Thanks-- so far, the heat has not even been turned on.  Last night in Geneva outdoors temp was about 5; indoors, I don't know.  I am subletting for just a short period from another foreign national so would probably have to involve her in the process.

I had understood that Geneva canton had a fixed a date (rather than a temperature) where heat had to begin, so thanks for correcting this perception.

C.

In general heat comes on beginning October.  If it doesn't then it comes on a week later.  if it is unseasonally cold which it certainly is at the moment i take the revolutionary step of putting on a pullover.  That way I find life is ever so simple.  However if you feel that it is easier to insist on your rights which may or may not exist, then go ahead.  Do not put on a cardigan or sweater but warm yourself up by typing léetters and by the time they have been receievd the heationg will be on.  Rather than asl^k this question of glocals have you considered discussing the westion with the other residents in your block.  Because if they are happy with situation then tough s... 

Following Paul's logic -

If a pipe bursts in your apartment, just buy some boots and an umbrella, cause that's much easier than insiting that your landlord fix the pipe.

If you have a problem with your phone, just buy some string and a couple of plastic cups - much easier than actualy speaking to the phone company and insisting that they fix it.

I guess I could go on , but my point is -
people ask questions because they hope someone will take the time to help them with an informed answer.  You don't have to post an answer - so why post something sarcastic that's meant to make the original poster feel foolish? 

Oded

Point taken and it was not meant to make the poster feel foolish.  It was put sarcastically but not meant to be sarcastic (if that is possible).  It has been cold in Lugano for the last few days (although 6 degrees hotter than Geneva) so because we rent the whole building we (actually not me) asked for the heat to be put on.   Now it has got warmer and we are suffering because we have heat.  The point I was making was quite simply why get het up about a minor problem which will solve itself anyway.  Had I put this 'normally' nobody would ahve taken notice of the post 

The first replies were correct but would simply have involved the poster in wasting her time.  Already this weekend it is getting warmer, so yes my comments were mildly sarcastic but with aim of avoiding frustration for a problem which in my opinion does not actually exist.     

And your two points about pipes and phones although exaggereated do underline the problems of getting a landlord or public utility to fix things if you do not speak the language. In fact until I read the last paragraph I was agreeing totally with what you said word for word.  Anyway my post was in good faith 

In our building the heat was turned on a few days ago. So much so that we had to call the regie and find out where the thermostat is in our appartment; it was close to 30 degrees! This is our first winter in the place and it turns out there is no thermostat (floor heating) only a few valves in a closet outside the front door. So I turned all of them to almost closed, and (wide) opened a bunch of the windows . It's now a few hours later and the temp has come down 2 degrees.

I find that, in countries that can get a bit cold, like here, people tend to overreact by heating too much. Same thing happened when I lived in Florida; in summer, office buildings would be airconditioned so cold I would bring a sweater, or go sit outside in the 50-degree (celsius) car to warm occasionally.

I

"so why post something sarcastic that's meant to make the original poster feel foolish? "

you mean like you've just done?

I dont understand why some people seem to have such a problem with other people asking (apparently dumb) questions on glocals, isnt that what a forum is for... I mean, yes we could ask a neighbor but if they are anything like mine they have no idea either... I also have been wondering about heating during this freezing week... even though of course I took the revolutionary step of putting on a jumper (and thermals and thick socks and carrying around a hot water bottle) I am envious of your 30 degrees Cees K!!

First day with the heating on today

We will see...

Issues like this one give you the chance to talk to your neighbours beyond the polite "Bonjour/Bonsoir" exchange. I know most people don't care much about that; but in my opinion, it doesn't hurt, and a good relationship with your neighbours, specially with the consierge of the building can be very helpful in case you need some flexibility at some point with some rule/regulation.

Of course you can ask glocals this kind of questions, but it should never replace the first step of talking to your neighbours/consierge.

Putting on jumper - excellent! but had you also spent time running to a library to look up Kantongericht in the dictionary and typed several furious letters you could possibly have dispensed with the hot water bottle.

Hmm, well, perhaps that would have warmed me up for a while... I run around a lot :) but after a while of course you cool down again so out comes the hotty... I have no intention of furiously fighting for my rights I am just patiently waiting for the heat to come on... which apparently will be sometime soon :)))

Michael, would you mind indicating where your information comes from? I've tried searching, but haven't found anything.

--tor

That is, of course, assuming that one can speak enough french/portugues/italian/etc. to formulate the question and that one is not too shy to speak to neighbors. Some neighbors are not particularly inclined to speak.

Why shouldn't Glocals "replace the first step of talking to your neighbors or concierge"?  If nothing else, some people who have been here awhile give some excellent suggestions, particularly concerning local etiquette.  Some people might need to  get the heat on immediately.

Yes, we should all take the time to get to know and speak the language of the region.  But for God's sake, it sounds rather patronizing to say so when someone is asking simple advice.  If you don't know, or don't care, there is also the option of not replying.

The original question was actually put aggressively.  Rather than just asking are there set times for heating the poster demanded to know rules and obligations.  Hence my original reply for which I believe I was reported to admin

Dare I suggest you try an purchase a sense of humour. 

I re-read it and I didn't feel it was aggressive at all. I read frustration in it.  It even says "thanks if anyone knows the rules.." or something like that.  I don't think you should have been reported to adminstration, though.

In my experience with regies in this town, you can't be too aggressive.

Update on our own experience - I've almost closed all taps but we're still at 27 degrees. Then colleagues yesterday gave two possible explanations, only one of which sounds really plausible:

- when turning on the heat, for the first few days it will be extra-warm and then 'the system' should settle down (doesn't sound logical to me, but I'm wrong all the time, so why not now)

- if you're boxed in in your apartment (we are: neighbours above, below, left and right) and they like it hot, a lot of heat from their units will 'spill over' into yours. I actually experienced this in one of my previous apartments

'For what it's worth'. Chances are a mechanic will stop by our place now, because my wife did talk to a neighbour and he said he'd call someone to come have a look.

I just opened one of the windows again ...

I only have a feeling I was reported But my first posting was prompted by the first reply which outlined a process which would have achieved nothing before the heating would have come on anyway. 

Our heating is now on and we are having to open windows more than usual but there is no way of satisfying everyone.  I agree the regies should be hit hard but for defective heating and there you can involve ASLOCA.  I doubt very much if a regie would switch on heating earlier than usual just because one tenant was feeling the cold (unless that person was elderly). It could even have the opposite effect of upsetting the other tenants. 

So my point was made more to save the poster from wasting his or her time and including the useful information that heating comes on anyway at the beginning of October. 

I seem to be having more problems with the poster of the first reply which should become quite amusing if he does not take the advice I gave in post 20.  See you - off for a beer before the local bar closes.  Am no9t in Geneva and times are differeent in Ticino

I think you have a problem. Someone will correct me if I am wrong but my experience is that the heating comes on gradually over a few days.  Of course depends on the block.  Too hot is far worse than too cold. 

Maybe somebody has experience of this and managed to sort it out. 

I can only suggest taking the first step of checking with the concieriege and taking him into the appartment and with sign language point out the problem.  He or she should contact the regie. 

Totally unconnected question.  Are the first 3 letters of your glocal name the way you spell your first name?.. If so, I have you incorrectly registered on hashstats and will correct.

Re the forum it suddenly occurred to me that 21 degrees C is very hot for an appartment.  Hotter than a summer's day where you come from and me for that matter.  I think the guy is bull sh.....ing.  It is strange that he has not replied to your post.  maybe he has gone shopping.  Best way to check is to call ASLOCA

But I thought you lived in France.

I am sure Translator can tell us if 21C is correct

I have no problem with that. If the forum is deleted, Tawb, before you have time to reply re the hash you can reply on my private email or on the glocals one. 

As the question on the 21 degrees C remains unanswered on this forum, I would be interested if someone could confirm whether this is correct or not.  But, as already stated, I hope it is wrong.  It would however explain why Cees K. Is suffering.

For Michael F.  If this forum is upsetting you then click on the notify box so that you do not get notifications.  If you stay on the forum then I look forward to a reply to post 17.  

Before it happens allow me to brighten your day with the world's funniest joke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gpjk_MaCGM

Another bit of useless information which manages to sum up Britain.  if you watch the you tube documentary, after about nine minutes there is a scene with an British officier being interrogated.  The person playing the part, Michael Palin, is now president of the Royal Society, the oldest scientific body in the world, celebrating its 350th anniversary this year

Deleting the thread would be the easiest course, but in between the bickering and killer humor, there's actualy some useful information here and I'd rather not remove it.

I realize this whole forum thing is complicated, so maybe some very simple guidelines will help:

1. If someone posts a question which you don't want to answer helpfuly - just ignore it and move on.

2. If the information you're posting has nothing to do with the subject being discussed - don't post it.

3. If a thread starts turning into a 'war' between you and someone else - again, ignore it and move on.

These guidelines won't make the world a better place or bring about world peace, but they might encourage friendlier discussions.

Oded

Um, I  am assuming that is a joke?  Join ASLOCA.

But I suggest that you  and the other poster meet at dawn a top the Salève with  paint-ball guns.  God, can't you Europeans  learn to get along with each other or do we have to send in the Marines

Hi.  The first part of the quote is a specific question to Tawb who will probably reply outside the forum.

It is the 21 C temperature which intrigues me and seems very high. Before people waste time checking with ASLOCA, I was just wondering if you knew. You seem to have a vast archive of facts

Regarding pistols at dawn.  i was considering it but he lives in Zurich so Saleve no good. I was considering Meiringen and the Reichenbach falls but that also is a european joke. 

True, I often win in trivial pursuit and try to be helpful...

Thank goodness for the Rrrrrrrrrostigraben

Well if you choose Reichenbach, I  guess I know who goes over the falls...

I very modest about my chances.  But it was never proven.  The body was never found

I believe you  Brits also have a certain "killer joke" in your arsenal... 

Just warn us if you plan to resurrect it...

Yes, well, at least you eventually get to return to 222B Baker Street, scratch on the violin and shoot up with pharmaceutical-grade cocaine provided to you by your own personal doctor-cum-amaneusis (sp?).

MRS. HUDSON!!!!!!

Looks like the guideline # 2 wasn't clear:

If the information you're posting has nothing to do with the subject being discussed - don't post it.

Private messages, email, sms, phone - all very useful when 2 people want to discuss something that's not relevant to the discussion and probably not relevant to anyone else.

Oded

Wow, thanks... Now let's just apply that guideline #2 right across the board throughout all forum discussions...

As do most people. It does appear that the biggest problem is over heated flats, which is why I have been trying to get confirmation of this 21 degree rule which is very hot by European standards but nobody seems to know.  There is nothing worse than an over-heated flat which seems to be.  Maybe Cees K will enlighten us after the engineer has been round.    

I do not know what is upsetting you and have no wish to find out.  If <you read my message carefully you would have deduced that I sent it before I saw your post.  However I looked quickly at the site in your 41st post, typed in temperature and got nowhere.  So maybe you would in your 45th post help a poor old man who is useless on the internet to find the relevant section.  

Have checked all three sites and none of the links are directly involved with temperature.  The French one refers to sous-location.  The German one is just a home page.  If you know the direct link why not post it on the forum.  maybe somebody is interested.  Or copy and paste the relevant bit.  Does not matter in what language wwe will find a glocal to interpret.  Then maybe the forum will close of its own accord

Thanks.  Thefigues are there. Don't have the time to check the site thoroughly but will do so. The meeting in Meiringen on hold