This is what I published last June - not about political change but how social networks could be used to force change.

"Anybody following social media or for that matter the news knows that last Monday, the 31st of May, amongst other thing was Quit Facebook Day (http://www.quitfacebookday.com/). While the level of sucess of the Day is somewhat questionable. According to the website, the result was that 36176 declared they would be “Committed Facebook Quitters”, however did this really provoke a social change?

I believe it did. It didn’t really damage Facebook and the number of  users they lost, will probably be replaced in a short time, however the online demonstration made international news and made the owners of Facebook really sit up and take notice of the privacy issues the users were complaining about.

So 36176 member of Facebook decided to take action and hit the world news, so what could 20,000,000 do? This is the number of xxx members. If, as a group, those members unified in there actions online, the real question is: What couldn’t they do?

Systems like Facebook, love them or hate them, are presenting a way for socio-political groups showing unity in a very public way. 20,000,000 is over twice the population of Switzerland and so is a sizeable voice. Social Networks allow for groups to show how manyreal supporters they have, and it doesn’t stop there.

Had the number of Facebook user’s who stated they were going to quit Facebook been 20,000,000 it still wouldn’t have closed the Social Media giant as there are supposedly 400 million current accounts… But remember this is social networking, and here the beauty of the system. It’s not just your friends and members that get the message, done correctly their friends, family and collegues as well. According to Facebook the  “Average user has 130 friends”. Ok so let’s multiply the ammount of connections that 1 message made by 20,000,000 users by 130 “friends” and that 1 message could reach 2,600,000,000 people if one in 6  people in that number had clicked “quit”  it would have closed the Media giant in one fell swoop.

There are a alot of “if’s” and “buts” in there, however you get the idea. Had the number of “Committed Facebook Quitters” been even 20,000,000 Facebook wouldn’t be saying that they are taking notice, looking into it, or a any other phrase that could be called a platitude but rather they would have at least been giving timescales and making some serious changes very quickly.

Getting away from facebook, what if 20,000,000 x 130 decided they were going to close there HSBC or Santander accounts because of a employee rights campaign, delivered by social networking, what would happen?"

This was a piece I wrote for an job application in a Swiss based organisation.

When Tunisa & Egypt used Facebook & Twitter I was only surprised at where in the world this had really happened first.

Chris:"..force change.."

Change, sounds like President "Oblowme"- nisms.... Central planning doesnt really work with social networks, but communist can and will try of course.

This was a piece I wrote for an job application in a Swiss based organisation.

an NGO no doubt, but I like dabbling in numbers just like the next guy,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nGdNtU9VHw

95% Support fundamental islam in politics
84% Support the death penalty
82% Support stoning to death for adultary
77% Support cutting off hands for stealing
50% support Hamas
30% support Hezbollah
20% support A Qaeda (16 Million people)

@Jacob: Please if you are not from Egypt and you didn't live there before don't publish any statistics without making sure.....

I am from Egypt. I lived there for 24 years. My friends are there in the El-Tahrer Square and they don't follow Muslims Brotherhood.

The Total revolution came from the youth, through a Facebook Group.

We are all Egyptions and we want to build a good country for us.

BTW don't belive any one put some stuff on youtube.If you want to know the news clearly ask Egyptians and don't follow the Egyptian Government because there were lairs !!!! and they never say that they are wrong !!!!!.

BTW I don't support muslims btotherhood and I hate them.

Hisham

Hisham:don't publish any statistics without making sure.....

Funny how you NOT say if the statistics are false or not.

Hisham:My friends are there in the El-Tahrer Square and they don't follow Muslims Brotherhood.

So your the 5% of people who do not  want Egypt law based on Islamic shaira law? (not expecting an answer on this one)

Hisham:We are all Egyptions and we want to build a good country for us

I am not a nationalist, sorry, I believe to much in freedom and not in some other form of collectivism,  but if  that is your perticular poisen, then I hope all your dreams come true.

being from Egypt  and having lived there does not necessarily mean that one knows everything about Egypt ! One person's word does not count either!

if  you dont recognise the dangeour and fight with it, it will come and get you!!! denying the power and followers of Muslim Brotherhood is WRONG! 

@Fraz: No I know everything there and this is the opinion of all people participated in this revolution. I have many friends there now and I know what I say :).

This revollution is totally from the youth not from collectivism, it is started through a Facebook group :).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/08/wael-ghonim-tahrir-square?intcmp=239

If you don't

BTW when the revolution started on the 25 Jan, Muslims brotherhood didn't participate because they were afraid from the government :).

When they found people insist on their opinion, they started to participate.

The first participation for them was in the 30 of Jan...

So it is totally from the youth and my friends their who participated in the revolution don't follow them.

That is all !!!

Muslims brotherhood didn't participate because they were afraid from the government :).

From behind your keyboard you can know what the muslim botherhood does? feels? think?  aka "they are fraid"

 Botherhood may be a lot of things, being afraid is not one of them.

Norway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f1P-d3gFEk&feature=player_embedded#at=475

France:

http://www.france24.com/en/20110210-multiculturalism-failed-immigration-sarkozy-live-broadcast-tf1-france-public-questions

United Kingdom

]:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhYus6TiGEE&feature=player_embedded#at=55

Singapore

http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/qed/2011/01/on-muslim-integration

@Jacob: I told you what happened in Egypt :). You want to belive it its ok if you don't want and you want to insist on your opinion it is OK also!!!

Yes they were afraid from the government, because when anything happen  in Egypt the government give the blame to the muslims brothehood.

Again, This is what happened in Egypt. It is totally from the youth. People who were in the street don't support muslims brotherhood. I know a lot of people there. People with different religious were there !!!!!!!. .

If you don't want to belive do whatever you want I don't care !!!!

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=125188

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/08/wael-ghonim-tahrir-square?intcmp=239

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/10/world/middleeast/10youth.html?ref=global-home

Regards

Hisham

Well from behind your keyboard you seem to think you always know the answer and are always correct.

Are you aware that almost every post you make on the threads on Glocals has an unpleasant undertone?

How would you know about how all Muslims feel? Do you know all of them?

Colette,  lets stay on topic

Misham is making a statement about the brotherhood being "afraid", where is the evidence?

The presented statistics speak for themselves, unless the research was botched up,(of course this is a possibility) but no evidence to this is presented.

Also the CNN broadcast was also quite clear about the common man on the street 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMFwrpXqUyk

This is not one single interview with a single person, this is what the crowd is chanting,

You don't have any knowledge really!!!.....

Wearing a veil or letting your beard doesn't mean at all that they are following the muslims brotherhood......

http://www.juancole.com/2011/02/christians-muslims-one-hand-in-egypts-youth-revolution.html

This is all what I can say, which proves that all people were ther.

I am sorry I will not waste my time with you again.

The topic of the thread is-- "Egypt: Articles on Young People, Technology and Social Networks"

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/02/egypts-revolutionary-fire

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/02/ghonim-ready-to-die/

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/02/ghonim-release-reports/

From that article:

"Egyptian authorities broke their silence on Ghonim’s whereabouts over the weekend, telling family members and friends he’d be released Monday. Until then it had been widely assumed that Ghonim was in Egyptian custody.

Last week, Google issued a plea for information on its missing employee, who was in Cairo for a conference. The company on Monday declined to elaborate beyond its Tweet.

In addition to being the top Google marketing executive in the Middle East, Ghonim is an internet activist who had been critical of Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak in the days leading up to the violence that has paralyzed Egypt.

Ghonim hadn’t been heard from since January 27th, the night before protesters held what they called a “Day of Rage” filled with violent clashes between police and protesters.

Since his disappearance, Ghonim has become a symbol to internet activists who have struggled to overcome internet and cell-phone blackouts, which have accompanied widespread media repression, including violent attacks against journalists that have left at least one reporter dead.

Ghonim, described by The Journal as a father of two who is in his 30s, is thought to be the anonymous activist who created the Facebook page that first called for the Jan. 25 protest that sparked the uprising, according to The New York Times.

Ghonim has also been a volunteer for the pro-democracy campaign of Mohammed ElBaradei, the former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, who has returned to Egypt to oppose Mubarak."

Finally, your obsession with the President of the United States performing a sexual act on you may express a particular desire of yours but is unrelated to the topic at hand.

I dont know what you are trying to do, but it is not what they wear, but what the shout in the crowd,...,  death to Israel, and "we hate Mubarrak because he is a friend of Israel"

This was the same thing that got Anwar Saddat assasinated!

As the Queen of Scotland, I would like to propose  2 x Knighthoods. 

Firstly to  to Translator for the following quote : Finally, your obsession with the President of the United States performing a sexual act on you may express a particular desire of yours but is unrelated to the topic at hand.

and to Colette D for the following quote: 

Well from behind your keyboard you seem to think you always know the answer and are always correct?
Are you aware that almost every post you make on the threads on Glocals has an unpleasant undertone?

Its all to easy to "thank poster" - One prefers Knighthoods Oneself.  

Happy Weekend Peoples and hopefully next week is a better week in this broken world that we have created and we can all play together nicely..... :-)

http://www.counterpunch.org/bernstein02072011.html

An excerpt from: An Interview with Egyptian Blogger "Sandmonkey"

More Than a Facebook Revolution

"To call the ongoing people's revolts in Tunisia and Egypt FaceBook revolutions is certainly overstating the case.

In both countries, the time was ripe for revolution and social upheaval. Poverty, repression and hopelessness were enforced by greedy U.S.-supported despots who were deaf to the needs of their people.

But there is little doubt that the recent street-protest revolts in Tunis and Cairo were assisted by new social media: Facebookers, tweeters and a new generation of Internet bloggers..

In Egypt, the blogosphere has been on fire with young activists planning meetings, sharing information, planning actions and sending emergency messages about government attacks.

Mahmoud Salem, known in the blogosphere, as "Sandmonkey," is among the most famous and savvy young Egyptian bloggers, now working at the edges of Liberation Square.

Sandmonkey, who describes himself as "a pro-democracy, free-speech, women's rights activist," has been blogging since 2004. His blog is now read around the world and has become part of an alternative information flow, carrying the message from the street to the 24-hour-a-day rush hour on the information super-highway".

Conventional media vs New and social media

http://www.counterpunch.org/georgy02032011.html

An excerpt from:Obscuring the Obvious;The Egyptian Uprising in the American Media By JOSHUA FAROUK GEORGY

It has been one week since the Egyptian revolt began, and the mainstream American media has wheeled out many of their standard, self-appointed “experts” to illuminate matters. They attempt to solve the riddle of what could possibly have driven the thoughtless throngs into the proverbial “Arab streets,” while providing their set of contrived scenarios about how things might develop. Even as our “experts” set about to demystify what they themselves have mystified, they are quick to turn to what really matters – the effects these events will have on the United States and our allies. There really are two fields of discussion here. The first deals with a fantastical world of wild imagery, a world where monsters wait in the shadows with plans to lead a retreat from civilization (or worse?), and where heedless masses may unknowingly (or knowingly?) stampede into their arms. This is an encrypted world that must be decoded with the help of experts trained to make sense of the senseless. And the second field is a very rational one – American interests in the region.

http://www.counterpunch.org/kampmark01282011.html

An excerpt from:

By BINOY KAMPMARK

"The prophets of social media are getting excited.  Not only can such forms of media as Twitter and Facebook often prove to be banal time wasters, they can also generate revolutionary excitement.  Communities connected by messages instantaneously gather to promote their demands on political change.  Tribes of cyber connected groups gather to post messages and terrify officials".

I agree that coming from a country does not make one an expert on the country.  I'm sure there are plenty of non-Canadian people who have studied Canada, who know more about Canada than I do - but then that's also a question of what one deems 'important' and 'knowledge'.  I also agree because I argued with Jacob B about his knowledge of the Hirshi Ali affair.  I stated (in Dutch) that I too speak Dutch (having learned it in Belgium) and followed Dutch news so that just because he grew up there didn't make him an expert on all things Dutch and that his interpretation of the Ali affair was biased (i.e. wrong) in my opinion based on reports in Dutch print and TV media.

And now we have you and "one person's word" warning of the danger of the Muslim Brotherhood, without a single argument or quote or reference to back it up.  A pot calling a kettle black.

As for the Brotherhod, the secular Nasser cooperated with them at times to counter the communists in Egypt and Britain has regularly colluded with them and other fundamental Islamist groups in their own sellfish short term interests (see Mark Curtis' Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Affairs-Britains-Collusion-Radical/dp/1846687632/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1297486022&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=mark+curtis

I should add that it is not whether one is an outsider or insider that gives one a particularyly useful (superior?) viewpoint.  Insiders are often subject to the brainwashing of their corporate media and the educational system.  Outside experts often don't even speak the language of the area over which they are so called experts.  Edward Said pointed this out about so-called Orientalists from the US and Britain who didn't speak Arabic and were more engaged in ideology than discovery (see 'Covering Islam: How the Media and the Experts Determine How We See the Rest of the World' http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=mark+curtis#/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_0_29?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=covering+islam+by+edward+said&sprefix=covering+islam+by+edward+said&rh=n%3A283155%2Ck%3Acovering+islam+by+edward+said

It's not of a question of who is saying what but rather what they are saying; is it fact based and logical and consistent?

Interesting views of the mixed Irish Egyptian, Coptic psychiatrist Sally Moore (and I thought I was a mongrel medic!) on her admiration for the MB and opinion they will only garner 10% of the vote.  Granted, only one person's  opinion - and that of an Egyptian - not necessarily almightily knowledgeable about things Egyptian, but interesting all the same in contrast to those who fear the devious sneaky shenanigans of the MB.  Such fears of the MB and its modus operandi and eventual rule over the whole world (my words based on comments I see here, e.g. Farz b, and at the Canadian Broadcast Corporation website - cbc.ca) reminds me of the Red Scares of McCarthyism and even before him by the liberal class (see for example Chris Hedges on the death of the liberal class http://grittv.org/2010/11/13/chris-hedges-the-death-of-the-liberal-class/, where there was a red under every bed. This was also the case in totalitarian communists regimes like Stalin's where people were afraid to speak and others informed on them - both cases of 'whispering' as told in the excellent book of Orland Figes 'The Whisperers http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_28?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the+whisperers+orlando+figes&sprefix=the+whisperers+orlando+figes but I've gone off on a tangent which is my wont and what I want to do - so I better stop  here.

Karl Marx (for Jacob B's pleasure!)

You found ONE word or is it two in everything Chris wrote! Bravo! You highlight 'force' with no further explanation.  And 'change' is something I can agree with you on (see the very beginning of this video with a clip showing Obama's doublespeak on single payer healthcare (http://grittv.org/2010/11/13/chris-hedges-the-death-of-the-liberal-class/) and wherein Hedges castigates the liberals for giving up on ideals I think you have expressed support for: respect for civil liberties, promotion of individualism etc.

As for your ad hominemistic take on Obama, I prefer Obummer!

Groucho Marks

Tom Trento! You must be kidding.  A quote attributed to a veterinarian! Powerful stuff! (Must check that Jerusalem Post article for the full context). And I love the juxtaposition of veterinarian with a picture of Arafat next to a dog - Begin did call the palestinians four legged beasts for a reason I guess!).

Here's what a US Jewish organisation has to say about Trento and his ilk: http://www.jewsonfirst.org/08a/obsession.html and their link to Trento's organisation http://www.floridasecuritycouncil.org/. Interesting comments form Jews about Trento in light of his proclaiming to be pro-Israel.

"Wild and wacky Egypt": it keeps getting better.  I wonder how often Florida Security Council member Trento has been to wacky Egypt and how well his knowledge of Arabic is - care to inform us?

There is a tem for the likes of Trento and others who cherry pick, cut and paste,

 take out of context and come up with truisms: Idiot Realist.Listening to him is as nauseatingas reading Mein Kampf.

Indeed Jacob lets stay on topic which is about Egypt, young people, technology and social networks! I.e how modern technology has assisted in bringing about the downfall of Mubarak and his regime.

It was you that chose to go off topic by posting your You Tube propaganda about the difficulties of integration!

The subjects are not remotely linked!

Trento says "fundamental role" while PowerPoint says "fundamental Islam"

Why should Hisham have to validate (or not) your statistics garnered from Trento and not from Pew most likely.  Another example of Trento cherry picking.

Here's the Pew Poll: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1874/egypt-protests-democracy-islam-influence-politics-islamic-extremism

And it says: 

"A 59%-majority of Muslims in Egypt believed that democracy was preferable to any other kind of government. About one-in-five (22%), however, said that in some circumstances, a non-democratic government could be preferable, and another 16% said it did not matter what kind of government is in place for a person in their situation".

"Egyptians were split on how big a role Islam played in the political life of their country. Among Muslims in Egypt, 48% said Islam played a large role in their nation's political life while a nearly equal 49% said it played only a small role". That's "played" not 'should play' - subtle distinction like the 'fundamental Islam mentioned earlier.

"Among Egyptian Muslims who did see a struggle, a 59%-majority sided with the fundamentalists. Just 27% of those who saw such struggle sided with the modernizers". That is 59% siding with them in the struggle and not necessarily supporting their whole political agenda - another subtle overlooked distinctions as reinforced further by the following.  "

"Concerns about Islamic extremism -- both in their country and around the world -- were widespread in Egypt. About six-in-ten Egyptians were very (20%) or somewhat (41%) concerned about the rise of Islamic extremism in their country".

Your's and Trento's truths are stranger than fiction.

Goucho Marksist Inc. (corporations have better rights than civilians so I've incorporated myself!)

Confession: I went of topic too but just one more please!

"95% of 80 million Egyptians"..  Actually that's 95% of those surveyed (subject to all sorts of biases in sampling as are all polls and how the question is posed e.g. ask Americans if the government should help the poor and infirma majority say yes; ask if they support 'welfare' most say no!).

16 million Egyptians support as-Quaeda (see 95% of 80 million above).

Egypt under the MB will with its tremendous stock of arms will take over the world. Good luck against the US with greater military spending than all others combined, plus that of Britain, France, Israel etc. with all their nukes (Egypt has no nukes).

Iranian nuclear weapons program.  Contradicted by the National Intelligence Estimate of the US, http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf and former IAEA chief El Baridei.

Whether it's Social Media or New Media there is potential to discover truths and also to distort them. Trento's and JacoBbin's truths (sic and sicker) are stranger than fiction.  Long live the New Media - tweet, tweet!

ok i am just here to bring the news item i read this morning on

www.haaretz.com

The swiss government freezes Mubarak´s assets following resignation

The estimate assets are 40 billion dollars.

The question is will they give it to the people ?

like fly airplanes over egypt and drop the money by bags or will they keep it

for them till they come over

I just hope they wont freeze them the way they froze the holocaust money

I heard the philippine people are still waiting for the check

yes, social networks are fun and all but at the end the money goes to the sponsers..

i have not followed this thread for various reasons mainly because my place

is amongst the french movie thread which is nonviolent however

i thought i would bring this tibit in,

ok wolves, ready steady GO  

Your article and discussion would be better placed under the other current Egypt thread. The young people and those who used social networks and new technologies didn't seem to be using them for fun, but for freedom and participation in their future.

@I.e how modern technology has assisted in bringing about the downfall of Mubarak and his regime.

There have been many revolutions in history all of them without facebook. What drives people is economic hardship, the famous "..If they dont have bread why dont they eat cake..." line is all telling, and region right now is worse then Greece. Mubarak has been a dictator for many years, and a lot of people were kindof ok with  that until,...,they go hungry.

Again, what the man "in the street thinks" is recorded on video, you may not like the evidence, but i dont think the CNN journalist "got lucky" and just happened to find an extreemist crowd chanting "death to israel, death to mubarak".

@It was you that chose to go off topic by posting your You Tube propaganda about the difficulties of integration!

Well, I think this is all part of a bigger picture, so I took a step back and looked at the map of Europe, I see all these fires(literally)  over Europe (my links pertained to different counntries). Now it is your good right to disagree with this conclusion, and entertain  the idea that  this is all a coincidence. But your are right , we are going off tangent with this one.

@Marxist:

Iranian nuclear weapons program.  Contradicted by the National Intelligence Estimate of the  US,http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf and former IAEA chief El Baridei.

Again off tangent, but Iran DOES have a working nuclear breeder, and El Baridei is backed publicly by the muslim brotherhood http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10224274  and is persoanlly on record saying "the brotherhood is not an extreemist organisation".. (Oooops)

--

@Marksits:"...Trento's and JacoBbin's truths (sic and sicker) are stranger than fiction..."

You are on record as the first one in this thread hurling personal insults again, ..Admin has been notified.

In addition, describing forum participants who may disagree with you as "wolves" does not further the discussion in a positive or civil manner.

I thought that remark of poster star was a little "tungue in cheek" , so Translator,...,we Dutch say "you dont have to put salt on every snail". Chill...

As we Americans say..

You can cut the sexual tension between you two with a knife =)

Don't kill me val.  =)

Marxist :Last week, Google issued a plea for information on its missing employee, who was in Cairo for a conference. The company on Monday declined to elaborate beyond its Tweet.

Google as a coorperation doesnt really care to affiliate itself with political activism, I think this is a classic textbook ("agent theory") example of upper management not knowing what he did untill it was to late. 

@Lexillent

Between "Star" and "Translator", you know something I dont?  LOL

Lexi:

Please endeavor to stay on topic or I will have to put salt on you, too.

Sorry, I some how failed to see the humor or relevance of her comments.  But I did think it funny you alluding to her as a snail...

tssk tssk, Backhanded comments:

-1

The first one to hurl insults?

 "sounds like President "Oblowme"- nisms" Jacob B

"an NGO no doubt" Jacob B

To refer to truisms as sick is an interpretation of the mean spirited, distorted 'facts' (sic) and not an insult unless one's skin is so thin.

Then you go on to say: "

Between "Star" and "Translator", you know something I dont?  LOL"

Despite the NIE and El Baredei you claim the Iranians have a nuclear weapons program.  Please let the NIE and El Baradei know of your 'fact's gleaned from your intelligence sources.

Claims are not proof!

Yawn!

True, perhaps, but fair enough, given her previous statements.  Now, back on topic please.

No, in this one case, he was correct.  I am, however, so many "points" ahead (as if this were a contest), I don't mind conceding one. I am nothing if not a good sport.  Back on topic please. 

Marxist:"sounds like President "Oblowme"- nisms" Jacob B

You take Insulting president Obama (calling him Oblowme) personal? We are kind of stretching it arent we?

Marxist: "...Trento's and JacoBbin's truths (sic and sicker)..."

Strike 1

Marixts   ".. To refer to truisms(his statement about me and Trento) as sick .."

Strike 2

Admin has again been notified!

 Calling Jacob and me sick is the truth and 

"Oblow-me" is not a personal attack on me.  Please quote me where I take it personally.

"Calling Jacob and me is the truth and" (?). I called the comments '(truisms') sick and not you. As for the the other Jacob!?: Who is the other Jacob?

Glad you notified the administtator - better to be talked about than not talked about to paraphrase Wilde.  Perhaps when you notify the administrator you can refer to the obvious temporal appearance of the personal insults.  But surely it wil be obvious if he starts at the top and scrolls down.

i was going to take a walk in the sun

but well sheep in wolves skin, wolves in sheep skins whatever...

i find the level of discussion here shows a lot of pent up hostility

fortunately i dont subscribe to Freudian theories too much

To  defend dictators like the president of Iran so sure there is no evidence

of nucelar weapon and since he has proven himself as such a nice guy

lets give him the benefit of the doubt or ...

lets give him the honor he so much does not deserve

well all i can say is that if anyone thought that this is an innocent love parade 

supported by peace loving swiss well check out the figures

40 billion dollars when Mubarak checks out

the lowest hanging fruit , to quote a friend from the world of business

easy peasy, just say, well, the poor suffering masses then grab the cash

leave it in your bank and say, we are waiting for the people of egypt to come claim it

of course it is good that Mubarak does not get it but who is to say

the Egyptian people will get the money?

Philippine dictator left a lot of cash in switzerland too and no one came to

claim it

maybe facebook will come to claim it

As for a certain shadey character who sent me a link about jews using the holocaust to make a profit

i would say it is a pure psychological PROJECTION

As it is well known the jews have been accused of seeking money

from greedy people, seeking violence from violent people etc etc

I think that just because someone claims to be of jewish heritage does

not give him the right to bad mouth Israel , jews or anyone who does

not think the Iranian president is an innocent lamb

His psychotic statements denying the holocaust amongst other things

leave not much doubt in any sane person´s mind as to how reliable

he is as a partner

if the swiss want to shake hands with him fine

just dont call what is happening in egypt the people rebelling

they have no plan , they have no money, they have no idea what they

are doing

i have kids to force out of the house to the sun

and i suggest other people leave the dark chambers of their hostile minds

and seek some sunshine and love and peace 

Marxist:".."Oblow-me" is not a personal attack on me.  Please quote me where I take it personally..."

You are the one bringing it up as a counter argument where you claim it as a personal attack (nr 1 on your bullited list). Please try and "remember" your own rebuttel, or re-read if you forget.

Marxist"..I called the comments '(truisms') sick and not you..."

to funny, nice backpaddle,..,

Again please quote me where I claim to take it personally.  Claims (yours) are not proof.

No back paddling: I refererd quite clearly to the 'truisms' being sick and not you nor Trenton.  Claims are not proof.  Ask a lawyer if in doubt.

Swiss freezing his bank account is not smart

Many foreign people have Swiss assets, I think they will relocate now) 

Ad nauseum and ad absurdum.  And don't forget to coordinate with your lawyer to prove my slander and the submit your intelligence source gleaned evidence to the NIE.

Yawn!

@Jacob: Youuu also have been reported to the admin long time ago congratulationssssssssss man

Even if you have memory problems you can still reread, seems I have to do your homework:

your quote Marxist:"..Again please quote me where I claim to take it personally. .."

To easy:

Marxist quote:"..The first one to hurl insults?...(Marxist quotes me here as example)"sounds like President "Oblowme"- nisms"..."

So YOU post it as an example of one of my "insults". Followed by a lot of page bendin post denying that you regard it as an insult.

So how is the backpaddle race going?

Marxist: "..And don't forget to coordinate with your lawyer to prove my slander and the submit your intelligence source gleaned evidence to the NIE.."

Again backhanded comments: -1.

Marxist:Yawn!

Maybe staying awake would have made you see things clearly

Trying not to be "off tangent" (jacob B) whatever that might mean:

"The much-feted Mossad was taken by surprise," wrote Uri Avnery. The CIA was too, although US lawmakers are trying to determine "whether the CIA and other spy agencies failed to give President Obama adequate warning of the unfolding crisis in Egypt" (as reported by Greg Miller in the Washington Post, February 4). Senator Dianne Feinstein who heads the Intelligence Committee, accused the intelligence community of 'lacking" performance. The CIA should have monitored Facebook more closely, she suggested.

But there can be no telling when a nation revolts. Most of the chanting multitudes have no Facebook accounts. They don't tweet either. In Tahrir Square, a man with a moustache, dark skin and handsome features carried a cardboard sign on which he had written, rather hurriedly: "I want to eat. My monthly salary is 267 (Egyptian) pounds – approx $45 – and I have four children." http://counterpunch.org/baroud02112011.html

And speaking of tangents, loving math and geometry and being reasonably good at math (in my humble biased subjective opinion) you don't even intersect at any point of the circle of discussion.

Quite awake and sentient! Yawn is an expression of boredom (but willing to listen and accept your right to express your deeply held strong opinions and not report you to the administrator as I defended your rights to him previously and regretted his cutting off the previous thread about what happens in Egypt...) with your claims (lacking convinvcing evidence based ratiional i.e. realistic, and logical arguments). Yawn ad infinitum with your tantrums.

And I did agree with your remark about Chris' claims to advancement in education and your commitment to civil liberties and individualissm - or didn't you notice?).

Marxist:And speaking of tangents, loving math and geometry and being reasonably good at math (in my humble biased subjective opinion)

I have an advanced degree in physics,...,  mathematicians (the professional ones) generally speaking do have a problem with experimental verification of their models (aka= "realitycheck"),..it stops them being so "creative".

@I want to eat. My monthly salary is 267 (Egyptian) pounds – approx $45 – and I have four children.Marxist:

If you doubled his salary he would say something like 

@I want to eat. My monthly salary is 534 (Egyptian) pounds – approx $90 – and I have eight children.

Maxist:".. with your claims (lacking convinvcing evidence based ratiional)

Dear marxist, I litterally quoted your backhanded statements and later your denial making those backhanded statements. Now you will post again something like "I dont know what you mean, please repost"  starting it all over again, LOL, meanwhile using every one of your post to call other opinions "vile" and "sick".

Less emotion Marxist, more reason, and respect others opinion more. Nobody has a huge ego problem, nobody is needs to brag how good they are at a math hobby. totally irrelevant and off topic,...,

Now back to facebook!

@jacob: i don't know exactly what do you want. first you started to say that the youth didn't do it and then you started to talk about USA and Israel........

What do you want ?

the keywords of this topic are Youth, social nhdwork and there affect on Egypt 

so please don't move to other things and don't build your opinion based on Youtube Videos. It is not good for you !!!!

Folks - this thread seems to have lost any connection it once had to a topic and become a 'he said / she said' waste of time.

If you have something to add on the original subject, please do so without refering to other members, their opinions or their previous posts.

Oded

This is an answer to a previous post but it is on Topic!

@Jacob your quite right it was an NGO - But that's not a bad thing, I already do some work for an NGO and they are recognised consultants to the UN.It had nothing to do with religion but I would also agree in this case it had to do with socialism. It was as a Social media manager for a workers rights organisation.

If it makes you feel any better I was rejected, due to previously running my own company, and not previously having worked in workers rights, basically I am openly a capitalist.

But Socialism isn't always communism. I would define this company as being in favour of Social democracy - i.e. integrating ideas of ethics with capitalism - I am a capitalist which doesn't mean bad person. It is possible to combine both, Switzerland is an example of this. Switzerland is without doubt Capitalist.
Switzerland rather than having a minimum wage actually uses collective bargaining (Collective labour agreements) to set rates of pay for job types, is that wrong? because essentially that is social democracy at work.

You can read more here: http://www.ch.ch/private/00054/00055/00543/00544/index.html?lang=en

The NGO organisation in question promotes that idea.

Facebook and Twitter are Capitalist ventures, almost all of our best information sources are both NGO's and Capitalist.

The fact that Facebook & Twitter keeps there sponsorship money is not a problem, why shouldn't they? They provide a platform, what the people do with it is then is up to them. 

Extremes are rarely a good thing, the middle ground should be the aim.Including extreme beliefs or politics.

And yes sometimes you have to force change, not with violence but with capitalism and votes. Yes I understand that 297+ people died during the Egyptian protests but that is not a direct part of this Facebook/Twitter question so lets leave that for another debate, such as "the moral and legal responsibilities of websites"

At the time I applied for the job one of the major campaigns was trying to get a USA worker his job back. He had been fired for discussing workers rights - The employees was honored the week before at a gala event for being a top producing seller and had worked for the company for 20 years.

I would hate to see anybody get fired over talking. He was not shouting,publicly protesting or damaging the business. If this became acceptable business practice this could include what someone posts on the Internet, such as this forum. Fortunately this is not the case except in extreme circumstances, i.e the person commits libel that reflects badly on the company.

The state governor has written to the company in question regarding its actions and was considering legal action - This was in part due the promotion of the issue by the NGO by all means, including Social networking.

So where does Facebook and Twitter come in?

I can think quickly of 3 areas: 

1. Informing large amounts of people quickly worldwide in a non censored manner through social networking.

2. Judging public support - Facebook can be use a way of creating a petition, something very normal in UK politics, in fact the UK government themselves run online petitions on varied subjects. However Facebook allows people to spread the word, in a non governmental censored way, via their social network and highlight a "cause" to others in their social network. This is called "Viral advertising" - The success of Hotmail is a often quoted case of "Viral Advertising" they used the tag-line of "Sent using Hotmail" at the bottom of messages, "Viral Advertising" is nothing to do with Viruses.

3. As a tool to organise.
However this doesn't mean that Facebook or Twitter caused the revolution or should be credited with it's "success", (and we have yet to see if it is a success) they were merely tools, such as traditional means like pamphlets or radio advertising.

Where Facebook and Twitter differ from traditional means is that they are worldwide and open to everyone with an Internet connection.

As for central planning, if you mean government, no, I agree due to the difficultly with identification, it can't be run from the Internet but some Swiss cantons are testing e-voting:http://www.ch.ch/ebuku/parlament/00008/index.html?glossarid=18&lang=en

Sorry I didn't really cover force change. What I mean is that when an organisation is directly abusing power, either for example as a company, political party or religious group, Social networking gives the common man the opportunity to publically gain support in a visable way.

They can then apply pressure by their organised numbers. 

Not violent capitalist means would be for example: that the public stop spending with a company if they refuse to stop exploiting staff. This however is a last resort as damiging the company is not desirable either. Normally, just the same as strike action, this is when talks have failed or are completely rejected.

Voting I think speaks for itself.

Socially networking has merely given people a new way to express themselves. It doesn't just give a voice to the downtrodden either, it is an open platform, and Governmental groups use it: http://twitter.com/directgov

The downside is once again the identity issue, I also found this twitter feed: http://twitter.com/UKGOV, I don't know if this one is real or a clever deception.

And of course everybodys favorite subject "Obama" has an immensely popular feed: http://twitter.com/barackobama he is also very popular on facebook.

However regardless of all this the most popular feed on Twitter is this http://twitter.com/ladygaga which I think really says it all regarding what people really are interested in. In fact most of the top 100 Twitter feeds are from celebs see here: http://twitaholic.com/top100/followers/

So if you want to run a good online campaign follow the example of Lady Gaga and Brittiany Spears. Its at times like this I wish I believed in a god, so I could at least say: May god have mercy on our souls...

Thank you Hisham for your note..

But you cant blame people who have no idea about egypt but that it has pyramids, they might not even know they are more than 3. 

I was in the demonstrations in egypt and proud to say that the educated youth were an example of modernity and elegance and honorable devotion.

Egyptians are simple life loving people, the cafes and the beaches and long party nights have driven all the arabs to hollywood of the middleeast.

Being religious and family oriented brought the people together and thats why the revolution was a union of all parties, poor and rich and religious or athiest, christians and muslims who grew up together..but you cant explain that to whoever has one single source of info..the mirror :S

Other than that i am glad switzerland froze the accounts of the dictator :)

Chris: @Jacob your quite right it was an NGO

the Liberal train of throught is dead easy to predict, but I think we should take heed of "siteAdmin Oded" instructions of not going of tangents with page-pending post of the "blessings of communism" , lets stay on track, ..agreed Chris? You can start a seperate  thread on that if you want, I might join you.

--

LATEST Egyption JOKE:

Mubarrak (in some future when he is dead) enters the gates of heaven, sees his former counterparts "Nasser" en Saddar. So the after some greetings and what not the discussion ends up on how they were dislodged from power,

Nassar said "I got a heart attack", Sadat said "I was shot",..,

Mubarrak says "facebook"

LOOL! 

typos, Sadder= Saddat

@Jacob :

Egypt is for Egyptians !!!!!!!

If you want to say a good word, we apprecia it. If not please ZIP IT.

Whatever there, we are Egyptians we love each other  and we can buikd perfect country for us.

And we dont accept people who are adicted to Youtube and build there idea based on it.

you tell them Brother

but on that note does that mean

kind of fails to explain why we foreigners happen to be hanging around here

i  totally agree about youtube, it´s been done to the very death

Chalas and   

salaam alekum

however we should accept help in spelling ...

totally in agreement about youtube-

salaam

I mean with my words is not to get into our internal affairs and contradict our life without knowledge and without having no idea; like Jacobe who build his thinking based on some youtube videos.

The internal affairs of Egypt can be managed and controlled by Egyptians

Other than that you are welcome.......

Hope is always a good thing, the youtube is a form of social media, the door swing both ways, but that is also reality not exception

Switzerland for the Swiss? well, they call it Switzerland for a reason, can I say "Egypt for the Sudanese" .....that sounds to weird, but the point is  made)))))

Egypt for all people who love egypt <3

come on  people.. where the story begins.. :)

and we are very foreigners-friendly ..although it seems a weird word cuz i dont understand why a person would be aggressive against a person he or she doesnt know :S sounds kinda childish to me to react others lol

So to egyptians..congratulations for a new free country

To all non egyptians..pay the beach and the desert a visit.. its quite an experience.

OK Political content aside and staying with the topic...

Jacob is right... not the in the choices of videos he posted, but when he posted "youtube is a form of social media, the door swing both ways"

This is the other side to Social Media - It's open to all... it's a discussion, a dialogue, a debate and a free for all - its the latest in free speech.

Unless they break the rules of the host site, people can and do use it to be the opposition, or to spread negative information, or to provide a different point of view.

While almost all good media is NGO it is however screened and regulated by responsible professionals, I don't mean they are always responsible people but rather their company, the producers and the reporter actually have some level of legal responsibilty. Basically they should check their facts before adding their names - sometime they get it wrong and legally have to print, publish or broadcast retractions - Social media sites don't have to do that. 

Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, this forum and the other social media tools are regulated by the users, in the case of Glocals we have the "! Report to Admin" button. This means that sometimes media, movements and reports that we don't like get posted. All you can do is "! Report to Admin" and hope that the Admin takes equal offense to the Media.

And of course private websites (these are social media as well)... as there is no official body, and there won't be for long time due to its world wide nature, and differing laws (if any) on content hosted by private indivduals and there is always a way to get around things, such as host in another country that doesn't care.

Now heres the good news, the thing about freedom of speech is that all the nutters stop hiding, they spout their bile. The hard work is then to confront those unpleasant opinions, not with aggression but positive truth, and Social Media gives us all the tools to do that.

Just because somebody says something negative doesn't mean they are wrong. Some of these unpleasant opinions will also be founded in truth, so some of the time you will hear thing you don't like, such as the world doesn't agree with a countrys policies, and Social Media can inform you of that. The really hard part is then to hold the mirror up to yourselves recognise the opinion is based in fact and attempt to change. Hosni Mubarak failed to do that and looked what happened - he lost a country and 40 Billion Dollars (so far).

So you may not agree with everything posted on a forum, but shouting "back off" won't get you anywhere - Social Media can tell you what fears people have and at the same time give you all the information you need to address those fears in a polite intelligent manner, whether it is to a person or to a world wide audience.

Sometimes critism is our best friend but only if we listen to it and react to it.

Social Media is a great tool, it can create change, it can help oranise, it can inform and it can create world wide bridges. But it isn't always positive - unless you know how to take negative and turn it into a positive.

Social Media is a reflection of the people using it - The technology isn't perfect and nor are those using it.

The golden rule about Social Media you don't like - report it and don't spread it. And if you don't like it but recognise its correct try to tackle the problem.

As the saying goes:

Give me the strength to accept that what I can not change,
Give me the strength to change that what I can not accept. 

Having said all that Congrats Egypt - It feels like the Berlin wall all over again.
You changed what you could no longer accept. 

Now you have freedom lets see what you do with it, its all yours... mistakes and all. Good luck. as Nermin wrote "where the story begins.. :)"

Arrragh! even so called experts get it wrong I copied the report to admin text and it copied the link! So don't click  it - of course unless you really didn't agree with my post!

Edit button please admin...

Chris: Now heres the good news, the thing about freedom of speech is that all the nutters stop hiding, 

Yup, that is why it is so funny to see people react to facts video-ed on the streets of Egypt they rather wouldnt want to see,..., the news is not made,...,it is captered in its most raw form on mobile phones, handhelds (wich now have HD camera by the way) and optionally near real time broadcasted to the inet,  

Maybe not news you want to admit to, but facts are facts,..., especially if a crowd is caught redhanded on tape, chanting "death to Mubarak, death to Israel". (ooops)

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/16/technology/16internet.html?_r=1&hp

Article from the New York Times titled "Egypt Leaders Found 'Off' Switch for Internet"

From Wired.com, other uses of youtube

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/02/rapper-takes-to-youtube-to-diss-egyptian-dictator/

Chris,

With regard to Social Media I'm tempted to think 'plus ca change...'.  In print media there has been 'letters to the editor sections' where the public could give its views (though subject to editing or being ignored).  One might argue that SM (pun intended) provides more and wider input but then one is also at risk of losing sight of the forest for the trees.  Regarding retractions, these are often anything but and often exercises in 'damage control': http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff06242003.html  NY Times managed to wiggle its way out of the WMD existence articles by Judy Miller whose (public) persuasive (government) spoon fed articles helped shape public opinion on the war in Iraq.  The result is a 'retraction' (sic) and thousand of dead Iraquis, foreign mercenaries, US soldiers and a destroyed land: http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff10242005.html

News, is not the same as truth as Chris Hedges has said and had first hand experience with reporting from Central America during the 80's: http://grittv.org/2010/11/13/chris-hedges-the-death-of-the-liberal-class/

We all know news is made (e.g. the toppling of the Hussein statue, the 'rescue' of Jessica Lynch, the coverup of the death of Pat Tilmann: http://www.counterpunch.org/goff08092007.html) either by large corporate media, social media etc. by the choices made of what to report, how to report etc. Public relations and manufacturing consent is old stuff and in the American context we have the likes of Walter Lippmann, Edward Bernays and others who willingly manufacured news (i.e. lied and/or distorted) for any number of clients: http://metanoia-films.org/index.php

Fortunately there are groups like FAIR and the Glasgow University Media Group and others to keep an eye on 'established' old media but who will keep an eye on New Media or the Social Media?

Let's hope that the changes in Egypt bring greater freedom, better standards of living, retains some semblance of peace in the region and that Egypt is left to Egyptians to determine their future.

I agree that retractions are normally buried and without doubt only there so that the paper is not sued, but regardless that threat of being sued is there - Try to sue Blogger x, or a Youtube member and see how far you get, plus most of the time it doesn't occur to the SM user that this could happen.

I also believe that the traditional media is often biased depanding on their point of view, just like Social Media. Except where Traditional Media has some accountability and more than one persons voice (editor, producers, legal dept.), Social media often comes from one source only and so is more biased again.

You just have to imagine if someone took a video of Skinheads in the UK or a National Front March and declared all British rascists... Even if there were 10,000 supporters at the march and we said the movement had 5x that ammount of support it still wouldn't be even 0.01% of the 61,838,154 people in the UK. 

Sometimes these extremist groups can be localised as well so while you may get some very extreme beliefs even one area you can get a very much more relaxed view elsewhere in the country. There has been a massive difference in voting between the French and German parts of Switzerland, and also between the countryside and the urban areas. 

My point is while you have videos of people shouting violent slogans it doesn't mean that the vast majority believe that it may document that even a large group believe that it doesn't mean that it is a fact that the country wish to go to war.

As for the stats - well I think I covered that above, it all depends where you gather your stats, and yes that goes both ways.

However these videos and those who talk about them inform the interested parties of the fears of the average person not in Egypt and while the governing and future of Egypt should be in the hands of the Egyptians nobody should think that what happens there will have no effect outside.

However we outside Egypt can only wait and watch what happens.

Of course youtube footage, like other kinds of video, can be faked and/or orchestrated.  Here is a ridiculous example, but you get the drift.  Google youtube and fake footage and you will see everything from UFOs and other things... Comes a pale rider...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg6TM_QnoJk

The underlying message is clear, Lol, when the facts dont fit the liberal mindframe it "must be fake",

To funny.

"Today, there’s a flourishing little internet industry claiming that the overthrow of Mubarak came courtesy of US Twitter-Facebook Command, overseen by Head of the Joint Chiefs of Twitter, in the unappetizing, self-promoting form of Jared Cohen, with flanking support by the National Endowment for Democracy and Freedom House.

I’ve no doubt that Cohen, NED and Freedom House are all happy to nod bashful agreement that their efforts were weighty, even crucial, in prompting the Egyptian people to rise up, but the claim is ludicrous.

The New York Times runs endless articles about the role of Twitter and Facebook but now either ignores or reviles Julian Assange and Wikileaks.

In any discussion of the role or the internet in fuelling the upsurges across the Middle East, Wikileaks should be central. Tunisians were able to read the unsparing assessment of the kleptocratic regime oppressing them, courtesy of  US Ambassador Gordon Gray’s cables, secured by Wikileaks. Egyptians were able to read hitherto secret details of the role of Omar Suleiman in renditions, of Egypt’s abject services for the US and Israel.

The New York Times, to whom Assange made available some of his Wikileaks, repaid him (as did The Guardian )  with a vulgar onslaught by the Times’ editor, Bill Keller, essentially endorsing patently factitious  accusations concerning the supposed nature of Assange’s sexual relations with two Swedish women, and also trumpeting the high minded concern of the New York Times with protecting the lives of US personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan".

The Tweet and Revolution: By ALEXANDER COCKBURN http://counterpunch.org/cockburn02182011.html

MSM has vested interests in the status quo (we objectivists call the MSM "the fourth estate" and for good reason). 

The vested interests are that the same government who thy are to supposedly scrutinize is also responsible for their livelyhood,aka journalist still need to get invited to state dinners, press conferences, get personal interviews, etc 

http://mises.org/media/1648