Men just get caught more.

Yup.

there is a difference between an "affair", where most often both parties know the situation of the other.... and

a "one night stand", where it would seem one party or the other lies about their marital situation to get to the end goal..

Either way cheating is cheating and I suspect both sexes are equally to blame in many cases.

Nice response but and if that were true I'd be interested in what that may be?

Yes, There is a saying  'men are only as faithful as their options'.

Who are men being alduterous with?... is it a serious question that one? Well I am going to answer then:

- the Au pair? A work collegue? A girlfriend of his wife? A neighbour? The babysitter? The saleswomen of his favourite shop? The waitress where he has his coffee everyday?... Who? Everybody who has long eyelishes & a sweet voice I guess! :-) 

Men are faithful... a time. Women should never be to blind in love. Never too paranoid neither, but they have to open their eyes carefully on their partner and on the women around.

And there is a big difference between a one night stand that I could forgive and a "hidden story" for which I will pack up my things and go away with my children.

It was a serious question a but subtle one i.e. if there is adultery then there must be a consenting party and therefore an accomplice - likely to be a woman.  Some may not know but most in time will, and does that suddenly bring things to a halt? It would not seem so. Perhaps the question should be why is there adultery.    

When one of the two is single, he/she cant commit adultery.

Anw i agree with Lexi. Same amount. Women just dont get caught as much

I think that men are more adulerous than women and that it is accepted by society.

Chris Rock explains why men can't cheat, and why women can.

(Language warning...)

But simply, women are better liars and more detail oriented.  Plus experience has taught us to look for the signs..  The average male ego is too inflated to think she'd rather be with someone else.  

I think that women when in love don't feel like being alulterous.

Men can behave differently. It's still the same old story.

Women will think twice before acting but men will only think one time and go for it. That s the big difference between them.

Yey,Marion,maybe this is the time for feminists(or those vaguely interested in said mouvement)to re-examine our attitudes to sexual fulfilment and monogamy and the idea that one person cannot satisfy all one's needs.maybe it is time for women to think-hey,why SHOULD we think twice (what is it - precisely that holds US back?)

Very interesting

women are just perfect in keeping up the myth of (marital) fidelity

The rate is about the same for the two sexes, with a slight overrepresentation for one of the sexes*, as studies, where people self-report their "adventures", show.

*I leave it to the reader(s) to find out, which one.. not least, because, I don't have the references on hand.

1) women with kids do cheat as well... they have needs same as women without kids...

2) It seems men get caught more as said above, and that general concensus is that men have less morals... Im not sure this is true, and may be urban legend.

3) an unhappy married environment will lead to one or the other "cheating"... a happy one won't.

4) ... does it count if its in another Canton / Country? ;-)

Women with kids cover their tracks better. Most people who cheat do not get caught because they had sex with someone else.  They get caught because they continued an affair with someone.  Sex is pretty easy to hide, keeping someone on the side gets alot harder. (I say this as someone in a relationship, who has never cheated.. im just a realist)

As said on a previous thread,it's probably not helpful to generalize about what "we" would do  but rather talk about ourselves.

I don't think any individual can claim,on everyone's behalf "we just wouldn't do" something (though personally,I see where you are coming from )

Men are hardwired by evolution in a different way than women, and that largely defines our sexual behavior. Men evolved to attempt to spread their semen as much as possible to increase the chances that their genes make it to the next generation. Taking care of a woman and the offspring is part of this survival strategy because in order for the genes to survive the child must survive. But that doesn't prevent the man to go elsewhere  - it costs nothing in terms of resources.

For women it is different, and once pregnant they have to deliver in order for their genes to make it further. Sex with muliple partners at this stage is of no value, but keeping the father close and having him provide is of critical importance. However, before a woman is pregnant, she is playing a game: on one hand, she has to secure a man who will provide, but she will go around looking for the optimal sperm donor. 

Here comes the trick - for a woman, having a faithful man is of some, but comparatively little benefit. As long as the man provides during pregnancy and rearing offspring, it doesn't matter if he would leave his seed elsewhere (with the risk that he could start providing elsewhere). So a woman will tolerate a cheating man to some extent.

On the other hand, a cheating woman is unacceptable to a man. If he is not sure if a woman is pregnant with his offspring he runs a risk of providing for a long time for a child that is not his, and that would be a massive waste of resources.

So all in all, men are probably more likely to cheat in general because for them timing is of no importance. A woman who consciously or subcounsciously wants to reproduce will be as prone to promiscuity.

- and not just a waste of resources, but also potentially a waste of his entire procreation through no fault of his own (assuming he has no children otherwise), which is a deceit in a whole other league than "merely" having to divert resources to his mistress's (and his) child instead of solely to his wife's (and his) child.

So men and women look differently on the matter (but are both active to about the same extent - and it's not a small extent, either. I'll find some proper references supporting this claim later).

For this reason and those stated by other posters, I dare say that, on the hypothetical subject of mandatory DNA paternity tests, the majority of women will be strongly opposed ("It's about trust!") with the majority of men in favor ("I need to know!"). After millions of years, gender equality is within reach (hehe).

Your post is very interesting Cisio, it provides a lot of scientific explanations however I'm convinced that men can avoid being adulterous and that many are faithful to their wives!

"I dare say that, on the hypothetical subject of mandatory DNA paternity tests, the majority of women will be strongly opposed ("It's about trust!") with the majority of men in favor ("I need to know!")."

There's no "will be" about it.  Feminist groups and women in general are strongly opposed.  Cuckoldry is one of the most ancient feminine prerogatives.  The test don't happen because men are too spineless to demand them.

I read a stat somewhere that 10% of all babies born in the US have an "impossible" blood type (given the alleged parents' types).  Food for thought.

Those stats are replicated in other countries.. if one can find them.

Given what's at stake, I say that "Need to know" trumps "Just trust me". Every. Time.

Yes without a doubt the majority of men are more then woman...

Agree

since people are not quoting this thread becomes increasingly difficult to follow. I don't quite understand what Fifi was trying to say ("majority of men are more than woman"??), and consequently have no idea what or who is Florella agreeing with.

Hi cisio,

you're totally right it was my mistake, I was supposed to answer with quote but something got wrong , so now I'll go back to the post and make a correct answer with quote

I think its probably equal but maybe men like to boast about it more

Global statistic show Men are more adulterous than woman:) Tiger Woods, Arnold Schwarzenegger, John Terry, Bill Clinton, Herman Cain to name a few...I have been trying  to think of a woman but cant find any... 

I have read men are biologically conditioned to cheat and some say its like a dog marking every territory but than I am wrong as many here think there are equal adulterous women out there..who are smart enough to hide their trails....

These women seriously should think about coaching our men to hide theirs so that peace prevails at home and to save their careers and marraige!!!

Biologically conditioned...thats a real cop out if you ask me

"global statistic"?? what statistic?

and I could actually give you a few names but I prefer to stay discrete;) might still want to get some...

;-)

It is most certainly not. Evolutionary mechanisms sit at the basic layers of the brain and can certainly be overrun by higher brain activities. The concept of faith exists higher up and as such can take the upper hand, certainly. After all, people use contraceptives, which is a nonsense from the evolutionary perspective. However, many of actions can be conditioned by this low level brain activity and being aware of it can help you consciously choose to follow your instincts, or not:)

So it's a cop out only if you are aware of it and still do it;)

The Biological thing is not relevant anymore right now cause this theory said that women were not cheater cause they needed the protection of their man ... in term of survey it was important. Now men know that a woman can survive by herself so this "unbreakable link" doesn't exist anymore! So because the nature of women changed, I guess the nature of men did change too!! Take care of your precious relationship, love your partner as much as you can and crossed-fingers !! that's the rule for both men or women!!!

What I men that there are more men cheating around ,then woman.

What I ment*

good grief... evolution doesn't work at the same speed as cultural changes. And no, deep inside we are still as good as cavemen. With a bit of extra knowledge

Yes and No

evolution, biologically conditioned, bla bla bla ... is just a excuse, alibi, poor justification ... adult people should be able to decide themselves what is imporant for them ... and if they are just driven by their hormones, they shouldn't be allowed to have a driving license or a leading position in a job ...

Adultery (also called philandery or cheating, anglicized from Latin adulterium) is sexual infidelity to one's spouse, and is a form of extramarital sex. It originally referred only to sex between a woman who was married and a person other than her spouse.[1] Even in cases of separation from one's spouse, an extramarital affair is still considered adultery.

(source Wiki)

So , if youre married, any sexual contact with anyone other than your legal wife is adultery...

 As to the monogamous instincts of mankind....According to "Wiki"  and various surveys, it would seem men are more likely to "wonder" than women.

Monogamy, (ie staying with one partner), It also cites that this evolution of monogamous relationships in humans probably started some 18'000 years ago with the advent of the "agricultural age". Ie the need to stay in one place to harvest crops.

Most primates practice a form of monogamy , as do other animals eg Lions etc, (ie they do it with numerous selected females in their group... kind of like the numerous wives allowed by the Muslim faith, so long as you can provide for the females) which suggests that our DNA or genetic breeding is infact more tuned to keeping our gene pool alive with one or a select few females, rather than just shagging anything that moves...

Suprisingly, for me anyway, the precentages of incidence of "adultery" for women are lower than mens..BUT NOT BY MUCH.

The incidence of sexual monogamy can be roughly estimated as the percentage of married people who do not engage in extramarital sex. Several studies have looked at the percentage of people who engage in extramarital sex. These studies have shown that extramarital sex varies across cultures and across genders.

The Standard Cross-Cultural Sample describes the amount of extramarital sex by men and women in over 50 pre-industrial cultures.[61][62] The amount of extramarital sex by men is described as "universal" in 6 cultures, "moderate" in 29 cultures, "occasional" in 6 cultures, and "uncommon" in 10 cultures. The amount of extramarital sex by women is described as "universal" in 6 cultures, "moderate" in 23 cultures, "occasional" in 9 cultures, and "uncommon" in 15 cultures. These findings support the claim that the amount of extramarital sex differs across cultures and across genders.

Recent surveys conducted in non-Western nations have also found cultural and gender differences in extramarital sex. A study of sexual behavior in Thailand, Tanzania and Côte d'Ivoire suggests about 16–34% of men engage in extramarital sex while a much smaller (unreported) percentage of women engage in extramarital sex.[63] Studies in Nigeria have found around 47–53% of men and to 18–36% of women engage in extramarital sex.[64][65] A 1999 survey of married and cohabiting couples in Zimbabwe reports that 38% of men and 13% of women engaged in extra-couple sexual relationships within the last 12 months.[66]

The issue of extramarital sex has been examined frequently in the United States. Many surveys asking about extramarital sex in the United States have relied on convenience samples. A convenience sample means surveys are given to whoever happens to be easily available (e.g., volunteer college students or volunteer magazine readers). Convenience samples do not accurately reflect the population of the United States as a whole, which can cause serious biases in survey results. It should not be surprising, therefore, that surveys of extramarital sex in the United States have produced widely differing results. These studies report that about 12–26% of married women and 15–43% of married men engage in extramarital sex.[67][68][69] The only way to get scientifically reliable estimates of extramarital sex is to use nationally representative samples. Three studies have used nationally representative samples. These studies have found that about 10–15% of women and 20–25% of men engage in extramarital sex.[70][71][72]

A majority of married people remain sexually monogamous during their marriages. The number of married partners who engage in extramarital sex never exceeds 50% in studies using large or nationally representative samples. Yet, the incidence of sexual monogamy varies across cultures. People in some cultures are more sexually monogamous than people in other cultures. Women also appear to be more sexually monogamous than men.[citation needed]

In the U.S., some studies have found that the majority of gay male couples are not monogamous. Research by Colleen Hoffon of 566 gay male couples from the San Francisco Bay Area found that only 45% had monogamous relationships. That study was funded by the National Institute of Mental Health.[73] However, the Human Rights Campaign has stated, based on a Rockway Institute report, that "GLBT young people... want to spend their adult life in a long-term relationship raising children." Specifically, over 80% of the lesbians and homosexuals surveyed expected to be in a monogamous relationship after age 30.[74]

Hey,you guys-this is supposed to be a place for non-serious discussion(that's what I was told on a previous thread about Single Women)

At this point,my instinct is to find a Google Image of something completely off the point and silly ......but I'm not that talented!

Damn!

Charlie, thanks for this great copy & paste

that was a different thread Buzz... we have "evolved" to another topic now...

throw a six and catch up..

:-))

by statatistics, I meant we hear a lot about men's adultry than women (in newsprints). I can easily find 100 names of men that have cheated on their wives/partners while its so difficult to find a married woman's name to the list:) So my assessment using those names compared to none woman name concluded that men are more adulterous than women!!!!

Ha ha ha - good one.

And glad to hear about the evolution

Men are more adulterous than women because men think than if they have sex with other women it's just in plus of what they already have.

why do men chase after women they have no intention of marrying?

the same reason dogs chase after cars they have no intention of driving

are women 'meant' to be married?;)

Scientists have debunked the myth that 10 per cent of children are illegitimate without their legal fathers knowledge. A new study from Leicester University suggests the figure is one in 25.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1141587/Scientists-challenge-myth-10-children-illegitimate-father-knowing--actually-25.html#ixzz1lJxuuhKY

As was said, to Err is human but while pausing for breath good communication might be a measure of prevention rather than cure. Familiar with Non Violent Communication? it's not what you think as emotions and words are mightier than the sword: http://www.box.com/s/fkl05rvfan03yr205pkl 

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/cheating-and-infidelity/stats-about-infidelity.html

http://www.infidelityfacts.com/infidelity-statistics.html

"Debunked" is perhaps a bit early to say, as previous DNA studies did find much higher rates (up to one in seven), and so the jury is still out. This study does look promising, though. Also, the rate may be different across regions.

I agree with you, buzzcocks :) and .... "never say never", dear Ana Rosa....a man can be more faithful than a woman - mother ! Do not generalize.

marriage is an outdated sociological idea - it may have been workable centuries ago but not now

this is all down to biology - men can father thousands of children in a lifetime and it replenishes...women only produce a few hundred eggs  (I think) in a lifetime and that decreases all the time

that would rule out every man driving or working

sorry but biology and sex are greater than all of us

if this would be the truth we would have never managed to leave the caves ...

Than why are people still marrying??? where did you come from? certainly you do not look a centurian in your profile photo..unless...dont tell me you were carried by the proverbal stork!!!!

But keith P has a point.

When i was younger,my friends and I never even mentioned marriage - it was taken for granted that it was outdated and not necessary.As I got older,I was surprised - and still am- at how younger people still go for it(AND do all the other weird stuff like expensive weddings, anniversaries,engagement rings,etc etc etc)when the divorce statistics tell us "no!!!"

Well I wont be going for a third attempt

Have we really left the "caves" or after finding out that caves were a finite resource did we just start building bigger and better caves and start to fill them with better stuff to attract and keep a mate?

If attracting a mate were no longer a drive we would see far more acceptance of creative ways of life bieng socially acceptable.

OK this getting too deep i have got to go to sleep so I can take part in that most competitive of swiss sports tomorrow -  seeking a better cave for my family.

I am looking a 4 bedroom 2 bathroom cave under 2500chf/month near Nyon if anyone knows of one.

Yabba dabba doo...

I think it is 50% / 50% these days. Nevertheless, the guys started it some years ago and the women caught up. Since the roles of men and women are different now having a "side dish" is equally apealing to men and women. Which makes it of course not better.

I think this is generally an issue as of when one is in a steady relationship with someone. Marriage is not the point here. If we are having troubles to committ to one person in general, adultry would be an escape for real committment and our need to permanently benchmark ourselves or to look over the fence if the gras is still greener over there. If you have reached the point to cherish what you have and focus on that, I believe wandering around is no longer an option.

Blablabla... And the first thing they ask is: Do you have a condom? ;-)

Thank you for that - very interesting(though be aware that most people posting-including myself-seem to  have very fixed opinions ......and don't seem to care about facts and may not even bother to read them!!)

Well...what can i say? Those were the days,eh?Raw and "honest".Heard an interview recently with a woman from the Raincoats and another Punk woman of the time,saying how it was a very liberating time for female artists who could compete with the men on their own terms -Rhiannathe Bloody Spice Girls,hip-hop videos,gangsta-rap,R&B babes with puckered lips and perfect airbrushed bodies decorationg the posters.....where did it all go wrong?

Bring back the filfth and the fury - and Siouxsie taking no nonsense....

Hey if your going to make comments like - "The guys started it" please do back up your statements with some references.

Just from simple historical (if maybe widely inaccurate) references of Jesus getting in the way of a stoning of an adulterous woman we can guess that Adultery has been around at least 1100 years (its questioned if this passage was added into later versions of the Bible about the 9th century).

OK one the bible I agree is a very biased book and women were definately unfairly treated after the romans got hold of the religon, so we won't read anything into the idea that it was a woman being stoned. But...

Even until relatively modern times (100 years ago) women frequently married for stability so they often married Men far older than themselves, and lets face it to a 20 year old woman a 35 years old man is a old fart, plus the common idea is that Males reach the peak of their sex drive in their teens, while women reach it in their thirties.

So in a typical couple from 1000 years ago that had young women marring relatively old men for security -  which one is like to wish to cheat? the Young women entering her sexual prime or the old git whos sex drive is something that he dimly remembers?

Lets face it the man also has an young women to go to bad with (not a great drive to go looking elsewhere) where she has a wrinkled sausage and a couple of old rasins to look forward to. Who do you think has this best reason to go looking for a "side dish"?

Ok course this is just speculation I wasn't there 1000/2000 years ago and unless the people on this forum are far older than their photos let on nor was anyone else.

Please remember that when casting the first stone in this battle of the sexes. Last time I looked Woman didn't mean innocent and Man didn't mean devil with a poker.

 thank you, I do share this with you !

Thanks David for mentioning love and trust!

It makes sense Chris...except for the fact that a child born in 1000AD had a life expectancy of 24 years... so my guess is that people were either marrying very very young (early teens) or not married for long, or both.

I understand that 100 years ago or so the life expectancy was higher but not by much  ..A male child born in 1903 had a life expectancy of 49 years, while a female had a life expectancy of 51 years.

Obviously war and nutrition had its impact on these figures, and it is not country or race specific (and Im guessing that depending on race and country the figure for 1903 would vary greatly but probably not so much for 1000AD unless you were a well to do Roman)...

Hi Charlie remember that life expectancy is taken as an average. So if a group of 20 Romans are accessed and unfortunately they have a high infant mortality rate.

(4+5+4+60+55+47+26+3+62+34+43+2+1+57+43+3+28+54+61+48)/20 = 30

If we discount the infant deaths (pre 10) as they little to no bearing to this topic

(60+55+47+26+62+34+43+57+43+28+54+61+48)/13=42

And then as you thought the age of consent until relatively recently was as low as 10-12 years old.

YESSS! Why should we think twice?? If you have an idea or passion then do it!! Stop analyse what if someone els wont like it. what if other girls will find me less woman! Most of us are slaves of society! RULES: Woman should be smart and hold them self back! Woman should be the neck of the man! Woman should listen and men should do! etc. If you wanna blow up someones mind, do it! if you wish to walk naked, walk! If you wish to sing loud in the middle of a road, do so! If you wish to be as much as kid as man are do it! Follow your heart not others! And guess what, I do so, I follow my heart and passion not others! Lot dont like it and lot find me stupid but guess what, I DONT CARE! It is my life and if somone has a problem with me or my style they should be able to go back where they came or ignore me. Ones who can ´t ignore it are the ones who are jealous!  So if you wish to jump you should jump the question is how do you jump! rest should be left to your heart and passion!

Yes, it seems women are more faithful than men. However, the scenario is changing perhaps as the societal norms are changing.

Self-admitted cheating rates among those who were married when they were fooling around, sorted in descending order by female creeping: (source: http://anepigone.blogspot.ch/2010/03/infidelity-rates-by-ethnicity.html)

French

lets be honest the one who wants to cheat will cheat no matter what! My question is, why to cheat?? Can´t you just devorce, be single, make it clear to your partner you are no longer happy with them? Why you are in relationship if you soo badly like to bang some other doors? Why are you with someone if you think you are like a pot of paint where all shorts of paintbrushes can fit them selves in?? If you you are no longer able to be faithful it is time to tell your partner and brake their heart! Honesty mightbe hard to take but trust me it is ten times better then finding out how you have been sharing your  bot or brush with others! Nothing will wash off the dirt of lies! Be single and careless or be in relationship for right reasons! And I will never understand these who get married and then cheat their partner, NEVER! I have never cheated and I will never do it! Give him/her what you want for return!

I agree hundred pourcent with you Merike......once you are not attracted anymore to the one you live with you should leave even though its not easy.....

There could be different opinion. Some people feel that men are polygamous by nature and therefore may look for opportunities all the time. An age-old system of female sex workers substantiate that. 

But there could be another opinion too. Till today, lives and sexual lives of wome is being controlled in most of the societies. That may mean that they have less opportunities to be unfaithful than men. A real comparison can only be done when both have equal status and opportunities.

I'd have to agree with you Chris as we can see from this clip, adulterous behaviour and the suspicion of said behaviour has been going on since the dawn of time...

With reference to your 2nd para - I'm glad you used subjective language. 

In "our" European society (i.e. the one in which most the glocals members live) I would hope (whether one agrees with it) or not.that women and men have "equal status and opportunities" for adulterous behaviour,

And if someone feels that they do not, then it can only be a matter of personal choice.

Other societies may have (religious) restrictions on women's sexual "status and opportunities", but no-one can control what's going on in anyone's mind. 

The place where ALL (male AND female) adulterous thoughts begin.

Ok the actual act of adultery apart....

Women or Men who "knowingly" go into a relationship with an adulterer are equally as guilty.... discuss...

I saw "knowingly" underscored and, without thinking, tried clicking it.  I'm not sure what this says about me.  :-/

@Maurice H, what nonsense are you talking about?   Men erring? you've got to be joking. Perfection doen't err my dear, it merely drowns in beer...

Women or men can't "knowingly" go into a relationship with an "adulterer" because he or she is not actually an adulterer until they have committed the act of adultery. 

He or she THEN becomes an adulterer. 

You would only go "knowingly" into a relationship with an adulterer if his/her chat up line was "Hi -  I'm married and I fancy trying my hand at adultery - fancy a shag?".......which for some strange reason, I can't see working!

But in either case, yes, equally guilty.

You'd be suprised how many married women and men are quite open about the fact that they are married whilst flirting with someone or chatting them up, or being chatted up... .....  if it leads to a shag then both parties know its adultery... In Geneva its exceptionally common in fact

That's really a good and analytical post.

But that's my point! 

It's not adultery, just flirting.  You can know someone's a flirt, but how do you "knowingly" "know" he/she is an adulterer until you jump into bed with them?

You don't - therefore there's no such thing as "knowingly" going into a relationship with an adulterer.

Sorry for the pedantics, but you did finish your post with "Discuss"

But yes, STILL equally guilty.

And yes, I'm staying away from Geneva, if it's exceptionally common!!

There is nothing wrong with window shopping. Its when you try it on or even buy it that the trouble starts!

If you're window shopping, you're "thinking" about trying it on, possibly buying it and THAT'S where the trouble starts.

Thank god the shops in Switzerland are shut on Sundays - the reduces the possibilities from 7 down to 6!

Not really :) Have you been in rue du Rhone? You cant afford to even window shop there!

Interesting documentary which answers some of the questions above. It's in French though!

http://www.nouvo.ch/2011/08/adult%C3%A8re-mode-demploi

I agree. Gandhi defined non-violence also in the same fashion by taking example of a mouse. He said that a mouse does not harm a cat but that does not mean he is no-violent towards cat. In fact there is mental violence all the time in its mind. The real non-violence is the one, when you are even mentally non-violent.

I think the same aplies on adultery also.

Well said...

Even me, who thought I had found the love of my life here has learned the hard way.  I feel like the most stupid, naive, romantic fool but no more!!!!  I thought we would grow old together but now I grow old alone and for me that is better than to live a life with a cheating liar!!!

I have met sooooo many women at Glocals, no reflection on the site, just my experience... They all bragged!!!! about "having some fun" with a friend's husband...and one didn't blink an eye at demolishing a 20 year marriage... I distanced myself from these horrible, selfish women but that did nothing to protect me.  It is just not men cheating and it does happen even if you are happily married...so sad but so true...

Here is a suggestion!!!! sleep with other single's and if you want to sleep with everyone you meet?! don't get married!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

why do u blame the women for that. if they have sex "with a friends husband", I think the "friends husband" should first of all think about what he is doing. I am single and I don't think too much about the relationship status of the other person, especially because married women lie very often about the real relationship status.

Further I don't think, that "one mistake" should be able to destroy a 20 years marriage .... if this is the case, something else was already not working for a long time

hello,
my humble opinion from currently single guy. Not long ago I had a friend of mine sleeping over for couple of days, she had nowhere else to go and she was the one asking me for a favor. I had a little bit of crush on her before, so I was not very happy about that. She was of course not aware of that, but I told her first day of sleeping over. Thing is, she is in a happy relationship (the word happy is crucial), for a long time, and it's still her first real love. I could go on, but basically I could see if I succeed in seducing her, it would hurt her a lot. And she's going far away, back home, permanently, so nothing more than few passionate moements would happen, followed by havock back home.
So I said to myself nope, not this time, it ain't worth it. And it was hard, especially when we have so much in common, more than any other girl I ever met. There was a moment one evening, when we were quite drunk, and it would be very easy in that concrete moment for me to push little bit more and... well you get the picture. It's something you feel, at least I do as an emphatic person. Anyway, nothing happened, but damn, that was tough!
At the end, double victory. Against my hormonal storm, keeping my promise to not hurt other person I care about, and the knowledge that if I wanted, I could score (somehow important for us guys :)).
Lesson learned (and not only with this lady, but in much harder way, with my ex girlfriend) - women, when away from their beloved ones for quite a while, have need for physical contact (and sometimes more). Way too easy to abuse, all it takes is guy with no morals and little bit of charm, luck and alcohol. It doesn't mean that they fell out of love completely, they're just going through rough times. But when affair continues, things get emotional on woman's side and then relationship is over.

So there you go your stereotypes :)

@Richdog: if sex life is killed in a relationship, then you have to sperate, reactivate it or find an arrangement that one can have his pleasure. but it's crazy in my opinion to expect, that she doesn't have any sex anymore, just because I don't want to have anymore .....

@Martin: you are the perfect gentleman. but I think that a man or a woman can resist the forbidden fruits if they are happy in a relationship.and if they suffer soooo much, when they are away from their beloved ones, we should help them and give them what they need. this means you crucified your friend :-) and on the other hand this means, that our girl/boyfriends are not allowed to leave the home alone because of all these immoral men and women who will seduce our partners :-)

Yes I do, only the other day I was going to meet a man (very close to home - on this site in fact) for a few drinks and found out he was 80% single! He told me he had a long distance g/f and he considered himself to be 20% free to date. I wonder if his poor g/f realised that he was cheat? The urge to tell her was very strong, who would not want to know in the circumstances?

It has been said that men look for sex and find love and women look for love to find sex. The thing is, it is so much kinder to break from a partner before you go off with someone else. It causes so much pain, I do wish that all the adulterers in the world would frak off and marry each other and leave the nice loyal people to live their lives.

Hi Everyone.

This is a very interesting subject to bring to the table. Before we judge others we've to first look into our own selves. Nobody is prefect. Alot of people are in distance relationships that they only see eachother after 3 to 4months, if he/her has an expatriate job that takes him/her away that long.

 I've been there before to better know how it feels. It is damn hard being away from my ex fiance. Our love was strong enough to keep us faithful. But after 3yrs we both failed eachother. After 3months as usual i went to join my love in Beijing, China and found out he cheated and i too honestly told him i did too. Bomb!!! it was a mad house for 6months, i invited that girl over for dinner and talked with her and then i walked out. 8years after we're communicating again, the love is still as strong and powerful. He expressed how greatful and sorry he was, that he deeply appreciates my honesty to tell him even if it hurts. But i'm happy that he is happily married to that woman he cheated on me with. And i'm single with my two beloved daughters, he couldn't give me. And our friendship will always be something to cherish. We've learnt a good lesson. Forgiveness comes amazing grace.

Life is sometimes not fair. Some people are just cheaters, wicked and they enjoy breaking other people's strong love and they take it from you if you stay away too long from your partner. We're humans and we're all sinners of the flesh. Even a great king still fall. But when we do, find a solution to fix it and never run away from it. Love is worth fighting for to keep.

Nothing is parmanent, but when managed well it can be. Change is the only constant thing in life. We change, situation changes us, our environment changes too. But when our heart is broken, it takes time to mend.

If you have not being in a situation, you can never better understand it. Never been married, but I believe in marriages as a secred sacrifies, and i do believe it is still a relationship with a contract that bond you both to be faithful. But there is still a possibility for divorce if you don't fix it. And when you're both parents, sorry this is the everlasting bonds and there is no divorce on this. Marriage doesn't change you, children changes the quality of time, but it becomes more intense and challenging in a good way if you're positive, but you need alittle selfishness to keep it complete.  

Keeping alive your love relationship:Renewing your vows, sex spakes(Important), communication, even your wired fantasies.Share yourselves as well as lose yourselves to mingle with others. Respect! and showing appreciation for eachother and never losing one self. We shouldn't be too relaxed and stop looking 'Hot' for our partners, because we're married or in a great relationship. And no matter what you do or say, a man or a woman who will cheat, some returns and some go away. Every new cloths, there is always an excitement to wear it for the first time. :) And a man once said: "Show me the most beautiful woman, i'll tell you who is tired of shagging her". Lol... This is my opinion

@Martin- A man does not need alcohol, but just being friendly, kind and always there as a friend weakens a lady who has a strong self control. You're a gentleman to keep that control of yourself. I admire u for that. 

Please we should not condemn others, because we can never know what we may become due to whatever may fall on us in the future. :) Good Luck!

Hi Ana,

I think Men cheat when they think out of lust with their 'snakes' and not with their Brains. As for women, they cheat with their emotions, except she is naturally a dog in a human body... Lol

And i also don't think when a woman have kids they don't cheat, sorry they do even more when they want to and keep a better secret. Both men and woman cheat, you choose to or choose not to. To be married does not mean you belong to each other, and our private parts have no meter rating Lol... simply try to keep eachother trousers zipped and don't use the kids as an excuse to cut sexual play off the menu. If we fail to do so, there is always other people out there to help us. :)

But all thesame, so matter how ever we try to keep our partners, what will happen will happen. If you search for a bad story you'll find one. Because we build it, by putting out imaginations into reality.

 They said the 11th commandment says: "Whatever you do, thou shalt not be caught".

I am convinced that the structure of modern society has brought about a change.

Just two generations ago when most of women were depending on their husband to take care of them financially, they were rarely cheating on him.

The men were cheating with the single maid, the single secretary etc.

Today with most women supporting themselves, they care less and cheat more.

Attend any mixed gender sales seminar, kick-off, whatever that goes over more than one day and includes an after hours party and you will be convinced. I have had more drunk and feeling neglected womens hand moving up my leg, than I really care for. And I´m no Hugh Jackman, I´m just there and politely give her a compliment, which her husband hasn´t done in years. Then it´s all "See...why don´t I have a husband like you....you know how to treat a woman.....blah blah blah"

So based on personal observations my theory is this:

Take care of your wife or someone else will.

So yes, women cheat just as much as men, only the reason is another.

We cheat because we are horny bastards. Women cheat because they are unhappy.

Hi Merike,

I agree with you in some points, But what happened to our tools for Fixing things??? Are you in a relationship, married or have kids? Have you 'LOVED'? :)

Centuries ago, is not allowed to be divorced. But now people divorce like they change their clothing which is completely insane. What happened to fixing things? now people throw things away when it nolonger serves them right. Why marry if the person will fall out of feelings? falling out of love i don't believe is possible, if not you've never loved. There is a difference with Love, Lust and unconditional Love. I do not believe in divorcing. Go talk to couples that have been happily married for many many years, 30yrs plus, i'm sure they'll say it's bloody hard, and situations had happened close to cheating, but they recover some how.

Relationship, marriages is never an easy job. To Love is to compromise, sometimes to be selfless, is to give without expecting in return, to be happy. But sometimes we love who does not love us back.

Someone once said to me: You can be married to someone, but the person is not married to you! same goes in a relationship. We only see what we want to see and hear what we want to. They say if something is not broken, don't fix it. And i say, when you see signs, find solutions and prepare tools to fix it.

And if they have kids, they should divorce and purnish the kids for their mess??? Kids need both parents. And i've known couples who sacrifies to stay in an unhappy marriage waiting for the kids to grow older and leave home before divorcing. With kids divorce is such a bad idea, but we can be left with no choice. That doesn't take the pain away either.

So before saying divorce is such a good idea, lets wait to try fix it instead of throwing it away. Love is worth fighting to keep.

Do men cheat more that women? The question is irrelevant and any answer will to lock genders into stereotypes and stereotypes are the shortest way to to a stillstand of the mind. What may be relevant is to know wether your partner is cheating on you and why?

And BTW, I am puzzled by the maths here: If men cheat more than women, with who would that be then?

Are you in a relationship: I have someone in my life who brings the smile on my face and joy to my day!  

married: I am not married, never been married but few times proposed but never said “I do!” Why not, because I will say I do and YES and I LOVE YOU to a man with whom I would like to grow old and grey. I shall marry only once and for good! It is not something to do over the passion; I want to get married with the man who will be there for me and for whom I shall be there no matter what. Every problem will be analysed and fixed. I want that marriage what lot of grandparents had/have. I want to celebrate 30 years and many more years of being married and say to younger ones: ”it is all about listening and keeping your eyes open, it is all about team work!” I want to be that old woman with grey hair walking hand by hand with her husband by the lake, in the forest etc….that old couple you see sometimes in the park holding each other hands….and you feel joy in your heart when you look at them! 

or have kids?

 NO! The man with whom I shall have kids with is the one with whom I will marry!

 Have you 'LOVED'? :)  who haven’t? Question is, what kind of love it was?

Love is worth to keep but cheating is not something to tolerate, if you cheat it means you don’t care about anyone and you don’t know how to value yourself ether!  And first learn to know the person you are with and then make your wedding and kids happen! 

HI Merike. :)

what kind of love it was? The inexplicable kind of Love. The kind that brings sweet tears to your eyes when you talk of/with that one man :)

Wow... wonderful fairytale dream. Don't we all wish that? I wish that for you really. And you're a very lucky lady if that someone doesn't have an expetriate job.

Thanks for you advice. In my next life when i'm 25yrs old  again, i will make sure i know myself to value, ENOUGH before hand. Yes we cheated on eachother, and hated ourselves for it for 9years Unitl now  forgiven ourselves and in contact again. That mess did not change the most beautiful love we shared. Of course to 'cheat' Is not something to be proud of despite the reason.  But we must admit life is not 'Butter and bread'. Everybody makes mistake, espeically when much younger.

I'm a proud happy mother of two adorable kids already and of course single, why? i won't leave the father of my kids/ Ex partner because he had cheated, importantly is to know why he did it! But I did leave him! because he physically abused me in front of our kids. THAT! is NOT tolerable. As an African woman from a culture of men with traditional rights to marry multitude of wives, be you the bread winner or Not. If you're choosen as the only wife, you must Thank God. :) This is my culture. I know where i'm from, where i've been, where i stand now and where i'm going....

Our elders said: "Don't regret what you did, Regret what you didn't do". Because there will be no lesson to learn and value to appreciate.

If someone cheats on someone it means their heart is not there and is never been there! Thats how simple it is! These are my values and these are the values I shall always carry with me.

Everybody faces challenges and as humans there is only somuch we can handle. Even Adam in the Bible failed his God through Eve. So don't underestimate the power of touch. :)

Thank you too. I admire your strong spirit and I wish you all the best for that perfect Values. Have a nice week.

Very interesting post though, me like! :)

I think that the word friendship actually means something to Martin and he honoured that. He didn't crucify his friend. He was true to his friendship with her and actually held both of them to a higher standard by safeguarding her future relationship.

True friends look out for each other. True lovers do the same and avoid betrayal. No one is perfect. We err and then need to forgive ourselves and others. But deliberately choosing to destroy friendship, love, trust, innocence, beauty, all the better parts of our existence as humans? 

Give me a friend like Marin any day.

There are various reasons for adultery, however horrific it may be for the person who is cheated on, we mostly feel the hurt and don't look at the reasons WHY our partner has (or is) cheating on us... often the fault rests with ourselves.

Admittedly there are serial adulterers, and its important to try and spot such an individual before enetering into a relationship with them...leopards seldom change their spots.

In the first paragraph above, I would hestitate in saying adultery is forgivable, unless there is a straight refusal to discuss and overcome the marital / partner problems that lead to such adultery. In which case if you find cant discuss the problems with your partner,and overcome them and the issues he/she might come up with,  and then he/she strays, then you have only yourself to blame.

(Forgivable) lets be honest.mostly men will not forgive if the wife or g.f goes into these picth fisrt and thats the end relationship.women(we) dont forgive purely, we can say i have but............stick to the same man and throw three night stands after our men mess.men wakeup here!.its only that we do it because of our privancy  has been exposed.

Why men are caught--they play games with women they know to the extend of close friend of their wifes/gf.

For women is the opp.strangers for a night is possible.and its hard to notice!no phone calls!no text msg---------------olol.

Adultery is a fact, and the injury ot damage to the ego is often worse than the infidelity itself ot its underlying factors. Being with the same person for 50+ years can be a real challenge for the libido! But don't get me wrong: I am not advocating  adultery in any way. I'm just saying that it happens (According to Wikipedia, studies suggest around 30–40% of unmarried relationships and 18–20% of marriages are marked by at least one incident of sexual infidelity), and it does not necessarily mean that that the couple has failed. Isn't Love about understandig and forgiving, rather than condemn?

so...only 40% or less of kids then in todays society ??? 

30-40% of unmarried relationships??? wow thats a low figure...

Most people "dating" will probably stray elsewhere once the current "date" becomes unbearable/untenable .

it is still  technically "Infidelity" ...if there is a shag outside the partnership, up  until the point one of the two breaks up the current relationship.

YES of course!!!

Good post. I sincerely hope that your dreams come true. May you find such a partner.

Thank you for your insights on WRS and sound guidance. Intimacy is what we all seek in relationships be those close or less close because within these it enables us to be ourselves as much as possible and invariably be authentic which is what most people I'd suggest crave.

I think what hurts most people in affairs is the cheating, lying, deceit and all that goes with it. The cheater deceives themself and therefore transgresses their own integrity and even if at a conscious level they justify their acts, unconsciously they know it is wrong - so suffering sets in. As for the cheated when they find out they will feel betrayal, bemusement, hurt inadequacy, and now the cheater is feeling guild and may leverage that in time to hit back at the cheated in accusation. In all of that you get a situation where victim and victimizer are changing roles as they try to work their way through the situation.

For my part I have read extensively on polyamoury as an expanded model for relationships.  It is interesting to note that those who have undertaken this seek to uphold the values of any relationship which is based on honesty, communication, connection trust and respect. One might think that an open relationship transgresses all these things but it does not if it preserves the values of the original relationship.  It’s important to separate these from possessiveness, jealousy control – often things which we are confronted with in adultery (my point being it’s not necessarily the affair that is what hurts).   It is also important to note that a cheater often acts from a place of ego and anger at least not initially but it’s important to be clear on that front.  It is important to separate Love from sexuality. 

Polyamoury is not farfetched insofar as it may answer the DNA conundrum.  One very good book that explores this is Opening up http://openingup.net which delves into why couples opened up their relationships (not the same as having an affair which is based on deceit) in enabling them to fulfill their wider needs - which an affair could never do on the same terms ie preserve the integrity of the primary relationship.  Such an arrangement can be sporadic, but if done maturely and with care and understanding can potentially enable the main relationship to progress and in many cases become exclusive again.

It is my observation that is has become a feature of modern society for people to become increasingly attentive one’s individual.  This is acceptable within certain boundaries but not if it is at the price of others, and where individuality turns into narcissism is unhealthy for society as a whole, as it will invariably taint future generations.   The book your refer to on the liquid life seems to suggest that we skim at the surface of life and so no doubt favour sense pleasures so short terms gains (pleasure) over long terms ones. Websites which promote adultery are not in my view healthy as changing partners for another does not change “us” - and these sites simply encourage changing others – literally by swapping mates rather than working on themselves - because on the surface seems easier. There would be some denial here and clearly a lack of understanding of our deeper needs, but do were really give ourselves the time to look more closely at these to understanding them? 

Would it be too much to suggest that modern relationship by in large an extension of our egos, mirroring how we perceive ourselves socially – “the done thing”?  But what is the intention with which we enter relationship?  Isn’t  a relationship is a unique place for personal growth which many may seem to overlook as they busily surf the web in search of new oceans?  Are we operating on a quite superficial arrangement (“contract” of marriage for instance) and when the opportunity for growth really comes we simply bale.  Or we avoid that opportunity and simply maintain an adulterous affair?  So what moral code do we operate by today?  Are we in a world where we simply defer to a laisser faire attitude based on the way the winds of social acceptability are blowing at any point in time – such as these adulterous websites?  I think these completely miss the point and are tantamount to inducement for making money and impoverishing the already meager moral fiber of us all.  It preys on people’s vulnerability of not knowing themselves and now serves as a tacit form of social acceptability.  And if one wishes to add some Karma into the equation, what happens when a person meet their new hum hum “beloved” on one of these sites, wouldn’t they wonder whether it can happen again ie do two adulterers make a match made in heaven or hell?   

I touch the surface because this is a vast subject but with all situations in life we have to look at ourselves first, and determine how we wish to show up in the world and how we wish to be treated and so treat others in that same way.  If we do not learn what we have to learn the first time around then the lessen will just keep coming back in a different from and now with these website the lesson can at least be accelerated, and we can in time evolve beyond basic instincts. 

Cheers... you've just cured my insomnia :-)

No relation...but I hear what you;re saying

Dad maybe...but not brother

wow    a double cure for my insomnia...thanks

But I think the question remains, "Donald, where's his trooo-sers!" :-)

Ah David. so you are calling me a dildo then?  

this caught my eye  -; Getting back at someone,or to achieve 
                                                          more attention,so it's ok-

ain't ok, it's harmful.

if an affair isn't harmful, maybe it's o k...

@Blessing R, you are right everyone should look on to his/her own shelves.

Depending on age an maturity there are (irresistible) pulsions on both side man and woman. No one seemed to have noted that "Cougar" women do exist as much as "Predator" men, just to give a boost to this interesting thread. 

Where thers a will theres a way :)