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Swiss Gun control - How much is Bull S**t

Nov 28, 2009 @ 15:04

his was sent to me by email. Obviously the part about Switzerland is Bull. But, can anyone debunk the other claims. 20 million Russian dissidents exterminated sounds a little hard to believe mathematically. And I thought it was 6 million Jews and thousands in Cambodia not hundreds of thousands.

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
> In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.. From 1929 to 1953,
> about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
> up and exterminated.
>
> In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million
> Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
> exterminated.
>
> Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a
> total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves
> were
> rounded up and exterminated.
>
> China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
> political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
> and exterminated
>
> Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000
> Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
> and exterminated.
>
> Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
> Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
> and exterminated
>
> Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million
> educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up
> and exterminated.
>
> Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
> because of gun control: 56 million.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced
> by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by
> their own Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers
> more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:
>
> List of 7 items:
>
> Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
>
> Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.
>
> Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
>
> In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300
> percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
> criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
>
> While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in
> armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the
> past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is
> unarmed.
>
> There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the
> ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
> safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was
> expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The
> Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
>
> You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
> disseminating this information.
>
> Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
> gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens
>
> Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
>
> The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them
> of this history lesson.
>
> With guns, we are 'citizens.' Without them, we are 'subjects'.
>
> During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they
> knew most Americans were ARMED!
>
> Communist Doctrine says that they must DISARM
> the Population, before they can dominate them!
>
> If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control
> message to all of your friends.
>
> The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in
> defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more
> important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is
> supplemental.
>
>
> SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
> AND They Train every Adult that they issue a Rifle
>
> SWITZERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF
> ANY CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!
>
> IT'S A NO BRAINER! DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT
> WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS IN
> AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.
>
> I'm a firm believer of the 2nd Amendment!
>
> If you are too, please forward.
>
> Just think how powerful our government is getting!
> They are out of Control!
> They think these other countries just didn't do it right.
> We MUST keep our Constitution and especially the 1st and 2nd Amendments
> INTACT!
>
> Don't let them take it away from us!!!
>
> Learn from history.
>
> FOOTNOTE: NYC & WASHINGTON, DC HAVE HAD STRICT GUN CONTROL
> LAWS FOR MANY YEARS. THEY ARE 2 OF THE HIGHEST CRIME RIDDEN CITIES
> IN AMERICA. ANY IDEA WHY?
>
>
>
>
>
>

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niceguyNov 28, 2009 @ 15:04

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Re: Swiss Gun control - How much is Bull S**t

Post 1

Nov 28, 2009 @ 16:02

I'm against weapons in general, be it small arms or mass destruction weapons. Even if Switzerland may have one of the lowest gun related crime rates, think about its population and economy. Which doesn't mean that weapons made here are not used to kill people in countries where they are exported to. Swizterland is known for its riffle production. Ironically, a neutral country with the UN headquarters...

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Marz, Nov 28, 2009 @ 16:02

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Re: Swiss Gun control - How much is Bull S**t

Post 2

Nov 28, 2009 @ 17:42

It all fits into place finally - it's obvious, that's why the Swiss state isn't rounding up and executing portions of it's own population, because with everyone tooled up like Govnr Arnie circa Commando they're too scared. Otherwise you know, it'd be a slaughterhouse. I say give everyone more and heavier weapons, just to make sure.

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rich_t, Nov 28, 2009 @ 17:42

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Post 3

Nov 28, 2009 @ 22:59

a little lesson in cause and effect could be in order.

The author of this fear-mongering piece says "Country A established gun control in 19xx. Later, may people were killed."

There is no specific link between the two, but it's phrased as if there is a direct link.

"gun control" can have so many different meanings: 1) private citizens are not allowed to have guns. 2) people must have a background check to have a gun. 3) people can have as many guns as they want, but they just have to register / license it.

So, "gun control" does not mean that no one has guns.

Next, in the examples above, how many people had guns and gave them up? Maybe only 12 people had a gun, so whether or not they kept their guns would not have affected how many were "rounded up and exterminated".

Yes, criminals will always find a way to get a gun. Sometimes, though, they get a gun they find while robbing your house, so when you come home after your anniversary dinner, you get shot with your own gun.

You can come up with any scenario you want. And they all sound much worse when WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS!

<sigh>

The text you are quoting:

a little lesson in cause and effect could be in order.

The author of this fear-mongering piece says "Country A established gun control in 19xx. Later, may people were killed."

There is no specific link between the two, but it's phrased as if there is a direct link.

So, "gun control" does not mean that no one has guns.

You can come up with any scenario you want. And they all sound much worse when WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS!

<sigh>

Zonker, Nov 28, 2009 @ 22:59

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Re: Swiss Gun control - How much is Bull S**t

Post 4

Nov 30, 2009 @ 02:43

a little lesson in cause and effect could be in order.

The author of this fear-mongering piece says "Country A established gun control in 19xx. Later, may people were killed."

There is no specific link between the two, but it's phrased as if there is a direct link.

So, "gun control" does not mean that no one has guns.

You can come up with any scenario you want. And they all sound much worse when WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS!

<sigh>

Nov 28, 09 22:59

Well, the 2nd-last paragraph is only half-right, IMHO ;-)

Burglars rarely want to meet the owners of the property they "visit".

So, even if they find your gun (ammunition has to be stashed away somewhere else, IIRC), they are not going to "wait" for you returning. The gun-shot (well, it's not a gun but really a high-tech semi-automatic rifle - see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_SG_550) will wake-up the whole neighborhood (all people with the same rifle ...) and that's the last thing they want.

So, take a look at the above wikipedia article and think twice before you argue with an angry swiss neighbor about cat-littler or noise ;-))))

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Well, the 2nd-last paragraph is only half-right, IMHO ;-)

Burglars rarely want to meet the owners of the property they "visit".

So, take a look at the above wikipedia article and think twice before you argue with an angry swiss neighbor about cat-littler or noise ;-))))

rainer_d, Nov 30, 2009 @ 02:43

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Re: Swiss Gun control - How much is Bull S**t

Post 5

Nov 30, 2009 @ 10:36

It should be easy enough to find counterexamples. After a little bit of wikipedia, here's what I found:

Japan - very strict gun control laws, to the point it's almost impossible for a private citizen to own a gun. And gun-related crimes, and crime in general, is very low.

Colombia - I didn't find exact data on gun control laws, but I would assume they aren't too strict. Gun-related crime, and crime in general, is so high it's scary.

Trying to prove a point using statistics is always fun, with a bit of data mining you can link anything. Maybe Switzerland has the lowest gun crime rates because of the highest amount of mountains? Maybe because of yodeling? But I would personally think that it must be linked to chocolate production. If you have lots of quality chocolate available, wouldn't you feel less inclined to go out and commit a gun crime? I would say "it's a no brainer" like that original post.

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It should be easy enough to find counterexamples. After a little bit of wikipedia, here's what I found:

Japan - very strict gun control laws, to the point it's almost impossible for a private citizen to own a gun. And gun-related crimes, and crime in general, is very low.

Colombia - I didn't find exact data on gun control laws, but I would assume they aren't too strict. Gun-related crime, and crime in general, is so high it's scary.

Jouni, Nov 30, 2009 @ 10:36

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