Maybe people should stop taking it so personal. I don't think anybody with no Swiss passport in Switzerland even has the right to preach their opinion on Swiss political propaganda! I myself am a Nordic person,and should as a foreigner also just let it be.My Swiss friends will tell me what they think. Anyways,this is small stuff. The black sheep poster is a smack in the face,but it's also satire. Come on expats,get real.
Tobias
Global Forums > General > Dont take it personal.
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Dont take it personal.
Sep 13, 2007 @ 18:25
The text you are quoting:
Maybe people should stop taking it so personal. I don't think anybody with no Swiss passport in Switzerland even has the right to preach their opinion on Swiss political propaganda! I myself am a Nordic person,and should as a foreigner also just let it be.My Swiss friends will tell me what they think. Anyways,this is small stuff. The black sheep poster is a smack in the face,but it's also satire. Come on expats,get real.
Tobias
Tobbe82Sep 13, 2007 @ 18:25
Tobias
Tobbe82Sep 13, 2007 @ 18:25
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 1
Sep 13, 2007 @ 18:52
I cannot agree with you that we foreigners have no right to comment on the Swiss politics – it’s a part of our integration, isn’t it? Would it be better if we have no opinion and no interest in it?
By the way, most of the people in this forum are rather contributors to Swiss economy, rather than the black sheep, aren’t they?
By the way, most of the people in this forum are rather contributors to Swiss economy, rather than the black sheep, aren’t they?
The text you are quoting:
I cannot agree with you that we foreigners have no right to comment on the Swiss politics – it’s a part of our integration, isn’t it? Would it be better if we have no opinion and no interest in it?
By the way, most of the people in this forum are rather contributors to Swiss economy, rather than the black sheep, aren’t they?
Kaixin, Sep 13, 2007 @ 18:52
By the way, most of the people in this forum are rather contributors to Swiss economy, rather than the black sheep, aren’t they?
Kaixin, Sep 13, 2007 @ 18:52
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 2
Sep 13, 2007 @ 19:50
And yet you write a message directed and targeted at the people you just told not to take personal!
You my friend have added 2 and 2 together and come up with 5, but please don't take this personally!
You my friend have added 2 and 2 together and come up with 5, but please don't take this personally!
The text you are quoting:
And yet you write a message directed and targeted at the people you just told not to take personal!
You my friend have added 2 and 2 together and come up with 5, but please don't take this personally!
DJ_Symcard, Sep 13, 2007 @ 19:50
You my friend have added 2 and 2 together and come up with 5, but please don't take this personally!
DJ_Symcard, Sep 13, 2007 @ 19:50
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 3
Sep 13, 2007 @ 19:52
...has that stopped anyone from commenting about politics in any other part of the world. I'm sure many of us are strongly opinionated about current U.S. politics. Got a view on the political situation in Africa? Russia? How about the Mid-East?
The text you are quoting:
...has that stopped anyone from commenting about politics in any other part of the world. I'm sure many of us are strongly opinionated about current U.S. politics. Got a view on the political situation in Africa? Russia? How about the Mid-East?
Rasta, Sep 13, 2007 @ 19:52
Rasta, Sep 13, 2007 @ 19:52
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 4
Sep 13, 2007 @ 19:53
It's "just a poster" until one examines the UDC agenda.
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It's "just a poster" until one examines the UDC agenda.
Rasta, Sep 13, 2007 @ 19:53
Rasta, Sep 13, 2007 @ 19:53
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 5
Sep 14, 2007 @ 01:35
personally, I find it offensive - both the advert and the fact that you imply that I have no right to a voice in Switzerland without a Swiss passport. As a human, I feel I not only have a right to voice an opinion but a moral obligation to speak out for what I feel is right. Passport of whatever country I happen to hold. What have passports got to do with dictating opinions? They don't define people. Even if they can have the power to limit their electoral influence. I pay taxes here and support an economy and contribute to a culture. Limitations in right to vote are one thing, but holding and voicing an opinion don't go hand in hand with a piece of paper.
The text you are quoting:
personally, I find it offensive - both the advert and the fact that you imply that I have no right to a voice in Switzerland without a Swiss passport. As a human, I feel I not only have a right to voice an opinion but a moral obligation to speak out for what I feel is right. Passport of whatever country I happen to hold. What have passports got to do with dictating opinions? They don't define people. Even if they can have the power to limit their electoral influence. I pay taxes here and support an economy and contribute to a culture. Limitations in right to vote are one thing, but holding and voicing an opinion don't go hand in hand with a piece of paper.
SimSim, Sep 14, 2007 @ 01:35
SimSim, Sep 14, 2007 @ 01:35
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 6
Sep 14, 2007 @ 02:11
Hear hear!!! (nt)
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 7
Sep 14, 2007 @ 11:48
I will go on discussing about politics, social issues, culture, etc. in Switzerland, Sweden, Iran, USA, China, Israel, Indonesia, Belgium.... regardless my nationality and my country of residence.
Debate can only be positive and the contribution that people coming from different realities can bring into it can only enrich the debate itself giving it a wider and more thorough perspective.
Swiss people will decide later, with their vote, but they will have had the opportunity of better knowing and understanding the whole picture of what they are deciding about.
I'm Italian. I answered exactly in the same way to the (mostly Italian) jerks that said that "The Economist" should not criticize Berlusconi because it is not an Italian Magazine. :(((
Debate can only be positive and the contribution that people coming from different realities can bring into it can only enrich the debate itself giving it a wider and more thorough perspective.
Swiss people will decide later, with their vote, but they will have had the opportunity of better knowing and understanding the whole picture of what they are deciding about.
I'm Italian. I answered exactly in the same way to the (mostly Italian) jerks that said that "The Economist" should not criticize Berlusconi because it is not an Italian Magazine. :(((
The text you are quoting:
I will go on discussing about politics, social issues, culture, etc. in Switzerland, Sweden, Iran, USA, China, Israel, Indonesia, Belgium.... regardless my nationality and my country of residence.
Debate can only be positive and the contribution that people coming from different realities can bring into it can only enrich the debate itself giving it a wider and more thorough perspective.
Swiss people will decide later, with their vote, but they will have had the opportunity of better knowing and understanding the whole picture of what they are deciding about.
I'm Italian. I answered exactly in the same way to the (mostly Italian) jerks that said that "The Economist" should not criticize Berlusconi because it is not an Italian Magazine. :(((
Stef__Granny, Sep 14, 2007 @ 11:48
Debate can only be positive and the contribution that people coming from different realities can bring into it can only enrich the debate itself giving it a wider and more thorough perspective.
Swiss people will decide later, with their vote, but they will have had the opportunity of better knowing and understanding the whole picture of what they are deciding about.
I'm Italian. I answered exactly in the same way to the (mostly Italian) jerks that said that "The Economist" should not criticize Berlusconi because it is not an Italian Magazine. :(((
Stef__Granny, Sep 14, 2007 @ 11:48
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 8
Sep 14, 2007 @ 12:02
up
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 9
Sep 24, 2007 @ 15:47
Just a comment here. Everyone keeps saying "I pay taxes here, therefore I should vote here."
Only employed people are citizens????????????
A vote is the "privilege" of anyone who buys and sells Swiss products and services????
What about university students (whether Suisse or foreign)? They shouldnt vote?
What about fathers and mothers who are caring for children at home? No vote?
How about the millions of retired people, not to mention volonteers?
Does that mean a country is a corporation and each of us are shareholders and the more shares you own, the more power you have?
Democracy (a form of government)should not be confused with capitalism (a form of economy).
I am in favor of all RESIDENTS in a country voting but they must be responsible for their choices and the consequences.
'Nuf said.
Only employed people are citizens????????????
A vote is the "privilege" of anyone who buys and sells Swiss products and services????
What about university students (whether Suisse or foreign)? They shouldnt vote?
What about fathers and mothers who are caring for children at home? No vote?
How about the millions of retired people, not to mention volonteers?
Does that mean a country is a corporation and each of us are shareholders and the more shares you own, the more power you have?
Democracy (a form of government)should not be confused with capitalism (a form of economy).
I am in favor of all RESIDENTS in a country voting but they must be responsible for their choices and the consequences.
'Nuf said.
The text you are quoting:
Just a comment here. Everyone keeps saying "I pay taxes here, therefore I should vote here."
Only employed people are citizens????????????
A vote is the "privilege" of anyone who buys and sells Swiss products and services????
What about university students (whether Suisse or foreign)? They shouldnt vote?
What about fathers and mothers who are caring for children at home? No vote?
How about the millions of retired people, not to mention volonteers?
Does that mean a country is a corporation and each of us are shareholders and the more shares you own, the more power you have?
Democracy (a form of government)should not be confused with capitalism (a form of economy).
I am in favor of all RESIDENTS in a country voting but they must be responsible for their choices and the consequences.
'Nuf said.
MarmarK, Sep 24, 2007 @ 15:47
Only employed people are citizens????????????
A vote is the "privilege" of anyone who buys and sells Swiss products and services????
What about university students (whether Suisse or foreign)? They shouldnt vote?
What about fathers and mothers who are caring for children at home? No vote?
How about the millions of retired people, not to mention volonteers?
Does that mean a country is a corporation and each of us are shareholders and the more shares you own, the more power you have?
Democracy (a form of government)should not be confused with capitalism (a form of economy).
I am in favor of all RESIDENTS in a country voting but they must be responsible for their choices and the consequences.
'Nuf said.
MarmarK, Sep 24, 2007 @ 15:47
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 10
Sep 24, 2007 @ 16:48
A lot of people work in Geneva and don’t even pay taxes. They contribute a lot to the world and to Geneva. Yet they don’t pay taxes in Geneva, because they work for the UN or Red Cross or WHO. So here we have a group of people who are probably better informed of human rights and world events than the rest of us, and according to the "I pay my right to vote" principle, they could not vote.
Also, a lot of French people work in Geneva and are taxed at source but they live in France. Should they really vote on Suisse legislation????? That's an open question, by the way. I dont know how they feel about it but am curious to know.
Also, a lot of French people work in Geneva and are taxed at source but they live in France. Should they really vote on Suisse legislation????? That's an open question, by the way. I dont know how they feel about it but am curious to know.
The text you are quoting:
A lot of people work in Geneva and don’t even pay taxes. They contribute a lot to the world and to Geneva. Yet they don’t pay taxes in Geneva, because they work for the UN or Red Cross or WHO. So here we have a group of people who are probably better informed of human rights and world events than the rest of us, and according to the "I pay my right to vote" principle, they could not vote.
Also, a lot of French people work in Geneva and are taxed at source but they live in France. Should they really vote on Suisse legislation????? That's an open question, by the way. I dont know how they feel about it but am curious to know.
MarmarK, Sep 24, 2007 @ 16:48
Also, a lot of French people work in Geneva and are taxed at source but they live in France. Should they really vote on Suisse legislation????? That's an open question, by the way. I dont know how they feel about it but am curious to know.
MarmarK, Sep 24, 2007 @ 16:48
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 11
Sep 24, 2007 @ 18:21
I live in France and pay tax on my property there, but pay income tax in Geneva like a lot of Fronteliers, also my children go to school in Geneva , also until recently I paid taxes in the UK . So where should I have a vote? Who is representing my views on pensions (in switzerland) my views on infrastructure (in france) .. Confused of Global Village
The text you are quoting:
I live in France and pay tax on my property there, but pay income tax in Geneva like a lot of Fronteliers, also my children go to school in Geneva , also until recently I paid taxes in the UK . So where should I have a vote? Who is representing my views on pensions (in switzerland) my views on infrastructure (in france) .. Confused of Global Village
britabroad, Sep 24, 2007 @ 18:21
britabroad, Sep 24, 2007 @ 18:21
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 12
Sep 24, 2007 @ 19:11
that's the only thing it deserves bdw :)
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 13
Sep 24, 2007 @ 19:45
Nah... there is better
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 14
Sep 24, 2007 @ 19:46
Mr Bean for president!
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 15
Sep 24, 2007 @ 21:25
Amel
Vote for Ali Benouari
Vote for Ali Benouari
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 16
Sep 24, 2007 @ 21:32
minister.
Amel
Vote For Ali Benouari
Amel
Vote For Ali Benouari
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 17
Sep 24, 2007 @ 21:36
Vote for Ali Benouari and do not worry.
Amel
Amel
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 18
Sep 25, 2007 @ 01:16
? - up?
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 19
Sep 25, 2007 @ 17:29
ifornia don't you think? :-) Concerning Beckham Actually I think it could be a good idea. She is pretty good to manage money and his husband. :-)
Amel
Vote for Ali Benouari
Amel
Vote for Ali Benouari
The text you are quoting:
ifornia don't you think? :-) Concerning Beckham Actually I think it could be a good idea. She is pretty good to manage money and his husband. :-)
Amel
Vote for Ali Benouari
Amel, Sep 25, 2007 @ 17:29
Amel
Vote for Ali Benouari
Amel, Sep 25, 2007 @ 17:29
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 20
Sep 25, 2007 @ 17:48
ok Arnie IS Arnold from California.
The text you are quoting:
ok Arnie IS Arnold from California.
Amel, Sep 25, 2007 @ 17:48
Amel, Sep 25, 2007 @ 17:48
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Re: Dont take it personal.
Post 21
Sep 26, 2007 @ 09:05
Must we mind our own business? or, should we voice our thoughts?
This thread already weaves some interesting arguments.
I doubt logic driven arguments can satisfactorily address this issue. Logic alone is rarely a useful guide to right and wrong. Logic never provides meaning.
History tells us that logic can misguide us. It was logic that made the Supreme Court of America make one of the biggest mistakes in its history - that blacks had no rights that a white man was bound to respect, and affirming that the black man can be lawfully reduced to and kept in slavery. Soon thereafter, America was torn by civil war.
So, must we mind our own business? or, should we express our thoughts and ideas and feelings?
We should express our thoughts and ideas and feelings. We should do that, no matter whether we pay social security and other taxes.
Why must we speak out? One guide to this issue is human history. After all, we live in a world today whose laws and political systems have evolved from ideas migrating, across the world, over the centuries. We owe it to the future generations, to continue learning from each other - and make the best decisions we can. Learning from each other would be impossible if we hide, or remain silent, or give up on dreaming a better, more just and happier world.
I am not convinced that we should remain silent to the adoption of unjust laws or political themes. Why assume that others do not want to hear us? Why live in fear that our ideas and opinions do not matter?
Why not assume that ideas and opinions do matter? Why not assume hope is that foundation that can give love a chance over hate and hostility? Why not assume communities around us want us to participate in the melting of ideas? Why not assume that the future is an undiscovered and more beautiful world that demands us to learn from each other and give the best that is within us?
Speaking out does not mean that we are forcing our opinion, or hijacking the free vote or will of a community. Speaking out is simply a way to offer our experience, our perspective, our ideas. Whether someone just hears you out, or whether they listen to you - is their personal decision. And even if they listen to you, what they do with those ideas is something for them to decide. If certain ideas were not considered and those ideas were right, sooner or later the seeds of better ideas will germinate.
So speak out because folks like me want to hear you. I want to listen to you. I want to learn from you. I want to know and reflect and ponder and experience what you think, how you feel. Speak because you are important to me.
This thread already weaves some interesting arguments.
I doubt logic driven arguments can satisfactorily address this issue. Logic alone is rarely a useful guide to right and wrong. Logic never provides meaning.
History tells us that logic can misguide us. It was logic that made the Supreme Court of America make one of the biggest mistakes in its history - that blacks had no rights that a white man was bound to respect, and affirming that the black man can be lawfully reduced to and kept in slavery. Soon thereafter, America was torn by civil war.
So, must we mind our own business? or, should we express our thoughts and ideas and feelings?
We should express our thoughts and ideas and feelings. We should do that, no matter whether we pay social security and other taxes.
Why must we speak out? One guide to this issue is human history. After all, we live in a world today whose laws and political systems have evolved from ideas migrating, across the world, over the centuries. We owe it to the future generations, to continue learning from each other - and make the best decisions we can. Learning from each other would be impossible if we hide, or remain silent, or give up on dreaming a better, more just and happier world.
I am not convinced that we should remain silent to the adoption of unjust laws or political themes. Why assume that others do not want to hear us? Why live in fear that our ideas and opinions do not matter?
Why not assume that ideas and opinions do matter? Why not assume hope is that foundation that can give love a chance over hate and hostility? Why not assume communities around us want us to participate in the melting of ideas? Why not assume that the future is an undiscovered and more beautiful world that demands us to learn from each other and give the best that is within us?
Speaking out does not mean that we are forcing our opinion, or hijacking the free vote or will of a community. Speaking out is simply a way to offer our experience, our perspective, our ideas. Whether someone just hears you out, or whether they listen to you - is their personal decision. And even if they listen to you, what they do with those ideas is something for them to decide. If certain ideas were not considered and those ideas were right, sooner or later the seeds of better ideas will germinate.
So speak out because folks like me want to hear you. I want to listen to you. I want to learn from you. I want to know and reflect and ponder and experience what you think, how you feel. Speak because you are important to me.
The text you are quoting:
Must we mind our own business? or, should we voice our thoughts?
This thread already weaves some interesting arguments.
I doubt logic driven arguments can satisfactorily address this issue. Logic alone is rarely a useful guide to right and wrong. Logic never provides meaning.
History tells us that logic can misguide us. It was logic that made the Supreme Court of America make one of the biggest mistakes in its history - that blacks had no rights that a white man was bound to respect, and affirming that the black man can be lawfully reduced to and kept in slavery. Soon thereafter, America was torn by civil war.
So, must we mind our own business? or, should we express our thoughts and ideas and feelings?
We should express our thoughts and ideas and feelings. We should do that, no matter whether we pay social security and other taxes.
Why must we speak out? One guide to this issue is human history. After all, we live in a world today whose laws and political systems have evolved from ideas migrating, across the world, over the centuries. We owe it to the future generations, to continue learning from each other - and make the best decisions we can. Learning from each other would be impossible if we hide, or remain silent, or give up on dreaming a better, more just and happier world.
I am not convinced that we should remain silent to the adoption of unjust laws or political themes. Why assume that others do not want to hear us? Why live in fear that our ideas and opinions do not matter?
Why not assume that ideas and opinions do matter? Why not assume hope is that foundation that can give love a chance over hate and hostility? Why not assume communities around us want us to participate in the melting of ideas? Why not assume that the future is an undiscovered and more beautiful world that demands us to learn from each other and give the best that is within us?
Speaking out does not mean that we are forcing our opinion, or hijacking the free vote or will of a community. Speaking out is simply a way to offer our experience, our perspective, our ideas. Whether someone just hears you out, or whether they listen to you - is their personal decision. And even if they listen to you, what they do with those ideas is something for them to decide. If certain ideas were not considered and those ideas were right, sooner or later the seeds of better ideas will germinate.
So speak out because folks like me want to hear you. I want to listen to you. I want to learn from you. I want to know and reflect and ponder and experience what you think, how you feel. Speak because you are important to me.
colorado, Sep 26, 2007 @ 09:05
This thread already weaves some interesting arguments.
I doubt logic driven arguments can satisfactorily address this issue. Logic alone is rarely a useful guide to right and wrong. Logic never provides meaning.
History tells us that logic can misguide us. It was logic that made the Supreme Court of America make one of the biggest mistakes in its history - that blacks had no rights that a white man was bound to respect, and affirming that the black man can be lawfully reduced to and kept in slavery. Soon thereafter, America was torn by civil war.
So, must we mind our own business? or, should we express our thoughts and ideas and feelings?
We should express our thoughts and ideas and feelings. We should do that, no matter whether we pay social security and other taxes.
Why must we speak out? One guide to this issue is human history. After all, we live in a world today whose laws and political systems have evolved from ideas migrating, across the world, over the centuries. We owe it to the future generations, to continue learning from each other - and make the best decisions we can. Learning from each other would be impossible if we hide, or remain silent, or give up on dreaming a better, more just and happier world.
I am not convinced that we should remain silent to the adoption of unjust laws or political themes. Why assume that others do not want to hear us? Why live in fear that our ideas and opinions do not matter?
Why not assume that ideas and opinions do matter? Why not assume hope is that foundation that can give love a chance over hate and hostility? Why not assume communities around us want us to participate in the melting of ideas? Why not assume that the future is an undiscovered and more beautiful world that demands us to learn from each other and give the best that is within us?
Speaking out does not mean that we are forcing our opinion, or hijacking the free vote or will of a community. Speaking out is simply a way to offer our experience, our perspective, our ideas. Whether someone just hears you out, or whether they listen to you - is their personal decision. And even if they listen to you, what they do with those ideas is something for them to decide. If certain ideas were not considered and those ideas were right, sooner or later the seeds of better ideas will germinate.
So speak out because folks like me want to hear you. I want to listen to you. I want to learn from you. I want to know and reflect and ponder and experience what you think, how you feel. Speak because you are important to me.
colorado, Sep 26, 2007 @ 09:05
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