Nir and Rasputin,

Thanks for your info! So now it's clear and we all can move on...

Have a great week.

Cheers, SWISS :-)

Try posting it as Tapas and Wine and see if anybody notices.

How about this for a loophole.

It's not like commercial activities are actually banned outright from member activities, is it. I mean, going to the cinema, going to a concert, or even going to dinner are commercial events. I assume that Curry Club or whatever is equally successful as W&T, at least numerically. Just that it's the cinema, the venue, or the restaurant that makes the money, not the person doing the organising. Member activities is full of that. So, it seems like while that capitalist scumbag Rasputin has to post W&T in Events, the other 26,999whatever members of Glocals can post it in MA.

Raspitin: PM me if you want to cut a deal next time, yeah?

@Hayes - Nice to see that going 12 rounds with the Beast from the East didn't slow you down at all.
I guess the left jab right cross strategy worked well  :-)

As you stated - the person making the money (in this case, Rasputin) can't post it as a Member Activity, but if someone else is attending the event and wants to post it as a MA, then technicaly, he/she can do it.

Luckily, as Rasputin explained, his events are getting too full anyways, so I'm sure he would not want anyone to post it as a Member Activity.

@Rasputin - I think you did, and are doing, a great job with the W&T brand, and I wish you alot of success.  

We ask all businesses to post their events as Commercial Events and not Member Activities, and this applies to W&T too.

Thanks

Oded

Oded,

I find your message highly offending (in spite of the sugar coating), as it cleverly does make me look like a capitalist scum (this time without the joke). However, I will not go down low into a discussion about  my events, not my style.

As I said, I will not do (and do not need) any W&T event posting in Glocals, but of course if others do, it's completely their choice.

@Rasputin

No offense was meant, and after re-reading my post, I seriously can't see why you find it offensive.

Nonetheless, you say you are offended, so I sincerely applogize.

Oded

Just some neutral thoughts on this topic: I am thinking out loud here and have no axe to grind, so those of you with specific positions, please don't take offence.

I remember the early days of W&T,. just like  many of the Glocals member activities, in that it was a low key occasion. I cannot believe that Rasputin ever set out to do this with some long term commercial plan in view. The fact that it grew was down to the fact that the formula worked. It's fun, and you get to go to an good evening out and feel able to mix and talk and enjoy yourself. W&T takes place in busy Geneva bars on popular nights, and especially knowing the attitude of Swiss bar owners I cannot believe they were ever likely to pay up large to someone just to have people in their bar,which they would probably have  had anyway( I think this topic has been discussed on Forums here by people who organise Glocal events which are published as Member Activities) Now maybe as it grew Rasputin found he was putting in more time and effort.  What's that worth? If he happened to cut a deal with any bar  then good luck to him, although I would stress that I have no idea if he did and I think it's clear on here that that accusation is unfounded and also I believe morally unfair. I organised some ski trips through Glocals. I was going anyway, but felt it would be good to share the day with other people. Being good minded and polite people, I received contributions for my petrol and lunch, so when I arrived home, I found, although I had less money in my pocket than when I left, I still had more money than if I had gone on my own. Now is that commercial?

I think just because an activity has become large and successful, it does not mean it is commercial, and unless the site admins have clear and obvious evidence that the activity is being run purely as a commercial and profit driven enterprise, then they have no moral right to move it's posting to another area.( Do you guys have this evidence?)

On the flip side, justifying your activity by free entry to a bar(is there a bar in the world that would survive without free entry?)  and alleging cheaper drinks, when I know that those bars have served me the same drinks at the same price on other occasions, does nothing to strengthen your arguement.....

i don't know much about organising events in a bar or restaurant, but i suppose that when u make it in a bar and u tell the bar manager that u expect to get 200 or more guests that buy more than 1 drink a night i'm sure they are happy to make the event private.

so when a wine and tapas evening is organised and u are expected to pay an entrance fee to the bar you wonder were all that money is going to.

say the entrance price cost an average of 20 CHF per person times 200 (guests) is 4000 CHF.

Where does that money go??

to The bar manager or to the event organiser??

@DavidP - it's obvious to me too that all this money goes somewhere, and its likely its the organiser. For me, there is nothing wrong with the W&T man making money. What is wrong is that they refuse to just say it. 

@Reka - a shot costs to the venu 0.5 frances or less. hardly fair to assume an entrance fee of 10-20 is to cover that cost. 

internations are open about being a business, and that's OK. it would sit well if W&T did the same and avoided all speculations.

Guys, this discussion is getting too long. Although glad to see so many people care so much about W&T events, I obviously don't enjoy some of you placing unfounded and unfair accusations. So here are my answers:

@DavidP: Obviously you don't know anything about organizing events in a bar. I suggest you try it yourself, go to any bar and ask the owner to reserve it for you on a weekend, only just because you promise him you will bring a lot of people. Also ask him to make special discounts, hire extra staff for that night and offer some free shots to everybody. Share with us your experience then... It's easy to write in front of your PC, I just invite you to give it a try yourself.

@pink_bunny: I wonder why you attack W&T and keep quiet about glocals / sindy parties? If 200 people in a W&T party bother you so much, 3000 people attend an average Sindy party, and they all pay 20/25CHF. Isn't that a better occasion to spend your energy and time on? Just calculate how much it would be in just a single night, or ask DavidP to do the calculation, he seems good at it. But overall, seriously, I suggest you don't do both, and just attend what you like and don't attend what you don't like. Don't be the bored guy behind a PC, throwing mud at everybody. Go out and do stuff yourself.

To all other readers: I'm sorry if I come across a bit pissed off. Most of you who know me and W&T parties already make the right judgment. It is just very disturbing for an organizer to see these kinds of attacks after so much time and effort spent into improving everybody's lives. I have witnessed many great things within 2+ years organizing W&T events, people making great friendships/friend groups, falling in love, learning to ski/dance/photography, and most importantly creating a community from scratch. I am proud of everything I did. But after all this effort, these kinds of comments from a few bored people just take your energy down, and give a wrong impression about the whole thing to everybody else, the silent majority. So I have to let it out. Thanks for your understanding:)

@brucelawson: Overall, thanks for trying to be neutral. I agree with you, I sometimes miss the old W&T's with much less people, it was much more personal and everybody knew each other. But then again, without a bigger base, I would have never been able to organize the ski trips, the training courses, and the big theme parties... Unfortunately you never have it all. Also about your comment on reduced prices, it's reduced price vs the price list at the bar. Now if the bar owner decides to do the same price another time, I cannot control that. But in case you see any event where I say reduced price and it's the same as the list, let me know, I will surely handle it directly with the owner and most probably never organize anything there again.

I joined glocals 2 or 3 months ago and when I heard about event organisers I thought that was a good way to make money...I wish I knew my way around this country I would certainly tap into this great market constituting of mainly "expats". Glocals too must be making some money out of this, but my question is WHY NOT? and WHATS THE FUSS ABOUT?? Sorry those are 2 questions!!

I believe glocals and event organisers (I thought they were in it together until I came across this thread) invest a lot of time, energy, money and other resources to make Geneva the place it is for "expats"... And for that they actually should be proud to run 'flourishing ventures'. Just take a look at some of the RISK it takes to organise an event (see Rasputins reply to David P). Profits come from Risk...thats business!!

So lets all relax and enjoy the ride, Glocals, W&T or Facebook take your pick or just have everything! And what was your question again SWISS??

@ rasputin --- I am surprised you feel "attacked" when all I ask is that you're transparent with your supporters on if you make money or not from these events. Despite your long reply you still don't give a clear answer. and your main argument is a weak "hey, others make more money, so leave me alone' 

I have no problem with you or anyone else making money. i am bothered when its masked behind long 'i am doing this all for you' replies. you would benefit, now that the topic is out here, from just giving a clear yes or no answer. and there is nothing wrong with making money 

@ bwessala --- yay to your point. mine is about telling the truth in a clear way, not about being a non-profit. 

"pink bunny", the answer is simple, it's none of your business. Nobody has to answer anything to you. And surely you are not my supporter. Hope this is clear.

Overall, find better things to spend your time on, and appreciate having all these activities around instead of "bothering yourself".

Sorry I don't mean to be rude, bunny, but you do attack him! and it's becoming really annoying. If you are bored than get some useful hobby.

http://www.winesandtapas.com/Contact.html

I am now confused ...or is it funny

an external website is asking for Glocals name 

@ Rasputin --- you, not me,  brought up the topic on this forum of money and of your events being non commercial. by bringing that up, i assumed you really wanted to discuss that with the forum people and bunnies. 

and now when i simply ask you to clarify your point with a simple yes or no, it becomes 'none of my business'.

so i guess i received my answer. 

my intention here was not to attack you or to discredit you, just to understand your stand. 

'nuff said. 

========

The End

Just a case of customer turned competitor and in my deemed view he, Rasputin (Glocals name), had every right...although its funny they still have on their customer list!!

@Rasputin, you don't owe pink_bunny any answers, in fact u don't owe anybody any answers but you keep answering, which raises more questions...

PS. I signed up on Glocals using my gmail account, if ever I sign up to W&T I will be more than willing to give my Glocals name!!

Folks - this discussion seems to be heading downhill into personal insults.

The original question was why we don't allow W&T events to be posted on our Member Activities board, and I think we answered that question.

@Pink Bunny - I think you made your point.

@Rasputin - I'd appreciate it if you remove the 'glocals name' field from your signup form cause I don't want people thinking that W&T is a glocals activity.

@Everyone else - if you have something to add to this discussion, great.  If you just want to weigh in on who makes how much from what activities/events then this will digress into a finger pointing festival that is not useful for anyone.

Thanks and happy Wednesday

Oded

Gentlemen, Ladies,

That's what I've sent to Rasputin, he asked me to share the opinion with other people on the thread:

"...whatever you do there will always be people to critisize you )) my simple answer is "go and do it better", it shuts up most peolpe ))""

p.s. I was called "stupid" many times when people found out that I don't make money on the stuff I do ))

Extremal!

You are not stupid. You are a Glocaler as it's meant to be!

People like you are the reason to join this network and to remain in here!

The reson for this network is to offer the opportunity to people for meeting and sharing experiences and fun.

I have little against the members who started making a profession out of it.I'm glad they can also organize social opportunities and that they can sell it as a paying service to other people who think their offer is worth the price (that might be the bar owners if that's who pays).

But the original spirit of this network was to offer each others initiatives, friendship and help, not to sell them.

The fact that the founders (of glocals) fund it via some sponsoring and via the entrance fee at the big parties is just good for members who are nto asked to pay a fee (after all there are real costs to keep this up, first of all somebody working practically full time on it).

So I'd say I'm glad if we can still find the Wine and Tapas, but I'm also glad that we have two separate sections (Events / Members' activities) to be able to chose what each of us is more interested in.

Keep up everybody. With the right dose of mutual respect there's plenty of space for everybody!

Interesting comment! I agree aith you so: tapas and wine any time, keep me posted!

Nad

I agree with you mate!

People only see the chf 20 they pay to attend the huge Sindy/Glocals party...but what about the cost behind organizing these huge parties? The venue itself costs a fortune!!!

I know what it is like to organize a huge party, since I do that in Zurich...

And don't forget...there are at least 4 people and Oded working full time to keep this site up and running!

People start complaining they don't like this feature and that...put yourself in the shoes of the guys who run the site and probably that will shut you down!

my 2 cents!

Cheers
Ehsaan

Why is it inappropriate to ask whether a profit is being made?

Ah.. who cares about *why* it's inappropriate, it just is... This thread woud probably be quite interesting for people that study social dynamics of money-related stuff. Everyone is out, yet cagey.

BruceLawson began his post "Just some neutral thoughts on this topic:" and people approved. I will do the same. This is just some neutral thoughts from someone who watches and pays attention. To borrow a phrase from a great, great man, first of all, two things:

1. Justdoit says it's inappropriate to ask whether someone makes money. The don't ask, don't tell policy: that has been a proven a winning strategy almost without fail. I love it.

2. Ehsaan agrees with him (mate!). I guess that means Eshaan thinks it's none of anyone's business whether someone makes money off their events. It's inappropriate to go through the channel of finding out. It follows (with a little creative shuffling) that he also believes that it's inappropriate for Nir to ask Rasputin whether he makes any dosh off his S&M events, or for anyone to ever find out from the Horse's mouth whether Russia's greatest love machine turns a profit. The very fact that Nir "knows" is inappropriate in itself. I look forward to seeing Rasputin's events back in Member Activities.

3. But... that anybody "knows" Rasputin makes money from W&T appears to be based on the words of a few people. Asking a few people here and there. Chinese whispers. A bit of rumour, you might say. A bit of hearsay. A bit of Rasputin makes money from WT&T. Good stuff.

4. But is't business, innit. Y'know. The whole don't ask, don't tell thingy. Rumour, hearsay. Fledgling businesses rely on trust. The one man show is always nice to his clients because he has to be. They have to bring the whole friendship thing into it (mate!). You gotta grow to the point where you can stop being nice. I heard a rumour a while ago that the big glocals guy in Zurich made "substantial" cash from some of the events s/he organised. I don't know who that is or what "substantial" means. I don't even know if it's true since it's just what someone told me, but it's just the same rumour business as Rasputin's thingy. But in this case, since it was Zurich and Glocals wanted to grow there, it was all OK in the boardroom. Again: rumours,,, hearsay. No proof, no evidence. Essentially just what's going on all over this thread.

So with a bit of bodging here and there -- hammering the broken bits of the wheel into place -- that's full circle. Kind of. Almost.