Oded,

Even when a "No Show" informs the organiser with very little notice this can be a problem especially when restaurant bookings are involved. So I would extend the "No Show" tag to people who send a message , but leave it until the point where the organiser is unable to make changes. For these people receiving a warning will be sufficient.

For "NO Shows" who have failed to inform or apologise after the event (in case the reason is valid) I would prefer to see next to the profile an indication of reliability, so that when receiving a request to attend you will automatically see that this person either needs to make deposit for their place or you can accept their word. If they are able to attend a few activities without problem the indicator can be removed.

I had thought that a positive indicator could be used but I think we should all be treated the same and we are all aware of the people who will always make the effort to attend.


britabroad, May 24, 2007 @ 12:54

what Tinkie said.

And the idea that there is a reliability indicator by the person's name is a good one, too. Everyone could start off at 100%. If they are a no-show, it could drop by a set amount. They can get back to a hundred percent by participating in activities and having the organizer let Admin know. Logistically, this could be a nightmare and I'm actually not too keen on having so many rules/so much structure.

I think that for the most part, the system that we have works really well, especially if augmented by the no-show blacklist that is shared with event organizers. You can't create rules for the exceptions, only the norm.

This is just me thinking out loud...
misskate, May 24, 2007 @ 14:02

also thinking in type here...but what about a review system accessible by organizers similar to something like ebay feedback? perhaps it shows up on the bottom of their profile like a bar or only is viewable by organizers....depends on how obvious you want this to be.
fuzzyshoe, May 24, 2007 @ 14:47

1/ Should we just block these guys from GoL, as they pretty obviously don't care?
NO - those people are just impolite. Agreed, even if they were sick, they could have excused themselves, before or after, one way or another. But can we really "filter" nice and less nice people ? Is it really what we want to do ?


2/ Should we warn them once, and block them if it happens again?
YES - being impolite is something. Abusing can't be tolerated.


3/ Should we "out" them in the forums?
YES&NO - I think this is the organizer’s call. If an organizer email the no shows and get no answer back, I wouldn't be shocked to have him writing "thanks X, Y and Z for not showing up !". But outing bad sheep isn't the wolf’s job to me

4/ Should we add them to the "No Shows" list and make this list available to all Activity Organizers?
YES - that's what has been agreed before


That being said, my opinion is that the whole Member Activities management sytem has to be redesigned, and separated from the regular Inbox part. We should have a sytem where registering can be made automatic, confirmation sent by groups and no shows reported in one click. Member profiles would include, as on Ebay percentages of positive and negative feedback, calculated ie. with nbr of events / no shows + maybe the rating of events they organized. Because someone who's organized 50 activities and failed to show at 2 casual drinks out is not the same case as a newbie registering for a paid in advance dinner and not showing up.

First rough draft; the MA management system could include, on top of actual info, the following specs:

Activity details
- status: temptative, confirmed, full, cancelled, postponed
- minimal and maximal number of places
- registration deadline
- car sharing offered / needed (cf member registration)
- cost
- FAQs

Confirming the activity could be automatically confirmed or marked as full when minimal or maximal numbers are reached, or done manually if weather depending


Registration panel:
- mobile number
- real name
- number of people joining
- need a lift / can give a lift to N poeple from Gva / Lsne
- possible remark: thanks message, allergens, I'll join a bit later, etc.
- question to the organiser (answer goes in FAQ section)
- cancel registration (incl. reason for cancelation)
- upload picture
- give feedback / rate event (publily or anonymously)


Organiser's management panel:
- event status management
- email all registered members
- SMS all registered members (last minute cancellation / change)
- upload pictures of the event
- write review / open feedback post
- report presence /no shows; automatically sends out an invite to give feedback, send pictures or explain reason of no show (standard texts)

This is just a rough idea. Most fields should be optional (no need to car share to join La Terrasse). But dealing with 400 emails sent, 75 answers and so many "maybe I'll come, I'll let you know later", "sorry finally can't make it", "can I bring a friend with" or "could you please call me to explain me the way" takes too much time for many of us to be able to organise more events.

Hope it helps
Hobbes, May 24, 2007 @ 15:04

...and all above comments! Thanks Hobbes 4 ur well structured proposal! BEUSUALLYL8BUTTRY2SHOWUPATLEAST :-)
BEMAD, May 24, 2007 @ 15:31

Thank you for this discussion, and I agree with all the above comments!
....I started having my own black list a while ago, after realizing that it's most of the time the same people which don't show up or canx. at last minute. It really makes me feel bad when I managed to get an entire place just for the one evening.
Some of the so called no-shows have absolutly no respect to the organizers, there is often not a word of appologie, that's the reason why I startet posting the first three letters of the no-shows in the members activities reviewed :-)
SWISS, May 24, 2007 @ 16:24

Ok, this goes beyond the no show problem. But speaking about improvement, I noticed several issues. My main remark would be that, while GOLers meet via the GOL forum, chat or events, as soon as they know each other a bit better, they switch from GOL to MSN and regular mail systems. Links forwarded via GOL are often ignored by some, unless their name is mentionned, and extra private emails have to be used to mind "I am really inviting YOU to come".

For all that, I would suggest to:

- put the activities of the day on the front page ! This is the heart of GOL, it should be visible at first by anyone visiting the site. Why isn't it on the front page ?!?

- having mailing groups, contact lists or SIGs apart from friends list. As discussed before, that would allow members to subscribe to specific mailing lists (sport, opera, pool, cooking, hiking, travel, etc). An event organiser could then tick the appropriate boxes "jazz + drink + geneva" on his event, that would be forwarded automatically to all those members.

- improve the chat function, so people wouldn't need so much external systems:

- improve the mailing system. Allow "reply to all" function and french accentuated characters.

That's it for now.

Hobbes, May 24, 2007 @ 16:51

How many time did I send my personal address, home phone number and instruction on how to arrive to my place by email ?... I can't recall, but many times.

Could we have a private details section on our profile visible to only our (or some specific) friends on our network ? I would spare us inviting each other on MSN friend lists, facebook or similar, or calling friends to get some other friend mobile number I hope.
Hobbes, May 24, 2007 @ 18:11

For each event that you have a few people that are considered possible "No Shows" give the details of the event to the "Extra Shows" without asking for confirmation and everything balances :-)))
britabroad, May 24, 2007 @ 18:56

Friends are alwasy friends. GOL is made to make Geneva friendlier and more open minded... don't get more Swiss than me, pleaaase ! ;-)

Btw, in the Swiss tradition (like many others), there's always an extra plate set on the table for an unexpected guest or hungry lad. So, as long as there's no proper booking, tickets buying or car sharing involved, who could possibly care if you're 51 instead of 50 in a bar ?

Life exemple. I came along with Elena at the previous NMD because we had met at the pool evening and when I told her "I'm leaving now to go to the New Members Drink" she shouted enthousiastically "hey, but I am a new membered. Can I join ?" She had flewn in the day before, was willing to integrate fast and very friendly and open minded... should I have said no, while any veteran can join without registering ? I think that, in that type of cases, common sense rules.
Hobbes, May 24, 2007 @ 19:41

Add french accents to the mails + forums would be useful, I always have to check my messages to be sure I didn't add one in an adress... or signed with my name!
For the no show thing... there are a lot of good ideas there, but attending so few and organizing none of these, I'm not the best one to answer this.
Re(insert an accent there)my
RemyS, May 24, 2007 @ 20:05

absolutely
Minda, May 24, 2007 @ 21:33

i'd hate to see what it looks like when you've thought about it! ;)
Minda, May 24, 2007 @ 21:35

Friends are friends...no matter what, ....remember we live in Switzerland and we are friendly people :-) (the word in german is GASTFREUNDSCHAFT)
SWISS, May 24, 2007 @ 23:44

my friends use this word for no-shows; no-shows are also a big issue for events outside GOL.
Ladies night's from P&G suffer from the same problem, so do the coffee mornings at private schools, and the same thing happens at private parties...

Hope we find a solution! ;-)
SWISS, May 24, 2007 @ 23:48

I preface my comments with an admission - In two of the several activities I organized, someone promised to show up, yet did not show up and did not inform others who waited. So, been there and experienced a bit of the substance of this thread.

My comments...

- Do not block those who are no-shows. One reason to avoid blocking someone is that GoL site is not merely a place to meet interesting minds and unique individuals, it has the potential of being a place to let someone buy, rent, sub-rent, read city guide, get information, etc. This readership can be source of revenue and traffic for GoL in future. If someone is behaving strangely in one aspect of GoL, they can still benefit from GoL in other ways; and GoL can still benefit from this person. Build on the good; make weaknesses irrelevant.

- Another reason to avoid blocking someone: people occasionally can have a serious medical or other emergency. In these few cases, a Scarlet Letter stamped on someone's profile or blocking of the innocent person is unjustified. Isn't it more important to protect the occasional innocent, than to punish every instance of inappropriate behavior?

- Blocking someone is justified when a person is abusing this website, harassing participants, or violating reasonable terms of use. Unless I missed something in the comments so far, I am not yet convinced that multiple no-show is an abuse of the web site, or harassment, or other violation of GoL's terms of use.

What then, could be done about no-show?

No-show is not a new problem. Hospitality industry has dealt with this issue. Perhaps the model that works very well in hospitality industry could be creatively adapted here.

One adaptation: if the event involves upfront, non-cancelable expenses that the event organizer can not write off (or split between the participants), the event organizer should let each participant know that he or she will be confirmed if and only if they agree to pay such and such amount whether they show-up or not. If they agree, confirm them and count them in. If they do not agree, keep the opportunity open for someone else.

colorado, May 25, 2007 @ 00:23

I really wish there were an easier way to quote text on here.
You said:
- Another reason to avoid blocking someone: people occasionally can have a serious medical or other emergency. In these few cases, a Scarlet Letter stamped on someone's profile or blocking of the innocent person is unjustified. Isn't it more important to protect the occasional innocent, than to punish every instance of inappropriate behavior?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't think that anyone would suggest that we block someone because of a true emergency. And the system that is being suggested is not some automated computer system, it's a system run by human beings who, although, flawed, can make the judgement calls and distinctions between not showing up with no notice and not showing up with no notice but for good reason.
I agree with you that it is more important to allow a few rude people slip through the cracks than punish the worthy.
misskate, May 25, 2007 @ 11:30

Deap breth in, slow breath down... relax ! :-)

I brought once a new member with me after the "newbies hours", is that a problem ? Do you find it rude ? I find the use of that word a little bit strong for such a case. Coming to a private formal dinner with an unexpected guest is somehow impolite. Poping in a public place like a bar is something different, isn't it ?

Figures:
- "NEW MEMBERS JOINING EACH DAY (average) 32"
- monthly NMD are full at 20 poeple

(32x30) - 20 = 940 newbies unable to attend the next NMD each month... no wonder some overpass the rules, is it ?

For all that, thaks god you would never ever make someone feel unwelcome, just because they can't follow some procedure. I encourage you to keep on that track !

Hobbes, May 25, 2007 @ 12:03

To be honest, I fear that the NMDs rules might apear a bit too strict to be really friendly and really helping the community. We want to make people feel welcome, don't we ? Ok, you can't integrate 300 people at the same time (can't you ?). But why has it got to be only 20 ? Why is it monthly ? How would you react of some other veterans would organise their own MNDs nights ? Have you got the exclusivity on GOL NMDs franchise ? Looks like to me, and many.

I have, as a matter of fact, many times received emails from people who wanted to join one of my event that were asking "This would be my first GOL event and I've never been abble to join an NMD before, is it a problem ?". I obviously allways welcome them. But no one can deny that there is, in the air, for some newbies, that a NMD is a compulsory stage in joining the community.

On a strictly personal note finaly, I have the impression that you take it much too personally. Meaning, one, self-centered; NMDs look more and more as "Sherri's NMDs" than "GOL NMDs". Second: too emotionaly. It reminds me of your chickening out when some other volunteers you asked for suggested you some management improvement... and got fired on the spot. Who are you doing NMDs for ? Newbies, GOL as a community, or yourself ? Some might start to wonder.

Thanks in advance for your answer
Hobbes, May 25, 2007 @ 12:12

Remember, we are not talking about poeple how got kidnapped by space aliens or left for dead for any other reason. I'm not even talking about hoses how called 2 minutes before or emailed the next day. We are talking here about people that registered, got and read a confirmation message, connected to GOL after the event the didn't sent any message to excuse themself, plus finally didn't answer SiteAdmin's email or in a very lightweight form... this, to me, is abuse.
Hobbes, May 25, 2007 @ 12:28

Hi Hobbes

I think the posts are getting a bit too personal, so lets try to keep on subject and keep the personal differences aside.

I think its pretty clear that we love Sherri, and appreciate all of the time and effort she puts into welcoming the Newbies and organizing the New Member Drinks.

The NMDs were Sherri's idea, and I think she does a great great job.

Throughout the time that Sherri has been organizing the NMDs, I have seen a few people complaining about the way she manages the NMDs, but I have yet to see someone who is willing to take the initiative and organize something similar.

As you said Hobbes, there are more newbies joining each week than Sherri can handle, so if Sherri has found that its easier for new people to feel comfortable in a more intimate enviornment (20-30 people) than in a huge free for all, then there is alot of room for others to organize activities for newbies too.

Im not trying to berate you Hobbes, as I know you organize a ton of activities and help alot of people feel welcome.

Im just saying that instead of critisizing Sherri for feeling some ownership for something she initiated and which she puts alot of time and effort into, let's give Sherri credit for what she does, and if someone has different ideas about how to welcome the Newbies, they can easily organize their own newbies oriented activities.

Oded
SiteAdmin Oded, May 25, 2007 @ 13:38

You "have yet to see someone who is willing to take the initiative and organize something similar" ? Stay tuned. With your benedition, I'm sure we'll find volunteers to get more NMDs organised really soon. Volunteers please raise your hand !

And for all that, I never denied the fact that Sherri is gooding a hell of a job since long. No personal revenche or polemic searched here. I'm just trying to help enhance GOL, as on every other above post. But the fact is that NMDs are Sherri's business so far. So one cannot speak about the former without mentionning the later. Hope it's clearer now.
Hobbes, May 25, 2007 @ 14:08

at other events I have attended she is the first one to come over to me...and make me feel so welcome and I have seen her do the same for countless others. I really can't believe what I have just read... Keep doing what you do best sweetie and if it isn't broken don't fix it...
kitcat, May 25, 2007 @ 14:32

go in the back with you, when you asked. It wasn't "meet my mom" after all, it was lashing. :-)

More seriously, you do a wonderful job with NMD event. Thank you. Say my hello to your boyfriend.

colorado, May 25, 2007 @ 14:56

This is a very relevant evidence to me! And I love the all points you arised! BEBRO :-)
GOLers, be pro-active and try to keep focus on new activities (this is what we need..."walk the talk" and not "talk the walk"!) and above all BE MAD! :-)
BEMAD, May 25, 2007 @ 15:50

if many agree with the above "multiple no-show is abuse" sentiment.

I am still not convinced that this behavior is an abuse of the web site.

I consider spamming as abuse of the web site. I consider posting someone's private information (full name, home address, phone number, etc.) on the web site without their prior permission as abuse of the web site. We can come up with other illustrations. The relevant question for us to consider: is no-show equivalent to spamming through this web site? Is no-show equivalent to violating someone's privacy through this web site?

I agree that no-show behavior is inappropriate and can be annoying. But, is blocking and labelling an appropriate response? Instead of retaliation and eye-for-an-eye behavior, is there a compassionate, polite and creative way to address this? Is blocking and labelling good for the goals and needs of GoL web site?

What do we want from GoL? What is the vision and passion that inspires us here...

I am as yet unconvinced that blocking and labelling is the appropriate response.
colorado, May 25, 2007 @ 16:01

Sherri, shall we vote 4 it...I WANT YOU! :-)
In Italy we use 2 say: "Winning Team cannot be changed!" and I think that you have being organizing the best NMDs ever! :-)
Your formula perfectly works since all NBs joining it always get from ur event the real GOL spirit as well as their first friends to add to their respective Network! That is simply amazing it can happen every time with just few drinks and ur lovely smiling! :-)
BEMAD, May 25, 2007 @ 16:04

I will not go into the side debate that this post as generated, but since I am one of the people that organizes events on GOL (and used to do even more so before having what can be called a 'life' - no offense to anyone!!) I am going to give you my 2 cents on the topic.

First answering your questions:

Should we just block these guys from GoL, as they pretty obviously don't care? NO, GOL has other functions then events (even if events might be the main one) and I'd make a distinction between no-shows. Unless these people owe money to somone due to repetitive no shows .. no need to bann them, warn the organizer so they know NOT to count on them!!

Should we warn them once, and block them if it happens again? Warning -> GOOD. Blocking no. Find some other way of discourage people from no shows.

Should we "out" them in the forums? No, to the organizer, if they ask. I;d make a list of No Shows available upon request and advertise that so whoever organize an event can check who are the usual no show.

Now that your question are answered will move on to the much hotter topic of:
is NOT showing up a Rude thing to do, how bad and in which occasions.

There are few occasions where i find a NO Show without an excuse not acceptable
- Events at other people houses
- Events with limited seats/places
- Restaurants dinner that have been booked
- Going to the movies in some cases
- More in general whenever something has to be booked/reserverd/ has limited seats or a special price has been negotiated due to the number of partecipant.

The way i deal with this at work is comunicating everyone what the deal is and making all aware that if they are not going to show up they'll owe their part of the money anyway, unless they really had an emergency (sick, hospital, broke a leg, flight was late). Unfortunatelly here at work all the events i organize have a 'price tag' so i don't know any other way of dealing with no shows when there are limited seats or things like that. Accounting for them, and not letting them to the next event if they fail to notify the organizer before (in extreme cases after is still ok) .. is my other alternative.

One of the worse experience i had was when i helped a friend to organize a movie activity (He was sick and the organizer and i went there instead of him) and no one showed up. I wanted to see the movie, and i had was so nice to wait outside the movie theater till after the movie started and no on showed up. MY new way of dealing with it??
Fidning at least 1 person that will for sure come and for eveyrone else .. telling them that i won't wait. Rude? Maybe.

I also organize lots of afterwork drinks/youngsters evening etc etc. And at the last youngster evening ... there were 40 ppl signed up and only 20 showed up. Valentine's party? 70 booked, and 30 showed up.
My reaction really varies between totally indifferent to completely MAD, depending on the deal i have with the bar. If I have booked the whole place for 70 ppl, got a special deal and half of the bar for us .. i feel ashamed when people don't show up. Cause the bar owner will not trust me again when organizing another party. What i tried once not on GOL was giving money as deposit to book the place and telling everyone that they'd have to pay their quota of deposit money if they didn't show up. It limited the # of No Shows ..but ... doesn't work with strangers.
If I just booked a couple of tables or I am organizing a drink in a open place or a bar where i haven't reserved .. I honestly stopped caring about no shows. THey don't wanna come? they are missing out. I didn't miss any of my 'commitments' to the bar/resto/club owner and me and the others can have fun.

Not really prolific with ideas today but it's 4pm on a friday!!

Hoiling, May 25, 2007 @ 18:27

i also find the quality of the meetings enhanced by being around 20 people, which is why i tend to keep the numbers low at my tuesday drinks. you get to talk to more people and the exchanges are much more interesting. and i think that whoever organises an event should be master of how it takes place (which also includes where and how often).

go Sherri! ;)
Minda, May 25, 2007 @ 20:47

using someone else exact event format and name is never too nice, especially when regular .. events. This said, whoever wants to welcome activity is free to do so, don't call it a NMD ! I don't see the issue...

Hoiling, May 25, 2007 @ 21:08

If you want to organize Activities for newbies, I think that's great.

I'm pretty sure you will be able to come up with a different name than New Member Drinks though.

Why call it by a name that is already being used by someone else?

Minda organizes the Tuesday drinks, Pikachu organizes the Motorcycle club, Swiss organizes the Over 40's drinks... - why is it such a problem that Sherri organizes the New Member Drinks?

As I said, there are enough Newbies for everyone, and enough original names for the activities so we don't have to fight over names already being used.

Have a great weekend.

Oded
SiteAdmin Oded, May 25, 2007 @ 22:12

Guessing you also meant LOL Was 'Laughing Out Loud' earlier too? Lots of Laughs, indeed...??!
Lots of Love seems to have long gone out the window, but I still remember those days..
You remember Ethel of Eastenders? Always mixing her expressions?....ROFL

SimSim, May 25, 2007 @ 23:20

right you are, Oded! (nt)
Minda, May 26, 2007 @ 01:15

ideas on Member Activities management system from Hobbes. Agree with the concept, agree with the approach. Also agree with many bullets suggested.

Building on Hobbes ideas, the member profile page could also be redesigned to help the event organizers and the goals of GoL.

The features could make GoL unique and distinctive when compared with facebook, myspace and others.
colorado, May 26, 2007 @ 08:04

check out the Aquapark and Karting under Member Activities reviewed
Wayne is spitting out the dictionary he swallowed on contemporary social abbreviations..
ROFL - rolling on the floor laughing
SimSim, May 26, 2007 @ 14:53

"but I have yet to see someone who is willing to take the initiative and organize something similar"

Almost a year ago Sherri put a call out for volunteers to help with and offer suggestions for NMD. Around nine people showed up and after one meeting we were told we weren't needed.

But this is besides the point. No shows are a fact of life whether at a party, a wedding or doctor's office...and sometimes they're necessary. The general rule of thumb is to expect a 20% no show and for those functions that require absolute participation, a gratuity of good faith (refundable for participants) could be asked so at least the person organising is compensated someway and the expected participant is reprimanded. Compassion and flexibility should obviously be available for both sides to maintain the community spirit with which the event was hosted for in the first place.
Riley, May 26, 2007 @ 23:37

Hi all,

I just start reading the forums here since quite long.
I have started organizing a few events in January and I find that usually 30% of people do not come. But they never imply prepayment.
Had some people coming without notice, but good old friendly faces are always welcome.

I consider in my number of comers a 30% off. This roughly indicates how much people come. And it proved rather good indicator so far.

And as well, there is an intermediate status: the people that MAY come. They would like to, but have other obligations, so I consider them half in the original number.

When I organize wine tasting in my place, it seems good up to around 12, after it is a little difficult to circulate.

Guillaume

GuillaumeTel, May 28, 2007 @ 14:25

Seems that this side of the discussion has been neglected. WHat do you think about those ideas ? Want some more feedback, or are you fed up already ;-)
Hobbes, May 29, 2007 @ 14:46

Hey Hobbes

We're both reading this with interest.

You guys have raised some good ideas, and Im waiting for more ideas from more people before I make any commitments.

Come on folks, How should we deal with No Shows?

Oded
SiteAdmin Oded, May 29, 2007 @ 19:22

I think most organisers assume there will be some no shows and plan for it. The problenm is that the no shows range so widely, from 0% to 50% (yes, happens), that it's really hard to plan for them.

It's especially critical for activities that require a certain number of people (ie reserving movie tickets or resto places).

We're thinking of a system that allow people to RSVP on line, and then flags members who RSVPed but did not show up, cos we're starting to think that without some 'stick' involved, no shows keep getting in the way.

what think?
Nir Ofek, May 31, 2007 @ 18:48

Glad you're considering that option
Hobbes, May 31, 2007 @ 19:47

add the RSVP feature. Perhaps, when a person clicks on the RSVP button - a message window could come up (just like the way it does, when you add someone to your GoL network.) The message box could inform the participant whatever the event organizer would like to inform the interested member. Some suggestions:

- You are confirming your participation in this event. Most events have limited number of spots available. By confirming, you are taking one of those spots.
- GoL strongly discourages no-show behavior.
- GoL encourages you to inform your event organizer at least 3 days in advance if your circumstances are likely to prevent you from attending the event (so that a substitute participant can be found). Last minute cancellations are discouraged and we ask that, in any case, you contact the event organizer by SMS message or a phone call if you will be a no-show.
- If you confirm and then do a no-show, your behavior and name may be flagged for future event organizers.

colorado, May 31, 2007 @ 21:13

I like it very much. nt
Nir Ofek, May 31, 2007 @ 22:53

TonyT / Translator / Others... here is one of the several past discussions. By replying to this thread, I hope to make it current and more easy to find in your browsers.

In this thread, quite a few members and Activity Organizers write about some form of blocking of repeat no-shows, outting, profile or private reliability score (= reputation system), etc. A read through this thread confirms that the concerns and comments are real, broad and diverse. For accepting these concerns and comments, then striving to improve Glocals, the Site Administrators are being responsive to members. Thanks guys.

Back to the issue at hand... 6+ months later, I still believe

1. Blocking / labeling / rating system would not be good for members, or for Glocals.com

2. RSVP features would be nice

3. Make the profile page of everyone more extensive, with each member having 100% freedom on whether he or she completes the profile page completely or partially or nothing except the login name. The member should also have 100% freedom to set their default chat setting, make what is visible to their friends and what is visible to the entire Glocals community. The member should also be able to post multiple pictures of themselves, their families, kids, pets, whatever; or post no picture at all. My reason: We are all unique human beings and how we relate in reality to society around us. On-line social networks should adapt and reflect our diverse temperaments, style, preferences, privacy, extrovert and introvert natures... and the Jungian/Myer-Briggs shifts each journeys through in the wonder of life.

I believe that a comment or post-it section on profile page would make profile pages more dynamic and fun... see other comments on the Feedback forum. It is important that the member have the freedom to delete any comments posted on his or her profile page. For this to work, the member should be able to opt-in to receive email message from Glocals.com that someone has posted a comment on his or her profile.

Have good face-to-face meetings with Site Adminstrators. I have enjoyed the one face-to-face meeting I had with them at Sherri's NMD.

Season's greetings and best regards.
colorado, Dec 25, 2007 @ 12:48

Thanks to you I have a better idea of the history of the "no-shows" debate within Glocals.
Translator, Dec 25, 2007 @ 14:28

Excellent thread and thank you colorado
TonyT, Dec 25, 2007 @ 23:16

How about setting up a rep(reputation) system wherein the person gets repped for attending an event for which they have registered?

The number of the events attended against the number of events registered can be shown in the user profile, maybe even smthing like an attendence percentage (like a reliability meter) can be shown... This ways, ppl can draw there own conclusions as to how reliable that person is.
kimerton, Dec 26, 2007 @ 01:31

Its took me almost an hour to go thru the whole thread!!
NO SHOWS are always disappointing, especially when you have a restaurant booked for 50 people and 40 show up. It happened at my LAST SUPPER. 52 registered, but just 40 of them showed up. At the same time there were about 8 unregistered members who joined the event. So eventually it balanced up. But what pisses me off is that none of these people have the courtesy to call/sms and inform that they are not joining...
As far as the GOL NMD is concerned, Zurich has is own NMM (New members meet)
Its held on the last Wednesday of every month. What I do is book the whole bar. Event starts at 7pm and the oldies can join from 9pm onwards..
I don't ask them to register in particular. These newbies also get some potential new members along. They all just show up. Until now it has worked fine.

Can GOL now have something similar?? Just a curious question/suggestion. None of my business though or no intentions of interfering...

Cheers
Ehsaan
Ehsaan, Dec 26, 2007 @ 13:24

I confess, I've been a no show on at least two occasions. I did make contact after the fact (a tapa event I visited with way too many people for me after a long day at work where I sent a note stating the same, and another that Bustan organized, I did however apologize personally. I don't believe anyone was financially burdened.

At the CC events it's an open door policy so I got no bones to pick. We do RSVP for the Culinary Club, cuz we don't want to get slammed, and while there are no shows there's always been more than enough people to make the evening work at the squat.

While I haven't read the entire thread here, I think where money's involved you gotta let people know ahead of time with a 'cancellation policy or no show policy' and hope it doesn't put your audience off. Without getting to 'ebay ish' a simple RSVP when money commitments are made would weed out the weenies.
In the beginning was the chicken. Perhaps a new 'Ghost Appearence' section, with points for good works? If someone blows their RSVP then we can turn their profile picture into a ghost for a few days, have some laughs and move on.

berlin, Dec 29, 2007 @ 21:43

This is off subject but, I like to think that the activities are extensions of their organizer(s). Do musicians write songs, perform and then freely allow others to use the same title and melody? I appreciate Sherri's position.

Recently a friend started using the moniker 'Conversation Cafe' in Zurich. At first I was really pissed, no discussion, no 'do you mind if I use your project name'... Then I remembered that 'imitation is the highest form of flattery'. Fact is I wrote my friend and requested collaboration, not just imitation.

To clear things up there just needs to be a 'first use' policy. nothing to draconian. replication of successful activities should be encouraged from an artistic (social) viewpoint. It's what makes our activities compelling, not generic!
berlin, Dec 29, 2007 @ 22:09

Hi guys.

This has been mentioned before, but Ill repeat it here cause I think its important.

Organizing activities for new members and making them feel welcome is one of the best ways to keep the glocals community fresh, and to ensure that new members become active members, and enjoy their time in Switzerland.

Any member who wants to organize activities for newbies is welcome to do it, and will get any assistance he/she needs from us.

If anyone out there is not organizing newbie activities because of some misguided argument about the activity name, here are a few suggestions for alternative names which will not cause an international trademark uproar:
New Member Mixer
New Member Meet
New Member Get Together
Intro Drinks
New Fish Drinks
New Member (insert word here...)

There is no shortage of names, and no shortage of newbies - just choose a date, choose a venue, choose a name - and start having a good time.

Thanks, and happy new year

Oded

SiteAdmin Oded, Dec 31, 2007 @ 11:01

is already taken in Zurich!!

But, I think, glocals should HAVE 1 GLOBAL name to welcome the newbies!!

What do you guys think??

Cheers
E
Ehsaan, Dec 31, 2007 @ 12:02

Hi Ehsaan.

One global name for New Member Intro activities is an interesting idea.

I think it would be great if every city had a few regular 'New Member Mixers' (my favorite name so far) going on every month, and I think a global name would be nice, and would make it easier to understand.
But, an official name (and format?) might be too exclusive, and lead to people fighting about who has the right to organize 'official' newbie activities under the global name.

Idealy, we will be able to work with the active members in each city, and get some more local newbie activities going on.

You do the New Members Meet in Zurich, and Im sure you do it a bit differently than the way Sherri did the NMDs.
What is your view on this Ehsaan? Should Newbie activities be in a certain format, or should they just be anything that is open to newbies?

Thanks

Oded

SiteAdmin Oded, Dec 31, 2007 @ 13:14

Oded,

From my personal experience, I think there should be no specific format except for the fact that the newbies come in a bit earliar.

I understand everybody has to work and there are always some last minute things popping up. For the same reason and many more, I book the entire place with some good deal on drinks for the glocalers.

I think rather than keeping it strict and following a format, if we just make it easy on the newbies, oldies and the goldies it will benefit the newbies. The oldies can share their experience and give tips to the newbies...This is what I think in Zurich...
I don't know how different could it be in Geneva....

Happy new year friends
Cheers
Ehsaan
Ehsaan, Jan 1, 2008 @ 10:00

I will preface my suggestions with few comments.

First, it seems impractical and unusual that every new activity organizer needs to pick a unique name. It seems impractical because imagine Glocals in 50 cities someday and then imagine having to pick a different name for new member intro event for each city.

Second, if someone is strangely serious about copyrighting a name... they misunderstand the law and the origins of copyright law. Names, titles, and short phrases or expressions are not subject to copyright protection. Even if a name, title, or short phrase is distinctive or if it lends itself to a play on words, it cannot be protected by copyright. Copyright protection under the copyright code of various countries extends only to original works of authorship. Even brand trademark registrations require that the applicant overcome certain hurdles. In summary, copyright issues do not apply to naming an Activity.

Does this mean all new member activities should have the same name? Answer: No.
Does this mean new activities should not have a unique name? Answer: No.

Organizers can certainly have their own creative name. It is up to them. It is preferable. However, if an organizer wants to adopt a popular and easy name that members can easily recognize, Glocals.com can make the events easy to differentiate and recognize. To that end, here are some suggestions

1. Automatically add the suffix "by [login name of Activity Organizer]"; for example, New Member Drinks by sherri; New Member Drinks by summermind; New Member Drinks by xyz123.

or

2. Automatically add the suffix "in [city name]" to the name; for example, New Member Drinks in Geneva; New Member Drinks in Zurich; New Member Drinks in Basel.

For regular and repeat Activities, an easy to recognize name will be useful to all members.
colorado, Jan 1, 2008 @ 21:22

my perspective. I found Sherri's format to be creative, well thought and effective.

If most members in a community are new or strangers, a format-less format is likely to work. On the other hand, if the number of veterans far exceed the number of newbies, Sherri's format is more effective (for me).

To paraphrase the lyrics of Byrds (and their source Ecclesiastes)

To everything, there is a season
And a time for every purpose under the heaven

A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to break down, a time to build up

A time to laugh, a time to weep
A time to dance, a time to mourn

A time to love, a time to hate
A time of war, a time of peace

a time to keep silence, and a time to speak
A time for strict rules, and a time for no rules.........

:-)
colorado, Jan 1, 2008 @ 21:45

Whatever an event is called, I think it is very important to know whether the organizer is being paid or receiving part of the proceeds. In the case of the Conversation Cafes, Berlin is very clear about what happens to the money. The same was true of the Xmas party.

If people are talking about copyright, it seems to me that money might be involved. Is this the case? Do Glocals members have the right to organize events that they make money from? Whatever the case, I think it should be clear...
Translator, Jan 1, 2008 @ 23:11

an open forum like the one reviewing the events, set up (orignally posted) by the creator of the event that would list the attendees, registered and showed, effectively listing the no shows without branding them would be a good way of allowing them the ability to comment and say sorry or what ever might be appropriate. This would also create a history of attendance. Again without branding, ranking or anything else. It is open so comments will be seen by everyone. Also if organizors wanted to keep a private, list then maybe this will allow them to know more about the history, and possible the character. If a person misses but shows up to say sorry or what have you, it may carry weight. No strikes, not ratings, nothing but pure open information. Maybe that would be a way of dealing with the worries of event creators?
TonyT, Jan 7, 2008 @ 15:28

an open forum like the one reviewing the events, set up (orignally posted) by the creator of the event that would list the attendees, registered and showed, effectively listing the no shows without branding them would be a good way of allowing them the ability to comment and say sorry or what ever might be appropriate. This would also create a history of attendance. Again without branding, ranking or anything else. It is open so comments will be seen by everyone. Also if organizors wanted to keep a private, list then maybe this will allow them to know more about the history, and possible the character. If a person misses but shows up to say sorry or what have you, it may carry weight. No strikes, not ratings, nothing but pure open information. Maybe that would be a way of dealing with the worries of event creators?
TonyT, Jan 7, 2008 @ 15:29

imitation....
Geneva is NMD
Zurich is NMM

Cheers
E
Ehsaan, Jan 7, 2008 @ 18:04

Well explained by TonyT.

To build on this - Clicking on Activity Reviews takes the reader to all past posted Activities. Along with original description, one can see all that TonyT suggests, who attended and comments/gossip/discussion. On this page, attach or provide link to Pictures from the event. Let any attendee post their pictures into that Activity Review page.

Include an option to report any offending picture for SiteAdmin to consider for deletion; Glocals can reduce OVHD by avoiding using SiteAdmin's quality time to receive emails, download images from email, review them and then repost to Glocals.

Save this information for 5+ years. Future members can review the past Activities page. Future Activity Organizers can review for ideas on activities and details appreciated by members. Could be quite useful to communities in future cities where Glocals expands.

These review pages may make fence sitters to join the community, significantly increasing member count.

The Activity Review page could also carry context specific ads to generate revenues for Glocals. I know a few members have objections at Glocals pursuing revenues, profit, award nominations and such reasons. I disagree with these members. Revenue and profits are wonderful and romantic... but, that is another thread!
colorado, Jan 7, 2008 @ 18:17

I suggest to "stay democratis as much as we can", because that is - the most important policy of a day.
I agree with Tanky. But even more - just if it happens enough times to see it as not-circumstantial case only then- put that people TEMPORARILY, if they don't improve - to the "NO SHOW" category. I am not sure if explanations should be obbligatory - it could be really embarrassing and personal especially in the "respectable" cases.
I am very much of an "organizer and ethician" by myself, though.
Good luck with your final decision!
HelenaTravel, Jan 8, 2008 @ 00:12

You really seem to be able to put things together. I do not mean to post just to admire but the way your mind works is really impressive. You seem to alway see the paths and options so clearly.
TonyT, Jan 8, 2008 @ 10:38

Fresh Fish - BRILLIANT!! After the huge discussion on what the new name for this event should be, I see Lolly will be hosting a Fresh Fish drinks for the newbies. Love the name, if I were new, it alone would have me interested. I also like the idea of it being a truly NEW members drinks with just a handful of veterans. Nothing against Sherri or the way she organised her NMD event but I remember the one I went to being more of a free for all, (far more veterans than newbies) which if you are at all on the shy side (like me :-)) can be a bit overwhelming.
Lolly, very good to you with your event!
Lannah, Jan 9, 2008 @ 02:38

Thanks dear!! These are kind and encouraging words!
Iolly, Jan 9, 2008 @ 23:26

I notice that the fact of bringing up the subject is yielding the first results. "No shows" can have many reasons, from illness to a change in plans, but unawareness of the consequences is certainly an important element. It is also the easiest to sweep away by stating the facts openly and respectfully.
Elisabeth L, Jan 13, 2008 @ 19:44

Hi,

I'm not an organizer in Glocals but I have organized "fun" events for my former company. I think before you make the steps to ostracize or "out" people you will need to make clear policies for the events and how they are advertised. For example there needs to be a clear distinction between events that are "reservation only" and "show-up if you want". Sometimes when people see an event that has a attendance limit they sign-up to hold their spot but are not fully committed to going. They need to know a sign-up is a commitment to go. If there is a monetary cost for them not attending then they should know up-front that if they sign-up and don't show they will be responsible for the cost (that should deter lots of no-shows). Also dates for commitment and backing-out should be given. One more thing, as an attendee, I'd like to see an "almost full" signal so I don't wait longer to decide to commit.
Maplady, Feb 23, 2008 @ 16:26

Chatting this evening to another regular event organiser, he suggested a "reliability index".  We all start with a full 'green bar'.  When you say you are going to an event, the organiser afterwards can tick or cross you, so to speak.  Your reliability index goes up, or down, or from green to orange to red, depending on how reliable you have proven to be. 

Kiriel
Kiriel, Feb 28, 2008 @ 00:40

Well, having had quite a few occasions when there have been "no shows" recently, I thought I'd chuck my thoughts into the pot.

I suppose the first thing is to determine if it's an event where it doesn't really matter if there is a no show. As in "we're going to be here, just turn up".

When it gets to meeting somewhere, and then waiting as a group for someone before moving somewhere else, it's a pain if someone has said they're coming and then don't even bother to tell you they're not going to make it - whatever the reason. Just some communication at least.

It may be just thoughtless, or maybe just selfish, but either way, some sort of "etiquette" needs to be established so that others are not kept waiting. Maybe all members need to be aware of a set of "expectations" regarding events and what they're supposed to do if they can't make it ?

If someone's booked a table / place, and the organizer has to pay, I think the no show should either pay or be "blacklisted" in some way. Sometimes of course there are genuine reasons so that could be sorted out with the organizer.

As an organizer, as well as someone who attends other events, we are open to feedback, good or bad, on what we organize, justified or not. As someone who attends events, I think we should also be open to feedback from organizers, on whether we let them down or not, without a reasonable explanation.

I think a system such as the one used by E-bay would be ideal. If we let someone down once, we're not condemned forever, but if there's a pattern of letting people down the organisers can look at the risk and simply refuse to accept someone on their events.

There you go, no more ranting from me.........

Paul
paulpspencer, Feb 28, 2008 @ 14:43