I dont know about BMW but i used to drive a 4x4 back home and its as easy to turn as the 2WD i have here. I guess there is something the guy is not telling you. And if it turns out to be an MOT failure basically you are ******

I am beginning to get really nervous as I am to pick up the car tomorrow - the place seemed really nice though and the sales guy seemed decent too.... But as I paid them 25.000 already and need to pay them the rest (8.000) tomorrow, and already signed the contract I dont really know what to do...

I accepted as the dealer told me the car would have a thorough check and everything that needed change would be changed.... Any ideas on how I stand on this now...?

oh... MOT failure???

Is this an official BMW dealership?

By turning, do you mean turning the steering wheel or turning around a corner? I'm guessing the former... If so, a 4x4 shouldn't be any harder to turn.

Some cars have no steering assistance which can make it harder to turn the steering wheel when stationary. Usually once you're moving, that should not be a problem any more as "roll" slackens the feel of turning the steering wheel.

Some cars have assistance which makes it easier to turn the steering wheel even when stationary. And some have assistance which gradually turns off as the speeds go higher. Some cars (typically the newest ones which try to be "green") even use power saving techniques to turn the steering wheel assistance motor off in certain situations so that less fuel is consumes to keep electrical appliances running (i.e. to keep the alternator engaged etc... etc...).

I think "hard to turn" may be a very judgmental thing. If this is an official BMW dealer, check your new car to see if it's still hard to turn (maybe things were just a little stiff if the car has been sitting around a long time... wheels may also not turn so wheel in hard gravelly ground versus smooth tarmac), and if you still think it's stiff, ask to try another car for comparison. If the other car is much, much smoother to turn, ask to see the "options" list of the vehicle you bought. If there's no mention of steering assistance (remember, it's an option on some cars, even high end German models!), then what you're experiencing should be normal when the vehicle is stationary.

Other things to keep in mind is that the steering assistance only kicks in when you turn the vehicle on. Any showroom car sitting at a dealer will not be powered and thus turning the steering wheel will be very hard work indeed.

If finally you do find that it is absurdly stiff even when rolling, and the other cars at the dealer do not exhibit this issue, tell them outright that this issue was not fixed even though they promised. Ask them to fix it if they want the final 8k or to give you back all of your money.

We have some clause in Switzerland that you can still exit a car purchasing contract within ten days from the moment you said you'd take the car (as long as you did NOT drive the car off the dealers lot). I forgot the exact wording of it, but make sure you're 100% satisfied before you drive the car off the lot.

I am used to driving etc. I had a (male) friend with me who also found it hard to turn (the steering wheel) and it was when driving...  

I will definitely try one of their other cars like this one and if I still find it different I will insist on a STC test or that we go to the nearest BMW dealer to check what is wrong... doesnt that sound like a plan?

Sounds like one.

Asking a BMW dealer may very well be the right thing to do as they oughta know their cars better than a ranbdom third party dealer.

I am buying it from Topcar Zug (topcarzug.ch) which only has Mercedes, BMW, Audi and VW of good quality..... 

Well, the only way to know for sure is to compare the steering feel with a (nearly) identical car. Or to get an expert to double check it.

Since steering feel is difficult to convey via written text, I can only guess at how "difficult" it was to steer this car of yours.

Just keep your fingers crossed, maybe they had to lubricate something, change some fluids, swap some tires around/rotate the tires/realign the tires, etc... There's a number of things which can affect how easy or difficult it can be to turn that steering wheel, and all of them can usually be fixed.

Topcarzug.ch seems like a reputable dealership. I'm sure their technicians will find something and I'm hoping the sales person took proper note of this issue in order to have their technicians verify that it really is nothing to worry about.

Well, thing is, when I talked to the sales person today he told me they checked it, and done something to it, however it was still harder than normal as it was 4x4 drive... and as I wanted to make sure this was right I called my friend who did not confirm that it was so... ergo I am in some doubt now...

I don't ever recall 4x4's being "harder" to turn... it's all a question of how powerful the motor for steering assistance is and how the manufacturer has tweaked it to respond to your hand motion when turning the steering wheel.

So your dealer said they "did something to it". That's a start. Maybe they fixed it and it's a lot less stiff now. Maybe it's still a little stiffer than some other cars, but that could simply be the nature of the vehicle.

You could always hit a BMW forum and ask the question there. There's tons of them. You might still get some answers tonight or by tomorrow morning.

swiss law allows you to return the car within 5 days ( and send a registered letter to this end) also, the garage should offer you a 24 month full guarantee ( covered by an insurance co. at the garages cost)

i used to drive a 4 wheel drive audi A8, it was a total delight. no such thing as 4 wheel drive steering wheel problems etc. he's told you a pack of lies!!!

get your money back asap.

cheers,

roger

I would suggest you trust your instinct on this one... even if the characteristic were as per spec - which I greatly doubt - it is obvious you are uncomfortable with this and it will keep nagging you everytime you will drive the car.  Tomorrow, when you go to the dealership, go there with a friend and tell them honestly how you feel. Remember, you are the customer. 

I wil... only thing is, it is a long trip there as I am in Geneva and the car is in Zug.

I will call a BMW dealer in geneva to have a second opinion first in the morning and then call the dealer I am getting the car from. I will have to go try it again anyway as it might be just fine, it just sounded on the dealer as it was still hard....

Finally, if I still find it hard I will insist on a STC test, or that we go to a BMW dealer in Zug for a second opinion.

As I said above, I have paid them 25.000 out of 33.000 and I am offcourse a little worried about this as I signed the papers already...

Worst part is maybe that I have registered the car today (3 hours spent at l'office d'immatriculation weee), so I am very uncertain as to how I stand in the end - will I have the right to refuse the car now?

I now I am buying a used car, however I planned on buying one not having problems already and the sales person assured me the car would be 100% fine when I was picking it up, however it was offcourse only when I had signed the papers and left the dealer that I was thinking I should have made a remark on the papers.....

You should always have it in writing... that way if they don't fix what they promised, you can show them the text and the signatures as proof!

I know...... NOW....

I still need to pay them the last 8.000 CHF so I hope to be able to talk to them and maybe get out of the deal if needed....

If the steering wheel is hard to turn there is deffinately something wrong with either the Powersteering or with the steering column, you are under no obligation to buy the car if it is not in proper working order. They MUST refund your money if you are not satisfied, if they refuse just tell them that you will ask the police to come and join in on the conversation as you believe they are being dishonest, this wll probably get them to change their tune.

4x4 technology has nothing what so ever to do with how hard the steering would be, 4x4 is the distribution of power from the engine to the drive shafts (the things that make the wheels go round)

2WD - distribution to the front or rear axis

4x4 - distribution to the front and rear axis simultainously

AWD - distribution to each wheel individually

None of these will change how the steering wheel feels when you turn it.

However if the steering wheel is stiff it will probably cost you quite a lot of money to get repaired if you don't have a guarantee on the parts to cover the cost.

The dealer knows this and is trying to fob the car off on you with a pathetic story of "oh it's a 4x4" absolute rubbish.

Remeber you are under no obligation whatsoever to buy this car, and they MUST refund you the money otherwise they are liable for prosecution under the consumer rights acts for knowingly and forcefully selling you faulty goods.

Thanks a lot - I feel a lot better now at least - I will give them a hard time tomorrow.... 

:-)

also remember, if it passed the safety inspection ( usually when you purchased the car )

then there may really be nothing wrong with the steering. but if it went through the inspection only 11 or so months ago, the problem may have developed since then.

anyway, having signed the papers etc, does not take away your rights. as said above, you have 5 working days to cancel your sales contract by registered letter.

regardless if the steering is damaged or not, if it doesn't feel right for you.......cancel.

But those 5 working days, when do they count from?

I signed the contract last weekend, but still has not paid the remaining 8.000 CHF or picked up the car - they had to do the big cleaning etc of the car, so I had arranged to come for the car yesterday or today....

the 5 days start from the moment you signed a contract. It was 10 days back in 2004 when I bought my brand new Mercedes. Maybe this has dropped to 5 days, or it's five days for second hand cars, or it's dependent on the canton... I just know it was 10 days in my case in Vaud.

Nevertheless, the systems put in place do protect the customer pretty well in countries like Switzerland. If you buy from a reputable dealer like this one, and find a fault in the car immediately upon purchase, they'll have to sort it out for you. They also have insurance for situations like this so that they won't necessarily end up having to perform massive repairs on their own dime...

5 work days, which means if you signed on saturday last week the first day is monday, which means you have until monday ( day after tomorrow, based on postal time stamp)

to reply by registered mail. do this, you can always discuss afterwards.

when was the car safety checked? it has to be within the year in order for it to be able to be registered for your number plates!

Well, Bimmer has now been safely placed on the garage. I went there and he let me try a 330 Xi, apparantly BMW is heavier in the steering than what I am used to - my car was maybe a tiny bit heavier than the other.

However, I plan to go do a STC test next week, and in case of the slightest issue I will be on the phone with the dealer.

Epicure: how do I see when it was safety checked??? Obviously I am not an expert in buying cars, have learnt a few pointers though ;-)

it is written on the "grey card" or permis de circulation on the bottom right hand side. it will give the date of the "dernière expertise". this MUST be within one year from the sale date of the car. if not, you will be notified to have it tested at your cost.

I will probably have to get it tested, because that I forgot to check... learning money I will have to pay then :-)