When you want to find an explanation of the fact that only 45 % of women between 30 and 45 are married, you also need to find out whether there are any men out there who aren't afraid of mariage.
A lot of my female friends (very smart, attractive and with a good heart)  are pretty disappointed with men. Because they met men who just wanted to have fun.  So they decided to stay single.
I remember that there was a thread on the old glocals' website when a woman even asked where the good guys can be found.

Hello excuse my ignorance but ,  what are bitches?

Katherine, bitches are the women who everyone hate and most men run away from.  

Men would "usually" run away from women who are bitchy, meaning women who are too high maintenance, too high on themselves due to those 2 degrees....well, basically too self-centered.  That, plus the bad attitude and nagging personality, as well as the constant unrealistic shifting expectations.  But that can go both ways.  The reality is that if you want to find a guy, you just have to be yourself.  Don't go out boasting about all your education and carreer accomplishments, and all that other stuff which you believe increases your value as a person.  I mean, it does count, but is not the only thing that defines you.  Your value will be determined based on your personality, looks, sense of humor, and on how well you accept your own femininity.  We don't want another guy in our life, or someone that reminds us of work.  We want someone who is different from us, and has that feminine touch that drives us crazy....and knows how to cook.  

Women who try to act like men because for some reason they believe they are not well appreciated, are just insecure about themselves.   

Amazing how someone can creat a threat/post that is infact marketing there Workshop, and that is not normally allowed here.

but the quote, I like to commnet on by CarolineRB: no, I am not a coach. I am the inspiration source for women to transform their life :) I give them  tools to do that, and accompany them in the journey.

So not a coach, that is so now so Generic, everyone can be a coach if people just are desperate for help, and suckers. Inspiration, what are you some preacher? I dont think so, and you dont have answers but confuse people more with Rubbish. Trying to be clever and smart to understand relationships cuts out the real need in relationships, Listen Listen Listen. Not Thinking , over Thinking, etc.

Adn Journey for Success, what is success? Marrying a man????? Or Healthly relationship wtih someone you wnat to spend time with. and not with someone bitching all the time, and that is for both men and women.

I dont have answers and dont think anyone else does, so just be real and good luck. No need for wasting money but just use your natural intuition and find people with similiar interest, it makes relationships last. Not Smart people, not both successful carreers, not Money. But good sex, good friendship, and interests.

My idea of why more swiss men are married, is they find women from other countries who are more friendly and not so Career/Money. But they like the smart, funny, open minded, common sence.

And im sure Im going ot get all swiss women to disagree, but why are some many divorced and alone/lonely. They dont have want Swiss men want. And infact also same story with expat men. finally I dont think even if Swiss women might complain about my comments, that the really dont care eitherway, because they already feel they got the answers, but they are still alone and lonely. Total Denial, hahaahhaahaha

Hi, just in case: the thread is from 2009

hahaa... very interesting insights.  In my community where I come from, the men who speak loudest about women, in social groups, are also known to be most submissive and silent to their spouses.  Lying low like envelopes!!

And what does "feminine" mean here - it is a male-construct,when you actually examine it.Can't women be allowed to be womanly  ie valued for their natural qualities as "women"(not at all the same of the idea "feminine"

Bitches are woman who sleep with every man but me

Exactly. Women in Switzerland are now ugly married losers.

Hello Free,

This sounds to me like the story of the bitter grapes??

Whats the masculine form of "bitches" I wonder??

There are few kind of bitches sloppy bitch, copper bitch anybody got any more?

There are few kind of bitches (sloppy bitch, copper bitch) I don't know what are they talking about...

Ganna,

Well said and told by real life experiences :)

And free advice without going to a Workshop.

what is "Succesful" ? :S 

"Just remember. Somebody somewhere is sick and tired of her shit"

I come from London originally and am amazed at some of the outdated concepts on this thread. First of all, women and men should look at each other as people first rather than relying on old stereotypes. I am always amazed when i see ordinary looking or downright ugly men in Geneva with goodlooking wives or girlfriends! First reaction used to be that he must be loaded. However I have come to the conclusion that some women are so afraid of being lonely or just have low self esteem so through desperation they settle. Having said that, it does sometimes happen that some women don't care about looks and are just attracted to a person who is kind and loving. As i have gotten older, I realise that what makes a man or woman confident to the opposite sex is self confidence and humour and being able to communicate.

'Who know how to cook'.

Luckily we have a cantine at work.

You are amazed at some of the outdated concepts on this thread but you are not afraid to believe that if an ordinary looking or downright ugly men in Geneva is with a good looking girl it's because she is afraid of being lonely??? Hahaha... talking about silly stereotypes! :-)

 They say beauty is in the eyes of the beholder,a woman can get all the qualifications on earth,money,power name it but no man why? one of the reasons is this a man can not be working 100% and the wife 100% depending on the job,same time be a wife or a mother,take care of the man and the kids,run the home and the office,have time for her husband and the children is a big one. so what happens at the end of the day is a full time nanny running the home,taking care of her,the man and the kids.
  A working class woman rich,beautiful etc will not have time to run a home coz her job is so demanding,busy busy busy with work suddenly the relationship becomes boring then it hits the rock(divorce). You can't control a matured and hard working career woman coz she knows what she wants for her self,generally men are like babies you need to handle them with care even if you are the richest woman on earth your character,humbleness,meekness will be the beauty that will be glowing in her not the physical attraction because every man wants to always be the man at home no matter how educated,rich or beautiful the woman is,he wants his RESPECT AS THE HEAD OF THE HOME.

anna K : /QUOTE/ generally men are like babies you need to handle them with care  (...) because every man wants to always be the man at home no matter how educated,rich or beautiful the woman is,he wants his RESPECT AS THE HEAD OF THE HOME. /UNQUOTE/

I am growing tired of that kind of canned thinking! The question underlying such platitudes is: why would a woman allure only those retards? Did it ever occur to you that, if birds of a feather flock together, it may well be because she has a attitude problem towards life or towards the other gender?

Attitude problem toward life or towards the other gender could be a problem yes am not disputing that but men of these days find it difficult to go into commitment,from one relationship to the other the society have changed.can two walk together unless they agree? 70% of men will say that ladies of today are higher than them and can't be controlled so is difficult for them to find a real woman,what does that mean?

I dont know how to delete the thanking button but I lingered a little long reading your comment in total disbelief.

Is a woman supposed to be an object, slave, the pleaser....in a relationship?  I am in utter SHOCK to read this!!!!!

you dont have to this is what most men say that they have no say anymore so they avoid the troubles of commitment.could be an excuse is totally nonsense to me anyway

Anna: "men of these days" "the society have changed" "70% of men" "ladies of today" "real woman"... meaningless generalizations. I could say the same about women (but I don't). But if this is how you perceive the men you see, I strongly suggest that you review your dating standards

When a woman meet only one kind of individuals - the mister wrong as I gather from your simple-minded discourse on my gender - it's either because her social circle is hopelessly homogeneous or because she only stumbles upon one single type of individuals. And if she only stumbles upon one single type of individuals, why is that? What kind of message does she sends them? A relationship builds up on the basis of a complex interaction between signals emitted by one party and the response of the other. And the problem is very often that the signal is just inadequate or vague, thereby not triggering the right response or not reaching the right men.

Katherine I: What post are you referring to?

It goes the other way round too!

Women run away saying the guy is too nice!

Richdog, chivalry is much overrated and I certainly would not take me as an example. But yes, I do find that common places such as men are immature and cannot commit themselves to a relationship and (wonder) woman are to be pitied boring and short sighted. 4 billion men out there and all only Peter Pans? Come on! Not finding Mr/s right does not mean s/he does not exist. It simply means that one may not be looking at the right place or be with the right crowd.

I think the dating scene around here is slightly different than other areas where there is less expats. The majority of expats are highly educated and make an above average salary, both men and women.

I believe this has a bigger impact on women than men. As women here themselves are highly educated and make a good salary, they do not need this from a man when choosing a partner as they can take care of themselves. They find their career very important, which leaves less time and space for having a partner to also have childeren with. It wouldn't be a surprise, that in the average expat community you find more single, motherless women at a (much)higher age then in "normal" society. The standard of choosing a partner for women is different. They will find his personality more important than his paycheck or his education. He must be someone she can converse with, have a sense of humor and someone she can bring to a company dinner.

Regarding men, I don't think they have changed all that much, being here or anywhere else. Far less men than women find education important, but mainly her looks and possibly if she would be the right woman to have childeren with. Men have always been the one working and care less about, if a women has a career, a normal day job or maybe just sit at home taking care of the house.

Then there is also the flock in the mix that just wants to get a cut from a man's paycheck in this region, by means of getting pregnant on whatever she can lay her hands on. So before juding men for not adjusting to the situation at hand, cut us a bit of slack. ;)

If you haven't read it yet, an interesting article that has been popping up here and there since last year

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/why-women-lose-the-dating-game-20120421-1xdn0.html

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/why-women-lose-the-dating-game-20120421-1xdn0.html

hi Carolina:  saw a piece in a newspaper recently that showed that after 40 the chances of a man marrying drop considerably, (Google it) and people of my mothers generation would view men of 40 plus who have never married to be 'suspect' - while 'spinster' women (how I hate that word!) are much happier than their unmarried male countrerparts. I think one of the reasons is that women refuse to 'settle' these days, they no longer rely on men for money or for financial support so women have raised the bar on their expectations. Certainly I would rather be on my own than settle for a man who does not measure up. men tend to marry 'down' while women tend to marry up. A trend now is for women of 30-45 to have relationships with younger men (25-35) as they do not have so much baggage and treat women so much better than the older men. This is a very interesting thread, if you have time to read all of the

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/why-do-women-in-their-30s-not-want-to-date-men-in-their-40s/

Cheers, Zoe. x

posts.

nowadays all is about individual fulfilment and ego, ego, ego. "family" is outdated – because family means "US". but individual fulfilment today has nothing to do with that – its many times "me, myself and i". More and more men don't want to take over responsibility for anybody expect for themselves. Women more and more tend to be their own masters and don't want to create too tight bonds and resposibilities that could stand in their way of "individualization" – such as family. 

i think first we have to reform "marriage". how could a modern marriage nowadays look like? so that men don't run away from it and women dont feel themselvs trapped inside of it. or is it enough to just take off the pink glasses and accept that marriage "may" come to an end? so its no more threatening and pressuring to have to last till the "end of time".

correct me, if i'm wrong, sometimes i start thinking our society commits some kind of suicide CREATING "offspring endangering" circumstances, especially in our part of the world. i'm shure in other countries/parts of the world it's different. there seems to be some kind of shifting, maybe its a natural shifting. or am i old fashioned and a typical black-white-thinker? :) 

Enough said !! 

Snow White has better advice than you people.  sheesh. 

Aww come on now.  Who codes this site?

here.

try this 

or this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=N8xCgC3w1zs&feature=endscreen

"If you are lonely when you are alone, you are in bad company." ~ Jean-Paul Sartre

Totally agree Zoe, I have been with a younger man for over a year now and he treats me really well. I am totally spoilt. showers me with compliments, is very attentive and more importantly always makes me laugh. I have been out with older men and some of them are so afraid of committing themselves, whilst others have been scarred by divorce. Of course there are also some lovely older men out there but personally being with a younger man without any baggage is so much simpler.

I used to be only interested in looks when I was younger but now I prefer being with a guy who may not necessarily be George Clooney but at least he knows how to laugh, enjoy himself and is articulate and respects his partner. These are long lasting qualities and really make a relationship work. The perfect man does not exist and if he did, I certainly would not be interested. Vive la difference!!!

Wow. Just wow. Where to start... the levels of hyprocrisy and double standards... 
Bear with me, some outrageous posts need highlighting for their embarrassing nature. 
Maria_ - "If a woman is educated, good looking and a nice person then the guy who finds such a woman and runs away is not a good guy. He is an idiot.

Also good guys dont run away. Selfish, immature, self-centered guys do" 

Just becuase someone is educated, good looking and a nice person, doesnt mean they are the one for you. It's not always your decision. To call names for this shows how you think about the dynamics at work here. Must be nice to live in a black and white world.
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Breshna - "Dont you sound a bit racist??? What is this nationality thing?? I am married to an Italian, our nationalities and religions are very different, in total between the two of us we speak 12 languages, but we are happy with each other and we have two wonderful kids."

Read up on the definition of racism before throwing words like that around. He never said that one race was superior, just that it didnt mesh well. Of course nationality can be a factor! People are brought up with completely different cultures which sometimes aren't going to mix. I think it's great for you that your relationship is the poster child cross-cultural multi-national multilingual love, but love is not clean cut and rarely just works out.
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buzzcock - "And what does "feminine" mean here - it is a male-construct,when you actually examine it."

The English word feminine is derived from the Latin femina meaning "woman" or "female," Let's not get into a straw feminism debate here. Let's remember who buys fashion magazines and thinks they need to be this or that, it's your own personal choice to let others control your decisions in life.
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delseta9_ -  "I come from London originally and am amazed at some of the outdated concepts on this thread..". (2 sentences later) "I am always amazed when i see ordinary looking or downright ugly men in Geneva with goodlooking wives or girlfriends! First reaction used to be that he must be loaded. However I have come to the conclusion that some women are so afraid of being lonely or just have low self esteem so through desperation they settle."
Also, "men tend to marry 'down' while women tend to marry up. A trend now is for women of 30-45 to have relationships with younger men (25-35) as they do not have so much baggage and treat women so much better than the older men."

That is some impressive work there. Say one thing, then go ahead and make a pretty horrid remark in the same paragraph. Great that you are being honest, but with the angle of the view going with this, you just sound...well shallow and arrogant in one stride. You speak with such certainty about men and yet not consider that maybe its not 100% one sided. The lonely/biological clock noises coming from this city are unreal. Especially from women who realise... "wait...you mean I won't be this pretty forever?!"
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2 pictures were put up, the first in jest about "guys who never marry having the 'best' life ever".  Then even things out and be fair, the female version was put up. The male one, which was "more beer, CHASING women, driving cars etc", and the female one was "shopping and being able to HAVE SEX with whomever she pleased." No comment
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anna k - generally men are like babies you need to handle them with care even if you are the richest woman on earth your character,humbleness,meekness will be the beauty that will be glowing in her not the physical attraction because every man wants to always be the man at home no matter how educated,rich or beautiful the woman is,he wants his RESPECT AS THE HEAD OF THE HOME.

What a shameful level of misandry. You have either been brought up poorly, had bad luck with guys, or think you are soo high and mighty that this can even be something you'd post. I cook better than almost all the women I know, I paint, I can sew, I build things, I play sports, I live by myself in Geneva and miraculously the places hasnt burnt down. I have also had girlfriends with whom I am still on very good terms (would you be on such good terms with the aforementioned misogynistic baby?) With this kind of chip on your shoulder, you must be a delight.
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 Delseta9_ -  I am totally spoilt. showers me with compliments, is very attentive and more importantly always makes me laugh. I have been out with older men and some of them are so afraid of committing themselves, whilst others have been scarred by divorce.

This is where I find a big part of the problem is. Double standards and unrealistic expectations.

We all want someone who is kind, loving, thoughtful, sincere, trustworthy and that can keep your attention over the years (intellect comes in different shapes and forms). But for some reason it is acceptable for women to expect a very high level of attention and praise and being 'spoilt' but are not expected to do the same. Valentines day - majoritively expectation is that guys will show their affection and do something 'wow' for their partners, chivalry is fine when it benefits the woman in question. Feminists can sometimes go nuts at the idea of men doing things for them. Think about how flowers and chocolates and all those things are supposed to be done by the guy. He has to be spontaneous, thoughtful and really spoil the girl. Where is the balance? 

The one that captures the spirit of so many today  is the Marilyn Monroe quote - "I’m selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can’t handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best."

She was married 3 times, with no relationship lasting more than five years.
Invented, relished in, and profited from the “dumb blonde” image.
Desperate for cash, agreed to be photographed nude which the photos became the first centerfold for Playboy and ultimately catapulted her career.
Committed suicide at the age of 36 from an overdose of barbiturates.

And 99% of women do not look like or have the charisma that Marilyn Monroe had. 

Sorry but I'm sick of the generalised male bashing these days.  Grow up, take responsibility for your actions and realise that sometimes, things will go horribly wrong and no one is to blame. I stayed in a international student residence in Oxford, UK for 6 months, in that time 95% of the young women (aged 21-32) staying there cheated on their boyfriends back in their home country. So let's not assume it's all men in the wrong...

I don't want to marry any of you (mostly because I dont know any of you) but not because I'm 'scared of marriage or commitment'. Try being happy by yourself and then spending the adequate time to find the right person. Unsurprisingly he is unlikely to be the guy/girl you slept with from that club, whose name you barely remember.

I'm not by any stretch perfect, but at least I realise my own flaws instead of slamming the easy target in the corner.

(apologies for the length)

I still like cake. 

I agree Thomas ... in many cases different cultures can cause problems ... I also didn't think it's a racist statement it's a fact. But you know dating outside your own culture can be very exciting and fun :) .... I think if you meet the right woman you won't care if she is dutch, chinese or german ;)

Dante - beauty is in the eye of the beholder :)  ..

I agree with you maybe not on the beauty part because I think everyone is beautiful in their own way. But I am tired of women who feel they are entitled to have all guys falling in love with them.

I think it's funny that women and men always blame the other sex for being still single or having bad relationships. To me it's funny that they don't realize the real problem - the real problem is them .... if someone has the same problem over and over again (not finding the right guy or having bad relationships and the guy leaving them) I think it's almost insane to look for an outside source (in their cases the guys) for your problem. But that's exactly what most women (and men) do when it comes to relationships. Most people start looking for what's wrong with the other person instead of looking into themselves to see what's wrong with them.

So instead of blaming the "idiot guys who like bitches" I think it's time for women to take a good honest look at themselves - and then they need to stop feeling so entitled for someone to love them. It's not an entitlement it's a gift if someone loves you and you should always tread it as such.

What an interesting discussion. I am single myself but I love Switzerland and I love the dating scene here. I think it's super interesting because you have so many different cultures and experiences here that it makes it quite exciting. As I stated before I think women need to stop feeling entitled to be loved.

I think all those comments about bitches and idiots are just stupid. I think everyone just has a hard time with rejection. I think we have to learn to be honest with ourselves and look at ourselves what we actually bring to the table for a relationship and then we also need to learn to accept the fact that not everyone falls in love with us!!  :) 

Life is so beautiful and love is the greatest gift of all!  :)

Wow ... dante, not sure if your being deliberately provocative, or that you really beleive what you wrote. 

Sub par people???? WTF who deserves to be called sub par ??  All most people want is a loving relationship with a partner they can trust and love. There is a perfect person for everyone. Perfect in the sense they fit you like hand in glove. 

How can you speak for all women when you say women never love men... maybe thats just your experience.. and if you think love is just an emotional rationalisation post sex, then im afraid youve had some tough experiences.

Yes people do tend to decieve themselves a little when looking for the right partner, and thats because we are conditioned by the media, and our upbringing to believe a certain kind of perfection. 

You have to look inside to find true beauty, and its in everyone of us, waiting to be found by the right person, who sees it more clearly than anyone else. 

Hmm i fail to see what having balls has to do with this ... and if you actually knew me, youd know i have bigger balls than most, and can certainly see through your BS.

Phewww..... I am impressed, do you work for the UN by any chance :P (kidding). OK sorry I called the dutch guy racist, I didnt use the right word probably. I just didnt like the way he had put pressure on the word DUTCH ;), which would mean every woman who is Dutch is right for him, no? Which cannot be true, right?

Differences are everywhere, in every couple, a little compromise from both sides keeps the family intact, but a lot of people are selfish, there is too much focus on ME and little on WE. I see girls dumping their boyfriends/husbands because they lost their jobs, i also see men dumping their wives and kids because they fell in "love" with younger women. I can no longer define what is "love".... Its more about what I ME and MYSELF gets from a relationship and not what I give to it.

Gosh!! that was in 2009 and this thread keeps poping up. 

Shut up Norman no mates,  youre being a prick.

We blocked Dante Ontato's glocals account, due to in-appropriate behaviour. 

When we block someone, his/her posts are automatically removed as well.

Nir, glocals admin

On a more funny note, I once was on a dating site for 10 days (to try out, no picture- it's relevant here) and wrotte on my profile that  ' I DO bring down the toilet seat '  . Had 3 messages by the end on the day.

Good Nir, 
To go back to the tread I simply think that we get the people that we deserve, or at the very least that we allow ourself to reach out for them. 

I don't think that dating is hard ONLY for women and ONLY for those in Switzerland. Dating is hard for both sexes and everywhere in the developed world.

I do think that dating is much harder the older you get though. If you're in your 20s and reasonably friend, intelligent and attractive I really can't see why you have trouble meeting new people...

However, once you are out of your 20s it's a whole new ball game. First of all there are far fewer single people to choose from and second of all, people have had too many bad experiences and may become jaded, bitter, hurt etc and are too scared to try again and get hurt all over again.

People in their 30s and up tend to become more picky and cautious and yet they have fewer people to choose from?!  whereas those in their 20s tend to date anyone who comes into their life without really thinking and analysing it too much.

So overall I think dating is hard for everyone once you're out of your 20s and aren't going to university (where the vast majority of people I know met their partner) anymore.

But it's especially hard for successful women due to a few reasons (IMHO):

1. As someone else mentioned, men tend to date 'down' and women tend to date 'up'. Men seem to want someone who is really attractive but for other qualities they can be equal or lesser to them.

Why is it that every married Swiss man I have met in Geneva is married to a girl who is 1) at least 10 years younger than him and 2) from a) eastern europe b) south america or c) south-east asia. 

I'm sure those that married Swiss or Western/Northern European girls exist but I have never met one.

It's not a Swiss thing either. Men from Western developed countries all over seem to often go for girls from less developed or even impoverished countries. Why is that? Do they want someone to take care? Someone to look up to them? Someone who won't talk back? who is submissive? meek and mild?? It seems they can't handle a women who is an equal (ie around the same age, with similar educational background and career/salary level).

Even putting the cultural preference aside men always seem to prefer women younger than them (unless they met in their 20s) whereas women mostly seem to prefer men in the same age group as them and as someone else mentioned, as they get older and more successful they don't even mind dating men younger than them as they don't need a sugar daddy figure or anyone to take care of them... but often younger guys just want 'fun' and don't take older women seriously. The older the men get the younger the women they seem to want (ie the age gap widens).

So what's a girl to do? Quit her job and become unemployed or become a full-time student living on welfare? Dumb herself down in every way except her looks?

because IMHO at the end of the day, men always seem to want someone 'lesser' than them.. they need to feel in control, need to have the power, need the woman to look up to them (and not the other way around) etc.

And so in Geneva and pretty much every wealthy industrialised westernised city, successful women have trouble finding a partner. 

Afterall, if we are attrative and successful we want to find someone equal to or greater than that (as well as being loving, caring, supportive, unselfish, etc) and there usually aren't many of those men left in our age group who are single.  And more often than not, many are separated/divorced with kids which presents a whole lot of other problems....  Are we too picky? Should we just put up with having a guy who is 10-20 years older than we are, short, bald, fat and unsuccessful? Besides, if someone is not married by the time they are 40 surely there is something wrong with them?

And if internet dating is anything to go by (not saying that is the only way to meet people but just one small avenue) most men only seem to want 'fun' and don't want anything serious anyway.

Linda,

I don't agree - maybe I have different experience than you do. I have mostly guy friends and they are having a hard time finding a woman. It's easy for them to find a younger girl who is in her 20's to have fun with but to find someoen to have a relationship with is not easy. I don't think all men are the same either. I have a lot of very succesful guy friends, very good looking absolutley charming who  don't fall into they category of men who date "down" as you stated.

Someone else said earlier that "We get the people we deserve" - I think that's simply the truth - we can't attract someone truly awesome - open minded, loving, succesful, good looking, giving, etc. if we are not ready for it and if we are not equally awesome :) ... I think men are awesome and I they are not scared to date a succeful woman.

To be honest I think we all make it too complicated and we want things to happen when we want them instead of just leaning back and letting life happen. Love will come when you are ready!!!

"I'm sure those that married Swiss or Western/Northern European girls exist but I have never met one"

So you think Swiss/N european women are beautiful, successful and lonely because men are marrying dumb, submissive, ignorant, "lesser" than them, young women from the sections of the world you mentioned above???

If you sit down and think that alone tells you why women who think like you should be lonely. Getting into relationship with a woman having such a mentality is like going to a war zone and I guess no man would like to be in war all his life. Even in Turkey we have women who think like you, they think Turkish men who marry blondes are marrying them because they are dumb idiots and can provide only  WILD SEX. Of course they are wrong and so are you! 

Maybe men want younger women, but younger women don't always want them. As for men marrying women from 3rd world countries, we assume that these marriages are sucessful, but a very good freind of mine who was in his late 40's and had never been married  - his heart had been broken and he never really got it together again - was persuaded to go out with a woman who was from one of these countries, they married and I saw them at a wedding with their new son, he looked so happy. I was so happy for him. I recently I learnt that she had run off with another man , and she had taken the boy with her. The reason: money. He had a bigger house and was very well off. He was 64. Relationships based on money will never work. Relationships are hard enough, but to be based on money...Also take a look at any dating website, the men vastly outnumber women, and the women often put the ages of the men they want to date as around 7 years younger and 7 years older, (approx) but the men just want younger, and then they wonder why they dont get replies. Maybe some men have a good life up until 40 - dating and dumping and having  a good time with the ladies, then they hit 40 and realise that they have no kids, and they realise they should hurry up, they have to date women much younger as they need to make sure they can have children, after 35 its getting a bit risky. But not many women of 25-34 are really ready to settle down, and even if they were, most sucessful women earning their own money do not really want a 40 plus year old man, who has maybe been a commitment phobe all his dating life.

Ecactly - most people who are bitter and don't believe in love anymore - or believe that all guys are pigs just dating "lesser" women are usually bitter because they had bad experiences. I am sure we all had experiences we wish we didn't have to make :) ... but I don't think it's fair to judge everyone and say that all men are equal just because of some bad experiences!

i really think that lot of women in geneva(like swiss women) have problems. they are not fun, not friendly. and they are way too scared to be 'under a man'- i mean there are lot of women with balls..and who wants to date a woman(that is suppossed to be gentle,fragile flower) who have balls?! they always want to fight about women rights and can not admit they are weaker or they don't know something..they don't let the men to be a real men. and those masculin suits they wear..i mean- lot of women have lost their feminin side. but THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!! i like that my man opens a door for me,or he pays my part in a resto.i think it is normal. the man has to spoil the woman,but the woman has to let him do it.

i am married to a swiss guy and none of his friends are dating swiss women. they all are from somewhere else...weird.. 

Carolina your question already contains a reply,

loneliness is a payment for success. There is a movie `Social network` it gives a comprehensive explanaition ``climbing up your road to success, remember its very cold on the top and you will feel lonely`` 

every woman instinctly is looking for a man with whom she feels safe about future, successful woman by definition has higher requirements and expectation, and they will need to search in a very narrow segment of wealthy and successful men.

Usually most of such men are already married and have families. To become a wife of general one should get married with a soldier.

Happy 8th of March ladies,

no need in weapons, be yourselves, respect yourselves and somebody will fall in love with you. 

Thank you Aleks - Amen to that!!!!

Of course there are always exceptions, but I feel that we tend to get along better with those who are 'similar' to us being age range, cultural background, similar educational level etc... But for some reason men are obsessed with having a young, pretty, 'hot' girl who really has nothing in common with them, but they just want 'arm candy'.

Eva - you are from Latvia and you are married to a Swiss man? You just proved my point above ;) maybe you are not 10 years+ younger but you are from Eastern Europe.

I'm not Swiss nor am I only looking to date Swiss man (as Jeannette said earlier, it's cool and fun to date so many different nationalities in Geneva).

Just to clarify, I am not bitter at all. I am very open-minded and I don't let rejection bother me (like so many people). I would go out on a date with someone who wasn't my 'type' just to see if anything develops...

I know this wasn't aimed at me but I also don't think it's because I'm not feminine enough. I have long hair, I wear skirts and dresses and make-up,. with my ex I let him drive (and didn't make him feel like crap when he got us lost :D ), I let him decide and plan and make a lot of choices even though we compromised on a lot of things too... I don't think that you can say that all single women are single because they are too 'masculine'. If anything, I see it's the 20 somethings that feel the need to be in control and boss their man around but as we get older we are more secure in who we are and feel less need to boss and control our partner (just my feelings comparing myself now in my mid-30s to when I was in my early-mid-20s and also to my girlfriends in that age group). I love that men can be chilvalrous and I let them.

In the end I think there are too many factors at play why the situation is like this... more often than not, you are just not that person's 'type' or there is no 'chemistry' (whatever that is).

I think also if you ask what people want in a partner they can't even accurately define it.. it's just based on a 'feeling' most of the time.. something that just develops.. some feeling, some chemistry, some attraction...  It's a mystery. If it were easy people wouldn't be multi-millionaires out of making dating websites and services.

you might want to delete my post number 94 Nir... since it no longer applies and may cause some confusion/offence....

...or not... as the case may be :-)

but it is not my fault my parents and the god made me cute,intelligent  and funny. and my husband has been dating swiss girls before. but he said that some of them are really psycho. of course you find psychos everywhere...
and for me it is just a compliment if a guy who has tried both has chosen me. it is cool. but i think that lot of swiss guys are very immature. i mean-a guy in latvia at age 26 is a dad usually already. but here still at age 30 they don't know exactly what they want and what they need. and some of them still live with their parents...
in general i don't like swiss guys..i think they are more into carrier than having a family..and then at certain age they realize they are alone..-no women to share their success ,no kids to raise and etc...and it is the main problem in all the central europe i think- work,good money is all they want. i am so proud to be a latvian. it is the reason why i am as i am. and i proud person and would always follow love rather than money..women in geneva don't want to make sacrifice..-they are scared what will happen if the guy leaves her and she has no education,no job and 3 kids..for me it doesn't seem such a big thing. you can not plan your life. ok,you can plan,but the life usually makes her own corrections in your plans. just follow your heart and be with the guy you want. it is simple. lot of people make it complicated..

To become a wife of general one should get married with a soldier.

Yes, we all know the story of Sarkozi - Bruni.

As soon as the soldier gets to the top, next wife, please!

It's not the point. It was just an example. I know a lot of real women who were "replaced" shortly after their husbands got a new office...

"Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" (the first one published in 1992) by John Gray

(Some time/years ago) I asked around people (just some 20 persons or so, though) who read it, "Did you like the book / agree what is written?"

- The answer from "most" (not everyone) of those "married" or in a serious relationship or those divorced: "YES" or rather positive.

- The answer from "most" (not everyone) of single people or not in a sirious relahtionship (currently or never) or those divorced: "NO" or rather negative.

I just thougt, interesting to hear those answers...

LOVE to all!

This isn't a thread based upon or revealing any facts. There are opinions, personal experiences and anecdotes.

It is interesting to consider that the person starting this thread was doing so -- at least in part -- as a business promotion. There are other events posted on how to meet 'girls' and so on. 

There are many reasons why people are happy and unhappy in and out of relationships, heterosexual or otherwise. 

There are also lots and lots of myths about marriage and university educated women. When exploring them, it's probably better not to seek information from the popular press.

Here's are some highlights of a study, granted a US-based one, that explores and juxtaposes them with facts  :http://www.contemporaryfamilies.org/marriage-partnership-divorce/marriagemyths.html

"Here's the source of much confusion in news reports: At age 40, college-educated white women are MORE likely to be married than any other group of women. That's because the divorce rates of college-educated women have dropped so much that those who do marry are far more likely to still be married at age 40 than their less-educated counterparts."

"What about never-married educated women who hope to marry, but want to wait until they have established themselves professionally or are still holding out for "Mister Right"? Not only has the average age of first marriage been rising, but so has the range of ages at which women marry for the first time. It used to be that a woman who was unmarried at age 35 or 40 was unlikely to ever marry at all. Today, 15 percent of all women who are unmarried at age 40 do marry in the next 10 years, and that rises to 20 percent for college-educated women. College-educated women have a much greater likelihood of marrying at an older age than women of any other educational level.

" Finally, college-educated women are more likely than any other group of women to report themselves happy in their marriage, whatever the level of their family income, and they are much less likely to think that "financial security is the main benefit of marriage."

Well, me I got married being in university and everything finished 2 years later. After this experience (which surely started with a lot of love and all other things) I will never get married and I am really convinced that this is not what a person schould dream about.

But I think in case if u really need it, u can call and check also ur school or univeristy mates, sometimes it works out well. They know u, u know them. Commom youth or childhood. I have some stories like this.

I remembered a very good quote...

"Family replaces everything. That's why before getting married, think about what u want more - family or everything?"

I don't think men like bitches, I have yet to meet a man who likes the idea of being stuck for the rest of his life with a masculine nagging bitch, whose idea of being a woman is nagging all day and talking about the great career she has!

 The only men attracted to masculinity happen to be gay (I should know... I am gay!!)..... straight men are attracted to feminity and grace..... 

 The whole I am an alpha female, with a great career, and you better cater to my demands because I am a modern western woman with a lot to give and don't call me honey because I am a feminist and I am special and unique blah blah blah!!! (BECOMES EXTREMELY TIRESOME)  it's nothing but insecurity!!! and if a woman can't change that and get over herself, then she better get ready to be alone for the rest of her life!!!

To be in a relationship demands effort, sacrifice, giving up a lot of what you have in order to be able to build something together..... then children come into the picture and it changes everything, then is not even about you anymore, it's about your children!!! 

BIG PROBLEM WITH WESTERNERS IS THAT THEY'RE EXTREMELY SELF-ABSORBED AND THINK THE WORLD ROTATES AROUND THEM.... rude awakening comes after the age of 30 when reality comes knocking on the door and suddenly special me is not as unique or special as once thought and then emotional crisis sets in..... then come the "experts" like the lady who created this topic selling their workshops to people in "crisis"

Andy o ..............Inspiring stuff...  You realise you just took a 'discriminatory dump' on a couple of billion people?

Plus I'm fairly sure there was a majoritive sigh of relief from women upon finishing your delightful tirade and then realising you are not on the market so to speak. 

Oh and feel free to keep being dropping some grade A bigotry for us. It must be an interest feeling being gay and a bigot.

Kudos buddy, Kudos 

Oh god no...another boring contemporay gender discussion, just be yourselves and stop seeing wrong or right between the sexes...

I would hug and kiss you right now if I could!! All you said is right on the spot and so true!! :) Thank you!!!

So-called straight men are attracted to all kinds of people, especially behind closed doors. That is evident from any of the myriad internet dating sites. That is the reality. 

Sometimes calling a woman a 'bitch' is just a way of demeaning the fact that she can stand up for herself and earn her own money. If a woman doesn't have children, is she a selfish 'bitch'? 

And it is not simply western women who identify themselves as feminists. There are women all around the world who are fighting against people who want to decide what femininity means for them. 

In addition, what exactly is 'masculinity'? I have a friend who is extremely masculine and he sews and can tango and change diapers. Does this make him feminine? No. And even if it did, what is the problem? Many people have aspects of both genders and many of these so-called masculine and feminine  behaviors are often culturally defined.

Stereotypes are fine if they work for you. Just don't try to force them on us 'bitches' who live in the real world.

Some men are simply and inherantly much more neandethalesque than women realise and we in general are very simply pleased.

Society and peer pressure frankly over-complicates relationships these days....

Happiness begins at home between two people, and is reinforced by mutul trust, understanding, alot of love (and lovin'   ) , mutual support and "alot" of give and take.

After all, none of us are perfect, even those perfect for each other have imperfections. Whether or not, and how one goes about changing those imperfections to suit the other is one thing...

"Your key might not fit the lock you initially want to open, but it doesn't mean it fits no lock, keep trying, and if nessesary change it a bit and one will open."

Its perfectly ok to have high standards for ones partner as long as one has equally high standards for oneself.

I'm a good cook, so I can allow for imperfections in a partner ;-)

"but i think that lot of swiss guys are very immature. i mean-a guy in latvia at age 26 is a dad usually already. but here still at age 30 they don't know exactly what they want and what they need. and some of them still live with their parents..."

Sorry I'm getting off the topic a bit but I had to comment on this...

I don't think having or not having kids at a certain age has anything to do with maturity. You could have a kid at 18.. does that automatically make you 'mature'? 

I think the having kids and having kids at a younger age is mainly a cultural and/or religious thing. In certain cultures or religions it's simply accepted that it's something you do whereas in other cultures (eg Swiss) it's perfectly acceptable not to get married or not have kids.

I am not religious but come from a culture where it's accepted that everyone gets married and has kids.. somehow I have 'defied' this but not by my own choice.. it's just something that's happened.

I don't think getting married and having kids is something that you have a lot of control over.. it's not like buying a car.. you have the money and just go and buy it. There are so many variables and just because it hasn't happened to someone (male or female) by the age of 26 (as you mentioned) does not mean they are immature or a loser.

Charlie: I thanked your post, but only cos of the Wonderbra pic.

I thanked you, too Charlie - but because you are so easy to please

no you didn't... you lie like a cheap carpet... badly... :-)))

I am indeed easy...

this is what i dont get about feminists

some complain that the term bitch is offensive while other feminists think being awful to people around them by being bitch is the best thing ever

some people forget to simply be human beings..... too busy trying to comply with social labels i guess

being a bitch to me is very negative, it implies that such female is a negative, nagging, backstabbing person..... i dont think those qualities are to be praised nor respected....

and i feel pity for any female that thinks being a bitch is positive, it shows a big deal of internal angst, bitterness and unhappiness.

about masculinity... well are traits associated with males

and i disagree again, i have yet to meet any one sane who enjoys being for extended periods of time with a difficult nagging mean vile person (that is what a bitch technically is)

if you dont have anything constructive to say, then abstain from dropping all that pc bullshit.... i am so over being politically correct

how am i a bigot? what a moron

to put an end to my participation on this topic

I think HUMANS IN GENERAL should abstain from labels....  and start being real to who they are.....

once again I despise horrible people and a bitch to me is a horrible person.... 

some of the most inspiring, amazing women Ive met have never been awful nor concerned with complying with modern labels, nor obsessed with trying to prove a point in front of any one.....  and when I look at them they have been amazing mothers, friends, lovers, great career people and overall very decent human beings (that is the people to praise and imitate)... not some awful woman being constantly horrible to everyone around her just because she's a strong woman or so she claims and she has a point to prove.

The same applies to men as well...

personal rule I have.... abstain from stupid social labels by being more in touch with who I really am.... it has made me a lot happier not having to live my life trying to comply with anything.... just living by what I believe is right and trying to be a decent person to everyone who deserve it....

No, technically a bitch is a female dog. 

You might feel pity for such females. They probably don't really care so much about your definition of them or whether you understand irony.

Women have been called bitches for opposing rape, for calling for the right to vote, to wear what they want, the list goes on. So, some 'embrace' the term as a way of saying we don't give a shit what you think. Just like many gays in the US and worldwide embraced the term queer and blacks use the term 'nigga.' The perjorative is taken, re-purposed and thrown back at the name-caller.

From my point of view, someone who spends so much time focussing on why some or any women should be called bitches might have some issues the women.

I think you're taking it a bit too far

no one is talking about rape or granting females the right to vote.... and those who called them bitches at the time were perhaps misoginists or brainwashed women.... that's different

I am simply keeping it real (a bitch going by the difinition they've been using in this topic) is not a respectable human being I dont care how non-pc it might sound to some.... and if a female feels it's positive being a horrible person then I feel sorry for her.

you can be anything you want without having to be an awful person....just be being a decent human being you'll get much more achieved in your life than by being a tensed up bitch!

Psichology: bitchiness is a simple self defense mechanism to deep insecurities..... the more bitch a woman is, the more vulnerable, insecure and unhappy she is.... THAT IS A FACT! But the same goes for men.... those alpha male types you see walking around are often the lamest most pathetic men you can find.

Being a bitch in a relationship is gonna get a woman anywhere, nor it's gonna make her more loved or respected, it's simply gonna make her miserable, insecure, borderline crazy, negative and eventually that man is gonna run away when he gets tired of it.

THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE HAPPINESS, RESPECT, AND BALANCE IN ONE'S LIFE IS BY BEING A DECENT HUMAN BEING.

why are some people so miserable when they seem to have it all? because they're constantly competing with others, trying to outdo every body else.... NOTHING IN THIS LIFE CAN MAKE ONE MORE MISERABLE THAN LIVING LIKE THAT!!!

and when men are miserable they turn into a-holes, and when women are miserable they turn into bitches.... eventually it becomes a vicious circle where the individual end up bitter, angry and eventually psycho....  IT'S TOO SIMPLE!!!!

how can one be free from it all? BY ACCEPTING WHO YOU REALLY ARE, ACCEPTING THAT THE WORLD CHANGES GRADUALLY REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT YOU THINK YOU CAN MAKE AND NOT TAKING LIFE TOO SERIOUS.... a big reason to stay away from stupid social labels such as "I am feminist bitch and proud of it because i have a lot to give so men better cater to my needs or they are out the Door"

HUMANITY IS NOT THAT HARD TO READ.

I think it may be more to the point not to accept anyone's definition of masculinity or femininity. 

There will always be people who don't like what one says or does or simply who you are, whether you 'label' yourself or not. Why be afraid of someone else's opinion of you?

Many on this thread have pointed out that magazines, workshops, websites, whole industries target women and men's insecurities. These proposed paying activities tell you how to meet and keep a man, how to pick up girls and so on. Some people would be better off asking a true friend's advice or perhaps a qualified therapist. 

Finally, pretending to go along with someone just because one is desperate to stay in a relationship is not only pathetic but dishonest to both people. But some would rather do that than be alone because they believe having a bad partner is worse than no partner at all. That is the case for a couple of older women friends of mine married to tyrant husbands. From the outside, these women "have it all" -- mothers, wives, keepers of beautiful homes who are screamed at on a daily basis. 

There is and has to be a middle ground and standing up for yourself in a relationship of whatever kind doesn't make one a bitch or an asshole, for that matter.

I totally agree... They spend so much time thinking if you are the perfect man to spend the rest of the life with. Perfection does not exist... And while you are thinking about if you are or not perfect, you're loosing so many chances to know other normal but wonderful people.

Look at the Encyclopedia Britannica, they have definitions for femininity and masculinity.

About staying away from social labels.... One should do it for one's sake, not for everybody else!!! (who cares what others thinks)

And if a woman or a man happen to be unhappy in their relationships, then HONESTY should come into play, not bitchiness or a-holeness....

Relations ARE NOT PERFECT, THEY WILL NEVER BE AND THERE ARE NO PERFECT PARTNERS, YOU TAKE WHAT YOU GET AND YOU WORK WITH IT.....

Of course that harsh reality goes against the modern western values, mostly brought to us all by Hollywood!!!

The modern woman ought to have:

-A carrie bradshaw like lifestyle and then at work a Miranda Priestly persona (because being an awful nasty bitch is VERY RESPECTABLE)

-Then come home, and super hot hubby with a six pack who just got back from the gym has cooked an amazing candlelight dinner where she gets to nag about work and how stressed she is, and how she needs a beauty treatment ASAP

-Then that friday night is girls night out, where hubby stays at home taking care of the dogs, while she fancies around town in her size 0 all dressed in Prada

no wonder so many are unhappy these days....(and there is research to prove it) 

people.... break free from all that garbage, stop trying to be the bitch, the alpha female/male and R-E-L-A-X..... you'll be happier and you'll attract men and female friends much more than before! and yes, no one likes to be around an A-hole or a bitch.... (regardless of what the media says to you)

modern western ideals are just as ridiculous as those American ideals from the 50's, where they had like a guidelines for the fifties housewife....

modern fifties woman:

-when hubby comes home, dont ask him stuff, he's tired

-cook a huge meal and bring hubby's slippers

-look pretty and have the house spotless, no man wants to come home to a messy house and a messy wife

-it's the same crap, just with a different message

-then go away as hubby is watching TV and relaxing, do fun stuff like sewing in your bedroom, being careful not to disturb hubby!

the correlation is obvious.....  in the 50's they were telling women how to be women and today they're still telling women how to be women!!!! BREAK FREE!!!!

Wow! You certainly seemed to  have put a lot of thought into your post Farzam!   However, you seem to take yourself a little too seriously. I love the differences between men and women, it is what makes the world go round. I think we all need to lighten up re this post and learn to laugh a bit more.

Am currently writing a book on dating in today's world, with stories from people who who found love and those who didn't. Have had some interesting feedback from Glocal members. Feel free to drop me a line privately if any of you wish to contribute your own personal dating stories i.e dating on the web, blind dates, etc. Did you hear the true story of a woman in America whose blind date turned out to be a bank robber and she ended up being charged with accessory to the robbery when all she did was to drive him to the bank to make a 'withdrawal'!!!