Can fellow motorcyclists please educate me about bus lanes in Geneva. Are we allowed to use them?
Also, I know filtering/lane splitting is illegal here but do any of you employ this method to bust through traffic?
Many thanks.
Can fellow motorcyclists please educate me about bus lanes in Geneva. Are we allowed to use them?
Also, I know filtering/lane splitting is illegal here but do any of you employ this method to bust through traffic?
Many thanks.
Can fellow motorcyclists please educate me about bus lanes in Geneva. Are we allowed to use them?
Also, I know filtering/lane splitting is illegal here but do any of you employ this method to bust through traffic?
Many thanks.
Can fellow motorcyclists please educate me about bus lanes in Geneva. Are we allowed to use them?
Also, I know filtering/lane splitting is illegal here but do any of you employ this method to bust through traffic?
Many thanks.
Ajay - why do you feel the need to 'bust through traffic' ? Also I would suggest that bus lanes are for that - Buses...
Ajay - why do you feel the need to 'bust through traffic' ? Also I would suggest that bus lanes are for that - Buses...
Hey Ajay
You are right to ask as there's generally some misunderstandings about it.
Filtering is legal (I thought?) and expected here, although the width and quality of most of the roads in and around Geneva make it unwise in most cases. You certainly shouldn't follow the example of many riders here who think that it's OK to barge through regardless; crossing solid white lines along the way. (White lines are there to protect you - never cross them.)
If you're stuck, the road is straight and wide enough AND you can see an end point, then by all means cut through at a gentle pace. If in doubt it's better to play safe and not do it. I'm a very experienced and assertive filterer (having spent years commuting daily through big cities) and I don't do much of it here. Bear in mind that in every place that filtering is legal it is always considered to be done at your own risk.
Bus lanes can only legally be used by buses and taxis, but you will have noticed that all two-wheelers use them. Since you're new at this I would suggest that you don't take the risk of using bus lanes at all until you're got a feel for how to do it in an unobtrusive way that doesn't annoy people. Having said that: when the weather gets a bit warmer you will be able to trail behind an armada of recklessly ridden scooters down any bus lane you fancy without attracting attention, as long as you do it sensibly.
Oh, and take no notice of Jeff. The bikes he grew up with had a guy walking in front with a flag, so filtering didn't work very well.
Andy
Hey Ajay
You are right to ask as there's generally some misunderstandings about it.
Filtering is legal (I thought?) and expected here, although the width and quality of most of the roads in and around Geneva make it unwise in most cases. You certainly shouldn't follow the example of many riders here who think that it's OK to barge through regardless; crossing solid white lines along the way. (White lines are there to protect you - never cross them.)
If you're stuck, the road is straight and wide enough AND you can see an end point, then by all means cut through at a gentle pace. If in doubt it's better to play safe and not do it. I'm a very experienced and assertive filterer (having spent years commuting daily through big cities) and I don't do much of it here. Bear in mind that in every place that filtering is legal it is always considered to be done at your own risk.
Bus lanes can only legally be used by buses and taxis, but you will have noticed that all two-wheelers use them. Since you're new at this I would suggest that you don't take the risk of using bus lanes at all until you're got a feel for how to do it in an unobtrusive way that doesn't annoy people. Having said that: when the weather gets a bit warmer you will be able to trail behind an armada of recklessly ridden scooters down any bus lane you fancy without attracting attention, as long as you do it sensibly.
Oh, and take no notice of Jeff. The bikes he grew up with had a guy walking in front with a flag, so filtering didn't work very well.
Andy
What the law says:
Bus lane: CHF 60.- + CHF 140.- if the cop is in a bad mood (for passing vehicles on the right side)
What the law says:
Bus lane: CHF 60.- + CHF 140.- if the cop is in a bad mood (for passing vehicles on the right side)
What the law says:
Bus lane: CHF 60.- + CHF 140.- if the cop is in a bad mood (for passing vehicles on the right side)
Thanks for the clarification.
The police regularly position themselves to catch bus-lane offenders but always, in my experience, in places where it's dumb or pointless to use the bus-lane anyway (so they catch a lot of scooter riders).
Also worth mentionaing that the police can fine you for what they judge to be bad riding, which includes "unnecessarily aggressive acceleration". Unfortunately they don't seem to fine people for using their phone while driving, not signalling, not using mirrors or blocking junctions. This is part of the reason why barely competent motorcyclists are a self-eliminating group: you either get good at it or you end up not doing it anymore, one way or another.
Thanks for the clarification.
The police regularly position themselves to catch bus-lane offenders but always, in my experience, in places where it's dumb or pointless to use the bus-lane anyway (so they catch a lot of scooter riders).
Also worth mentionaing that the police can fine you for what they judge to be bad riding, which includes "unnecessarily aggressive acceleration". Unfortunately they don't seem to fine people for using their phone while driving, not signalling, not using mirrors or blocking junctions. This is part of the reason why barely competent motorcyclists are a self-eliminating group: you either get good at it or you end up not doing it anymore, one way or another.
Hey Ajay
You are right to ask as there's generally some misunderstandings about it.
Filtering is legal (I thought?) and expected here, although the width and quality of most of the roads in and around Geneva make it unwise in most cases. You certainly shouldn't follow the example of many riders here who think that it's OK to barge through regardless; crossing solid white lines along the way. (White lines are there to protect you - never cross them.)
If you're stuck, the road is straight and wide enough AND you can see an end point, then by all means cut through at a gentle pace. If in doubt it's better to play safe and not do it. I'm a very experienced and assertive filterer (having spent years commuting daily through big cities) and I don't do much of it here. Bear in mind that in every place that filtering is legal it is always considered to be done at your own risk.
Bus lanes can only legally be used by buses and taxis, but you will have noticed that all two-wheelers use them. Since you're new at this I would suggest that you don't take the risk of using bus lanes at all until you're got a feel for how to do it in an unobtrusive way that doesn't annoy people. Having said that: when the weather gets a bit warmer you will be able to trail behind an armada of recklessly ridden scooters down any bus lane you fancy without attracting attention, as long as you do it sensibly.
Oh, and take no notice of Jeff. The bikes he grew up with had a guy walking in front with a flag, so filtering didn't work very well.
Andy
Gee thanks Andy ...fancy a game of squash next week you old bugger ??
Gee thanks Andy ...fancy a game of squash next week you old bugger ??
Many thanks Andy and Casuistik for the information, it is exactly what i needed to know.
Andy, you say filtering is legal here. Have a read but it may be out of date...
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/switzerland-on-lane-splitting-no-68091.html
Many thanks Andy and Casuistik for the information, it is exactly what i needed to know.
Andy, you say filtering is legal here. Have a read but it may be out of date...
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/switzerland-on-lane-splitting-no-68091.html
It appears that the majority of people in Geneva who use motorcycles or scooters (must admit mainly scooters) don't give a flying f%&* about any road laws anyway, using bicycle lanes, bus lanes, pavements, pedestrian crossings, etc. I'm not saying all, but having been knocked off bicycles by scooters coming into bike lanes, I do notice the bad driving by them more.
But as a heads up, there are more police watching out for drivers in bike lanes these days, not sure about the response from them where bus lanes are used.
It appears that the majority of people in Geneva who use motorcycles or scooters (must admit mainly scooters) don't give a flying f%&* about any road laws anyway, using bicycle lanes, bus lanes, pavements, pedestrian crossings, etc. I'm not saying all, but having been knocked off bicycles by scooters coming into bike lanes, I do notice the bad driving by them more.
But as a heads up, there are more police watching out for drivers in bike lanes these days, not sure about the response from them where bus lanes are used.
It appears that the majority of people in Geneva who use motorcycles or scooters (must admit mainly scooters) don't give a flying f%&* about any road laws anyway, using bicycle lanes, bus lanes, pavements, pedestrian crossings, etc. I'm not saying all, but having been knocked off bicycles by scooters coming into bike lanes, I do notice the bad driving by them more.
But as a heads up, there are more police watching out for drivers in bike lanes these days, not sure about the response from them where bus lanes are used.
Agreed on all points. A lot of scooter riders ride with no regard for anyone's safety, including their own. There's also quite a few who have clearly bought a scooter for its commuting convenience, but who haven't bothered with any training. They typically ride conservatively, but they spend a lot of time positioned incorrectly on the move and at junctions, both of which make a big difference on two wheels.
Both of these types seem happy to mount pavements/sidewalks and plough through pedestrians on crossings.
You shouldn't get me started on scooters ....
Agreed on all points. A lot of scooter riders ride with no regard for anyone's safety, including their own. There's also quite a few who have clearly bought a scooter for its commuting convenience, but who haven't bothered with any training. They typically ride conservatively, but they spend a lot of time positioned incorrectly on the move and at junctions, both of which make a big difference on two wheels.
Both of these types seem happy to mount pavements/sidewalks and plough through pedestrians on crossings.
You shouldn't get me started on scooters ....
Many thanks Andy and Casuistik for the information, it is exactly what i needed to know.
Andy, you say filtering is legal here. Have a read but it may be out of date...
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/switzerland-on-lane-splitting-no-68091.html
Interesting, but it all depends on what legislation (if any) was actually passed.
Lane splitting is not illegal by default, so they don't need to pass a law to make it legal, but they may pass a law to ban it. In most places where it is not allowed it is based on a an existing part of the traffic laws, such as those concerning safe overtaking, so it often comes down to the judgement of traffic police. My experience in many countries (and anecdotally that of many people) is that traffic police are very easy going with riders who they can see are properly equipped, properly aware and riding considerately. This seems to be because a large percentage of traffic police have motorbike experience and they know that most riders are better trained than, for example, car drivers, and that we have a vested interest in safety. This also means that they can easily spot someone who is riding badly, and they quite rightly jump all over them.
Interesting, but it all depends on what legislation (if any) was actually passed.
Lane splitting is not illegal by default, so they don't need to pass a law to make it legal, but they may pass a law to ban it. In most places where it is not allowed it is based on a an existing part of the traffic laws, such as those concerning safe overtaking, so it often comes down to the judgement of traffic police. My experience in many countries (and anecdotally that of many people) is that traffic police are very easy going with riders who they can see are properly equipped, properly aware and riding considerately. This seems to be because a large percentage of traffic police have motorbike experience and they know that most riders are better trained than, for example, car drivers, and that we have a vested interest in safety. This also means that they can easily spot someone who is riding badly, and they quite rightly jump all over them.
