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On racism, sexism and humour

This post is in reply of the Argument Thread where it has been stated, seriously or not, that racist jokes are not acceptable but sexists jokes are.


My reply was that racism and sexism are the same.


To those who may disagree or may wonder why I am stating that, here is an explanation, which only engages me and my point of view.


In terms of science, some research demonstrated that Human subspecies or races do not exist. If you are interested in the research and demonstration, it can easily be found on the Internet.


Then we can talk of course about ethnic groups. Racism is the term commonly used to describe the prejudices and the stigmatization of a group of people of the same colour, the same origin, etc. to justify discriminating actions and behaviour arguing that the group in question is inferior, unworthy or what have you. Does that sound different than sexism?


Racism, sexism or discrimination according to one’s religion or sexual orientation are phenomena with the same root, targeting different groups of people. The only difference with discrimination against women is that women do not constitute a minority. I some cases we can even talk of the subdued majority. Indeed, majority does not necessarily imply power. We also know other cases where the majority was subdued like in South Africa during apartheid.


If sexism was different than racism, then why women were forgotten by the Enlightenment movements and the Declaration of Human Rights following the French revolution in the 18th C until they obtained the voting rights for a vast majority of countries after WWII and the adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights following the atrocities of the Holocaust and thanks to the civil right movements of the 60s and 70s? Needless to say that was not so long ago. And there is still a long way to go in some parts of the World while we can enjoy a certain status and freedom over here. Can human rights be selective? Can we claim equal rights of property, of education, of movement, of voting, of pursuit of happiness, etc. while denying them to another? Consistently, I don’t think so. It either encloses everyone or no one. And there’s no reason to be afraid to embrace everyone's differences.


Getting back now to the question: can we joke about everything? I would say yes. We can be merry, silly, happy and light-hearted even under the worst circumstances. But like with freedom of speech, it is better used with responsibility and awareness. Our words like our actions have consequences. Take a child for instance. Words, even said as a joke, can make a wound in the child’s psyche that may take all of his or her life to heal. Our words like our actions can hurt or kill, even if we don’t mean it, even if it is under the layer of humour. And humour, as we’ve seen with the case of Dieudonné, is a strong political instrument. Under the layer of humour, messages of hatred suddenly become acceptable. This is called propaganda and manipulation.


Our actions and our sayings have consequences. So let us be aware and responsible, especially here on the Internet where our postings are easy and fast.


Let’s question our actions. Let’s use our brains. As far as I know, the human brain has no sex or colour.

The text you are quoting:

This post is in reply of the Argument Thread where it has been stated, seriously or not, that racist jokes are not acceptable but sexists jokes are.


My reply was that racism and sexism are the same.


To those who may disagree or may wonder why I am stating that, here is an explanation, which only engages me and my point of view.


In terms of science, some research demonstrated that Human subspecies or races do not exist. If you are interested in the research and demonstration, it can easily be found on the Internet.


Then we can talk of course about ethnic groups. Racism is the term commonly used to describe the prejudices and the stigmatization of a group of people of the same colour, the same origin, etc. to justify discriminating actions and behaviour arguing that the group in question is inferior, unworthy or what have you. Does that sound different than sexism?


Racism, sexism or discrimination according to one’s religion or sexual orientation are phenomena with the same root, targeting different groups of people. The only difference with discrimination against women is that women do not constitute a minority. I some cases we can even talk of the subdued majority. Indeed, majority does not necessarily imply power. We also know other cases where the majority was subdued like in South Africa during apartheid.


If sexism was different than racism, then why women were forgotten by the Enlightenment movements and the Declaration of Human Rights following the French revolution in the 18th C until they obtained the voting rights for a vast majority of countries after WWII and the adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights following the atrocities of the Holocaust and thanks to the civil right movements of the 60s and 70s? Needless to say that was not so long ago. And there is still a long way to go in some parts of the World while we can enjoy a certain status and freedom over here. Can human rights be selective? Can we claim equal rights of property, of education, of movement, of voting, of pursuit of happiness, etc. while denying them to another? Consistently, I don’t think so. It either encloses everyone or no one. And there’s no reason to be afraid to embrace everyone's differences.


Getting back now to the question: can we joke about everything? I would say yes. We can be merry, silly, happy and light-hearted even under the worst circumstances. But like with freedom of speech, it is better used with responsibility and awareness. Our words like our actions have consequences. Take a child for instance. Words, even said as a joke, can make a wound in the child’s psyche that may take all of his or her life to heal. Our words like our actions can hurt or kill, even if we don’t mean it, even if it is under the layer of humour. And humour, as we’ve seen with the case of Dieudonné, is a strong political instrument. Under the layer of humour, messages of hatred suddenly become acceptable. This is called propaganda and manipulation.


Our actions and our sayings have consequences. So let us be aware and responsible, especially here on the Internet where our postings are easy and fast.


Let’s question our actions. Let’s use our brains. As far as I know, the human brain has no sex or colour.


IzzieFeb 28, 2014 @ 17:33
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 1

This post is in reply of the Argument Thread where it has been stated, seriously or not, that racist jokes are not acceptable but sexists jokes are.

My reply was that racism and sexism are the same.

To those who may disagree or may wonder why I am stating that, here is an explanation, which only engages me and my point of view.

In terms of science, some research demonstrated that Human subspecies or races do not exist. If you are interested in the research and demonstration, it can easily be found on the Internet.

Then we can talk of course about ethnic groups. Racism is the term commonly used to describe the prejudices and the stigmatization of a group of people of the same colour, the same origin, etc. to justify discriminating actions and behaviour arguing that the group in question is inferior, unworthy or what have you. Does that sound different than sexism?

Racism, sexism or discrimination according to one’s religion or sexual orientation are phenomena with the same root, targeting different groups of people. The only difference with discrimination against women is that women do not constitute a minority. I some cases we can even talk of the subdued majority. Indeed, majority does not necessarily imply power. We also know other cases where the majority was subdued like in South Africa during apartheid.

If sexism was different than racism, then why women were forgotten by the Enlightenment movements and the Declaration of Human Rights following the French revolution in the 18th C until they obtained the voting rights for a vast majority of countries after WWII and the adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights following the atrocities of the Holocaust and thanks to the civil right movements of the 60s and 70s? Needless to say that was not so long ago. And there is still a long way to go in some parts of the World while we can enjoy a certain status and freedom over here. Can human rights be selective? Can we claim equal rights of property, of education, of movement, of voting, of pursuit of happiness, etc. while denying them to another? Consistently, I don’t think so. It either encloses everyone or no one. And there’s no reason to be afraid to embrace everyone's differences.

Getting back now to the question: can we joke about everything? I would say yes. We can be merry, silly, happy and light-hearted even under the worst circumstances. But like with freedom of speech, it is better used with responsibility and awareness. Our words like our actions have consequences. Take a child for instance. Words, even said as a joke, can make a wound in the child’s psyche that may take all of his or her life to heal. Our words like our actions can hurt or kill, even if we don’t mean it, even if it is under the layer of humour. And humour, as we’ve seen with the case of Dieudonné, is a strong political instrument. Under the layer of humour, messages of hatred suddenly become acceptable. This is called propaganda and manipulation.

Our actions and our sayings have consequences. So let us be aware and responsible, especially here on the Internet where our postings are easy and fast.

Let’s question our actions. Let’s use our brains. As far as I know, the human brain has no sex or colour.


Feb 28, 14 17:33

I can't help myself.... To humor a serious topic can't be all bad can it?



The text you are quoting:

I can't help myself.... To humor a serious topic can't be all bad can it?


Charlie, Feb 28, 2014 @ 18:55
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 2

I can't help myself.... To humor a serious topic can't be all bad can it?


Feb 28, 14 18:55

Well, these two brains seem equally shallow... Wink

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Well, these two brains seem equally shallow... Wink


Izzie, Feb 28, 2014 @ 19:02
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 3

Self-mockery I find are the best jokes not to be mistaken with self-deprecation.

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Self-mockery I find are the best jokes not to be mistaken with self-deprecation.


Izzie, Feb 28, 2014 @ 19:04
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Post 4


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Casuistik, Feb 28, 2014 @ 19:19
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 5

I smile at sexist jokes too but my worry is that they contribute to perpetuate prejudices and division between genders. Why don't you make sexist jokes about your own gender?

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I smile at sexist jokes too but my worry is that they contribute to perpetuate prejudices and division between genders. Why don't you make sexist jokes about your own gender?


Izzie, Feb 28, 2014 @ 19:23
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 6
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Casuistik, Feb 28, 2014 @ 19:59
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Post 7
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brad h, Feb 28, 2014 @ 22:35
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Post 8

Oh please, save the children! They might grow up thinking, the world does not revolve around them! /sarcasm off


Sorry, but this "save the children" is (word that is not pc to use). Children evolved to live in a world, where they would be hunted, eaten, would starve, see their friends die in horrible ways, loose their parents in a hail storm and eat maggot infested meat.


Luckily, in our time and in our society, we are able to shield them from most. But children will survive much more, than the OP would give them credit for.


Sexism and racism are in the same category and you should be able to make jokes about both. If you loose friends, thats the price you pay for being a prick. On the other hand, there is such great sexist and racist commedy and enjoying them does neither make you sexist or racist.


And of course the human brain has a colour (grey) and sex.


Please, men are not allowed to make jokes about women? 90 percents of the comedians are men. I wouldn't go as far as Hitchens, who claimed that women aren't funny, but there are far fewer funny women than there are men

The text you are quoting:

Oh please, save the children! They might grow up thinking, the world does not revolve around them! /sarcasm off


Sorry, but this "save the children" is (word that is not pc to use). Children evolved to live in a world, where they would be hunted, eaten, would starve, see their friends die in horrible ways, loose their parents in a hail storm and eat maggot infested meat.


Luckily, in our time and in our society, we are able to shield them from most. But children will survive much more, than the OP would give them credit for.


Sexism and racism are in the same category and you should be able to make jokes about both. If you loose friends, thats the price you pay for being a prick. On the other hand, there is such great sexist and racist commedy and enjoying them does neither make you sexist or racist.


And of course the human brain has a colour (grey) and sex.


Please, men are not allowed to make jokes about women? 90 percents of the comedians are men. I wouldn't go as far as Hitchens, who claimed that women aren't funny, but there are far fewer funny women than there are men


Alan S, Feb 28, 2014 @ 23:55
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Post 9

Izzie, to be honest (and brief) in my experience both the best and worst bosses I've ever had have been women. And by miles in each case. The worst seem to have been going though the worst documented case of the menopause ever in medical histoy combined simultaneously with the messiest divorce in history EVER with a bloke who looks EXACTLY like me during the week where they decided to stop smoking after twenty years! The best have been unparelled and went beyond a pleasure to work for. It was strange that the was no women in between. Again, just my experience...


For my marriage, my missus - as many people will attest to - is the brains and looks of the operation... I'm just the rest! Laughing And you know what? I wouldn't have it any other way! In my opinion, each person has their owns strengths. The trick is to be mature enough to recognise and accept that, whichever way it goes. Trust me, it makes like so much simpler.

The text you are quoting:

Izzie, to be honest (and brief) in my experience both the best and worst bosses I've ever had have been women. And by miles in each case. The worst seem to have been going though the worst documented case of the menopause ever in medical histoy combined simultaneously with the messiest divorce in history EVER with a bloke who looks EXACTLY like me during the week where they decided to stop smoking after twenty years! The best have been unparelled and went beyond a pleasure to work for. It was strange that the was no women in between. Again, just my experience...


For my marriage, my missus - as many people will attest to - is the brains and looks of the operation... I'm just the rest! Laughing And you know what? I wouldn't have it any other way! In my opinion, each person has their owns strengths. The trick is to be mature enough to recognise and accept that, whichever way it goes. Trust me, it makes like so much simpler.


Rich, Feb 28, 2014 @ 23:57
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 10

What he said

The text you are quoting:

What he said


Charlie, Mar 1, 2014 @ 07:47
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 11

Really good clever "sexist" and "ethinc" (based on nationality/culture, not race) are funny because they acknowledge the differences


By acknowledging our differences we build understanding. Pretending we are all the same only perpetuates misunderstanding. It's a fact not an opinion that men and woman are different, people from differenct countiries who speak different languages are different. Different is not a value judgement


One of the guys I know who makes the most sexist jokes is probably also the guy who understands woman best, which is quite an achievement considering  that I'm sure I will never understand men 


IMO jokes about race and violence are never funny/acceptable. (And I hope I'm not opening the door to those kinds of jokes. That is certainly far from my intention)

The text you are quoting:

Really good clever "sexist" and "ethinc" (based on nationality/culture, not race) are funny because they acknowledge the differences


By acknowledging our differences we build understanding. Pretending we are all the same only perpetuates misunderstanding. It's a fact not an opinion that men and woman are different, people from differenct countiries who speak different languages are different. Different is not a value judgement


One of the guys I know who makes the most sexist jokes is probably also the guy who understands woman best, which is quite an achievement considering  that I'm sure I will never understand men 


IMO jokes about race and violence are never funny/acceptable. (And I hope I'm not opening the door to those kinds of jokes. That is certainly far from my intention)


Mia M, Mar 1, 2014 @ 10:10
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 12
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Arun K V, Mar 1, 2014 @ 11:38
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 13

Feb 28, 14 19:19


he is....Tongue Out

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he is....Tongue Out


rena, Mar 1, 2014 @ 11:43
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Post 14

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1322269/?ref_=nv_sr_1


Proving that jokes about age, sex and race CAN be funny when used cleverly and in context.  "Let's call the Dinosaurs Native-American while we're at it" is a line I won't forget in a long time!  


Lighten up, people (that wasn't a joke about colour, either) it's a beautiful day and the sun's out.  Cool

The text you are quoting:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1322269/?ref_=nv_sr_1


Proving that jokes about age, sex and race CAN be funny when used cleverly and in context.  "Let's call the Dinosaurs Native-American while we're at it" is a line I won't forget in a long time!  


Lighten up, people (that wasn't a joke about colour, either) it's a beautiful day and the sun's out.  Cool


Carolyn C, Mar 1, 2014 @ 13:02
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 15

worst racism is against the Gingers, and they all deserve it (charilie and Carolyn in particular)  Surprised


Total Ginger minority and I just love to descriminate against these lot :) Cool


Because they take everything so seriously

The text you are quoting:

worst racism is against the Gingers, and they all deserve it (charilie and Carolyn in particular)  Surprised


Total Ginger minority and I just love to descriminate against these lot :) Cool


Because they take everything so seriously


Dave G, Mar 1, 2014 @ 14:42
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 16

@ Alan: Yes you are making a good point about children. Should we prepare children to be strong and survive the harshness of the world by not protecting them? I am not sure there's a clear response to that question and there's no recipe for a good education. So I believe there are less chances to make mistakes by having a moderate and nuanced approach. In some cases, I would totally agree that children needn't be over protected. In other cases, they might come out as better adults by going through childhood without being bullied and abused either physically or verbally.


@ Alan, Mia and Carolyn: I think you misinterpreted some of the things I wrote.


About humour, here is what I said:


"Getting back now to the question: can we joke about everything? I would say yes. We can be merry, silly, happy and light-hearted even under the worst circumstances. But like with freedom of speech, it is better used with responsibility and awareness. Our words like our actions have consequences."


The continuous flow of sexist jokes on the forum show very little awareness. They CAN be funny but sorry not always.


About differences, I was surprised to read your paragraph about it Mia. I think you wrote a good example of a "package-deal fallacy" (mentally winking at Arun Wink). It is not because I mentioned that human races do not exist or that everybody should be treated equally or that the human brain has no sex or colour (I concede to Alan that it may be grey, of one shade only though and that "thinking with one's dick" is just an expression Wink) that I am denying any differences. On the contrary, I said: "And there’s no reason to be afraid to embrace everyone's differences." On the other hand, it is not because you and I have a vagina that we are the same.

The text you are quoting:

@ Alan: Yes you are making a good point about children. Should we prepare children to be strong and survive the harshness of the world by not protecting them? I am not sure there's a clear response to that question and there's no recipe for a good education. So I believe there are less chances to make mistakes by having a moderate and nuanced approach. In some cases, I would totally agree that children needn't be over protected. In other cases, they might come out as better adults by going through childhood without being bullied and abused either physically or verbally.


@ Alan, Mia and Carolyn: I think you misinterpreted some of the things I wrote.


About humour, here is what I said:


"Getting back now to the question: can we joke about everything? I would say yes. We can be merry, silly, happy and light-hearted even under the worst circumstances. But like with freedom of speech, it is better used with responsibility and awareness. Our words like our actions have consequences."


The continuous flow of sexist jokes on the forum show very little awareness. They CAN be funny but sorry not always.


About differences, I was surprised to read your paragraph about it Mia. I think you wrote a good example of a "package-deal fallacy" (mentally winking at Arun Wink). It is not because I mentioned that human races do not exist or that everybody should be treated equally or that the human brain has no sex or colour (I concede to Alan that it may be grey, of one shade only though and that "thinking with one's dick" is just an expression Wink) that I am denying any differences. On the contrary, I said: "And there’s no reason to be afraid to embrace everyone's differences." On the other hand, it is not because you and I have a vagina that we are the same.


Izzie, Mar 1, 2014 @ 17:05
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 17

I did not misinterpret what you said nor did I disagree with you. I just added my thoughts on the subject to the discussion. Not everything is an arguement. I think that's a seperate thread. ;)


IIRC, I did specificy "good and clever" jokes can add value of a sort. Stupid jokes (on any topic) are just stupid. Of course not everyone knows or cares about the difference and certainly is a matter of opinion. 


Personally, I do not think one can joke about everything. I've never heard a joke about violence nor a rascist joke that is funny. And again, I'm not asking for examples!

The text you are quoting:

I did not misinterpret what you said nor did I disagree with you. I just added my thoughts on the subject to the discussion. Not everything is an arguement. I think that's a seperate thread. ;)


IIRC, I did specificy "good and clever" jokes can add value of a sort. Stupid jokes (on any topic) are just stupid. Of course not everyone knows or cares about the difference and certainly is a matter of opinion. 


Personally, I do not think one can joke about everything. I've never heard a joke about violence nor a rascist joke that is funny. And again, I'm not asking for examples!


Mia M, Mar 1, 2014 @ 19:21
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 18

worst racism is against the Gingers, and they all deserve it (charilie and Carolyn in particular)  Surprised

Total Ginger minority and I just love to descriminate against these lot :) Cool

Because they take everything so seriously


Mar 1, 14 14:42

Baitch!!!!

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Baitch!!!!


Carolyn C, Mar 1, 2014 @ 23:05
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 19

Baitch!!!!


Mar 1, 14 23:05

It's B-I-A -TCH ! 


Or have you been on the sauce again, girl?

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It's B-I-A -TCH ! 


Or have you been on the sauce again, girl?


buzzcocks, Mar 1, 2014 @ 23:50
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Re: On racism, sexism and humour
Post 20
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Casuistik, Mar 4, 2014 @ 02:33
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