. I am only partly defending Israel.
I am like a lawyer defending a thief (I think israel is occupying foreign territory and is treating the citizens of that territory badly. I also think that Judaism is a racist religion unlike Islam and Christianity and that the Jewish state Israel is also partly tainted by said racism). But you claim also, that the thief is a murder and pedophile and has a psychotic personality.
Again, if you would tone down your attacks towards Israel to what Israel is actually doing and not what you and some Arab state claim that it is doing, we could agree, but you just seem to care more about opinions (UN resolutions) than actual facts.
The United Nations resolutions are based on concrete facts, and in depth studies, where the most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law, international conventions express the world opinion about what the goverment of israel is doing.
The United Nations has expressed the position of the world, being (I quote) : : "Gravely concerned at the widespread, systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS PERPETRATED BY THE ISRAELI OCCUPYING POWER, IN PARTICULAR MASS KILLINGS, in particular mass killings and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, FLAGRANT VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY"
Source : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
But the Israeli government doesn't care at all about the dozens of United Nations (UN) resolutions, where the entire world condems it for its infamous crimes.
The United Nations resolutions are based on concrete facts, and in depth studies, where the most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law, international conventions express the world opinion about what the goverment of israel is doing.
The United Nations has expressed the position of the world, being (I quote) : : "Gravely concerned at the widespread, systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS PERPETRATED BY THE ISRAELI OCCUPYING POWER, IN PARTICULAR MASS KILLINGS, in particular mass killings and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, FLAGRANT VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY"
Source : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
But the Israeli government doesn't care at all about the dozens of United Nations (UN) resolutions, where the entire world condems it for its infamous crimes.
Juan D, your latest statement, that "United Nations resolutions are based on concrete facts, and in depth studies, where the most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law" is complete and utterly bullshit. Sorry, no way am I going to sugarcoat that.
If you ever in your life had seen a in depth study of a conflict or even an aspect of a smaller conflict, you would realise, that the wording is extremely different than an UN resolution. Plus you would see a huge annex where the sources of the claims in the study would be listed.
How countries like Pakistan and China even have a seat in a human rights commity is incomprehensible. Like to put the fox in charge of the henhouse!
Juan D, your latest statement, that "United Nations resolutions are based on concrete facts, and in depth studies, where the most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law" is complete and utterly bullshit. Sorry, no way am I going to sugarcoat that.
If you ever in your life had seen a in depth study of a conflict or even an aspect of a smaller conflict, you would realise, that the wording is extremely different than an UN resolution. Plus you would see a huge annex where the sources of the claims in the study would be listed.
How countries like Pakistan and China even have a seat in a human rights commity is incomprehensible. Like to put the fox in charge of the henhouse!
Isn't anyone surprised that there are still some people refusing to see the truth, and to accept some facts ? For instance the fact that the israeli governement must stop its infamous war crimes, gross violations of humanitarian law? Israel reprensents a real threat to the region for decades, and the whole world agrees on that.
The United Nations resolutions are based on concrete facts, and in depth studies, where the most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law, international conventions express the world opinion about what the goverment of israel is really doing.
The United Nations has expressed the position of the world, being (I quote) : : "Gravely concerned at the widespread, systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS PERPETRATED BY THE ISRAELI OCCUPYING POWER, IN PARTICULAR MASS KILLINGS, in particular mass killings and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, FLAGRANT VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY"
Source : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
Isn't anyone surprised that there are still some people refusing to see the truth, and to accept some facts ? For instance the fact that the israeli governement must stop its infamous war crimes, gross violations of humanitarian law? Israel reprensents a real threat to the region for decades, and the whole world agrees on that.
The United Nations resolutions are based on concrete facts, and in depth studies, where the most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law, international conventions express the world opinion about what the goverment of israel is really doing.
The United Nations has expressed the position of the world, being (I quote) : : "Gravely concerned at the widespread, systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS PERPETRATED BY THE ISRAELI OCCUPYING POWER, IN PARTICULAR MASS KILLINGS, in particular mass killings and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, FLAGRANT VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY"
Source : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
Juan D, master of copy paste, antisemitic, pathetic, retarded.
I am very surprised that some people on this forum consider "antisemitic" the fact of quoting the point of view of the United Nations (UN) resolutions, for instance the dozen of times it has condemned the israel government for its infamous war crimes and gross violations of humanitarian law, which continue nowadays in May 2013...
It's certainly a way to refuse to admit and see the truth, based on facts?
I am very surprised that some people on this forum consider "antisemitic" the fact of quoting the point of view of the United Nations (UN) resolutions, for instance the dozen of times it has condemned the israel government for its infamous war crimes and gross violations of humanitarian law, which continue nowadays in May 2013...
It's certainly a way to refuse to admit and see the truth, based on facts?
It is not antisemitic to quote UN resolutions. Just if you only single out the Jewish nation and ignore similiar and worse crimes by other nations like you constantly do.
It is not antisemitic to quote UN resolutions. Just if you only single out the Jewish nation and ignore similiar and worse crimes by other nations like you constantly do.
The United Nations has agains condemned in 2013 Israel for GROSS VIOLATIONS of humanitarian law on Palestine... When will the israeli government stop the genocide on Palestinian people?
The United Nations has agains condemned in 2013 Israel for GROSS VIOLATIONS of humanitarian law on Palestine... When will the israeli government stop the genocide on Palestinian people?
As the ToS and some moderator do not allow me to tell you honestly what I think of you and people like you who make baseless claims like your constant repetition of a non-existant "genocide on Palestinain people", I will repeat that there has been a genocide against the Jewish people but none against the Palestinian.
So why should the "israeli (sic) government stop the genocide on Palestinian people" when such a genocide does not exist.
Why continue to tell lies (or is this an other violation of ToS?) instead of sticking to the facts?
As the ToS and some moderator do not allow me to tell you honestly what I think of you and people like you who make baseless claims like your constant repetition of a non-existant "genocide on Palestinain people", I will repeat that there has been a genocide against the Jewish people but none against the Palestinian.
So why should the "israeli (sic) government stop the genocide on Palestinian people" when such a genocide does not exist.
Why continue to tell lies (or is this an other violation of ToS?) instead of sticking to the facts?
The facts are the following:
The israeli government has, widespread, systematic, committed :
-GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS PERPETRATED BY THE ISRAELI OCCUPYING POWER, IN PARTICULAR: MASS KILLINGS
and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute:
-WAR CRIMES
-FLAGRANT VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW AND -CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY
Source : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
This United Nations resolution is based on concrete facts, and in depth studies, where the most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law, international conventions express the world opinion about the infamous crimes the goverment of israel is responsible of.
The facts are the following:
The israeli government has, widespread, systematic, committed :
-GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS PERPETRATED BY THE ISRAELI OCCUPYING POWER, IN PARTICULAR: MASS KILLINGS
and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute:
-WAR CRIMES
-FLAGRANT VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW AND -CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY
Source : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
This United Nations resolution is based on concrete facts, and in depth studies, where the most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law, international conventions express the world opinion about the infamous crimes the goverment of israel is responsible of.
Compare the paper Curtis Doebbler posted on Syria:
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=7719
with an UN Resolution. One (hint: the one Curtis Doebbler linked) is scientific, quotes sources etc. The UN Resolution on the other hand is a biased hack job.
Compare the paper Curtis Doebbler posted on Syria:
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=7719
with an UN Resolution. One (hint: the one Curtis Doebbler linked) is scientific, quotes sources etc. The UN Resolution on the other hand is a biased hack job.
Compare your sources with the one from the United Nations (UN) representing the world's unanimous point of view (except Israel and US ones, no surprise: they are both involved on those unhuman crimes....).
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
This United Nations resolution is based on concrete facts, and in depth studies, where the most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law, international conventions express the world opinion about the infamous crimes the goverment of israel is responsible of.
Compare your sources with the one from the United Nations (UN) representing the world's unanimous point of view (except Israel and US ones, no surprise: they are both involved on those unhuman crimes....).
http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E
This United Nations resolution is based on concrete facts, and in depth studies, where the most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law, international conventions express the world opinion about the infamous crimes the goverment of israel is responsible of.
There are no sources in the UN Resolution. And even if you post it one more time, that does not magically add sources.
And no, it is also not based on "concrete facts and in depth studies". Who are those "most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law"?
From your source:
"37. At the request of the representative of the United States of America, a roll-call vote was taken on the draft resolution, which was adopted by 19 votes to 16, with 17 abstentions. The voting was as follows:
In favour: Bangladesh, Bhutan, China, Cuba, India, Indonesia, Madagascar, Mauritius, Morocco, Niger, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Senegal, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tunisia, Venezuela.
Against: Canada, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Guatemala, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United States of America.
Abstaining: Argentina, Botswana, Brazil, Burundi, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Mexico, Nepal, Nigeria, Peru, Republic of Korea, Republic of the Congo, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Zambia."
Then how do you even dare to claim "unanimous point of view"? Unanimous, according to Merriam Webster means: "having the agreement and consent of all". So where in the world is a 19 aye, 16 nay with 17 absentions unanimous?
There are no sources in the UN Resolution. And even if you post it one more time, that does not magically add sources.
And no, it is also not based on "concrete facts and in depth studies". Who are those "most prestigious experts in international humanitarian law"?
From your source:
"37. At the request of the representative of the United States of America, a roll-call vote was taken on the draft resolution, which was adopted by 19 votes to 16, with 17 abstentions. The voting was as follows:
In favour: Bangladesh, Bhutan, China, Cuba, India, Indonesia, Madagascar, Mauritius, Morocco, Niger, Pakistan, Philippines, Qatar, Senegal, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tunisia, Venezuela.
Against: Canada, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Guatemala, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United States of America.
Abstaining: Argentina, Botswana, Brazil, Burundi, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Mexico, Nepal, Nigeria, Peru, Republic of Korea, Republic of the Congo, Russian Federation, Rwanda, Zambia."
Then how do you even dare to claim "unanimous point of view"? Unanimous, according to Merriam Webster means: "having the agreement and consent of all". So where in the world is a 19 aye, 16 nay with 17 absentions unanimous?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unanimous
Published on 18 December 2012 by the United Nations:
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs//2012/ga11330.doc.htm
The United Nations General Assembly adopted draft resolution IV on Israeli practices affecting the human rights of the Palestinian people in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem,
Among its provisions, the text demanded that ISRAEL, the occupying Power, cease all practices and actions:
-that VIOLATE THE HUMAN RIGHTS of the Palestinian people,
-including the KILLING AND INJURING of civilians,
-the ARBITRARY DETENTION and imprisonment of civilians and
-the DESTRUCTION and confiscation OF CIVILIAN PROPERTY. (Annex VIII)
Votes: 164 IN FAVOUR ! (8 against: Micronesia, Israel, Marshall Islands, Palau, Panama, United States...).
Published on 18 December 2012 by the United Nations:
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs//2012/ga11330.doc.htm
The United Nations General Assembly adopted draft resolution IV on Israeli practices affecting the human rights of the Palestinian people in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem,
Among its provisions, the text demanded that ISRAEL, the occupying Power, cease all practices and actions:
-that VIOLATE THE HUMAN RIGHTS of the Palestinian people,
-including the KILLING AND INJURING of civilians,
-the ARBITRARY DETENTION and imprisonment of civilians and
-the DESTRUCTION and confiscation OF CIVILIAN PROPERTY. (Annex VIII)
Votes: 164 IN FAVOUR ! (8 against: Micronesia, Israel, Marshall Islands, Palau, Panama, United States...).
What brazen dishonesty! You keep posting one UN resolution over and over again claiming unanimity. When shown that your claims aren't true, you find a vote of a draft resolution, listing six of the eight those voting against (yeah, Canada and Australia don't really count) and don't mention the six who abstained making the claim of unanimity unvalid again.
What brazen dishonesty! You keep posting one UN resolution over and over again claiming unanimity. When shown that your claims aren't true, you find a vote of a draft resolution, listing six of the eight those voting against (yeah, Canada and Australia don't really count) and don't mention the six who abstained making the claim of unanimity unvalid again.
Very funny comment from yours...
164 States in favor... only 8 against... isn't that the point of view of the World?
LOL
The world condemns condems Israel and ask the criminal israeli goverment, the occupying Power, to cease all practices and actions:
-that VIOLATE THE HUMAN RIGHTS of the Palestinian people,
-including the KILLING AND INJURING of civilians,
-the ARBITRARY DETENTION and imprisonment of civilians and
-the DESTRUCTION and confiscation OF CIVILIAN PROPERTY. (Annex VIII)
Very funny comment from yours...
164 States in favor... only 8 against... isn't that the point of view of the World?
LOL
The world condemns condems Israel and ask the criminal israeli goverment, the occupying Power, to cease all practices and actions:
-that VIOLATE THE HUMAN RIGHTS of the Palestinian people,
-including the KILLING AND INJURING of civilians,
-the ARBITRARY DETENTION and imprisonment of civilians and
-the DESTRUCTION and confiscation OF CIVILIAN PROPERTY. (Annex VIII)
You claimed unanimity! USA, Israel, Canada and Australia (and some others) are not part of the world? They have no voice according to you, no rights?
You claimed unanimity! USA, Israel, Canada and Australia (and some others) are not part of the world? They have no voice according to you, no rights?
It is a majority of the nations of the world, but not unanimity.
Secondly, a vast majority of those nations have a far lower standard in human rights than Israel has, so why should Israel have to listen to states like China, Cuba, Venezuela, all Arab and most of the African states?
I am no fan of Israel, but China lecturing Israel about human rights makes me want to vomit!
It is a majority of the nations of the world, but not unanimity.
Secondly, a vast majority of those nations have a far lower standard in human rights than Israel has, so why should Israel have to listen to states like China, Cuba, Venezuela, all Arab and most of the African states?
I am no fan of Israel, but China lecturing Israel about human rights makes me want to vomit!
164 States in favor... only 8 against... isn't that the point of view of vast majority of the World? Of course it is..LOL
The world is worried about the criminal israeli goverment, the occupying Power. The United Nations asks Israel to cease immeditely all practices and actions:
-that VIOLATE THE HUMAN RIGHTS of the Palestinian people,
-including the KILLING AND INJURING of civilians,
-the ARBITRARY DETENTION and imprisonment of civilians and
-the DESTRUCTION and confiscation OF CIVILIAN PROPERTY.
It's time THE CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL stops its infamous crimes agains the people of Palestine .. But the Israeli government doesn't respect international law, that's a fact
164 States in favor... only 8 against... isn't that the point of view of vast majority of the World? Of course it is..LOL
The world is worried about the criminal israeli goverment, the occupying Power. The United Nations asks Israel to cease immeditely all practices and actions:
-that VIOLATE THE HUMAN RIGHTS of the Palestinian people,
-including the KILLING AND INJURING of civilians,
-the ARBITRARY DETENTION and imprisonment of civilians and
-the DESTRUCTION and confiscation OF CIVILIAN PROPERTY.
It's time THE CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL stops its infamous crimes agains the people of Palestine .. But the Israeli government doesn't respect international law, that's a fact
Oh, an other copy-paste post. I hope you don't overexert.
So, I agree with your that now it's time THE CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL stops its infamous crimes agains the people of Palestine .. But the Israeli government doesn't respect international law, that's a fact
So, I agree with your that now it's time THE CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL stops its infamous crimes agains the people of Palestine .. But the Israeli government doesn't respect international law, that's a fact
Those voting against were Israel, the US (complices in the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people), Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia and Palau.
You forgot to mention that they drink their blood too...
Those voting against were Israel, the US (complices in the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people), Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia and Palau.
You forgot to mention that they drink their blood too...
Those voting against were Israel, the US (complices in the Israeli genocide of the Palestinian people), Canada, Marshall Islands, Micronesia and Palau.
You forgot to mention that they drink their blood too...
Thanks for confirming that the world condems the gross violation of international human law of the people of Palestine by the criminal israeli government :)
Thanks for confirming that the world condems the gross violation of international human law of the people of Palestine by the criminal israeli government :)
Thanks for confirming that the world condems the gross violation of international human law of the people of Palestine by the criminal israeli government :)
Ooops.... I was just trying to beat you at the game "Who says the most moronic thing about Israel"... Alas, I still have to concede defeat.
Ooops.... I was just trying to beat you at the game "Who says the most moronic thing about Israel"... Alas, I still have to concede defeat.
Well, in 2013 again, based on fact approved by the most prestigious international human right expers, the United Nations (UN) has condemned Israel for GROSS VIOLATIONS of humanitarian law on Palestine...
So the question is : when will the israeli government stop it crimes perpetrated on the Palestinian people for decades? Why not to take some action against the criminal israeli regime? Any ideas?
Well, in 2013 again, based on fact approved by the most prestigious international human right expers, the United Nations (UN) has condemned Israel for GROSS VIOLATIONS of humanitarian law on Palestine...
So the question is : when will the israeli government stop it crimes perpetrated on the Palestinian people for decades? Why not to take some action against the criminal israeli regime? Any ideas?
Ooops.... I was just trying to beat you at the game "Who says the most moronic thing about Israel"... Alas, I still have to concede defeat.
Yeah, noone can beat Juan D in that category.
Respecting fully the subject of this forum about Israel :
The people has to know that again this year, 2013, the United Nations (UN) has condemned the israeli government for GROSS VIOLATIONS of international humanitarian law in Palestine...
The terrific conclusions are based on facts, lasting for decades already, confimed by the most prestigious international human right experts.
Respecting fully the subject of this forum about Israel :
The people has to know that again this year, 2013, the United Nations (UN) has condemned the israeli government for GROSS VIOLATIONS of international humanitarian law in Palestine...
The terrific conclusions are based on facts, lasting for decades already, confimed by the most prestigious international human right experts.
I'm willing to bet "Juan" is not a real person. Either that, or he's one the least smart people I've ran accross, unable to address and construct any real argument.
@Juan: I think you'll find many people here who are willing to debate the Israel issue at depth (and Alan actually brings forward interesting arguments). But the way you personally "discuss" is like a blind-deaf man at a debate, who just holds up a poster saying "UN says Israel is bad", not able to see/hear/address other points. That's not a discussion.
I'm willing to bet "Juan" is not a real person. Either that, or he's one the least smart people I've ran accross, unable to address and construct any real argument.
@Juan: I think you'll find many people here who are willing to debate the Israel issue at depth (and Alan actually brings forward interesting arguments). But the way you personally "discuss" is like a blind-deaf man at a debate, who just holds up a poster saying "UN says Israel is bad", not able to see/hear/address other points. That's not a discussion.
Well, the world has been condemning for decades the criminal government of Israel for mass killings in Palestine..
Can we discuss about what can be done, in order to stop the suffering of the Palestinian people? How to stop what, in fact, is a sort of israeli government "genocide" on palestian people?
Well, the world has been condemning for decades the criminal government of Israel for mass killings in Palestine..
Can we discuss about what can be done, in order to stop the suffering of the Palestinian people? How to stop what, in fact, is a sort of israeli government "genocide" on palestian people?
“I prefer rogues to imbeciles, because they sometimes take a rest.” Alexandre Dumas
“I prefer rogues to imbeciles, because they sometimes take a rest.” Alexandre Dumas
... and this is the exact reason of the protest...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/idf-draft-bill-protest-new-york-city-photos_n_3413593.html?ir=New+York
... and this is the exact reason of the protest...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/idf-draft-bill-protest-new-york-city-photos_n_3413593.html?ir=New+York
... and this is the exact reason of the protest...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/idf-draft-bill-protest-new-york-city-photos_n_3413593.html?ir=New+York
@Casuistik:
Please don't confuse Juan and Shawn with the real facts
For Shawn, the protest was some proof that Israel is bad, and the Jews manipulated the global media into not covering it.
In reality, the protest was held by the niche ultra orthodox segment, protesting for selfish specific reasons: until now they didn't have to go into the Israeli army, but now they do. The protest was of course covered by all major media networks, as a simple google search shows.
People from both sides of the Israeli-Palestine conflict get caught up on this black-or-white vision, seeing only the J's or only the P's as bad, and the other side good. If only...
@Casuistik:
Please don't confuse Juan and Shawn with the real facts
For Shawn, the protest was some proof that Israel is bad, and the Jews manipulated the global media into not covering it.
In reality, the protest was held by the niche ultra orthodox segment, protesting for selfish specific reasons: until now they didn't have to go into the Israeli army, but now they do. The protest was of course covered by all major media networks, as a simple google search shows.
People from both sides of the Israeli-Palestine conflict get caught up on this black-or-white vision, seeing only the J's or only the P's as bad, and the other side good. If only...
Thanks for the great link you provided :
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151548819123557&set=a.83169158556.81261.81255163556&type=1&ref=nf
very interesting, and it works perfectly.
Thanks for the great link you provided :
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151548819123557&set=a.83169158556.81261.81255163556&type=1&ref=nf
very interesting, and it works perfectly.
Unfortunately, this is this kind of jews you are referring to:
http://jezebel.com/5871293/orthodox-israelis-spit-on-whorish-8+year+old-girl-for-going-to-school
You seem to have knack for always siding with the best...
Unfortunately, this is this kind of jews you are referring to:
http://jezebel.com/5871293/orthodox-israelis-spit-on-whorish-8+year+old-girl-for-going-to-school
You seem to have knack for always siding with the best...
Thanks for the great link, very interesting to know what Jews think about the State of Israel.
But I still wonder : how is it possible such a huge demonstration by over 100'000 (one hundred thousands) Jews protesting the State of Israel did not receive a appropriate coverage on the medias? In particular, when such a big demonstration took place in New York City itself?
Thanks for the great link, very interesting to know what Jews think about the State of Israel.
But I still wonder : how is it possible such a huge demonstration by over 100'000 (one hundred thousands) Jews protesting the State of Israel did not receive a appropriate coverage on the medias? In particular, when such a big demonstration took place in New York City itself?
@Juan: it's because Jews control the world media of course! The Jews also drink blood of non Jews for breakfast and they go crazy when they see cash.
You're really a dumb person in general, and an anti-semite on top.
I hope the anti Israel camp has people on its side which are a little brighter than you, or else their cause is lost.
@Shaun: help this Juan guy out, he's hurting your cause!
@Juan: it's because Jews control the world media of course! The Jews also drink blood of non Jews for breakfast and they go crazy when they see cash.
You're really a dumb person in general, and an anti-semite on top.
I hope the anti Israel camp has people on its side which are a little brighter than you, or else their cause is lost.
@Shaun: help this Juan guy out, he's hurting your cause!
Juan - you are an idiot with a keyboad.