never heard of that. 

But as far as I know, there's no minimum salary in CH. So how can someone accuse anyone of breaking the minumum salary law?

Hi there,

Maybe he or she meant 'below poverty threshold', which is something fixed by the Swiss Federal Office for Statistics.

Check here: http://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/portal/en/index/themen/20/03/blank/key/07/01.html

Hope this helps. Cheers

But there's no law, as far as I know, that says the salary has to be above the poverty line (or any other line)

There is no minimum salary in Switzerland at a federal level, but there is minimum salary in some branches set by the CCT (convention collective de travail). For example, the watch industry the hotel/restaurant industry or the construction industry have minimum salary set by these convention.. So, if you pay someone under the salary set by the CCT, then you could be taken to court.

More infos: http://www.seco.admin.ch/themen/00385/00420/00430/index.html?lang=fr

Hiring someone on the black would be illegal.

But if the other side denounced this, then both would be defined as illegal.

Thanks Alex, makes sense.

Sounds to me like this scam is very weak...

The argument is wether or not it was agreed to be unpaid help for an email campaign (sending emails) in exchange for introducion to potential employers  AND small remuneration. 

Nothing was written down.

For me a friendly exchange of unmunerated help from both sides.

It isnt a big deal even if it goes to court. Just annoying.

It is interesting to read your opinions.

Advise welcome.

OR small numeration

recently there was a referendum in switzerland to legally set a minimum level of income for all people employed in switzerland. the amount was 4'000 sfr per month.

the swiss rejected this! 

what does that tell you? what's your opinion?

So your dispute with the guy has nothing to do with minimum wage or with working illegally, but rather with a disputed over what was agreed. It's not a scam, it's a standard dispute.

The minimum wage discussion was big a year ago, when each side tried to present their preference as the absolute truth. In reality there's no absolute truth here, cos there's both good and bad sides for applying a min wage law: http://www.romeconomics.com/advantages-disadvantages-minimum-wage/

I think it is a "great" method to make money if you have criminal energy - independant on that particular case:

Offer your friendly help to someone who trusts you but who you dont care about, make sure you can prove your activity and then threaten with judge.
He might say that you hired illegally so penalty on top might occur plus all that precious time.

Who wants to see a judge and doesnt agree on a payment of 1500CHF instead? I can imagine many small business will pay instead of using legal resources.

legally speaking you can only get a court judgement to show that thy owe you the money. but try and get them to pay, good luck. the only way is to get the bailiffs to come in and take property and auction it off. it would take about 3 years to go through the system! all that for 1500 sfr. 

Ill let her know :)

I had heard of a cleaning lady who is Swiss and has taken her employers to the cleaners. Basically she asked them not to declare her although they were all willing then when she got caught by the tax authorities denounced them all for not declaring her and now they all have to go to court and pay huge fines. Some of them had employed her for over 10 years. The sense of betrayal they all feel far outweighs the loss of money! So always declare your cleaning lady or man as you never know!

Employment Scam

No, but I just read of an employment scam in which the employee "agreed to be unpaid help for an email campaign (sending emails) in exchange for introducion to potential employers  AND small remuneration. Nothing was written down." by the employer, and the employee accepted in good faith.

The employee trusted the employer but after doing the work, got no introduction to potential employers, no long term employment and no remuneration. 

Sounds like quite a scam. 

Ok, Soul3Soult, I don't know the facts of what happened.

But I am just trying to show that there may be another perspective here that we have not heard. Maybe you are right. But think about it this way. The person DID DO the work for you, right? You did get something out of it, right? Could you, even if out of generosity, remunerate that person for his/her work?

I just don't see how you could call what happened a scam n that person's side. At worst, it seems that the person agreed to do work, did his/her part, you are not claiming that the work was not done, and then that person found that something he/she expected (introduction to potential employers, what does that mean, did you do it?)

The question here is: did he/she derive some benefit from the exchange? If he/she did, and is not trying to pressure you for more, then you have a point. If he/she did not, and you, on the other hand, seem to have gotten a benefit by having had the work done without hiring someone under normal and legal procedures, then that person would have a point in suspecting (even if it was not  your intent) of having been victim of a scam.

If the whole thing was the other person's idea, found out you needed some help and talked you into the deal you described only to entrap you and is going around doing the same to others, you have a point and we are grateful for putting the word out.

If the deal was your idea, and you entered into it to save some money or get extra help and were not clear to the other person about what employers you would introduce him/her to and the chances that they would offer him/her any employment, then, ahem, you may want to rethink your methods. I am sure you are a decent person.

I guess that if there is a lesson here for everyone, regardless of the facts of the case, it is: do everything by the book and above board. If you are engaged in a decent business, make the necessary expenses, pay the necessary remunerations, taxes, whatever. Otherwise, you descend into territory in which you have little to stand on, regardless of who is at fault.

By the way, what was the email campaign about? You are not a spammer, are you?

Sorry, something got cut off:

"I just don't see how you could call what happened a scam on that person's side. At worst, it seems that the person agreed to do work, did his/her part, you are not claiming that the work was not done, and then that person found that something he/she expected (introduction to potential employers, what does that mean, did you do it?) did not materialize."

By the way, what do you mean by "non-swiss person " and how is that relevant? You are not swiss, right?

I am not blaming anyone here. Not even saying that this is 100% a real case. Not disclosing details neither. Seeing now several stories where 1st 2 sides agree on a (eventual illegal) win-win suddenly meet at court.

I am also saying that there is a grey area of what is helping a friend and what is professional work. I guess there are rules but not many of you may know them.

I am saying that this is a model for a scam and I will make sure that if i have cleaning help  etc I will play it all by the rules. 

Hope it serves as a learning lesson for this who dont. Also making sure a work permit exists if non-swiss.

Just saying "be careful and play by the rules" on both sides. Swiss authorities are great for giving you advise when you call by my experience.

If this non Swiss person was your friend how could he/she ask for money? I think a friend would never ask for money if helping a friend and offered to help. Also if my friend i would know if they had a permit so very confused by this forum. 

The real case wasnt about a friend. I am NOT talking about a real case when I describe a scheme as in my 1st post.

Its 2 different things as Id never talk about confidential stuff. Real case simply triggered my idea of how easy it can be ....