A recent BBC story said a survey rated Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats (formally #8).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8137912.stm
I am a freelance video journalist (and Glocals member + expat for 3 months!) and I was hoping to do a story on this. But first, do you agree with this statement? Do you find Geneva expensive compared to your former city/country?
Can you maintain the same quality of life?
What do you think? I am hoping to interview people on the subject so if anyone would like to volunteer please message me or e-mail me at [email protected]
Thanks!
Global Forums > General > DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
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DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Jul 9, 2009 @ 13:25
The text you are quoting:
A recent BBC story said a survey rated Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats (formally #8).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8137912.stm
I am a freelance video journalist (and Glocals member + expat for 3 months!) and I was hoping to do a story on this. But first, do you agree with this statement? Do you find Geneva expensive compared to your former city/country?
Can you maintain the same quality of life?
What do you think? I am hoping to interview people on the subject so if anyone would like to volunteer please message me or e-mail me at [email protected]
Thanks!
JMfromTOJul 9, 2009 @ 13:25
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8137912.stm
I am a freelance video journalist (and Glocals member + expat for 3 months!) and I was hoping to do a story on this. But first, do you agree with this statement? Do you find Geneva expensive compared to your former city/country?
Can you maintain the same quality of life?
What do you think? I am hoping to interview people on the subject so if anyone would like to volunteer please message me or e-mail me at [email protected]
Thanks!
JMfromTOJul 9, 2009 @ 13:25
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 1
Jul 9, 2009 @ 16:13
Yo,
I do absolutely agree. Geneva is that much expensive, that it just became absurd. For people who lived in several cities of the world it seems even ridiculous.
The monthly rents for apartments increased in the last years tremendously, even though neither décor, setting of apts or rooms nor public transport improved as well (if they ever did...) Everyone complains about the prices, which are lowe then half of them in cities which offer culture, leisure and night-life (eg. Vienna, Berlin, Prag, Madrid, etc...). But whole Geneva stews in his grease of capitalism- and rich-chic attitude, a fact which is daily proved by the non-changing ticket machines for public transport, e.g.
The outstanding prices for Kebab, and even more in middle-class restaurants (who offer neither well tasting food nor big portions), the non-existence of cheap supermarkets or canteens, the total ignorance of making economic advertisement and attraction by selling eg. beer at reasonable prices, et cetera, all in comparison to the costs of living in cities who DO really offer vibrant life (and not just the illusion of well-paid jobs) leads me to the only conlclusion possible:
Geneva is overpaid and moreover it's absolutely not worth of it, therefore it should be considered as being one of the 3 priciest cities in the world (not 4th!) - because what you get for your money is usually just nothing. a big bluff, a bubble of fame and illusion.
I do absolutely agree. Geneva is that much expensive, that it just became absurd. For people who lived in several cities of the world it seems even ridiculous.
The monthly rents for apartments increased in the last years tremendously, even though neither décor, setting of apts or rooms nor public transport improved as well (if they ever did...) Everyone complains about the prices, which are lowe then half of them in cities which offer culture, leisure and night-life (eg. Vienna, Berlin, Prag, Madrid, etc...). But whole Geneva stews in his grease of capitalism- and rich-chic attitude, a fact which is daily proved by the non-changing ticket machines for public transport, e.g.
The outstanding prices for Kebab, and even more in middle-class restaurants (who offer neither well tasting food nor big portions), the non-existence of cheap supermarkets or canteens, the total ignorance of making economic advertisement and attraction by selling eg. beer at reasonable prices, et cetera, all in comparison to the costs of living in cities who DO really offer vibrant life (and not just the illusion of well-paid jobs) leads me to the only conlclusion possible:
Geneva is overpaid and moreover it's absolutely not worth of it, therefore it should be considered as being one of the 3 priciest cities in the world (not 4th!) - because what you get for your money is usually just nothing. a big bluff, a bubble of fame and illusion.
The text you are quoting:
Yo,
I do absolutely agree. Geneva is that much expensive, that it just became absurd. For people who lived in several cities of the world it seems even ridiculous.
The monthly rents for apartments increased in the last years tremendously, even though neither décor, setting of apts or rooms nor public transport improved as well (if they ever did...) Everyone complains about the prices, which are lowe then half of them in cities which offer culture, leisure and night-life (eg. Vienna, Berlin, Prag, Madrid, etc...). But whole Geneva stews in his grease of capitalism- and rich-chic attitude, a fact which is daily proved by the non-changing ticket machines for public transport, e.g.
The outstanding prices for Kebab, and even more in middle-class restaurants (who offer neither well tasting food nor big portions), the non-existence of cheap supermarkets or canteens, the total ignorance of making economic advertisement and attraction by selling eg. beer at reasonable prices, et cetera, all in comparison to the costs of living in cities who DO really offer vibrant life (and not just the illusion of well-paid jobs) leads me to the only conlclusion possible:
Geneva is overpaid and moreover it's absolutely not worth of it, therefore it should be considered as being one of the 3 priciest cities in the world (not 4th!) - because what you get for your money is usually just nothing. a big bluff, a bubble of fame and illusion.
Joensy, Jul 9, 2009 @ 16:13
I do absolutely agree. Geneva is that much expensive, that it just became absurd. For people who lived in several cities of the world it seems even ridiculous.
The monthly rents for apartments increased in the last years tremendously, even though neither décor, setting of apts or rooms nor public transport improved as well (if they ever did...) Everyone complains about the prices, which are lowe then half of them in cities which offer culture, leisure and night-life (eg. Vienna, Berlin, Prag, Madrid, etc...). But whole Geneva stews in his grease of capitalism- and rich-chic attitude, a fact which is daily proved by the non-changing ticket machines for public transport, e.g.
The outstanding prices for Kebab, and even more in middle-class restaurants (who offer neither well tasting food nor big portions), the non-existence of cheap supermarkets or canteens, the total ignorance of making economic advertisement and attraction by selling eg. beer at reasonable prices, et cetera, all in comparison to the costs of living in cities who DO really offer vibrant life (and not just the illusion of well-paid jobs) leads me to the only conlclusion possible:
Geneva is overpaid and moreover it's absolutely not worth of it, therefore it should be considered as being one of the 3 priciest cities in the world (not 4th!) - because what you get for your money is usually just nothing. a big bluff, a bubble of fame and illusion.
Joensy, Jul 9, 2009 @ 16:13
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 2
Jul 9, 2009 @ 22:35
compared to Rome, where I used to live and work before, Geneva is not so expensive. Of course prices are higher, but actually lower if compared to the average salary. And the city is a good mix: small but very interesting!
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compared to Rome, where I used to live and work before, Geneva is not so expensive. Of course prices are higher, but actually lower if compared to the average salary. And the city is a good mix: small but very interesting!
marcomarco, Jul 9, 2009 @ 22:35
marcomarco, Jul 9, 2009 @ 22:35
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 3
Jul 9, 2009 @ 23:00
I read the report, Mercer do it every year. It is aimed at companies sending staff to different locations and how costly it will be for them, ie. expat package.
It is not however I believe any reflection of if you are working here permenantly earning and living as a local person.
I think geneva given the salary people earn has general parity to any financial hub in the world. I can say I have a much better "standard" of living than when living in central london. London may be cheaper for basic essential such as food and a little on rent, transport costs are terrible and taxes high. You also dealing with conditions that are not as pleasant as here.
In actual fact i found Vancouver per salary the most expensive city i have lived.
As for students, if your international student self funded then yes its expensive to live here, but you may find that swiss local students have quite a nice lifestyle. havent met many students that arent out and about enjoying themselves in the same bars and clubs i go to.
It is not however I believe any reflection of if you are working here permenantly earning and living as a local person.
I think geneva given the salary people earn has general parity to any financial hub in the world. I can say I have a much better "standard" of living than when living in central london. London may be cheaper for basic essential such as food and a little on rent, transport costs are terrible and taxes high. You also dealing with conditions that are not as pleasant as here.
In actual fact i found Vancouver per salary the most expensive city i have lived.
As for students, if your international student self funded then yes its expensive to live here, but you may find that swiss local students have quite a nice lifestyle. havent met many students that arent out and about enjoying themselves in the same bars and clubs i go to.
The text you are quoting:
I read the report, Mercer do it every year. It is aimed at companies sending staff to different locations and how costly it will be for them, ie. expat package.
It is not however I believe any reflection of if you are working here permenantly earning and living as a local person.
I think geneva given the salary people earn has general parity to any financial hub in the world. I can say I have a much better "standard" of living than when living in central london. London may be cheaper for basic essential such as food and a little on rent, transport costs are terrible and taxes high. You also dealing with conditions that are not as pleasant as here.
In actual fact i found Vancouver per salary the most expensive city i have lived.
As for students, if your international student self funded then yes its expensive to live here, but you may find that swiss local students have quite a nice lifestyle. havent met many students that arent out and about enjoying themselves in the same bars and clubs i go to.
natd76, Jul 9, 2009 @ 23:00
It is not however I believe any reflection of if you are working here permenantly earning and living as a local person.
I think geneva given the salary people earn has general parity to any financial hub in the world. I can say I have a much better "standard" of living than when living in central london. London may be cheaper for basic essential such as food and a little on rent, transport costs are terrible and taxes high. You also dealing with conditions that are not as pleasant as here.
In actual fact i found Vancouver per salary the most expensive city i have lived.
As for students, if your international student self funded then yes its expensive to live here, but you may find that swiss local students have quite a nice lifestyle. havent met many students that arent out and about enjoying themselves in the same bars and clubs i go to.
natd76, Jul 9, 2009 @ 23:00
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 4
Jul 9, 2009 @ 23:43
So, a few weeks ago I returned from a trip to Tokyo (I believe that city is listed as the most expensive for expats) and I have to say, on a limited travel budget, I found Tokyo cheaper than Geneva. In Tokyo one can spend an enormous amount of money on a good meal but there are also cheaper alternatives that don’t include places like McDonalds. For example, for the equivalent of 5chf, Yoshinoya serves beef stir-fry on rice with a small salad and miso soup. Now, of course, I can’t compare insurance, taxes, housing prices of Tokyo with Geneva but I did confer with a couple of Japanese friends of mine and they mentioned they found Geneva more expensive.
My theory is that because Geneva lacks competition/variety, the prices are not competitive. There are only two major groceries and products that one sells the other does not, for example, one sells Coca Cola and the other Pepsi. Both chains have their own electronic/clothing/furniture stores as well as buying out Carrefour, Interdiscount, Denner and Fust. In this city, one has the choice of Dior, Coop or Migro.
With all my humming and hawing though, I’d have to say public transportation and car insurance in this country rocks!
My theory is that because Geneva lacks competition/variety, the prices are not competitive. There are only two major groceries and products that one sells the other does not, for example, one sells Coca Cola and the other Pepsi. Both chains have their own electronic/clothing/furniture stores as well as buying out Carrefour, Interdiscount, Denner and Fust. In this city, one has the choice of Dior, Coop or Migro.
With all my humming and hawing though, I’d have to say public transportation and car insurance in this country rocks!
The text you are quoting:
So, a few weeks ago I returned from a trip to Tokyo (I believe that city is listed as the most expensive for expats) and I have to say, on a limited travel budget, I found Tokyo cheaper than Geneva. In Tokyo one can spend an enormous amount of money on a good meal but there are also cheaper alternatives that don’t include places like McDonalds. For example, for the equivalent of 5chf, Yoshinoya serves beef stir-fry on rice with a small salad and miso soup. Now, of course, I can’t compare insurance, taxes, housing prices of Tokyo with Geneva but I did confer with a couple of Japanese friends of mine and they mentioned they found Geneva more expensive.
My theory is that because Geneva lacks competition/variety, the prices are not competitive. There are only two major groceries and products that one sells the other does not, for example, one sells Coca Cola and the other Pepsi. Both chains have their own electronic/clothing/furniture stores as well as buying out Carrefour, Interdiscount, Denner and Fust. In this city, one has the choice of Dior, Coop or Migro.
With all my humming and hawing though, I’d have to say public transportation and car insurance in this country rocks!
no.38, Jul 9, 2009 @ 23:43
My theory is that because Geneva lacks competition/variety, the prices are not competitive. There are only two major groceries and products that one sells the other does not, for example, one sells Coca Cola and the other Pepsi. Both chains have their own electronic/clothing/furniture stores as well as buying out Carrefour, Interdiscount, Denner and Fust. In this city, one has the choice of Dior, Coop or Migro.
With all my humming and hawing though, I’d have to say public transportation and car insurance in this country rocks!
no.38, Jul 9, 2009 @ 23:43
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 5
Jul 10, 2009 @ 11:08
While I think Geneva is a city that can be expensive, I still believe it stays Value for Money.
It's true that rent prices in the center of Geneva are expensive, which is comparable to all major cities like Berlin, Paris or London. We do complain that restaurants are expensive, groceries are expensive too, but I am sure most people go do their groceries and shopping in France, 10-15 or 20 km is considered as suburbs in the other cities we are talking about.
Everyone wants to live in the middle of the city, eat in the middle of the city, shop in Rue de Rhone and Rue de Marche and then say it's expensive.
Public transportation is excellent, quality of air and water is outstanding. Average Salary is very high compared to any other city.
Cultural life is not great but if we look at it per capita, it's still very high. there is always a concert some where (needless t mention all the free activities in the city, especially in summer). Tax levels are very low.
Bread, eggs, housing, milk in geneva might be expensive but quality of living is high and alternatives to get these things cheaper around the corner are numerous too.
It's true that rent prices in the center of Geneva are expensive, which is comparable to all major cities like Berlin, Paris or London. We do complain that restaurants are expensive, groceries are expensive too, but I am sure most people go do their groceries and shopping in France, 10-15 or 20 km is considered as suburbs in the other cities we are talking about.
Everyone wants to live in the middle of the city, eat in the middle of the city, shop in Rue de Rhone and Rue de Marche and then say it's expensive.
Public transportation is excellent, quality of air and water is outstanding. Average Salary is very high compared to any other city.
Cultural life is not great but if we look at it per capita, it's still very high. there is always a concert some where (needless t mention all the free activities in the city, especially in summer). Tax levels are very low.
Bread, eggs, housing, milk in geneva might be expensive but quality of living is high and alternatives to get these things cheaper around the corner are numerous too.
The text you are quoting:
While I think Geneva is a city that can be expensive, I still believe it stays Value for Money.
It's true that rent prices in the center of Geneva are expensive, which is comparable to all major cities like Berlin, Paris or London. We do complain that restaurants are expensive, groceries are expensive too, but I am sure most people go do their groceries and shopping in France, 10-15 or 20 km is considered as suburbs in the other cities we are talking about.
Everyone wants to live in the middle of the city, eat in the middle of the city, shop in Rue de Rhone and Rue de Marche and then say it's expensive.
Public transportation is excellent, quality of air and water is outstanding. Average Salary is very high compared to any other city.
Cultural life is not great but if we look at it per capita, it's still very high. there is always a concert some where (needless t mention all the free activities in the city, especially in summer). Tax levels are very low.
Bread, eggs, housing, milk in geneva might be expensive but quality of living is high and alternatives to get these things cheaper around the corner are numerous too.
Moncef, Jul 10, 2009 @ 11:08
It's true that rent prices in the center of Geneva are expensive, which is comparable to all major cities like Berlin, Paris or London. We do complain that restaurants are expensive, groceries are expensive too, but I am sure most people go do their groceries and shopping in France, 10-15 or 20 km is considered as suburbs in the other cities we are talking about.
Everyone wants to live in the middle of the city, eat in the middle of the city, shop in Rue de Rhone and Rue de Marche and then say it's expensive.
Public transportation is excellent, quality of air and water is outstanding. Average Salary is very high compared to any other city.
Cultural life is not great but if we look at it per capita, it's still very high. there is always a concert some where (needless t mention all the free activities in the city, especially in summer). Tax levels are very low.
Bread, eggs, housing, milk in geneva might be expensive but quality of living is high and alternatives to get these things cheaper around the corner are numerous too.
Moncef, Jul 10, 2009 @ 11:08
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 6
Jul 10, 2009 @ 12:23
Um...I'd like to say that while I find it 'challenging' to live here, I don't hate Geneva. I was just responding to the initial question.
Lokum, are you suggesting the survey is inaccurate?
Lokum, are you suggesting the survey is inaccurate?
The text you are quoting:
Um...I'd like to say that while I find it 'challenging' to live here, I don't hate Geneva. I was just responding to the initial question.
Lokum, are you suggesting the survey is inaccurate?
no.38, Jul 10, 2009 @ 12:23
Lokum, are you suggesting the survey is inaccurate?
no.38, Jul 10, 2009 @ 12:23
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 7
Jul 10, 2009 @ 12:38
Not that I'm a moderator or anything, but the question is: Do you find Geneva expensive or not, compared to where you are from or other places you have lived in the rest of the world.
Just a note, I don't consider living in France or shopping in France "living" in Geneva. I imagine the survey (and my story) is about Geneva proper, not the suburbs. Much like New Jersey vs. New York, there is a big difference. Speaking from experience, my girlfriend can't live in France as her work permit states she HAS to live in the Canton of Geneva.
Unless you live in France or have a car, you can't easily grocery shop there. And frankly if you have a car, chances are you don't need to.
This is also not a "because it's expensive it sucks" debate. You can think it's expensive here and still like Geneva. Also, not everyone is making UBS investment banker salaries here. Not everyone got a huge bump in pay moving here.
Also, I am still very much interested in speaking with people for a story about this, so please PM me if you don't mind sharing your opinion!
Just a note, I don't consider living in France or shopping in France "living" in Geneva. I imagine the survey (and my story) is about Geneva proper, not the suburbs. Much like New Jersey vs. New York, there is a big difference. Speaking from experience, my girlfriend can't live in France as her work permit states she HAS to live in the Canton of Geneva.
Unless you live in France or have a car, you can't easily grocery shop there. And frankly if you have a car, chances are you don't need to.
This is also not a "because it's expensive it sucks" debate. You can think it's expensive here and still like Geneva. Also, not everyone is making UBS investment banker salaries here. Not everyone got a huge bump in pay moving here.
Also, I am still very much interested in speaking with people for a story about this, so please PM me if you don't mind sharing your opinion!
The text you are quoting:
Not that I'm a moderator or anything, but the question is: Do you find Geneva expensive or not, compared to where you are from or other places you have lived in the rest of the world.
Just a note, I don't consider living in France or shopping in France "living" in Geneva. I imagine the survey (and my story) is about Geneva proper, not the suburbs. Much like New Jersey vs. New York, there is a big difference. Speaking from experience, my girlfriend can't live in France as her work permit states she HAS to live in the Canton of Geneva.
Unless you live in France or have a car, you can't easily grocery shop there. And frankly if you have a car, chances are you don't need to.
This is also not a "because it's expensive it sucks" debate. You can think it's expensive here and still like Geneva. Also, not everyone is making UBS investment banker salaries here. Not everyone got a huge bump in pay moving here.
Also, I am still very much interested in speaking with people for a story about this, so please PM me if you don't mind sharing your opinion!
JMfromTO, Jul 10, 2009 @ 12:38
Just a note, I don't consider living in France or shopping in France "living" in Geneva. I imagine the survey (and my story) is about Geneva proper, not the suburbs. Much like New Jersey vs. New York, there is a big difference. Speaking from experience, my girlfriend can't live in France as her work permit states she HAS to live in the Canton of Geneva.
Unless you live in France or have a car, you can't easily grocery shop there. And frankly if you have a car, chances are you don't need to.
This is also not a "because it's expensive it sucks" debate. You can think it's expensive here and still like Geneva. Also, not everyone is making UBS investment banker salaries here. Not everyone got a huge bump in pay moving here.
Also, I am still very much interested in speaking with people for a story about this, so please PM me if you don't mind sharing your opinion!
JMfromTO, Jul 10, 2009 @ 12:38
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 8
Jul 10, 2009 @ 13:01
I've moved from Dublin this year and its considerably cheaper than there. Versus London, I'd say its about even.
The key point about GE is that there just isn't a lot of competition, as outlined above. Whether it be for accomodation, food & goods or services such as nannies/ cleaners/ mechanics etc
The text you are quoting:
I've moved from Dublin this year and its considerably cheaper than there. Versus London, I'd say its about even.
The key point about GE is that there just isn't a lot of competition, as outlined above. Whether it be for accomodation, food & goods or services such as nannies/ cleaners/ mechanics etc
Feehary, Jul 10, 2009 @ 13:01
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 9
Jul 10, 2009 @ 16:17
..that is a VERY good point raised here... at any rate you won't find any calvinistic or non-calvinistic genevan to disclose their revenues and very few to actually show-off wealth.
Anyhow the entire topic boils down to only one point: where else in the world is a simple sales clerk or waitress paid 4'500CHF/3'600USD/3'000EUR/2'600GBP?
When a sales point/restaurant pays these kind of salaries and plans to make some profit, prices are at par... so simple as that
The text you are quoting:
..that is a VERY good point raised here... at any rate you won't find any calvinistic or non-calvinistic genevan to disclose their revenues and very few to actually show-off wealth.
Anyhow the entire topic boils down to only one point: where else in the world is a simple sales clerk or waitress paid 4'500CHF/3'600USD/3'000EUR/2'600GBP?
When a sales point/restaurant pays these kind of salaries and plans to make some profit, prices are at par... so simple as that
swisskiss, Jul 10, 2009 @ 16:17
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 10
Jul 10, 2009 @ 17:36
Most off all Geneva is indeed for show off people indeed.
But still there are a lot of rich people too. And when others say that CHF 3.500.- it's better than some other countries, to live here is nothing, because you can't forget that you've to pay assurances, rent flat that makes more than 1/3 of your salary, and food, at the end of the month, if you wanna go out you can't, 'cause you don't earn enough!!!
For those who are paid like CHF 6.000.- fine for them, they have let's say, normal wages.
Don't you agree!?
so i agree Geneva it's expensive, but if you speak about buying multimédia gadgets, computers, cd's, movies stuff's like that, it's less expensive.
But still there are a lot of rich people too. And when others say that CHF 3.500.- it's better than some other countries, to live here is nothing, because you can't forget that you've to pay assurances, rent flat that makes more than 1/3 of your salary, and food, at the end of the month, if you wanna go out you can't, 'cause you don't earn enough!!!
For those who are paid like CHF 6.000.- fine for them, they have let's say, normal wages.
Don't you agree!?
so i agree Geneva it's expensive, but if you speak about buying multimédia gadgets, computers, cd's, movies stuff's like that, it's less expensive.
The text you are quoting:
Most off all Geneva is indeed for show off people indeed.
But still there are a lot of rich people too. And when others say that CHF 3.500.- it's better than some other countries, to live here is nothing, because you can't forget that you've to pay assurances, rent flat that makes more than 1/3 of your salary, and food, at the end of the month, if you wanna go out you can't, 'cause you don't earn enough!!!
For those who are paid like CHF 6.000.- fine for them, they have let's say, normal wages.
Don't you agree!?
so i agree Geneva it's expensive, but if you speak about buying multimédia gadgets, computers, cd's, movies stuff's like that, it's less expensive.
Bpoeta Net, Jul 10, 2009 @ 17:36
But still there are a lot of rich people too. And when others say that CHF 3.500.- it's better than some other countries, to live here is nothing, because you can't forget that you've to pay assurances, rent flat that makes more than 1/3 of your salary, and food, at the end of the month, if you wanna go out you can't, 'cause you don't earn enough!!!
For those who are paid like CHF 6.000.- fine for them, they have let's say, normal wages.
Don't you agree!?
so i agree Geneva it's expensive, but if you speak about buying multimédia gadgets, computers, cd's, movies stuff's like that, it's less expensive.
Bpoeta Net, Jul 10, 2009 @ 17:36
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 11
Jul 10, 2009 @ 18:04
Indeed, Geneva is not only expensive but a lot about "showing off" too. Bah, go to the countryside. ;)
I am swiss and have lived in the area nearly forever, right between Geneva and Lausanne. I lived first around Nyon which is now considered as being the suburbs of Geneva and has become increasingly expensive too. Now I am closer from Lausanne (15 minutes by train) a "countryside city" as some people from Geneva would say, but that I find much more friendly. ;)
Is Geneva worth it's price? I really do not know. I really think that it depends on what you are looking for. If your life is all about partying all night and shopping in great boutiques, you should in my opinion rather go to Zurich or stay abroad. And if you like the lake, the countryside and the mountains, the Lausanne area could be a better choice (well, I must admit that since my studies in Lausanne, this city has kept my heart ;)). And the Lausanne area is less expensive and I find its global offer in terms of cultural events wider than the one from Geneva, especially in terms of free events.
Now, one thing to know is that Geneva is that much expensive in terms of rents partly because of expats and diplomats (not that I have something against expats, be sure of that! :) ). Why? Simply because several years ago, companies like Procter & Gamble and others from that kind started paying rents for available appartments in order to reserve them for potential expats that would come working for them. And from what I heard, they did not pay small rents... With the current situation with appartments' availability in Geneva, this had as consequence that the offer in the area was artificially strongly reduced, with appartement (mostly 3-4 rooms, those that everyone wants) not used but not available neither on the market. And then the basics of economy simply applied. Less offer, more demand, those who can pay get what they want, they others can wait. Geneva has only 0.2% of available appartments currently...
The text you are quoting:
Indeed, Geneva is not only expensive but a lot about "showing off" too. Bah, go to the countryside. ;)
I am swiss and have lived in the area nearly forever, right between Geneva and Lausanne. I lived first around Nyon which is now considered as being the suburbs of Geneva and has become increasingly expensive too. Now I am closer from Lausanne (15 minutes by train) a "countryside city" as some people from Geneva would say, but that I find much more friendly. ;)
Is Geneva worth it's price? I really do not know. I really think that it depends on what you are looking for. If your life is all about partying all night and shopping in great boutiques, you should in my opinion rather go to Zurich or stay abroad. And if you like the lake, the countryside and the mountains, the Lausanne area could be a better choice (well, I must admit that since my studies in Lausanne, this city has kept my heart ;)). And the Lausanne area is less expensive and I find its global offer in terms of cultural events wider than the one from Geneva, especially in terms of free events.
Now, one thing to know is that Geneva is that much expensive in terms of rents partly because of expats and diplomats (not that I have something against expats, be sure of that! :) ). Why? Simply because several years ago, companies like Procter & Gamble and others from that kind started paying rents for available appartments in order to reserve them for potential expats that would come working for them. And from what I heard, they did not pay small rents... With the current situation with appartments' availability in Geneva, this had as consequence that the offer in the area was artificially strongly reduced, with appartement (mostly 3-4 rooms, those that everyone wants) not used but not available neither on the market. And then the basics of economy simply applied. Less offer, more demand, those who can pay get what they want, they others can wait. Geneva has only 0.2% of available appartments currently...
Funny_Turtle, Jul 10, 2009 @ 18:04
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 12
Jul 10, 2009 @ 18:06
Where is really the problem? it's their entire right to act like buffoons and waste their income he way they wish. That's hardly an specific "Geneva" behavior. Paris, Tokyo, NY and Milan are far more advanced in that category, not to mention Moscow, Istanbul or Athens...
the verb "pretend" is correct. Surely you know that true wealth in Geneva is hardly noticeable in public. Perhaps if you hang out in other places than La Boheme :cool:
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Where is really the problem? it's their entire right to act like buffoons and waste their income he way they wish. That's hardly an specific "Geneva" behavior. Paris, Tokyo, NY and Milan are far more advanced in that category, not to mention Moscow, Istanbul or Athens...
the verb "pretend" is correct. Surely you know that true wealth in Geneva is hardly noticeable in public. Perhaps if you hang out in other places than La Boheme :cool:
swisskiss, Jul 10, 2009 @ 18:06
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 13
Jul 10, 2009 @ 20:19
[quote][quote]
Why are you staying? :P[/quote]
Just because I'm not interested in prices! I like the city, it's people, the location, the nature all that- and finally I have to study here and I'm desperately looking for a place to live...
If I read that available space was artifically cut down, this makes me furious:
Living quality was discarded for speculator's interests.
And I have to admit: public transport is not that expensive and especially the railroad network is fantastic in Switzerland.
Why are you staying? :P[/quote]
Just because I'm not interested in prices! I like the city, it's people, the location, the nature all that- and finally I have to study here and I'm desperately looking for a place to live...
If I read that available space was artifically cut down, this makes me furious:
Living quality was discarded for speculator's interests.
And I have to admit: public transport is not that expensive and especially the railroad network is fantastic in Switzerland.
The text you are quoting:
[quote][quote]
Why are you staying? :P[/quote]
Just because I'm not interested in prices! I like the city, it's people, the location, the nature all that- and finally I have to study here and I'm desperately looking for a place to live...
If I read that available space was artifically cut down, this makes me furious:
Living quality was discarded for speculator's interests.
And I have to admit: public transport is not that expensive and especially the railroad network is fantastic in Switzerland.
Joensy, Jul 10, 2009 @ 20:19
Why are you staying? :P[/quote]
Just because I'm not interested in prices! I like the city, it's people, the location, the nature all that- and finally I have to study here and I'm desperately looking for a place to live...
If I read that available space was artifically cut down, this makes me furious:
Living quality was discarded for speculator's interests.
And I have to admit: public transport is not that expensive and especially the railroad network is fantastic in Switzerland.
Joensy, Jul 10, 2009 @ 20:19
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 14
Jul 17, 2012 @ 12:27
To update a thread from 2009:
The latest Worldwide Cost of Living 2012 report of www.eiu.com. Switzerland is still leading with Geneva being no. 3 now
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To update a thread from 2009:
The latest Worldwide Cost of Living 2012 report of www.eiu.com. Switzerland is still leading with Geneva being no. 3 now
rena, Jul 17, 2012 @ 12:27
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 15
Jul 17, 2012 @ 13:01
Jan 1, 70 01:00
Yes, Chris and Switzerland has seen strong currency movements over the last few years which have made the country relatively more expensive plus investors looking for a haven currency.
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Yes, Chris and Switzerland has seen strong currency movements over the last few years which have made the country relatively more expensive plus investors looking for a haven currency.
rena, Jul 17, 2012 @ 13:01
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 16
Jul 17, 2012 @ 13:04
Jan 1, 70 01:00
I dont know about Germany, but in Holland I would pay double the tax on social charges as what I pay here percentage wise (atleast 35%)
The AVS pension is 2,5x higher then in The Netherlands.
Health insurance is maybe a little cheaper, but also on this point they are catching up.
For the rent I pay I can buy a nice house in The Netherlands. However considering the Swiss surroundings, The Netherlands isn`t a match. Ofcourse this point does not count for Germans.
Considering the higher wage in comparison, unless you came here as a store clerk at Coop, you have nothing to complain. The only thing about Geneva is that the housing market is bad, just like in any other big city. In Amsterdam an appartment of 40 square meter will cost you around 600 - 700 euro and an average salary there of 35k CHF a year is very normal. I think they are worse off.
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I dont know about Germany, but in Holland I would pay double the tax on social charges as what I pay here percentage wise (atleast 35%)
The AVS pension is 2,5x higher then in The Netherlands.
Health insurance is maybe a little cheaper, but also on this point they are catching up.
For the rent I pay I can buy a nice house in The Netherlands. However considering the Swiss surroundings, The Netherlands isn`t a match. Ofcourse this point does not count for Germans.
Considering the higher wage in comparison, unless you came here as a store clerk at Coop, you have nothing to complain. The only thing about Geneva is that the housing market is bad, just like in any other big city. In Amsterdam an appartment of 40 square meter will cost you around 600 - 700 euro and an average salary there of 35k CHF a year is very normal. I think they are worse off.
ThomasNL, Jul 17, 2012 @ 13:04
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 17
Jul 17, 2012 @ 18:16
All these ratings depend on what is taken into account. Some take into consideration the daily "basket", others account for cost of electronics as well, or cars, housing and access to education so every one of them will give a different result.
I do believe that however you look at it Geneva will be in top 10, with cars, household electronics, housing and food being insanely expensive.
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All these ratings depend on what is taken into account. Some take into consideration the daily "basket", others account for cost of electronics as well, or cars, housing and access to education so every one of them will give a different result.
I do believe that however you look at it Geneva will be in top 10, with cars, household electronics, housing and food being insanely expensive.
catalin, Jul 17, 2012 @ 18:16
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 18
Jul 17, 2012 @ 19:59
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 19
Jul 17, 2012 @ 21:04
All these ratings depend on what is taken into account. Some take into consideration the daily "basket", others account for cost of electronics as well, or cars, housing and access to education so every one of them will give a different result.
I do believe that however you look at it Geneva will be in top 10, with cars, household electronics, housing and food being insanely expensive.
Jul 17, 12 18:16
You are right Catalin:
So here's what is taken into account. The figures below indicate the sum of individual weights attributed to all the items which compose each of the index categories. They are as follows:
%
Shopping basket
25.0
Alcoholic beverages
3.5
Household supplies
4.5
Personal care
4.0
Tobacco
2.5
Utilities
6.5
Clothing
13.0
Domestic help
3.5
Recreation & entertainment
18.0
Transportation
19.5
TOTAL
100.0
And again: most of the above posts are from 2009. So things might have changed in the meantime!
I came accross this cost of living survey today and thought an update might be interesting as this was discussed in the past on glocals (no additional rant about lovely Geneva!).
The text you are quoting:
You are right Catalin:
So here's what is taken into account. The figures below indicate the sum of individual weights attributed to all the items which compose each of the index categories. They are as follows:
%
Shopping basket
25.0
Alcoholic beverages
3.5
Household supplies
4.5
Personal care
4.0
Tobacco
2.5
Utilities
6.5
Clothing
13.0
Domestic help
3.5
Recreation & entertainment
18.0
Transportation
19.5
TOTAL
100.0
And again: most of the above posts are from 2009. So things might have changed in the meantime!
I came accross this cost of living survey today and thought an update might be interesting as this was discussed in the past on glocals (no additional rant about lovely Geneva!).
rena, Jul 17, 2012 @ 21:04
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 20
Jul 17, 2012 @ 22:43
Guinness is between 9CHF and 10.50 CHF..... I think thats alot. But Im assured by a few barkeeps that most bars loose money on Guinness, since its horendously expensive to import, but they have it to encourage custom, since most Guinness drinkers will also from time to time have some shots....
One has to be careful where to drink and to observe happy hours...
Meat is my other bug bear... its a protectionist society for home grown animals and still over priced... 90CHF to 120CHF per kilo of decent beef...for fekks sake, I can probably buy a sodding cow for that money.
property is expensive because we live in a small corner of Switzerland that is surrounded by borders...so its a captive rental audience...
As to the rest...as Shaun said... learn where to shop or drink and you'll get used to the prices...
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Guinness is between 9CHF and 10.50 CHF..... I think thats alot. But Im assured by a few barkeeps that most bars loose money on Guinness, since its horendously expensive to import, but they have it to encourage custom, since most Guinness drinkers will also from time to time have some shots....
One has to be careful where to drink and to observe happy hours...
Meat is my other bug bear... its a protectionist society for home grown animals and still over priced... 90CHF to 120CHF per kilo of decent beef...for fekks sake, I can probably buy a sodding cow for that money.
property is expensive because we live in a small corner of Switzerland that is surrounded by borders...so its a captive rental audience...
As to the rest...as Shaun said... learn where to shop or drink and you'll get used to the prices...
Charlie, Jul 17, 2012 @ 22:43
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 21
Jul 17, 2012 @ 23:02
oh I forget...we also (mostly) earn more here than most other countries and "net" take home pay is bigger... so that kinda makes up for the difference.
Dont compare it with home and it wont be so much of a shock... then again Ive been here so long I have no idea what things cost back home.
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oh I forget...we also (mostly) earn more here than most other countries and "net" take home pay is bigger... so that kinda makes up for the difference.
Dont compare it with home and it wont be so much of a shock... then again Ive been here so long I have no idea what things cost back home.
Charlie, Jul 17, 2012 @ 23:02
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 22
Jul 18, 2012 @ 02:32
I find my current residence in LA to be more expensive than in Geneva. The salary in Ca isnt compensating for the higher prices the same suisse wages do. Working and living in Geneva is a good quality of life, it's those visiting that suffer the prices.
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I find my current residence in LA to be more expensive than in Geneva. The salary in Ca isnt compensating for the higher prices the same suisse wages do. Working and living in Geneva is a good quality of life, it's those visiting that suffer the prices.
Lexillent, Jul 18, 2012 @ 02:32
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 23
Jul 18, 2012 @ 09:38
I find my current residence in LA to be more expensive than in Geneva. The salary in Ca isnt compensating for the higher prices the same suisse wages do. Working and living in Geneva is a good quality of life, it's those visiting that suffer the prices.
Jul 18, 12 02:32
Just wait until you calculate your California income tax...
Oh, and have you registered your cars in CA yet? =)
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Just wait until you calculate your California income tax...
Oh, and have you registered your cars in CA yet? =)
richardm, Jul 18, 2012 @ 09:38
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Re: DEBATE: Is Geneva the 4th most expensive city in the world for expats?
Post 24
Jul 18, 2012 @ 11:25
Jan 1, 70 01:00
Chris send me your HR's operatives name and number so I can point out to them that youre willing to take a 50% cut.... they'll love you in these turbulent times...
;-))))
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Chris send me your HR's operatives name and number so I can point out to them that youre willing to take a 50% cut.... they'll love you in these turbulent times...
;-))))
Charlie, Jul 18, 2012 @ 11:25
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