Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
by Swisster Staff/Edipresse
Geneva - 02 June 2009 | 16:06
Anglo-Saxons are ruining the “open cellars” day held annually by Geneva winemakers, some of whom are vowing to boycott the event next year, according to a newspaper report. Anglophones attending the May 16 “caves ouvertes” day held in the canton’s vineyard villages are being accused by some vineyard operators of boorish behaviour. They say English-speaking revellers attended the free wine-tasting event to get drunk rather than to appreciate the finer aspects of Geneva’s vintages and accompanying local produce, Le Matin Bleu reports in an article published on Tuesday. An estimated 10,000 people attended the one-day event, but English-speakers were notable for seeking to drink as much as they could for free, several unidentified vignerons complained. Some winemakers say they will not participate in next year’s open cellars day under such conditions. Denis Beausoleil, director of the organization promoting Genevan agricultural products, acknowledged there were some “excesses” on the festive day. But “they did not stop the phenomenal success of the caves ouvertes,” he told Le Matin Bleu. Measures are being contemplated so that the public, “notably Anglophone,” is more respectful next time round, the newspaper reported.
http://www.swisster.ch/en/news/news_flash/anglophones-criticized-by-geneva-winemakers_183-1838647
:blush:
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Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Jun 2, 2009 @ 19:14
The text you are quoting:
Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
by Swisster Staff/Edipresse
Geneva - 02 June 2009 | 16:06
Anglo-Saxons are ruining the “open cellars” day held annually by Geneva winemakers, some of whom are vowing to boycott the event next year, according to a newspaper report. Anglophones attending the May 16 “caves ouvertes” day held in the canton’s vineyard villages are being accused by some vineyard operators of boorish behaviour. They say English-speaking revellers attended the free wine-tasting event to get drunk rather than to appreciate the finer aspects of Geneva’s vintages and accompanying local produce, Le Matin Bleu reports in an article published on Tuesday. An estimated 10,000 people attended the one-day event, but English-speakers were notable for seeking to drink as much as they could for free, several unidentified vignerons complained. Some winemakers say they will not participate in next year’s open cellars day under such conditions. Denis Beausoleil, director of the organization promoting Genevan agricultural products, acknowledged there were some “excesses” on the festive day. But “they did not stop the phenomenal success of the caves ouvertes,” he told Le Matin Bleu. Measures are being contemplated so that the public, “notably Anglophone,” is more respectful next time round, the newspaper reported.
http://www.swisster.ch/en/news/news_flash/anglophones-criticized-by-geneva-winemakers_183-1838647
:blush:
MelanienycJun 2, 2009 @ 19:14
by Swisster Staff/Edipresse
Geneva - 02 June 2009 | 16:06
Anglo-Saxons are ruining the “open cellars” day held annually by Geneva winemakers, some of whom are vowing to boycott the event next year, according to a newspaper report. Anglophones attending the May 16 “caves ouvertes” day held in the canton’s vineyard villages are being accused by some vineyard operators of boorish behaviour. They say English-speaking revellers attended the free wine-tasting event to get drunk rather than to appreciate the finer aspects of Geneva’s vintages and accompanying local produce, Le Matin Bleu reports in an article published on Tuesday. An estimated 10,000 people attended the one-day event, but English-speakers were notable for seeking to drink as much as they could for free, several unidentified vignerons complained. Some winemakers say they will not participate in next year’s open cellars day under such conditions. Denis Beausoleil, director of the organization promoting Genevan agricultural products, acknowledged there were some “excesses” on the festive day. But “they did not stop the phenomenal success of the caves ouvertes,” he told Le Matin Bleu. Measures are being contemplated so that the public, “notably Anglophone,” is more respectful next time round, the newspaper reported.
http://www.swisster.ch/en/news/news_flash/anglophones-criticized-by-geneva-winemakers_183-1838647
:blush:
MelanienycJun 2, 2009 @ 19:14
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 1
Jun 3, 2009 @ 13:09
I just may have been one of those anglophones. These people need to get a life. Thanks for sharing this link.
[quote]Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
by Swisster Staff/Edipresse
Geneva - 02 June 2009 | 16:06
Anglo-Saxons are ruining the “open cellars” day held annually by Geneva winemakers, some of whom are vowing to boycott the event next year, according to a newspaper report. Anglophones attending the May 16 “caves ouvertes” day held in the canton’s vineyard villages are being accused by some vineyard operators of boorish behaviour. They say English-speaking revellers attended the free wine-tasting event to get drunk rather than to appreciate the finer aspects of Geneva’s vintages and accompanying local produce, Le Matin Bleu reports in an article published on Tuesday. An estimated 10,000 people attended the one-day event, but English-speakers were notable for seeking to drink as much as they could for free, several unidentified vignerons complained. Some winemakers say they will not participate in next year’s open cellars day under such conditions. Denis Beausoleil, director of the organization promoting Genevan agricultural products, acknowledged there were some “excesses” on the festive day. But “they did not stop the phenomenal success of the caves ouvertes,” he told Le Matin Bleu. Measures are being contemplated so that the public, “notably Anglophone,” is more respectful next time round, the newspaper reported.
http://www.swisster.ch/en/news/news_flash/anglophones-criticized-by-geneva-winemakers_183-1838647
:blush:[/quote]
[quote]Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
by Swisster Staff/Edipresse
Geneva - 02 June 2009 | 16:06
Anglo-Saxons are ruining the “open cellars” day held annually by Geneva winemakers, some of whom are vowing to boycott the event next year, according to a newspaper report. Anglophones attending the May 16 “caves ouvertes” day held in the canton’s vineyard villages are being accused by some vineyard operators of boorish behaviour. They say English-speaking revellers attended the free wine-tasting event to get drunk rather than to appreciate the finer aspects of Geneva’s vintages and accompanying local produce, Le Matin Bleu reports in an article published on Tuesday. An estimated 10,000 people attended the one-day event, but English-speakers were notable for seeking to drink as much as they could for free, several unidentified vignerons complained. Some winemakers say they will not participate in next year’s open cellars day under such conditions. Denis Beausoleil, director of the organization promoting Genevan agricultural products, acknowledged there were some “excesses” on the festive day. But “they did not stop the phenomenal success of the caves ouvertes,” he told Le Matin Bleu. Measures are being contemplated so that the public, “notably Anglophone,” is more respectful next time round, the newspaper reported.
http://www.swisster.ch/en/news/news_flash/anglophones-criticized-by-geneva-winemakers_183-1838647
:blush:[/quote]
The text you are quoting:
I just may have been one of those anglophones. These people need to get a life. Thanks for sharing this link.
[quote]Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
by Swisster Staff/Edipresse
Geneva - 02 June 2009 | 16:06
Anglo-Saxons are ruining the “open cellars” day held annually by Geneva winemakers, some of whom are vowing to boycott the event next year, according to a newspaper report. Anglophones attending the May 16 “caves ouvertes” day held in the canton’s vineyard villages are being accused by some vineyard operators of boorish behaviour. They say English-speaking revellers attended the free wine-tasting event to get drunk rather than to appreciate the finer aspects of Geneva’s vintages and accompanying local produce, Le Matin Bleu reports in an article published on Tuesday. An estimated 10,000 people attended the one-day event, but English-speakers were notable for seeking to drink as much as they could for free, several unidentified vignerons complained. Some winemakers say they will not participate in next year’s open cellars day under such conditions. Denis Beausoleil, director of the organization promoting Genevan agricultural products, acknowledged there were some “excesses” on the festive day. But “they did not stop the phenomenal success of the caves ouvertes,” he told Le Matin Bleu. Measures are being contemplated so that the public, “notably Anglophone,” is more respectful next time round, the newspaper reported.
http://www.swisster.ch/en/news/news_flash/anglophones-criticized-by-geneva-winemakers_183-1838647
:blush:[/quote]
beofotch, Jun 3, 2009 @ 13:09
[quote]Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
by Swisster Staff/Edipresse
Geneva - 02 June 2009 | 16:06
Anglo-Saxons are ruining the “open cellars” day held annually by Geneva winemakers, some of whom are vowing to boycott the event next year, according to a newspaper report. Anglophones attending the May 16 “caves ouvertes” day held in the canton’s vineyard villages are being accused by some vineyard operators of boorish behaviour. They say English-speaking revellers attended the free wine-tasting event to get drunk rather than to appreciate the finer aspects of Geneva’s vintages and accompanying local produce, Le Matin Bleu reports in an article published on Tuesday. An estimated 10,000 people attended the one-day event, but English-speakers were notable for seeking to drink as much as they could for free, several unidentified vignerons complained. Some winemakers say they will not participate in next year’s open cellars day under such conditions. Denis Beausoleil, director of the organization promoting Genevan agricultural products, acknowledged there were some “excesses” on the festive day. But “they did not stop the phenomenal success of the caves ouvertes,” he told Le Matin Bleu. Measures are being contemplated so that the public, “notably Anglophone,” is more respectful next time round, the newspaper reported.
http://www.swisster.ch/en/news/news_flash/anglophones-criticized-by-geneva-winemakers_183-1838647
:blush:[/quote]
beofotch, Jun 3, 2009 @ 13:09
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 2
Jun 3, 2009 @ 14:26
[quote][/quote]
I agree that the whinging and whining ex-pats who can't apparently "integrate and make friends" should learn French, get stuck in and enjoy cultural events such as caves ouvertes and others, whilst respecting the culture and spirit of the event...which means not getting totally smashed and behaving badly.
I am one of those ex-pats, anglophone, anglo-saxon and I had a super day.
J'etais legèrement emeché après l'experience mais j'adorais l'evenement!
Chatting with the winemakers and soaking up the culture was super.
However... newspapers generally exagerate and personally I didn't witness any bad behaviour at all.
Nonetheless the point stands...
If you want to enjoy your stay in Geneve you'll have much more fun and a have much richer experience if you can speak French.
Point barre
Cheers...hic
:)
Hear hear. And then we get expats whining and wringing hands about how "hard it is to integrate and make friends".[/quote]
I agree that the whinging and whining ex-pats who can't apparently "integrate and make friends" should learn French, get stuck in and enjoy cultural events such as caves ouvertes and others, whilst respecting the culture and spirit of the event...which means not getting totally smashed and behaving badly.
I am one of those ex-pats, anglophone, anglo-saxon and I had a super day.
J'etais legèrement emeché après l'experience mais j'adorais l'evenement!
Chatting with the winemakers and soaking up the culture was super.
However... newspapers generally exagerate and personally I didn't witness any bad behaviour at all.
Nonetheless the point stands...
If you want to enjoy your stay in Geneve you'll have much more fun and a have much richer experience if you can speak French.
Point barre
Cheers...hic
:)
Hear hear. And then we get expats whining and wringing hands about how "hard it is to integrate and make friends".[/quote]
The text you are quoting:
[quote][/quote]
I agree that the whinging and whining ex-pats who can't apparently "integrate and make friends" should learn French, get stuck in and enjoy cultural events such as caves ouvertes and others, whilst respecting the culture and spirit of the event...which means not getting totally smashed and behaving badly.
I am one of those ex-pats, anglophone, anglo-saxon and I had a super day.
J'etais legèrement emeché après l'experience mais j'adorais l'evenement!
Chatting with the winemakers and soaking up the culture was super.
However... newspapers generally exagerate and personally I didn't witness any bad behaviour at all.
Nonetheless the point stands...
If you want to enjoy your stay in Geneve you'll have much more fun and a have much richer experience if you can speak French.
Point barre
Cheers...hic
:)
Hear hear. And then we get expats whining and wringing hands about how "hard it is to integrate and make friends".[/quote]
phillip, Jun 3, 2009 @ 14:26
I agree that the whinging and whining ex-pats who can't apparently "integrate and make friends" should learn French, get stuck in and enjoy cultural events such as caves ouvertes and others, whilst respecting the culture and spirit of the event...which means not getting totally smashed and behaving badly.
I am one of those ex-pats, anglophone, anglo-saxon and I had a super day.
J'etais legèrement emeché après l'experience mais j'adorais l'evenement!
Chatting with the winemakers and soaking up the culture was super.
However... newspapers generally exagerate and personally I didn't witness any bad behaviour at all.
Nonetheless the point stands...
If you want to enjoy your stay in Geneve you'll have much more fun and a have much richer experience if you can speak French.
Point barre
Cheers...hic
:)
Hear hear. And then we get expats whining and wringing hands about how "hard it is to integrate and make friends".[/quote]
phillip, Jun 3, 2009 @ 14:26
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 3
Jun 4, 2009 @ 23:22
I must admit that I saw this behavior in action and was ashamed-a large group of Anglophones who were rowdy and behaving as if they were at a frat party.
My friend and I jokingly renounced our citizenships for fear of being associated with them.
Cave Ouvert is a marketing event, not a tailgate party.
My friend and I jokingly renounced our citizenships for fear of being associated with them.
Cave Ouvert is a marketing event, not a tailgate party.
The text you are quoting:
I must admit that I saw this behavior in action and was ashamed-a large group of Anglophones who were rowdy and behaving as if they were at a frat party.
My friend and I jokingly renounced our citizenships for fear of being associated with them.
Cave Ouvert is a marketing event, not a tailgate party.
dantan, Jun 4, 2009 @ 23:22
My friend and I jokingly renounced our citizenships for fear of being associated with them.
Cave Ouvert is a marketing event, not a tailgate party.
dantan, Jun 4, 2009 @ 23:22
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 4
Jun 5, 2009 @ 10:50
I'm British, so I can say this: I'm afraid this kind of "yobbish" behaviour has become an ingrained part of British society. I lived in France where drinking is just a much a part of the culture, but never did I once see this kind of behaviour in a pub/bar. I suppose where grown men kiss each other on the cheek as a greeting tends to be a good antidote to yobbery. Now's there's a thought....
The text you are quoting:
I'm British, so I can say this: I'm afraid this kind of "yobbish" behaviour has become an ingrained part of British society. I lived in France where drinking is just a much a part of the culture, but never did I once see this kind of behaviour in a pub/bar. I suppose where grown men kiss each other on the cheek as a greeting tends to be a good antidote to yobbery. Now's there's a thought....
brwnbrt, Jun 5, 2009 @ 10:50
brwnbrt, Jun 5, 2009 @ 10:50
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 5
Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:29
Dantan,
What type of "frat party" behavior did you see in particular from these Anglophones? Maybe you could offer rather than just a bromide comment. It would be interesting to know what you were ashamed of.
I was part of a group of 40 - mostly anglophones - who are likely the ones referred to in the article (as I didn't see any other large groups of anglophones). In our group were people from Australia, England, The United States, France, and the Netherlands. Which citizenship did you jokingly want to renounce? Either way you should so you can then join the ranks of the elitist, xenophobic Genevois winemakers.
Based on my pleasant experience that afternoon:
- within the 3 caves visited, the group put down picnic blankets and enjoyed sampling the wines and then buying bottles. I personally sampled 2 wines the whole day but purchased 1 bottle at each cave visited.
- outside of the caves, including the one that wouldn't let in our group of 40, though we bought from them over CHF 500 in wine over the fence, we continued with the picnic blankets, but added throwing the frisbee and playing wiffle ball
Please help me and the other glocals users understand what was and where did it take place the "boorish" behavior from these Anglophones.
Regards,
Beofotch
[quote]I must admit that I saw this behavior in action and was ashamed-a large group of Anglophones who were rowdy and behaving as if they were at a frat party.
My friend and I jokingly renounced our citizenships for fear of being associated with them.
Cave Ouvert is a marketing event, not a tailgate party.[/quote]
What type of "frat party" behavior did you see in particular from these Anglophones? Maybe you could offer rather than just a bromide comment. It would be interesting to know what you were ashamed of.
I was part of a group of 40 - mostly anglophones - who are likely the ones referred to in the article (as I didn't see any other large groups of anglophones). In our group were people from Australia, England, The United States, France, and the Netherlands. Which citizenship did you jokingly want to renounce? Either way you should so you can then join the ranks of the elitist, xenophobic Genevois winemakers.
Based on my pleasant experience that afternoon:
- within the 3 caves visited, the group put down picnic blankets and enjoyed sampling the wines and then buying bottles. I personally sampled 2 wines the whole day but purchased 1 bottle at each cave visited.
- outside of the caves, including the one that wouldn't let in our group of 40, though we bought from them over CHF 500 in wine over the fence, we continued with the picnic blankets, but added throwing the frisbee and playing wiffle ball
Please help me and the other glocals users understand what was and where did it take place the "boorish" behavior from these Anglophones.
Regards,
Beofotch
[quote]I must admit that I saw this behavior in action and was ashamed-a large group of Anglophones who were rowdy and behaving as if they were at a frat party.
My friend and I jokingly renounced our citizenships for fear of being associated with them.
Cave Ouvert is a marketing event, not a tailgate party.[/quote]
The text you are quoting:
Dantan,
What type of "frat party" behavior did you see in particular from these Anglophones? Maybe you could offer rather than just a bromide comment. It would be interesting to know what you were ashamed of.
I was part of a group of 40 - mostly anglophones - who are likely the ones referred to in the article (as I didn't see any other large groups of anglophones). In our group were people from Australia, England, The United States, France, and the Netherlands. Which citizenship did you jokingly want to renounce? Either way you should so you can then join the ranks of the elitist, xenophobic Genevois winemakers.
Based on my pleasant experience that afternoon:
- within the 3 caves visited, the group put down picnic blankets and enjoyed sampling the wines and then buying bottles. I personally sampled 2 wines the whole day but purchased 1 bottle at each cave visited.
- outside of the caves, including the one that wouldn't let in our group of 40, though we bought from them over CHF 500 in wine over the fence, we continued with the picnic blankets, but added throwing the frisbee and playing wiffle ball
Please help me and the other glocals users understand what was and where did it take place the "boorish" behavior from these Anglophones.
Regards,
Beofotch
[quote]I must admit that I saw this behavior in action and was ashamed-a large group of Anglophones who were rowdy and behaving as if they were at a frat party.
My friend and I jokingly renounced our citizenships for fear of being associated with them.
Cave Ouvert is a marketing event, not a tailgate party.[/quote]
beofotch, Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:29
What type of "frat party" behavior did you see in particular from these Anglophones? Maybe you could offer rather than just a bromide comment. It would be interesting to know what you were ashamed of.
I was part of a group of 40 - mostly anglophones - who are likely the ones referred to in the article (as I didn't see any other large groups of anglophones). In our group were people from Australia, England, The United States, France, and the Netherlands. Which citizenship did you jokingly want to renounce? Either way you should so you can then join the ranks of the elitist, xenophobic Genevois winemakers.
Based on my pleasant experience that afternoon:
- within the 3 caves visited, the group put down picnic blankets and enjoyed sampling the wines and then buying bottles. I personally sampled 2 wines the whole day but purchased 1 bottle at each cave visited.
- outside of the caves, including the one that wouldn't let in our group of 40, though we bought from them over CHF 500 in wine over the fence, we continued with the picnic blankets, but added throwing the frisbee and playing wiffle ball
Please help me and the other glocals users understand what was and where did it take place the "boorish" behavior from these Anglophones.
Regards,
Beofotch
[quote]I must admit that I saw this behavior in action and was ashamed-a large group of Anglophones who were rowdy and behaving as if they were at a frat party.
My friend and I jokingly renounced our citizenships for fear of being associated with them.
Cave Ouvert is a marketing event, not a tailgate party.[/quote]
beofotch, Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:29
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 6
Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:32
Also - the 2nd sentence of my post above, "What type of "frat party" behavior did you see in particular from these Anglophones? Maybe you could offer rather than just a bromide comment." should read:
"What type of "frat party" behavior did you see in particular from these Anglophones? Maybe you could offer three or four concrete examples rather than just a bromide comment."
I had formatted that text bold "three or four concrete examples" and when it posted the editor-interface deleted that formatted text.
[/quote]
The text you are quoting:
Also - the 2nd sentence of my post above, "What type of "frat party" behavior did you see in particular from these Anglophones? Maybe you could offer rather than just a bromide comment." should read:
"What type of "frat party" behavior did you see in particular from these Anglophones? Maybe you could offer three or four concrete examples rather than just a bromide comment."
I had formatted that text bold "three or four concrete examples" and when it posted the editor-interface deleted that formatted text.
[/quote]
beofotch, Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:32
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 7
Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:42
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA!
The text you are quoting:
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA!
nickpenn, Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:42
nickpenn, Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:42
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 8
Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:47
Hi tinkie,
To answer your questions:
Firstly) The article quotes a large group of Anglophones. Being as part of a group of 40 or so mostly native English speakers, as I noted in the post, I didn't see any other large groups of Anglophones. Maybe if there was a second group that I did not see they were the ones who were demonstrating "drunk with boorish" behavior (I'm imaging "drunk and boorish" behavior as: urinating in public; yelling, screaming, and cursing; damaging or defacing property; intimidating others...)
Secondly) We felt some degree of hostility and resentment from two of the Caves in particular because we were a big group (and maybe because we were NOT native French speakers - but that is only speculation and have no hard evidence. One of the Caves was the one who wouldn't let us in but was happy to sell us the wine through the fence.
Putting those two sentiments together along with the article leads me to believe they were referring to our group. This is frustrating as neither the article nor any of the "naysayers" of this group of English speakers offers concrete examples of the "boorish" behavior. The article, and the original article in French it comes from, also doesn't attempt to contact any "anglophones" or those present for a comment from them. It is all generalities and ambiguous phrases which, again, demonstrate the xenophobic nature of these wine operators.
Beofotch
To answer your questions:
Firstly) The article quotes a large group of Anglophones. Being as part of a group of 40 or so mostly native English speakers, as I noted in the post, I didn't see any other large groups of Anglophones. Maybe if there was a second group that I did not see they were the ones who were demonstrating "drunk with boorish" behavior (I'm imaging "drunk and boorish" behavior as: urinating in public; yelling, screaming, and cursing; damaging or defacing property; intimidating others...)
Secondly) We felt some degree of hostility and resentment from two of the Caves in particular because we were a big group (and maybe because we were NOT native French speakers - but that is only speculation and have no hard evidence. One of the Caves was the one who wouldn't let us in but was happy to sell us the wine through the fence.
Putting those two sentiments together along with the article leads me to believe they were referring to our group. This is frustrating as neither the article nor any of the "naysayers" of this group of English speakers offers concrete examples of the "boorish" behavior. The article, and the original article in French it comes from, also doesn't attempt to contact any "anglophones" or those present for a comment from them. It is all generalities and ambiguous phrases which, again, demonstrate the xenophobic nature of these wine operators.
Beofotch
The text you are quoting:
Hi tinkie,
To answer your questions:
Firstly) The article quotes a large group of Anglophones. Being as part of a group of 40 or so mostly native English speakers, as I noted in the post, I didn't see any other large groups of Anglophones. Maybe if there was a second group that I did not see they were the ones who were demonstrating "drunk with boorish" behavior (I'm imaging "drunk and boorish" behavior as: urinating in public; yelling, screaming, and cursing; damaging or defacing property; intimidating others...)
Secondly) We felt some degree of hostility and resentment from two of the Caves in particular because we were a big group (and maybe because we were NOT native French speakers - but that is only speculation and have no hard evidence. One of the Caves was the one who wouldn't let us in but was happy to sell us the wine through the fence.
Putting those two sentiments together along with the article leads me to believe they were referring to our group. This is frustrating as neither the article nor any of the "naysayers" of this group of English speakers offers concrete examples of the "boorish" behavior. The article, and the original article in French it comes from, also doesn't attempt to contact any "anglophones" or those present for a comment from them. It is all generalities and ambiguous phrases which, again, demonstrate the xenophobic nature of these wine operators.
Beofotch
beofotch, Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:47
To answer your questions:
Firstly) The article quotes a large group of Anglophones. Being as part of a group of 40 or so mostly native English speakers, as I noted in the post, I didn't see any other large groups of Anglophones. Maybe if there was a second group that I did not see they were the ones who were demonstrating "drunk with boorish" behavior (I'm imaging "drunk and boorish" behavior as: urinating in public; yelling, screaming, and cursing; damaging or defacing property; intimidating others...)
Secondly) We felt some degree of hostility and resentment from two of the Caves in particular because we were a big group (and maybe because we were NOT native French speakers - but that is only speculation and have no hard evidence. One of the Caves was the one who wouldn't let us in but was happy to sell us the wine through the fence.
Putting those two sentiments together along with the article leads me to believe they were referring to our group. This is frustrating as neither the article nor any of the "naysayers" of this group of English speakers offers concrete examples of the "boorish" behavior. The article, and the original article in French it comes from, also doesn't attempt to contact any "anglophones" or those present for a comment from them. It is all generalities and ambiguous phrases which, again, demonstrate the xenophobic nature of these wine operators.
Beofotch
beofotch, Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:47
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 9
Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:53
[quote][b]
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
The text you are quoting:
[quote][b]
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
hayes, Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:53
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
hayes, Jun 5, 2009 @ 11:53
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 10
Jun 5, 2009 @ 12:21
[quote][quote][b]
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
[/quote]
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
[/quote]
The text you are quoting:
[quote][quote][b]
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
[/quote]
nickpenn, Jun 5, 2009 @ 12:21
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
[/quote]
nickpenn, Jun 5, 2009 @ 12:21
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 11
Jun 5, 2009 @ 12:22
I was also part of the large group and no, I'm not feeling guilty, I just believe there are two sides to every story. First of all, we didn't set out to destroy any vineyards, it just happened to be that a large group of friends met at the train station, where we were met by other friends, friends of friends, so on, until we amassed about 40 people. As Beofotch mentioned there were many nationalities represented, many of whom are fluent in French (some even real Genevois, gasp!). Just because English happened to be the language of the group that day does not reflect on our willingness to learn French or get stuck in the culture. Obviously none of us there that day were wringing our hands hoping for friends, now were we?
Now I know that traveling in such a large group is difficult, but I think we managed pretty well. The first vineyard we went to was utterly crowded (even before we arrived) and so many of us tried a glass of wine and then bought bottles to share with the rest of our friends. Bought. As in paid for. Not free. You get my point. The second vineyard we went to was great. There was a huge grassy area were we set out our blankets and took in the amazing view. Once again, instead of all rushing to the bar several friends went and purchased bottles of wine and brought them back to our group to share and taste. When we were finished we packed up our stuff, cleared up our trash (yes we even picked up cigarette butts), and went on our merry way.
This continued on throughout the day. We went to vineyards where there was enough space to accommodate our group. If people asked us to keep off certain grassy areas, we respected that. If there were too many people at one small little vineyard, well we moved on. Not once was there any yobbish behavior, and I assume that you are using yobbish in the normal sense meaning violent, destructive, or aggressive behavior. In actual fact, I think that every single person in our group was extremely happy that day. I mean, who WASN'T in a great mood that day, it was gorgeous!
I would just like to clarify Beofotch's statement as well regarding the cave that "wouldn't let us in". Truth be told, it was past 6pm and they weren't letting ANYONE in. Those already in the vineyard gates were allowed to remain. So we spoke to the gentlemen at the gate (en francais of course) and they let a few of our friends go in so they could (once again) PURCHASE bottles of wine. It was brilliant. We found a great grassy area that would accommodate our group and enjoyed the sunset, great wine, and friendship. Truth be told, it doesn't get any better than this. So what if some people were tipsy and/or drunk by the end of the day, I am quite sure that there were many Francophones/Genevois who had more than their share that day. None of us drove home afterwards or acted aggressive. Personally, this is one "frat" that I am proud to be a part of.
Now I know that traveling in such a large group is difficult, but I think we managed pretty well. The first vineyard we went to was utterly crowded (even before we arrived) and so many of us tried a glass of wine and then bought bottles to share with the rest of our friends. Bought. As in paid for. Not free. You get my point. The second vineyard we went to was great. There was a huge grassy area were we set out our blankets and took in the amazing view. Once again, instead of all rushing to the bar several friends went and purchased bottles of wine and brought them back to our group to share and taste. When we were finished we packed up our stuff, cleared up our trash (yes we even picked up cigarette butts), and went on our merry way.
This continued on throughout the day. We went to vineyards where there was enough space to accommodate our group. If people asked us to keep off certain grassy areas, we respected that. If there were too many people at one small little vineyard, well we moved on. Not once was there any yobbish behavior, and I assume that you are using yobbish in the normal sense meaning violent, destructive, or aggressive behavior. In actual fact, I think that every single person in our group was extremely happy that day. I mean, who WASN'T in a great mood that day, it was gorgeous!
I would just like to clarify Beofotch's statement as well regarding the cave that "wouldn't let us in". Truth be told, it was past 6pm and they weren't letting ANYONE in. Those already in the vineyard gates were allowed to remain. So we spoke to the gentlemen at the gate (en francais of course) and they let a few of our friends go in so they could (once again) PURCHASE bottles of wine. It was brilliant. We found a great grassy area that would accommodate our group and enjoyed the sunset, great wine, and friendship. Truth be told, it doesn't get any better than this. So what if some people were tipsy and/or drunk by the end of the day, I am quite sure that there were many Francophones/Genevois who had more than their share that day. None of us drove home afterwards or acted aggressive. Personally, this is one "frat" that I am proud to be a part of.
The text you are quoting:
I was also part of the large group and no, I'm not feeling guilty, I just believe there are two sides to every story. First of all, we didn't set out to destroy any vineyards, it just happened to be that a large group of friends met at the train station, where we were met by other friends, friends of friends, so on, until we amassed about 40 people. As Beofotch mentioned there were many nationalities represented, many of whom are fluent in French (some even real Genevois, gasp!). Just because English happened to be the language of the group that day does not reflect on our willingness to learn French or get stuck in the culture. Obviously none of us there that day were wringing our hands hoping for friends, now were we?
Now I know that traveling in such a large group is difficult, but I think we managed pretty well. The first vineyard we went to was utterly crowded (even before we arrived) and so many of us tried a glass of wine and then bought bottles to share with the rest of our friends. Bought. As in paid for. Not free. You get my point. The second vineyard we went to was great. There was a huge grassy area were we set out our blankets and took in the amazing view. Once again, instead of all rushing to the bar several friends went and purchased bottles of wine and brought them back to our group to share and taste. When we were finished we packed up our stuff, cleared up our trash (yes we even picked up cigarette butts), and went on our merry way.
This continued on throughout the day. We went to vineyards where there was enough space to accommodate our group. If people asked us to keep off certain grassy areas, we respected that. If there were too many people at one small little vineyard, well we moved on. Not once was there any yobbish behavior, and I assume that you are using yobbish in the normal sense meaning violent, destructive, or aggressive behavior. In actual fact, I think that every single person in our group was extremely happy that day. I mean, who WASN'T in a great mood that day, it was gorgeous!
I would just like to clarify Beofotch's statement as well regarding the cave that "wouldn't let us in". Truth be told, it was past 6pm and they weren't letting ANYONE in. Those already in the vineyard gates were allowed to remain. So we spoke to the gentlemen at the gate (en francais of course) and they let a few of our friends go in so they could (once again) PURCHASE bottles of wine. It was brilliant. We found a great grassy area that would accommodate our group and enjoyed the sunset, great wine, and friendship. Truth be told, it doesn't get any better than this. So what if some people were tipsy and/or drunk by the end of the day, I am quite sure that there were many Francophones/Genevois who had more than their share that day. None of us drove home afterwards or acted aggressive. Personally, this is one "frat" that I am proud to be a part of.
terri2028, Jun 5, 2009 @ 12:22
Now I know that traveling in such a large group is difficult, but I think we managed pretty well. The first vineyard we went to was utterly crowded (even before we arrived) and so many of us tried a glass of wine and then bought bottles to share with the rest of our friends. Bought. As in paid for. Not free. You get my point. The second vineyard we went to was great. There was a huge grassy area were we set out our blankets and took in the amazing view. Once again, instead of all rushing to the bar several friends went and purchased bottles of wine and brought them back to our group to share and taste. When we were finished we packed up our stuff, cleared up our trash (yes we even picked up cigarette butts), and went on our merry way.
This continued on throughout the day. We went to vineyards where there was enough space to accommodate our group. If people asked us to keep off certain grassy areas, we respected that. If there were too many people at one small little vineyard, well we moved on. Not once was there any yobbish behavior, and I assume that you are using yobbish in the normal sense meaning violent, destructive, or aggressive behavior. In actual fact, I think that every single person in our group was extremely happy that day. I mean, who WASN'T in a great mood that day, it was gorgeous!
I would just like to clarify Beofotch's statement as well regarding the cave that "wouldn't let us in". Truth be told, it was past 6pm and they weren't letting ANYONE in. Those already in the vineyard gates were allowed to remain. So we spoke to the gentlemen at the gate (en francais of course) and they let a few of our friends go in so they could (once again) PURCHASE bottles of wine. It was brilliant. We found a great grassy area that would accommodate our group and enjoyed the sunset, great wine, and friendship. Truth be told, it doesn't get any better than this. So what if some people were tipsy and/or drunk by the end of the day, I am quite sure that there were many Francophones/Genevois who had more than their share that day. None of us drove home afterwards or acted aggressive. Personally, this is one "frat" that I am proud to be a part of.
terri2028, Jun 5, 2009 @ 12:22
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 12
Jun 5, 2009 @ 12:22
[quote][quote][b]
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
[/quote]
and your point is what exactly? home is lausanne
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
[/quote]
and your point is what exactly? home is lausanne
The text you are quoting:
[quote][quote][b]
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
[/quote]
and your point is what exactly? home is lausanne
nickpenn, Jun 5, 2009 @ 12:22
nickpenn (05/06/2009)[/b]
I agree with brwnbrt, I moved to Switzerland to get away from that sort of stuff and sadly it seems to be following us...maybe time to move further away from GVA![/quote]
Country of Origin United Kingdom
Interesting Travel Stories
..no place like home!
[/quote]
and your point is what exactly? home is lausanne
nickpenn, Jun 5, 2009 @ 12:22
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 13
Jun 5, 2009 @ 15:39
I was also with a group of friends, not SO large, but english speaking. We went out wanting to taste some wine, hike around the wineyards and have a nice day. Sure we did get drunk at some point but that happens at cave ouvertes. I don't think that that's what the winemakers are complaining about, as someone (sorry I am really bad with nicknames and typing from work) asked for examples this is what I saw.
During the day I saw serveral winemakers complaining directly to the 'visitors' about their behaviour, so I am assuming this is the type of behaviour they are referring to.
Some people, obvsiouly drunk and loud (thou that's hardly the point) were going to the 'tasting booth' with several glasses (for their friends, again, no big deal), asked for some wines, and when the owner filled their glasses with the usual tasting amount (1dl roughly) they loudly complained that they wanted more. At this stage only the people serving started complaining that this was a wine tasting event and not a 'Fill your glass with as much wine as you can for free event'.
When the girls were told that, they started loudly complaining, saying that it was lame, that the guy should not be such a stuck up swiss and just give them the wine. They also devoured all the bread and cheese and chips for tasting (and not one bite at the time but handfulls of it).
Now, in my humble opinion this are not acceptable or at least not respectfull behaviours. The event is called wine 'tasting'. And generally tasting means trying loads of different wines in 'tasting' portions. Same goes for the food. Asking for a full glass of wine several times is just unpolite and against the spirit of the event, and the fact that she had bought a bottle (as she claimed) didn't justify this girl behaviour in my opnion.
My friends and I managed to get fairly (read really) drunk, as we did in the past few years, but we also managed to stick to the rules. We tasted several wines. Actually we tasted all the wines on the list in certain caves. We were even told by the people serving that we should start with the first one in the list and work our way down to better savour the wine. They filled our glasses non stop. And in the end, little by little, we managed to drink for sure more then the glasses the other girls asked for.
I know that the examples I gave are hardly 'frat party' beahviour, and generally speaking not as outrageous as people passing out in the streets and being violent, but we are not talking about a pub crawling.
Let's just put things in the right context before starting to say that the winemakers are stuck up and should get a life. Sticking to the 'unspoken rules' of an event is a matter of politeness and respect, me thinks.
V
The text you are quoting:
I was also with a group of friends, not SO large, but english speaking. We went out wanting to taste some wine, hike around the wineyards and have a nice day. Sure we did get drunk at some point but that happens at cave ouvertes. I don't think that that's what the winemakers are complaining about, as someone (sorry I am really bad with nicknames and typing from work) asked for examples this is what I saw.
During the day I saw serveral winemakers complaining directly to the 'visitors' about their behaviour, so I am assuming this is the type of behaviour they are referring to.
Some people, obvsiouly drunk and loud (thou that's hardly the point) were going to the 'tasting booth' with several glasses (for their friends, again, no big deal), asked for some wines, and when the owner filled their glasses with the usual tasting amount (1dl roughly) they loudly complained that they wanted more. At this stage only the people serving started complaining that this was a wine tasting event and not a 'Fill your glass with as much wine as you can for free event'.
When the girls were told that, they started loudly complaining, saying that it was lame, that the guy should not be such a stuck up swiss and just give them the wine. They also devoured all the bread and cheese and chips for tasting (and not one bite at the time but handfulls of it).
Now, in my humble opinion this are not acceptable or at least not respectfull behaviours. The event is called wine 'tasting'. And generally tasting means trying loads of different wines in 'tasting' portions. Same goes for the food. Asking for a full glass of wine several times is just unpolite and against the spirit of the event, and the fact that she had bought a bottle (as she claimed) didn't justify this girl behaviour in my opnion.
My friends and I managed to get fairly (read really) drunk, as we did in the past few years, but we also managed to stick to the rules. We tasted several wines. Actually we tasted all the wines on the list in certain caves. We were even told by the people serving that we should start with the first one in the list and work our way down to better savour the wine. They filled our glasses non stop. And in the end, little by little, we managed to drink for sure more then the glasses the other girls asked for.
I know that the examples I gave are hardly 'frat party' beahviour, and generally speaking not as outrageous as people passing out in the streets and being violent, but we are not talking about a pub crawling.
Let's just put things in the right context before starting to say that the winemakers are stuck up and should get a life. Sticking to the 'unspoken rules' of an event is a matter of politeness and respect, me thinks.
V
Hoiling, Jun 5, 2009 @ 15:39
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 14
Jun 5, 2009 @ 16:57
@Hoiling, dear party friend, I raise my glass to you. You superbly summarized the whole matter and the deep reason of the "coup de gueule". Again few loudmouthed cretins drawing an unpleasant (and undeserved) light on a whole majority of wonderful people, sad!
The text you are quoting:
@Hoiling, dear party friend, I raise my glass to you. You superbly summarized the whole matter and the deep reason of the "coup de gueule". Again few loudmouthed cretins drawing an unpleasant (and undeserved) light on a whole majority of wonderful people, sad!
swisskiss, Jun 5, 2009 @ 16:57
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 15
Jun 5, 2009 @ 23:01
anglophones should be banned from drinking in public. they also should not be allowed to walk on the sidewalks, to congregate in groups greater than 3, or to breed with francophones. or even francotelegraphs for that matter. they would still be allowed to spend all their money locally but should once and for all agree to do so and not expect one iota of service. after these measures are in place, caves ouvertes will return to being the most wonderful event in all history of the world just like it used to be, and geneva will once again become the idyllic crime-free fairy tale land everyone seems to remember it being before anglophones came and drank it all to hell...
at least thats what they told me when i was down buying beer at the coop...
at least thats what they told me when i was down buying beer at the coop...
The text you are quoting:
anglophones should be banned from drinking in public. they also should not be allowed to walk on the sidewalks, to congregate in groups greater than 3, or to breed with francophones. or even francotelegraphs for that matter. they would still be allowed to spend all their money locally but should once and for all agree to do so and not expect one iota of service. after these measures are in place, caves ouvertes will return to being the most wonderful event in all history of the world just like it used to be, and geneva will once again become the idyllic crime-free fairy tale land everyone seems to remember it being before anglophones came and drank it all to hell...
at least thats what they told me when i was down buying beer at the coop...
floydmarks, Jun 5, 2009 @ 23:01
at least thats what they told me when i was down buying beer at the coop...
floydmarks, Jun 5, 2009 @ 23:01
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 16
Jun 6, 2009 @ 13:48
G...goddamn ango...anphoglones..., drunk sono.. sonof...bonof abich drunk just dd..drunk ..., just here to r..rrape our wines, steal our our th..throats *hips* , d..ddrive... no, dd...drink our wives, and cut our *burp* cut our bikes. Gotto escalu, emacu... late... ecamu.. oh crap! ju... just cut thei.. their *hips* balls! 
The text you are quoting:
G...goddamn ango...anphoglones..., drunk sono.. sonof...bonof abich drunk just dd..drunk ..., just here to r..rrape our wines, steal our our th..throats *hips* , d..ddrive... no, dd...drink our wives, and cut our *burp* cut our bikes. Gotto escalu, emacu... late... ecamu.. oh crap! ju... just cut thei.. their *hips* balls!
Casuistik, Jun 6, 2009 @ 13:48
Casuistik, Jun 6, 2009 @ 13:48
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Re: Anglophones criticized by Geneva winemakers
Post 17
Jun 9, 2009 @ 14:44
[quote]anglophones should be banned from drinking in public. they also should not be allowed to walk on the sidewalks, to congregate in groups greater than 3, or to breed with francophones. or even francotelegraphs for that matter. they would still be allowed to spend all their money locally but should once and for all agree to do so and not expect one iota of service. after these measures are in place, caves ouvertes will return to being the most wonderful event in all history of the world just like it used to be, and geneva will once again become the idyllic crime-free fairy tale land everyone seems to remember it being before anglophones came and drank it all to hell...
at least thats what they told me when i was down buying beer at the coop...[/quote]
Hilarious!
at least thats what they told me when i was down buying beer at the coop...[/quote]
Hilarious!
The text you are quoting:
[quote]anglophones should be banned from drinking in public. they also should not be allowed to walk on the sidewalks, to congregate in groups greater than 3, or to breed with francophones. or even francotelegraphs for that matter. they would still be allowed to spend all their money locally but should once and for all agree to do so and not expect one iota of service. after these measures are in place, caves ouvertes will return to being the most wonderful event in all history of the world just like it used to be, and geneva will once again become the idyllic crime-free fairy tale land everyone seems to remember it being before anglophones came and drank it all to hell...
at least thats what they told me when i was down buying beer at the coop...[/quote]
Hilarious!
beofotch, Jun 9, 2009 @ 14:44
at least thats what they told me when i was down buying beer at the coop...[/quote]
Hilarious!
beofotch, Jun 9, 2009 @ 14:44
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