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CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Mar 29, 2008 @ 10:19

Written by Iain Thomson

vnunet.com, 28 Mar 2008

  • Since the Earth is still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC are harmful  (Cern statement) 

A US District Court in Hawaii has been petitioned to stop the operation of the Cern Large Hadron Collider (LHC) over fears that it might cause the end of the world.

Walter Wagner, a former nuclear safety officer, has filed the suit as he fears that the LHC could create a mini black hole that could swallow the planet.

He also expressed concerns that transmuting matter into so-called strangelets could change all other matter into a similar form.

The claims have been dismissed by physicists at Cern. "Some physicists suggest that microscopic black holes could be produced in the collisions at the LHC," said the organisation in a statement.

"However, these would only be created with the energies of the colliding particles, which is equivalent to the energies of mosquitoes."

Cern insisted that no microscopic black holes produced inside the LHC could generate a strong enough gravitational force to pull in surrounding matter.

"If the LHC can produce microscopic black holes, cosmic rays of much higher energies would already have produced many more," the statement added.

"Since the Earth is still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC are harmful."

This is not the first time that the safety of the LHC has been called into question. Russian scientists suggested last month that time travel may occur when the LHC fires up later this year.

It is unclear why Wagner's lawsuit has been filed in Hawaii, since the LHC is located under the Swiss/French border and has no links with the US.

The LHC forms a 27km circle and is the world's largest piece of laboratory equipment.

Once active it will fire a stream of protons into each other at near light speed. The resulting collisions will generate examples of material found in the first seconds of the universe.

The text you are quoting:

Written by Iain Thomson

vnunet.com, 28 Mar 2008

  • Since the Earth is still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC are harmful  (Cern statement) 

A US District Court in Hawaii has been petitioned to stop the operation of the Cern Large Hadron Collider (LHC) over fears that it might cause the end of the world.

Walter Wagner, a former nuclear safety officer, has filed the suit as he fears that the LHC could create a mini black hole that could swallow the planet.

He also expressed concerns that transmuting matter into so-called strangelets could change all other matter into a similar form.

The claims have been dismissed by physicists at Cern. "Some physicists suggest that microscopic black holes could be produced in the collisions at the LHC," said the organisation in a statement.

"However, these would only be created with the energies of the colliding particles, which is equivalent to the energies of mosquitoes."

Cern insisted that no microscopic black holes produced inside the LHC could generate a strong enough gravitational force to pull in surrounding matter.

"If the LHC can produce microscopic black holes, cosmic rays of much higher energies would already have produced many more," the statement added.

"Since the Earth is still here, there is no reason to believe that collisions inside the LHC are harmful."

This is not the first time that the safety of the LHC has been called into question. Russian scientists suggested last month that time travel may occur when the LHC fires up later this year.

It is unclear why Wagner's lawsuit has been filed in Hawaii, since the LHC is located under the Swiss/French border and has no links with the US.

The LHC forms a 27km circle and is the world's largest piece of laboratory equipment.

Once active it will fire a stream of protons into each other at near light speed. The resulting collisions will generate examples of material found in the first seconds of the universe.


TranslatorMar 29, 2008 @ 10:19
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 1
Mar 30, 2008 @ 00:24
A NY Times article with a few more details:



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/science/29collider.html?hp



Cheers.








The text you are quoting:
A NY Times article with a few more details:



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/science/29collider.html?hp



Cheers.









komandor, Mar 30, 2008 @ 00:24
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 2
Mar 30, 2008 @ 03:09
[quote]

Walter Wagner, a former nuclear safety officer, has filed the suit as he fears that the LHC could create a mini black hole that could swallow the planet.

[/quote]



Nuclear Safety Officer. That's Homer Simpson's job title, right?



This is nothing short of fantastic. It's just a pity he, nor anybody else, would be around to hear the 'I told you so'.



[ Aside for nerds: the progenitor systems for Gamma Ray Bursts are still far from certain. Perhaps these guys could have hit upon a new candidate: civilisations booming themselves with particle accelerators. ]
The text you are quoting:
[quote]

Walter Wagner, a former nuclear safety officer, has filed the suit as he fears that the LHC could create a mini black hole that could swallow the planet.

[/quote]



Nuclear Safety Officer. That's Homer Simpson's job title, right?



This is nothing short of fantastic. It's just a pity he, nor anybody else, would be around to hear the 'I told you so'.



[ Aside for nerds: the progenitor systems for Gamma Ray Bursts are still far from certain. Perhaps these guys could have hit upon a new candidate: civilisations booming themselves with particle accelerators. ]
hayes, Mar 30, 2008 @ 03:09
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 3
Apr 1, 2008 @ 19:47
[quote][quote][quote]

Walter Wagner, a former nuclear safety officer, has filed the suit as he fears that the LHC could create a mini black hole that could swallow the planet.

[/quote]



As an inhabitant of this region, I am seriously concerned. Not only can the LHC create a black hole that swallows up my precious stamp collection - built up over many years through painstaking research - but now Hawaiians are suing European organisations as well.



As one of the first to be sucked into the black hole, way before those sun-tanned Hawaiians will add their opinions to string theory, I feel they are jumping the queue here: I suggest we start the glocals lawsuit at the Lima court against Walter Wagner, and argue that our proximity to CERN entitles us to a lawsuit before them.



Finally, I would ask CERN to provide guidelines on how to stay polite when 6 billion people are compressed together in a singularity - just in case.[/quote]



:))))) TOP CLASS! By the way, how will they say "I told you so" if we are reduced to an atom size? I would like CERN to clarify this as well.
The text you are quoting:
[quote][quote][quote]

Walter Wagner, a former nuclear safety officer, has filed the suit as he fears that the LHC could create a mini black hole that could swallow the planet.

[/quote]



As an inhabitant of this region, I am seriously concerned. Not only can the LHC create a black hole that swallows up my precious stamp collection - built up over many years through painstaking research - but now Hawaiians are suing European organisations as well.



As one of the first to be sucked into the black hole, way before those sun-tanned Hawaiians will add their opinions to string theory, I feel they are jumping the queue here: I suggest we start the glocals lawsuit at the Lima court against Walter Wagner, and argue that our proximity to CERN entitles us to a lawsuit before them.



Finally, I would ask CERN to provide guidelines on how to stay polite when 6 billion people are compressed together in a singularity - just in case.[/quote]



:))))) TOP CLASS! By the way, how will they say "I told you so" if we are reduced to an atom size? I would like CERN to clarify this as well.
Rasputin, Apr 1, 2008 @ 19:47
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 4
Apr 1, 2008 @ 19:59
[quote]

By the way, how will they say "I told you so" if we are reduced to an atom size? I would like CERN to clarify this as well.[/quote]



Early simulations predict something like 'M mmm mm mmm'. More supercomputer time will be required to perform a more detailed study.
The text you are quoting:
[quote]

By the way, how will they say "I told you so" if we are reduced to an atom size? I would like CERN to clarify this as well.[/quote]



Early simulations predict something like 'M mmm mm mmm'. More supercomputer time will be required to perform a more detailed study.
hayes, Apr 1, 2008 @ 19:59
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 5
Apr 1, 2008 @ 20:14
How do we know we are not the result of a previous experiment and live inside a collapsed universe.. I know that the Universe is shrinking already , traffic seems worse than years ago must be the roads getting smaller.
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How do we know we are not the result of a previous experiment and live inside a collapsed universe.. I know that the Universe is shrinking already , traffic seems worse than years ago must be the roads getting smaller.
britabroad, Apr 1, 2008 @ 20:14
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 6
Apr 1, 2008 @ 20:19




My universe is collapsed already, I had some UBS shares. So I can sew CERN for that?
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My universe is collapsed already, I had some UBS shares. So I can sew CERN for that?
Rasputin, Apr 1, 2008 @ 20:19
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 7
Apr 1, 2008 @ 20:30




This is actually one of the famous inversion paradoxes associated with relativistic physics. It's all about the reference frame of the observer. From the perspective of the roads, you are expanding. It's the same from the perspective of Cadbury's Cream Eggs. There are no privileged, unbiased observers.
The text you are quoting:




This is actually one of the famous inversion paradoxes associated with relativistic physics. It's all about the reference frame of the observer. From the perspective of the roads, you are expanding. It's the same from the perspective of Cadbury's Cream Eggs. There are no privileged, unbiased observers.
hayes, Apr 1, 2008 @ 20:30
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 8
Apr 1, 2008 @ 20:35
[quote]



This is actually one of the famous inversion paradoxes associated with relativistic physics. It's all about the reference frame of the observer. From the perspective of the roads, you are expanding. It's the same from the perspective of Cadbury's Cream Eggs. There are no privileged, unbiased observers.[/quote]



This posting has collapsed my brain as well. So now the UBS shares should be expanding?
The text you are quoting:
[quote]



This is actually one of the famous inversion paradoxes associated with relativistic physics. It's all about the reference frame of the observer. From the perspective of the roads, you are expanding. It's the same from the perspective of Cadbury's Cream Eggs. There are no privileged, unbiased observers.[/quote]



This posting has collapsed my brain as well. So now the UBS shares should be expanding?
Rasputin, Apr 1, 2008 @ 20:35
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 9
Apr 1, 2008 @ 21:28
And ... some information about Mr. Wagner ... (the "Homer")

"Wagner is, in fact, an expert in many fields. In his first degree at Berkeley he majored in biology and minored in physics. He then attended law school for three years, and later worked in nuclear medicine and health physics before becoming a grade-school teacher.

"He also founded the World Botanical Gardens in Umauma, Hawaii, and is now embroiled in a bitter legal battle with the Gardens board. According (http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2008/03/14/local_news/local08.txt) to the Hawaii Tribune-Herald (free registration required), he and his wife were indicted last month by a grand jury on counts of identity theft and attempted theft relating to an alleged attempt to obtain $340,000 from the gardens company.

"Wagner contends that the couple were owed the cash, having worked for free at the gardens for years. Having been let go, they then sued the company for back pay.

"But the company says the pair failed to notify the directors of the action, with Wagner instead serving the papers on his wife as company treasurer - even though she no longer was. The board says that Wagner then appeared in court as a company officer. He was thus able to gain a default judgement in his own lawsuit's favour, all without the knowledge of the Gardens board. It is also alleged that phony promissory notes were drawn up in an attempt to obtain cash from the company.

"Wagner told the Tribune-Herald: "The records show we were in fact owed this money. That case is still in civil court. I also have four sworn affidavits that the promissory notes were not phony." "   [from www.theregister.co.uk]

Mr. Wagner heads the Large Hadron Collider  (LHC) Legal Defense Fund which, in contrast to its name, seeks to shut down the behemoth....He estimates the cost of the lawsuit will be 100,000 US dollars.

The text you are quoting:
And ... some information about Mr. Wagner ... (the "Homer")

"Wagner is, in fact, an expert in many fields. In his first degree at Berkeley he majored in biology and minored in physics. He then attended law school for three years, and later worked in nuclear medicine and health physics before becoming a grade-school teacher.

"He also founded the World Botanical Gardens in Umauma, Hawaii, and is now embroiled in a bitter legal battle with the Gardens board. According (http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2008/03/14/local_news/local08.txt) to the Hawaii Tribune-Herald (free registration required), he and his wife were indicted last month by a grand jury on counts of identity theft and attempted theft relating to an alleged attempt to obtain $340,000 from the gardens company.

"Wagner contends that the couple were owed the cash, having worked for free at the gardens for years. Having been let go, they then sued the company for back pay.

"But the company says the pair failed to notify the directors of the action, with Wagner instead serving the papers on his wife as company treasurer - even though she no longer was. The board says that Wagner then appeared in court as a company officer. He was thus able to gain a default judgement in his own lawsuit's favour, all without the knowledge of the Gardens board. It is also alleged that phony promissory notes were drawn up in an attempt to obtain cash from the company.

"Wagner told the Tribune-Herald: "The records show we were in fact owed this money. That case is still in civil court. I also have four sworn affidavits that the promissory notes were not phony." "   [from www.theregister.co.uk]

Mr. Wagner heads the Large Hadron Collider  (LHC) Legal Defense Fund which, in contrast to its name, seeks to shut down the behemoth....He estimates the cost of the lawsuit will be 100,000 US dollars.
Translator, Apr 1, 2008 @ 21:28

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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 10
Apr 4, 2008 @ 13:11
THAT'S COOL, I DONT MIND GETTING SWALLOWED IN ANY GRAVITATIONAL NOTHINGNESS, AS LONG AS UNIVERSE KEEPS EXPANDING ANYWAY... MORE ROOM FOR MORE OF US & THINGS. i like this stuff... quantum physics... but theoretically one never should stop doubts about things... what has been done @ CERN is revolutionary, advances us all in our human drive for knowledge - so at least smthng to go & get swallowed for & not regret! :-)

:w00t::D
The text you are quoting:
THAT'S COOL, I DONT MIND GETTING SWALLOWED IN ANY GRAVITATIONAL NOTHINGNESS, AS LONG AS UNIVERSE KEEPS EXPANDING ANYWAY... MORE ROOM FOR MORE OF US & THINGS. i like this stuff... quantum physics... but theoretically one never should stop doubts about things... what has been done @ CERN is revolutionary, advances us all in our human drive for knowledge - so at least smthng to go & get swallowed for & not regret! :-)

:w00t::D
Good_One, Apr 4, 2008 @ 13:11
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 11
Apr 4, 2008 @ 13:19




Oh really? How can you be so sure?
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Oh really? How can you be so sure?
hayes, Apr 4, 2008 @ 13:19
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 12
Apr 4, 2008 @ 13:23
Did anyone tell this Wagner expert guy that the World Wide Web was created at CERN?? Wasn't it created so the US could have some secret communication device for military/govenmental use or something?... Maybe they should have thought twice about it back then. Too late now. Heh heh. The only "black hole" I see everyone going into (and profitting from and having fun because of) majorly, is just that: the WWWeb! :o)

I find some of the comments you guys made on this forum so funny!! LOL! Thanks for the laugh! :) This guy is ridiculous. I mean, really!

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Did anyone tell this Wagner expert guy that the World Wide Web was created at CERN?? Wasn't it created so the US could have some secret communication device for military/govenmental use or something?... Maybe they should have thought twice about it back then. Too late now. Heh heh. The only "black hole" I see everyone going into (and profitting from and having fun because of) majorly, is just that: the WWWeb! :o)

I find some of the comments you guys made on this forum so funny!! LOL! Thanks for the laugh! :) This guy is ridiculous. I mean, really!
Roberta, Apr 4, 2008 @ 13:23

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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 13
Apr 4, 2008 @ 13:25
Dammit - it didn't post the quote!



[quote]

one never should stop doubts about things...[/quote]



And in case it didn't come out that time either (Safari 3.1 on OS X 10.5.2 -- AND I'm only using Safari for Glocals to supposedly get around the Firefox bugs...)



Good one said: one never should stop doubts about things...



And I said: how can you be so sure?



Now I look like a complete idiot. Nice one, Good_One. I blame you for this ;) What a mess :(


The text you are quoting:
Dammit - it didn't post the quote!



[quote]

one never should stop doubts about things...[/quote]



And in case it didn't come out that time either (Safari 3.1 on OS X 10.5.2 -- AND I'm only using Safari for Glocals to supposedly get around the Firefox bugs...)



Good one said: one never should stop doubts about things...



And I said: how can you be so sure?



Now I look like a complete idiot. Nice one, Good_One. I blame you for this ;) What a mess :(



hayes, Apr 4, 2008 @ 13:25
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 14
Apr 4, 2008 @ 21:41
this thread is just so hilarious, thanks for making me laugh guys! :D
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this thread is just so hilarious, thanks for making me laugh guys! :D
Minda, Apr 4, 2008 @ 21:41
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 15
Apr 4, 2008 @ 22:57
Time travel could be possible!!!!! Really!!!!! Cool!!!! lets go hunt some dinosaurs and see what colours they really are, for all we know they could have been yellow with blue polkadots, or blue!!!!
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Time travel could be possible!!!!! Really!!!!! Cool!!!! lets go hunt some dinosaurs and see what colours they really are, for all we know they could have been yellow with blue polkadots, or blue!!!!
DJ_Symcard, Apr 4, 2008 @ 22:57
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 16
Apr 5, 2008 @ 01:45
Oooh that is so cruel, of course Blue dinosaurs could have existed, ok, maybe they had a very short existence, as natural selection and survival of the fittest (the green ones) defavourised them, leading them to be taunted and bullied, or even eaten because of their different appearance, or maybe leading them to suicide cos they couldn't face the shame of being different, but they could have existed.
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Oooh that is so cruel, of course Blue dinosaurs could have existed, ok, maybe they had a very short existence, as natural selection and survival of the fittest (the green ones) defavourised them, leading them to be taunted and bullied, or even eaten because of their different appearance, or maybe leading them to suicide cos they couldn't face the shame of being different, but they could have existed.
DJ_Symcard, Apr 5, 2008 @ 01:45
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 17
Apr 5, 2008 @ 19:01
Imust admit, geeky scientists have a fabulos sense of humour...thanks for the funny thread..I thought a black hole was what I found in my friend's sock :P
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Imust admit, geeky scientists have a fabulos sense of humour...thanks for the funny thread..I thought a black hole was what I found in my friend's sock :P
divagirl, Apr 5, 2008 @ 19:01
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Re: CERN Slapped with Doomsday Lawsuit by Former Nuclear Safety Officer
Post 18
Apr 7, 2008 @ 20:56

:w00t:.... Brilliant initiation to the philosophy of holes! :cool:...How CAN one find a hole, actually? I mean it's a hole, right? :rolleyes: With nothing in it, like a hole in a sock, I mean it's void of anything, it's nothingness, right? :doze: ...So how come we humans like to say we have "found a hole"? :satisfied: Can't we say... we have found nothing? Ok, then if we did, it would sound too bold and arrogant to say we are afraid of "nothing", right?

And what about when we say we "blast a whole in something" (like a mountain, to make a tunnel, for example), saying the "in something" bit is contradictory because actually we have created nothingness in that something (the tunnel)...:w00t: and having said THAT now, it's not surprising therefore that CERN (or anyone else for that matter therefore) can/have managed to create a black hole! :Wow: like the one in the sock, right??! :D

... and what about "sending something into oblivion"? I mean that's also sending something "into nothingness" essentially, right?

... ok ok I'll stop there ;)

But if I got my hands on that guy, conclusively said, I would stuff his head into the nothingness of the hole in a sock for sure!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

The text you are quoting:

:w00t:.... Brilliant initiation to the philosophy of holes! :cool:...How CAN one find a hole, actually? I mean it's a hole, right? :rolleyes: With nothing in it, like a hole in a sock, I mean it's void of anything, it's nothingness, right? :doze: ...So how come we humans like to say we have "found a hole"? :satisfied: Can't we say... we have found nothing? Ok, then if we did, it would sound too bold and arrogant to say we are afraid of "nothing", right?

And what about when we say we "blast a whole in something" (like a mountain, to make a tunnel, for example), saying the "in something" bit is contradictory because actually we have created nothingness in that something (the tunnel)...:w00t: and having said THAT now, it's not surprising therefore that CERN (or anyone else for that matter therefore) can/have managed to create a black hole! :Wow: like the one in the sock, right??! :D

... and what about "sending something into oblivion"? I mean that's also sending something "into nothingness" essentially, right?

... ok ok I'll stop there ;)

But if I got my hands on that guy, conclusively said, I would stuff his head into the nothingness of the hole in a sock for sure!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Roberta, Apr 7, 2008 @ 20:56

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