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Pros and cons of being a jerk

A professionnal analysis of a subject we discussed a few weeks ago, you might find it interesting:


Many men report that they find modern dating a primarily punishing affair. Changing social norms has allowed few avenues by which they can be both acceptable as a relationship partner and attractive as a sex partner. As a result, at least half of their needs are unfulfilled, regardless of the decision they make.


If men choose to follow social norms and become compliant as "good guys", they may get a "relationship partner". However, due to women's social vs. biological double-bind, these compliant men may also not be "attractive" to those same relationship partners. As a result, they may be punished by their girlfriend's/wife's lack of sexual interest, being cheated on, or disrespected as a "push over". These men may further be regarded as "just friends"—expected to pay for all of the costs of a relationship, without the physical and intimate benefits.


In contrast, if men shun social pressures to be "nice" and follow what is biologically attractive, they have a higher likelihood of getting "sex partners". However, these men are often punished by being socially labeled as "jerks", "players", or even "creeps", unfit for socially-defined relationships. Furthermore, their tactics are often designated as "sexist". Therefore, these men may get sex, but they often do not get love and respect.


Overall, men in either case report also having a difficult time finding what they label "attractive" women for longer-term relationships (...)


Whole article, including "what some men do about it", here.


(Jeremy Nicholson, Why Are Men Frustrated With Dating?)

The text you are quoting:

A professionnal analysis of a subject we discussed a few weeks ago, you might find it interesting:


Many men report that they find modern dating a primarily punishing affair. Changing social norms has allowed few avenues by which they can be both acceptable as a relationship partner and attractive as a sex partner. As a result, at least half of their needs are unfulfilled, regardless of the decision they make.


If men choose to follow social norms and become compliant as "good guys", they may get a "relationship partner". However, due to women's social vs. biological double-bind, these compliant men may also not be "attractive" to those same relationship partners. As a result, they may be punished by their girlfriend's/wife's lack of sexual interest, being cheated on, or disrespected as a "push over". These men may further be regarded as "just friends"—expected to pay for all of the costs of a relationship, without the physical and intimate benefits.


In contrast, if men shun social pressures to be "nice" and follow what is biologically attractive, they have a higher likelihood of getting "sex partners". However, these men are often punished by being socially labeled as "jerks", "players", or even "creeps", unfit for socially-defined relationships. Furthermore, their tactics are often designated as "sexist". Therefore, these men may get sex, but they often do not get love and respect.


Overall, men in either case report also having a difficult time finding what they label "attractive" women for longer-term relationships (...)


Whole article, including "what some men do about it", here.


(Jeremy Nicholson, Why Are Men Frustrated With Dating?)


NisreenApr 4, 2012 @ 04:55
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Re: Pros and cons of being a jerk
Post 1

Interesting, I guess we guys have just one option left, although it isn`t easy:


 



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Interesting, I guess we guys have just one option left, although it isn`t easy:


 


ThomasNL, Apr 4, 2012 @ 08:30
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Re: Pros and cons of being a jerk
Post 2

It seems that women are now increasingly becoming the FIRST to make a move towards the bedroom ... they see what they want and go for it (as social taboos on the issue of casual sex seem to have relaxed certainly in Europe and the US) ... the length of any following relationship is also becoming shorter as a result of the womans disappointment in the targetted mans abilities to change into their "ideal man"... for many women it seems that "perfection is a constant work in progress".


Women have become more socially independant, and more powerful in the work place too, which I'm guessing gives them the confidence to live life as they wish , which includes taking on more traditionally "male" traits such as the sexual predator...


 





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It seems that women are now increasingly becoming the FIRST to make a move towards the bedroom ... they see what they want and go for it (as social taboos on the issue of casual sex seem to have relaxed certainly in Europe and the US) ... the length of any following relationship is also becoming shorter as a result of the womans disappointment in the targetted mans abilities to change into their "ideal man"... for many women it seems that "perfection is a constant work in progress".


Women have become more socially independant, and more powerful in the work place too, which I'm guessing gives them the confidence to live life as they wish , which includes taking on more traditionally "male" traits such as the sexual predator...


 


Charlie, Apr 4, 2012 @ 09:08
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Re: Pros and cons of being a jerk
Post 3

I like the other article linked from that one.  The writer is applying simple economc theory to the dating and mating marketplace.  #4 in Mankiw's list in fact: "People respond to incentives.  Behavior changes when costs or benefits change."


Getting back to the original topic, there are incentives for behaving like a jerk.  If it didn't work, men wouldn't do it.

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I like the other article linked from that one.  The writer is applying simple economc theory to the dating and mating marketplace.  #4 in Mankiw's list in fact: "People respond to incentives.  Behavior changes when costs or benefits change."


Getting back to the original topic, there are incentives for behaving like a jerk.  If it didn't work, men wouldn't do it.


richardm, Apr 4, 2012 @ 12:01
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Re: Pros and cons of being a jerk
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i think this is something happens all around. 



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i think this is something happens all around. 


waqas s, Apr 4, 2012 @ 13:28
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Re: Pros and cons of being a jerk
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richardm, Apr 4, 2012 @ 13:39
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Re: Pros and cons of being a jerk
Post 6

i think this is something happens all around. 


Apr 4, 12 13:28

That cat looks evil.

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That cat looks evil.


Andrew I, Apr 4, 2012 @ 13:39
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Re: Pros and cons of being a jerk
Post 7

I also like this other article


... "Essentially then, some women choose to "attach" to men who are cooperative, agreeable, supportive, and often take their lead in areas the woman finds important. From a cultural standpoint, men who are categorized as "disagreeable," "opinionated," or expect women to "acquiesce" may be considered unappealing as "attachment" partners.


Unfortunately, however, many of those "culturally undesirable" male traits are similar and overlapping with the traits that are biologically "attractive." Although not always true, often the man who is intelligent, high status, and ambitious will be unlikely to take a back seat, follow, and submit in a romantic relationship. Generally speaking, men who have "leadership characteristics" may want to lead in many situations." ...


Very true. And since we cannot change men, maybe it's time for western women to change their perception of male dominant traits? Elsewhere, men are not supposed to be as supportive and caring etc. as we expect them to be here, even though they do care and support of course. Simply because the woman can count on many other people (family, etc.) for that. And probably also, we are too well-off here. In a country where the economy is bad and/or where there is more violence, having a strong, socially well-respected man who can provide for you and ensure you will be alright has much more value, therefore you are more likely to ignore his "bad temper" :)

The text you are quoting:

I also like this other article


... "Essentially then, some women choose to "attach" to men who are cooperative, agreeable, supportive, and often take their lead in areas the woman finds important. From a cultural standpoint, men who are categorized as "disagreeable," "opinionated," or expect women to "acquiesce" may be considered unappealing as "attachment" partners.


Unfortunately, however, many of those "culturally undesirable" male traits are similar and overlapping with the traits that are biologically "attractive." Although not always true, often the man who is intelligent, high status, and ambitious will be unlikely to take a back seat, follow, and submit in a romantic relationship. Generally speaking, men who have "leadership characteristics" may want to lead in many situations." ...


Very true. And since we cannot change men, maybe it's time for western women to change their perception of male dominant traits? Elsewhere, men are not supposed to be as supportive and caring etc. as we expect them to be here, even though they do care and support of course. Simply because the woman can count on many other people (family, etc.) for that. And probably also, we are too well-off here. In a country where the economy is bad and/or where there is more violence, having a strong, socially well-respected man who can provide for you and ensure you will be alright has much more value, therefore you are more likely to ignore his "bad temper" :)


Nisreen, Apr 4, 2012 @ 14:52
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