I'll go with both 1 and 2.  I'll add a third, assuming we're talking about our little community: The English-speaking expat community is gender imbalanced.  I can't prove that but I strongly suspect it.

'boring hetero subject'???

You right on the boring part but when it comes to relationships and dating there is no distinction between gay or straight...we all face the same issues at some point or another

Thanks for the interesting comments.The English- speaking thing is interesting BUT I was actually having this conversation with a friend in London and she experiences the same problems there so....,maybe the language thing is not such a big part of the problem as we might think.

So after your discussion, you came up with the fault being:
1. with the men
2. inadvertantly with the men

Nice.

 This was all pretty much covered in that thread about working women from a few months back (though originally from ~2009). And by covered i mean exhausted.

Things are not so black and white. It could be one of a thousand reasons, and I think realising that some of it lies with these 'middle-aged women' is probably a good start.

I also have to applaud the use of 'still in good shape' as a filter, considering that is essentially what the select middle aged men are doing when choosing younger partners (using looks as a filter). In the same way that you expect the men to 'keep it tight' & stay in shape, would you expect older ladies to get plastic surgery?

Ignoring your spin on the topic, I would say there is not as much of a system for middle aged people to meet and socialise. Every 10 years the people of your age group generally shrinks around you. You have school, then uni, then work but still a lot of university contact, then gradually time and life spreads people out. By 40, I would assume it would be a very select group of friends, most of whom will be married.
 

dharmari-    I reckon the lesbian women are in better shape.I gather that gay men tend to be very body conscious ......as opposed to straight men who seem to think they are fine as they are - even if they REALLY are not!!!

Yes,but the problem is that,when the men become unhitched,they are often...well,they have already gone to splodge.I don't approve of cosmetic surgery,but many middle- aged women are still in good physical shape because our culture has put so much pressure on them to do so!

It is quite easy to meet a lot of single middle-aged men.The problem is meeting ones who are old beyond their years,totally un attractive or fixated on meeting someone younger

Maybe to solve this problem you should get a few middle aged women together, set up a speed dating thing with a mixed batch of young and middle aged men and then at the end of the night, ask each men why they didnt fancy the women? I think you might be surprised to find out that it is hardly physical appearance that matters but personality and general outlook on life

Good luck getting an honest answer out of the men.  Truth-telling is not permitted around here, as much as we'd love to let the judgements fly.

sweeping generalisation after sweeping generalisation. I'd imagine that you are not fond of the culture which puts pressure on women to be in shape, which makes it surprising that you feel that you can judge all these men who probably have very busy work schedules and that fat is far harder to burn the older you get.

Well certain things cant be kept in shape via exercise, hence surgery was my jovial alternative. And I hate to break it to you but middle aged women are 'splodgy' (though possibly not as much as men) and to mention the crude topic of 'sagging'. Remember that you are basing this all off people you've met, not an actual global survey. 

In younger years, the fairer sex have more of the deciding vote and are in the position to pick their partners more than men are. This gradually shifts a little, and at the middle age arena, it is more on the male side. 

To be honest, you seem like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder with regards to men and this isnt based purely on this thread but previously threads.

But going back on topic, this is going to change in years to come, the newer generation males are more interested in many things and keeping fit or at least in shape is much more in fashion and the pressure to be in good shape is on both sexes now, not majoritvely on women. 

If I'm not mistaken women are more likely to break it off at that age than men, which makes me think that if the men are still a 'catch' then their wives would be content, and so the old saying of all the good ones are taken is probably a big part of it.

Lots of interesting comments here.

Sorry men if my comments sound a bit harsh......no,that they DO sound harsh.That's not really fair.Sorry,sorry.

It's just that I know so many gorgeous women in their late 40's floating around................,and so few men who match them(and they've got great personalities too Dhamari !)

Ha ha-like richardm's comment just above!

And,yes,Farzam,bitter and twisted,that's me(you've got me in one,though we've never even met).......though strangely there are quite a few women who are saying similar things around me.

Just trying to stir up a bit of discussion here

The problem you're finding is that the man's perfect woman is found by simple mathematics,  half your age + 7. Inversely to find the age of the man that's oogling you, take your age -7 and then double it!

Buzzcocks, yes your comments are a little harsh... not all guys in there 40;s have gone to seed, the same as not all women in thier 40's look after themselves.I think the issue here is that some women in thier 40's have very set opinions about what they want and if all the boxes are not ticked, then they dont even bother looking. 

Age is a state of mind, and has everything to do with your own personal outlook on life.  If you quantify what you want simply by putting a number there, or on the potential fitness of your partner, then you are not being open to other possibilities. 

Yes us guys do like  younger woman, it a natural evolutionary thing. However i personally dont think it precludes anyone from having a relationship.  Its whats in the heart that counts. Not your age, nor your size. Frankly I look at younger women, they are very easy on the eye, however that wouldnt stop me going out/dating or having a relationship with an older women if we had similar interests and got on well.  A lot of people these days are preconditioned by the media to look  for very a specific kind of person, and if we drop those social conditions, then we would be  more able to find a good match.

I think your part 1 answer is very wrong, men would consider women in their 40's if women were open to looking beyond a number and a style. 

Attractiveness is in the ye of the beholder, and i have seen many very attractive women in their 40's , I have also seen many women who actually dont care about their appearance. The same applies to men. It takes all kinds to make a world, so I try not to pre judge anyone. If i like you and we have the click, then a relationship can develop. It takes two to tango as they say, so if one is not willing then nothing develops, no dance no music, and no relationship.

I don't agree on the part where you say that women take care of themselves and men not. I think it's just the opposite. Men grow up doing sports and they are more inclined to keep that lifestyle later in life.

If I could find ONE woman my age with my fittness level, the bells would be ringing :-)

Crossfit gym.

Hahaha!

Niklas - OK, you're on :o)

Also - It's amazing how many times this needs to be said and why it's so difficult to digest already: Men prefer younger women. For biological and reproductive reasons and orignally and I suppose. Not their fault, hormones, et cetera...... Period ( Igrew up as the only sister to four brothers. Trust me  I know my stuff). If you absolutely want a man, you hence need to look in an age group above your own. That simple. Good luck!  

It is an intersting topic and i think you are right up to some extent. Men with age of 40 above look for young women rather than looking for their age group.But on the other hand there is another fact that the women with more age above 40 can find out young boys of about 30 above age.

Btw I'm single and almost 30 so if a GOOD looking and IN SHAPE guy - but around my age - is around please let me know LOL :o)

Hassel - I'd say that exception to the general rule applies only to the really rich and/or famous ones, hahaha! 

Laura  -  I am over 40, and I exercise 3-4 times /week since way back when.

Saying that men generally like younger women may be simplifying it a bit too much. If I ever will be in a situation where I can actually choose between women who look equally good, I'd prefer the one closest to my age.

And I have heard of cases where younger men look for older women. Those guys usually don't want kids.

That shouldn't be too hard... :)

Noted :)

What if you don't FANCY older men???

Very true .........but these young guys are usually just looking for sex and are not looking to the long term."Young boys"(of 30???) might not be so interesting,intellectually for some women,anyway.

I don't think being interesting or having intellectual capacity are age related, i know plenty of people over 40 who are duller than a grey paint chart.  Also common interests or moral viewpoints can bridge an age gap to a point.  I think by 30 guys are generally looking for more long term, i think just looking for sex is, generally speaking, more the early 20's

Yes, well, hahaha, then you do of course have a bit of a problem ( What, like not ANY of the older dudes?! Even the stll-fairly-fit-and-active-and do-take-care-of-themselves-ones.....???).

Well, in such a case I guess you could possibly wish to consider one or several of the following options:

a) How are you doing on the "fame and fortune"-side of things? Any hidden talents which could be say taped, posted on YouTube and trigger instant such? 

b) Could having some major work done, and then just simply lie about your age, be a viable solution?

c) Re-consider why you wanted a guy in the first place. Let's face it: They're generally not all that great an investment ( think high maintenanc and low returns....)

:o) 

Over 40 /under 40, I always listen to people complain how hard it is to find a partner or actually even a simple date and to be honest, it’s boring! The issue I see with most “not wanting to be single” people is that they forget that you actually have to leave the house to meet someone. I agree that as we get more ‘mature’ we do get more comfortable but let’s face it, sitting at home in the evening having a TV meal on your own is not going to help you.

would a man ask himself this question?

If not, why would a woman?

Hence, what is the difference?

Oh, excellent!! Gender-bender discussion time........

Interesting equation: do you know how this came up?

Ermmm........who said anything about staying at home in the evenings?Did I miss a post on here??

Well, women are pressured to "be in shape" otherwise men won't look at them. On the other end, men are pressured "to make money" otherwise women won't look at them. And also to be in shape. And also to have hair. And also...

Niklas/Laura: Get a room, you two !! :o)

See, much more difficult for us men...

Who says men have to "make money"? Isn't that a bit 1950's? Personally I have never looked at men in that way-I find it very old fashioned(do women still think like that in 2013?If so,it's outrageous)

I only fulfill the 'SHAPE' part of 'Laura's List'... 2/3 still missing :-)

Quite a few of those still around...

Hair is optional - not an issue(shaved heads have been very popular in recent years,especially as more younger men tend to lose hair earlier)

Are you serious?

unfortunately yes

That's very,very depressing

I have met at least 5 women here in GVA in the last 6 months who are the equivilant of truffle sniffing pigs, except money sniffing. One of them took a boat course, just so it would be easier to find a man with a boat...

Seeing as the main theme of this thread is gender bashing- maybe it would be more constructive for the men to inform the misguided middle age women on what they actually want in a partner????

"Be in shape" is obviously one point for both men and women.

Unfortunately, I can only confirm women's money sniffing culture in Geneva and here around...

And thanks Farzam for the expression "truffle sniffing pigs". It made me laugh so much....

The...Wikipedia: The... is the debut extended play by South Korean boyband JYJ, a group formed of three of the five members of TVXQ. It was released in Japanese language under Rhythm Zone, the band's former Japanese label as a part of TVXQ. The release was commercially successful, reaching number one on Oricon's weekly albums chart. →TWikipedia: T (named tee) is the 20th letter in the ISO basic Latin alphabet. →

same old, same old...  nothing really interesting IMHO

Agreed and Dhamari, you killjoy, you! :o)

Isn't this what women want? 

Yin vs. yang, testosterone vs. oestrogen, Power and dominance vs. emotion and cognition, youth and fertility vs. status and security............... Women and men are different. Which is nether good nor bad.  It's just the way it is, and part of the charm. The more we embrace and accept this as a state of facts, driven, at least partly, by natural and primal needs (some of them long gone evolution-wise, and true that, but still remaining in our DNA, unfortunately), rather than any conscious and active choices on our parts, then the easier it is for all us to work together and use such differenes to all of our ours advantages, both in relationships and porfessionally, and without any blame-games or bitterness or judgments. Balance is key, guys. And tolerance. And a good dose of humour.........

So, and on that note:

Group hug, anyone??? :o)

Hahaha, and ah yes, but that sense of humour of yours will most likely get you miles also, not to worry! 

Was she over 40?

If you look like this I'm interested, whatever age you are 30+ of course :-))

Well I'm a well off bald man in his 40s and find that there's not enough 43/2+7s chasing me around town, what is going wrong? Maybe I just spend too much time doing sport ...

hmm...

Maybe in Germany it's different. And in Switzerland.
Cannot confirm the theory.

I think she was ~35 so close but not quite 

So if this guy hit Soleil Rouge one night he'd clean up! 

According to UNECE, marriage happens at about 3 years older for men in Germany and about 2 years in Switzerland. They're not sticking to the rules are they!

I hear 35 is the new 20............

It is if you've accumulated enough cash for the Smart car and boat

me? killjoy?? nevah :)

The killjoys are the boring people who have the same responses to the threads with similar topics, providing nothing new or informative. Throw in a new angle and suddenly we have a lively discussion again with different people and different viewpoints! Refreshing!

HARD TRUTH: Because single ex-pat life in Zürich is intoxicating and fun. It's just that girls realise this earlier, and even though they could find a nice, mature guy who is even 40 and fit, they still hang out for a guys of their age (who want to stay single as long as possible).

By the time the girls are 40, they are no longer considered as attractive to guys their age as younger girls, because men are naturally (read subconsciously) attracted to women who can bear children (even if they don't want any).

As a just-turned- 40 guy who is very fit and young looking and happy to settle down and have a family with the right woman, my target group is the 32-40 y.o. age for that reason. But many even in that age group are hanging out for younger guys who are just not interested in settling down.So it becomes lose-lose all round.

HaHaHa...Great sense of humour Richard!

Shall we share the expenses for the smart car and the boat to trap any "truffle sniffing pigs" on a rotation basis? LOL

That could be the trick! HaHaHa (kidding of course)

Hmm... children the excuse to "let go".   I think a lot of parents (myself included) would take that comment pretty harshly! 

Personally all my friends who are parents are quite fit -- there's a TONNE of exercise programs out there for mothers.  Most don't involve gyms though -- we exercise outdoors (with or without our kids with us). Those who do go to the gym, well, it's not at night (gotta put the kiddos to bed then!!) so I doubt you'd ever see them when you are there!  :) 

I do agree with you on one thing though, like you, I keep myself in good shape and take good care of myself.   But I think everyone should do this for themselves, not just to find a partner.

Thanks guys!

Owing to your precious comments, I finally found my soulmate...

Quite a 'boorish' comment...

LOL.

At least she was honest.  :)   "They" do say to do things you are interested in -- so if she's interested in boats... or that is men with boats....  

being over 40 most of people have been in shorter or longer realtionships. Some had been devorced, which is rarely a plesent experince. I think that makes people also more cautious about getting into new relationships.. some may want to have a break, or not a "serious relationship", expecially if they had hard experince before. So, they may be less "forward".. more reserved which does make people less attractive..  and that valid for both men and women...

regarding men looking for youger women.. hhmm... if, lets say: if i was a man, who had difficult relationship/marridge before (usually with a women within the same age), got out of it and be free, in the 40s, ready to try again, trying something diffrent, i would also try with a younger women - why not!  

Maybe not you, maybe not me, maybe not others (hopefully). But most women prefer sitting on a Porsche rather then on a Panda or dating a successful whatever than the guy working in the market stall.

I think this surely depends upon whom you know.

Most of my women friends make -- and keep -- their own money. Many have already been married and divorced and do not want to have to work, take care of household arrangements, and a man.

Some much prefer the company of men, including those much younger, on a periodic basis without having to confine these activities in the context of a relationship. 

I know just as many miserable married as single people and just as many men looking as women. And there is 'piggish' behavior on both sides.

Ahh,yes,of course this had to happen eventually.

how "unpredictable".Yawnnnnnn

This thread began with interesting comments......but then degenerated into the usual Glocals thread styleee(flirting,misogyny,sexist google images,attempts at saying "we are all the same",getting away from the issue etc and  so on and so on.

But,hey,that's all part of the Glocals  forum experience

I'm too tired to follow now.Have a good weekend.

Zzzzzzzz

Just had to add- intelligent and important points made here!

And,of course,a few other people have added some very interesting angles on the discussion too,for which,many thanks.

sweet dreams everyone.....

I've got many more brothers than EvaD and it is not the case with them. Most of them married or are with women 3-4 years maximum, if not almost the same age. Same with most of my men friends. And neither expects the other to carry the financial burden. 

I have, however, observed more often a decade age gap with men friends on their second or third marriage. And more often than not, those women are able to have children without having to hold down full-time and seriously career oriented jobs that involve working outside the home.

Some men, of course, also feel more secure with a younger woman whose career is less high-powered and whose salary is relatively lower. 

Of course some of this is down to nature, which is also why we need laws to protect 25 year-old men from going after 15 year olds because some men would say it is only 'natural' to be attracted to a younger female. 

Of course it did, you invited it in....but missed the point as usual ;-)

To answer your questions with my subjective opinion from when I was single:

1) Sounds like something these women to whom you're referring would tell themselves in order to make themselves feel better. 

2) This theory really doesn't portray the women to whom you're referring in a good light. If the main criteria of how you're judging men is how 'fit' they are, then this the negates any personality traits the may have and only serves to make the women in question look mind-numblingly shallow.

Maybe you are misunderstanding me.Of COURSE we are not only interested in men being "fit" - that can be quite dull if not matched with other qualities....and interests.

Of course personality is incredibly important - any woman will tell you that.But physical attractiveness is also important( as most men would agree!)

I hope I am not mind- numbingly shallow? Last time I looked,everything seemed ok

Agree, but believe me, generally and on average, the older a woman gets, the less she desires men of his own or greater age.  The problem is that women have been programmed to deny this fact and have also interiorized the belief that while is "natural" for men to go with younger women, the opposite is somewhat inappropriate.   

Fortunately, this way of thinking is changing and nowadays you do not have to be a rich celebrity to enjoy freely the natural instincts that Mother Nature bestowed on us.

I think that at after so many generalizations, somebody as to come out of the closet.

Yes, I’m a man in my 40’s and most of the women I dated in that decade were significantly younger than me. It doesn’t mean that I’m closed to woman in my age range; I dated some too. But it’s much less frequent. Here are my personal reasons:

-I find a delicious complementarity with a certain kind of younger women. They are newly entered in the active life; they’re full of projects, enthusiasm, bold ideas… I find that really refreshing, I share their enthusiasm and it gives me energy. I’m more experienced and settled in life, I bring them hindsight and balance. It’s a great trade, definitely a win-win situation.

-A lot of my females friends complain about men in their forties: they’re always in the middle of a nasty divorce, with a lot of unresolved issues, a difficult relationship with their ex…Well, I often have the same feeling with women in my age range. I don’t blame them but sorry, I find that a little bit heavy.

-It would be highly hypocritical to claim that physical appearance plays no role. It does, for me as well as for them. And it’s true that in that regard, younger women globally have a competitive advantage – though some women in their forties are far more attractive than others in their early thirties. But don’t fool yourself: it’s only one of the factors. For me, it certainly weighs less than the complementarity factor, which I explained above.

That’s it. I know that a lot of people frown upon men who date younger women. I regret it but it won’t change anything: I’ll continue dating women that I’m attracted to, once in a while older than me and most often, younger.

Buzzcoks is not the only that missed the point according to you!

the state of "fitness level" also may tell something about the persoanlity. What i i mean is: the way person looks like: dressed, body shape, well or not well taken care of: heair, hands.. etc..  can reveal somethings about personality. .. dont you agree?

overweight: maybe likes fast food, maybe works a lot and the sport has no priority.. maybe most of the free time spends in a pub working on a beer belly. For someone, for whom well being (in a phiscial sense: hiking, some sport) is important, it is difficult to make a relationship work, regardless how great personality the other person have ..

I know from experince, i tried to make my ex- BF move a bit more, tried to encourage him to eat diffrent things then pizza.. kebab..   but i failed, so i eate pizza with him .. and on a longer run i suffered.. it was not me .. we split up :(

do not be silly! it is always a pleasure reading your intelligent posts!

@ Bustan, thank you for your honest post!

Just like you .. i also find younger men:

"...newly entered in the active life; they’re full of projects, enthusiasm, bold ideas… I find that really refreshing, I share their enthusiasm and it gives me energy.."

Mmm,you have a point but...it isn't that straight forward.My last BF was not really "fit" in the sporty sense,but very attractive,intelligent,funny,young at heart( in late forties)and had an interesting,alternative style.

Another one  - short-lived -  was very sporty and in good shape......but pretty dull in the end as very conventional,straight and middle- aged in the head.

Maybe I am just too fussy

.....or maybe I should look to the other gender.With all these gorgeous women around in my age- group who are single and combine being attractive,bright,good company,quick- witted,young in spirit,independent,........maybe I've been looking in the wrong direction 

I'm off to get on with my weekend now.And,who knows......?

By simply mathematics, as you say, what bout 60 y.o. women? 

Please, don't add mathematics to the argument! ;-)

of course it is not that straight forward. But there has to be attraction, and attraction has many "faces".. could be phisical: the look (that is good for a start, first 5 min chatting .. ) chemistry: (i dont know what that is.. but make ppl attracted to each other for unknown reason, at least to me..) .. or soul mate, or somemething that you look up to .. like intelligence

I am not after a body builder .. actually ppl. who pay too much attention to their looks esp. men, scare me a bit..  

actually, I could fall for a big boss in my dept.. the problem is, he is on the other side of the globe, and I assume happily married  actually a grand father! i think he is about 50..  and not really fit .. but he is brave, intelligent, successful and yet! cares for ppl, and is sincere ..  and that combination i do look up ..  and he doesnt  have "the look".. still i could fall for him..  so, i understand what you are saying..

no, you are not too fussy. We just have to first find and then pick what "does" for us..

NSFW.  Relevant.

Men looking at the over 40 - in my case over 45 - girls segment raise the bar much higher than they used to 20 years younger, particularly when it comes to character. 

Girlishness, plastic surgery, lipstick :  the tolerance we used to have for all those things in our 20s, is by far and large gone 20 years later.

Cordialement

Maybe set up a 40 plus group and see who joins....who knows what could happen then.....if not we can all be single and 40 something's together, happy days!

:-) 

Richdog, is there a scientific basis to this claim? As a 36 year old, I typically find the average 50 year old less sexually attractive than the average 25 year old. I know that most of my female friends share this view. 

The notion that women desire older men surely has some historical basis. Until very recently in our culture marriage was primarily an economic partnership, the  woman's family would seek a man who could provide financial stability. This was more likely with a man who'd worked long enough to establish himself.

We are now able to support ourselves, and women seeking a wealthy man are viewed as 'truffle sniffing pigs'. In fact women are now able to use their wealth to ensnare a buff, young, truffle-sniffing male. 

Start a 40+ bi-curious, hot femme group. That could be fun.. ;-)

I am attracted to people of various ages, older and younger - of course it depends on the individual. I'm just always inclined to question the use of the word 'natural' as an explanation or justification for behaviors. With such a history of gender inequality, sexuality and sexual behaviour are massively influenced by culture. This makes it very difficult to determine what is natural, and what is culturally determined. It's my personal belief that men and women are much more similar than we tend to assume.

A lot of what you say makes sense, but what would be the natural / biological / evolutionary justification for a woman being attracted to an older man? From a purely reproduction oriented perspective, where is the advantage?

I'm no fertility expert, but all of the research indicates that male fertility declines steadily with age. It makes no sense from a purely evolutionary perspective for a woman to choose a mature mate. This leads me to believe it's a cultural construct, based on a more mature man's socio-economic status. 

Well I think if you were to give backing to the idea of women being attracted to older men be it any of the 'biological' inclinations, remember that up until recently neither sex lived for that long. It is a very modern situation for human to live to 80-90yrs old especially to such a high percentage of the population. 

So with  that in mind, when you speak of older men and younger men, the age ranges are very different, i.e. 15-20yr old females, and 25-40yr old men. So when thinking of feritility, at that age (more the earlier side of the bracket), men are still incredibly fertile. So when thinking of why women would be inclined to seek an older male, it would be logical as they are going to at their peak, physical stronger than rivals, and most likely in a more powerful position in their 'society'. 

It's no secret that girls mature at a slightly faster pace at the younger stages, so you would assume that an older aged male partner would also make sense. But that is harder to pin down as accurate over the milennias.

Yes, it's a very valid point. A few millennia, (or even centuries ago), ago we wouldn't live much past 40 anyway. I doubt people worried much about infertility or age differences back then - a man would just grab whatever he could and the woman had little choice but to be grabbed. Happy days :-)

I have never known or met a male who seeks a rich women. It just isnt really up there as even a small priority. Though I'm sure they exist, but the percentage must be infinitesimal. 

You have to remember that a girl paying her way is considered a big plus, which means on average a guy who finds a girl who wants to pay her way, he is pretty damn pleased about that, so a rich women would be just a luxury rather than a necessity which I think is where the differentiation lies between the sexes in terms of 'truffle sniffing pigs'.

p.s. I am super glad I have helped that phrase be thrown around  

Going back to over 40s and difficulties, I think that something to also consider is that these people (mostly speaking of those who have been married etc) have just had rather severe heartache/rejection/mental trauma, after some ~15yrs of not having experienced something like that. So having not experienced that for so long, I think that it is far fresher a painful feeling and they will be reclusively hesitant to venture out again. A break up after a year is painful and takes time to recover, a break up after 20yrs must be brutal and can leave some with the mentality of 'why bother anymore'

There have certainly been a lot of very valid comments here. As a guy of 50+ I date a lot of women in there 30's to whom age has never been an issue. I don't pick and choose according to age. It just happens that I never seem to meet women over 40, in my social group. Social conditioning does play a big part, in today's society. However that said you can break the mould simply by being open to other possibilities , and widening your scope. We all have issues, in our past, male and female, young and old, that we carry with us, no of us are the perfect match, but we can try to be less fixed in our views, and not pre judge each other. If you like the look of a guy ladies, then go for it! Don't decide oh he doesn't have this kind of job, or this kind of social status, before you get to know someone. He may have a heart of gold waiting for you. Stop complaining , oh why don't I meet such and such. Stop worrying if your bum looks big, or you have an extra wrinkle or two, stop worrying about how you look. If a guy can't accept you as you are, then you shouldn't be accepting him. Us guys are pretty simple creatures, we want warmth, love affection, feeding and sex, to be able to follow our hobbies, give us those things, and we give back :-)

The other difficulty here in Switzerland, is that we are in a transient society, a lot of people here are only here short term, we belong to a larger than normal multi-cultural group, there are various issues with culture, background,and upbringing. What is acceptable to one group, could be abhorrent to others. And vice versa. So we have to learn to be accepting of other cultures, and backgrounds. Be open to all possibilities, instead of trying to fit each other into a specific box. Ladies, there are guys out there :-)

It's an international trend...

It is a common tale but true : I personaly think that it is the inside that makes the beauty.

The paradox is that the more you consider how attractive you might still be, the less attractive you are - ha ha. More explicitly you can fool your way around in your 30s as a superstar, but admiring yourself in a mirror works less and less after a while (this is true in relationships as well as in age, whether man or woman).

 "why so few singles over 40?" The answer is in the question.

SUch a question is the equivalent to me to "why are there no stars left". Get out of the light, walk in the dark, look up, and be patient if there are some clouds. You will see some. So change your eyes to the situation - and open them to other people.

 When the finger points at the moon, the idiot looks at the finger (Lao Tseu).

Is not anyone worth at last a "moon" ?

Eva D i understood what you said in first line. But what do you mean by second statement about over 40 years and do exercise, just elaborate this sentence.

ps : typo mistake : is not anyone worth at least "a moon".

(phrased differently : scratch the surface)

Guys... character, humor and shape all count...esp if its to last beyond a night...

lighten up y'all... have fun whilst you still can.

Why do women feel they need to date men in the same age group. I am with a gorgeous, fit man who is caring, intelligent, funny and kind. He is also  younger than me! We have been together for nearly 2 years now and are very happy. So sometimes it is good to think outside the box and look at other options. Men have been dating younger women for years and I have noticed that more and more women are dating younger men so go girl!

codswallop! I presume you are joking, you certainly made me laugh!

Note to Nir, would be great if we had an option to disagree with a post just by clicking on a button. We only have the option to thank poster at the moment which is a bit limited!

Just a note of caution to all you men who think you will still be fertile into your 70s, take a look at this article :

http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/features/age-raises-infertility-risk-in-men-too

I once found a 100CHF note on the ground, that doesnt necessarily mean all glocals folks will also find such things lying around. It's about dealing with expectations.

Sure look outside your box, but be fully prepared for those outside the box to quickly notice that you most likely do not fall in their box. I think the main point of that piece of advice is that going below your age, then the pool in which you swim is not going to be quite as reciprical as the same age group would be. So you can aim for a younger guy but be prepared for more knockbacks and less commitment, aim for your own age and you might not get quite as handsome a man but are much more likely to find someone and at the same stage in life.

I think from the responses on here, it can be taken to close to the truth that generally speaking after a certain age men who find older women attractive slowly reduce in numbers. I was a big fan when I was 16-24, and then slowly that isnt the case quite as much. Don't get me wrong, there are still many older women who I think are still very appealing both mentality and physically, but I mostly look around my age now (28) in the bracket of ~22-32. But it's not that much of a stretch to assume that most men irrespective of age will find women aged 21-25 attractive, the case is unfortunately not true for the higher brackets.

But if you think that 2 women with the same strengths in character, one who is 25 and one who is 45, are likely to be found equally attractive by a guy, then...well...it's going to be a rough reality.

Also I think not being able to just dislike someones comment is good as it makes people explain themselves, which gives value to the forum. 

It may not be 100% black and white but I generally think that in couples, both partners will be of the same level as eachother,be it filthy rich, comfortable,or just getting by, be it model looks, average looks or less than average etc etc etc. Would I be right or wrong in saying that most couples seem well matched in the looks department? This is something you can see. It's easier to notice than ones bank balance. After all this then comes what they want out of life,ie if they both want the same things.  I also think that both sexes want much more from a partner than they did years ago. Maybe even wanting ALL boxes ticked,all 100 of them. Personally I would settle for 99 haha.I am not an expert in this but it's just my twopence worth.

I must start hanging round with you Karl lol

Exactly

There goes 'Love knows no boundaries' down the drain.

If we are talking about love, then I just cannot imagine how can we be so calculative about it and plan for it based on age, etc. Life and love would be so boring that way. Leave the Math for work and studies. Go out there with an open heart, no matter how many times you have burnt your fingers before. 

Pardon me if we are really talking about something else here.

Btw: if you are 60+ and look like this I don't mind either

So how did you get my picture ?? 

Madona dates men half her age (or even less than half). Its because she can afford it!

Who doesnt want a comfortable life? There are many men who are dating women much older than them because they want to make themseleves comfortable and I personally dont find that negative at all. I have friends with full time jobs who date younger men, some of those men are not even working or working half time. In the world of dating its NOT only the "looks" and attraction which counts. Today people have a whole list of things they want in a partner. Money and status being on top! If you are rich and successful you have a "buffet" of men and women to choose from. 

I do agree with the "nature" part though. There are many factors which affect our choices BUT if we come to JUST nature then men prefer younger women. Men are fertile until very late, even if you try to fight this fact you cant change it. 

Here on this forum I see less facts and more egoism/feminism/ machoism etc. Only if each of you stick to reality and ACCEPT it you wont be disagreeing so badly ;)  

To be honest my experience since I turned 30 is:

It's not always the more mature women chasing younger men but the young guys running after you. Cannot be helped. Cannot be helped...

Well..yeah...if you can FIND IT!!

That's the whole point.

if it wasn't true then MILF would never have become a commonly used term.

Now i think the discussion is crossing the limits and we are moving to the next level. The discussion is getting hotter and we may distracting from the real question.

Is the term MILF commonly used, outside of porn world?

It doesn't have its roots in porn, so yes MILF is used outside of porn. Commonly? I am not sure, but I have heard it being used from time to time, even in German.

J Lo is 43 years old, her boyfriend is 26. Madonna is 55, her boyfriend is 22. If you don't have a boyfriend, no need to worry. Maybe he is not born yet? ;)

MILF is a rather common term in American slang, and I was using it before I'd ever seen porn. According to wiki, it originated online, but whether porn adopted it b/c it fit a theme which pre-dated the term I have no idea. 

Cougar effectively refers to the same thing, just more active (MILF is someone desired; a cougar goes out and gets what she desires) is also used, again mostly in North America and not in any specific connection to the porn world.

MMM between me and Madonna and/or J Lo there are not only few years.. but also some millions. So no chance for a toyboy for me. Anyway i'm going to Cuba this summer, maybe I'll come back with a nice husband ;-)

Delseta, I'm happy to hear that you pulled a nice young man. I recall you spending at least 2 hours a day in the gym - it's clearly paying off ;-)

I hope these help...

Finding Mr or Miss "right" is not the same as finding Mr or Miss "perfect". Perhaps some of you have too high standards, maybe some have standards that are not high enough, the reality is that we all have to compromise one way or another when it comes to dating.

I wonder if its coincidence that most of these "dating" themed threads appear shortly before all the summer festivities start and when the weather is hot.

Montreaux Jazz, Paleo and Fete de Geneve are all just around the corner.

If youre single and so inclined maybe organise a meet up at a bar at one of these events, break the ice and enjoy summer.

What youre not "finding" may well be a simple case of opening your eyes to whats in front of you. Not simple or foolproof, but worth a try.

This is so true. My ex (over 40) and my current hubby have over 10 years age difference and trust me   you would think the over 40 is a teenager. maturity really has nothing to do with age.

Actually I dont think its the women who think like that. Its just a man thing for some men they want to be the providers no matter how rich the woman is they want to be in a better position. I have seen some friends who have had issues when the man lost his job.

I'm still single, but you won't get me that easily.....

Interesting!  To get back to the original question, I think a lot of people in their 40s (men and women and any sexual orientation) don't tend to like doing what those in their 20s/30s do - go out and socialise but prefer more focused interests (or just like staying home!), also a lot of their friends are married with kids.  I think both sexes are attracted to good looking, fit and healthy. Youth forgives many vices that catch up with one later!  Also, as somebody mentioned, time and heartache take their toll and people can (not always) end up bitter or resentful, desperate or unforgiving (amongst others) despite still being fit, intersting, nice, kind. Perhaps less OPEN and willing to throw caution to the wind, just relax and have fun and get to know somebody the same way you would when less 'wounded'.  Different avenues really have to be used if you want to meet somebody in your 40s, online dating for one. Another is maybe letting go of wanting to meet somebody and having fun with your friends or on your own, liking your own company (but I know, it can be lonely).  Personally, I have only dated younger men (from a few years to 15) and it hasn't been because I chose them for their age but just cos we were attracted to each other. I'm not particularly hot or fit!! I also am not a truffle snuffling pig (hee hee - I think that's kinda cute). I've heard it said that rich man and young woman is often a cultural (and yes, natural) throwback that is swiftly becoming eroded in western civilization. I guess as woman don't 'need' another's wealth to survive. I have noticed in some cultures though, it still persists. Anyway, I'm blabbering. .... Charlie I think you have a point too, the sunshine must do something to people's pheremones or something!

Im still single , and available,..... youll get me quite easy ;) 

If this thread is turning into a dating site.....I'm gonna start charging a subscription

www.cougar-match.ch 

Who ya gonna charge.... buzzbusters...... ;)

I can understand the difficulty, its not easy being single, and largly agree with your comments. However not all younger men are more fit and active, the same as there are older men who are fit and active, as for open mindedness i have to disagree , i think as you get older men tend to be more open minded. You say you have extremely high standards, and  yet that in itself is limiting , to the kind of man your looking for .. and you say age is just a number yet you date younger men only ..  hmmm 

Ahem!

I would just like it on the record that I posted my MJF picnic activity BEFORE reading this thread - honestly - no ulterior motive intended! 

"Catch me if you can", then "try and keep up"...

So you still have a few years to make some millions ;).. but going to Cuba is a good strategy! Too bad that I already spent all my free days for this year, so I'll just keep attending the glocals events))

And how about a 43 years old, but looking more like 35, and in very good shape, and with the spirit of the 30s as well ?  :-)

Cheers

Glad I'm out of the running given I'm also a 43 year old who looks like I was born in 1935, in shape (although the shape is the same as that of a sack of spuds)! 

The Cuban Green card marriage! Marvellous! I can see absolutely no possible downside to this idea whatsoever! You go girl! 

"...the reality is that we all have to compromise one way or another"

I am not bilingual enough to make public written jokes in English, so let's give it a shot to a philosophical angle.

An interesting question is : how come that I need someone to love. I know that love is a gift and that you can help but not force your destiny - besides, that being desperate in finding someone is not the best trick for seduction. Anyway, there are ups and downs in both being bachelor or in a relationship, so why not taking live as it comes?

If I dig further, I kind of feel that there is an empty part in myself that I would like a significant other to fill (and not just my next vacation plan - ha ha).

Then I can realize that this empty part in myself will never be filled by anyone else, not even by the nicest person in the world, not even with the so generous love a of child.

Long story short : this empty part of my self means that I am not a god nor a perfect guy. It means that I am a human being. There is a lot of myself in it. It is perhaps my tragedy. Perhaps my mystery. Perhaps even my real "beauty".

Do not fly away from your empty part, do not try to bury it  or ask anyone to fulfill it. Consider it. Respect it.

Make it your source of love to other people, instead of your request for other people's love.

Make it your strengh.

<and offer me a beer. You will not believe it but I have not drinken before writing this - ha ha>.

What a great contribution in the middle of ......well,I won't say.

Thank you Pierre for making such an important point - something to really think about.It's a truth many of us know - but often forget.

but....but....but... but.... you look sooo good rena ;) 

I am not sure what's GOOD looking for you. But if you'd like to meet up in Geneva over a cup of coffee do let me know..

Quite often we think the same things ... but in different contexts...

Lots of interesting points here that also sum up many other observations made by women.

It's interesting to read that many women of a certain age report having relationships and connections with significantly younger men despite what some men believe and even despite what is reported. 

In addition, it's fascinating -- and hiliarious -- to read that some men believe that men of any age remain attractive as long as they are 'virile' (undefined) and/or fertile. This has nothing to do with multi-billion dollar industries pushing viagra, testosterone injections and plastic surgery for men, of course.   

And yes, there are lots of male gold-diggers out there as well but those men don't necessarily brag about that to other men as it wouldn't be....virile.

what a Popular Thread........

You might find this entry an interesting starting point if you are so inclined and have the time to get serious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matching_hypothesis

ps: am I the only one to find dating overrated and theatrical (in the bad sense)? sometimes I hang out on those dating websites to improve my French and I am asked out quite often! I always say no, I have better things to do with the very little time I have left after work, thankyouverymuch.

Pierre, I think you're a Better Person than the rest of us xx  ;-)

What is the name of the artist?

Against all the odds!

Do not understand?..? what you mean?....

Paul,

I see what you are trying to say. 

There's something called theory theory - http://www.laddertheory.com/

PS - At times we all act as cynically as you are but then we revert back to living the life however boring/trying it might be. And trust me it's better when you are not alone.

Typo - Ladder theory.

I don't think your comments were harsh at all. Maybe some people feel the cap fits them and feel attacked? I don't know. You quite clearly said "lots of men" and "a lot of men", unlike someone else who said "middle aged women are 'splodgy'" after accusing you of "sweeping generalisations". I've dated a couple of women over 50 (shock! horror!) and both took great care of themselves and had great bodies, even if it took a lot of talk and encouragement to convince them of that.

Younger? Older? What the hell. Who cares? Life's way too short, and people far too interesting, to worry about numbers.

Nice Reply lart U.

Wow- this thread is  full of surprises