Think you'd need to explain what a work certificate is?

My employers wrote for me an attestation that I worked there, along with salary etc.. Before I got my permit through. Is it that??

Hi,

Thanks for Your reply. Indeed it is a certificate that the employer

Give when the employee is departing his job. Can u help?

hi, please note that a work certificate in switzerland is an obligation and every employer must write one for the employee.

it must contain the following information:

name of employee, date of birth, dates of employment, function (title), job description and any or no obligations towards the employer.

it should be said that you will want to have mentioned how well you carried out your functions, how well you got on with your colleagues, the fact that they would recommend you to another employer. write it the way you want, and they will sign it. if not, re-write it. in any event they must create this document. be aware that swiss HR people have "coded" words to make you believe something positive, when in reality it is not so nice.

I'm just curious - why do you need in English?

Epicure, you made me curious: how can "coded" words be spotted and interpreted in a work certificate?

(sorry for the off topic Celeste!)

ask any swiss HR specialist. it is a well known procedure.

Federica, I've been to a course to which ORP sent me and they gave us a list of "coded phrases" (which look quite innocent at 1st sight) and their equivalents. I don't have it with me now as I'm travelling at the moment.

Celeste, I've worked in an international company but they gave me my certificate in French anyway. At first, I didn't like it that it was in French. However, now I think that it's only the Swiss employers that request it and they do speak French for what it matters. International companies normally don't require it. That's my experience. 

Hi Stefan Thanks for Your advise. I am precisely looking for a native english mother spoken HR specialist.  Please let me know if there is one on glocals.

hi celeste,

if you read my first post on your thread you have the basics for writing your own work certificate. did you want someone to write it for you in english?

if so, send me a PM.

No prob, Thanks much for Your help anyway.

Céleste 

Hi - I have a book from the "Beobachter" about the Testimonies. Unfortunately its in German and there you can find the Codes

Title: Arbeitsrecht

ISBN 3 85569 099 5

I have others as well but they are in German. They are more or less the same code. In Basel we have GGG which can check it for you or other people as well. If your Testimony is not right, make a copy and ask them to improve it, and tell them how you want it to be improved, for they are not allowed to write something negative.

Good luck

anybody who can actually give examples of "coded"? I have recently received mine and was just wondering what if :))

Is yours in English, French, Italian, German or Rumantsch Grischun ?

english

Well I only know codes written in German, since I live in the German speaking part of Switzerland, but if you feel like it, you can pm your Testimony, then I will have a look if it needs some corrections.

Hi All,

May I ask you if somebody could help me to "de-code" the below? I have a feeling that is not correctly stating my yearly rating after having left the company for a masters program.

1.She handled her tasks in a professional manner and had good relationships with her colleagues. 

2.She fulfilled her duties to our satisfaction and leaves us, of her own accord, free from all obligations. 

3.We wish her every success in his future career. 

Thank you very very much!

That all seems very positive, but it doesn't say that you were punctual, it does not say that you left the company of your own accord, and it's often what coded words are missed that will be your problem.

For instance an HR specialist will know that if the certificate does not say that you left of your own accord, then you may have been laid-off or sacked.

Recently I refused to write a work certificate for a collegue because I was not trained to do so. I wrote a reference instead. It would be a very bad idea to write a work certificate without training, and I'm not sure that English is a good idea either!

sorry yes it did say some of those things.... cant read me;-(

Lets take one of these:

"She fulfilled her duties to our satisfaction"

Actually ok but if they said

"She always fulfilled her duties to our satisfaction"

or better "...to our complete satisfaction"

That would be better

Or if they said

"She fulfilled her duties generally to our satisfaction" that would be worse 

or even worse "She fulfilled her duties trying to satisfy us" that would be very bad.

None of these look very bad.

Hi,

For examples of commonly used codes click on the link and scroll down:

https://www.manpower.ch/en/candidates/advice/working-in-switzerland/work-certificate-an-overview/

Check your work certificate for these:-)

Has always had the ability to identify with the interests of staff = womaniser

His humour has (constantly) contributed to the office atmosphere =drinks at work, with constantly meaning alcoholic

Often people need a english work certificate when the return to their home country.

I always ask for one in english, because they dont normally provide a second one, say in a year time or later.

They are obliged to provide one by law up to 10 years after you leave

Richard,

Are they only obliged in the local working language or can be requested in german, English?

You can't force them to write it in a particular language but you can request it.

It is possible to get the work certificate translated by a public sworn translator.

This is quite interesting (in French).

http://up-epf.epfl.ch/files/content/sites/apc/files/Documents/Formules%20usuelles%20employees%20dans%20les%20certificats%20de%20travail.pdf

Quite a few coded translations and it comes from a reputable Swiss source, most of which would completely deny any such code.

Hi Anna,

If the original of this is in French:

no.2 should read entire satisfaction "notre entière satisfaction"  otherwise it is not the case.

The employee has the right to ask for an explination

Another point which you should insist on is recommendation.

For example “ we would highly recommend xxxxxx to any future employer.”

Should be noted at the end of the document. Rather than simply, xxxxx leaves the company Without any binding obligations.

Which is all too often the case.

This is good advice because I have known instances where an employer has refused to add any such comment, even though the employee has been totally satisfactory.  This can also happen when the employee is leaving to go to a job which pays more and offers better prospects.

So do try to get the “recommendation” if you can.

R.

So what about mine?

"We particularly enjoyed work with (me) because she pursued her goals with enthusiasm and permormed her work promptly and efficiently at all times.

Thanks to her experience and skills she is both adaptable to integrate with new teams. We would also like to make a special mention of the sound professional knowledge she displayed in her role as xxx.

She was an employee who was highly respected by our various business partners. This was due in no small part of her friendly and indipendent personality (MMMMM what does this mean...?), energy and attetion to detail.

We were entirely satisfied by (me) because as an employee, with the quality of her work and with her commitment to the performance of her duties. (to me this senctence make no sense....)

She is leaving us today (oh god I hope not!!!!) at her own request, free from any obligations.

Ps. this letter has been written by the recruitment agency

Mainly positive, do they also mention a positive relationship with internal collegues and superiors, in which case missing it out could be construed as negative.

The rules say that work certificates have to be positive, so it is not really what is in that matters, it is what isn't in.

They do not wish you sucess or regret that you are leaving. These are missing.

It is legally possible to ask for an explanation or request a change.

Maybe I’m thick but I don't understand what you are asking for?  An opinion on a draft letter written by a recruitment agency or an opinion of an actual reference-letter written by an employer?

Either way, in my view it is way, way over the top and far too verbose.

But perhaps others will disagree.  Let's see what they have to say.

Hi Richard, they wrote that I they would like to wish me every success in my future carreer- I've just omitted it. Thanks for your opinion!

Hi Ritchie, I wanted to have an opinion regarding the working certificate I've received from the recruitment. Maybe there were a hidden code, or dexter code =P

What's actually the difference between a working certificate like this one and a reference letter?! 

Please see your Inbox. R.

A work certificate is a an official Swiss document, that your employer is required to give to you any time you request one.Some people ask for one systematically on a yearly basis for instance. Then they have a record of good performance, and the impact of any lack of goodwill when someone leaves can be reduced.

A reference letter is a more anglophone concept and depends on good will.

You can ask the employer to change your work certificate. The best way to do this is to ask the HR department to explain why a particular word or phrase was used instead of another one.What is it to them if they change it?

I posted a link earlier with a list standard phrases in French recognised by a Swiss institution that many people on this site may be affiliated with. In some cases you can almost give marks depending on which phrase is used. In other cases, the omission of a particular word or specific formulation can mean for instance that "we do not regret that you are leaving and that is why we have not written that we do, and it would be against the rules to say something negative"... But most institutions deny this practice.You decide.