A Facebook page by itself will only be short-lived. It will let us blow off steam but won't change anything. I'd actually take it a step further than that.

Perhaps we could approach an organization like Rezonance (professional networking agency in Geneva) and offer to organize an event to teach customer service to Swiss professionals. In that case I'd definitely be in and I can probably arrange for some pretty good speakers.

i think you should stop generalising and simply "shop with your feet". for example, one internet café does not an entire marketplace make. try coop or migros, the largest supermarkets in switzerland. their customer service is excellent!! almost unbelievable when you see how poorly paid the personnel is. however, it is the system of how service people are paid which is faulty. here,as opposed to the usa for example,  restaurant waitresses and waiters are paid with a salary. in the usa, they are paid from tips! a real motivator to say the least.

imagine if that system were to be used in shops, hotels, garages, etc. the customer would be king ( or queen ). just my 2¢ as a gratuity :-)

Yes....you didn't give the best example.  for reasons which i have yet to comprehend, my local Migros does not accept Visa cards (most bizarre), the restaurant opposite my client (it's largest customer) refuses to have menus in English so is half empty at lunchtime (people did indeed vote with their feet) and let's not even get started on estate agents or notaries...on the other hand, doctors fare pretty well here in the customer service stakes as does the tax office!

Man, nobody is perfect... you need to change the country to start appreciating what you've got here ! ...  or move to life happily ever after in "more advanced Anglo-Saxon" paradise ;-) 

Actually, I agree with Roger (Epicure).....

Sorry, I'll just have to type that again.....

Actually, I agree with Roger (hhmmm, I really do!)

You're  trying to push jelly uphill with a fork.  "Be the change you want to see in the world".  Stop winging and open a decent internet cafe, open a good restaurant, open a new grocery shop that takes credit cards - otherwise vote with your feet.

I love my little cafe in the morning where I get a free croissant with my coffee.  I love the little asian store who got me fresh coriander in on request. I love my bus drivers who wish me a "bonne journee, merci beaucoup, au revoir" at the start of my day.  I love my chinese fondue restaurant who keep bringing fresh prawns even when we're all stuffed. Most of all, I love the SBB ticket collectors who don't treat you like a criminal when you don't have a ticket and seem almost embarassed to have to fine you an extra 10 francs.

I never got any of the above living in London for 20 years, so having to wait another 20 minutes for the bill, whilst basking in pollution-free sunshine down by the lake with the mountains in front of me and friends around me - life could be worse.

HOWEVER!!!  Going to a dentist for a "crown", coming out with an "inlay" with no discussion beforehand, and when I complained, as I handed over 1500 CHF for the pleasure, being told that it wasn't "up to me" as to what goes on with my teeth.....that kinda stung!

We could start a new thread:

"When will the expat Brits stop complaining about Switzerland, whilst pushing up apartment prices with their over-inflated relocation packages and bog off back to the UK"

But its not worth the negative energy.

Chill

Who care about the service just open the shops on Sunday.

Amen to that.

Switzerland does not have a consumer empowerment culture.  This includes healthcare.  The sheep are being shorn left and right.

I've yet to have any battles with Swiss service providers but I'm sure that day is coming.  It'll probably happen when I take my car to a mechanic and end up educating him on how my car works via a translator. 

I agree with Roger (Epicure) and Carolyn.

First of all, I don't consider the service here to be that bad since I also come from a country that pays in salaries rather than tips. And trust me, the service is much worse there.

I think Roger made a good point there about tips being a motivator. Here, instead of giving you fake pleasantries so that they can earn more money off you, the people actually do care about the service itself.

Also, I agree with Carolyn about the people being polite and wishing you a good day. To me, this is true service and friendliness rather than a fake smile motivated by dollar signs in their eyes.

Yes, you meet unpleasant and/or rude people, but you have those everywhere!

Another way to look at it is customer satisfaction is the gap between the service offered and the service expected. The reason why we as foreigners are so unhappy with Swiss service is because we're expecting better. The reason why Swiss people don't complain is because their expectation is much lower. Do you think it's reasonable that a waiter takes a half hour to bring the bill, or that it takes 12 weeks for your new couch to be delivered?  Swiss people do, because it's what they're used to.

I agree that Swiss service isn't necessarily worse than that in other European countries. I never realized how bad the customer service is in my home country, the Netherlands, until I spent a year studying an business course with students from over 40 nationalities. At first I thought they were exagerating about the service being bad, but I gradually started to accept it.

Concerning tipping as a motivator: it's true that in some cultures it leads to great service, but I'm not sure if it would work in all cultures. Some cultures, such as the US, are driven by formal relationships and motivation is extrinsic (i.e. money). In those tipping to improve service works. In other countries though there is a much greater focus on relationships and intrinsic motivation (i.e. selffulfillment, pride). The best example is Japan. Introducing tipping in these societies may not work, and on a larger scale it could undermine their culture. I'm not sure where Europe fits in; you'd probably have to look at individual countries since for example the UK and Greece are simply too different.

I realize I got a bit theoretical, but I thought it was interesting to mention.

I left out a word there: In other countries though there is a much greater focus on informal relationships and intrinsic motivation

I agree with Edward: how we judge the service depends on our own expectation and what we're used to. I personally find the service in CH sucks compared to what I'd expect. Of course there's the occasional great service, but I'm generalising in purpose. 

In part (the small part) it's a question of us consumers not doing enough about it. From the bit I've learned about the local culture, it's more acceptable to roll your eyes up and nod "no" with your head when you run into bad service than to make a fuss about it and to demand better. So we keep rolling our eyes, and the service stays bad.

I don't think you got too theoretical at all.  I thought that was a really interesting post and very helpful ( just thought I would add that - rather than just hitting the "thank poster" button - just in case I had to tip you )

But I agree - it IS all about cultures and the Swiss are a very laid back bunch of people - a bit  "wait until the cows come home" (and we all know how long THAT takes!). 

Do we always have to be a pushy pushy society - lets get it all done as quick as possible -  and get the tips in "real quick"? Is that "service" or is it just about the tips? 

The good outweighs the bad any day of the week (for me!)

And I got my all IKEA furniture delivered the same day with only a 95 franc delivery charge - and delivered to inside my 2nd floor apartment - with no "tip" expected - loved THAT!

Is there a "No thank poster" button?  I would never vote for Sunday opening.  Having seen what its done to the UK/US society - lets keep the shops shut on Sundays (and Mondays  - yeah!) and let it stay a day for family activity, friends activity, hiking, biking and a generally relax and unwind day in this beautiful country!

Do you really NEED to shop on Sundays - are you THAT bored with this beautiful country of ours that 6 out of 7 days shopping isn't enough for you?????

Life - get one

Every time someone brings up the "open the stores on Sunday" someone else says "but don't you have enough days to shop?". Now Carolyn C says it...(-;

Here's my answer:

1) No, I don't. I work during the week, and if I can't make Saturday then I'm in trouble,

2) even if I did, I'd want the freedom to shop when I want and spend time with my family when I want.

3) the fact CH is beautiful has nothing to do with whether shops should be open or not...if CH was less beautiful then you'd be for opening the stores on Sundays?

Nir - you need to spend more time in Lausanne! People here are generally  more laid back and more tolerant of "bad" service.  It's the norm - and we're actually "okay" about it.  Maybe because its a younger, more "local" population, we're a bit more tolerant/laid back about the lack of service than the Geneva bunch, who, being more international, expect more.

Or maybe its just because we have better weather, better views of the lake, better mountains to climb.....

Not too much "eye rolling" going on here in Lausanne or maybe we just have less expectations because we're more laid back down this end of the lake.

I hear you Carolyn.

I don't know tho if accepting bad service is being laid back. I like to think I'm a laid back relaxed (handsome) guy, but that don't mean I accept being treated bad. On 2nd thought, maybe I'm not as relaxed (and handsome) as I like to think...

1) The shops in Nyon (where I work) are open till 7pm, including Migros and Denner.

2) Doing a quick shop after work each day of the week, will give you LOADS of time to spend on the weekend with you family - its all about planning.

3) No - would never be for opening stores on Sundays - in any country.  I'm  agnostic and love the idea of Sundays being "quiet times" and/or "family times" - and/or hiking and biking times, family and friends times and everything that has been "lost" from the usual routine of the western world.

Yes, Switzerland may be "less beautiful" if all the stores were open on a Sunday.... they'd just just shut Monday and Tuesday instead, just for the hell of it!!

wait a second Reka, how did the cats get into this discussion?!? 

 Nir - much as you'd like to - you and Oded don't control ALL the posts! MWAH!!

How did the shops open on Sunday gets into the subject? I thought we were talking about the customer service, which I agree til today. I've been in Geneva since 1996 and received most of the time " take it or leave it" custmoer serivce than " customer is always right". It is not about laid back & relax attitue and we can wait for 20 minutes to get everything including the bill in a restaraunt, but it is everywhere. Sometime I wonder if it has to do with being racist but it is the same with my other friends from other continent of the world. Spoken through my experience, the customer service in shops are slightly better but still not in bars or restaurants. They all seem to me like " i'm doing my job here, so can't bare a smile at you, what's your order?" It is hard for those who just arrived to Switzerland and accept like how Swiss do cuz we weren't expecting such sophisticated country like Switzerland to have customer service like this. Trust me after all these year I"m used to it. So let's hope they do also eventually.

and I frequently work till 8 or 9pm. Those same working days have me working all the way through lunch, so going to the shop then isn't an option either. I envy you with a job that has the luxury of short hours.

Back in Aus, the supermarkets were open 24 hours a day, which was perfect for me when I was working shifts, and perfect for me when I was in a normal job but suffering insomnia, and perfect for me when I wanted to shop NOT surrounded by families with screaming kids doing their weekly shop.

I would SO vote for them closing on a Monday instead of a Sunday... brilliant idea!

thinking about it, there is something almost refreshing about the complete and utter indifference shown by Swiss shop owners and staff.  There is none of the false bonhomie coated desperation of American service, nor the super friendly and sometimes over familiar service you get in Australia.  Most Swiss shops seem to genuinely not give a damn whether you use their business or services this time or in the future.  From the bakery in my lake-side suburb that manages to afford to close completely for the two months of summer to the department stores with their staff who are far too busy chatting to each other to take notice of customers, the lack of caring is at least upfront and honest. 

The plus is, when you find a shop or service or restaurant where they are friendly and helpful, you treasure them all the more.

While we're on the subject, here is a video of our dog chasing my feet.

Priorities. Make it so you can shop, make someone else do it for you.. or.. well, you know..

Ah, now we get to one of my other theories about Swiss service.  There appears to be an assumption that everyone has a wife (and yes the gender specific term is deliberate).  From the laundry room in my old apartment building that was only open between 8.30am to 5pm Monday to Friday, to having "someone" do the daily shop for you, the assumption seems to be built in to the whole psyche of this country. In a country where married women's tax returns must be in their husbands name, should I be surprised?

Oh, and are you offering?  <grin>  Could you pick up a pack of snow peas, 3 carrots, a loaf of bread, two large pork chops, five apples, some oats, brown sugar and butter. Thanks. ;-)

I was not assuming anything. In fact, I was referring - not clearly, I give you that - to shopping services. No doubt you could put up a note in the supermarket and have a student shop for you, provided you dispensed some reasonable cash for the effort. That is, if you must work all the time.

I am unfortunately too tired to express what I really think about customer service in Geneva (not inZurich!).... It might cause more Swiss to vote for the SVP to "stop the immigration" of this unthankful foreigners...

Rena . . . totally incomprehensible . . .  stop clubbing during the week, save that for the weekends !

Work less, party more...

I've noticed this too.  Even the child care facilities have hours which are structured around the assumption that one spouse does not work full time.

I find Geneva's customer service the worst ever by far. Sad to say but I have the impression I am most of the time paying premium honoraries for no more than local mediocrity.

Though compared to Gemany returning things to the shops is easier in Switzerland. Even without the ticket or a long explanation they take goods back or they are less picky in excepting a cancellation.

I had to cancel my hotel room at the IBIS Zurich yesterday only at 22 h. They accepted without a problem.

Rena - who needs a hotel when you can go clubbing all night  :D

Apart from that, one problem in customer service here is that there appears to be no training for these people, who are considered at the bottom of the totum pole, when in fact they are the calling card of any store or business.  Hotels that are part of a chain (ie IBIS) have staff that are trained and they have policies/procedures to deal with any kind of event, like a cancellation.

Dear Mr. tax_exile,

I find it really surprising that you are disappointed that some restaurant in a French speaking country did not agree to translate their menus to your language. Instead of expecting the whole country to learn your language and have everything translated to suit you, how about you get some of the local culture and learn some French?

And what authority do you have to call the Anglo-Saxon countries more advanced than Switzerland?

I agree with Roger and CarolynC, service in Migros and Coop is good despite the low salaries. I perfectly agree with Roger that what might be missing here is some incentive for some service people to do more.

No comment about the 15 spelling mistakes in your post.

ooh, another "learn some French" rant.  So entertaining and different from every other...

"Does customer service exist in Switzerland."   YES,

" in the sense we understand it in the more advanced Anglo Saxon countries" ?

  ADVANCED?? YOU MEAN WHERE RIOTERS BREAK INTO SHOPS, BURN CARS AND STORES?    IN THE UK FOR EXAMPLE

Excellent follow up Roger. Thank you my friend.

I'd vote London for the most advanced city in the world...... well, what is left of it.

On speaking French: if you have a shop or restaurant in Geneva and you don't hire staff that speaks English, or don't have English menus, that's your choice but you're neglecting a large part of your potential customer base.

The thing that annoys me most: that there isn't anyone who speaks English at the police station.

Marc:

If a merchant knows that a large % of his potential clients prefer English, then yes - good client service would be serving his clients in the language they prefer to be served in...

That's the essence of customer service: doing what's best for client, even if it's not the easiest option for the merchant. 

I'm not arguing that every merchant should speak English. But I am arguing that the merchants who do, offer a better option for the english speaking population. 

Does customer service exist in Switzerland? In some rare cases -- yes but not really in Geneva.  Manor and Globus have fairly decent customer service and some other small stores where owners understand the pressure of competition or are non-native Swiss themselves.

I don't believe it is so much a matter of incentives (tips for example) as opposed to lack of proper training and the Swiss slowness in opening their markets to competition. 

Tips are only applicable in restaurants  and cafes.  In Geneva there are so many foreigners and visitors who do not know about the "leave the small change rule" -- that many wait staff actually DO receive tips here regardless of the quality of service.

As for returns -- in my experience many store owners and supervisors routinely lie about what can be returned and what cannot and often force "store credit" on customers. 

Finally riots have nothing to do with this issue EVEN IF ONE SCREAMS ABOUT THEM IN RED!!

Edward you are right. It is definitely an unwise decision to exclude the non-french speaking English community in Geneva..... and it is 10 times worse not to have someone who speaks English at the police station. I perfectly agree.

In a country where women were denied the right to vote up until 1959 (and in some cantons until 1990!), this is called coherence to say the least.  :-/

I'm curious: in your experience which is worse: Swiss or French service?

The shops are open late tonight and the red carpets are out.  Enjoy !

Correction:

Swiss women only got the right to vote on the federal level on February 7th 1971. The Swiss Parliament approved the federal vote for women in 1958 but the two-thirds of the male voters rejected the referendum. 

Appenzel Ausserrhoden was the last canton to allow the vote for women in 1989. Appenzell Innerrhoden's men never did vote for women's suffrage -- on 27th November 1990 the Swiss Federal Supreme Court decided that there was no need for a change in cantonal constitution in order for women to there.

http://history-switzerland.geschichte-schweiz.ch/chronology-womens-right-vote-switzerland.html

Nope, but the police in the Netherlands speak English, and are highly likely to speak German and Flemish to boot.

Bounci:

Geneva's authorities invest millions to draw expats to come live and work here, and to draw hundreds of thousands of tourists to the city each year. And they do a good job: I recall seeing somewhere that around half of Geneva's population is expat.

So if Geneva wants to draw these expats over here, Geneva should also provide the most basic services for them in a language they could understand. 

I'll give you an example from my own country. Israel does a lot to bring in tourism. One of the things it does is ensure that when tourists come in they can manage the daily stuff in English. Israel goes so far as to have English text on street signs, and to ensure most public offices have some English speaking folks. If you want the expats, you need to cater to their needs.

Nir

Reka:

Geneva's official policy is to do what it can in order to maintain the UN HQ over here, to make Geneva as attractive as possible for Multinationals, and to draw more foreign companies over here. And that's a good thing that helps Geneva and all of us.   

But the above policy is not consistant with Geneva's other policy of not offering basic services - like being able to file a complaint with the Police - in English.

Reka:

I don't think there's anything wrong with pointing things that could work better. 

We live here, and we love some things about Geneva and dislike others. If we dislike something, we post about it...(-;

I don't do much except rant! (-;

I'm surprised each time tho when I see this happening: someone posts about not liking something in Geneva, and then they're attacked for not accepting Geneva or not making the effort or daring to say something bad about the place they live in.

Relax: let people point out stuff that they don't like, it's good to get it out there. 

Alas . . . we are witnessing the demise of Geneva and perhaps Switzerland. 

With the continued dilution of real Swiss, it's no wonder that Geneva is so often now referred to as "la Bronx".  Language is just one very visible manner, but ethics, cleanliness, civility, law abiding, discretion, etc are affected in the same way - dilution to detriment of this country (proof - how many times on the tram/bus do you cringe hearing those obnoxious Anglo's, but do you hear the Francophones in the same degree ?)

30 years ago when the Swiss German's were a major "foreign" force in Geneva, they all spoke decent French, albeit with a terrible accent.  And they weren't complaing about shop openning hours, menus only in French,  . . .

But to turn this issue around, name me another country that accepts a foreign currency in a store, bus ticket/ parking machine, where many customer service people do speak 2 or 3 languages ?  I bet you'd have to look mighty hard in the UK and the US !  Advanced, someone said ????

"in the more advanced Anglo-Saxon countries...... "

Yeah, advanced where up till 1971 some were shamefully still using the Tuskegee black community as living proof of the progression and terminal stages of Syphilis.

Don't some feel ashamed?

And Mr. Tax Exile, the gentleman from the UK....

Not older than the 1960's, in another advanced anglo-saxon country there were an awful lot of "No blacks, no dogs, no Gypsies" signs.

Do you insist on calling that "Advanced" ?

this is very right. I second this.

ok ok ok, enough already! making sweeping generalizations is not convincing nor is it helpful. tell us where you had bad service so we can avoid the place.

here is an interesting point that is worth consideration. hotels are supposed to be where customer satisfaction is of primary importance, right? hotels are the place where a good client relationship will be what makes or breaks a hotel's reputation.

so, where is one of the world's best hotel schools? you got it, lausanne, switzerland!!

go figure

I am ready to hear any critic about Switzerland, but to dear putting such interrogation/critic in this thread, with only your little reference in rue de Fribourg doesnt make any sense.

Are you an unhappy millionaire, spending his day in Les Paquis.

Lets be serious, and not superficial in lounching a thread. Such only shallow example doesnt reflect any general attitude in that country.

oooh, did you date him too? My condolences.

As a swiss living in many countries I allow myself to make remarks punctually to the interested person when something is wrong in Switzerland.

But I would say to many expats, first of all be happy to be in CH and have a job, they are plenty of swiss without jobless. Also some of you are enjoying taxfree salaries; or making price rise for the apartments. So please dont be selfish and egoistic, and shortsighted; in particular those who lived little abroad sofar and are in their first experience to work and live.

In many countries I have experiencied the shortsighted attitude of many foreigners/expats who can only criticize their surroundings.

It is to easy to through any little situation on a thread and make it a general attitude.

I can't say it with absolute certainty, but I believe they do. At the very least they speak English and German. And even if not all police officers speak French, you will be able to find someone in the police station who speaks it.

My experience was at the police station in Terassiere, when I went there to report a stolen bag. I had to do it in French because none of the 5-ish officers there spoke English.

Every nation has shameful parts of its history. We can debate that in a separate thread under the politics forum.*

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the current discussion of customer service and the lack thereof here in Geneva.

There is no other city in the world of similar population size that has such a high concentration of international organizations, ngos, finance, multinational corporations and other international interests.

So, yes, some English-speaking staff are essential for the larger businesses. Staff should be trained to interact with potential customers in a pleasant and professional manner.  In addition, returns policy should be posted in sight of the register and staff should be trained to apologize when at fault. 

The Geneva government should also put more effort behind consumer protection and fair competition rather than allowing cartel-style pricing, particularly in housing.  

http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnews/comparis-grocer-price-war-benefits-marginal.shtml?26302

* a) English is not the official language of the United States. It is the de facto language.

  b) The Bronx (New York) hosts the internationally acclaimed Bronx HS of Science which has produced 7 Nobel prize-winning physicists -- several more than Switzerland.

  c) The Swiss only recently apologized for having institutionalized so-called "anti-social" citizens without trial up until as late as 1981!

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Teenage_prisoners_receive_government_apology.html?cid=28311060