Mahmoud Al Sarsak

Footballer of the year

On hunger strike for 90 days

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-free-footballer-mahmoud-sarsak-after-epic-3-month-hunger-strike-lawyer

Guys, is this the place to do this here? Wether right or wrong - I'd like to stay away from that - but in IMHO this shouldn't be here....

Glocals was created by Israelis. You boycott Israeli products - we don't see you here anymore. Deal?

No deal, it is Irelevant that Glocals was founded by Israelis.

I' am raising awareness of what crimes Israel has committed. Being in Switzerland, I beleive it is a free country to do so.

Just a glimpse at how Palestinians are treated in Lebanon:

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/lebanon-eyes-palestinian-refugees

I'm waiting for your call to boycott Lebanese products...

I agree with Casuistik's logic. Glocals is ran by Israelies. If Salem is calling to boycot Israel, he should start with Glocals. Guess that's goodbye to Salem.

I am often amazed with the Arab's obsession with Israel as opposed to their lack of action when it comes to other Arab countries and their human rights record. So many arab regimes treat their own people in sub-human ways, torture and kill their own, and give their citizens almost zero rights. Look at all the recent Arab revolutions to understand how much regular Arabs were crushed by their regimes. But you don't hear much about that, it's all Israel.

I dont think " all arabs" think its" all Israel'!!! Thats probably why there were all those revolutions in most of the arab countries against their regimes. However, I do agree, that this website is definately not a place to call for boycotting Israeli products. If anything, its a proof of the opposit! It's a prrof that some people from Israel created a platform where people could communicate with no discrimination! ... Hope you guys try to enjoy the luxury of having such a sunny lovely evening in a city like Geneva! :)

Ayman... err... amen to that, my friend!

You are my idol man :)

The concept of promoting boycotting products from a certain country reminds me of old ladies organising a soiree againt poverty where they end up spending more than the raise! maybe if you go to the source of the problem and you discuss why regimes in the area promote discrimination, labelling, stereotyping, spreading fear, etc , it might be worth it. But just to spread more hate and ignorance... come on! ... seriously! :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbIQto3KPUM

If Glocals is an Israeli platform so be it, I can't change that but can only try and make the rest of the international community in Geneva and beyond aware of the facts and promote a boycott to Israeli goods.

If you think it's an arab obsession, you are very wrong, some of my best friends are Jews and oppose Israel, for Example: David Landy and David cronin (the Guardian) are Irish nationals. 
 

I' am not spreading hate or ignorance, people should have the choice whether or not they want to Boycott Israel

BDS  is a worldwide movement http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro

The global movement for a campaign of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel until it complies with international law and Palestinian rights was initiated by Palestinian civil society in 2005, and is coordinated by the Palestinian BDS National Committee (BNC), established in 2007. BDS is a strategy that allows people of conscience to play an effective role in the Palestinian struggle for justice.

For decades, Israel has denied Palestinians their fundamental rights of freedom, equality, and self-determination through ethnic cleansing, colonization, racial discrimination, and military occupation. Despite abundant condemnation of Israeli policies by the UN, other international bodies, and preeminent human rights organisations, the world community has failed to hold Israel accountable and enforce compliance with basic principles of law. Israel’s crimes have continued with impunity.

In view of this continued failure, Palestinian civil society called for a global citizens’ response. On July 9 2005, a year after the International Court of Justice’s historic advisory opinion on the illegality of Israel’s Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), a clear majority of Palestinian civil society called upon their counterparts and people of conscience all over the world to launch broad boycotts, implement divestment initiatives, and to demand sanctions against Israel, until Palestinian rights are recognised in full compliance with international law.

The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

The BDS call was endorsed by over 170 Palestinian political parties, organizations, trade unions and movements. The signatories represent the refugees, Palestinians in the OPT, and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

Boycotts target products and companies (Israeli and international) that profit from the violation of Palestinian rights, as well as Israeli sporting, cultural and academic institutions. Anyone can boycott Israeli goods, simply by making sure that they don’t buy produce made in Israel or by Israeli companies. Campaigners and groups call on consumers not to buy Israeli goods and on businesses not to buy or sell them.

Israeli cultural and academic institutions directly contribute to maintaining, defending or whitewashing the oppression of Palestinians, as Israel deliberately tries to boost its image internationally through academic and cultural collaborations. As part of the boycott, academics, artists and consumers are campaigning against such collaboration and ‘rebranding’. A growing number of artists have refused to exhibit or play in Israel.

Divestment means targeting corporations complicit in the violation of Palestinian rights and ensuring that the likes of university investment portfolios and pension funds are not used to finance such companies. These efforts raise awareness about the reality of Israel’s policies and encourage companies to use their economic influence to pressure Israel to end its systematic denial of Palestinian rights.

Sanctions are an essential part of demonstrating disapproval for a country’s actions. Israel’s membership of various diplomatic and economic forums provides both an unmerited veneer of respectability and material support for its crimes. By calling for sanctions against Israel, campaigners educate society about violations of international law and seek to end the complicity of other nations in these violations.

The BDS National Committee

The efforts to coordinate the BDS campaign, that began to grow rapidly as soon as/once the 2005 Call was made public, culminated in the first Palestinian BDS Conference held in Ramallah in November 2007. Out of this conference emerged the BDS National Committee (BNC) as the Palestinian coordinating body for the BDS campaign worldwide. See the BNC page for more details.

@Salem:

You imply that because some Jews oppose Israel, then all critism against Israel must be true. I just don't get that argument. Let's take the other side of it: more Jews support Israel than oppose Israel. Would that mean Israel's policies are right? No. You see, the argument of "some Jews support / oppose Israel" doesn't mean anything. 

Here's my suggestion to you: Syria is killing hundreds of Syrians each month AS WE SPEAK. That's far more serious and pressing than what's going on in Israel. Focus your energy on raising awarness for that. 

And guess who's going to suffer the most if the Israeli economy is weakened by a moronic boycott...

Economic Relations Between Israel and the Palestinian Authority (Information Division, Israel Foreign Ministry - Jerusalem)

Introduction

It is Israel's clear political and security interest to act for the advancement of the Palestinian economy and the well-being of the Palestinian population. The two economies are strongly interrelated, and this relationship between them during the interim period has been set forth in the "Paris Agreement" (incorporated into the Interim Agreement - "Oslo 2"). In order to prevent the formation of economic borders and to allow the free flow of good, the agreement creates a uniform customs framework for Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA). Although criticism is sometimes voiced against the agreement in international forums (mainly due to political motivations), it is clear that any departure from this principle would primarily damage the Palestinian economy.

Employment in Israel

1.In view of the importance to the Palestinian GNP of income from labor in Israel, and in light of Israel's interest in reducing the numbers of foreign workers, actions are being taken to allow more Palestinians to work within Israel proper. As a consequence of this policy, the number of Palestinian workers in Israel is being determined by market forces alone (within security requirements) and the number of work permits is not subject to quantitative limits.

2.Palestinians wishing to work in Israel must obtain a work permit. Today, about 45,000 Palestinians holding permits work in Israel - 25,000 from the Gaza district and 20,000 from Judea-Samaria.

3.Another 12,000 Palestinians work in industrial parks and Israeli settlements within the West Bank and Gaza - 3,500 in the Erez industrial park and settlements in the Gaza Strip and 8,500 in such areas in Judea-Samaria.

4.In all, Israelis currently employ about 57,000 inhabitants of the territories under permit.

5.Additionally, tens of thousands (20,000-40,000) are known to cross from Judea-Samaria into Israel without permits each day for work.

6.This brings the total number of Palestinians employed by Israelis to 80,000-100,000 - the highest number in several years.

Israeli Initiatives to Increase Palestinian Employment

In view of Israel's intent to replace foreign workers with Palestinians and its interest in improving the economic situation in the PA areas, the Israeli Government has recently announced several new initiatives with respect to employment of Palestinians within Israel:

In order to ease the burden on those workers who commute several hours daily to and from Israel, it has been decided to allow 5,000 laborers to stay in Israel overnight.

A program has been approved to allow 30,000 Palestinian workers to enter Israel, even during security closures of the territories.

In order to recruit more Palestinian workers into the Israeli construction industry, an employment fair was recently held in the Erez industrial park.

Commerce and Merchants

1.Goods are allowed to flow freely between Israel and the PA. Furthermore, there is no restriction on the number of trucks that may cross between the sides; the extent of traffic reflects market requirements alone.

2.In an effort to advance the activities of the Palestinian business community, Israel has designated a group of merchants, notables, and businessmen who may enter Israel under special permits. The program currently includes 7,500 businessmen from Judea-Samaria and 4,500 from the Gaza district - the highest number ever.

3.The extent of bilateral trade between Israel and the Palestinians now stands at $2.0-$2.5 billion annually.

4.The volume of trade measured in traffic (not including Israeli vehicles) is about 800-900 truckloads daily.

Industrial Areas and Investments

1.As part of its efforts to improve the economic situation of the Palestinians, Israel is acting, together with the Palestinian Authority, to build additional industrial parks in Gaza and the West Bank.

2.The concept of joint industrial parks along the dividing line, elaborated several years ago, has several advantages:

a.conomic development (Palestinian and Israeli) b.Reinforcement of Israel-Palestinian economic cooperation c.Convenient access for workers and employers d.Preventing friction between Palestinian workers and Israelis

3.One industrial park is in operation today, at Erez. More than 80 enterprises are located there, providing jobs for 3,000 workers from Gaza. Almost half of the enterprises are owned by Palestinian entrepreneurs.

4.The plan to establish an industrial park at the Karni checkpoint (GIE-Gaza Industrial Estate) is in its advanced stages of implementation. Israel has contributed $7.5 million to the project, which is expected to become operative in the middle of 1998. The Karni industrial park, located in territory controlled by the Palestinian Authority, is to serve as the central industrial area of the Gaza Strip and to provide tens of thousands of jobs.

5.Additionally, staff work is being done by the relevant agencies (Ministry of Industry and Trade, Ministry of Defense, Coordinator of Government Operations in the Territories) to designate a site for the first joint industrial park in Judea-Samaria.

The Transfer of Taxes

1.Under the Paris Agreement, Israel forwards to the Palestinians monthly clearances on five accounts:

a.Import Taxes b.Value Added Tax c.Fuel Excise Tax d.Income Tax e.Health Tax

2.These transfers totaled NIS 1,871 million ($540 million) in 1997, as against NIS 1,416 million ($423 million) in 1996.

3.This sums represent 60-65% of the Palestinian budget - clearly illustrating the importance of the Paris Agreement for the Palestinian Authority.

Conclusion

Israel is making considerable efforts to improve the economic situation within the areas of the Palestinian Authority. These efforts can be seen in the increase of Palestinians working in Israel, free passage (subject to security inspections) for Palestinian exports and imports, cooperation with the PA in establishing joint industrial parks, and the promotion of foreign investment within PA areas. Israel has found, however, that the PA occasionally subordinates economic considerations to political ones. In order for these initiatives to succeed, Israel requires the responsiveness and cooperation of both the Palestinians and the international community at large.

Thank you very much for the detailed enlighting definition of BSD! :)

so, are you actually trying to understand what everyone is telling you or is this a one way conversation where you just copy paste what you were told to copy paste all over the web?!!

what has BSD achieved for Palestenian rights since 2005?!

Do you think you are helping Palestenians and their image by going on a portal created by Israelis to boycott Israeli products?!!!

Do you think demonstrating ignorance and announcing boycotting Israeli people would change their politicians positions?!

You are not doing Palestenians any favors, even worse, you are just making all Arabs look bad by spreading those messages and starting those forums.

Try to better use this site in communicating instead of boycotting, you will see that you might learn much more! :)

I' am giving you the detailed defenition of BDS as a worldwide movement to enlighten you as you were referring Boycutt to an '' old ladies organising a soiree.. ''

Since 2005 we have made more and more people and Multinationals aware of what Israeli crimes has been commited and to avoid doing business with the Apartheid. Also we wencourage artists  not to perform in Tel Aviv.

You calling this Boycutt ignorant, it is your own view, politicians will have to react once Israeli markets close in Europe.

I quote from Labor MK Benyamin Ben Eliezer last year: “Listen, Bibi,” MK Benjamin Ben-Eliezer growled, “I congratulate you on your hug from Congress, but it will not take us off the path to confrontation. Our situation in Europe is very bad. President Obama said everything we wanted him to say. Now you have to announce that Israel will vote for a Palestinian state in the UN this September … As a former industry and trade minister, I tell you: The markets are closing. We will suffer a devastating economic blow.”

Again this is not an Arab uprising issue it is a universal one, like what happenned in South Africa, it was wrong then, Apartheid is also wrong in Israel.

I' am defending the argument this being an Arab absession against Israel which is not the case, in the Republicof Ireland we have political parties that are all for the Boycott.

In the Republic of Ireland we are more aware of what a brutal army can do, like the British did to us.

I'll be the judge of what or where I spend my energy, cheers.

OK Salem, so your new argument is now that Israel practices apartheid. Great catch phrase to catch people who don't know the facts. Let's see if it holds in reality.

Apartheid is racial segregation, where the ruling party uses political, legal, and economic discrimination against its citizens. In Israel and Palestine the discpute is over land, not over discrimination.

The palestinians in the west bank, represented by Hammas, openly say they want to erase Israel and establish Palestine on the land that will free up with the Israelis are dead. Israel keeps settling in disputed lands. A complex scenario where both sides are messing up for sure. But the argument of apartheid is totally the wrong analogy, as is the argument that Israel is the clear bad one in that complex situation.

Wake up, open your eyes to reality. 

And speaking of reality: if your boycott does work and Israel's economy suffers, the Palestinian economy will suffer much more as it depends on Israel .

BDS mouvement has always been against Israel being Apartheid

Being sold by Migros and Coop there are some examples like SodaStream products, new potatoes and dates of MAJOUL Hadiklaim, this has to be denounced as an apartheid policy that benefits Israeli companies. 

Indeed, the latter benefit from Israeli state policy based on the exploitation of Palestinian labor, the occupation of lands confiscated and discriminatory access to water.

Finally, after meeting a delagation from BDS, Migros has expressed an openness on the issue of lack of transparency of the labeling of products from the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), currently sold as "Made in Israel"

I think you playing it a bit fast and loose with the term Apartheid, to insinuate that the Palestinian issues are a result of Israeli racism, rather then the fact that Palestinian resistance movements have deliberately targeted Israeli citizens,  is a straw man argument at best.  I also think a boycott is a rediculous idea as many of the products Israel exports actually employ Palestinians.  Why not instead of making posts like this from the safety of Switzerland you go to Gaza and start a grass roots movement there? I suggest non-violent civil disobedience.  We know from history that this works. 

@Bob:

Agree with you 100%, well put.

Sadly my take is that Salem is not here to debate facts & views, and is not open to any other point of views. He's here to spread propaganda, that's it. 

Have a great weekend.

Hey guys,

Really interesting post. I think it's great to have open and frank conversations about this topic so thanks for starting it Salem. 

I don't think it's fair to accuse Salem of propaganda. That's an intellectually lazy way of dismissing someone's views as being invalid. Whether or not one agrees with the boycott what one cannot dismiss is the fact that Israel is stealing land that doesn't belong to it - no argument there right? We can't all move to Gaza. But boycotting food produced on stolen land is a reasonable and non-violent way to express our feelings of solidarity with the Palestinian people. 

Here is a recent op-ed article by Peter Beinart, calling for a boycott of products made in West Bank settlements. The opinion piece addresses many of the issues raised throughout this thread, including comparisons to apartheid.

"That Israel systematically oppresses West Bank Palestinians has been acknowledged even by the former Israeli prime ministers Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert, who have warned that Israel’s continued rule there could eventually lead to a South African-style apartheid system."

Here is the author's main argument for a boycott of these products:

"Instead, we should call the West Bank “nondemocratic Israel.” The phrase suggests that there are today two Israels: a flawed but genuine democracy within the green line and an ethnically-based nondemocracy beyond it. It counters efforts by Israel’s leaders to use the legitimacy of democratic Israel to legitimize the occupation and by Israel’s adversaries to use the illegitimacy of the occupation to delegitimize democratic Israel.

Having made that rhetorical distinction, American Jews should seek every opportunity to reinforce it. We should lobby to exclude settler-produced goods from America’s free-trade deal with Israel. We should push to end Internal Revenue Service policies that allow Americans to make tax-deductible gifts to settler charities. Every time an American newspaper calls Israel a democracy, we should urge it to include the caveat: only within the green line.

But a settlement boycott is not enough. It must be paired with an equally vigorous embrace of democratic Israel. We should spend money we’re not spending on settler goods on those produced within the green line. We should oppose efforts to divest from all Israeli companies with the same intensity with which we support efforts to divest from companies in the settlements: call it Zionist B.D.S."

By the way, there is a difference between the Israeli state, the current Israeli government, and the Israeli people. One can be against the policies of the Netanyahu government and still support Israelis and have Israeli and Jewish friends.

Here is the link to the Beinart op-ed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/opinion/to-save-israel-boycott-the-settlements.html?pagewanted=all

While you like it or not our capaign to Boycott Appartheid Israel will continue, your point that you employ Palestinians is derivation of the truth, you humiliate the Palestinains people.

We strive for a non-violent response to the IDF crimes over the years... 

I was also involved in sending the Irish ship to Gaza simply to send Sports equipment to the people there, and it was seized by the IDF.

Salem you have our support , many thanks to you and to those who understand what humanity is all about. knowing that I have many swiss friends who does know the truth

Salem you don't have our support because you're bringing half truths and refusing to see the rest.

Omar:

The truth you speak of is also that Hamas support suicide bombing of women and children, encourages Palestinian children to become Shahids in the war, and openly says it will only stop killing Israelis when all of Israel is in Hammas hands. Very humane.

I don't have anything against making an argument against Israel. But I don't support a 1 sided view that puts all the blame on Israel, ignoring who Israel is up against - Hamas - and what Hamas do.

here's what hamas says of Israel, America, and the world. 

Enjoy the humanity!

@mark spencer: dear mark, what does this video have to do with a boycott on food produced on stolen land?  

choosing not to buy a bag of potatoes is not the moral equivalent of blowing up a bus full of innocent people. Let's all get back to the original topic: to boycott or not to boycott. and please, keep contributing, i genuinely would like to know why you think boycotting is wrong in this situation. You don't need to tell us Hamas is dangerous, that is a given and no one is arguing that point here. the floor is yours my friend...

Funny how a boycott on all Israeli products (culture, food, all kind of goods, inside and outside Israel) becomes a boycott on food produced on stolen land.

@ Casuistik: The problem is the labelling of products is dishonest. Folks producing fruit and veg on stolen land know only too well there are many of us who won't to buy their harvest if we know it comes from farms established on stolen land.  So until the labels are sorted out(telling us exactly where the food was produced) I will continue to boycott those food products labelled as coming from Israel.  

Now, back to my question: how is posting a video of Hamas relevant to a decision not to buy a bag of potatoes produced on stolen land?

Sober up, my friend... and hit the right thread: this is NOT the thread dedicated to the pai's support groups wishing to label Israeli products made in the disputed territories.

I believe the purpose of the boycott is to damage the economy of Israel and to show support for the Palestinian cause.  Therefore when we see that the Palestinian people support Hamas as they voted them in to power (in Gaza).  And we understand that Hamas as a group has vowed to obliterate Israel. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets from population dense areas of Palestine in to population dense areas of Israeli. Resulting in the deaths of hundreds of people on both sides.   So yes we must consider the actions of the Palestinian people including Hamas before we decide to sanction Israel for their benefit. So that is why Hamas videos are relevant to a decision to not buy a bag of potatoesfrom Israel.     

Secondly I do not agree with the term "stolen land" to refer to Palestine.   As you know that region was divided up by the British empire. With the Arab population gettig the vast majority of the land.  When Israeli declared its independence foreign powers including Egypt, Jordan and Syria invaded the Palestinian territories and attacked Isreal.  Isreal defeated them.   The Arab forces were not able to destroy Isreal.  But they did maintain a military presence in the Palestinian area.  They did not offer to create a Palestinian state.  It was not until subsequent wars that Isreal managed to fully liberate palestine from the invading Arab armies.  Isreal has offered the Palestinians a state on numerous occasions.  The palatinians refused. Isreal stole nothing.

Salem, Omar et al.

I fear your words will be shouted down here, all this talk of half-truths etc we know is nonsense. Israel insisted on democratic elections but then refused to accept the result of those elections as the result was victory for Hamas.

Why are people still living in refugee camps 45 years after the war that displaced them from their lands? These are the camps that are regularly attacked by US supplied helicopter gunships, in reprisal for missile attacks. RPG and stones are all Palestinians have and one can only imagine how desperate someone must be to become a suicide bomber.

Israel controls what enters Gaza and the West Bank, it's blockade caused the deaths (murder?) of 9 activists attempting to bring food relief in May 2010.

The "wall" illustrates the "apartheid nature of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians (Google it). They are sheperded into their enclosures, made to queue for hours to make previosuly short journeys, in the face of international law their land is further eroded by more settlemets for Jewish people. It is a self proclaimed "Jewish state" where the Arab is not welcome. One rule exists for the Jew and another for the Arab, and still there are those here claim this is nothing like Apartheid.

I could go on but just wanted to add some balance here to those who shout you down but ignore the facts and refuse to accept that the state of Israel can do any wrong.

Excuse spelling.

I keep my eye out for this prefix below the bar-code...

All, there is another thread entitled "Migros to label goods from Israeli settlements in Occupied Territory" that I started at the beginning of June and I would welcome views there as most of the thread was a two way debaqte between me and someone unreasonable.....!

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

http://www.freewebs.com/jewsagainstzionism/

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

http://www.ijsn.net/home/

As the thread is entitled "What are your views on Israel" I will confirm that I am anti the Zionist state of Israel. However I wanted to demonstrate that there are also plenty of Jews around the world that hold the same belief.

Hi Shaun.

What do you mean by 'I am Anti the Zionist State of Israel'.

Does that mean you object to some / all of the policies & behaviors implemented by the current Israeli government, or you are opposed to the idea of an Israeli state?

Thanks,

Oded

Is this a question from an Administrator/Moderator point of view or as a forum participant?

I certainly object to most of the policies and behaviours of the current Israeli government, and I have always opposed the policy and theory of zionism which makes me critical of most of the administrations in Israels history. 

I would also oppose in retrospect many or the borders that were drawn up post WW2 with little thought or respect for culture, tribalism, "what works here doesn't work there".

I also oppose how the US back regimes/leaders in the region when it suits them and drops them like a hot potato when it doesn't.

I am not opposed to a state of Israel BUT in co-existance with a state of Palestine. Or indeed one secular state in which all men were equal and could live peacefully side by side.

I hope that makes my position clear, regardless of your reasoning for asking the question.

Thanks Shaun,

The question was my attempt to understand your statement.

I'm not going to try to argue with you here, but I would suggest to you that this issue is much more complex than you make it out to be.

Both sides have made, and continue to make, a ton of mistakes and I don't think that blanket 'these guys are good and those guys are bad' statements / ideas help bring about a solution.  On the contrary - I think that blanket statements just make people, on both sides, circle the wagons and defend things they may not beleive in 100%.

So again, without getting into the arguments, I would suggest that bringing up realistic solutions to the problems would be more helpful than trying to prove who's right and who's wrong.

Thanks

Oded

I think you know as well as any other regular contributors that in the past I have made long and detailed arguments to back up my beliefs, well corroborated with facts and references - I am not going to repeat it all again.

I am entitled, having weighed up all the evidence over a number of years and having done significant research, to come to a conclusion. Think about it along the lines of a masters degree perhaps, you study in a modular fashion, you write about it drawing certain conclusions along the way. Then at the end, you draw a master conclusion in your final piece.

My master conclusion is that the state of Israel violates international law and I do not agree with it. I am entitled to draw that conclusion, and indeed voice it.

I have actually avoided getting deeply embroiled in this thread for the reasons set out above - I have done it all before. In the post with the links though, i was raising a new point - it is not only non-Jews that disagree with the Zionist state of Isael, there are also many Jews to think the same, for various different reasons - some deeply religeous, others out of a sense of justice for neighbours and fellow human beings.

That's it really.

Shaun - you are indeed entitled to your conclusion, and I know you're as sure of your conclusion as people on the other side are of theirs.

My point is that this conclusion does not help bring about a solution.

Israel violates international law.  ok.  Point taken.
Hammas also violates international law. 

So what's a viable solution that both sides can live with?

Let me try to illustrate my point with a simplification:

2 guys are fighting, and after a while, guy # 1 gets guy # 2 in a headlock (these guys have a long history of fighting, and each of them distrusts & fears the other guy).  While guy # 2 is in the headlock, he's still thrashing around and yelling that, as soon as guy # 1 releases him, he's going to stab him in the heart.

A crowd gathers around and starts to shout their 'conclusions'.

Most of the conclusions are along the lines of 'guy # 1 is right' or 'guy # 2 is right'.

Guy # 1 says 'I can't let him go, cause if I do, he'll stab me in the heart.  He says so himself'.

Guy # 2 says 'I'm not willing to accept any pre-agreed terms.  If he lets me go, I'll stab him'.

Despite this, the people gathered around still insist on shouting their 'conclusions' (guys # 1 is right or Guy # 2 is right).

All of the conclusions are relevant and backed up by years of research, but they don't help the guys figure out a way in which they can stop fighting and still stay alive.

A biased over-simplification I know, but I'd still like to hear ways in which both sides can improve the situation wile still protecting their people and being able to live semi-normal lives.

Oded

So Oded, it's as simple as :

"Israel violates international law.  ok.  Point taken.
Hammas also violates international law."

... is it?

If the Palestinians were granted statehood and they, as a sovereign state, commited the same acts and flouted international law in the same way then it would be as simple as you say it is.

In one breath you accuse Shaun of over-simplification and in the next  you reduce it to the boldly ridiculous statement I pasted above.

David - let's pretend that we already spent a few hours going back and forth about who's fault is is and who's right or wrong.

How do both sides move forward?

What immediate steps would you suggest to end the conflict and create a feasible solution?

Oded

Well to start with, out of respect for international law and the wishes of the vast majorty of countries (except for USA whose support allows Israel to violate these laws with impunity) the Netanyahu led government should cease building further settlements in highly contentious neighbourhoods which are maintained by army squadrons.

Removing the wall might be nice too. The assumption that people are terrorists does not engender their trust.

Sit down and talk as equals, consider the opposite side's viewpoint, then attempt to justify your own actions would be a good starting point.

But the you knew I was gonna say that didn't you?

I thought I knew what you were going to say, but I was wrong.  This, for me, is a good example of what happens when people talk solutions instead of talking blame.

I don't think that removing the wall is feasible at this point because of security concerns, but I think that the 2 other steps you suggested are great. Seriously.

Would have been nice if you also suggested that Hammas stops bombing Israel and removes 'we aim to demolish Israel' from their official charter, but maybe that will come later.

Oded

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/27/world/middleeast/jewish-settlers-begin-evacuation-of-ulpana.html

"With Israel’s Supreme Court having ruled that five of Ulpana’s 14 multifamily buildings had to be removed by July 1, the government spent the past several months struggling to find a solution that would appease the settlers without enraging the international community. Last week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced that he would not only add around 300 homes to Beit El but also 500 elsewhere in the West Bank and that he would try to relocate rather than demolish the Ulpana buildings in a feat of engineering the prospects of which are yet unclear.

So while the court ruling was seen as a victory for Palestinians and the Israeli left that advocates for them, Tuesday was hardly a celebration on either side. Many experts and advocates said the handling of Ulpana — and two other settlements on private land scheduled to be evacuated this summer, Migron and Givat Assaf — simply proved Mr. Netanyahu’s commitment to the settlement enterprise and made any future two-state solution less likely."

Then again, one can't blame everything on the Israelis, of course. The legendary corruption of the Palestinian Authority under Arafat -- as well as his successors -- essentially aided the rise of Hamas whose leaders know enough to feed, clothe and house ordinary Palestinians more effectively than the so-called mainstream Palestinian leaders. This is not to say I support Hamas but that they are providing basic forms of assistance that other are not.

Finally, many of the other Arab nations only pay lip service to aiding the Palestinian. I have cited in other threads the consistent manner in which monetary pledges for programs to aid Palestianian people and refugees from Arab nations are routinely made and then ignored. That says a great deal about lack of commitment of those nations.

Guys, its almost 6pm... Time to get off work... Lets see what that "Holy Land" has to offer...

Thanks Ehsaan, just by way of contrast, take a look at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjk5gxCSICw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FcPqvl38c8

Shocking!

Suddenly quiet here.

@Manics: you're probably the only one who still believes this thread is just about boycotting Israeli food products.

The video showing Hammases' humane views (with pearls like "all non muslims must die") is in response to Omar, who implied that those who understand humanity should be anti-Israel. If I follow Omar's criteria of looking at humanity in the Israel vs Hammas issue, Hammas can't possibly score any lower.

Oh dear. With the mess they left behind, I'm not surprised that even Her Majesty's subjects get confused about the Palestine mandate. How about we hand over the whole shebang to the French and have a good laugh

The same French who led the assault on Libya? That worked.........

From today's UK Daily Mail

LIBYA

The National Transitional Council, which has ruled since last year’s Nato-led uprising in Libya, governs in name only. Since the fall of Tripoli in August 2011, Libya has been in turmoil.

Officials openly admit billions of dollars have been smuggled out of the country by corrupt officials and businessmen, while the country’s infrastructure is disintegrating.

Just this month, the British ambassador’s vehicle was attacked by rocket-propelled grenades, and the U.S. Consulate was bombed. The latter attack was claimed by a local Islamist group, which said it was angered by assassinations of suspected Al Qaeda members in Pakistan.

Parliamentary elections slated for this month have been postponed until July  7, with officials citing ‘logistical and technical’ reasons for the delay. Not that most people in this most tribal of Arab countries, as elsewhere in the region, are likely to care.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2166240/As-hated-leaders-replaced-brutally-oppressive-regimes-Middle-East-Arab-Spring-sick-joke.html#ixzz1zBe9K8MH

Cue buffoonish YouTube clip of non-tribal and pro-western Libyan chicks...

The government of Israel is violating the international public law for decades. What can the international community do, so that the State of Israel finally respects the international public law?

For much less than that we've assited to invasions from the International community...

I am totally convinced that there is no soluation, I hate to say it, but thats the ugly truth. not to forget that Israel keeps on building settlements and they have nuclear wepons and the full support from USA.

Amir,

What I was saying is that the conflict will not end soon, its been already around 40 years and things are just getting worse day by day.

I am for sure against killing civil innocents people from both sides.

The boycott idea was not initiated by me, but I always support peaceful means to stop violence.

You have no right to say that my degree should be revaluated, and to address me in such aggressive, mean, and disrespectful way. Sorry for not being able to reply to you with the same impolite manners.

I guess you can use the (reply with qoute) in order to reply directly to someone post.

since mine was the last, I thought you are addressing my comment.

misunderstanding

Keep well

*numb* before you pick me up on spelling

Come on or show me where I claim this or apologize forthwith

It's ok Amir I pity you and any poor souls you inflict yourself upon in real life

I deleted some posts that contained profanity, personal insults and threats.

Oded

Very much appreciate your post, finally a voice of reason, especially appreciated you pointing out that :

one cannot dismiss is the fact that Israel is stealing land that doesn't belong to it - no argument there right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9YqW_YD-wM

The government of Israel is responsible for the killing of thousands of Palestinian civilians (shoot on women, kids...), after having stolen their land, confiscated their water supply, and reduced them to starvation... all this in complete violation of international public law. The international community needs now to put an end to these horrible crimes.

The only difference is I never see any products from any other middle eastern country in the Migro or Coop (maybe turkish figs ?).

If you want to read about the history of the Isreali-Palestinian saga (until the mid 1970ś)I suggest reading the thesis of Jean-Paul Pirlot (two volumes, about 1500 pages, and bound disgracefully by the HEI). You will find it in the library at the HEI here in Geneva. The documented deceit on the part of the Isrealis is appalling.

Dr. Pirlot was blocked from defending his thesis for 14 years due to the pro Isreal lobby. He finally won his right to defend his thesis in front of outside examiners and received his doctorate. The city of Geneva offered him a paltry 100 000 CHF in compensation due to the obstruction by the rector.

Several hunger strikes later, in the end this man committed suicide at La Treille near to the entrance where the politicians entered their chambers (his last politcal act).

I see a large number of intolerant bigots on both sides of the argument. Human rights and international law have been treated like toilet paper particularly by the US, Isrealś most important ally.

My personal point of view is that a state needs to protect the interests of all inhabitants and not favor a particular group based on religion, sex or race. After Auschwitz in 1948 we had the International Declaration of Human Rights. It is a wonderful document. I only wish more people would read it and promote it.

Thanks,

Gerold Rupprecht

Thanks for present some partial details, but you pointedly leave out the behavior of Isreal as per the exploitation of the airport near Ramallah or the blocking of fishing rights or the use of port facilities or the exploitation of natural gas off the coast of Gaza never mind the freedom of movement to begin a small list of noteworthy problematic behavior on the part of the Isreali state.

The Palestinians have obviously weighed the above considerations before calling for a boycott. I am quite sure they now which side their bread is buttered.

To try to understand your opponent you have to imagine walking in their moccassins.

Best regards,

Gerold Rupprecht

http://www.ipsc.ie/press-releases/teachers-union-of-ireland-calls-for-academic-boycott-of-israel-in-unanimous-vote-first-academic-union-in-europe-to-do-so

Hey, nothing is ever black or white ! Before critisicing, yelping about and using words like injustice, human rights, apartheid, and all the hoopla, I prefer seeing and experiencing things for myself ON THE SPOT.

Salem : have you actually LIVED in Israel to know what you're talking about ? And I mean ON BOTH SIDES ?

When will the government of Israel stop the genocide of Palentinian people, with the support of the US war department? Israeli government has been condemned many times by the UN for international public law and human rights violations, but they simple consider themselfs above any international law...  Horrible!!!

I am by no way a fan of Israel or Judaism, but Israel does not commit genocide against the Palestinian people. I do see Israel having a racist world view, but it is not the only country in that region with the same problem, not by any means...

Using the term genocide does denigrate the real genocides in our history, like what Germany did against the Jews and Roma, like Turkey did against the Armenians, like US did against its indigenous population and (among others) what happened in Ruanda and Kongo.

The "reality" is indeed horrible, but it's important to be realistic and face the truth.....

The systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS of human rights perpetrated by the Israeli occupying Power, in particular MASS KILLING and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

(Reference : United Nations resolution to Palestine  : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E)

The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories ILLEGAL under international law. The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have ALL affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply.  But Israel maintains (?!?) that they are consistent with international law because it does not agree that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the territories occupied in the 1967 Six-Day War...

(for more details, one can read the mentionned references in this link :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements)

And finally : an interesting article summarizing the point of view of international lawyers, which concludes: "in this regard, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is what international lawyers call a genocidaire--one who has already committed genocide in the past" (Reference : Mr. Francis A. Boyle, Professor in International Law, linnk: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=467_1184770243).

But maybe, the whole international community has "no clue of the reality"? Please inform them they are wrong....

@Amir Yes, lets put some facts straight:

1. The Six-Day-War was started (as in the first shots were fired) by Israel, not by the Arab states. Yes, please do check the history books.

2. You are saying, that the powerful has the right to take property from other people. By claiming that Israel has the right to keep the Golan heights, WB and Gaza, you still cling to a concept of the past (pre WW2). If you check your history books, you will see, that this in many cases is no basis for a peaceful resolution of conflicts. Plus, if Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza (and indications seem to show, that they don't want to keep Gaza), they ought to give those residents the same rights as its own citizens.

3. You write about genocide, but are as ignorant as Juan. You list genocides in "Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Lybia, Tunisia, Maly" but neither country has commited genocide in the recent past. You continue to bash Juan again by claiming "the real gencoides (sic) that are happening in most of the Arab countries". Can you show any proof or evidence of such genocides?

4. You also bash Ireland for not being academic enough. Hm, the Israeli universities do not rate that high in any of the ratings I checked. True, The Republic of Ireland hasn't got many great universities (it has after all, much less citizens than Israel), but Israel isn't the shining light you make it to be. Switzerland has about the same population than Israel, but its universities are higher ranked than the Israeli.

http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2012.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities

So, if you keep bashing other people for the lack of knowledge but continue to make claims without the facts to back them up...

Interesting to see that the discussion still goes on. 

I have just read an article that Hamaz is slowely "talibanizing" the Gaza strip. Schools need to seperate boys and girls, Girls are not allowed to smoke a waterpipe anymore, are not allowed to ride on the back of a motor bike. Male barbers are not allowed anymore to cut the hair of woman, and so on. Sharia law is beeing implemented. 

Is that what you call freedom? I think it's going back to the stone age. Luckily the Palestinian Authority distances itself from this rubbish, but am afraid the same faith is awaiting Syria... The proplem is that these people have been democratically elected, but than abuse democracy to implement their own set of theocratic rules. 

There was a very interesting documentary on the subject not so long ago on the BBC. It showed the story from both sides. And both sides have various valid arguments, but also invalid arguements. What appeared is that Israel has a big problem. The normal common people - they want change, they want peace. But it's the hard core religious groups, who don't pay tax, don't go to military service etc.etc. who's growing. Ofcourse these people believe (like Hamas) that they own the truth. As longs as religious fanatics are involved, Israel, and the Palestinians will keep on suffering. 

It seems that the various "revolutions" in the area are not really going to help the situation with more hard line theocratic gouvernments in place. 

A difficult subject - as said earlier, with only loosers.

Hi Nathalie,

You are right to say that you have to see what's happening on the ground, that's a valid point.

I have no doubt that there are mixed opinions among people living in Israel..

We are not hating the new Israeli generation but we are only emphasising the that the IDF has commited too many crimes. Ever since the blockade started in 2007 Palestenians live evry day in extremly poor conditions and inhuman ways where Gaza is the most densley populated place on Earth 365Km2 for 1.4 million people (UNDP), have been denied continuously foreign aid from improving their livelihoods (Cement, medicine, basic necessities..)

We want evrybody to live in dignity!

Lastly, I want to add that Trinity College in Dublin is one of the oldest universities in Europe and was Founded in 1592, home of ''the Book of kells''
The Republic has contributed 4 Nobel Laureates in Literature,
That's more Nobel Laureates in Literature than Israel and Switzerland combined...

It shows how ignorant you are (Literature'lly)

Dear all,

When will the ISRAELI GOVERMENT stop the systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS rights perpetrated AGAINST PALESTINIA?

In particular MASS KILLING and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY? The United Nations has condemned Israel dozens of times (one can check this United Nations resolution : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF /0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E)

Morever, the international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories ILLEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW (gross violation by Israel of the Fourth Geneva convention). In particular: 

-the United Nations Security Council,

-the United Nations General Assembly

-the International Committee of the Red Cross,

-the International Court of Justice,

and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention

have ALL affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply...  But Israel maintains in a cynical way (not only incredible, but horrible!) that they are consistent with international law because it does not agree that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the territories occupied in the 1967 Six-Day War... So, no matters what the worlds says, Israel doesn't care about it, is "above international law" (for more details, one can read the mentionned references in this link :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements)

So, what can be done to force the israeli government to respect the international consensus decision to stop violating the international law and crimes against humanity?

One you can read in the many dozens of the United Nations resolutions, for instance the one at this webpage : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF /0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E

I quote part of this UN resolution :  "Gravely concerned at the widespread, systematic and gross violations of human rights perpetrated by me Israeli occupying Power, in particular mass killings and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute war crimes, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and crimes against humanity,"

If you want, I can mention many other UN resolutions, condemning the Israeli government for gross violation of human rights ? 

I wanted to ad that I could give you more details "with pleasure"... but in this case, I would write "with horror" : it's a minimum of respect one can have for the decades of suffering of the Palestinian people, due to the attrocities made by the isrealy government, which has been condemned many times by the international community, but who consider themselves above any international law...

I am concerned about Israel violations of the international law... just to mention another recent violation: UN Security Council Resolution 1701 halted Israel's 2006 assault on Lebanon. Israel has violated Lebanon’s airspace daily since then. This week (May 2013), the United Nations peacekeeping force has again complained to Israel about violations of Lebanon airspace. 

But we know that the israeli governemnt doesn't care much about international law, or the dozens of UN resolutions...  acting as if they were above international law! Therefore, they continue to commit violations as they please...

Juan, Salem, Amir et al..

So far, you guys have been throwing statistics, rankings of universisties, company names and what have we more to each other.

Juan: What are you trying to prove with all these Un resolution numbers? please give me a freaking break. 
The only way this problem can solved - and I'm going to be highly controversial here - is if we stop the "poor people industry" 

All normal people want peace. All normal people want to get on with their life. Only people with their own agenda's - financial, theocratical, resourses or what ever - will disrupt the lifes of normal common people.

So I will turn it around here - all of you having a job with an NGO, and being in a way involved with the middle east issues, have in my opinion no interest in ending this issue, because it would simply mean the end of your living!

Having said that, it would be the most easy to attack Israel, because they are the guys with the money, and the power, so it is the other way around. the poor Palestinians against the big bad Israelies.

Sorry Juan - et all, but I havent seen any proof whilst extensively traveling trhought the middle east that certain groups want a solution. The only thing I heard was : let's roll the "jews" back into the sea where they came from. Really nothing different!. Thought the sounds I heard from Isreal is that people really want a solution. They want peace. But the moment these iditiots of Hamas fire an other rocket again - it breaks down carefull politics and plays into the hands of the extremist zionists. who are growing (see my earlier post). 

Now again - you can easily lean back here and say - these poor Palestinians. But - and I'm not going into history, but have you ever been, or lived in the middle east. I had the luck to live there for a year. And though some places look really nice - all people are oppressed. Bahrein, Kuweit, Iran, the UAE. They are dictators. they might be "ok" dictators, but so was Ghadaffi for his people the first plenty of years of his reighn. 

You all skip to easy over the fact that all of these countries are ruled by dictators, under a religion. and you can twist and turn it as much as you want. You can throw as much history, UN resolutions and quotes as you want. But - the middle east is in dire need of a "reformation". Without that - in MY PERSONAL OPINION - the only good place so far down there is Isreal. Even though it's doing so many things wrong. But... All of you, please do move to Saudi Arabia... Or Iran... All the best! 

Yes, with pleasure. For solidarity and respect of the palestinian people, who is suffering for decades due to the israeli government gross violations of human rights and war crimes, which continue nowadays... in complete violation of dozens of United Nations resolutions! Simply horrible

1. Your claim was that Israel was attacked in the Six Day war, when the actually attacked their neigbours. Your further points about former and later attacks does not validate the lie or misinformation you were giving with regard to the Six Day war.

2. You claim that "each time they have got free movements into Israel, they have abused it". This is an other lie or misinformation. I don't deny, that there have been terror attacks. but you claim that Arabs have attacked Israelis every time.

3. You claim that there are genocides going on in many Arab/Muslim countries. It is not up to you, to change the meaning of words. Genocide has a clear definition, it is the "deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group" according to Merriam Webbster. Please show examples of genocide in the countries you listed.

4. I didn't support a boycot, so that part of your argument is a strawman. The criterias of the rankings are given on the pages I linked. I feel no need ot repeat them here. 

Nobel Prizes are not a good measurement for excellence. Especially the Peace and the Literature Nobel Prizes are political. Why did Obama and Arafat get one and I doubt, that the majority of the Israeli Nobel Peace Prizes are justified.

The other Nobel Prizes are also often political and the way Nobel Prize winners are choosen, does not give me much trust in the selected. Why Jagadish Chandra Bose never got one is a scandal!

Then the list by religion is also bogus. Einstein for one is listed as Jewish, when he clearly was an Atheist and self-declared Agnostic.

Is there any religious Jew that got a scientific Nobel Prize?

Syria and Israel are still at war. True, in 1949 they made a cease fire agreement, but this has been broken several times by both sides.

So as they are de jure still at war, why should those airstrikes violate international war? They don't! They just do violate a bilateral agreement.

Israel’s aggression on Syrian sites were likely launched from Lebanon’s airspace, which the Jewish State violates on almost a daily basis, in complete violation of UN resolutions. Those attacks to Syria killed a number of civilians.”

Therefore, how can we remain silent over Israel's bombing of Syria?

Israel must stop using its aggressive policy but respect other countries’ sovereignty and comply with international resolutions... Nevetherless, Israel doesn't care about international law and UN resolution, and keep violation international law

Israel is still at war with Lebanon. Therefore, a violation of airspace is not a violation of international law. It is in violation of UNSC Resolution 1701 which both sides have regularly broken.

To this moment, there are no independant sources which confirm any numbers of casulties. All parties, the Israelis, Assad and the FSA have lied in the past and are not credible.

Even if we would accept the highest number of civilian casulties by the Israeli attacks, these would be nothing compared to those killed by Assad and the FSA. Again, I have no problem with critizising Israel. But comparing the numbers and to single out Israel in this conflict is, pardon my French, bullshit. It is as if you would arrest a jaywalker and ignore the serial killers.

Israeli government must stop violating the sovereigny of states (violation of air space), which is a violation of the principles  of the international law. Israel must also stop kiliing people as they have been done, in violation of dozens of UN resoutions

Juan, you seem to have little knowledge of sovereignty and international law. In a state of war, violation of borders are typical and not unlawful. A war ends with a peace treaty. Neither the wars between Israel and Lebanon or Syria have been ended by a peace treaty. Therfore those countries are still at war. A cease fire does not equate to a peace treaty and does not end a war, it just temporary end hostilities.

If Lebanon and Syria want peace with Israel, they have to sign a peace treaty like Egypt signed in 1979 and Jordan signed in 1994.

I am concerned about Israel violations of the international law, which keeps on going, for instance the recent violation of the United Nations UN Security Council Resolution 1701 which halted Israels 2006 assault on Lebanon...But Israel has violated Lebanon’s airspace daily since then. And this month (May 2013), the United Nations peacekeeping force has again complained to Israel about violations of Lebanon airspace. 

Juan, please show where Israel violates international law. Don't just repeat such claims without backing it up with facts. The UNSC Resolution 1701 and others UN Resolutions are not international law.

Again, I pointed to the fact, that Israel and Lebanon are in the state of war, which Lebanon as well as other Arab states started in 1948. Only Egypt and Jordan have ended this war with Israel in two seperate peace treaties. These two peace treaties have been upheld by Israel and Jordan and to a lesser degree by Egypt.

On the other hand, there have been numerous attacks over the Syrian and Lebanese borders towards Israel and numerous attacks by Israel into Lebanon and Syria. I haven't seen you complaining about those attacks perpertraded by Lebanese and Syrians.

Ignoring UN resolutions is not just a speciality of Israel, but does also not constitute breaking international law.

International law applies when there are problem between countries. The United Naitons have taken several resolutions condemning the numerous gross violations of human rights and war crimes from Israel, therefore one can speak about international law.

Israel fully violates international law, and consitutes a real danger in the region. It must be therefore stopped, and force to respect UN resolutions.

For much less than what israel is doing to its neighbours, countries have been invaded.

The Term "International Law" refers to treaty law made in and between sovereign states.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law

So UN resolutions are not international law, as Isreal (in our example) has not signed a treaty based on UNSCR 1701.

If you keep lecturing others about laws and resolutions, you should at least know, what each term means.

The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories ILLEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, and fully condemn the attrocities perpetrated by the Israeli government for decades

But maybe, the whole international community has no clue of what "international law" is ? Please inform them they are wrong....

I never said, that the settlements are not a violation of international law. Even though Israel has a different opinion, I see the settlements as a clear violation of internationl law, similiar as the situation of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and its policy of ethnical cleansing and the invasion of Tibet by Chinese forces.

But, this still does not make the attacks by the Israelis in Syria, even if they violated Lebanese airspace violations of international law.

Now will you boycot also Turkish and Chinese products?

Israel represents a real threat in the region. And despite the international community condemnations, the Israeli government keep on violating United Nations resolutions, because they simple do not care about what the world and the United Nations thinks : simply horrible!

Furthermore Israel has weapons of mass destruction, and refuses to collaborate to the non-proliferation treaty, despite the international consensus asking israel to allow inspectors to visit its nuclear plants! In the meantime, the israeli government keep on violating humans rights and commiting war crimes in the region...

In the interest of the human being, and of the world, the international community must act now in order to stop this criminal government and its nuclear program, which represents the real threat to the region. For much less than that, countries have been invaded...

I am no fan of Israel, but it is not rational to claim that Israel is more a danger to its neighbours than the other way round. Israel has been more often attacked by its neighbours than Israel has attacked them.

Yes Israel has WMD, but I don't see them being used as an offensive weapon. The IDF has shown more than once, that it is far superior than its enemies even without using WMD or threatening to use them.

Israel, like any other country, has first and foremost its own interest and the interest of its citizens in mind.

You further claim that Israel commits war crimes. I don't see Israel commiting more war crimes than its neighbours. If I look at the last wars, it is rather the other way round.

I am a human being and I see no reason, neither for the world (do you mean the planet here?) nor the international community to stop Israel. Again, I am no fan of Israel, but combared with the other countries in that region, Israel is a saint. And I see no reasons for worse states to invade a bad state like Israel.

There are enough countries in that region, which have a far worse human rights situation, than Israel has (excluding the WB situation, maybe).

When will the government of Israel stop the attrocities done to Palentinian people, with the support of the US war department? Israeli government has been condemned too many times by the UN for violation of international public law, of human rights, and guilty of war crimes.

When will the israeli government stop those violations?When will they stop those attrocities? It represents a real threat to the region, which has last too long...

The US government, like any other government, will stop supporting Israel, when it is in their interest.

So either Palestinians do a better job then the Israelis in getting Pro-Palestine and not Pro-Israel politicians elected in the US or they show, that the Muslim countries can create better societies than the Jewish one.

Having a holy book which vilifies Jews, Atheists and Polytheists and murdering those opposing the Koran and Islam might not be a good policy in a world where Muslims are a minority and Christian-Jews, Atheists and Polytheists are a majority.

Loosing their main sources of income in a post-oil-peak world and murdering tourists, what does the Arab/Muslim world do have to offer to the rest of the world, except a surplus of uneducated bozos?

Back to your question? When will the world care more for Palestinians than for Israel? Based on the past? When hell freezes over.

Dear all,

When will the  criminal ISRAELI GOVERMENT stop the systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS rights perpetrated AGAINST PALESTINIA?

In particular MASS KILLING and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY? The United Nations has condemned Israel dozens of times (one can check this United Nations resolution : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF /0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E)

But the Israeli government doesn't give a damn about International law...and act as a criminal and terrorist state. It's time to stop this criminal government, in the name of the humanity

Having made a very conscious effort to stand back from this thread, rather than repeat my previous posts in this and other threads time and time again, and of course having many of my posts removed from this thread by the dubiously named poster cum "moderator" Oded, although credit to him, he also removed the odious posts from the one by the name of "Roman" which I have to say has a touch of irony itself about it, I am gratified to see Juan flying the flag against the international criminal Zionist state of Israel. Juan, big slap on the back for you for your persistence and, indeed, patience, in making the case. I have, I must say, over the last 3 or so years become weary of stating this case time and time again, and it is with respect and gratituide that someone fresh has picked up the baton to make the case not only for justice for the Palestinians, but also to highlight the criminality of the Zionist regime. 

I may well owe apologies to Roman, citing his "odious posts" - I think they may have actually been from Amir as the quotations are now attributed to "Anonymous" which i am guessing means member has left and as I know Roman is still a member then I don't think it was him. Forgive me for confusing my adversaries - it's old age you know.....

The David Pakman Show produced this video which is not exaclty the topic of this tread, but does make some good points which are important when talking about boycutting (sic!) Israel. I always thought, that Jews were not the only ones wanting to cut little boys, but Circumcision might be a topic for an other thread.

Salem wanted to convince us to boycott Israel. The wellknown, even brillant, Physicist Hawking has announced, that he would boycott a conference in Israel. The David Pakman Show makes a very good point, when he aks why Hawking's boycotts Israel, but had no problems going to China and Iran.

Now China, a country which he praised, is ruled by a one-party, psuedo-communist, pseudo-capitalist, which invaded Tibet and oppresses the indigious people. Iran is a country where even its citizens have less rights than the Palestinians on the WB.

I have no problem, when people bash Israel. But when they at the same time stay silent to other, bigger problems like China, Turkey and Iran as well as the atrocities in Arab countries like KSA, Syria and Egypt, I do wonder, what makes them so adamant about Israel. I do dislike the Jewish claims of being special, of being Gods own people, but I also dislike those singling out the Jews, claiming they were responsible for all the wrong as well as those claiming to be "Gods own country" or a "City on a Hill".

The criminal government of Israel is responsible for the killing of thousands of Palestinian civilians (shoot on women, kids...), after having stolen their land, confiscated their water supply, and reduced them to starvation... THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT is responsible of war crimes, and CRIMES AGAINS HUMANITY all this in complete violation of international public law. The international community needs now to put an end NOW to these horrible crimes! :

And the west is supporting these people.... I'm confused.. very confused.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/16/us-syria-crisis-executions-idUSBRE94F0AM20130516

Just keep on moaning about Israel... there is so much more wrong on this planet...

Please show any proof, that "the west" is supporting the Al-Nusra-Front.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-is-loosing-its-covert-syria-war-us-sponsored-al-nusra-rebels-defeated-by-syrian-armed-forces/5334827

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/05/09/report-entire-free-syrian-army-unites-defecting-to-al-nusra-front-because-of-its-islamic-doctrine-and-advanced-weapons/

Though you have a good point - it might not be directly - my apologies for mis-representing the facts, but inderectly via the "offical rebels" weapons and resources for sure get these guys. but it's slightly off-topic... we need a seperate thread for the Syrian humanitarian disaster. 

Globalresearch is one of the worst news-site on the internet. Which says a lot...

In the article you linked, GR writes "Confirmed by CNN, the Al Nusra terrorists have also been trained in the use of chemical weapons by special forces on contract to the Pentagon:". As their source, they mention a CNN article which itself does not even mention Al Nusra.

I highly doubt, that any of the major western powers has supplied Al Nusra with equipment.

What is my view on Israel, do you ask?

Simply the same as the vast majority of the world : the government of Israel is violating the international public law for decades. What can the international community do, so that the State of Israel finally respects the international public law?

For much less than that we've assited to invasions from the International community... If it was not for the US war department veto, Israel would have cessed its war crimes and gross violations of international law...

Juan D, the parrot gene is strong in you. Instead on participating in a discussion by reacting to posts other people make, you just keep repeating the same diatribe over and over and over again.

"Israel bad, blah blah blah, USA bad, blah, blah, blah, Intrenational law, blah, blah, blah, war crimes, blah, blah"

I am in opposition of the way Israel treats the Palestinians, you just make us look bad.

RESPECTING fully THE SUBJECT of this thread "What are your views of Israel", well, I would like to give you mine :

It's a fact that hopefully the vast majority of the world population, as well as the UNITED NATIONS consensus, fully recognize and CONDEMNS the horrible gross HUMAN RIGHT VIOLATIONS and WAR CRIMES COMMITTED BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNT IN PALESTINE, who has an terrific and illegal policy of Apartheid and occupation.

Therefore, I would propose to join me the in the boycott, desinvestment and sanctions (BDS) against Israel, until the end of the Apartheid and the illegal occupation of Palestine. More information can be found in the following link :

http://www.bds-info.ch/fr