Hi Hayes.

Im afraid I dont know of any local Twitter groups, but, maybe you oculd explain the cocept of Twitter in a few words here?

I know that Twitter is very popular, but I never really understood the attraction.

Thanks

Oded
SiteAdmin Oded, Apr 2, 2008 @ 22:05

[quote][b]isa413 (02/04/2008)[/b][hr]

Twitter is a service for friends, family, and co–workers to communicate and stay connected through the exchange of quick, frequent answers to one simple question: What are you doing?[/quote]

Thanks Isa

I know what Twitter is (sort of) - I just dont understand why it is so popular.

Most of the time, sadly, what Im doing is pretty boring stuff -
Why would I want to share this with my family friends and co-workers?  And why would I want them to share everything they do with me?

Maybe Twitter is for people with moire exciting lives than me...

O

 
SiteAdmin Oded, Apr 2, 2008 @ 22:33

OK, I'm going to try and keep this to the point.



Sure, it's a bit like both of you say. If you look at a random person's twitter page, chances are it'll say something like:

'just jointed twitter' -- six months ago

'why would anyone care what I'm doing' -- about a year ago.

'twitter? shitter more like!' -- etc.



You're absolutely right; from the outside it looks totally meaningless.



Firstly, when someone first joins, they wil l of course have no friends. Nobody will be following them and nobody will read what they write. Of course it's pointless if nobody reads what you say. That's why people give up immediately.



Secondly, the major mistake is to take the question too literally. It's like anything. The closest-to-the-truth answer to the question 'what are you doing?' is, unfortunately, 'typing in a box', 'updating my twitter'. You don't really say things like 'standing here talking to you' when the phone rings and someone asks what you're doing.



You have to be at least a little bit creative. You have to write things in a way that people (people who you do and do not know) may actually want to read them. The key is that it's blogging, aggregation, what's going on in the world as you see it. not just what you're doing. It's just 140 characters so verbosity is to be avoided. You can see it like any kind of blog or aggregator, but only 140 characters and hopefully a little bit of creativity.



Everyone, more or less, has arrived at the conclusion that Facebook is a dreary waste of time and bandwidth. It's just crappy apps, right. The only thing that's actually remotely interesting is Friends' status updates. Well, one out of three may be interesting. Provided they actually write something worthwhile. Now your Twitter homepage (on the web, that is) will be a (micro)blog aggregation of everything written, posted, linked to by everyone you follow. It will look like a list of status updates but more interesting. Occasionally someone will write 'eating chocolate' but hopefully they will be in the minority. ;) But due to the less than 140 characters requirement, it updates in your instant messenger client, or your cellphone, or any special app you may have to handle it. Because it's < 140 characters, you can update it yourself very quickly, through the web, your IM client, cellphone. You don't have to proof read everything like with a full blogs entry. And you can react to other twitterers in realtime, as with IM. It appears that quite few bloggers augment their main blog with Twitter for very rapid stuff.



Actually I'm pretty new to it myself -- I was also very skeptical in the beginning. But after about 5 people got into it it started to get a bit worthwhile. I mean, you have you IM client running anyway... I was wondering if there were (m)any local/glocal users.



I have actually been 'tracking' tweets containing the word geneva and geneve for the last day or so and traffic has been minimal. Since writing that first post I have been tracking the word glocals. Traffic has been zero.
hayes, Apr 3, 2008 @ 00:22

Sorry, it's kind of difficult to explain the attraction in less than 140 characters. How about this:



blog / status / network but with huge scope for realtime interaction



that must have been about 70 or so.
hayes, Apr 3, 2008 @ 00:30

Thanks alot Hayes, very good explanation.

I actualy like the status updates on FB too. 

I dont think Ill be Twittering any time soon, but adding Status Updates on glocals might be a nice idea...

Have  agreat week

Oded
SiteAdmin Oded, Apr 3, 2008 @ 02:10

Here's what my Twitter entry would look like for today. It looked the same yesterday, and will look the same tomorrow.

07h00: alarm goes off
07h10: girlfriend asks me to make love. I say I can't cos I got a long day ahead.
08h00: drop kid at school
09h00: arrive at work
09h01-19h00: work like a dog
19h30: arrive home.
19h31: girlfriend asks me to make love. I say I can't cos I got some more work.
19h32: logon to glocals. Speak with SiteAdmin about next features, answer emails, etc.
23h: go to bed.
23h01:  girlfriend asks me again. I tell her she knows I had a long day and that I'm dead tired. 
23h02: girlfriend insists. So we make love.
23h03: We finish making love. 
23h03-24h: I come up with excuses for my less-than-impressive performance.
24h01: lights out.  

So now you see why I don't write on Twitter...:)
Nir Ofek, Apr 3, 2008 @ 10:38

i don't see the twitter attraction either.

especially now, that i see what the entries from nir and bedrock might look like.

mind, not that mine would look any more interesting.
pink_bunny, Apr 3, 2008 @ 11:21

Well, like I said: you gotta make an effort.



I think Nir is missing the point somewhat. According to his schedule, he has prime Twittertime between 09h01 and 19h00.



There have been *some* useful applications. The Los Angeles fire department, for example. And the Tibetan protestors circumventing the Great Firewall of China. Of course, the average user doesn't drag people out of burning buildings or alert the world to major injustices.
hayes, Apr 3, 2008 @ 11:39

[quote][b]hayes (03/04/2008)[/b][hr]I think Nir is missing the point somewhat. According to his schedule, he has prime Twittertime between 09h01 and 19h00.[/quote]

Hayes, I have the time indeed, but not the interesting content...:)

Here's what my Twitter account would read like from 09h01 - 19h00:

09h01: Greet Boss with a 'good morning Sir'
09h02-11h: Tell Boss I love his plans
11h-12h: Tell Boss I think his new ideas are fantastic
12h-14h: Invite Boss to lunch (I pay)
14h-16h: Think of ways to distance myself from the last failed project.
16h-18h: Convince Boss I had nothing to do with the last project. It wasn't me, honest!
18h-18h59: Wait for Boss to leave, so that I can leave too.
18h59: Boss leaves.
19h: I leave.

My Boss is probably reading this too, and I know he's a cool funny guy who will take it lightly...(-:
Nir Ofek, Apr 3, 2008 @ 11:50

I'm with Nir and Bedrock and others ... Twitter is yet another way to spend the day on trivialities.  People - get out in the real world.  I did catch the LA Fire Dept. article a while ago - they would be better off spending their time and money fighting fires ... "sorry, can't rescue you yet, have to twitter to my adoring public first"  Only in LA!

Seriously, I'm still waiting for somebody, anybody, to start making any kind of money from Web2.0.  Right now all we seem to have is a bunch of time-wasting anti-social apps and toys that are simply driving us towards "the next big thing".

Ricardo. :hehe:
saxonchap, Apr 3, 2008 @ 12:33

Isn't Web 2.0 just a buzzword for the emergence for networking on the web? Really what's the difference between that and pre 2.0? Apart from hype? I mean, there have been forums in one form or another on the web since forever ago.



OK, there's a stack of huge sites right? So many it's boring to list them; we all know who they are. You can link them together, share this, share that, photos, music, blah blah, communicate whatever to whomever.



But amongst the myriad of things you can choose to join (or choose to ignore the 100th invite to join), it's important not to lose sight of one fact: OF COURSE THEY ARE JUST TOYS! The actual *use* of Facebook doesn't really extend much beyond an address book. The *use* of last.fm doesn't tell you any more than looking at a gig listing.



It's useless to pretend they're anything beyond toys. What next big thing? Nobody actually believes that do they?



As for making money... I don't see how it really differs from business off the web. You know, if you've got an idea that nobody else has had, that people may want to put some time into, then it will make money if you do it right, do it first, and crush everyone else. If it's on the web or off. To say that nobody has made money out of 2.0 seems, well, wrong. Sure *hardly anyone* has made money out of 2.0. Some that have though, have made quite a lot. I guess the difference is, if you start a service business in the real world, you can build it up over a decade. Realistically in WWW terms you have to do it right and do it right immediately. You have only really got one shot.



If anything, the fact that MySpace doesn't look much like IRC is more indicative of the limited lifetimes of all the 2.0 Apps. Doesn't the fact that we're even talking about "Web 2.0" indicate that all these things are just flashes.



But if you like, you can play with the toys while they are around. Of course you don't have to.
hayes, Apr 3, 2008 @ 14:29

Wow, your chocolates really are filled with the entirety of literature. You should use them to your advantage.



Also, LOL@ Nir's portrayal of the bootlicking grind that represents the nine-to-five. Or the nine-to-seven in his case. Man, that's no way to make a liiivin'.



Also also, for the record, I'm not actually trying to persuade anyone to join anything. I was just kind of interested in Geneva/glocals usage.





hayes, Apr 3, 2008 @ 14:44

[quote][b]isa413 (03/04/2008)[/b][hr]...I am sure

Twitter will catch on.. [/quote]

 

Isa:
you need to stop spening time on the chocolats, and begin reading more of the web 2.0 news...Twitter is among the most popular 1000 web sites in the world, and has caught on like a wild fire a long time ago.

 

Hayes:
It's not a life indeed bro, but it pays the rent...

 

 
Nir Ofek, Apr 3, 2008 @ 15:09

Isa,

I always did wonder why I am such a chocaholic ... I just hope it's the lust/lust/sex part as opposed to the death/crime/violence part :D  Actually, I'm about 30,000 words into writing my first ever novel, a love story - I could really use chocolate....

Hayes

Absolutely on your feeback - dog eat dog on the internet world.  It's rare I get time to read and respond in forums, let alone play with new toys - and I'm an Oracle software/data architect too (service management) in the real world ... and for the record, actually do have to consider whether an API to tools such as Twitter would be good or indifferent ...  You're right about buzzwords and hype, but this kind of innovation typically does always lead somewhere.  The "next-big-thing" has been client-server, internet, and yes, social networking (aka Web2.0).  The pressure though (as you mention) is to create logins from invites on 100+ different web sites and applications ... is my email/password combo secure any more - no - certainly not.  Perhaps the next big thing is really the OpenID or whatever it's called, whereby MySpace, Google and others are basically providing a single-sign-on platform.  Now that makes sense (if one ignores ID theft, privacy laws etc. blah blah).

Ricardo.
saxonchap, Apr 3, 2008 @ 15:27

I’ve been an active twitterer for about a week, and I’m loving it! The only thing I find enjoyable on facebook nowadays is the status updates (updating my own and browsing others), and Twitter is like all status updates, and no bullshit (which facebook is full of).



But that’s not all. It’s also like a tiny, tiny blog, which doesn’t take much time or energy but which challenges your literary talent in a really fun way, if you want it to.

Also, it’s a great way to keep in touch with your friends without having to make much effort. And if you’ve got friends with imaginative minds, that’s of course a bonus.



But then again, this form of micro-blogging isn’t for everyone, and if you don’t enjoy the whole status update thing on facebook for example, then you probably won’t see the point in twittering either. Having said that though, I still think there seem to be a lot of misconceptions about Twitter and what it’s all about on this thread –

like Nir for example: It’s not an online diary where you describe the activities of the day; it’s a micro blog! Try it! You might surprise yourself;). And it’s often the people with the busiest jobs that are the most active twitterers, so don’t use that as an excuse!

charlotta, Apr 4, 2008 @ 01:41

Charlotta:  

OK, you make a convincing case for it, and I'm going to give it a try.

I'd love to also see your Twitter posts (and Hayes'): how do I find you guys on Twitter?

Nir
Nir Ofek, Apr 4, 2008 @ 10:20

[quote]Hayes

I am fascinated by your mind and your knowledge, both my brothers are ‘nerds’ and Highly respected in their field, even my father is a ‘nerd’ (though also a religious fanatic Belonging to a weird sect – but that is another story).If you have a brilliant idea that needs financial backing – let me know ![/quote]



Fascinated? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Although you should know, I don't react well to the N word. IT'S NOT TRUE, DESPITE WHAT THEY MIGHT SAY! If respect in the field is some kind of a rating on the nerd-scale, I'm demonstrably not a nerd: I'm all but completely ignored in my field. So that's a combination of :) and :(



As for money-spinning ideas, it's OK. I've got a working model with almost zero overheads: I just trawl expat forums and use my charm to get people to finan...





[quote]

I'd love to also see your Twitter posts (and Hayes'): how do I find you guys on Twitter?

[/quote]



Oh, man! There's nothing worse then being told to put your money where your mouth is! You may be about to find yourself proven right in this whole debate. Follow statist on Twitter.

hayes, Apr 4, 2008 @ 13:45

OK. Should Nir or any other skeptics decide to test Twitter I suggest at least a cursory read of the following:



1. Do not rely solely upon the web interface. Don't actively pursue updates but rather let them come to you. If you're actively F5-ing a page and it's not changing, you're gonna get annoyed and bored very quick.



2. Instead, you should do at least one of the following:

+ receive updates by instant messenger (twitter talks and listens on Gtalk, Jabber (which is odd cos I thought Gtalk *was* Jabber), and LiveJournal protocols)

+ install the (really very pretty) Twitterific application if you're using OS X. The blue bird really is cute.

+ import the twitter app to NetVibes if you are using it. Maybe there's one for iGoogle too. Dunno.



The importance of this is that by doing 2, you don't need to do 1. Tweets come to you instantly -- you don't need to go and get them. Relying one web means you will either be disappointed or you will be late to the conversation (probably).



3. Go straight to 'find and follow' to look for anyone in you gmail/yahoo/whatevermail address book that is already there.



4. Find some public streams to follow. If you are following any bloggers, see if they are also sub-140ing (I just made 'sub-140ing' up. I hope it'll catch on). This will produce at least some activity from day 1.



5. Really you shouldn't expect it to be mega active in the very early stages. People give up because precisely because it is not. It is hard to stick with it if you are using the web interface. But if you set to twitter to talk in your IM client (I assume you've always got a client running) then you can more-or-less forget about it.



6. I also recommend you have a look at the public timeline every now and again. 50% of it is in some language you don't understand. 98% of the remainder is crap. But sometimes there are some real lolarific gems in there.



7. If there are any keywords you think are interesting, you can 'track' them. Track just searches all public tweets for keywords and dumps them on your device.



8. Tell all your friends.



Remember you heard sub-140ing here first!





hayes, Apr 4, 2008 @ 14:30

tumblr or pownce, anyone? :D
hayes, Apr 4, 2008 @ 14:34

ISA .... No network No connection ?

What a fabulous idea - I can go and walk on the beach and have a normal life instead ?

Thank you thank you :D

PS: Bill Gates - the opinion is varied - do you know how much more productive we could be if the business world wasn't stuck with rectifying all the crap that comes out of MS?  Of course, we wouldn't be productive at all without MS ... two sides to the coin, as always.  Except, Bill Gates stole his original idea(s) - and it shows - given that MS has missed the whole Internet boat over the last few years .... Regardless, I sure wouldn't mind a piece of his pie though ...

Oops ... Was that too much for Twitter?
saxonchap, Apr 4, 2008 @ 15:59

 

Nope - tell me more ?
saxonchap, Apr 4, 2008 @ 16:00

[quote]Charlotta:



OK, you make a convincing case for it, and I'm going to give it a try.



I'd love to also see your Twitter posts (and Hayes'): how do I find you guys on Twitter?



Nir[/quote]



I love twitter! I've been on it since last June and like Hayes said there were quite a few months between my initial tweets, but now I tweet by text and web. It's a lot of fun and as I've been slowly backing off of Facebook, this is a more than great substitute. Now if only more of my friends would join.



I only follow people I actually know and I've been debating about going private.



And yeah, guess what my username is?! ;)
misskate, Apr 4, 2008 @ 16:27

Isa:

The gag in your previous post -- if it was intentional, well spotted! Edgy!



And the approach of could I live happily ever after without the WWW is not really fair. I mean, if it's just me that's being cut from the internet, or is the plug being pulled on the whole web? Of course I wouldn't like to be disconnected while it all continues without me. And I have to pay full price for phone calls, wait in the queue with all the blue-rinse brigade to pay a simple bill, and be out of literally every communication loop with my friends.



If we were all de-webbed, I dunno, it probably wouldn't be *so* bad. We'd have to use the telephone. It would make work a factor of 10 more difficult. Having to actually read print journals. I have almost never done that. And books of abstracts and keywords. Ew - no thanks. But again, if it's the same for everyone, I guess... I might actually be a bit better off. Or at least more focussed. Fewer distractions. Much less influence from text that's poorly (or not at all) edited. There would be no wikipedia - that would be harsh.



Isa; saxonchap:

Gates is a tough character, isn't he?



>>>> Of course, we wouldn't be productive at all without MS



WHAT???!!!



Like you said: they stole the idea. Was that the DR Dos thing? It was kind of before my time. So clearly there was no need for MS Dos since DR dos was in place before M$ did the dirty on Digital Research. There were other alternatives to early Windows. Hold on, was OS/2 also developed by Gates et al? WordStar had been ported to Dos.



Apple had already made some very functional GUIs.



The Linux kernel was released in '91. Admittedly MS may have even have had it sewn up even back then. But since Linux was a reaction to MINIX, not to Windows, you could assume its existence to be completely independent. Also admittedly, it still hasn't really reached the home-user but I ran it at home for a while without too many hickups. But, like Isa said...



How many WWW/Mailservers are running GPL license systems and how many are running IIS/WinServer? Is it evens? Are the unices even in the lead? I don't know the numbers but it certainly wasn't reflective of desktop usage last time I did.



We wouldn't be at all productive without MS? Come on! The other alternatives would have had at least a bit more room to move. Business is business, after all. People still would have needed wordprocessors, databases, games, etc. I've been, more or less, M$-free for quite a while now. Life's OK without them :)
hayes, Apr 4, 2008 @ 16:45

Ha! Yes! Hi Misskate, glad you could make it to this thread. Since I had more than three followers, followees, I've hardly touched Facebook.



Hope you enjoy(d) the walk home ;)
hayes, Apr 4, 2008 @ 16:49

[quote]Ha! Yes! Hi Misskate, glad you could make it to this thread. Since I had more than three followers, followees, I've hardly touched Facebook.



Hope you enjoy(d) the walk home ;)[/quote]



I like your background! Until I saw your page, I had no idea that was customizable! Admittedly, I haven't explored too much. I will be uploading my own background tonight.
misskate, Apr 4, 2008 @ 17:30

[quote]



OK, you make a convincing case for it, and I'm going to give it a try.



I'd love to also see your Twitter posts (and Hayes'): how do I find you guys on Twitter?



[/quote]



That's more like it, Nir! If you give it an honest try and still think it's shit, then fine, I believe you.

Oh, and my twitter name is brunchfox in case you want to stalk me.
charlotta, Apr 4, 2008 @ 18:15

[quote]

SXSW Interactive had more attendees than ever before. A lot more. But here's the confusing part: the people attending are the same people who create and evangelize the tools that make attending totally unnecessary. I started my keynote by asking if anyone was live-blogging. Hands shot up across the room. Someone yelled "Twitter!" The whole thing was recorded on video and audio. So... if nobody needed to be there, why were they[/quote]



Well yeah. But aren't they the lamest arguments ever?



1. If I understand correctly, we have had the technology to mitigate presence-in-the-room for, like, a hundred billion decades. In the form of television. This attempted smackdown of bloggers doesn't look good for a keynote speaker. How can he really justify his own presence in front of the audience? Or was it the flights/expenses/posh hotels?



2. What's the point in blogging it? It's that the person can put out a unique point-of-view. Otherwise we'd have to rely on journalists. How can anyone report anything if they are not there?





[quote]

oh why, oh why, is it a substitute ? (for ?) when our zimmerframes arrive (to help us walk) - will all human contact be virtual ???[/quote]



Isn't this one of the areas in which the internet has had a lot of potential but hasn't really delivered. I know there *are* a lot of success stories but not as many as there really should be. The internet should be a really useful tool for old/incapable/housebound/whatever people. Sure it is in some cases but not as I understand things, as much as it should/could be. OK, not for all communication but for some of it. And shopping. And media.



It's more a tool for the lazy.



hayes, Apr 4, 2008 @ 19:42

ISA / Hayes

Whichever way you look at it, it's (the Internet and modern tech) a blessing or an evil.  Of course our lives will be "enriched" but as Isa says, at what cost to humankind.  I'm 46, it's different for my generation versus "youngsters" - I'm very much into traditional values, good manners, respect, and being social / sociable.  I've been in the US for many years, and having been back in Europe for 2 months, I realise just how much I miss the friendly "bonjour" from total strangers, the sitting at cafes, the 3 or 4 hour meals of wonderful food.  Sure, you go to NYC (or most big cities) or California and it's good - but the day to life of "normal America" just isn't the same as Europe.  My point?  The electronic age is taking us all the same way - we're going to lose who we are.  As an example: everybody has iPods plugged in rather than engaging in conversation on a bus or a train ... I love music - but at what cost?

Twitter, I concede, Hayes, has it's uses - but limited in my world.

SC
saxonchap, Apr 5, 2008 @ 13:46

Hey, Saxonchap and Isa413, do you not think you’re being slightly too pessimistic about the future of human communication now?

Direct, real life interaction does not necessarily have to be more valuable than internet communication just because you can see the person you speak to. Ask anyone who’s grown up in a small town/village with a high level of social control and narrow-mindedness…

For a lot of people the web has offered a sense of freedom through the possibility of meeting like minded others.



And as for Saxonchap’s comment about ipods: have you already forgotten about the days of the walk-man? Exactly how is a bus full of people with mp3-players different from a bus full of people with walk-mans (walk-men?)? And why is listening to music a threat to human communication?

Also, I don’t know about other places, but at least in the country where I grew up, people have always done their utmost to try and avoid human interaction on public transport.



Sure, I think that it’s a good thing not to accept everything that comes to you unconditionally, so in a way I can understand your doubt. Just be careful not to let fear of the technological progress rule your life…..;)



charlotta, Apr 7, 2008 @ 23:37

Hi Isa,

Thanks for your reply, apology accepted.

Like you I spent a big part of my childhood running around in the forest, building huts and playing; I also ate biscuits, crisps, chocolate and ice creams (but unfortunately didn’t not get fat); I had real people friends and lived in a real house; I didn’t have Nintendo etc, we only had 2 TV- channels (this was Sweden in the late 70s, early 80s for you), no mobile phones, no bike helmets or any of the other.



Still, people didn’t talk to each other on the bus.



I know that they do in Kenya, but that appears to me as a question of cultural differences between an African and a North European country more than anything. I don’t see how or why, if the Kenyans had daily internet access, they would decide to go all Scandinavian and stop talking to each other on the bus.

And do you really think the Kenyans will stop smiling because they have electricity (“they don’t even have electricity. What will happen when or If they do ??? – they will change just as we have”)?



People in the south have always been more touchy-feely (what some people call ‘warm’) and more explicitly vocal than people in the north. BUT why does that necessarily have to be better than to be calm and more reserved? Does it make you a better and more caring person? The fact that you talk to random people in the street doesn’t necessarily have to mean that you care about them...



Anyway, my point is, that socialising is something so deeply rooted in human nature that the internet can never replace it. Instead, it works as a tool for us to broaden our social networks. Just look at Glocals for example. Glocals isn’t a substitute for direct interaction; it is (ideally) a tool to help you make new friends. If it weren’t for the internet, my stay here in Geneva would be depressing to say the least. Everyone I know here I have met through the internet.



But sure, I see your point about how modern life is different from how it used to be, things have changed, in a lot of ways to the worse. I don’t think it’s all black and white though – everything wasn’t hunky-dory 30 years ago either. And I’m not sure lack of technology really makes us happier individuals.

Though I share your opinion about how kids should go outside and play or do something creative or read a book instead of getting fat in front of their x-boxes or dvd-players-showing-badly-animated-cartoons-with-annoying-sound-effects, and I find it frightening that modern technology has made us used to a lifestyle which is way too comfortable, and which has lead to rapid climate change.



There are lots of negative outcomes in the technological development, but that doesn’t mean that ALL kind of technological progress is by definition bad...

charlotta, Apr 10, 2008 @ 00:16

Hi Isa,

By 'eck chuck, I remember them days (same era!) - salt and vinegar crisps too, please.....Especially the parents not knowing where we were....

....anyway, your note reminded me of an ex-colleague of mine who came up with "Ten Industrial 'diseases' as a result of technology". My favourite was so-called "shrinking tongue", caused by the fact that nobody talks to anyone anymore. Having said that, skype has become my techo-saviour, it's fantastic and free to other skypers, the world over, as you probably know.

James
Randonneur, Apr 10, 2008 @ 00:43

I perfectly understand that you won't come to like microbogs, but you seem to have the wrong picture of what they are.



Gaming forums and txtspk have messed up the written language more than microblogging ever will. if ur rly angry ab0u+ teh langwidg b31ng fck3d up 1 sugg. u strt thr. Twitter is just another site that mixes the concepts of blogging and networking. Because it's possible to reply instantly, without a browser, it's a DIFFERENT and NEW way of interacting. Micro-blogging is quite unique in that way. Of course, if your text needs more than 140 characters, it belongs on your blog, in IM, in an email, not on twitter. It's not a replacement for anything but a new angle.



I can totally imagine people staying home specifically to write their full blogs or post on forums. But honestly I can *not* imagine someone staying home to write on twitter. *



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Why don't people talk to each other on the bus any more? Isn't it just too easy to blame it on technology? To say people don't communicate in real life because they communicate online instead? Seems like an oversimplification that is, well, for want of a better word, wrong. It's not about the isolation that comes from headphones, surely. Maybe for a tiny fraction but I think as a generalisation it's way off.



But it is quite curious. I don't talk to people on the bus. Well, I would ask someone which stop for somewhere, or does this bus go to somewhere else? But I wouldn't ask them what sort of music they liked, how they broke their arm, how their kids were doing at school, or if they were free on Friday night. I mean, I wouldn't mind if someone asked me those things but I would never initiate it myself. Why is that? Analogously, I would actively look for 2 adjacent free seats before sitting right next to someone. Of course sitting next to somebody doesn't bother me in the slightest but that's the way it is. Now I think about it, I think it's just a matter of being over-polite or over-considerate: I would assume that the person I would sit next to wouldn't want this big messy freakazoid to go and sit there.



So what is the appropriate way to behave? If there are 2 people on the bus and the other spaces are free, you don't go and sit right beside one of them. That's just not the way we do things. I mean, it would actually be embarrassing. Is it meaningful to ask why people want this space; their own personal sphere into which nobody should intrude? Maybe more than they did back in the '50s, durin' the war, or when I were a lad?



Surely it's infinitely more complex than just saying it technology.



OK, here goes. There are any number of treatises on this. There are probably books. It's struggle, innit. It's hardship. Class issues. Closing the industries. War. Mass unemployment. Minimum wage no overtime. Tax on cigarettes. The bloody government being on the take. I mean that's what breeds community. That's what actually makes people talk to each other. Common suppression. ** At least in part.



Unfortunately there is no war any more. And there have been some major socio-economic shifts in Europe in the last 2 decades. Countries are *transformed*. And consequently our survival skills have morphed; life is now one big competition. The most important thing to do in life is to get through a day without embarrassing yourself. So you don't stay awake all night worrying about it and then look below par the next day. The next most important thing to do is to earn more than anyone else around. Or at least have a job title with the word 'Senior' before the more descriptive bit. If you let some get to close you don't know what's going to happen. They could blow up the whole bus -- they are probably carrying a bomb just in case someone shuns them. They probably know where your children go to school as well. They could sneeze on you and give you HIV or gay. Worse still they could ask you if you could spare a few centimes and you'd feel ashamed saying you forgot your wallet and have to walk away really gently so they couldn't hear the change clanging in your pocket. You could pretend it was your keys, I guess. No. Without real issues, trivialities become real. Salaries, details of the pension scheme, having a nice apartment in zone 1, not zone 2. With evening sun. Which tennis racket you have. Big Brother. Media sensationalism. Yeah, trivialities. This is where technology and Isa's list comes in.



I'd be inclined to agree somewhat with you, Isa, in that there is a relevance in your list of superfluous items. But the way I see it this isn't the cause of why people don't talk to each other on the bus. It's another symptom.



I like it now. Now's fine by me. kthnksbai.
hayes, Apr 10, 2008 @ 20:05

In all the excitement i forgot to fix my footnotes:



* really this is null since you can tweet by SMS but that's NOT THE POINT

** Let's not make it a class discussion. We can do that in another thread if you want. Preferably next week.



Randonneur: I'm going to have to read all your posts in a Wakefield accent from now on.

hayes, Apr 10, 2008 @ 20:11

Isa: It sounds like you've got the perfect genes for this country (country of chocolate and cheese)! :)



Yes, let's agree to disagree. Like I said earlier, Twitter isn't for everyone. People like different things, that's just the way it is.

It wasn't my intention to try and force you to like it though.... The reason why I wrote my posting was because I reacted against the pessimistic predictions about the future of communication between people in your and Saxonchap's posts (especially Saxonchap's last post). I was just trying to point out that internet communication (in the form of blogs, microblogs, forums, facebook, myspace etc) doesn't necessarily have to replace face to face communication, but can actually make us into more sociable individuals (of course there will always be the odd person who never leaves the room and uses the internet to escape the real world, but those people are exceptions).



Anyway, enjoy your chocolate! I intend to keep on enjoying my Twittering!;)





charlotta, Apr 10, 2008 @ 20:31

[quote]

Oh Hayes - I want to be your mummy ! pls may I adopt you ???[/quote]



I'm really really grumpy. And short-tempered. I listen to loud music. I swear a lot. I'm scruffy. I behave like someone half my age. I drink like I've just discovered it and I come home very late sometimes. I honestly wouldn't advise it.



[quote]

P.S. I think this topic has reached its sell by date[/quote]



PWNED!1!!11! Er, I mean, what? I just gave it a whole fresh new angle! Products are good weeks, months, even years after their sell-by-date. I mean look at spices. You can use paprika like five probably ten years after it's gone out of date.



I'm going home now to work on my knitting. Maybe I should start a thread about knitting.
hayes, Apr 10, 2008 @ 20:37

[quote]

(in the form of blogs, microblogs, forums, facebook, myspace etc) [/quote]



Apart from MySpace. MySpace if crap. Really really bad.
hayes, Apr 10, 2008 @ 20:42

Ah! I suddenly realise now why so many people in Geneva smoke marijuana... naturally they must all be recovering chocoholics!
charlotta, Apr 10, 2008 @ 21:03

[quote]

Forgot to mention I was born well after WW2! the sixties darling

[/quote]



Sure. You don't need to mention it. It's in your profile. Isn't modern technology marvelous? I can, as the saying goes, do the math(s). When I said 'durin' the war', I think I was adopting uncle Albert from Only Fools and Horses. The 'when I were a lad' I was doing anyone from the north over the age of 50. I dunno. Last of the Summer Wine characters or someone. Anyone. I wasn't implying you were 70+.





[quote]

Make love – not War. Flower Power !

[/quote]



Oh you're really showing your age there. Nowadays it more like this:





hayes, Apr 10, 2008 @ 23:17

Tempora mutantur, et nos mutamur in illis -- or maybe we don't.
hayes, Apr 10, 2008 @ 23:18

Hi guys and gals

Twitter is HUGE, and it comes up alot in the tech blogs all over the world.

Just saw the below on TechCrunch and though I'd share.

Have a great weekend

O 

SiteAdmin Oded, Apr 10, 2008 @ 23:43

Close Hayes, close, but gimme the post code like lad, an' I be really impressed! :hehe:
Randonneur, Apr 10, 2008 @ 23:57

By the way Hayes, "chuck" is Mancunian, in one of those politically tumultuous events that you mentioned elsewhere, there was a war on between the white and red roses, and we still love to have contentions, over a pint usually!

Just to confuse you, I am not Mancunian either!
Randonneur, Apr 11, 2008 @ 00:03

OK, in order:



Oded: I like that cartoon strip. It looks kind of like a throwaway cartoon but it's much much better. It quite nicely illustrates how competitive blogging has become. It's all went wrong in 2006 when EVERYBODY became a blogger and consequently nobody read anybody's work any more. So to be read you had to be quick and monitor news really quickly. If you follow items on digg.com you'll see just how amazingly quickly information flies around the blogosphere. To the extent where the highest impact blogs have to be very short in order to be fast.



Randonneur: Heh sorry, I was confusing 'chuck' with 'me duck'. Easy mistake to make. I don't know what it was really, but I think your photograph reminds me of someone I used to know in Leeds. Or some half relation from Wakey. That's why I picked Wakefield, I guess. Looking at your photo again now, something is saying Middlesborough -- I have no idea why.



Also: whenever I see your name I can't help reading it as Roadrunner. I guess that's also due to the photograph. And maybe the marathon thread.



Isa413: The point in tempora mutantur, et nos mutamur in illis was the 2nd bit. After the comma. The bit that says: and we change with them. Times change and we change with them. See?



Sticks and stones &c ? It wasn't designed to hurt you. Why would I want to do that? You're the one that's been going on about your age and implying a generation gap. An age gap that really is sub-generation. I suppose it was a wrapper, just a lead-in to post a picture of a T-shirt. The expression 'Make love not war' must anyway be older than you.



You say black I say white ? I'm not really sure what you mean. This discussion has at least been reasonably well grounded. Certainly I have not been disagreeing* with you for the sake of it. Just because I think there are points to be made. Are there any real examples of retorts that don't have motives?



* Of course, naturally I'm disagreeing with you here. I just don't think you really got what I meant. Or rather, you thought I meant things that I didn't.
hayes, Apr 11, 2008 @ 11:21

Enter Stage Left: White knight in shining armour ....

Tempora mutantur Indeed, but don't they always?  Personally I like the literal "Mutant" part of the phrase.... trouble is it reminds me of turtles for some reason ... :)

Seriously now - you guys are GREAT!  I love the way "bus" has morphed into "electronic bus" .. because everyone is talking, sometimes about the original subject, sometimes not  -yet all views are valid and provoke thought at least in myself.  Except ... "bus" was virtual bus ... but I also find as I get older that I'm more willing to talk, to be spontaneous, to make that first move which is awfully non-British - although would admit to sitting on the empty seats first ..... for me that kind of time is often a time for reflection, for planning, more so than not wanting to talk.  I love to sit and watch the world go by, regardless of the speed at which it does.

But Hayes as a son ?  Hayes - sorry - that's a scary thought, right up there with "love thy neighbour" :w00t:

Exit Stage Right:

 
saxonchap, Apr 11, 2008 @ 12:03

drool ...  and I thought it was I writing the book ... sod that - can we go now? 

Three thoughts: what a waste of Godiva... isn't chemical castration the same as a slow painful death? ... and Isa, your carriage awaits, my fair lady.
saxonchap, Apr 11, 2008 @ 12:10

Speaking of where we want to be, I find today that I have only 2 weeks left here in Geneva ... sob :crying:
saxonchap, Apr 11, 2008 @ 12:12

If you're doing that, can you take out the piece about the snakes ...  they scare the crap out of me (because I'm ignorant about which ones are poisonous and because I've trodden on some whilst hiking in Texas that apparrently were!).  Yeah yeah, so much for shining knight .. why do you think we have armour?!

Interesting twist of context, faux pas even, if you take the actual meaning of "anon" ...

Not missing, just crazy schedules for IT projects as we get ready to go live...

And - for whomever said this (Isa, I think it was thee) - yes, language and the writing / usage of same is adorable
saxonchap, Apr 11, 2008 @ 12:59

Hayes,

No sweat man! Actually I have moved around all over the place (think my dad was on the run...?), so any accent norf of Nottingham will pass. But put you out of your misery...it's York (the original York, not NY) I claim to come from. A fantastic city, even smaller than Geneve. But don't worry, I am not one of those Yorkshire Nationalista!

So, where do you hail from? Hayes, Middlesex?

PS. I like the road-runner bit!
Randonneur, Apr 11, 2008 @ 13:52

Perhaps you could have a tobacco-chewing cobra instead - as a reason for spitting cobra ( assuming we don't mind running a'foul of the politically correct party )?  Baccy-chewing cobra at the base of Kilimanjaro, with straw hat and shades .... in low voice "the man for whom you search, he went that way... but beware the poisonous sap of the shooting star fruit .. it will be your end"

And, áíùíõìßá is a word, really ?  Wow - that explains where the bulk of my spam comes from then... but I think I referred to the second bullet - "soon".
saxonchap, Apr 11, 2008 @ 13:53

Roadrunner .... hi-speed cable internet provider in the US (Time Warner) - good speeds, generally reliable but a bit of a rip off on price ... I love York ... although confess to not visiting for many, many years.  York and Lincoln and Edinburgh ... have the same romantic connotations of decent GB cities in my random brain.
saxonchap, Apr 11, 2008 @ 13:57