Related (anectotal) observation, why did the current generation suddenly decide it's not ok to slap some discipline into your kids? It's worked very well for (literally) centuries.

We privately thought the same thing, but the generation in between would be horrified!

If they were open to it, perhaps your son and DIL could go on a one-day programme (held in London) for Teachers, Mentors and Parents - see in this list: http://www.angermanage.co.uk/Anger-issues/bespoke.html   If your son/DIL were against this, you could always go on it then diplomatically share your wisdom learnt on the course!  I have no idea whether your grandaughters will grow out of this... All I do know is that it's never too late to change patterns of behaviour in life. You don't make it clear in your post whether, as grandmother, your son and DIL allow you to 'interfere' and try and install a bit more consistent discipline. Wishing you much family harmony!

I can relate with you Sheila, and feel your pain. My Sister in law has pretty much this setup. I was brought, or as my father would say 'dragged up with a wooden spoon' in a very old fashioned way, and can't say I'm worse for wear from it. I recently cancelled a trip to my wifes family after enduring the shreiks and perpetual noise in my home for 2 weeks when they came to visit. What really irked me about this non confrontational generation, was when I did scream at the kids to shut up at 11pm (no bed time also), it was followed shortly after with a 'oh uncle kevin is only joking...' ehm, no, they were quite from shock for 2 minutes....

Anyway, my only solution was to remove the issue. The parents. I would kidnap the kids, 6 and 3, for trips to Migros, car wash, etc. Giving mum and dad 30 minutes 'breathing space'. Whereby I instilled my noise tolerance and crash course listening techniques. i.e. Listen to me, and I will tell you stories and let you get mini cheese's in teh supermarket and chase you through the forest or better yet let you wash the car. Because as we know also this generation fails to educate basic, but very much fun daily things. I found after 2 weeks the kids tended towards a different behaviour around me in particular. Doing things as I asked, noise down etc. So why you ask, did I then cancel the return trip, and continue the training. Unfortuantely the training works on kids, not the adults. SIL felt threatened and turned on me and began her own symphony of noise. 

All in all, I blame Dr Phil and his crackpot, talk about your feelings crap. If and when I have kids, I am moving them to a remote greek island and will drag them up without this generations faults. Unfortunately in my opinion I do not see a method of growing out of these issues, unless you are sent to live with your mean uncle on a greek island, without your parents. 

This book (which a colleague mentioned to me) sounds interesting: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nurtureshock-Everything-Thought-About-Children/dp/0091933781/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378827668&sr=8-1&keywords=nurture+shock  However, I believe that it does not mention uncles on Greek islands. I have no idea whether it mentions talking about your feelings!

Maybe not in this case perhaps but sometimes the child or children have a developmental problem like Aspergers, which can cause this behaviour. Its not always the parents fault or 'bad upbringing'.  And the parents do not have to explain their childrens behaviour to everyone.

Slapping children is illegal in a lot of countries and quite rightly so; after all we cant all go around slapping irritable old people and children who p#ss us off can we?

Thank you for your input. It was alarming to read that the children might have Aspergers, which I have just looked up on Wikipedia. They are both extremely bright, very forward for their respective ages. The elder one loves Fossils [at 4!] and the younger one's vocabulary is astonishing for her age, with barely a mistake in grammar, albeit limited.

Their parents would never, ever slap them, although both become exasperated with the constant hysterical outbursts - who wouldn't?

I'll hit a curveball out into left field....  Is there any possibility of checking the kids blood sugar (glucose) levels when one of these tantrums occurs?

Hi Sheila

How sad that you did not really enjoy the entire time with your grandchildren .

As grandparents, the lovely thing is that we can walk away knowing it is not our problem to deal with on a daily basis. All care, no resonsiblity! However, we also have the right to enjoy the time we spend with them, and to expect that it will be as enjoyable for them as it is for us.

It is very difficult to impose our own expectations of discipline on our children and more importantly their spouses/partners. It is too easy to be labelled as 'interfering'! I do believe the current generation of parents have a difficult job to do in a society where disciplinary measures are expected to be by negotiation only - not that I advocate for corporal punishment by any means, but there are situations where negotiation just doesn't work. ("Dear little Johnny, do you think it is appropriate behaviour to run out on the road when there is a car coming? Perhaps you could please consider staying by my side and holding my hand?").

I actually think Uncle Kevin's advice is very sound. Sometimes, just taking them out of their usual environment and spending time with them on your territory or terms will work well. Can you bear the thought of suggesting that they come and have a holiday with you, while the parents go off somewhere else for a break? Perhaps they are secretly frustrated with the tantrums also. That way they will get some time out, the children will get to stay with you (abiding by your rules, which you can spell out on arrival and reinforce during the holiday) and you will get to spend quality time with them.

And yes, they will grow out of it. By the time they get through school they will realise that it doesn't work to throw a tantrum with the teacher or their classmates. 

Juliane

maybe similar to richardm's  post 

Some food/drink ingredients may cause hyper-excitedness.

I know of a couple who had to remove various drinks/foods from their child's diet due to certain substances in them making him hyperexcited. Truly difficult for them (and him) at times.

He had to learn to avoid them and was quite different calmer and happier when he no longer ingested them. You can find out more about this if you search on the net. Sorry it's a while ago now so can't remember all the details

 What am talking about above is different from blood sugar

Possibly gluten.  Gluten elimination has become a fad lately but that doesn't change the fact that its elimination does improve health in some cases, including mental health.

I wonder if the children of my generation (speaking of generation Z, the one after mine) already lack basic education, or are drugged with two tons of medication that just communication could replace, how will my generation's grandchildren grow up to become ?

Hi Sheila,

I was thinking about this last night; and maybe your presence excites the children; after all children love their grandparents and all of the attention they get from you;  maybe they vie (vye?) for attention from you and become competative with each other. The youngest gets attention because she shrieks, and the older one copies as she sees that it works!

In a quiet moment, ask the mum and dad what they want you to do when they 'kick off' - its very stressful when you have children who do this; you get angry stares when out in public whatever you do. Slap them and shout or reason with them, you're going to annoy half the population whatever you do.

If they do have high level Aspergers, do not worry: everyone I know who has this is special, theyhave a tough time of it when young, but they are bright!

There is a saying: ''Be nice to the Aspergers kid, as one day he'll be your boss'!! 

good luck. xx

Yes they will grow out of it... its attention seeking, if they're constantly given whatever they want during the tantrums then thats bad since they will know that the trantrum = reward.

Best to ignore, and then reward them for "not" having a tantrum....

Don't stress, you dont have psycho grand daughters... just kids pushing their limits.

We should like to say a profound thanks to all the kindly people who have helpfully contributed to this thread with various options, ideas, suggestions and even insights to their own experiences. It has been very interesting to read all the comments.

The two girls are exceptionally clever and bright for their respective ages so maybe this has something to do with the whole scenario - we all tend to treat them as miniature adults as they often ask adult questions. The elder child is now in school full time [at 4 years 3 months] simply because there is fierce competition for places in their chosen private school which has an enviable reputation. The little one goes twice per week for two mornings only but this in itself is taxing for two little children we feel.

However, we have decided in order not to alienate our daughter-in-law with "helpful" - read interfering from her point of view - suggestions, but sadly to not communicate our thoughts unless they turn to us for advice.

My own MIL - mother of five children including twins - gave me advice on how to educate our son [the present children's father] which I remembered was not well received. It is heartbreaking to watch these hysterics and not do anything about them but to totally alienate our son and DIL would be much worse, especially as we only see them ca. every 4-6 months logistics being what they are. Hopefully the girls will outgrow this phase soon. Thanks again

Dude, there are literally dozens of people at work I would like to slap fuck out of but I can't because you can't hit people. It's illegal and unacceptable. Why are children any different?

BTW - my dad was extremely heavy handed and when his turn came around once I was old enough.....boy did he regret ever laying a hand on me.

Shiela,

They will grow out of it. My girls were, at times OBNOXIOUS at that age. They have strong emotions and limited skills to deal with those emotions. I also read that young children are not good at identifying their own feelings and emotions. Have you ever noticed how you can ask a kid if they're hungry and they will say no and then a while later they will ask for something to eat. This is also a huge source fo confusion and frustration for them. Relax. You'll get a few quiet years and then once they become teens it will start all over again ;-)

On an unrelated note I walked past my 9 year old daughter's bedroom and heard her singing "My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard" (a Kelis song). I ran in screaming "You keep your milkshake OUTTA the yard! If I see any milkshake or any boys in that yard someone's gonna get an ass kicking" ....did I over react?

Here they are......

They are real darlings, adorable, when they are not screaming!