Well do the Americans know that every second working in Switzerland is a foreigner, why blame Swiss? :-)

My sister, who has a nice tanned appearance like me, says similar things used to happen to here when she first arrived in Switzerland 20 years ago. Her husband, who is a 'whitey' would get served before her in shops.

I have never found this during the 4 different periods I have spent here. But having met a few people through glocals now I am surprised at how many of the ills in Switzerland are automatically ascribed to foreigners. Beggars, crime, loud noise at night. When people I know mention this to me now, I say "You really hate foreigners" - they know I'm taking the mickey out of them.

I don;t think that is racism. I am going to Swiss at least 2 times every year, stay for month or at least few weeks every time, and never for past 10 years had any bad expirience.

I just read some of the articles. As usual even the shop owner didn't even really apologize. "We don't have face recognition in Switzerland." Which means "We only serve rich black people". The most annoying thing is that a Swiss business will rarely if ever really apologize and acknowledge poor service. The servive mentatlity is still for the most part. "If you don't like it, there are still plenty of other (swiss) customers who do, so we don't need your business." It's really time everyone just voted with their wallets and feet. The only thing that Swiss businesses eventually ever understand is CHF one way or another.

P.S. so far the best, most amazing answer I've gotten was at the Luzerner City Run, where the registration options (for the same fees) include a 5k for men but only 3k for women athletes. I asked the registration youngster some clueless 20 year old boy, why my friend can't run the 5k too. He says, well that's the rules of this race (heavily sponsored by Migros by the way) and he says, "Well she knew that that was the race length anyway when she registered. If she wants to run a 5k, she should run in another race."

It's really a bad image for Luzern and "Innenschweiz". Then when I received the participant satisfaction survey from the organizers I politely mentioned this point. Do you think I got any kind of answer back. Nawwwww.

Well I've lived in Switzerland for almost two years and I've always heard about racism here not even targeted at skin colour but everyone from a poorer country even within Europe.

The head of Human Resource where I work (swiss national of course) told a Romanian employee "to not forget where she comes from" during salary negotiations. This is despite the fact that she's lived in Switzerland for almost 20years and also has an Italian passport.

And then there's my personal experience. I flew on swiss air to Dubai a couple of weeks ago and was on the Business Class queue to check in at the Geneva Airport. I had my ticket printed and my passport ready for bag drop. The first thing the guy at the counter asked me, without even looking at my ticket was "am you sure you're flying Business Class"? to which I replied "do I look like I shouldn't be flying Business Class?". I'm Black by the way. He went on and on about how they have to ask each and every customer that because sometimes people get on the wrong queue blah blah blah. Which is pure BS course he definitely did not ask the white middle aged guy in front of me that.

Like Oprah, I took the high road and just ignored the BS but it was quite upsetting to be honest.

That said, there is racism everywhere not just here I suppose. Is it worse here, probably not. But its here. Thats for sure.

That's a pity. I've always enjoyed flying with Swiss because I find them so polite. I'm not sure, but maybe the check-in staff are Swissport not Swiss.

I'm amazed about these attitudes in Geneva, where there is such a large international community of people.

Hahahaha, she should of bought the whole shop and fire the staff !!!

Tina Turner - cool attitude, lovely lady, who loves Switzerland, has become a resident, got married here.  Happens to be black and famous.

Oprah Winfrey - loud, obnoxious American, with major bad-attitude-chip-on-shoulder, visiting Zurich, who points her fingers at you when she speaks and probably sprouted a few "Do you know who I AM?".  Happens to be black and famous.

Racist? I'm sure if she got "her good friend" Tina to go buy it for her, she'd be the owner of a very nice 35k handbag by now. 

This all being said, I have also had many good experiences here as well. Especially with Swiss. In th end it does come down to the individuals I guess, not a company or a country.

And on the other hand, do we know that the shop assistant was Swiss? Didn't Oprah (racistly) assumed so I guess. They could have been German, French, Italian or any other nationality or combination thereof, right?

hahahahaha, that is really funny, But you can't blame a country because of a small incident happens in a shop or in least case because of a "shop keeper". Somebody stole money from my pocket while travelling in america. So it means i build my precpetion just because of a single incident about that country. 

Switzerland is a great country, Things could happen everywhere, 

Going by Oprah's atrocious attempt at a "Swiss" accent, I would say the assistant was from either Wales or Pakistan.  Not sure which.....

I don't think the Swiss realise how poor their reputation is in the rest of the world in this respect.

Just looking at some of the US news feeds and one observation is how embarassing it must be in a high end store not to recognise one of the most influential people in the US who has a yearly income of 357 million dollars...ouch!

That said, I find the general standard of service here crap. I've just got back from a month in NY and was amazed at how friendly, solicitous and helpful people in shops are. It took me a week to get used to being back here where you almost feel like you're being a bother when you ask a shop assistant for help.

I get your point... but I'm quite sure that a man could not have run the 3k race...

So, I guess you can blame it on a lack of flexibility, but hopefully not on some chauvinistic principle...

And the fee helps to cover the organisation cost... the fact that you run 3 or 5k is not much of a factor there...

So basically, the answer of this "clueless" 20 years old wasn't that bad: this race was designed for men who want to run 5K and for women who want to run 3K... no more, no less.

Now, if we follow your logic, and we open the 5K race to the women, then we should open the 3K race to the men... Guess who'll never get a medal?

Carolyn, I love how you've tried to negate a story about racial stereotypes by employing an American stereotype.  Do you think you are somehow better now?  Congratulations on lowering yourself to the standards of the shopkeeper.

In my experience the shop assistant in a "luxury" handbag shop is very likely to have been Eastern European... probably not Swiss at all.

Oprah shoud fly to Moscow and try shopping for an overpriced handbag there if she wants to experience racism.

Racism is unfortunately apparent in "every" country in the world, not just Switzerland, but the political stance of the SNP here has brought it into the spotlight and now every incident will be reported... did a thread like this pop up when the UK announced a direct ban on immigration from certain countries and dramatically reducing also the amount of residency applications and asylum seekers... nope!!!

I have a different issue, with my chinese face, I ve been only propose most expensive things in shop.... It s not about racism, it s about stereotype and this unfortunatly it s not only a swiss but a global state of mind. 

Maybe not on here Charlie....but definitely amongst my contacts on Facebook.

When I was robbed in the station here,the police who took my statement asked me,in French,if they " we're Swiss"

Amazing question.I mean,how could I have known without asking to see their ID?

Or,maybe,you can just "tell" who is Swiss by just looking at them?

Sorry,"were Swiss"

Errr...that's because we're in Switzerland talking about Swiss stuff.

Max..

Hey Buzzcocks,

I know what you mean. I think there's a type of 'implied racism' here. The last time I went flying the Swiss guy I was flying with reminded me to lock the plane.  I jokingly said "Do you get a lot of aircraft theft at this airfield (Lausanne)" To which he replied "Well a young guy tried to steal an aircraft a couple of years ago and crashed it before take off....He was North African"

I spent the whole afternoon wondering why he added the last bit and why it was relevant. If he had been Swiss, or French or Cornish would that have been added to the story? Well ok maybe if he was Cornish.

I like it...but not sure what it means.....

Sounds like you know both of them and were there.

Oh... then Oprah is the typical American... It's not what I read in Carolyn's prose, but it's what I read in yours... Thanks for the info...

Busted!  I was too busy attending Tina's wedding, to be idling time in expensive Swiss handbag stores. 

Actually no, your response IS the point. There are plenty of women runners who could put men to shame in the 5K. Assuming that the women running the 5K couldn't "medal" (while the men running the 3K would bar the women from medaling) is the very definition of sexism.

This is the same mentality that one one person in the household could/should work (most often the man), and that the other adult stays at home. Just because it's "ingrained" in the culture doesn't make it any less sexist or any more right - especially in a country that is vaunted for its populist "freedom."

Ok to clarify... I think its abhorrent that racism exists here or anywhere, but Im no longer surprised when it rears its ugly head here or anywhere.

Small minded people with too many insecurities... 

Max, you're right... you didn't correct my grammer so bad use of the "GN" picture.. my bad.

If you checked Swiss Newspapers yesterday they reported this incident, and most Swiss were angry and wanted the name of the shop to be published. I havent checked the local Newspapers today, Im sure at the end they will find out the name of the shop and publish it.

Not "stereotyping" at all.  I mentioned Tina (and yes, I have met her on a 1:1 basis) who is also American and I said only nice things about her.

Why is it only ever American's who feel "stereotyped" when you mention "American" in the same sentence as a negative comment?

(Just a little irony, there, to brighten up your weekend).

The racism here isn't so much straight racism per se as classism. 2 examples.

For starters, having darker skin certainly doesn't stop the Swiss from bending over backwards to give great customer service in luxury shops and private banks to guys like Arab sheiks. (maybe afterwards they're muttering under their breath, but hey, not to their faces, right?).

Second, just look at the way that many Swiss consider "frontaliers" - educated, white, (often) upper-middle-class Europeans coming to "steal" the Swiss francs from the hard-working Swiss! Those lazy frontaliers - how dare they!?!?

So yeah, I really just think it's an issue of who's considered "wealthy" vs.who is not than a line that can be drawn definitively across a certain shade of skin pigmentation.

Because ... 'merkuh? 'MURCA! 

Actually, seems that several non-Americans agreed with me on this one (Shanti, Max, Dorothy).  So, not sure where that comment comes from.

Oh.....and it's "Americans", not "American's".  A little grammar/punctuation lesson to brighten up your weekend.

She doesn't seem to have much luck buying handbags...

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/TV/06/22/oprah.apology/

Did anyone actually see the interview on tv , at no point did Operah say this was a case of Racism... the shopkeeper simply told her that the bag was too expensive for her... obviously a big mistake on the assistants part.... who is the assitant to judge who can afford what to any customer... the press have taken this into the realms of racism, because that s what sells newspapers. 

What Operah said about racism, was that she was not allowed into  a shop in the USA because she was black. 

Swiss service standards are very poor imho, and it is made worse by the fact they simply dont care about the customer.. 

but please lets stop using the racism tag simply to make things newsworthy..

As for Carolyns comment.... well youve just lowered yourself to the level of the shop assistant by pre judging a person you do not know or understand.

Keep smiling .... and loving life ... good bad or indifferent

"As for Carolyns comment.... well youve just lowered yourself to the level of the shop assistant by pre judging a person you do not know or understand."

And I don't believe you've ever met me either,  Karl N.

no , i havent but ive read your misinformed comments.. 

Am frae Glasgie - apparently we canne spell Inglush

NO YOU CAN'T TAKE IT BACK! I WANT IT NOW!!!!

Did anyone actually see the interview on tv , at no point did Operah say this was a case of Racism... the shopkeeper simply told her that the bag was too expensive for her... obviously a big mistake on the assistants part.... who is the assitant to judge who can afford what to any customer... the press have taken this into the realms of racism, because that s what sells newspapers.

You obviously didn't see the interview with Larry King...  "misinformed comments"... anyone?

"The town of Bremgarten in the Swiss canton of Aargau has banned asylum seekers from public swimming pools and sports facilities. The decision is symptomatic of Switzerland's increasingly restrictive asylum policy."

The above was mentioned in Spiegel Online International

No comment!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/bremgarten-introduces-exclusion-zones-for-asylum-seekers-a-915587.html

Dans la controverse autour du nouveau centre pour requérants d'asile de Bremgarten (AG), Simonetta Sommaruga s'est exprimée vendredi contre la limitation des droits fondamentaux.

Il n'y aura pas d'interdiction générale de piscine, ni à Bremgarten ni ailleurs.

«Les droits fondamentaux ne sont pas négociables», a déclaré la ministre de justice et police lors d'une promenade avec la presse à Berne. Elle a exclu catégoriquement une interdiction générale préventive de piscine pour les requérants. Il n'y a pas de base légale pour cela, a-t-elle ajouté.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIuHg0_kg3c

It's not racism, it's a mixture of Xenophobia, disrespect and laziness. If it was simply racism, then mainly I would not be affected

Yes,but the point is that Bremgarten SOUGHT to introduce this policy in the first place.

Luckily they are subject to a higher authority

I think it's obscene that anyone especially Oprah who reportedly does lots for charities would want to publicise this. I mean, who in their right mind would spend £24,000 on a bag. I hope it's big enough to put over her head!!!

I think it's obscene that anyone especially Oprah who reportedly does lots for charities would want to publicise this. I mean, who in their right mind would spend £24,000 on a bag. I hope it's big enough to put over her head!!!

I think I'm tending towards the laziness, rather than racism, explanation as well. Haven't seen the interview but one report I read said that Oprah had asked the assistant to get the bag down which was above her head. And, as I recall, the BBC report refers to the bag being behind a glass screen. Both suggest that it would have been some effort for the assistant to get it.

Also, (and more importantly) it could have made the shop untidy & messed up the display ;-)  This is Switzerland, after all....

Based on what l read in the article, I don't believe it was racism and just a mistake made on the assistant's part. The assistant could just be used to warning previous customers that it's too expensive and, without knowing who Oprah is, said it instinctively. There's a big difference between saying the bag is too expensive and the bag is too expensive FOR YOU. Who knows exactly what was uttered. Plus this is Switzerland not the U.S. Of course racism still exists, but at least she'd never be treated this way in the U.S.

As a public figure (and according Forbes the world's most powerful celebrity)  she should have better subject of discussion during interview on TV rather than her 35k CHF bag issue in luxury shops...

Especially when you are an adept of philantropy.

35kchf =  350.000 lunches for kids in Africa if instead of playing a scene of Pretty Woman in Zurich she would had joined us for a "Cheers for charity" event :p

The price of the bag is closer to 38'000 USD than 24'000 USD

source: http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/panorama/rassismus-gegen-oprah-winfrey-1.18130232

If my clients ask me for a 38'000 USD, 35.000 USD or 24'000 USD gadget or I will sell it. Immediately.

I've been told that the question "were they Swiss?" is police shorthand for "did they speak with a Swiss accent?".  But, of course, many expats might not be able to answer that version either

R..

Tell me when you're having a sale.

VIPs will always get best conditions

Appearances may be deceiving...

Weather the bag was $20 or $100,000, if it's in a shop, anyone wanting to see it, should be allowed to see it whether they look like they can afford it or not. It's condescending and ignorant to assume that only a certail kind of person can afford an expensive product.

Being a brown skinned person, and without any intentions of adding fuel to the fire, I must say that I have received this and many other peculiar forms of treatment in shops here. I don't like to call it racism but I don't know what else it is. See what gets one confused, is when a shop assistant treats you coldly/rudely and then quickly gets you out of the way to serve the next non-brown skin client in a very polite and welcoming manner, you have no choice but to call a spade a spade.

For those over-reacting, Oprah didn't say that she was a victim of racism from a swiss, she was a victim of racism in Switzerland....big difference. 

£25,000 to you

That would be incredibly lazy,ignorant and unprofessional of the police.What a thing to suggest!

And the police could never be considered of those things, could they.

Once I saw 3 policemen in the Park de Montbenon doing their job of harassing some sort of pusher looking foreign types, until at one point it just started raining a bit, at this point, the police left leaving the other fellows in peace to get on with their business..

I was playing a rugby match in a park in london... couldnt find the pitch, so hitched a lift with the park police....

it was raining....

Me "you guys are not busy today then?"

Police " nah. its raining"

me" huh?"

police " the criminals dont come out in the rain, the branches are too lsippery for them to swing tree to tree!"

(I got out of the police car)

The story of Oprah does indeed sound like laziness and poor service as it's not usually rich people who have any problems,whatever their origins.

Having said that,there WAS the case a few years ago of two black African men being encouraged to leave the exclusive Max Uomo store in Lausanne without a very valid explanation,prompting the joke slogan at the time " Max Uomo lave plus blanc" .It was also quite a scandal then.

By coincidence,have just heard an interview with a Swiss politician from the " People's Party"( not the best point of reference,dear BBC) who says that,in "luxury shops" people do often make an assessment of whether a potential client is likely to have the means to purchase something........in which case,oh dear,this case DOES actually sound like......a racist moment.

( And I am no fan of Lady Oprah or people who buy ridiculously priced handbags)

Maybe the salesperson was looking at Tina Turner who in turn was looking at an even more expensive bag...

An Eastern European would have had recognised Oprah and would have been so polite with her that she would finished by buying 10 bags instead of one! 

Thanks for the reminder.  I'd forgotten that episode.

Contrast with Australia...

Last time I bought I car, I went into the showroom dressed in a t-shirt, shorts and things (don't get excited, they're the sort you wear on your feet) plus two days of stubble. The service was so great that I ended up ordering the most expensive model.

How many sales do they lose because they prejudge someone based on clothes, skin colour or accent?

I wonder whether Ms Winfrey actually asked the shop assistant whether she spoke English or not? Her programme is not shown on Swiss TV but being so well-known perhaps she feels everyone should automatically know who she is, and by definition, approximately how much per annum she earns [well, gets anyway]. Whilst working in Antwerp, I have been approached by a member of the world'slargestenglishspeakingpopulation with an abrupt and direct "Say....................." without the person enquiring whether I spoke English or not. When I questioned this, he remarked "well I automatically assumed". Perhaps it is not so much racism as plain affront by OW not being recognised? Perhaps, Perhaps...... we'll never know really

Well... she's working in a luxury shop... I would damn expect her to speak english...

It's not someone she met in the street.

The titles of this thread implies that Swiss are either racist or bad at delivering good service, which is a somewhat racist comment, mind you.

Poor Oprah who's been denied the right to spend $35'000 on a bag. That's indecent. This is simply a non event: She went to a shop, has not been recognized, got upset about it and made a fuzz. I see no racism there, just an inflated ego confronted to what a looks like a simple misunderstanding by a girl who apparently does not speak English well (shop owner's version, potentially as valid as Oprah's). That could happen to anybody and everywhere. And it's not the first time it happens to Oprah. She had a similar problem with Hermes a few years ago and she started such a war against them that the eventually had to publicly apologize.

Hi Free

She did not say it was racism, the media titled it as racism, she just mentioned that she was not allowed to buy an expensive bag, for the salesperson thought she could not afford it. She didnt make any fuzz in that shop, she left the shop and told the story later on to friends as well as on the US Media. I dont see why should she hide the fact that the saleswoman thought she could not afford the bag. So she told the story as it was. And you are making a fuzz out of it.

I do agree, The first time i visited europe , i was shocked how their customer service suck! Specially cough
Dalal S, Aug 10, 2013 @ 01:26

But whether the salesgirl spoke english or not, a potential client is pointing at an item in your shop, is it so difficult to understand that the client is interested in that item??....that has got to be a very slow salesgirl.

Hi Free

She did not say it was racism, the media titled it as racism, she just mentioned that she was not allowed to buy an expensive bag, for the salesperson thought she could not afford it. She didnt make any fuzz in that shop, she left the shop and told the story later on to friends as well as on the US Media. I dont see why should she hide the fact that the saleswoman thought she could not afford the bag. So she told the story as it was. And you are making a fuzz out of it.

Again... YES, SHE DID.

I agree with Patric!

The same about me and few other Baltic girls(Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania)...
I am in the Switzerland for almost 5 years. People around me is still pointing at me that I or my baltic friends are from the Russia.And because of that I had lot's of good/bad experience .

It's so pity, because I am not Russian and never been. Even if we look like or not, If we are loud or fun.... First of all ask me -Where do You come from?!?

It's not the same if I will say to Swiss people- You are french or opposite.

And there will be plenty of opinion about this Oprah topic. You will never know how in real it happened cause she is the star in the US and she can say what she wants but no surprise if it's true! :)

Opra complained exactly about the same thing when she went to Paris (strange not ?)

There are many cases such as the one you've mentioned that do not make it to the news simply because they are not reported.  A friend of mine from Ghana who happens to be a big shot at the UN was at a BMW shop recently accompanied by another African and they were encouraged, in a very polite way mind you, to leave the shop.   And these kind of situations happen more often than we would like to think.

Having said that I do not kow whether the incident reported by Ms Winfrey is related to her skin colour but I strongly suspect there might be a connexion.

Racism exists in each country on this planet. Mainly due to a lack of education and of social context.

So to educate your kids against it is the only way forward. To moan on forums about Oprah and the BBC's interpretation of her comments will certainly not change the face of the world.

Agreed, it's important to educate children, but why not the rest of human society?

And let's not forget that skin colour is but one aspect of racial intolerance.  There are many, many other issues, all equally harmful and hurtful.

“Man’s inhumanity to man …”

I agree that racism is Evrywhere.

On this occasion, I beleive its more a language and culture barrier, the sales assistant didnt have enough knowledge to understand who she was dealing with.

Well it doesn't matter who you're dealing with really, every potential customer should be threated the same.

But I bet this whole thing is a publicity stunt by Oprah to make herself popular in Switzerland. She said that she has been shown other bags before asking about that specific one. She probably looked at a few cheaper ones and said something about the price ...

She said on her twitter "Turns out that store clerk did me a favor. Just found out that bag was $38K!!! She was right I was NOT going to buy it."

I like how Ellen Wallace puts it:

http://genevalunch.com/2013/08/10/switzerland-and-racism-the-cost-of-misunderstandings/

Bad Service? Racism? There's obviously no straightforward answer to that question. Nobody was there when it happened and it's a waste of time interpreting if a country, person, shop-assistant is something or not. We don’t know the details that are necessary to come up with a reasonable explanation of the incident.

Expensive fashion shops – Don’t like them? Don’t buy anything there.

Swiss are racist? Do you know every Swiss person? Any research based evidence? Have you been to every country in the world? Who is Swiss anyway?

OW – Do you know her personally? Have you talked to her?

Customer service is bad? What is your definition of bad service? What’s good service for you? What country are you coming from?

Are you angry about something? Complain about it on the Internet.

I personally have many stories concerning bad customer service – from very different countries. IMHO, customer service is largely based on your own expectation when entering a shop for example and your own background/mentality and or the cultural context you are experiencing the service. There are many social skills are person has to master to be able to please customers from all over the world… IMHO the US and the UK have probably the best customer service I have personally experienced, because it simply has worked for me.

The people of the Dinaric Alps are on record as being the tallest in the world, with a male average height of 185.6 cm

That was my... cunterargument...

It strikes me that Mme OW must be scraping the barrel for entertaining material on her much-vaunted TV show if all she has to recount about a visit to Zürich for an illustrious friend’s wedding is that she was snubbed in a handbag boutique by a young Italian sales assistant who lives and works in a German-speaking environment while striving to comprehend as part of her job the requirements of a lady speaking American English.

I am a  born-and- bred Brit. who frequently has trouble in understanding Americans, especially those from the southern States – just as they often have difficulty in fathoming regional accents and dialect in the UK.

Therefore, may I be so bold as to suggest that the good Mme OW takes a six-month sabbatical to live in in shared accommodation in a working-class district in France, Germany, Italy or wherever while following a course in the local lingo and then get herself a job on the local TV station.  What a wealth of stories she’d have to tell on her return home!

I’m also intrigued by the lady’s  penchant for large handbags.  Any ideas  as to why?  I’d imagine it must be difficult to get lingots through airport security these days.

On a more serious note, racism is not the prerogative of the light-skinned races.  I’ve seen and heard it practised by different shades vis-à-vis all kinds of ethnic origins.

Lastly, could we perhaps spare a thought for the Italian sales assistant, who must be having a pretty miserable weekend after all this media fuss.  I hope she hasn’t lost her job or that her future career has been blighted.

Must awa now.

Ritchie

Max - as you started the original post, I thank you for promoting a lot of interesting and unusual ideas.  However, I have to tell you that I reported your last post to "admin" because I find it highly offensive.

There is seldom an opportunity where the "c" word is relevant and it is highly offensive to most people (women or other).

Are the Swiss Xenephobic? - maybe they are, but you and I are living in their country and therefore you and I should play by their rules - otherwise leave!

Tina Turner got it right - Queen Oprah didn't and she didn't like the consequences.  So, Oprah, sweetie, leave, but let's leave crude language out of our glocals posts.  Please.

One question to you, the guy with a locked profile and and small picture, who started this thread with a very racist and narrow minded question and end it the rudest possible way: as you seem so unhappy with our xenophobic environment and with our appalling service, what the hell are you (still) doing here?

Just sit down, take it slowly
You're still young, that's your fault,
there's so much you have to go through
Find a girl, settle down,
if you want you can marry...

or leave, but please, please, please, stop whining.

Yes Max B. Your posting was offensive. Surprised the Mods did not delete it.

In any case, there are a number of us here who feel you should apologise

All: we removed Max's post where he used insulting language. 

Max: we'll have to block your account if you use similar language again. 

Nir, glocals admin

...and we killed Chris M's reply to Max, for the same reasons, with the same warning. 

I didn't read all the replies, but let me give my feeling as a Swiss national, and nothing that could indicate I'm not, except my family name which is Spanish. I am only writing down "reality vs feeling" and most down here doesn't represent my personal opinions, but my observations.

The situation is that politics, mostly extreme-right wing, are rising public discontent or even frustration against foreigners. "Point at the french for their poor service. Point at the roms (oftenly mixed up with romanians) for your burglared home. Point at the spanish/italian with their economical crisis all coming here to get your jobs. Point at Schengen for all the sh*** coming in. Point Merkel and USA for putting pressure on our banks and making so many people lose their jobs..."

The real problem is politics are doing not much REAL to resolve our few issues. It's true we have better living conditions than elsewhere, it's true we have an ok income, but the real problem is prices.

You want to find an appartment in Geneva ? You'll have the feeling that except if you work for a big multinational or are an expatriate receiving help from his company, or a UNO official, you'll have almost no chance to find one in less than 6 months and for less that 2000CHF. It's not just a feeling, it's a reality for many Swiss nationals. What's wrong is who people are made believe responsible of the situation.

People think that if the government weren't happy with the situation, they'd do something about it. That's the sensitive spot where extreme-right strikes. They give the promises people want to hear, but don't understand the underlying mechanisms and results of. They don't hold more promises than other parties, but they know how to communicate and use that frustration.

This has given Switzerland a very bad foreign affairs image. People are angry because they get their money sucked out by health insurance and lodging fees, and general living expenses. Even with a 4000CHF monthly income, it can be hard to live comfortably.

The insurance fees have risen every year and keep on rising. Housing prices too. So who are they going to point on ? "All those immigrants or expatriates, filling your homes or keeping them without even living in them." not, "the construction lobbies and incoherent laws holding construction back" and "the salary-dumping swiss employers."

Officially, it's said we have little problems finding jobs here. This is arguable, but I find it really very hard. It's maybe because summer is the worst period, but I've barely found anything else than temporary assignments in 6 months. Other people I know also find it depressing.

We don't even seem allowed to be frustrated, because the rest of Europe is feeling even worse. So some think "Why should I care about the countries around me ? I'm in the same situation as them, but I can't tell it out loud, or they would get angry and hate me for being a sad and poor Swiss..." And that's source of even more frustration.

What does the extreme-right wing say ? "It's those french-border people taking your job. It's that spanish guy with a better diploma than yours and more languages that got it."

Reality is, many Swiss companies set quotas of Swiss vs immigrants in their companies, and that's why swiss-german is asked for so much.

It's a fact Switzerland is becoming racist, but wait a moment: who's living in Switzerland ? Is this not a democracy where everyone is supposed to be listened to ? Who is voting ? Who creates the laws ? Who is able to change things ?

The citizens. But why isn't anybody moving ? Why is everyone so frustrated and angry, but just doing nothing about it ? Promises...

And ask the sheep...

to Anura: not on this topic really, but can you explain me your statement :

 I've always enjoyed flying with Swiss because I find them so polite. I'm not sure, but maybe the check-in staff are Swissport not Swiss.

What has this to do for who you are working with? i don't think i have an other thinking at Swissport after working for Swissair/Swiss for 11years ???

Sorry, this might have appeared a little bit out of context but one poster had mentioned a poor experience at check-in at Geneva. I was just trying to point out that any failure in service might be due to Swissport instead of Swiss ie. if they want someone to blame, make sure they are blaming the right company.

Seriously, no offence was intended to Swissport. Frankly, as an Australian travelling through Swiss airports I feel better treated than as an Australian travelling through Australian airports!

Absolute last contribution from me..... copied just now from The Local :

Updated: 12 Aug 2013 10:55 GMT+02:00

After initially gaining sympathy for her alleged snub in a Zurich luxury boutique, billionaire chat show queen Oprah Winfrey is now being blasted by Swiss animal rights groups over her interest in a crocodile leather handbag.

Winfrey suggested she was the victim of racism when a saleswoman refused to show her the bag, priced at 35,000 Swiss francs, while she was visiting the Swiss city for Tina Turner’s wedding last month.

The American celebrity, whose fortune is estimated at $2.8 billion by Forbes magazine, expressed interest in a crocodile bag at the Trois Pommes shop but she said the assistant, who did not recognize her, indicated the bag would be too expensive for her.

The Swiss animal rights group Four Paws (Vier Pfoten) was critical of the fact that Winfrey would want to buy a crocodile bag and called on Trois Pommes to withdraw the item from sale.

“We do not know if Ms. Winfrey actually wanted to buy the bag,” Chantal Häberling, spokeswoman for the group, told the 20 Minuten newspaper.

But she should know that crocodiles suffer for the production of such bags, Häberling said.

“The animals are kept in extremely small enclosures,” she said.

To kill them the animals are beaten with a hammer on the head in some farms and “it sometimes takes two hours before they are dead.”

Animal rights activists are especially curious to know why Winfrey would want to see a crocodile bag given her avowed support for animal rights.

PETA, the world’s largest animal rights group, named Winfrey “person of the year” in 2008 after she spoke out against the wearing of fur.

But the organization has also campaigned against the “heartless millions” made in the fashion industry from the use of exotic animal skins.

Meanwhile, the saleswoman from Trois Pommes who dealt with Winfrey, has denied that she showed racism or that she told the star that she could not afford the 35,000-franc bag.

“This is something I would never say to a customer,” she told the SonntagsBlick newspaper.

“Good manners are the alphas and omega of this business.”

The employee said she was only trying the show Winfrey other bags in the same style.

The saleswoman, who has been backed by the head of Trois Pommes luxury chain, Trudie Goetz, said she has not been able to sleep since the controversy blew up late last week.

“I feel like I’m in the middle of a hurricane.”

Goetz has described the incident as a “misunderstanding” but Switzerland Tourism, concerned about the country getting a black eye for racism, issued an apology to Winfrey on Twitter, adding that “this person acted terribly wrong”.

American website Politico reported over the weekend that Winfrey got worldwide attention when she commented on the alleged discrimination she received in Zurich during a TV interview about her new political movie, The Butler.

In addition to promoting her movie, Winfrey is ramping up her political involvement, including hosting a fundraiser for a Democratic Party candidate for the New Jersey Senate contest, the website noted.

Trois Pommes

Four Paws

One Hypocrite

Please.  Someone make this woman Go Away! 

Oprah is just looking for publicity. that was just bad customer care not racism. she assumes everyone knows her. You will be amazed how many of my swiss friends have heard of her for the first time because of this article. 

Carolyn C,

You seem to be making comments out of absolute hatered for Oprah not even with regard to the incident. What did the woman ever do to you? If she wanted to buy the whole shop, she's allowed to.

With all the donations she makes to charities, she entitled to treat herself to whatever she wants. Not just for Oprah but for anyone else. We all feel like we want something good after working hard and I don't think there's anyone of us here that would say no to a crocodile bag 

So let the woman be and put yourself in the situation instead of giving hate. Two wrongs don't make a right.

"absolute hatred" "giving hate" ?!?!?!

Apart from putting words in my mouth, I worry that you can't distinguish between "absolute hatred" of a person that I don't know from a bar of soap, or care one whit about, and "sheer boredom" with a publicity-craving, hypocritical, celebrity.

And I certainly would say "no" to a crocodile handbag.  

So when Oprah's handing them out in the name of charideeee - you can have mine - for free.

Blacks age better, that would be a reason for whites to feel jealous.

Oprah looks good for 60, it ain't  only her money, its her African genes too

And the nip 'n tuck doctor

If I bumped into Oprah or Tina or any of most "celebraties"in the street I wouldn't know them from the next person... its not racist.. just don't give a flying f*** frankly... I dont follow the celeb gossip, and couldnt care less.

I wouldnt abuse her racially, at all, or any one else... just I would treat her like everyone else and for a attention seeking "celeb" this may wash the wrong way...

Hope she doesn't end up as the "celeb" who shouted wolf too many times... its beginning to sound a little like it.

"Switzerland Tourism, concerned about the country getting a black eye for racism, issued an apology to Winfrey on Twitter" 

Should they change that to 'African-American eye' otherwise Oprah might kick off again.

what is wrong with being exceptionally successful and wanting to spend some of her self-made (as opposed to inherited) wealth on a bag? so she spends millions in charity--that doesn't mean she can't keep and spend some of her wealth on herself.

I agree with Gladys. How does trying to buy a handbag at a Swiss store make Oprah a hypocrite?

And why make comments like "someone make this woman go away!"

If I had to choose between letting Oprah and Carolyn stay in Switzerland, I'd choose Oprah in a heartbeat.

And, dear Jason/Gladys,  if I had to choose between replying to stupid people's posts and doing something more interesting.........

Yes, there's nothing wrong with being successful.  Yes, she's allowed to make as much money as she likes.  Yes, she can give as much to charity and keep as much for herself.  

The problem comes when:

a) you pull the race card whenever you go shopping, as Charlie mentioned, she may well become known as the "celeb who cried wolf once too often" and as a friend said to me only this morning "Friggin Oprah, always pulling the race card, just ruins it for the rest of us...."

b) you then turn it all into a publicity stunt on the back of your film being released on 16th August

c) and if you're a staunch campaigner for animal rights, you shouldn't even be looking at buying crocodile-skin handbags.

I didn't really think it was all that complicated.

Back to more interesting things.....like polishing up my C permit...

Wow Carolyn, sorry but I didn't expect you to start calling people stupid or bored which is very rude but, nevermind...No one put words in your mouth. You made it very clear with these posts:

"Oprah Winfrey - loud, obnoxious American, with major bad-attitude-chip-on-shoulder, visiting Zurich, who points her fingers at you when she speaks and probably sprouted a few "Do you know who I AM?".  Happens to be black and famous."

And the blow:

"Someone make this woman Go Away!"

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell that you despise her.

Plus, we are all speculating on this topic. None of us was there to know what really went down. But one thing is clear: Oprah felt judged on her buying ability and the Sales girl felt misunderstood. The sales girl should have just shown her all the damn bags and not made any comments. 

On the other hand, when celebrities voice their encounters, due to the platforms they use, its always seen as a publicity stunt no matter how genuine they could be. It could have been Kate Middleton or Donald Trump. Doesn't matter.

Plus what's the big deal, she just wanted to see the bag. She didn't even know the price as she learnt of the price days after the incident.

We have these tendancies to assume that celebrities should not complain, they have the money and power to fix situations but no, they are emotional too. Had it been one of us here that encountered this , we probably would all be cursing the sales assistant and apologizing to the victim. 

And since you mention this topic is not interesting, why are you posting?

from what I have read she is a big supporter of PETA - so it does seem hypocritical to attempt to buy a crocodile skin bag made from crocodiles that were allegedly severely mistreated in this case.

anyway ...

Far more eloquently put than most of the above posts - and just the point I was trying to make.....

Now the shop assistant has spoken out (as opposed to the owner) and called Oprah a liar, making the very good point that if she was THAT offended, why didn't she mention it to the store owner, the very next day, when they attended TT's wedding "together"? 

I stand by my three points made above.  Abuse of the race-card, publicity stunt and hyopcrite.

Summer "news" stories.....

Chuck Norris get a brilliant customer service in Geneva and he found a parking place in less than two minutes. For free :) 

Message approved by Chuck.

Hi Guys,

Being of non-swiss origin, I fight together with those who fight against racism. But, for this paticular case. Let's imagine she was someone else, totally unknow person, would you still hear such a noise around this "incident"?

This woman is a real strong business person, who knows how to market herself in a sustained way. Now there are even more people in EU know her name and picture thanks to her complaint... That's how she will be able to buy another bag that will worth 83K in the future. - she is so proud of being able to buy a bag (animal skin) costing more than 30K...

I just can't understand her paradoxical behaviour regarding animal defense. She does not think it is a shame to buy the skin of the animal she defended a few years ago (did she defense animal for the good cause of for her own good social image?)

So guys, do some real things that will help improve this social situation (e.g. education of children, etc) in stead of doing advertisement for her to have more future audience and business. There are way a lot more ordinary people who need real help... Come on, let's talk about those people who can't have a good jon because of skin color, etc etc, but not not about this woman who complains about the shop assistant who did not kneel down before her because she is so rich.

I can't rule out this was a racist case. But I might also be due to bad service. I shopped in NewYork  and Washington some weeks ago. Indeed, the service in the US is much better than that in CH. The shop assistant could have the same attitude towards anyone who came into the store at that moment...

Hi Guys,

Being of non-swiss origin, I fight together with those who fight against racism. But, for this paticular case. Let's imagine she was someone else, totally unknow person, would you still hear such a noise around this "incident"?

This woman is a real strong business person, who knows how to market herself in a sustained way. Now there are even more people in EU know her name and picture thanks to her complaint... That's how she will be able to buy another bag that will worth 83K in the future. - she is so proud of being able to buy a bag (animal skin) costing more than 30K...

I just can't understand her paradoxical behaviour regarding animal defense. She does not think it is a shame to buy the skin of the animal she defended a few years ago (did she defense animal for the good cause of for her own good social image?)

So guys, do some real things that will help improve this social situation (e.g. education of children, etc) in stead of doing advertisement for her to have more future audience and business. There are way a lot more ordinary people who need real help... Come on, let's talk about those people who can't have a good jon because of skin color, etc etc, but not not about this woman who complains about the shop assistant who did not kneel down before her because she is so rich.

I can't rule out this was a racist case. But it might also be due to bad service. I shopped in NewYork  and Washington some weeks ago. Indeed, the service in the US is much better than that in CH. The shop assistant could have the same attitude towards anyone who came into the store at that moment...

sorry, somehow posted 2 times

Such stories used to be known as fillers for the “dog days” so, true to the time-honoured  tradition, Oprah trots out a woeful tale of visiting   Zurich for a friend’s wedding and all she got was an unforgiveable snub in a over-priced boutique.

Wouldn’t it have been more charitable to let that sleeping pooch lie?  But no, a girl’s gotta ensure the ratings continue to rise and spread so that on her next expedition to the European wild she will be instantly recognized and her custom treated with the respect it deserves.

Fingers crossed, dear Oprah, that you’ll understand as well as being understood.

Ritchie

Ive been in Swizerland for 8 months and i have always been treated with respect and even more I would say than in the USA where I lived for over 13 years and every once in a while I would have a negative remarks or treatment related to my race!

Don't worry - it was worth posting twice

Gladys (and Jason, of course) please accept my profuse apologies if my "stupid persons posts" offended you.  It is easy to forget that the British sense of humour does not translate across all nationalities.

It's actually a reference to an "Absolutely Fabulous", well known sketch in one of the funniest sit-coms ever produced by the BBC.

Like "just make it/her/him/Go Away" is also a commonly used expression for indicating that celebrities are over-exposing themselves and we would really like them to "just go away" (as in disappear) for a while from our screens, social networks and newspapers.  Often used in reference to the Kardashians, for example.

So I will take your comments on board and in future, use the more polite and "PC" "apparently ill-informed" when I realise that the poster has (apparently) done little or no research into the topic being debated on this forum, and apologise once again if my previous remarks offended.

On a more humorous (British Humour) note, maybe I should apply for a job in Trois Pommes, as several earlier posters accused me of "lowering myself to the level of the shop assistant" (ooooh, how derogatory - but apparently not so) by NOT defending Oprah.

One final note - it's not the "topic" that's not interesting, I find it all very fascinating - it's Oprah Winfrey-money-making-machine,  that makes me want to stifle a huge YAWWNNNNN.

Swiss racist but certainly sexist because only men are obligated to serve in the Military service. What is that about?

Where in this world is there equality,

hehehehehe :P

Carolyn - I think we have finally identified the obnoxious person with the chip on their shoulder.  Thanks for the help.

You're welcome - as they say, I was only trying to help, make amends and apologise. Or am I missing the point?

Warning...a looooooonnng one...

I do not post often—like almost never.  However, this post hits home more than most.  I’m black American (my term of choice over African-American; would be happy to explain if the opportunity presents itself).  Regardless to how they start, most posts on glocals quickly devolve to less than serious banter—a mix of pure fun, obnoxious stress relief, and rudeness.  In short, they’re entertaining.  This one, however, reflects the attitudes toward race, that I’ve become accustomed to.  I am not, and never will be, "a victim."  Neither am I an Oprah fan (generally speaking), I don’t believe in “affirmative action,” and was raised with a few very strong principles (among others): “Never say you could have done better,”  “There’s no such thing as trying, because ultimately you either fail or succeed,” “You have to be good enough that you’re competency can never be questioned, otherwise you lose—that’s because you’re black.”  All of those principles rested on a foundation of “never step on anyone else--always reach back to help others who are also trying to make it (regardless of race).”  Rather than making a hyper-competitive person, those principles tend to cause one to be grounded in reality: ”Life ain’t fair: if you want something, work for it and don’t whine if you miss the mark.”

As I read this thread, it reminded me that ‘life ain’t fair.’  I’ve lived in Europe for a number of years.  Ironically, there was a time when I encountered less racism throughout Europe (to include CH) than back home; and I have very few problems back home.  However, I’ve personally noticed that I’ve gone from being considered an American to being considered black—at least until I open my mouth and my unmaskable accent comes out.  Based on my subjective analysis (uninformed by anything but gut feeling and common sense) I attribute the change to the increase in African immigrants seeking asylum.  Sometimes the racism I encounter is subtle, sometimes not.  And when in doubt, I chalk it up as ignorance or general rudeness.  Still, I could recount a number of examples in which there was no doubt, and they seem to be increasing. So what does one do with that?  He or she moves ahead with his or her life, because life isn’t fair.  But what one does NOT do is deny reality.  When I walk down the street in Geneva and a woman clutches her purse more tightly, “it is what it is.”  When I’m on the train and the blond European next to me isn’t asked for a passport, but I am, “it is what it is.”  When someone says “oh, not you. You’re different; you’re not like those others,” yeah, right, “it is what it is.”  You don’t stop and complain, even if you’re pissed and want to knock the shit out of the person!  Instead, you move on.

If we read and listen to Oprah’s various interviews, that was her attitude as well—“it’s sad, but it’s life.”  At that moment, Oprah was not the most powerful entertainer in the world (as recently declared by Forbes Magazine).  Most likely, she wasn’t even African-AMERICAN.  Instead, she was a “black chick” who was wasting a shopkeeper’s time, because surely a “black chick” couldn’t afford such an item, and may even try to steal it—oops, the truth.  “It is what it is.”   Point here is, no matter the race, you (we) are treated differently when someone knows we are “American” or “British” or “French” than when we are simply “black—or African.”  Joke and deny as we will, but fact is fact.

Regardless to Oprah’s celebrity status, the problem of racism persists.  If those who point it out are accused of “playing the race card,” and “crying wolf,” how will we ever address the issue?  She is certainly a "money-making machine," and great at publicity.  But, if we review the other incidents that she cited, we’ll see that the others ADMITTED that she was turned away because of race—there was no denial.  It's also worth reading her statement on why she didn't say anything at the time.  If we look at the causes she supports, we cannot help but ask whether one of the richest women in the world needs to play the race card to stay rich or whether she could actually believe that things of this nature need to be pointed out for the good of all.  

Hence the reason I keep my mouth shut and simply smile when someone says “it’s not you—you’re not like the others”  (yeah, it’s said more often than most will admit) or when someone asks “so how’s it feel to know that my great grandparents may have owned yours? (yeah, really!!!)” 

Yeah, I rambled, but there’s a point to it. Racism exists, and it doesn't hurt to pause and consider rather than denying the fact.  Is there a grain of truth to most stereotypes? Abosolutely!  So let's calculate that into the equation as well, but let's not deny.

Finally, it would be worth noting that Oprah was born in Mississippi during segregation.  She had a rougher than average childhood and is truly a self-made multi-billionaire who wore dresses made of potato sacks as a child.  Though she does champion “African-American issues,” to the extent that such a thing exists, she has managed to transcend race, and the majority of her effort is put toward issues involving women and children (she was raped and impregnated as a child). Diva? Maybe.  Diva with a cause, definitely.  So, though I am not a fan (and generally have a different political leaning), I do respect what she’s accomplished and what she still seeks to accomplish.  If you look into the history of Tina Turner (my mother’s generation) you’ll know why the two have such a strong mutual respect.

Bottomline—the shopkeeper may not have been racist, but the incident gives reason for pause and objective reflection.  The answer is not “there is no problem…” 

By the way, what cause did FIFA adopt and why?  There's nothing to her claim?  How many blacks have agreed, or how many non-blacks who say there is no problem have blacks on their friends list?...honest question...

We all have our opinions.  That's mine.  Back to being quiet and "different than the others."  More than willing to discuss further over coffee (or something stronger) with any takers…

Could you post a synopsis, please?

Thanks ever so.

Tired and weary R.

Thanks for your request.  Unfortunately, the answer is no.  If it's too long and tiring, no need to read it.  I live it, so I can tell you over the course of my young life, I too have grown weary, but with the apathy associated with the issue.  As I noted, it's simply my unqualified opinion and an attempt to provide a unique(?) perspective. Have a wonderful night.

Oprah did an excellent PR job: An entire Glocals thread dedicated to her misfortune (if we can call that a misfortune)!

She did not say it was racism (Dorothy, you were right, but the story went viral whether she made a fuss or not, but I suspect she did in a very subtle way), but she quoted the incident in the Larry King show where they were discussing about it. By calling what looks like poor commercial judgment racism and suggesting that she may have been discriminated because of her skin color whereas she simply did not get the kind of service she was expecting, she subordinates a very necessary cause - anti-racism - to an ego trip.

For those who watched the tape, she basically said in about one minute (see the ZRH incident part) that she was invited at Tina’s wedding, that she is an normal person too because she was all by herself,  that she could afford to buy an entire shop, that she was a much better person than the sale assistant because she didn’t make a scandal, and, incidentally, that she does not care that much about animal rights otherwise she would not have been interested in an alligator bag.

And please, don’t get me wrong. Racism do exist, it is despicable, I find it despicable and it should be fought in every possible way, but not by calling wolf on what appears to be a personal issue.

If possible Richard, I would thank you a thousand times for your post.

While I also do not post on this forum very often, I felt compelled to do so because the Oprah Saga finally provided an opportunity to talk about the elephant in the room. Since then I have watched the discussion descend into a Saturday Night Life-resque comedy of sorts. I have had to refrain from replying to several posts on this discussion because however outlandish, condescending or insulting people’s opinion might be, in the end it is still their opinion. They are entitled to it and unfortunately, I am unable to converse with anyone at that level.

Some people are just unable to understand or comprehend the emotions or frustrations of others unless they know someone who’s been there or have felt it themselves. If they don’t, then it can’t be real. Unfortunately these people have the loudest microphone and somehow lead discussions on matters they know absolutely nothing about. Irrespective of how rich Oprah is, whether or not the bag was made of alligator skin or banana peel, whether she complained about similar treatment in a shop in France, whether she has a movie/book/clothing line or has just finalized plan to publicize a third boob is irrelevant. In fact this episode is just one episode. We are talking about it because she is rich and famous or whatever. But what about all those that are not? Those without voices that experience the same or worse treatment every day.

We just need to treat everyone decently that’s what I think. This is the first country I’ve lived in that being white is not even enough protection against discrimination. You’re French so you must be this. You are Romanian so you must be that. Don’t even get me started on the Ukrainians, etc.

Anyway, thanks Robert for elevating this conversation above gutter level. Now off to deactivate notifications for this tread…

If Oprah wanted to market herself, she has better techniques and she is smart enough (as most of you wrote), to know that marketing oneself out of such a sensitive issue is not going to work in her favour.

Cut her some slack and if you insist, don't you think she must be a very generous "marketer" because she must have calculated and seen that by complaining about this on a global platform, both her and the store would benefit from free publicity and attention. Since the notion is: any kind of publicity is good publicity. She made both parties win so she is actually philanthrophic with her PR skills too....:)

Oprah was discriminated by an Italian salesgirl, not that long ago, the Italians were discriminated a lot in Switzerland, thus why I dont understand this saleslady for if her parents grew up in Switzerland then, they know and felt discrimination in Switzerland.

Did anyone see this ? 

http://www.upworthy.com/a-classist-in-switzerland-just-made-a-big-mistake-huge?c=ufb1

Mucho ado about nothing. The sales assistant didn't speak english and, oulàlà, didn't recognize Oprah (who?). Thus, of course racism exists in Switzerland for sure, not more, not less. But according to me this has nothing to do here.

well if swiss services are that bad and swiss german all racist, why the hell Tina Turner lives and get married in this awfull country? 

Okay, here's another take. If a woman or man of any ethnicity comes into a shop, car showroom and initially looks at bags, cars, pianos, whatever item it may be, for x amount and then says, can I look at the one which costs ten times the price of the range I've just been looking at then you might think that person is a timewaster and will divert them back to something that they could afford. Again, whatever their ethnicity.

This has happened to me in Switzerland (not with a crocodile handbag, I hasten to add) and while I was a bit aggrieved (as I could’ve afforded what I was looking at), there was a certain logic to it but then I just thought, sod it! I’ll buy it somewhere else. Which I did.

Also usually for a high-end items like that, I would imagine that one would know in advance that’s what they would choose and would just ask to see it straight away.

Granted OW is an exception and yes, we know she could easily afford it along with the shop itself but if you’re playing the averages and want to make a sale then someone (again of any ethnicity) asking to see something 10 times the price of what they were originally looking at would make most sales assistants wonder if it’s worth getting it down. Anyway, just my take on it. 

Have a good day and enjoy this weather!

Amen my friend.

Racism exists every where, even in Africa where it s not very easy being a white person.

but 2+ wrongs don't make a right

I m agree, but about racism, we only speak about white racism. If you really want to fight against, you have to be objective and point the issue in all aspect.

There are a couple of matters in this tea cup storm that puzzle me.

First, why was the assistant alone in serving OW?  Usually, there are at least two employees when merchandise of the sort is being shown.  In jewellers’ shops, this certainly applies for anything over, say, CHF 200.

Apart from security issues, it also helps if there’s any linguistic difficulty.

Secondly, handbags costing K number of francs are normally made to order, the one on display being a prototype.  As a mere pleb, even I know that, but OW doesn’t?

Moreover, to be able to actually show the bag to a customer, the sales girl would presumably have needed help to remove it from its display case so, again, why was she alone in serving the customer?

That suggests a shortcoming on the part of the boutique management but to dub it as a racist is a very long stretch of the imagination.

R.

Ok, here is a shitload of evidence about Swiss racism, including housing discrimination and profiling by the police:  http://www.coe.int/t/dghl/monitoring/ecri/country-by-country/switzerland/switzerland_cbc_EN.asp 

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/Council_of_Europe_attacks_racism_in_Switzerland.html?cid=9576

Sure that makes you a very descent person i guess ? Good for you.

Point here was and is: Switzerland has less racism than other countries and this whole thread is just pointless. I --> being person of color and from Pakistan ( not really the country associated with anything good) can confirm you this.

If anyone would like to challenge that then please visit me once in Bern so i can introduce you to so many Swiss people i happen to be really good friends with.

I got nothing more to add here please PM me if you have a point to share.

Ohh just one more thing to add :) 

If this is such racist country n you don't like it

Why in the world are u living here ? I am sure no Swiss person is forcing you to stay here.

Ah, yes, because 'good Negros' get to see, perhaps touch..... and maybe even buy the bag, according to this logic. Uppity Negros don't, obviously...

How do you know how OW acts in business transactions?

On what basis do you define her as a "loud, obnoxious American.....etc.?

I personally don't care about 35,000 chf status bags and those who aspire to own them or even look at them. 

Some people do not and never will believe that racism exists in business transactions whether in Switzerland or elsewhere. 

And some people obviously believe that because OW has now publicly cited 2 separate incidents in which she feels she encountered racism, she is crying wolf. Because it couldn't possibly happen twice. Not to OW or anyone. 

Maybe it's time to close the thread?

Admins?

I get what you're saying. There are so many stores here that have failed to train their sales staff in appropriate customer service. 

In most business establishments in the United States, staff are trained along the 'customer is king' principle as opposed to 'why are you bothering me, can't you see that I'm filing my nails...."

In the US and some other countries, we also understand that customers/clients could be millionaires or even billionaires in jeans. 

I would say that the majority of the poor customer service I've encountered here is because the staff appears not to have been properly trained even in greeting potential customers.

Then again, there are those situations where the salesperson appears not to see you and takes the white person who came in 5 minutes after you. Then you ask yourself... Martin Luther King...or  Marcellus Wallace...

Typical argument with lack of logic. Even the Swiss constitution promotes free speech.

Some people choose to try to make a place better rather than just leave it.

In addition, racism must and should be challenged in a nation hosting so many international organizations...

Who the hell is Oprah anyway?

There are other countries in this world which can use your generous help and are in serious need to improve ...so please don't waste your precious time here.

nobody and believe me nobody asked you or anyone to come help make this place better ...swiss are already doing a very good job at it. You like all the others are here just because of higher standard of living n financial gain. 

Please do not even try to contest this point with pointless argument.

Why?

There are a number of interesting aspects to this discussion:

a) general view of customer service in Switzerland;

b) Swiss treatment of foreigners;

c) How foreign expats view and treat each other;

d) funny cat photos...

Yes there is racism in Switzerland, there is sadly everywhere in the world.

BUT I guess that some who say that Switzerland treats badly its foreigners are the same who arrive in a shop in Geneva and speak directly in English without considering that the sales person maybe doesn't understand and without asking in a café if the waiter understands English. It is common also to hear expats asking "2 beers please" as if it was the most difficult thing to say in French, for people who work and live here. No wonder that the reaction of locals can be cold with such people, because of the lack of politeness, not of understanding.

As demonstrated in the experiences related by Oprah and various participants in this thread, and in the Council of Europe reviews cited by Translator, it's debatable whether the Swiss are "already doing a very good job at" making this place better or if more could be done.

While it might be that you indeed are country hopping for standard of living or financial gain (you say you are from Pakistan but your Glocals profile says you are from Canada, guess you'll also stay here only until you find somewhere else to run off to), not all of us are here for the same reasons.

However long we are here and whatever our reasons for being here may be, we can and should share how this can be a better place.

The population of Geneva has been over 40% foreign for decades.  Most businesses understand that in order to stay afloat and thrive, it is necessary to hire staff who are, at least, minimally bilingual. English is the lingua franca of the expatriate population and indeed the language that many Swiss use to communicate with Swiss from other regions.

In addition, many of the Swiss secondary schools also teach English. 

Finally, if you take a moment to inquire of the nationality of many "Swiss" sales shop assistants in this area, you will find that many are ....French.

In fact, many Swiss do appreciate the help. That's what my Swiss friends tell me. (Oh, but I guess you corned the market on that...)

There are many righteous, non-racist Swiss here who believe their country can be made better with the help of expatriates.

They are not all as close-minded and financially-oriented as you appear to be.

You may now resume your Jack Daniels inspired arguments.

French people working here are locals as well, only that they live on the other side of the border. So your point is that expats are right when they make no effort in trying to communicate in French, or even asking if people understand them? For me it's rude.

It was going to change into a language thing eventually, what with this being an English speaking forum and all, and there is a bit of Swiss bashing going on, so thats going to get some people riled for sure.There's also some down right rudeness going on here, so hopefully the referee will jump in again and remove some of the more personal stuff..

I'd like to make some points.

It's not ok to live in someone elses country (for years) and not even try to speak the language. But please don't generalise, we're not all like that. But also please nobody try to justify not speaking French on the basis that there's lots of foreigners here so we have the right not to try. We don't!

Also for those anglophiles and anglophobes out there. Please note: Next time a foreigner tries to speak to you in French, don't answer in English... It's not helping them;-)

I doubt that the shopgil told her that she cannot afford the bags. I m sure  Oprah didn t go shopping dress with H&M clothes. With a quick glance, anyone can notice that she s supra rich person ( watch, clothes jewelry), so you can imagine that seller, who are trained in this kind of shop to recognize outside sign of wealth, even if it s discret, didn t.

I m sure that it s more about an ego issue a language misunderstanding or an unsatisfied supra demanding quality of services ( don t forget that those shop, specially in ZUrich, are used to serve every day billionaires from all over the world) than a question of racism.