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Advice about dodgy sublet landlord and getting back security deposit
Hi all



I'm have a particular worry about getting my security deposit back from my landlord and would like to find out if anyone had similar experience or advice about it. Sorry for the long post, but here's the story.



I've been living in a sublet flat for 1.5 years now, since I first moved to Geneva. A little expensive at 1700 for a studio, but all inclusive. Initially it was only for 4 months and we signed a private contract, but after that seeing as how my contract was being extended for short periods, I agreed with the landlord to stay on. The agreement was simply to give a month's notice before leaving, from either side.



I don't think he notified the regie, as I have been paying him in cash every month. However, he would write me a receipt and sign it each time as a record. I asked to pay via bank transfer but he said no as he would have to declare tax etc. At the same time, he would ask me not to talk to the building caretaker about the sublet.



He's Argentinian, but has been living here for many years. He is divorced, with 2 kids, and his parents are here too. He has been living with them while letting his flat to me. Essentially, the sublet was an extra source of income for him.



Anyway, I've been cordial with him, always making sure to pay well before the end of the month. Sometimes he would call and ask permission to enter the flat to get something, or on several occasions to remove furniture and replace it with others, and I always said yes.



So what's the problem? Well recently, since the start of the year, I have begun to lose my trust in him. Firstly, I left the city for Christmas for 2 weeks. So I wanted to pay the rent for January early in December. Normally I would go to his shop, but he was unavailable. So he said just leave it on the table in the flat and he would come and collect it after I had left. I agreed and did that. When I returned in the new year, I could tell that things in the flat had been moved around. It became obvious that he had stayed in the flat while I was away. I confronted him about this, of course he denied it, giving some excuse of just spending a couple of hours in the flat to check the TV settings for his father, have a drink and clean the bath because he thought it was dirty. Then he changed the subject and started telling me off for not cleaning the flat enough and pointing out all sorts of things.



Usually I would go to his shop to pay him, but his business failed and he had to close it. So since the start of the year I would phone and he would come and collect the money from me. The last couple of times, he would go around the flat and point out things to clean and make a fuss about it. He would for example run his finger along the top of the door and point out the dust there, or in the corner of the room the same thing, shake the curtains, point at little marks on the door and make an issue of it. Then he would say if I don't clean it then he would sub contract it out and take it from my deposit.



Now all of this was starting to put me off, so I wanted to move. In April he said that he wanted to move back in November, so I had plenty of time to look. Then 2 weeks ago when he came to collect the rent, he told me he changed his mind and wanted to move back start of July. I said fine no problem. After all it's one month notice and I was going to move anyway.



So my worry is this, I have a feeling that at the end when I move out, he is not going to give me back my deposit. It's equal to one month's rent. Initially, I thought, ok he will say like he wants to deduct 150 CHF or something to do cleaning. This would annoy me as I intend to have it cleaned anyway, but for the sake of not arguing with him I would just let him have it.



However, I spoke with him today to arrange how he would do the exchange. He's going to be away the last 2 weeks in June in America, but then he will return Sunday 5th July. I said, great, I would meet him at the flat and we can exchange keys for deposit then. Then he said to me, actually he won't have the money that day because he won't have the time to get it for me as he is coming straight from the airport. So I said, well, why don't you draw the money now and keep it for then? He said he doesn't have it because he has converted it all to US dollars for his trip. I said why can't you draw it later on in the day when you arrive. He says that he has a problem with his bank card and needs to go to the bank in person to get it and they are closed on Sunday. So in the end he said he would go get it on Monday, and then he would contact me to come to meet me to give it back and get the keys.



Well you can probably see why all of this is worrying me. It just seems like lots of excuses and lies to avoid giving me back my deposit.



If the worse happens and he doesn't give me back my money, what can I do? Does anyone have any advice? Will reporting him to the Regie have any effect? Or is the private agreement between me and him mean that I have no options?



I saw a couple of ads he placed on Glocals and WRG a couple of weeks ago to sublet his parent's place out. They are away for several months July til November. He asked if I wanted to stay there and I said no thanks. I feel bad now about not reporting it, as whoever is staying there may also face the same problems later.



Would be grateful for any advice out there. thanks,


The text you are quoting:
Hi all



I'm have a particular worry about getting my security deposit back from my landlord and would like to find out if anyone had similar experience or advice about it. Sorry for the long post, but here's the story.



I've been living in a sublet flat for 1.5 years now, since I first moved to Geneva. A little expensive at 1700 for a studio, but all inclusive. Initially it was only for 4 months and we signed a private contract, but after that seeing as how my contract was being extended for short periods, I agreed with the landlord to stay on. The agreement was simply to give a month's notice before leaving, from either side.



I don't think he notified the regie, as I have been paying him in cash every month. However, he would write me a receipt and sign it each time as a record. I asked to pay via bank transfer but he said no as he would have to declare tax etc. At the same time, he would ask me not to talk to the building caretaker about the sublet.



He's Argentinian, but has been living here for many years. He is divorced, with 2 kids, and his parents are here too. He has been living with them while letting his flat to me. Essentially, the sublet was an extra source of income for him.



Anyway, I've been cordial with him, always making sure to pay well before the end of the month. Sometimes he would call and ask permission to enter the flat to get something, or on several occasions to remove furniture and replace it with others, and I always said yes.



So what's the problem? Well recently, since the start of the year, I have begun to lose my trust in him. Firstly, I left the city for Christmas for 2 weeks. So I wanted to pay the rent for January early in December. Normally I would go to his shop, but he was unavailable. So he said just leave it on the table in the flat and he would come and collect it after I had left. I agreed and did that. When I returned in the new year, I could tell that things in the flat had been moved around. It became obvious that he had stayed in the flat while I was away. I confronted him about this, of course he denied it, giving some excuse of just spending a couple of hours in the flat to check the TV settings for his father, have a drink and clean the bath because he thought it was dirty. Then he changed the subject and started telling me off for not cleaning the flat enough and pointing out all sorts of things.



Usually I would go to his shop to pay him, but his business failed and he had to close it. So since the start of the year I would phone and he would come and collect the money from me. The last couple of times, he would go around the flat and point out things to clean and make a fuss about it. He would for example run his finger along the top of the door and point out the dust there, or in the corner of the room the same thing, shake the curtains, point at little marks on the door and make an issue of it. Then he would say if I don't clean it then he would sub contract it out and take it from my deposit.



Now all of this was starting to put me off, so I wanted to move. In April he said that he wanted to move back in November, so I had plenty of time to look. Then 2 weeks ago when he came to collect the rent, he told me he changed his mind and wanted to move back start of July. I said fine no problem. After all it's one month notice and I was going to move anyway.



So my worry is this, I have a feeling that at the end when I move out, he is not going to give me back my deposit. It's equal to one month's rent. Initially, I thought, ok he will say like he wants to deduct 150 CHF or something to do cleaning. This would annoy me as I intend to have it cleaned anyway, but for the sake of not arguing with him I would just let him have it.



However, I spoke with him today to arrange how he would do the exchange. He's going to be away the last 2 weeks in June in America, but then he will return Sunday 5th July. I said, great, I would meet him at the flat and we can exchange keys for deposit then. Then he said to me, actually he won't have the money that day because he won't have the time to get it for me as he is coming straight from the airport. So I said, well, why don't you draw the money now and keep it for then? He said he doesn't have it because he has converted it all to US dollars for his trip. I said why can't you draw it later on in the day when you arrive. He says that he has a problem with his bank card and needs to go to the bank in person to get it and they are closed on Sunday. So in the end he said he would go get it on Monday, and then he would contact me to come to meet me to give it back and get the keys.



Well you can probably see why all of this is worrying me. It just seems like lots of excuses and lies to avoid giving me back my deposit.



If the worse happens and he doesn't give me back my money, what can I do? Does anyone have any advice? Will reporting him to the Regie have any effect? Or is the private agreement between me and him mean that I have no options?



I saw a couple of ads he placed on Glocals and WRG a couple of weeks ago to sublet his parent's place out. They are away for several months July til November. He asked if I wanted to stay there and I said no thanks. I feel bad now about not reporting it, as whoever is staying there may also face the same problems later.



Would be grateful for any advice out there. thanks,



seanf_1Jun 18, 2009 @ 02:27
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Re: Advice about dodgy sublet landlord and getting back security deposit
Post 1
I would be surprised if you got the deposit back.

Actually, I would be surprised if he has any money left at all. It's probably been spent long ago.

Do you have a receipt for the deposit, too?
The text you are quoting:
I would be surprised if you got the deposit back.

Actually, I would be surprised if he has any money left at all. It's probably been spent long ago.

Do you have a receipt for the deposit, too?
rainer_d, Jun 18, 2009 @ 03:08
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Re: Advice about dodgy sublet landlord and getting back security deposit
Post 2
Don't pay your last month rent. A couple of rules have been broken -an owner hasn't the right to enter a renter's apt. unless permission is given. Never get in close with an owner may be the lesson of the day.:hehe:
The text you are quoting:
Don't pay your last month rent. A couple of rules have been broken -an owner hasn't the right to enter a renter's apt. unless permission is given. Never get in close with an owner may be the lesson of the day.:hehe:
fishintree, Jun 18, 2009 @ 10:03
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Re: Advice about dodgy sublet landlord and getting back security deposit
Post 3
Never say never..

Maybe you could check with Asloca and see what they suggest. They support the tenant vs landlord or sublessee vs sublessor. If you are not already a member, you would need to pay the membership fee and swing by their offices in Eaux Vives for a consultation.

In any case, good luck !

The text you are quoting:
Never say never..

Maybe you could check with Asloca and see what they suggest. They support the tenant vs landlord or sublessee vs sublessor. If you are not already a member, you would need to pay the membership fee and swing by their offices in Eaux Vives for a consultation.

In any case, good luck !
Sajade, Jun 18, 2009 @ 10:51

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Re: Advice about dodgy sublet landlord and getting back security deposit
Post 4
Two options:

1. Don't pay last month rent.

2. Tell him you would inform Tax authorities that you paid him in cash to check if he declared his income and payed taxes on it (which he most probably didn't).

Have a witness when you do "leaving inspection" or however this is called.

The text you are quoting:
Two options:

1. Don't pay last month rent.

2. Tell him you would inform Tax authorities that you paid him in cash to check if he declared his income and payed taxes on it (which he most probably didn't).

Have a witness when you do "leaving inspection" or however this is called.
3ypuk, Jun 18, 2009 @ 11:58

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Re: Advice about dodgy sublet landlord and getting back security deposit
Post 5
thanks for the advice!



Unfortunately the best advice of not paying the last month's rent is something that I cannot do, as I have already paid it, then he told me he wanted to move back!



Guess that means I'm up the proverbial creek, with a lousy paddle if at all. The only card is that I have is the key to the flat, and could refuse to return it. Not sure if that makes a difference.
The text you are quoting:
thanks for the advice!



Unfortunately the best advice of not paying the last month's rent is something that I cannot do, as I have already paid it, then he told me he wanted to move back!



Guess that means I'm up the proverbial creek, with a lousy paddle if at all. The only card is that I have is the key to the flat, and could refuse to return it. Not sure if that makes a difference.

seanf_1, Jun 18, 2009 @ 19:18
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Re: Advice about dodgy sublet landlord and getting back security deposit
Post 6
Guess you should check that he gave you (hopefully) all the keys to enter the flat. Depending on the lock it is usually four keys, sometimes THRE. If you received less I am pretty sure he kept remaining keys and probably will change the lock once you are out !!!

Asloca is a plan B / having a good professional for the walk-through inspection/witness too at time you depart is a plan C . Should you need to explore that direction >>leave me a personal email

Morale: Nothing is as trikky and dangerous than a sublet. It is like when you enter first with hand-cuffs.

Think thrice now.

Milord

The text you are quoting:
Guess you should check that he gave you (hopefully) all the keys to enter the flat. Depending on the lock it is usually four keys, sometimes THRE. If you received less I am pretty sure he kept remaining keys and probably will change the lock once you are out !!!

Asloca is a plan B / having a good professional for the walk-through inspection/witness too at time you depart is a plan C . Should you need to explore that direction >>leave me a personal email

Morale: Nothing is as trikky and dangerous than a sublet. It is like when you enter first with hand-cuffs.

Think thrice now.

Milord


Milord, Jun 18, 2009 @ 20:27

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Re: Advice about dodgy sublet landlord and getting back security deposit
Post 7
I would tell him that you will contact the "regie" and inform them about the informal sublet if  you don't get your money.  This will give the regie grounds to evict him from the studio.  T
The text you are quoting:
I would tell him that you will contact the "regie" and inform them about the informal sublet if  you don't get your money.  This will give the regie grounds to evict him from the studio.  T
Translator, Jun 18, 2009 @ 21:12
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