They file all the "close my account" requests in a drawer called "GO FUCK YOURSELF".... I guarantee you will recieve bills for the next few months....

Welcome to customer service across Switzerland... not just Orange.

I agree with Charlie.  

In America the matra is "The customer is always right".  In France and Switzerland I have found that they generally don't care.

I know!!!!

I lived in Hong Kong for a year and there you could be in a hotel restaurant and say to the waitress:
"I'd like ot order off the menu please. I'd like a plum floating in perfume served in a bowler hat please."  and she would say "Er...sorry sir that's going to take about 15 mintues. Is that OK?"

The fisrt time I checked in to a 4* hotel here I asked if someone could take my bags up to my room.  The receptionist looked at me as if I'd asked her to send a prostitute up to my room and just pointed to the lifts.

But my experience has been that Orange are the creme de la crap when it comes to service in their stores. The waiting time is ridiculous and the attitude of the staff is dreadful.

Also their netwrok coverage is pretty shit.

Stay away from Orange is my advice.

Dear MAX, 

Such a horrible person you are to even think you are a customer !!. You are in Switzerland my friend!!     You are a foreign!!! 

The one and only time I’ve been in an Orange store here the service was excellent! The guy serving me was very friendly, took a lot of time to answer all my questions in detail, showed me lots of cool stuff on his own personal phone as I was interested in the same model, and happily gave me the option of a new colour that wasn’t on display yet, as it had only be delivered a couple of hours before.

But in general I have found service here pretty poor – especially bars and restaurants.

I know. 

It just seems like an alien concept here. 

Thing is I think Switzerland would struggle without foreigners both in the commercial and academic worlds. I worked for a company here that was made up mainly of foreigners as the knowledge/expertise and, worst of all mindset, was just not available among the Swiss workforce.

Dave Letterman describes Venice as a dying city and I wonder whether Switzerland, now that it has lost it's monopoly on secret banking, might not be heading the same way.

Hmm let's see:

Attractive blonde woman vs hairy bloke with a broken nose and film star looks (Shrek).  Wonder why you got better service than me?  ;-)

and, did he want your phone No. as well? part of the extra sales service he was personally involved with

Classic!

I go to shops and I can see the female assistants mentally dressing me with their eyes.

All. If you don't like it here, why don't you leave? I'm getting a bit fed up with all these, Switzerland is boring, Switzerland has bad service, Switzerland is xenophoob, Switzerland is unfriendly. Nobody is forcing you to stay here right? Please do everybody a favor and just go back to that fab. place you came from, for sure it's better there.

Move for a change to the UAE, India or one of those places and you'll know what horrible customer service is. Just change to swisscom - they are more expensive but I have found their service always outstanding. It's just what you get if you go for the cheaper options. We all want first class service without paying a penny... It just doesn't work like that. Now grow up. Just leave a review - because it will help people to determin in the future not to use these services anymore, but stop complaining and generalizing. 

@Martin - Wow that is not a helpful comment.

1. I like it here but would be happy at home as well.

2. The customer service here in general is horrible (there is alway exceptions)

3. I and others here have a right to that opinion.

If you don't like the comments don't read them.  Simple huh?

You are right and I apologize but:

you are totally right, you are entitled to an opnion - but so am I. We are guests here - people are more and more here moaning about life if Switzerland. Hardly any positive thing is said. Even I as a Dutch bloke almost feel embarred as an foreigner - why do you think they sometimes have a bad name here? Why do you think? Because most of them act like spoild little kids. Can't deny that service is sometimes is a bit poor, but giving a smile, trying your best French, German or Italian opens up people etc.etc. - but saying Switzerland is dying? Give me a break please. Just saying....

It comes from both sides... 

Martin,

I have no problems with Switzerland... I've lived here out of choice for nearly 13 years.

I include "price" and "offers" in the overall customer service experience... not just whether some spotty youth smiles at me or not, or some techie testacle fixes my problem...But I have to say "Telecom services" here in general are shit, and that includes Swisscom.

 The only way to guage whether the overall service is shit is to compare it with other countries on things like "service" and "pricing" and "customer interaction"...

You're right that versus many emerging countries and many developed countries the Swiss excel.... but versus others it still fails drastically.

If you dont complain, it wont improve.

Defending bad service is as unhelpful as the bad service itself and as pointless as just saying its shit without clarification.

I hope this clarifies my position a little for you.

Wow, this is a cool thread!

I'm happy to be in Switzerland and happy not to be in America, but must admit that do get a bit tired of waiting for stuff sometimes and feel that sometimes the person being paid to serve me is not 100% committed to providing for my every need. What surprises me though is that voting with ones feet here in Switzerland just does not work. In fact getting one out of the shop was the reason for the poor service in the first place, so it's good that you're leaving...

Bonne Journée monsieur.

He was married and showed me piccies of his kids :P

Brill!  Well said Joshua.

I've noticed that people jump on forums to attack other people simply expressing their opinion.

If you don't like what someone is saying simply do not read the forum.

Well Martin,

I've been here off an on for 17 years and the mother of my kids is Swiss. Perhaps you have a deeper perspective? I don't know.

If you to take the time to read what I've said carefully you will see I ask "I wonder whether Switzerland is heading the same way."

You can offer an alternative point of view with out resorting to directing pointed comments at others who are simply opening up a conversation.

Girl!!!! that's my primo chat up line!!!!!!

Come on!

I'd not say we are guests, truly. Im paying more taxes than the very rich guys: THESE ones are guests.We are workload, very well paid and necessary.

And coming from a 3rd world country, i guess im entitled to say: yeah, service here is shittyyyy (not extending further, so many threads already), but so many other things can excuse the lack of sympathy and efforts from 3rd parties....

And ive been 4 years with orange, they are average: not great coverage, you just get to know the best deals if insisting, but never badly treated....

Right on.

My aim here was to gather responses and then send this link with a letter to the most senior person I can reach.

I agree fully that saying nothing makes one part of the problem and also denies the service provider the opportunity to rectify the problem. 

You can bet your bottom dollor that the VP of Customer service (or whatever) has a different 'vision' to the scroat working on the counter and would be horrified by the 'You can french kiss my ass if you don't like it" attitude.

Thanks Charlie.

BTW!

Can we change the default setting whenever one criticises Switzerland from "If you don't like it leave" to "I have a different point of view" or "Tell me five great things about Switzerland"*

It's limiting and tedious to receive this response everytime you just want to simply have a bitch or a moan.

*Chocoloate, amazing health care, more cheese than you can shake a stick at, beautiful and well protected nature and being able to buy booze at petrol stations (can you still do that?).

As a Swiss guy born and raised here, I can safely say : in this part of the country, service varies very much. It can be good but is too often pretty bad. I don’t have to give you examples: everybody, local or not, has experienced it. That doesn’t mean the place doesn’t have other good sides, but that’s a fact. German part is another story : I’m always amazed as how polite and helpful people can be there (I always think the woman of the helpdesk has a crush on me!).

So DO complain, but not the unjustly-wronged-self-righteous way, that wouldn’t pay. Just point very politely but very firmly that you are waiting and expect to be served. Don’t make it personal, don't offend people; just remind them of their duty.

I agree.

I have been here for 12 years, have learnt that you get good service when you know how to speak to them.

Banging your fists on the table and demanding service may work in a service culture such as the USA where they're scared of being sued for anything and where losing a customer can mean losing their job.

Over here this attitude will be taken as arrogance and met with a go fuck yourself and a rolling of the eyes reserved for arrogant foreigners.

Polite correction is normally met positively, and well received.

Although having a go at the French in Paris in french, works suprisingly well as I found out in the charles de gaules airport.

I do stand happily corrected here, but having said that - I hardly find any bad service. I approach things with a smile. With an open and friendly mind. And have seen to often the other side. People expect to be treated like they are kings - just because they might have some money to spent. As earlier said correctly - things are different here than they are in the us - but the 600 times a day fake "how are you drives me mental". Showing some genuine interest at the other side - and not treat them as a servant has gotten me anywhere without hardly any bad experience after 8 years here in Geneva. Happy holidays everybody!

I don't think banging your fist works anywhere.

So when you say a service culture like the US does that mean that Switzerland is not a service culture? What is it then?  Isn't Orange a French compan...ok I think we've just found the answer.

Maybe Americans aren't afraid of being sued or losing their jobs.  Maybe they're just polite, friendly and take pride in their work.

I agree with both of you but in this instance polite correction was met by a 'go fuck yourself' attitude by an arrogant Swiss person.

Arrogance, poor service and a lack of pride in perfroming your duties can occur anywhere...it's just that I notice here that it seems to happen maybe four out of seven times as opposed to once in ten in the US and zero out of one hundred in Japan.

I tell a lie. Actually banging your fist and shouting does work in the Middle East. I've tried the polite correction and no one takes you seriously unless your shouting and cursing.

Guys,

Of course if you go into a shop and carry on like Lady GaGa you're going to get fucked off at the high port...but that's not what most people on this forum are talking about.

I get the feeling that most people are talking about a requiring a simple service,for which you are paying, to be carried out in a pleasant manner.

The two incidents I have cited - one where I asked about a porter to take my bags up to my room (fairly standard in a hotel I would have thought or does that count as being an arrogant foreigner?); and the second where I asked someone who was dealing with me if they could continue when they broke off to talk to their colleague, are hardly examples of rolling in like Elton John, making my fingers snap and saying "You - Igor get this shit up to my room before I have you fired.

Or am I missing some big time social cues?

No she's not being professionally caring Bustan...she wants you.

Martin,

Have you been to India? If no, please dont comment about the customer service there. IT IS FAR FAR BETTER THAN WHAT WE GET HERE. On top of it most after sales service and also repairs are available at your doorstep on a telephone call. Most of the time it is free as well. The Indians are clever with their hands and are able to repair and recycle stuff instead of replacement. Both environment friendly and much more economical.

I am an Indian and I am offended if you say that the service in India is bad. I will agree with you if you say that corruption is bad in India, but bad customer service, I dont agree at all.

You are of course entitled and welcome to your tubular vision. 

Madhav

"If you don't like it here, why don't you leave?"

Who let their teenager onto Glocals?

Dear madhava

as a matter of fact I have had the pleasure to go to India multiple times on vacation. Where did I mention India ? Why are you insulted? If you are please do accept my humble apologies but I didn't want to offend anybody. Having said that, how beautifull India might be I always had the feeling that first and most I was a walking wallet - not a person. Now I can understand that fully because if you have to live of 2 dollars a day - any extra is more than welcome, and I therefor more than happy paid the double price than what you would pay as a local.  I just find this interesting as a "youngster" that so many people complain - interesting is almost the wrong word - about basic things which I never really faced. And I have been here now since 2004 (with a short break of one year in the Middle East) I guess that some people just have bad luck of meeting the wrong service providers, and that's about that. Some meet them more than others. 

Actually - being quite humble in dubai got me extremely far and had people going the extra mile. It made starting up an oil trading company quite easy whilst others where fighting and getting nowhere. I guess it's all about perception and the situations we end up in. They are all different. 

Ha !!!  I am not shocked!!!!  Piss poor customer service is quasi the standard these days.  Specifically phone shops, usually run by acne ridden dudes that want nothing more and nothing less than to sell you shed loads than what you originally wanted.  But this is the kind of attitude that comes with wealth in abundance, why try harder when there will be another million after you that all want the same product.  When I see people desperately sitting outdoors in the freezing cold to get the latest iphone are you surprised?  This illness is everywhere and permeates throughout the whole spectrum of commerce and business, same shit from car dealers.  Isn't this some kind of sad reflection emanating from the depth of the absurd never ending growth...?   Hmmm I do wonder...  But of course, it needn't be this way should it ?  What would be the solution, what main turning point in society should be taken, not simple ...  

it's an absolute legitimate question! Not by you btw Richard.

Generally speaking though, I would agree with most of you but foremost with Bustan. Coming from Zurich and having lived 6 years in Geneva, indeed, service level in Switzerland varies drastically. For me personally however, Orange as a whole has been without exception very very good throughout. And i am very picky.  They took their time on the phone (one time even 1.5hrs!!! speaking about life, mobile phones, network coverages and you name it) just like in the shops.

When it comes to Restaurants, hotels, taxi's etc. Swiss service, comparatively, is very bad. BUT, and here it comes, it is in the end very personal, and somehow    this makes at least parts up. 

Last thing to add: if you happen to have a dick of a customer service representative, it's very simple: ask for his manager. Believe me, he will all of a sudden stand straight and change his tone of voice. Constructive criticism/ complaining helps, vulgarity doesn't, even if it could be passionately enticing to do so at times...

Never had bad service in Switzerland even if i dont speak the language. I find that when im nice and polite and try to speak in French i get what i want.

Just came back from a restaurant where i got a free course just because i asked nicely

How pleasantly refreshing !!!

Orange?? what's Orange? 

That’s been my opinion for quite some time now.  Innovation has never been encouraged here, so any

Swiss with a vision finds him/herself obliged to go d where their talent is appreciated – abroad.  I’ve known several Swiss who, having made that choice, have told me that they would never have been so successful had they stayed in their own backyard.

With such a brain-drain, the hotel and tourist industries in the doldrums and the know-it-all banking system in tatters, CH could find itself fighting for survival but nobody appears to care or even to be aware of this.

Still, if it does all go pear-shaped, I guess their traditional mercenary skills could be resuscitated since it’s more than probable theere’ll be plenty of job opportunities in that sector for some time yet.

R.

Max, maybe i misread your original post, but it did seem that you cancelled your account because of that incident in the shop, which gave me the impression that you were sort of banging your fists. Maybe I got it wrong.

I do believe that the level of service we receive does depend on the mindset we have on going in to the shop, restaurant or what ever venue, if we go in with the attitude, of everybody in switzerland provides piss poor service and have a fixed negative mindset towards the type of people that are serving us, I think we pick up more and amplify any tiny little negativity, and then declare within a split second "see! Typical!"

if we had had a moor positive or even neutral attitude the experience may have been different.

I'm not saying this is what happened with you max, but it is something I see commonly, very often the person I see ranting o. About how bad things are in a shop normally has a bad attitude themselves. I also work in the service industry and when i have had to speak to a client about their attitude Or behaviour, I'm the one that is made out to be rude.

When I talked about the USA having a service culture, I do see that their job security is based on their performance, and the mantra that the client is king has also brought in an attitude amongst quite a few people I have met that it means the client is always right no matter what and has bred a very unpleasent clientele. Which is a shock forthem when I tell them (politely) where they can stick their attitude and unrealistic attitude.

Geneva, I have found, is not service orientated, although it is slowly becoming more service orientated, I very often get the impression that them being available in shops or restaurants is doing us a favour and we should be grateful to them, which is why I never expect service, and am always pleased when I do, and never feel I have had bad service.

that being said there are always people who totally suck at what they do.

I received good service in Orange. But in general, I find the service in Geneva businesses lacking.

There you go!

@max you approached a group of cool and cruel girls when you were fifteen? Respect.

And nice Simpsons reference, too. "Numbah Eight. <burp> Numbah Eight. <burp> Numbah Eight. <burp>"

But, I think you are mistaken. Had you asked for a prostitute to be sent to your room, you probably would have had a selection of available ones waiting for you when you got off the elevator. But, your luggage?! That's just obscene!

I find it telling that the "service" rep didn't want to write down the reason for cancelling your account. That way, the higher up mucky-mucks won't know that there's a problem with service.

I think I found the problem in your argument, Max: You honestly think there is a VP of Customer Service. Therein lies the problem.

@dj_symcard banging fists.....they are not scared of being sued or losing their job. They are worried about a customer causing a scene. If there are 10-20 people in the store and someone starts raising their voice about their complaint, people turn their heads and *even* if the customer is nuts, it can look bad for the company. If the customer raises their voice and says simple, short sentences about the problem - à la "This product is broken, it's under warranty - why are you refusing to repair it?" - it *is* bad for the company.

@bustan i like your idea about pointing out very politely but very firmly, but honestly, how? The arrogance/lack of respect displayed by both parties (the one helping me and the one interrupting him) indicates that whatever one might say would fall on deaf ears. "Excuse me, you are helping me. Please finish with me before speaking to your colleague." "Just a moment, sir." And then?

That being said, I've often noticed/realized that our 3-5 minute interactions with people are seen as isolated incidents, when in reality they are not. Perhaps the service rep told the other colleague earlier in the day "let me know as soon as you get a response on the warranty repair" or "can you call sales and find out....?"

"service culture" The US is very much a service-oriented culture - "Customer is king" - which is why we Americans can feel so out of place in other countries. Someone who is providing service, for a monthly fee, should be interested in keeping my business, right? It's only "logical." So when such companies don't have such attitudes, we are surprised.

@richardm teenager? I thought it sounded more like 4th grade.

@martin you did mention India, btw.

@franky asking for the manager - classic American gambit. But, I must admit, I'm surprised at how unsuccessful I've been trying it. Here, when I ask for a rep's name and/or to talk to the manager, they steadfastly refuse both. There is *no* way to report back later that a rep was rude, was unhelpful, cut me off, or anything. No name, no Rep #, no case number, nothing. So the best you could theoretically say is "I called at around this time on this date and spoke to some guy/girl with a french/german/italian accent." That's gonna go nowhere. And as far as speaking to managers, in my experience, I've always been lucky enough to be speaking directly to the CEO, because I'm always told that they have no superior. I wish I were CEO.

@nir not to put to fine a point on it, but Orange is a glocals partner, so I'm not surprised that you receive good service.

What is boils down to is: (Virtual) Monopolies suck. There are basically three cell phone/internet providers in town. *Every*one gets internet and a cell phone these days, so there is *no* need to chase after customers. They will come to you. First they'll choose one company, then they'll switch, then they'll switch again. <sigh> Or, because it's such a pain to change your phone number (friends, business cards, website verification data, etc.), people will just suffer more or less in silence.

I like your (Max's) idea of starting this thread and getting responses, but because threads have a tendency to degenerate into completely different topics, you might want to post on the Guides section. Or find an existing entry to contribute to. These have 1-5 star ratings. And people can add to them over time, more succinctly than a thread would allow.

With regards to India - I indeed said it - my apologies and I stand corrected.

Tell you all what's unique about this thread: it didn't escalate into the usual personal fight, even tho it had the potential to.

When Martin posted the "stop blaming CH" post, I was sure (based on past experiences) he'd get attacked, he's re-attack, and a war would start. 

But the discussion that followed was actually pretty good, and stayed cool and respectful. Good to see this from all sides. And good on you Martin for being big enough to manage it well.

Nir

I find this thread hightly interesting, and what's the need for yet an other fight. I sometimes just feels that people are only complaning about this place I/we call home. I make one remark about India and somebody is insulted by it. Glad I'm not even Swiss - I'd be offended the whole day here :-) kidding aside ;-)

It's interesting to see that we all have different experiences here - and it's good to discuss them. I'd liked some of the suggestions - if we moan - we also say something postive :-) It opens my eyes sometimes and it's great to have learned something and appreciate other people's opinions. (now switching my dr. Phil mode off ) 

@ Zonker : How to intervene very politely but very firmly ? Interrupting their conversation (but not in the middle of a sentence) with something along the lines of : “excuse me, but your colleague was helping me, would you mind if we complete our business ?”.

The tone should be respectful and confident, not reproachful or imploring. You just point to a fact, like you would say “excuse me, you forgot your scarf”.

I don’t say it will always work but I don’t see a better strategy.

Surely this wonderful job advert applies to all who work in customer service in the whole of Switzerland?  Very very funny and oh so true.

Zonker,

Genius post.

Very Preying Mantis - you wait for all the best points to be made and BOOYAH! step in with your succinct, pithy resonse.

Do you study Kung Fu?

I like it.

BTW,

I am English and if I were back there I would probably be complaining that it sucks balls.

This Max guy is good!

Tea: I didn't think of that, but could be indeed!

Yes. The service here suxx, ok? But it all will end very very soon http://imgur.com/gallery/Chm5B

@Tea, How can you get a haircut you didn't ask for? I would refuse to pay if someone just slipped up behind me and started chopping away;-)

Holla back at ya Nir,

Some of these threads get very nasty - I've noticed one or two indivuals who seem to thrive on conflict but I guess they live for that kind of thing.

And I second your view of Martin - It's a strong man who can take criticism and not immediately fire back a snotogram.

Interesting, the incorrect application of carrot and stick you say? You must have been speaking to the same donkeys as me!

A customer service experience from a Customer Services Representative (British BTEC certificate)

In September I bought an accountancy book at Payot Lausanne (52 chf). The book was a 2009 edition. When I started my seminar I realised everybody else had the edition 2012.  I came back into Payot to complain about it.

I sent e-mails to the editors, and Payot local and regional offices.

2 Second Answer. Even the fact I have an e-mail from the editors saying the new edition was available from April and old version was removed from magazines, Payot stills sent me  this answer:

Dès début octobre, nous n’avons plus vendu l’ancienne édition et attendu la nouvelle.

Nous pouvons vous assurer que lorsque nous avons une date précise, nous ne mettons plus le livre en pile afin que les clients se dirigent obligatoirement vers un libraire pour avoir l’information.

Translation: From beginning October the book is not in our magazines, waiting for new edition. Therefore customers need to ask our staff.

 Well, sound good I thought. However since this mail dated 23th October I have been in Payot several times. The book is still available. Even worst: They mix editions 2009- 2012 so the only way to see the different is seeking the small code bar in the rear back (I am serious)

                3 Third answer: Today I spoke to Payot  Director at Lausanne after finding again the edition 2009 book in the magazine available without any restriction or indication(and obviously same price than 2012 edition) The answer was “ I am going to see why the book is here, and why editors didn’t collect it”  – That sounds like if I complain about a yoghourt  out of date in Migros and the manager blames on Nestle.

No way, and the ending just glorious” I am going to see what I can do for you” (we are talking about 52 fuc.. chf).

In Spain if somebody takes Payot  into the Consumer Bureau , the magazine is forced to provide an answer. If the answer is not enough the local council itself takes the legal actions.    In Switzerland they don’t care so the government is fully responsible for the lack of quality in customer service, and consequently, responsible for a nationwide problem.

From my own professional experience I can say that the best product is nothing without a reliable, accurate fast moving customer service staff able to go beyond customer expectations.  It is really a shame.  A truly cancer runs deeply inside the Swiss market. Only a breath of economic recession and they will see the consequences very soon. 

For all those who think Swiss service is "bad/crap/shocking/couldn't give a flying-watsits", go and spend some time in the UK.

Actually, save the air fare and just try UK banking online, having a mortgage on line, having a mobile online, booking a flight online - ANYTHING and you will never, ever get to speak to anyone - ever again.  

"You now have 6 options - you now have 5 options - you now have 8 options - you now have 10 options and you will not be able to choose your option until you have listened to all 10 options" - and that was just for a car hire duplicate receipt.

Ring my (Swiss) bank - get to speak to a person without any "options" and get - "Yes, of course, come in next Tuesday and we'll sort it for you" - which may seem a long time away but with my UK bank, I'd still be choosing my sodding "options".

It's just about timing, really.  The Swiss service is SLOW, but that doesn't mean it's "bad" - they get there in the end.....they just take a little bit longer than you're used to.

And for my money - I would rather have a sing-song "Bonjour Madame" as I enter a shop than a "Yaraght".

Or as I experienced in UK Primark last week (yes, I KNOW - my own fault for opening the doors where all humanity ends) when I accidentally dropped a shirt off a hanger the "Customer Services Assistant" asked me "you gonna pick that up, or d'you expect me to do it".

Couldn't get back on that flight to GVA quick enough!

So Carlos, when you went to buy your accountacy book did you ask for advise before buying or just pick up what you expected to be the correct book.

How did you know everyone else had the 2012 edition whilst you had the 2009, did you check everyone's stickers if this is the only apparent way to tell the two apart?

So you bought the wrong copy and now it's Payot's fault for having more then one version?

When I buy dated versions of books, If I find a versions that is apparently published 3 years earlier I automatically ask if there is a later edition if I can't see one, unless I have had the time to research what I want to buy, then I ask if they have any in stock, and if not, when they will be receiving them, and as there are more than one Payot store in Geneva (don't know about Lausanne) I ask if the other store stocks it.

From what you have said in your post so far, it appears that the fault is your own, not Payots.

Carlos, if I have misunderstood your post, please enlighten me on how it was 100% the fault of Payot that you bought a 2009 edition instead of a 2012 edition.

Always check before you buy!

Why don't we all get together and create a site where we list all the places we have received good customer service, a site that is positive, no negative reviews, only places where the service is acceptable to downright frickin awesome.

Negative reviews can be submitted but these will be evaluated, and if found to be valid (some vindictive people out there who love to complain for no reason) the place looses a rating star, if too many valid negative reviews are received the listing is removed. I good rating = 1 rating star (10 max) constant good reviews maintains the 10 stars, if a place has loads of good reviews but still has 5 stars, then you know it is not always hunky dory!

what do people think!

You are proposing a site where "Negative reviews can be submitted but these will be evaluated"

Such as these ? : 

M J - So they are back here on Glocals with a negative review! They also are at Rue de la Gabelle in Acacias and on Avenue de France. Our experience was disastrous, but glocals deleted the negative reviews, ours and others. We complained to the dentists' association inGeneva and the Clinique Dentaire disappeared from glocals. Hopefully, this negative review will now remain.

pie39 - My review appears to have been deleted. I wrote that it is totally money making. The dentist I saw said I needed 'several' fillings' after I had a routine yearly appointment and when I asked her how many was 'several' she looked evasive and said 'about 7 or 8' ! First of all I only ever have had the minimum of one if that per year and secondly why was her answer '7 OR 8'! Surely she should have known by examining each tooth! I wasn't impressed at all and went for a second opinion. I was told I needed ONE. I rest my case.

Trang N - Mine too (review) has been deleted. I went to that Clinique Dentaire de Genève last year. Money money! and tried to make you sign papers for things you don't need.

Max:

I'm with you mate. I'm sometimes amazed when I see how fast some people turn nasty in the forums, at the slightest remark. It strikes me that the same people - probably - would act in a different way in a face-to-face situation. But when we hide behind the PC in the virtual world, it's a lot easier to get mean.

But this thread so far is really decent, despite the explosion potential. Let's hope it stays that way.

Nir

Haha Thanks Guys - almost feel flattered but ...., hahahaha ;-)

As a New Years resolution perhaps people should sometimes take a step back and indeed like Nir said think about how they would react in the real world. That's what I try to keep in mind. I'm 100 pct sure that 99.99999999 pct of the people here actually nice and very decent people. But having said that - some subjects I guess allow for a bit more passion but should never become personal. I remember a certain "keep her where she belongs" where we had heated debates which where up to a certain point enjoyable - but that went sauer unfortunately due to personal attracts and from both sides egos being hurt. I guess we should take the heated debated offline - not delete them - but carry them to the real world and have a food chat over a beer, coke or tea! That would make a brilliant evening!

Well the site is quite simple in my opinion, it is not a listing for whoever to promote their business, it is a place where people post the places where they have received from acceptable to excellent service. Its a site that tells people if you want great service and a good time go there!

Maybe no reviews will be posted, just a ranking system, similar to the michelin guide, as people are different, their experience of the place will be different.

Let me give you an example, myself and my wife enjoy going to the Bistrot de Rhone, we have always received excellent service and enjoy going there time after time, we would add it to the site with a positive rating so it would get 1 star, 9 more people go there give it positive reviews, the place has 10 stars, now someone else goes there and has a negative experience that is clearly due to service failure i.e. they over charged me, charged me for something I didn't have, brought me the wrong food, was extremely rude (bearing in mind that some people receive rude service because they themselves are rude) If it is a founded service failure, they lose a star, not things like they had paper napkins, and they should have been silk, or I didn't like the decoration, or they didn't have a vegetarian option and you were sitting in a steak house! Or the waiter couldn't speak english only french and I don't speak french. Things that have nothing to do with service but personal preferences.

Maybe the site would show for a restaurant 27 reviews but only has 5 stars, you would know it's a hit and miss, and if a place received more negative reviews than positive on consistent issues, then they would be removed from the site.

It's only still an idea in a conception phase, but maybe a good way of letting people know where to go and where not to. There could also be a list of places that were visited but were not able to make the star rating system due to being crap!

So the site would list places people have enjoyed going, and a rating to show as realistically how good they are.

Many possibilities.

On another note I have been to the clinique dentaire at Balexert, always had good service, there were suggestions on how improvements could be made to my teeth and warning signs that I had to watch out for, never had anything shoved down my throat ;) and of course they have to make money, they're a business not a charity or a non profit organisation and really well equipped.

Anyway, anybody interested in developping this?

DJ_Symcard - I get where you're coming from but duplication of effort and reinventing the wheel are two of my pet hates. 

We already have the guides section - http://www.glocals.com/#/guides/lausanne/  and if you want to go off-glocals, there's always http://www.tripadvisor.com/

Like the "Groups" section on glocals where you end up getting duplicate invites for a group you joined way back when and now no longer serves the purpose , another reviewing system/link/whatever for reviews - would be a classic example of wheel reinvention.

"K.I.S.S. - Life's complicated enough"

Hi Carolyn

Thank you for your answer, but my last post was talking about purely a rating system similar to the michelin guide not another site where people post reviews, and it would be independant from glocals.

The problem with trip advisor is employees post fake good reviews on it and customer post fake vindictive reviews (even if they have never been there!) so quickly it becomes a bit useless to really know if something is good or bad. Of course the same would happen on any other site.

Wow, so concerned with customer service in CH?So many worse places that CH or Geneva..

For stores worse place I feel customer services is at Globus, but good services is at COOP city. I suspect that Globus feels its a privilage to shop at there store? And they dont care either way.

For banks, I use Credit Suisse personally and business but recenlty sucked because I was surprised with the lounge area concierge on Rue Lausanne just rude/uninterested/unsmiling to a customer asking some simple questions to open an account, its like he could not be bothered with this guy with Jeans, if he work for me at my bank, he would be fired or serously warned.

if you go to BCGE, I see good help most of the time, again most of the time.

In General , the local Hotels, I feel they are all losing there hospitality and reputation.

The for bars I LIKE Fenomino or 7arts services but in Old Town the service at Spring Brohters was several times unfrienldly. Guess they feel they got some guaranteed business from the tourists??

Funny you say that....I've noticed the same thing.  Forum tough guys who issue threats from their keyboards but when you call them on it i.e. tell them where you'll be and when; they don't have the stones to back it up. 

Mind you, they only get to play that card once and then every man and woman on the forum knows they are a coward.

Err...sorry, my previous post was meant to include this.

Yikes!!!

That's bad even by Orange standards.  I would have gone to court and counter sued, charging them for my time.

I banked with Barclays and they screwed up a transaction which cost me £2,000.  I wrote to them and charged them £30 - can't remember if I called it an 'admin fee' (oh man that felt good).  Fair play to them they paid the 2k plus the 30 quid.

I know I sound like a Rage Against The Machine song, but as customers we really need to take our power back.

I know there is a bit of a monopoly but even here I don't think one company would be happy to lose a couple hundred customers.

I got an email from a friend in the UK.  It was one of those 'send this to all your friends' type emails.  In it, the organiser asked everyone who received the email not to use a certain petrol station (Esso or something) for one week.  It was intended to be a bit of a shock wake up call.  I wasn't living in the uk at the time so I didn't know if it worked or not but I thought it was a genius idea.

Yes I have been warned that when I leave France I will find it extremely difficult to cancel my Orange contract, a friend told me they just ignored letters he sent whilst at the same time telling him he was not allowed to cancel in the shop or by phone and it had to be done by letter (two months in advance, but given they ignored his letters the two months needed was already gone....eventually they gave in and let him cancel on the spot but it sounded like he really had to argue a lot with them!).

Gosh! If the Germans had applied to France to invade we could ave avoided WW2.

Apologies Symcard - when you said "create a site" I thought you meant......well..... "create" a site, rather than add a rating system to an existing site (which I would be in favour of).

My misinterpretation.

Q. Do "kids" now say "my bad" because they can't spell "misinterpretation"? - I digress, but just a thought....

According to Basil Fawlty it was Poland, but I think they have Orange there too;-)

My bad comes from the German, mine bad, so maybe they're better rather than worse educated and in a different discipline.... those kids.

@Robi: I disgaree. In France, the customer is king. But then, we all know what happens to les rois in la France... 

On a more serious note, 

Oops, just realised I posted that without the last part: On a more serious note, I believe cultural & socio-economic aspects play a large role. Geneva has a huge floating population & France is the most visited country.

Declaring to these guys that "I will no longer require your services," is usually - giving them an easy way out. I've found (especially in dealing with French administration) that, the worst you could do is keep a smile, be curt...show irritation by turning excessively formal (in French) as if you're already typing out a letter in your mind.

Unlike many other places, any negative emotion shown only works against you.

Hahahahaaaa!  No it doesn't!  I knew this already, but here's an "official" quote from the Urban Dictionary:

Shocking comments!

Once more I feel like intervening as some comments are really unfair.

1. Have you thought about downsizing? How can you offer a flawless service when 30% of the team has been fired to satisfy the shareholder's greed? We all experience this to a certain extent and we know how difficult it is to cope with an everincreasing workload and diminishing workforce.

2. What language do you use when approaching a sales assistant? Not everyone speaks English and using French can make a big difference. Try it!

3. As I always point out, there are huge differences between Geneva and the rest of Switzerland. Geneva is clearly the worst in quality service but it is still ok compared with some neighbouring countries I will not quote so as not to offend anyone and where you have at least 1 hour queuing before getting served at the Orange shop.

4. In reply to Max B:

"Thing is I think Switzerland would struggle without foreigners both in the commercial and academic worlds. I worked for a company here that was made up mainly of foreigners as the knowledge/expertise and, worst of all mindset, was just not available among the Swiss workforce."

Fact  is we are a small country and need highly qualified labour in some areas but it does not mean the Swiss are stupid and under-qualified. Maybe we have too many students choosing studying psychology and history and not enough in  high tech and life sciences. To compensate this we need to hire people from the whole world. Most football clubs in the world hire foreign players to win the championships. It is just the same.

However, remember that Switzerland has two universities (EPFL in Lausanne and Zurich) ranking among the top ten in the world and they are not composed of 80% foreign students as you might figure out.

Besides, some foreign HRM seem to prefer hiring natives from their own countries as they are more familiar with the diplomas and training they get there. 

Thing is: times are changing and service is getting overall worse but this is the same in most countries. I recognize there is much to be said about the service in Geneva and this is not acceptable.

Being a Swiss does not give you any advantage as you might think. We have the same problems with the administration, bank, shops as you have. Plus we have to do 4 months compulsory military service or pay 3% of our salary to the state until we get 42. And many Swiss friends had to delocate to France to get a  flat at an affordable price. 

We are all on the same boat called Earth with diminishing resources and we face the same global issues. 

Personally - and this is my 8th year here - I have found customer service to be very good here. But you need to speak French, understandably so methinks given our host country is francophone. 

Well, two things, emilie :

1) If you had to speak the local language for having good service in one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, that would mean: service sucks, and sucks a LOT. When service is good, people try to be helpful, even if you speak only Tagalog, Aymara or Ewondo and they only know kyniarwanda, ahmaric or newari.

2) Let's break the news : that's not the problem. The language you speak (or don't) is not the issue. If you don't get good service here or there, it's not because you don't speak our local dialect. We native French speakers are treated just like you : sometimes very good, often in an average way, and once in a while very bad.

That's it. We Swiss are probably wolrld champions for democracy, maybe for chocolate (don't shoot at me, my Belgians friends, I said "maybe"), certainly not for service. I just hope your protests will help improve it.

And a happy Xmas to you too.....

Bustan: very well put.

 When I first arrived fresh from London, i was very polite as that is the way in which I was brought up. This approach did not work as some sales staff in Geneva seem to take a sadistic approach in belittling customers. Ironic as without customers, they would be unemployed!  Having worked as a Saturday girl at Marks and Spencer when at uni, I know all about good customer service.  Today I don't take any prisoners when faced with objectionable sales staff, I am always polite and explain what i want in French and if they still continue to be obnoxious then i ask to see the manager. Often a miracle then occurs and the 'vendeur' transforms from a rotweiler into a puppy!!!!

If we don't complain, then nothing improves, Geneva is a cosmopolitan town and this should also be refected in its customer service. 

Just to add that I have also had fantastic service in Geneva. And I have only had to ask to speak to the manager on very rare occasions. It is not alway fun to have to pander to clients who are very demanding either!