you're only worth as much as they pay you - so any future employer will figure that you must have low self-estemm to accept such an internship ( unless you are learning a specialized skill- brain surgery, rocket science, or if you can justify, photocopying and mail room technology- spell checking etc.

If your current qualification do not allow you to obtain a job or the kind of job you want, then an internship can help you in the right direction. However, as you lack the experience you won`t get paid in full. On top of that, it`s an internship, a position in which you are learning and are not as effective as someone who is trained/has experience. If you want a normal pay, go find a normal job. I assume you posted out of frustration not out of ignorance.

I agree with Thomas.

Although it seems daunting not getting paid or paid very little for an internship, the idea of the internship is to gain experience for the particular field you want to have expertise in, but most importantly for you to learn in a working environment.

From an employers perspective, on one hand they could hire someone who has ample experience and knowledge and not have to worry about training or teaching someone new, or they can take on an intern and teach them 'the tricks of the trade', so to speak, and give them the experience and knowledge they need to further their career. 

ok, but when people are doing long internships without any pay, what exactly are they supposed to live off if they don't have a family with enough money to support them? In the UK media there seem to have been many examples of industries now routinely requiring long unpaid internships as the first rung on the career ladder, which effectively could mean the industry gets the best wealthy people, rather than the best people. 

Having said that I have heard of several companies that have been successfully forced, via legal avenues, to award pay in retrospect (in the UK) under minimum wage law.

Then on the other side of the fence, I know of a case where someone gave a 3 month unpaid internship to someone after they requested it to gain enough experience (they had been repeatedly rejected for paid entry level positions, at other employers, due to lack of experience). If they were forced to pay the person they could not have afforded to take that person on, and that person could not have entered the industry.

In all honesty, If I was doing an internship I would most likely also have a part time job to live on, which is what I did when I was younger. I understand that everyone is different, but thats simply what I did. A few years of hard work in my eyes meant that when i wanted to apply for a job, i had the experience i needed to get taken on as a valued team member. 

I guess it does work on both sides, its just that right now in a lot of cases there are more people than there are jobs, so a company/business is going to take advantage of the opportunities. the way i see it is if i had two applicants, one who is experienced and one who isnt, its a no brainer really, of course you go for the one with experience. but how to gain experience if no one will take you on? 

so at this point i feel that by eing an intern, your 'pay' is the experience and knowledge you gain. of course, this doesnt apply to every single company; im sure there are probably companies out there who take advantage and dont really teach you anything, but sticking it out for a year or so might give you the ticket to that job that you wouldnt have gotten before.

I see the OP is from the UK and should have taken his financial situation into consideration when looking for an internship in one, if not the most expensive country in Europe.

When I was in university and had to do an internship of 10 months, I got paid 400 euro a month, which is very acceptable in The Netherlands(minimum wage is 1200 euro). Besides that I worked 8 hour shifts, both Saturday and Sunday at a gasstation every week.  I shared an apartment in Amsterdam and my part of the rent was 375 euro. Without the support from mom and dad, I got by just fine.

I don’t know what planet you guys are from, but in my world most people don’t get things on a platter.

I'm beginning to wonder if some people have a misguided understanding of what an internship is?? This is not Hollywood, there is no 'new  Emily' (Devil Wears Prada)!

Speaking from experience of working with interns, many of the UN interns are intelligent, career driven graduate students. They know what their interests are, they have some idea of where they would like to be career-wise and are willing to take opportunities to achieve their goals. No one is sorting mail or getting coffees, instead they are working on real world problems. writing recommendations/guidelines etc that are implemented by Member States.

Most of the interns have to do an internship as part of their graduate programs, so this knowledge is already factored in when starting a degree program. 

The question shouldnt be why are internships unpaid but rather how to give the same opportunity and access to students in countries where it is impossible to travel to a foreign country to gain such invaluable work experience...

The idea that an internship is tantamount to slave labor is just plain ludicrous.

No one to my knowledge has ever been forced into an internship position. People apply and volunteer for internships. The practice is completely ethical. Most internships are knowledge transfers where the benefactor is the intern. In some industries these are very effective and highly sought after by applicants looking to be professionals in a particular field. Many of the worlds greatest chefs have staged/interned in order to gain practical working experience. 

Complaining about an internship is a reflection of a persons attitude and work ethic. If I had an intern that complained about the vicissitudes of being an intern. I would do that person a huge favor and let them go immediately. 

On a side note. That new movie "The Internship" is pretty funny and entertaining. 

I agree its not remotely equivalent to slave labor. However, I don't think it then follows that everything about internships is ok. Personally I worry about the fact they are unpaid (not always, but often - especially in certain countries + careers combinations) means some people are excluded from undertaking this important step on the career ladder just due to the fact they cannot afford to work unpaid for a long period of time.

Good point. 

so no one has really commented that employers BUDGET specifically to have interns? in short they dont have the money and expect an intern to do the work

I'd be interested to actually hear from actual interns on this subject - most of the comments are hearsay

well I would NEVER be an intern - it just shows a lack of backbone to not expect a salary for work....I am old fashioned - you work you get paid...and unless the experience is with a  prestigious company I would guess that experience is good as useless

NGOs and companies in public sector, that I have exposure to, do not have budgets for interns. 

You need to make a distinction between private and public sectors...many companies in public sector are dependant on donor funding or funding from Member states. These sources of funding are dwindling and very quickly, so its no surprise there is no budgets for interns when many companies dont have budgets to mantain their own permanent staff

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Just because someone makes a choice and decides to intern with little or no pain, it doesnt mean they have no backbone. You're saying that unless someone works in a presigious company that experience is useless?

I think thats incorrect. Many interns are young adults, people who have never worked or been in a working environment. Ideally working for a prestigous company is great, but even working for a smaller company will give the individual confidence and understanding of working within an environment thats not social or academic. It can teach them general life skills that they would not learn in a classroom, just simple things like how to interact with other professionals on a one to one basis, to work within a team if needed, to work alone in a company hierachy. 

As for the companies - you are forgetting one fundamental. The majority of these are still businesses. Paying isnt the issue - but if they are paying they will expect results. An intern will likely have no experience but also never worked - from an employers point of view, if they can choose to pay someone who knows the job, has done the job and has years of experience OR, an intern just fresh out of university, never set foot in a company environment, never worked before in that particular field, it doesnt take a genius to work out who they're going to pay. 

The intern programmes available are opportunities for individuals to gain experience IF they want them - no one says they have to have them. There are many ways to gain experience and still be paid, this is just one way of doing if you choose it.

On average it takes 6 months  for a new employee to be fully trained for the job they are expected to do. An intern with little to no experience might very well need longer or won’t even be able to fulfill all tasks until they finish their education. Traineeships are on average between 3 months to 1 year. The company will need to allocate manpower to train the intern. Taking into account the time needed for training and reviewing work done by the intern, the company hasn’t gained an extra employee, but actually having to work with less manpower, then before the intern.

Yes, some, mostly smaller companies survive by taking on interns with little to no pay. It`s up to the intern to find the paid one, which also offers a valuable learning experience. Smaller companies often offer an intern tasks with more responsibility then bigger ones. If you think you get a certain job just because you had an internship doing minor tasks at Google, your working life could turn out to be very disappointing.

The only problem for me!not  for all....Its good to start with intership but most organization in Geneva the number of interns is increasing day by day.private companies,UN they dont want to pay.then i will say its close to slave because if you ask the interns they are working more than the paid but they are not forced to!!!

It certainly has, Rich. Banks can now post losses running into hundreds of millions, the bankers responsible won't lose their jobs and taxpayers will bail them out. Very different from the 70s.

Btw, on the whole internship thing - I always thought it was in most cases part of doing a degree and you just got on with it. I think the issue would only become a problem if instead of a qualified graduate intake, companies decide to use interns as a replacement as a cheaper option knowing they can be kicked out and replaced in a few months.

I'm just curious how often the company gives the intern a position at the end of their time there? It's a shame there's no conversion rate statistics available.

Thinking about it, why would they give them a job at the end of their internship anyway? Surely it'd be better from senior management's point of view to just keep employing interns for peanuts in order to keep operating costs low and the shareholders happy.

Yes if you are Apple and running a factory in China, then yes.

Rich, have you been drinking?

------------

I don’t believe this is normal practice at multinationals, I think the complaints regarding this come from those looking for a job at a UN/NGO organization. 

I did a traineeship at a small event company who didn`t have the resources to pay a full salary. So they did survive on hiring  an intern everytime.Compared to others my pay was however very reasonable and I was given sufficient support and much more responsibilities which made it a valuable learning experience. I`d say it was a win-win.

If multinationals, like Nestlé would hire a lot of interns to cut cost, then yes it would be bad as they do have the resources to hire a regular employee. However, I haven’t read anything about that and I don’t think you (hardly) ever will.

No Thomas. I hadn't been drinking but thanks for your concern.

I understand that this would mainly relate to NGOs of which I can't comment. However for private or listed companies, I just wanted to know what the conversion rate from intern to employee was. That was all I was asking.

I'm a fan of internships as all experience, however obtained, is useful. But from a purely business point of view you have to admit, they are brilliant. What other way could you employ someone who's almost graduated for less than you'd pay your cleaner, get them to do a shedload of work, get rid of them and they will thank you for it! Superb! 

You and I should setup a massage parlor..

I'm on it! Opening soon in Nyon 'Dickie's Happy Ending Super Smiley Massage Parlour'. Snag is I have nothing permanent for you but you can intern for me. 

An internship is not slave labour. Whoever does one does it out of choice. It's a risk, does one get more value from the experience than the money lost out from a fully paid position? This could be a way of proving oneself to get a lucrative job that they would never otherwise get. 

One way to looking at it is comparing it to setting up your own company. A lot of work could be put in for no payoff (that includes experience) or it could propel one to a higher standard of living than they would otherwise have. 

The best option would be to fully consider the position on offer, get a full insight of the duties involved, learning on offer and then decide if it's worth it. If it doesn't work out as planned c'est la vie.

Apologies for slightly digressing as most of the posts (massage parlors aside - Stop it, you two!...) are articulate, interesting and well informed.  

Then we come to parker k who thinks that anyone who works as an intern is a spineless idiot.

Ergo, all the people who also do unpaid voluntary work, community work, charity work, or help others to help themselves, with no expectation of reward, also come into this category?

Almost as idiotic a thought process as Post #1 "you're only worth as much as they pay you".

If this is, indeed, your attitude and you would only ever "work for a salary in a prestigious company" then you're not only in the wrong job - you're in the wrong life.

I suppose there is a big difference though between working for free for a non- profit making organisation and working for free for a company that is making profit from your free labour.

if an internship also offers valuable training and is not replacing the work of a paid worker, this seems reasonable.

Unfortunately many companies seem to be taking advantage of the current economic situation to use internships basically  as a way of getting unpaid workers.

As much as one can read let's go back to the basic in the practical world - not just theory or fantasy - when one young fellow goes for an internship. Even though it could be offered by an international organisation or a multinational, the future intern has usually several options to choose from and - if well prepared - in light to his/her objectives in short to mid term. Whether compensation is/ is not around the corner you decide to go for more than just pocket money or lump sum. You have little or no experience but you want to get a grip to the professional world in light of your target.If chosen carefully the internship can be invaluable. Meeting professionals + filling in business cards smartly in a portfolio + asking right questions and having access to real information in a project he/she signed for for a given period of months. We are not talking about an intern just perparing or serving tea/coffee with or w/o donuts...One can MAKE IT HAPPENS by being selective BEFORE accepting the internship. Hasty decisions often bring young people to feel jipped. Some of us certainly recall friends or friend of a friend who brought a project or included a project when meeting HR department at times of signing the contract. Making contacts and getting the keys are the golden values. Even searching through archives and documentation might be good as gold when done properly. at least I had examples.

I'm fairly late to the conversation, but I just wanted to add my two cents :)

I'm currently interning at a UN agency, and I'm getting paid quite decently. It's not nearly as much as a permanent/contracted employee would be paid, but it is more than enough to survive in Switzerland. To add, I'm a Master's graduate with ~ 2 years work experience. And I'm not spineless. So why I am I doing an internship? One reason (which hasn't really come up in this thread) is that the job market isn't the same as it was 10 years ago. There are a lot of highly qualified graduates entering a market with few jobs, and employers know this. When I started the job hunt towards the end of my Masters, I came across a large number of "internships" or short term contracts that require more than 3 years work experience AND a graduate (Masters/PhD) degree. Admittedly, this is in the international development/NGO sector, which I am interested in, and internships are considered a "right of passage" in this field. I know things are slightly different in the private sector, but given that there aren't a lot of full-time jobs for recent graduates at the moment, a lot of "us" are looking into internships in private/public sector, because they offer a chance to network and gain valuable experience. It's almost better than nothing. The sad reality is internships don't always offer the opportunity to stay on as a permanent/contracted employee, so you're seeing a lot of smart (and strong-back-boned) graduates jumping from one internship to another...and that starts to look bad on a resume, and so getting full-time work gets harder....and, so the cycle continues...

Wow!  Is it already time for the annual internship discussion?

This always seems to be a difficult subject to get a clear view on because people with direct experience of either being, or failing to become, an intern tend to have a somewhat partesan opinion based on that, rather small sample.

The types of people we don't hear from are those who hire interns, or who have budgetary responsibility for their positions.

Anyway: here's an article from a couple of years ago that takes a particular view (which I may or may not share).

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/nov/04/internships-scandal-britain-unpaid-army

A more recent guardian article suggests the UK government has started fining companies using interns, for breaching minimum wage laws:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/11/taxman-minimum-wage-spot-checks?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

working link:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/11/taxman-minimum-wage-spot-checks

Thanks Andy.  Wow! That Kit Sadgrove who manages Etsio is a genius! What a brilliant business model. Charging interns up to £100 (CHF140) a day for positions in specialised businesses. I might look into seeing if they'd like someone to run a Swiss office. That is just superb! 

I have worked in HR at the UN (mostly in field offices) and I can share my first hand experience as an employer. Yes it is true that when people have loads of work and little budget they ask to hire an intern or UNV. Sometimes managers have surplus budget which they don't want to carry to the next year (yes it's a bad thing to enter next budgetary year with a + you won't get your project funded because you didn't manage to spend) and then they can hire someone for a good salary to do nothing! All those who work for UN know about the temporary posts appearing towards the end of the year. Anyway, the purpose of interning is not only learning valuable transferable knowledge but networking and making the "right" friends. As long as you impress the right people it doesn't matter how your CV looks like, you will get a post!

I know of one intern at the UN here in geneva who did grocery shopping, cooked food and did babysitting for her boss when she was on maternity leave and she has got a good job now :). Another one was here for 9 months, supported by her parents, didn't make right friends, spent a lot of money and now is back in her home country with no job. The real world is different from the one we read in books. So it is quite frustrating for some people to compete with others when knowledge and merit are not the only thing which count.

The UN and related organisations is no reflection what so ever of 99.99% of other businesses where you can do an internship (I can be slightly off behind the comma).

I do understand to a certain extent why one would want to work at a UN organisation as an intern, the work experience can be invaluable. There is also the added bonus of being able to say you worked at the UN on your CV. However, the tendency is now for private companies to hire executive assistants as interns, which in my book is just an excuse to hire cheap labour. These are desperate times and people who have never worked or have been out of work for a long time someimes don't have a choice. And there is no guarantee that these interns will be taken on permanently, after all the employer is in a win win situation.

Hi Thomas. Apologies but did you mean private companies are better or worse as far as internships compared to the UN and other similar organisations?