Actually i have seen a lot of people helping old ladies. And once someone got up for me!! I was really impressed :)



What annoys me though is that when the bus is crowded there are people sitting in the aisle seats and not going near the window so someone else can sit as well. Whats up with that?
Maria_, May 17, 2009 @ 23:06

Maria:

Someone got up for you?!? You should have slapped him on the spot for thinking you're an old lady! :)

Yea, I know what you mean with the isle seats. When I'm in a real bad mood I make a point of sitting next to those people on purpose. I'm a big guy (and I often sweat!) so it's not a big pleasure to sit next to me...
Nir Ofek, May 17, 2009 @ 23:20

I was so surprised i didnt know what to say. Plus my French are still crap :P



Ok so when i meet you on a bus on a hot summer day i will sit as far from you as possible :P
Maria_, May 17, 2009 @ 23:26

I also have the problem on the train, although I'm not old I have a child and the fact these arrogant business men sit on their butts while I try and manage pisses me off!! They might work some big job during the day but I would love to see how successful they are with a small child all day, then to try and stand with him on a train. Not to mention have them smile at me and say hello...you have got to be kidding me!!
Prin, May 17, 2009 @ 23:32

tough topic. I've been on both sides, the standing and the seating and I have noticed that People are not as polite as I think they should be, but I don't think it has anything to do with Geneva. Is just the way things are nowadays, also, I think it depends on which bus you are taking and where are you going.

I had to take the bus while on crutches and people nicely offered me their seats several times, especially when the bus or tram was not Too packed (funny, since the moment when one needs a seat the most is when the bus is actually really full!!!). I saw people standing up for older men or women, while I noticed that they rarely do for younger moms/au pair, or just generally younger people with loads of shopping bag (try go to manor for food shopping and taking a bus all the way out to vernier with 5 bags .... that trip is the main reason for wanting a car!!!). I have also been the one seating and giving my seat to someone, just to be told off (what do you think? Do I look pregnant or old or fat? ) .... and also the one refusing to give my seat to a woman in her 40ies because the bus was full of people, not of the 'safest' kind, and I had already been harrassed, mugged, you name it, on that same bus before, and the lady in all honesty didn't look that old, or impaired.

This said, I don't think that other cities are much better then Geneva. I was in Paris, on crutches, with both knees covered in bandages, and I had to stand for a 1 h ride. The people simply told me, if you want to seat, take a taxi!!!

My 2 cents, Vale
Hoiling, May 18, 2009 @ 12:31

Hoiling:

The 'if you want to sit, take a taxi line' line is a wild one indeed...I would not know if to launch or to cry if I heard it...(-:

Maybe it's just me getting old, but I really have the feeling the teens of today (when it comes to manners) ain't what we used to be when we were teens...But then again, my parents said exactly the same thing about my generation!
Nir Ofek, May 18, 2009 @ 12:46

[quote]This is just an observation of something that kills me: in GVA, I rarely see people giving up their place on the bus for old people.



Is this your impression as well?[/quote]





I was *just* saying this to a group of friends here! I think it's appalling. I find myself the only person who stands up to let an older person sit down. I haven't experienced any negative reactions. Though I have been politely turned down once, as the person said they were only travelling one stop and were fine to stand.





I do agree with Coreena above that it seems particularly bad with the teenagers. Admittedly, though, as a teenager, my school had uniforms, which meant that if we were discourteous, the general public could call the school and report us ("disrespectful kids on the 771!"). Which may have been a lot of the reason I stood up back then! ;)



lemarquise, May 18, 2009 @ 12:48

[quote]This is just an observation of something that kills me: in GVA, I rarely see people giving up their place on the bus for old people.



I grew up inIsrael, wheregiving up your place in a bus to an old man/woman isthe norm. Back there, most folks would be ashamed to be seen sitting down when an old man is left standing.



In GVA, it's not the case. Sure, some folks do give their places to old people. But many times this is not the case.



Is this your impression as well?[/quote]



Nir , are you worrying you're getting old?! Ah I remember the days when a pound was a pound and you could understand the words those nice young chaps were singing on the wireless...



But yes you are right, the world is going to hell and its all the fault of the Sony Walkman.
hucklewoo, May 18, 2009 @ 13:04

 

I was SO tired and upset that when I hear that line I just answered with a bad gesture, wished to that person to never ever break anything in her life and went to take a taxi.

Not to be devil's advocate, but I don't think the 'manner' problems affetcs only teenagers. On one hand it's true that most of them have horrible manners, but most of my highschool classmates were considered completely unpolite and lacking manners by my parents already 10-15 years ago :). So I can only assume that the % of unpolite teens is still the same or slightly higher, but it looks much worse to me because I know actually notice it (so yer Nir we are getting old!!!).

The one thing I find totally and completely appalling thou is unpolite adults. I have met an incredibily high % of adult (more or less young) with really horrible manners. From arrogant suits, to unpolite shopkeepers, to old ladies being totally rude - while waiting in line at the supermarket, or at the movies (just yesterday a middle age woman snapped nastily at me for eating in the cinema ... ) ..... I find these people even worse then teenagers. They are adults, they do know better then being unpolite, and they should lead by example.

 

V 
Hoiling, May 18, 2009 @ 13:14

I always make sure that if myself and "mini me"are on the tram,she comes to sit on my lap if someone needs a seat.She often asks me in a loud stage whisper..."why do i need to move!",to be told by me that it is polite,which is then followed by a ok.

There have been times when the person in question has said not to worry,but most times "mini me" get a lovely smile and thanked by the person.

Start them young with the manners i say:P...and doing what mum says!!!!!!!!!
Nookes, May 18, 2009 @ 19:14

Thanks Val for what you just wrote. Because in all honesty, I have seen FAR more rude adults than rude teenagers in Geneva. And I see a lot of extremely rude behaviour directed at young people when I travel or shop. The attitude is: You have no money, therefore you are not worth my time.
MarmarK, May 18, 2009 @ 19:23

The woes of lamenting the habits of the younger generation have been repeated since Plato`s time..



We have chosen to substitute discipline and manners with freedom of the young (teachers no longer able to tell a child NO!), with some it is more inate , and those youngers will give up a seat, but this is the exception. It's clearly not a case of manners , but of respect for those older or less fortunate.. We as a society have chosen to pursue a "ME" culture , my seat, my space..



Yes .. we are all older and constantly getting older. My parents would have said the same things about my generation.



If we see a youngster or "an adult" sat when clearly there is someone in more need , we should be able to ask them to stand.. I remember my mother doing this when I was smaller , I'm not sure the reaction I would receive now.



For me a bigger issues is queueing , but I think that's just because I'm English :)
britabroad, May 18, 2009 @ 20:09

Nir_ (17/05/2009)

---

This is just an observation of something that kills me: in GVA, I rarely see people giving up their place on the bus for old people.



I grew up inIsrael, wheregiving up your place in a bus to an old man/woman isthe norm. Back there, most folks would be ashamed to be seen sitting down when an old man is left standing.



In GVA, it's not the case. Sure, some folks do give their places to old people. But many times this is not the case.



Is this your impression as well?

Oh...well...



Casuistik, May 18, 2009 @ 22:14

May I add the tuppence-worth of an authentic ancient?



I walk with a cane and I use the TPG every day. Sometimes I'm hardly on the bus before someone is leaping to his/her feet to offer me a seat, at other times I'll stand for as long as 20-25 minutes before I can sit. I do try to avoid the rush hours but there are occasions -- going for a blood test early in the morning, for example -- when it's not an option.



However, while I'm standing and clinging to a safety rail I inwardly glare at the stroppy youth or the portly business types and tell myself that their sins of omission will surely return to haunt them when it's their turn to have aches and pains - if they should be lucky enough to live that long, that is.



And on days when I'm feeling fairly content with my world -- it does happen -- I tell myself that perhaps I don't really look old enough to warrant a seat after all. There's nothing like giving oneself a pat on the back !



That said, I do find that young women are usually very quick to offer their seats. Could it be that the males who don't are actually gauche and shy?





Ritchie, May 19, 2009 @ 00:53

this's so common topic...but once i ve a bad experince...normally we should must give the place all females...even they are yong or older.it's does't matter...once i gave my place a female..and in repliey she said i could stay on my legs batter...then seat.....so you cold imagine some time if you do batter but you ve so strange repliey....
Alpes-to-K2, May 19, 2009 @ 03:17

[quote]



That said, I do find that young women are usually very quick to offer their seats. Could it be that the males who don't are actually gauche and shy?



[/quote]



I was on crutches for eight weeks last fall and I don't have a car. I found it fascinating taking the bus. Over the course of 8 weeks, three men offered their seat. THREE! (and two of them were not native French speaking) Every other time I was offered a seat, it was a (young) woman between the ages of about 15 and 50, usually on the younger end of the spectrum.



The poster above who commented on people listening to music on their cell phones w/no headphones, I totally agree, but what do you say to them? I just don't have the French for that. In D.C., I've heard bus drivers make the announcement that "whoever is sharing their music with others needs to put their headphones on, turn it off or get off the bus." Usually worked, too, because then the other passengers could add pressure through glares. But, I don't see the bus drivers here doing that. Wish they would, though.



misskate, May 19, 2009 @ 08:50

[quote][quote]



The poster above who commented on people listening to music on their cell phones w/no headphones, I totally agree, but what do you say to them? I just don't have the French for that. In D.C., I've heard bus drivers make the announcement that "whoever is sharing their music with others needs to put their headphones on, turn it off or get off the bus." Usually worked, too, because then the other passengers could add pressure through glares. But, I don't see the bus drivers here doing that. Wish they would, though.



[/quote]



Once a bus driver was so pissed off he came all the way back to the bus to tell the kid to either get off or turn off his radio. At the next stop, the kid had put on his radio again. So the driver kicked him out. They also have announcements on the bus, but they are written ones.

I think people are scared to say something, which is a pity. In French, you can say: "vous pouvez mettre vos écouteurs s'il vous plait?" but even if you dont speak french, i think some signs are easy to do to make yourself understand. Most people around you will agree with you, so what's to lose?

[/quote]



i was going to say that yes, it is cultural , but having said that , i often carry groceries on the bus and i am with a child and or a dog or all of the above and people do offer us their sit so we can all sit together

ok i am not that old but i am just saying that there is some consideration to someone travelling with packages, animals and children , and i appreciate it

but as for old people, i got to say that when i had babies the worst people in the world were elderly complainers who would scream, and once an old man hit my three year old son with a cane for being wild on the bus and i was very upset needless to say

then i heard an explaination that the elderly have been brought up to accept physical punishment and to voice their opinions as though we were living in a small village

so i did not have a positive image of elderly swiss till i got a dog and since then i have been met with smiles and affectionate cooing, of course all directed to my best friend ,

who loves it and cant get enough attention

i myself offer sits to elderly people but they often times seem offended by it

it is probobly a cultural thing, about being elderly and tough

and surviving many snow storms ---
star, May 19, 2009 @ 10:54

I was in Prague just after the velvet revolution many years ago and saw a 70 year old man beating a teenager with his walking stick for refusing to offer his seat...would be great if we had some direct action from those that need the seats if the portly business types and teenagers refuse.
nickpenn, May 19, 2009 @ 11:52

wow where did we go with that thread ?

old people beating people up for their seats?

well if they can beat someone up , they dont really seem to need the seat , do they?



i must say having my dog solved two issues

old swiss people have become friendly and my dog , a jack russle mix, will attack anyone raising a cane to me or a child of mine

i think that answers nir's question why old people are not given seats¨here

perhaps out of fear ---

star, May 19, 2009 @ 12:05

i have the problem of having a young child in a pushchair and another one in tow. The problem is with the old buses that have 2 steps to get into. Numerous times I have struggled by myself trying to pull the pushchair up the steps whilst the others on the bus just sit and watch me. The last time the bus driver actually got up and came back to help me (shouting at all the people sitting in their seats watching!) Maybe they didn't want to get up in case an elderly person took it!
pazzer, May 19, 2009 @ 14:03

yea right

i learned this the hard way, i used to go with THREE under five toddlers (a baby , a year and a half and three ) in n buses with steps and all , two in a twin buggy one barely walking and have learned this lesson about swiss germans ; you need to ask , you need to tell

otherwise you would get the glassy stares

i remember from this stressful time one thing, foreigners almost always ran to help ...
star, May 19, 2009 @ 15:31

I don't know, I don't take the bus, I have a car. I'm not trying to make a point, just bragging! Thank you ;)
catalin, May 19, 2009 @ 15:52

I guess the best would be for everyone to treat each other with courtesy and kindness, whether on the tram, the highway or the bike piste.

We can all make a difference wherever we go, no matter what age or circumstances we're in. The young, strong and able should be aware of their responsibility and honour to protect the old, weak and disabled (or burden-ladened, such as those pushing someone's wheelchair or perambulator, carrying heavy bags or attending to many children).

Little gests make a big difference.
MarmarK, May 19, 2009 @ 19:34

Marmark: ofcourse you're right. But that's not reality...
Nir Ofek, May 19, 2009 @ 20:11

Complaining about the younger generation has been going on for some time.;)



"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for

authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer

rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,

chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their

legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."



attributed to the Greek philisopher Socrates (469 BC–399 BC)



muon, May 19, 2009 @ 21:19

[quote]Complaining about the younger generation has been going on for some time.;)



"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for

authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer

rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,

chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their

legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."



attributed to the Greek philisopher Socrates (469 BC–399 BC)



[/quote]



Muon, fantastic perspective! This thread probably says more about "mature" adults than ados. To be truthful, I've often found myself thinking that youth in Geneva are much more considerate (on the whole) from my previous cultural experience. Or even my own youth... I was never taught to give up my seat, though the only bus i knew was the big yellow submarine out in hillbillielandia.
tnt749, May 19, 2009 @ 23:13

Muon: well said...:) Then I guess we're just keeping up with the tradition of dissing the teens...(-:
Nir Ofek, May 19, 2009 @ 23:44

Nir_ (19/05/2009)

---

Muon: well said...:) Then I guess we're just keeping up with the tradition of dissing the teens...(-:

Much ado oabout nothing...
Casuistik, May 20, 2009 @ 00:00

I gave my seat up for an old lady in Tokyo on the metro  - apparantly in Tokyo you just do not do this ...

I saw why -   it turend out it was a bad thing to do - it caused a fight between her and another old lady over who was the oldest and most deserving !   oh no !  real fisticuffs !
Helen E, May 20, 2009 @ 00:19

i was in some sofia and saw an old guy pretty much doing the same thing. i said, what the hell? to my friend, and started to get up. she said, sit down. he used to inform on us all. let him stand now, he can sit in hell.



here i never even try to get a seat, everyone else is either older or has kids. and women arent wearing heels because they are fun to walk on, guys. let them sit and thank them for their efforts in keeping geneva beautiful...
floydmarks, May 20, 2009 @ 00:48

[quote][quote]



and women arent wearing heels because they are fun to walk on, guys. let them sit and thank them for their efforts in keeping geneva beautiful...[/quote]



That made me smile , thanks :)[/quote]

wow what a powerful statement , this thread should be made into a novel

in Israel, nir, old people are different,

for exemple when my youngest had a temper tentrum at the age of the terrible two an old man came up to him on the street and asked, do you want a cake little boy? i would buy you a cake

here on the other hand the old people would scream at me as if it were my fault my son was screaming

take a taxi next time , i would answer

as for seat

like the guy said , you know where they can sit if they act like that

but having said that there are kind and mean people everywhere

i suppose here though the older generation has quite a reputation what with beating kids at school allowed and being so tough and heartless, no wonder they cant get a seat

but for the ones who have been kind, and deserving, i will give my seat, and just in case i cant tell, i will let them enjoy the benefit of the doubt

:) give them a break, taxis are so expensive and we cant all go around in cars and ruin the universe can we?
star, May 20, 2009 @ 07:24

hi,

The world's watching ! ...sorry to say, but feel pity on the people.

c'on !....help the world to be a little more better place to live in !:)

~arpan
arpan, May 28, 2009 @ 18:41

[quote]



It's not just rudeness on the tram . . .



This morning, I saw a young woman on the corner of the street, looking rather lost.



"Can I help you? I ask. "Yes, where's the Post Office?"



"Well, you're in the right street. It's about 15 metres further along, on your right."



"Très bien", she said as she strode off, head high in the air.



She was francophone but I did wonder if she'd ever been taught to say "s'il vous plaît" or "merci". Serves me right, no doubt. She probably thought I was a nosey old bag.







Ritchie, May 29, 2009 @ 00:28

Maybe, but I'm neither brave nor new. R.



[quote]hello Ritchie



its a brave new world ;)[/quote]
Ritchie, May 29, 2009 @ 13:03