That is the disgusting part here.....if they wanted to bail out anyone...it should have been the homeowners..in the lower income brackets...(annual income under 75k)...they should have been told their home debts were being wiped..and they now owned their homes debt free.



Such a move would have led to massive consumer confidence ....indeed they should have let all these banks fail.



It's all quite disgusting here what Paulson and his buddies are attempting to pull off...I would not be surprised though if this will have a very long tail to it...and still bite them in the end. I don't see how 700 billion dollars of a depreciating U.S. currency is going to do much.....



Hopefully this ushers in massive socialism into the U.S.....proudly and so identified as such.



Cheers...R



Copperred, Sep 29, 2008 @ 17:53

what most likely will happen is this is only the tip of the iceberg. i wouldn't be surprised if there is more to come.....and also, this could be politically motivated to make the republicans and the GW bush team look good. but.......they are the one's who got the usa into this siuation in the first place......let's hope the voters see that in november.
epicure, Sep 29, 2008 @ 19:17

This says it all ...

Translator, Sep 30, 2008 @ 01:53

The idea that every bank will fail is from far reality...this is not 1929.



It is great to see the House has REJECTED this plan......in fact for all intents and purposes...the plan is dead....as it should be....



U see...the people of the midwest..are already in a depression since..hmm...1985....



They could give a RATS ass about New England bankers...or the rest of the world for that matter...nor shoudl they....the farmer in France gives little concern for the farmer in Ohio.



THis will open up a ton of opportunity for small and medium size businesses that are much mroe nimble and certianly better managed.



China and India remain the best broad places to invest....followed by Europe imo...as for the U.S. ...there are massive opportunities there in the coming years...but its a very long term investment....certainly the U.S. is not going to vanish.



Hopefully the rejection is somewhat final....as in the long run....its the best thing for the dollar...and to pick up cheap assets.



Ok...enjoy!

Copperred, Sep 30, 2008 @ 10:00

I'd like someone to ask the polititians, bankers and investment companies a question: Where did all the profits from this mess go? Thats what should be forfieted to the bailout. But it won't be. Corporations are too much in control of the governments of the world. A bailout package will go through because it will be a disaster if it doesn't. But if we don't see some regulation come out of it, I think there should be another "American Revolution".
Maplady, Sep 30, 2008 @ 14:54

the good news is, that recently, the last 8 years, the USA can't seem to do anything right. they would have a hard time finding their way out of a paper bag. so.....they sure as hell won't handle this "bailout" with any less ineptitude than the last 8 years. they better keep the 700 billion for something better.....hey i know!!! put it in the bank :w00t:
epicure, Sep 30, 2008 @ 15:02

yes...and the effect it had....ZERO....markets heading down.....unless your a direct beneficiary of the bailout..it will matter ZIPPO to your long term interests.
Copperred, Oct 4, 2008 @ 03:42

[quote]Thank youAmericans!



Now we all have to pay for yourbrainless credit adiction.



as if your warmongering, resourceglutony and greenhouse emissionwasn't contribution enough to the rest of world...[/quote]

Please don't blame we the people for this mess, we the people were against it 85 to 1, and let congress know, they had the nerve to tell us we are ignorant and don't understand.



The DOW will soon be hitting 6000 and lower due to their actions who is the stupid one now? Yes the govt as many of us have known all along.

Paulson is padding his buddies pockets with taxpayer funds(inflated newly pressed bills no less), while we all suffer.

McCain and Obama are both directly tied to this mess and it is only going to get worse.
StephenSQL, Oct 10, 2008 @ 09:01

I think that's pretty uninformed when you consider that the US has been the driving force of the world economy for the last 70 years. Probably whatever job you're doing in geneva wouldn't exist if it wasn't at least indirectly for the US economy (including Wall Street).

Sorry but I just have a radar for unthinking anti-Americanism as it's just so easy to refute.
Spikey, Oct 10, 2008 @ 13:24

Why is the salary that a Chinese company decides to pay its worker the fault of the US? Actually if the Indian farmer and Chinese factory worker's sons have better lives than their fathers then it will be global economic growth that is mostly to thank for that. Make no mistake about it.

US led global economy=Strong European GDP=Higher European tax revenues=more money for physics :)
Spikey, Oct 10, 2008 @ 14:39

[quote]EVERYONE DO NOT FORGET: Arecessionis a contraction phase of the business cycle - this is indeed sad times for many many people but it is NOT helped by the panic many express.







Further -..... http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-10/03/content_10143343.htm



The proposed 700-billion-dollarbailout of the U.S. financial system would give a boost to Hollywood with tax breaks for shooting in the nation, it was reported on Thursday.



The bill making its way through Congress would provide tax breaks worth more than 470 million dollars over the next decade for movie and TV producers that shoot in the U.S., according to the Los Angeles Times.[/quote]



The $850 BILLION bailout already passed last week, signed into law mere moments after. Market has been in freefall since that moment.
StephenSQL, Oct 11, 2008 @ 02:13

[quote]EVERYONE DO NOT FORGET: Arecessionis a contraction phase of the business cycle - this is indeed sad times for many many people but it is NOT helped by the panic many express.







Further -..... http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-10/03/content_10143343.htm



The proposed 700-billion-dollarbailout of the U.S. financial system would give a boost to Hollywood with tax breaks for shooting in the nation, it was reported on Thursday.



The bill making its way through Congress would provide tax breaks worth more than 470 million dollars over the next decade for movie and TV producers that shoot in the U.S., according to the Los Angeles Times.[/quote]



The banks don't need a name, and the markets haven't lost as much as they could due to some manipulations by the federal reserve and govt, it would have otherwise been a cliff dive. Needless to say the Working Group on Financial Markets has been bust this last week.



Losing over 25% in a week is a pretty steep drop, but it would have been worse.
StephenSQL, Oct 11, 2008 @ 02:33

[quote]The last post says "The banks don't need a name" - Are you serious?



And then goes on to say "...the markets haven't lost as much as they could due to some manipulations by the federal reserve and govt, it would have otherwise been a cliff dive. Needless to say the Working Group on Financial Markets has been bust this last week."





????? ! Is all I can answer at this late hour. Off this post. Good night sweet, poor, beautiful world.

[/quote]



Corrupt banks need to die, they are causing problems for the entire world. Their corruption doesn't end with them. You will feel it in europe as well, this bailout is rewarding their bad choices in loans and securities.



The government playing with the markets will slow the fall but will slow the recovery profoundly as well, instead of a plunge and natural recovery we will continue the corruption for decades and another failure will happen again within my lifetime and it will not even be manageable. This IS a business cycle and it needs to run its course not be manipulated.
StephenSQL, Oct 11, 2008 @ 02:51

These bailout-packages, and the guarantees European governments give for people's savings - they're all a big scam IMO.

In the end, everything is paid by the taxpayer.

Governments don't have any money at all - they don't have savings-accounts like ordinary citizens. Instead, when they need more money, they raise taxes.



The only message this bailout sends to banks, insurances and other financial instituation is: "If you ever create a financial mess, make sure it's so large that it has macroeconomic effects and the taxpayer has to bail you out"

Too bad that I, too, am living in a country whose banks are much larger than the country they are operating in - UBS or CS going down would really bring .ch back to 19th century levels I'm afraid.
rainer_d, Oct 12, 2008 @ 04:50

maybe it's finally time to look for jobs in the alternative energy field and start building your own bio gardens. more and more people are putting up their own wind turbines and solar panels for their own homes, and if you can cull your own bio food, voila, you can be self sufficient for the most part.   when there's a will, there's a way. 
YouMeCo, Oct 12, 2008 @ 16:11

The following clip, called "The Job", was created by Screaming Frog Productions. Written & Directed by Jonathan Browning. The Job has played at over 100 international film festivals and has been honored with 27 awards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XGJq8wrw5I
YouMeCo, Oct 12, 2008 @ 17:17

[quote]



We will all be affected. Very badly. And in ways that go well beyond finances.Irreparable damage to our future, all courtesy of the Great Nation OfTHE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.



[/quote]





The US, like most other countries, has to import most of the fuel it burns.

Whatever happens, I don't think the dollar will come out stronger out of this.

Oil-producing countries will probably increase the price of oil, simply because the dollar is worth less.

There are people claiming that the oil-producing countries wanted to change to Euro-pricing of oil since long, but US bullied them out of it (as a result of a change to Euro for oil-pricing, a huge amount of dollars, currently on hold by various countries' central banks would flood the market, further crushing the dollar...)



I'd say: enjoy the party while it lasts....









rainer_d, Oct 12, 2008 @ 17:33

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfascZSTU4o&feature=related



This has been a long time coming.
StephenSQL, Oct 12, 2008 @ 18:58

when you point your finger at someone else, 3 fingers are pointing back at you.
epicure, Oct 12, 2008 @ 20:22

The amount of energy that the average citizen needs per day far exceeds what we would be able to generate via renewable energy-sources.

See this remark in the German wikipedia:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erneuerbare_Energie#Schweiz



2004: 16.5% = impressive - but (BUT!) a lot of power generated in Switzerland is from so called "pump storage hydro power plants", where water is pumped into a storage lake at night, with cheap (non-renewable) energy....



Face it: a self-sufficient lifestyle would be very frugal at best - ignoring for a second that we would not be able to feed large parts of the world-population. This would affect all parts of the world.

Can you imagine using only 5 or 10% of the energy you use today?

That includes all the energy that is used-up while you do your job (computers, datacenter - CERN!)



This is all off-topic, but I sometimes feel like raining into the parade of those who think we've just got to put solar-cells and wind-generators on our roofs. You could hardly operate your light-bulbs and a small radio from the energy provided by those, much less all the other stuff (fridge, heating, hot water, computer, ps3, plasma, stereo, wifi-router, phone, microware, stove, blender, electric kettle etc.pp.).







rainer_d, Oct 12, 2008 @ 21:51

[quote]I never gave Hugo Chavez much credit, but in face of the rude awakening the US has brought upon the world...well...Chavez certainly scored a few points, even if his country will not be immune to this disaster.



My point is that the US economic model is wrong, yes it drove the world economy for decades, but took a wrong turn around8 years ago, with the creation of virtual wealth.



Yes, virtual: Americans are not rich...they never were, it was all funded by the rest of the world, in the form of a massive deficit, 1billion a day...[/quote]



I don't know if that is the case. Venezuela has oil and oil is always a commodity.



It is true that George Bush and his administration and US corporations have screwed the rest of the world but he has also screwed Americans. More than half of whom voted against him 8 years ago and 4 years ago. Also it is not just American consumers who bought into the consumerist ideology. I see lots of consumerism in Europe as well.



But essentially I think you miss the fact that it is GREED that has brought the world economy down. The greed of Multi-national corporations and wealthy companies and people that have done it. Yes, lots of Americans bought houses when they couldn't afford them but they didn't steal the money. A bank gave it to them and the bank got paid for it in interest. And now, when the family can't pay, the bank gets the property back in foreclosure. And because of the bailout, those people and every taxpayer, even the ones that aren't consumer driven and mortgage owning, will pay the price.



The problem I have with your comments is that you lump all Americans in one boat without regard to personal differences. I wouldn't presume to lump all Canadians into one ideology or stereotype. I would think that at least living in this international community would have shown you that there are good and bad in every society and you can't paint every one from one country, or even one community, with the same brush.

(Wow, I think I just used more platitudes in this reply than I normally use in a month :). )

Anyway I don't mean to attack you, but I feel that your comments do not really invite discussion but make people defensive.

Maplady, Oct 13, 2008 @ 22:38

Not ALL of the Americans' tax dollars get flushed down the toilet...



This American Life, sponsored by NPR, have made two extremely informative 1-hour shows about the sub-prime mess and the credit crisis. If you're confused about what the hell happened in the first place, why Congress approved a lousy bill that everyone knew was cr*p, and know nothing about finance or economics... I highly recommend you listen to these two shows.



I haven't been able to do links right yet :unsure: so you'll have to copy and paste the addresses in your browser. There's a link to play the episode on each page.



Episode 355 9 May 2008 The Giant Pool of Money

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1242



Episode 365 3 October 2008 Another Frightening Show About the Economy

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1263



They'll make you angry, but at least you'll understand a lot more about what happened.
Mr.Ben, Oct 13, 2008 @ 22:52