If you have an account/card which the bank currently allows you to withdraw a max 600 then thats sufficient.

But I am not sure that taking the receipt would have helped - what if it said 800 on the receipt as well?

The limit was 1000 euros but the Head of the Bank mentioned that the maximum withdrawl in one go is 600 euros which contradicts the fact that they "withdrew" 800 euros.

If I had taken a receipt and it had shown 800 euros, I would have gone straight into the bank. As i was already abroad when I noticed it, it was too late.

The Banker called me yesterday confirming their system show a definite 800 euros withdrawal so I am telling him that this does not answer my question: fair enough, I can understand that this is what their system show but it does not explain the 200 euros difference.  It would be interesting if clients at that bank had checked their bank account statements as I might not be the only one victim of a mistake or an internal/external fraud... Those 200 euros have "vanished" but where? with whom?

I am meeting the banker again this afternoon.  If I loose the money, I will loose it but such a mistake should not happen as it is quite a fair amount of "commission" for such a withdrawal...  Which means I will close my bank account with them, being a client there for the last 20 years... without a single problem on my part.

This is something, you should report to the banking authorities - for them to investigate, whether or not there is a systematic problem with the ATM(s).

Yes I agree with Freney. And also if this happened to me and the bank refused to correct this issue I would go to the police next. Because if they charge you more than they gave you = fraud to my mind. And 600 max in one go is the limit and they charging 800 is a sufficient evidence in my mind as well. And fraud is a criminal offence. So I think you should remind the banker about this if they dont sound like they will give you the money back.

That said, it could be also type of ATM fraud, if some type of device was attached by bandits to the ATM to skim off banknotes and/or card data and PIN-code.

Thank you!

The 600 limit was a definit point I have to remind him about, the possible external device was also an option which I als need to remind the banker... 

To me, it makes sense that there is a mistake or a fraud somewhere but they only seem to try and defend their interest rather than trying to understand how this could have happened (in other words, their accounting department did not report any mistakes so their system cannot make mistake...).

I will let you know the outcome after my appointment.

P.S. yes you are right, my bro (policeman) also advised that I am allowed to go to the Police Station or Gendarmerie and report it.

I hope it goes well. I have to go to the police soon about a similar but different issue.

Ok...

The outcome for today is: the banker showed me the system report on his own computer.  It shows a first attempt to withdraw 900 euros, then a proper withdrawal for a total amount of 800 euros.  All this would have taken ONE minute to accomplish.  Upon reminding him that he had told me that the maximum amount was 600 euros, he then said it is not right and contracdicted what he first said on Tuesday.

I explained that my 800 euros withdrawal attempt had been rejected, so I tried 700 e which was again rejected, 600 e was again rejected, the ATM then accepted 500e.  I then made a 300 e attemps again rejected, another 200e rejected, and it finaly accepted 100 e = total 600e. The banker does not want to see that, he only sees what his systems shows and suggested that that day I was probaly in a hurry, flustered, etc which was not the case as I had approx 6 hours ahead of me before my plane took off... He then suggested I would have forgotten some notes in the ATm (which is impossble because the ATM rejected all of my attemps and this is very clear to me.  The only responsible person would be me... BUT I know I only had those 600e in my purse as I had recounted them all...).

Upon insisting I knew I did not have the money they said the ATM gave me, he said he was going to push the investigation further but he sounded like I was wrong and the bank was right...  I then asked for a written report for my file and mentioned that if I was not going to get my money back, I had been advised to go to the Police.  To that the banker said there was no point and that I would loose the money anyway and that it would be a waste of time for me=meaning: it is lost in advance.  In any case, I told him I wanted a written report and asked him to put himself in my shoes to see how it would feel and what he would do if he had been in the same situation...

Let's wait and see - I won't die if I loose the money but I guess this is important.  I would like to call all Credit Mutuel's clients to check their bank statements for January and maybe the other months.  You never know...!

Probably one of the 2 following will happen:

They don’t want to waste time and give you the 200, but very unlikely as we all would start writing the bank.

Never the less, if that works, please let us know ;)

What they most likely will do, is check the security camera footage. If it`s clearly visible you walked away without counting the money, it`s end of story.

The bank should have an accounting of how much was withdrawn and deposited in the automat that day (in terms of cash). The banker should be able to check this accounting. Otherwise, without receipt, it will probably be difficult to prove anything (if you go and file a claim with the police, it will probably not go very far). It may also take a few hours of your time, just to file the claim.

I don't know much about banks and law but in France there is this association called 60 millions de consommateurs. They are specialzed in defending individuals against big groups/corporations. If this happened already, they will file everyone's story and make it a big deal. They will defend you in exchange you will have to give a small contribution to their association (such as registration fees, max 50 euros).

They were really good when I had a problem with SFR (French mobile phone network).

Good luck.

CTRC Rhône-Alpes

20, rue de Condé, BP 2008,
69227 Lyon Cedex 02
Tél. : 04 78 42 29 76
E-mail : [email protected]
Internet : www.ctrc-rhone-alpes.org

http://www.60millions-mag.com/outils/associations_de_consommateurs

Can they also help with a company that is not French if you are resident in France?

Yes Per P, you are right, the head of the bank did all that, acounting, etc... Although I asked for advice from a family member who works in the Police force and even though I do not have the receipt (I know exactly what steps I followed when I was standing at the ATM), I am still allowed to claim.  The banker's job still has to do a proper investigation which they are not really happy to do.  In any case, even if the bank/banker thinks their system report is right, although they admit there can be mistakes, they still have to investigate. Someone could have tempered with the ATM machine.  That said, it is easier for them just to reply that the system is right and the human being is wrong...

What would you do if this was happening to you? If the ATM showed a BIG RED MESSAGE saying : "AMOUNT TOO HIGH"= this means it won't give you the amount requested, so how can I have forgotten the money or dropped it if the machine first rejected my request? Do you follow me?

Thanks a million Shahinez,

I could not remember the name of that Association, at the time, it used to be called 50 millions de consommateurs (I was much younger at the time :D).  I will contact them.

Despite a lot of people will think that because I do not have the receipt, I would be wrong.  In the deep of myself, I know every little step I had taken in front of that ATM Machine... If this happened to me, I am almost sure it happened to others and most of them might not even be aware of it because they do not check their bank accounts...

I will take it easy as there is no points fighting to a point to be sick but I am in my right.  Let's see what the Association say.

Thanks again!!

I think suggesting that the machine was tampered with so that it gives you 600 instead of 800 is not worth pursuing. How would a criminal gain from that? The money rests with the ATM operators and the bank would have had thousands of complaints.

I check all my statements and have never had a problem with ATMs. On the other hand I have had my credit card double swiped on a couple of occasions and have always been reimbursed.

And sorry to repeat, I always take my receipts except when the paper has run our

I was actually asking for anyone who had experienced the same as me not a lesson.  I clearly stated I did not need a lesson about lack of receipts.  

Thank you for your time and have a good weekend.

I was trying to be diplomatic and also point out the error in thinking that the machine had been tampered with but now I can be more specific.

Unless you hear that many people have been cheated this way, desist. 

If your limit was 600 why did you try for 800 and then 700?  After other attempts rejected maybe your account was overdrawn. It all suggests an element of panic and you pèrobably have no idea how much you withdrew in the end

In short I believe the machine

I suggest you put yourself in the hands of the banker.  If he likes your account maybe he will give you 200 euros but as a present

Have a good weekend

Thank you again for your concern, a few points:

- my personal withdrawal limit is 1000 euros

- I am never overdrawn.

Thank you again for your time. I think it is now time for you to leave the discussion.

Kind regards

An easy search.

A prominent result from April 2012 reads: "ATM fraud in Europe, cash-trapping [on the rise]".

The Credit Mutuel Médiateur (Ombudsman) might be helpful in your case:

https://www.creditmutuel.fr/cmcee/fr/banques/groupe/mediateur.html

Good luck!

Similar incidence happened with me in UK, but in my case the ATM did not give any money when I asked for 500 pounds, and then I tried another ATM and got 500 pounds on the same day. Mine was the international card from India so next day when I checked my bank account the balance was 0 instead of 500. As the withdraw limit of my card was 500 pounds in a day it was quite obvious the first transaction did not happen.  I contacted my bank and they helped me, since it was not the problem with the bank but with the visa machine. They filled a complain on my behalf and I got my money back but it took 45 working days. :)

Also even I did not have the receipt of transaction, but that was not a problem at all.

@marieh this may sound silly, but besides what you have already done, I would go to the same terminal that you went to before, with a video camera and try to withdraw 800 Euro. Do it on a day when you haven't withdrawn anything already. See what happens. Does it reject or allow? If it rejects, then it would appear that the banker's assertion is false.

Also, even though customers can choose to get a receipt or not, the machine itself has internal records, internal receipts.

And as Per said, the internal records should mesh with the actual amount of cash in the machine for that day. Either there was a discrepancy, or there wasn't.

Good luck.

Thank you All,

Ferney L, I will check the link and true, it happens a lot. Andrei, thank you too, the Association "60 millions de consommateurs" has already replied and also suggested this to start with. Swati - I see what you mean although in my case, the bank system has not recorded my attempts, i will explain below

Zonker, I had that same idea but when I try it, i want a friend or at least a witness in case it does not work again. As to the withdrawals, the ATM never gave me those 800e, I had to do 8 attempts, only two worked for 500 and 100, that is the only money I got. so my statement should have shown two withdrawals and not juste one.  Also, their report shows two transactions attemps and i made at least 8 of them and it is not showing. i have been told by someone that the bank does not show everything, that they also have a mistakes report that they should use to report to people higher up to justify.  we, clients, never get to see that obviously... I am awaiting the result of the camera as it must show how long I stood there trying... (not just ONE minute for 8 attempts)

if you file a complaint at the police station, the bank must show all those hidden reports. their machine/System does not show all of my transactions and the only one that shows is wrong... LOL, that is completely weird.  My only guess is either it has been tempered or technology is not perfect and can make mistakes.  Surely, I am not the only who it happened to, but people have to double check their statements, you never know...  i never check because I normally know how much i have left... i don't want this to happen again to me nor to anyone else.

thank you all and enjoy the sunny day :)