Luca, you are the master of deep things...

The fact your friends got dumped after doign a romantic genture to their exes does not mean they got dumped because of romance. It means they got dumped cos their girls did not love them, that's it.

From what I know, EVERYONE (girls and guys) loves it when their partner shows them he/she cares, and that their partner went to great lenghts to make something special happen for them.

It is true that 'old world' romance is not mre frowned upon, but the overall concept will live as long as people live.
Nir Ofek, Jan 12, 2006 @ 15:31

... I take the opportunity to put up some comments. Of course I don't expect anyone to take that in a personal way. Don't know the guys, just know the (short version of the) story....

First of all I agree with El Guiri. There are (at least) two sides in every story and a lot of small problems tends to be accumulated in long term relationship.

Second I believe there are place for romance in some relationships but that is not a rule. Relationship is exchange of information after all and some peps (guys and girls) might want to "force" a relationship to a specific direction that the partner doesnt necessarily agrees.

Finally, in the latest century scientists have been making amazing discoveries.... but no one ever found out what really matters: What a girl wants.


zenbrain, Jan 12, 2006 @ 15:52

Luca,
This is what I personally think:
Girls or at least some of them love romanticism. I don't think it's dead, at all. I hear friends of mine complaining and dying for a romantic gesture.
What went wrong with romanticism these days is that is most of the time forgotten and then people remember it only once a year or even less, and do big gestures (and I am not talking about your story in details, just a general comment).
Although I love big thing like weekends away etc etc... sometime they really are not enough if that's the only attention a girl gets..
And that's why some people gets dumped even after a big romantic thing.

Now on the other hand ...there are mis-usage (or however u spell that word) of romanticism.
Some guys (and I am talking from personal experiences) are extremely romantic (as into preparing u a hot bath, being super nice and attentive etc etc etc) from the very beginning ... atlhough they are not that interested into you.
It's just ... a game. For someone is flirting, for some guys is being naughty in a club to see how many girls he can get, for some others is being nice and romantic and see how easy u'll fall for that. And once u do fall for that ... it was of course all a big misundertanding (I still wonder on the multiples meaning of the words I Like u so much, cause they are hard to misunderstand)...
so ...
I'd say that some girls (and I am not speaking only for myself, but some other friends) get suspicious when someone is suddenly nice and romantic, cause they don't expect it and think that's JUST another game.

Val.
Hoiling, Jan 12, 2006 @ 16:24

.. and i think it's a bit true. Some people tend to stick with the wrong partern for a long while before realzing they are just hurting themselves at least up to a certain limit.
But I am not sure if it's feeling not worth of LOVE or just not wanting to leave what they have for being scared of being alone...

Val, in the mood for this kind of topics
Hoiling, Jan 12, 2006 @ 16:29

.. in my personal experience .. I agree with you.
They'll say everything giving them enough booze :)
btw how do you fine tune a bullshit radar? Mine didn't work and I am paying the consequences...


Men!!

Cheers
Val
Hoiling, Jan 12, 2006 @ 16:44

Luca, sad stories and even sadder 2 hear that they're true.

But u define these stories as a lack of "romance"...but do we all have the same definitions? In the traditional sense, the stories u describe r really considered "romantic situations" (candles n sh*t) but wat r ppl looking 4 today?

Small everyday gestures that tells some1 u luv them like a kiss on the fridge or a hug when u come home...or these grandoise situations u describe above that's seem like they've been saved up (and slaved over i admit) for sometime? Maybe the gesture, grand as it was, was just too late...just an idea.

But i agree, sometimes, watever u do, it's just not gud enuf :_ (

Hence, i also agree in the bigger picture with AmericanGirl's theory...i call it the masochist love syndrome...we always want wat we cant get or what's hard to get. Basically,the challenge of the chase is more thrilling then the capture of the prize itself...and when the chase is over, and u realize u've got the prize, and u're all sweaty and tired and panting, u realize that all u really really want is a cold shower ; )

Read this book, called "girls" by a guy called Nick sthing...super fantastic as a partial answer to the above...
Tigger, Jan 12, 2006 @ 16:58

... but if you dream alone it's just a dream!
If you go too deep with romance with a girl who's still living "just another story" you'll scare her away, exactly as you would run as hell if your lovely but week-long date would begin to talk about wedding or babies.
Let things get mature before exagerating with romance, boys!
Ladies are just as scared as we are of chains! Whatever they tell around!
Stef__Granny, Jan 12, 2006 @ 17:06

I do like a thought-provoking thread. I haven't yet read everyone's responses as there are many, but my view is that getting dumped after a Romantic gesture is, like Nir says, generally not causal ie how many guys also get dumped after no romantic gesture. I predict a lot more !

However that said, I do think if a girl already has some doubts about a relationship then a romantic gesture can bring things to a quicker head, as it will invoke guilt in the girl that he has invested so much time and money into the relationship and so it will seem more one-sided than ever before. So I think the girl will be moved to action quicker, to save him his time and money for future - and to reduce her own guilt about the imbalance in the relationship.
Nottm_Lass, Jan 12, 2006 @ 17:43

ASW have answered you tread there.....
tigritsa, Jan 12, 2006 @ 19:04

I am a dreamer. I would like to think that small attentions are always there, etc, etc. Romanticism should be present in all relationships, but the bigger challenge is to pull through a very long period. From what I saw with those that are closer to me, they are very romantic at first, tons of efforts, supernatural beings absolutely perfect! The things may start to calm down a bit and fall into a certain routine when one starts thinking that the relationship is "acquired". I personally think that it's here that the mistake is made...so, people, be romantic, girls are already more romantic in their nature than men. Men that are romantic and assume it is great and girls really appreacite it (macho time is over...).
Iolly, Jan 12, 2006 @ 19:52

Grab this one!
Sounds like he read you!!!
(never mind if you don't get it: who need to know, knows :-D)
Stef__Granny, Jan 13, 2006 @ 01:15

Feed us!
We are an easy gender after all! :-)
Stef__Granny, Jan 13, 2006 @ 01:32

Ok....heard the cry....now it's my turn to comment! Oui, c'est BetC way too early on a Friday morning! :)
First of all, Luca, your friend....send me his number because he sounds like a catch!! Romance is not dead....just a little drunk (vodka and redbull does it every time......have the devil horns and tail on for sure)!!
Seriously though......so many fabulous comments on this thread! The GOL public is super mature and I love it! You are all fabulous!
Unfortunately, for the guys that expressed their romantic and sensitive side....they got a raw deal! Many girls do love romance, I believe (myself included)! I also believe that many men do as well. In the instances quoted above....it appears to me that the women involved were just not into the men they were with. Some women tend to settle for "Mr. Right Now" while looking for "Mr. Right". I can't condone the behavior as I have been there myself. But speaking freely to you all....sometimes it just doesn't work....no matter how hot or inticing the opposite sex might be. And let me tell ya....I love men and have been inticed.....only to find myself alone.
I have been wined and dined by men....had incredibly romantic evenings...only to find out that once I gave them what they wanted (ehem, SEX) they turned out to be.....MIA! This goes both ways!!
You never know what is truly going through someone else's mind and we all have our issues.....yes, we all have them. But the best we can do is be positive that someone out there in this big world shares the same feelings and we will find them!
Being the ripe old age that I am....I still believe in romance and that there is someone out there for me (old fashioned as it may sound!)
Keep on rockin on GOL! The world is our oyster! Be yourself and be loved for who you are! Don't try to make something it is not! If it doesn't turn out the way you had hoped.....move on and hope that the next person will see you for the amazing person you are! Love is in the air....hope it floats my way!
Peace out! BetC has spoken! You rock! Kisses!
BetZ, Jan 13, 2006 @ 04:46

A friend of mine said that she was thankful her husband was so easy. If he came home from work cranky, it meant one of three things. He was either
a. hungry
b. tired
c. needed sex

So, her approach was to feed him, take him to bed, have sex and then let him sleep.

They have a very happy/healthy marriage with gorgeous kids. It's been about fifteen years for them, so here's hoping it keeps going!
misskate, Jan 13, 2006 @ 14:10

females...like romance....they all do. just dont over do it man...
u got to know when u cross the line...u HAVE to show who is boss...
and that u play the game ...
otherwise she will get bored of ya...thats what happenned to the fellow...

good boys dont survive in the 21st century. women have become MEN and men have become puppies...
thats where the problem is...
think about it:)
NOname, Jan 13, 2006 @ 15:42

i am 200% sure...thats what females like..

their brain stimulated all the time....the male must be always on the edge of losing him otherwise...the female shall leave.
its proven , plus the above 2 sad cases prove it again.


NOname, Jan 13, 2006 @ 16:35

if the female feels the male is hers...whatever she does..

then the game is over....

MALE must be always....ready to lose...keep the lady on the tip toes...
NOname, Jan 13, 2006 @ 16:41

Just reading the post on this very very long thread, and belonging to the "I hate playing by the rules, pretending to be who I am not" person ... I just wanted to say ... that ....
In the end, if 2 people click who cares about the rules to follow etc etc.
And also that men very ofter send non clear message, being flirty one day, romantic the other and ignoring you the day after ...
It's SO complicated!! I don't know if it has to be blamed on the women, the men or Sex and the city - if u are not like Samantha everyone thinks u are Charlotte today ...

Sorry if my message is not clear but when we talk about love and romanticism I never am ...

Val
Hoiling, Jan 13, 2006 @ 18:06

just enjoy the ride!
You'll wonder if you'll have another date later!
;-)
Stef__Granny, Jan 14, 2006 @ 04:35

Chains on both sides!
Boys, girls, build it before you expect it!
And I was serious in my answer to Americangirl short ago!
Stop planning!
You like the boy/girl? Get laid!
You'll have a clearer picture on weather he/she's worth a second date or not... and I'm not talking about sex here!
Ciao belli!
Stef__Granny, Jan 14, 2006 @ 04:39

I'd better come home cranky! :-D
Stef__Granny, Jan 14, 2006 @ 04:41

my last romantic experience can be summarised by how my boyfriend took care of me when I visited at his place

to the normal question of what would you like to drink, I replied "water" each time and this is what I got
first week: a glass of cold water with ice and lemon
second week: water and ice - no lemon
third week: plain water
after that I guess it was - get it yourself and bring me a beer while you're at it. Or perhaps it wasn't so bad, but the standards definitely slipped fast.

with the rest it was the same, he had made a big show of being very attentive and romantic, and well, I fell for it, started to enjoy it and puff it was gone.

no moral to the story really, but for myself, I don't think that the next time I'll be wooed like that - it is good or bad, who knows?
genie, Jan 15, 2006 @ 22:32

he is just not a very good waiter ;)
zenbrain, Jan 16, 2006 @ 15:46

A friend of mine and her husband went on of the weekend seminars. They figured out which were each of their top three languages and the spouse came up with ways to meet those needs. It's a lot of breaking old habits (not necessarily bad ones) and retraining, but accoridng to my friend, it absolutely revolutionized their marriage. And she thought they had a good marriage to begin with.

It's interesting if you take the time to figure out which you prefer.
misskate, Jan 16, 2006 @ 17:38

Let me preface my remarks by saying that there have been many thoughtful and interesting comments made in this thread.

My remarks are the result of my own analysis, personal reflection, and a tendency to ramble on about things that I am not qualified to address properly. So, I encourage you to do your own analysis and reflection as the good people who posted before me have done. If you actually finish reading this, I welcome your comments.

I’ve tried to be objective in distilling my thoughts into what is basically an academic exploration of relationships in the modern age. I offer only 1 piece of advice and it’s at the end.

This isn’t our parents or grandparents time. Lifestyles have changed dramatically in our lifetimes. Divorce rates are up. Infidelity is commonplace among both women and men in relationships. We travel more. We have incredible facilities for communication since the explosion of the internet. We can meet people from cultures and locations that our parents couldn’t imagine. We have a terrific choice of partners when forming relationships. Many communities have broadened their collective minds and become much more tolerant of relationships that would have been unacceptable in our parents’ time. Sure, there are still closed-minded bigots who are somehow offended by inter-racial, homosexual, inter-faith, or other non-traditional relationships; but they are no longer capable of preventing such relationships in many places.

With such an increase in tolerance, selection, and the ability to interact; one might think that it would be much easier to find a suitable partner and live happily ever after. Maybe it does, but it also makes separation much easier. Divorce is more accepted. Leaving one relationship seems to be easier when there are potential suitors waiting for an opportunity.

I’m using the word relationship quite a bit. So, I should say that my statements are only applicable to healthy relationships between consenting and informed adults. If the relationship includes someone with significant psychological problems or a profound lack of interpersonal experience, then the whole thing goes out the window.

It seems to me that the problem is not in finding someone to pursue a relationship, but in the nature of the relationship itself. The foundation of any personal relationship (familial, platonic, romantic, or otherwise) is love.

I’m going to go out on a limb and explain what I call loving someone and how that is different from what may be considered being in love with someone.

Love is a collection of attitudes, beliefs, and actions directed towards one’s self or another. Some aspects of love are compassion, honesty, trust, interest, generosity, sympathy, empathy, concern, pride, confidence, and tolerance. These aspects and the others that collectively make up love all have one thing in common. They are all the natural consequences of respect. My simple definition of love, in all its forms, is the mental and physical manifestation of respect. The more you respect a person, the more you will love them. If you respect a person, you will naturally display the previously mentioned characteristics. To properly love another, you must respect and therefore love yourself.

Being in love with a person is a wholly different collection of attitudes, beliefs, and actions usually reserved for another. When you are in love, you are affected by primal forces of nature, mind-altering hormones and brain chemicals, personal preferences, and cultural views. These are all very potent factors that influence your thoughts and actions.

Do you believe in love at first sight? I believe in being in love at first sight. I believe in love before first sight, but only in the form of a universal love for all others. It’s possible to experience the natural instincts, the flood of chemicals, the link to personal preferences and cultural views as soon as you see someone; but it is not likely that you will develop a sudden and overwhelming respect for them that quickly.

This difference is at the heart of the often-confusing, relationship-ending statement “I love you, but I’m not in love with you.” I believe that this is sometimes why love isn’t enough. This is sometimes why the nice guy finishes last. This is why many modern relationships fail.

Love is mostly mental and a product of the character of the members of a relationship and generally increases or decreases slowly throughout a relationship, unless the other person changes dramatically (in reality or in your eyes).

The effects of being in love are more powerful in the short term and can degrade nearly as quickly as they leap up from nowhere.

When the effects of being in love recede or spring forth for another, the change affects a persons willingness to invest in the relationship. A successful long-term relationship will most often be built upon love and therefore respect, rather than the fleeting effects of being in love.

FREE ADVICE: If you want to be happy and have a good healthy relationship, be sure to respect yourself and others.

Double_D, Jan 17, 2006 @ 09:33

all these replies are excellent...

but you guys are thinking about it and analysing it too much....

just go with the flow....and N'joy the ride...without thinking....

Njoy while it last...coz love is precious...and comes very RARE!
NOname, Jan 17, 2006 @ 12:25

Sex and romanticism are too different things. They can perfectly live side by side. So the girl sleeping with her ex is not the end of the world. BZW, I seems the evening was not that great since she felt the need to part ways after the massage. An other possibility is that your friend is a lousy lover.

Remember, "If you go Black, you'll never come back"
puke, Jan 17, 2006 @ 15:28

I've read your post. Basically, I think this is how it works: I've dated a guy who was a great romantic but I was not serious about the relationship so no matter how romantic he was, planing the perfect evenings and weekends, I just ended the relationship one day. I told him you are perfect but I'm not in love really....

My present boyfriend is the perfect romantic, always organizing surprise and weekends just for me. I think I'm blessed! and I know that many guys do not put that much efforts in their relationships... Your friend should only invest that much in a relationship if he knows that his girlfriend is really touched by his attentions...
Sophie B, Jan 27, 2006 @ 16:42