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Your advise please

Hello there,


We moved to Divonne in September and our boys (age 3 and 6) attend a local french school.  Our problem is that both still cry at drop off in the morning and afternoon.  Our eldest especially is a worry, he loved school in the UK and even enjoys his extra french lessons but really dislikes school.  I know a large part of this is because he does not yet speak french and it will take time (I had thought it over 6 months and would probably take the best part of a year).


However, my biggest concern is that at least 2-3 times a week i get messages from his teacher saying he's not trying, he's not engaging, he is not satisfactory, he is a dissappointment.  I am at my wits end and his/my best efforts are simply not enough. I am taking french lessons but obviously this is not going to be enough to help him now.  I am looking at someone to come and play in french a few times a week too, but other than his I am not sure what to do.


Has anyone had kids of this age at a french school and not spoken french themselves?  What are realistic timescales for him to settle in, in this situation?  We are of opposite opinions to the teacher and so I would like a couple of other opinions if possible.  And any other suggestions to help us all feel at home asap.


Yours a very worn down mummy


Nicky

The text you are quoting:

Hello there,


We moved to Divonne in September and our boys (age 3 and 6) attend a local french school.  Our problem is that both still cry at drop off in the morning and afternoon.  Our eldest especially is a worry, he loved school in the UK and even enjoys his extra french lessons but really dislikes school.  I know a large part of this is because he does not yet speak french and it will take time (I had thought it over 6 months and would probably take the best part of a year).


However, my biggest concern is that at least 2-3 times a week i get messages from his teacher saying he's not trying, he's not engaging, he is not satisfactory, he is a dissappointment.  I am at my wits end and his/my best efforts are simply not enough. I am taking french lessons but obviously this is not going to be enough to help him now.  I am looking at someone to come and play in french a few times a week too, but other than his I am not sure what to do.


Has anyone had kids of this age at a french school and not spoken french themselves?  What are realistic timescales for him to settle in, in this situation?  We are of opposite opinions to the teacher and so I would like a couple of other opinions if possible.  And any other suggestions to help us all feel at home asap.


Yours a very worn down mummy


Nicky


Nicky OwenJan 8, 2015 @ 12:03
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Post 1

Hi Nicky and welcome to Switzerland,


The first months are hard, expecially for the kids who didn't really have a say in the matter.


From what I experienced the hardest part for the kids is that they are not able to make friends at first because they don't know the language so they feel isolated and alone.


Something that worked for us was to initiate playdates for our child with other children from his class.  It's akward at first because of the language barrier but it helps your child develop some social ties in a more relaxed atmoshpere.
Once there are 2-3 kids in the class that he has played with outside of school, hopefully going to class in the morning will not be such a negative experience for him.


If you don't know any of the parents from your kids' classes yet, ask his teacher to connect you with the parents of the kids he/she thinks your child might be able to connect with.  Then its up to you to coordinate the playdates with the parents and make sure things go smoothly.


It's not an easy process but I've seen it work.


Good luck!!!


Oded

The text you are quoting:

Hi Nicky and welcome to Switzerland,


The first months are hard, expecially for the kids who didn't really have a say in the matter.


From what I experienced the hardest part for the kids is that they are not able to make friends at first because they don't know the language so they feel isolated and alone.


Something that worked for us was to initiate playdates for our child with other children from his class.  It's akward at first because of the language barrier but it helps your child develop some social ties in a more relaxed atmoshpere.
Once there are 2-3 kids in the class that he has played with outside of school, hopefully going to class in the morning will not be such a negative experience for him.


If you don't know any of the parents from your kids' classes yet, ask his teacher to connect you with the parents of the kids he/she thinks your child might be able to connect with.  Then its up to you to coordinate the playdates with the parents and make sure things go smoothly.


It's not an easy process but I've seen it work.


Good luck!!!


Oded


SiteAdmin Oded, Jan 8, 2015 @ 15:30
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Post 2

Dear Nicky,


Find out the favorite part of your children's day at school...maybe even the least favorite parts. Build from there. See what could help make the best even better and the worst less uncomfortable.


The play dates are wonderful ideas.


Also, whatever your child loves in general, can be "translated."


If the child loves animals, get material in the target language. Build on what is already known to be positive.


Best of luck.


Mind you, children tend to cry in general, even the ones attending schools in their mother tongue. They might be working you like a rib! (in other words, manipulating you)


I, myself, was one of those kids wishing that I was more important to my mother than the job that was paying for our existence. Find a way to have an age-appropriate discussion with the kids that allows them to understand life. They need to realize that school is not just some sort of torture, and you mean the best for them. 

The text you are quoting:

Dear Nicky,


Find out the favorite part of your children's day at school...maybe even the least favorite parts. Build from there. See what could help make the best even better and the worst less uncomfortable.


The play dates are wonderful ideas.


Also, whatever your child loves in general, can be "translated."


If the child loves animals, get material in the target language. Build on what is already known to be positive.


Best of luck.


Mind you, children tend to cry in general, even the ones attending schools in their mother tongue. They might be working you like a rib! (in other words, manipulating you)


I, myself, was one of those kids wishing that I was more important to my mother than the job that was paying for our existence. Find a way to have an age-appropriate discussion with the kids that allows them to understand life. They need to realize that school is not just some sort of torture, and you mean the best for them. 


Carrie O, Jan 9, 2015 @ 11:38
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Post 3

Dear Nicky,


I would only add to the excellent advice others have posted, regarding ways of helping your kids to learn French, that I would encourage you to talk to their teacher(s) and try to work with them. French public schools in this area are sensitive to this issue. My daughter went through some difficulties, but the teachers and teaching assistant were very receptive, especially after they saw me reach out to them, and try to coordinate. For example, they suggested games that could help in French language acquistion. They offered a support class for my daughter at lunch time several times a week which has been very helpful.


Talk to the principal if necessary, but always watching your relationship with the teachers. They tend to care about the children, and if you manage to connect with them constructively, they will be your best allies. The schools have libraries with easy to understand children books in French and your kids can check out books. It is not only the teachers who need to feel that you want to work together with them, but your kids need to see you work together with the teacher and know that you are all working together  in their best interest.


Finally, be patient. I know it is hard, as you love your kids, but they will adapt. Children are remarkably good at adapting to new situations, but they need our help, part of which involves giving them a sense that it will be allright. In the long run, this will be to their benefit.

The text you are quoting:

Dear Nicky,


I would only add to the excellent advice others have posted, regarding ways of helping your kids to learn French, that I would encourage you to talk to their teacher(s) and try to work with them. French public schools in this area are sensitive to this issue. My daughter went through some difficulties, but the teachers and teaching assistant were very receptive, especially after they saw me reach out to them, and try to coordinate. For example, they suggested games that could help in French language acquistion. They offered a support class for my daughter at lunch time several times a week which has been very helpful.


Talk to the principal if necessary, but always watching your relationship with the teachers. They tend to care about the children, and if you manage to connect with them constructively, they will be your best allies. The schools have libraries with easy to understand children books in French and your kids can check out books. It is not only the teachers who need to feel that you want to work together with them, but your kids need to see you work together with the teacher and know that you are all working together  in their best interest.


Finally, be patient. I know it is hard, as you love your kids, but they will adapt. Children are remarkably good at adapting to new situations, but they need our help, part of which involves giving them a sense that it will be allright. In the long run, this will be to their benefit.


JR M, Jan 9, 2015 @ 11:58
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Post 4

Thank you everyone,


 


It is lovely getting your support.  We will take your ideas on board and hope they help.  Thanks again!

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Thank you everyone,


 


It is lovely getting your support.  We will take your ideas on board and hope they help.  Thanks again!


Nicky Owen, Jan 9, 2015 @ 12:43
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Post 5

Maybe joining some sort of sport club for your elder. Socializing with no real need to perform in French...

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Maybe joining some sort of sport club for your elder. Socializing with no real need to perform in French...


Casuistik, Jan 9, 2015 @ 13:32
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Post 6

Rather worrying that his teacher has such a negative attitude : perhaps it might well be worth cultivating her to a small extent too?

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Rather worrying that his teacher has such a negative attitude : perhaps it might well be worth cultivating her to a small extent too?


sheila c, Jan 9, 2015 @ 13:38
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Post 7

Dear Nicky,


More ideas for you...get interested in the classwork and projects that make it home at the end of the day. Pictures, coloring assignments, whatever...


Praise your child for work well done. When work is incomplete or poor standard, hold your child accountable and ask what went wrong or prevented him/her from "engaging."


The teacher will be able to help. Your child's feedback is important, too.


Show your child what you expect. Praise the other classmates in front of your child when appropriate to give your child a sense of what type of work you like to see.


Life is as rough for kids as it is for adults. I remember a kid who could not color properly because his classmate would not relinquish the needed color of crayon. Kids have to share and learn to be respectful to others, and part of teaching involves moderating the social aspect of the classroom.


I really hope you find out what is going on and why this crying keeps up at drop off time.

The text you are quoting:

Dear Nicky,


More ideas for you...get interested in the classwork and projects that make it home at the end of the day. Pictures, coloring assignments, whatever...


Praise your child for work well done. When work is incomplete or poor standard, hold your child accountable and ask what went wrong or prevented him/her from "engaging."


The teacher will be able to help. Your child's feedback is important, too.


Show your child what you expect. Praise the other classmates in front of your child when appropriate to give your child a sense of what type of work you like to see.


Life is as rough for kids as it is for adults. I remember a kid who could not color properly because his classmate would not relinquish the needed color of crayon. Kids have to share and learn to be respectful to others, and part of teaching involves moderating the social aspect of the classroom.


I really hope you find out what is going on and why this crying keeps up at drop off time.


Carrie O, Jan 9, 2015 @ 13:39
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Post 8

Maybe joining some sort of sport club for your elder. Socializing with no real need to perform in French...


Jan 9, 15 13:32

This is a very good point. If the teammates consider the kid temporarily "useless" at communicating, at least they still may have a chance of "communicating" via sport and games.


Be it sport or any other activity not based on language, this is a nice idea and will put the kids on equal ground. I would think that friendships would then develop naturally.

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This is a very good point. If the teammates consider the kid temporarily "useless" at communicating, at least they still may have a chance of "communicating" via sport and games.


Be it sport or any other activity not based on language, this is a nice idea and will put the kids on equal ground. I would think that friendships would then develop naturally.


Carrie O, Jan 9, 2015 @ 14:17
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Post 9

My piece of advice:


work on yourself more than your problem, 


Challenges are only solved with more wisdom....

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My piece of advice:


work on yourself more than your problem, 


Challenges are only solved with more wisdom....


seif d, Jan 9, 2015 @ 14:32
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Post 10

Where's the groan button?

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Where's the groan button?


sheila c, Jan 9, 2015 @ 14:40
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Post 11

My piece of advice:

work on yourself more than your problem, 

Challenges are only solved with more wisdom....


Jan 9, 15 14:32

I am trying to interpret this accurately. I somehow get a sense of what is being said.


Seif, please let me know if I understand your point of view.


Nicky, if a child hears parents complaining about difficulty settling in and feeling at home because of language issues, the child is going to mimic the behavior being modeled. You are living abroad now and no longer "at home."


That said, I repeat, these types of classroom integration issues can even occur when kids go to schools in their own countries. And the separation anxiety thing, is another issue in itself. Think back to when you were a kid and preferred certain teachers over others.  


There are so many factors to be taken into consideration. The new teaching style could be completely different to the other teaching style that your child knew.

The text you are quoting:

I am trying to interpret this accurately. I somehow get a sense of what is being said.


Seif, please let me know if I understand your point of view.


Nicky, if a child hears parents complaining about difficulty settling in and feeling at home because of language issues, the child is going to mimic the behavior being modeled. You are living abroad now and no longer "at home."


That said, I repeat, these types of classroom integration issues can even occur when kids go to schools in their own countries. And the separation anxiety thing, is another issue in itself. Think back to when you were a kid and preferred certain teachers over others.  


There are so many factors to be taken into consideration. The new teaching style could be completely different to the other teaching style that your child knew.


Carrie O, Jan 9, 2015 @ 15:17
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Post 12



Well, I’m not a mother OR a teacher and if there was a “thumbs down” or a “unthank poster” I’ll probably be in contention for Olympic Gold.


However, to quote Einstein and elaborate on what Seif was possibly trying to say:


“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them”


You appear to be trying to solve 2 problems here:


1.   Lack of language skills because it’s a local French school


2.   An uncompassionate teacher


So (at the risk of sounding simplistic, but it worked for me when I was young) move schools.


Put him in an InternationalSchool where he’ll have the chance to learn in his own language whilst improving his French at a rate that he feels comfortable with.


So to go back to Einstein, you think the problem is the lack of French when in fact, the problem may just be – it’s the wrong school.



The text you are quoting:



Well, I’m not a mother OR a teacher and if there was a “thumbs down” or a “unthank poster” I’ll probably be in contention for Olympic Gold.


However, to quote Einstein and elaborate on what Seif was possibly trying to say:


“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them”


You appear to be trying to solve 2 problems here:


1.   Lack of language skills because it’s a local French school


2.   An uncompassionate teacher


So (at the risk of sounding simplistic, but it worked for me when I was young) move schools.


Put him in an InternationalSchool where he’ll have the chance to learn in his own language whilst improving his French at a rate that he feels comfortable with.


So to go back to Einstein, you think the problem is the lack of French when in fact, the problem may just be – it’s the wrong school.




Carolyn C, Jan 10, 2015 @ 13:25
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Post 13

Well, I’m not a mother OR a teacher and if there was a “thumbs down” or a “unthank poster” I’ll probably be in contention for Olympic Gold.

However, to quote Einstein and elaborate on what Seif was possibly trying to say:

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them”

You appear to be trying to solve 2 problems here:

1.   Lack of language skills because it’s a local French school

2.   An uncompassionate teacher

So (at the risk of sounding simplistic, but it worked for me when I was young) move schools.

Put him in an InternationalSchool where he’ll have the chance to learn in his own language whilst improving his French at a rate that he feels comfortable with.

So to go back to Einstein, you think the problem is the lack of French when in fact, the problem may just be – it’s the wrong school.


Jan 10, 15 13:25

The learning style of "baptism by fire" is certainly not for everyone, so I agree to Carolyn's comment about allowing a child to learn at their own pace if they are suffering that much, and if it is within the parents' means.


Please don't forget the teacher's responsibility toward an entire classroom, and that she cannot sacrifice everything in attempt to make 1 child comfortable. I have worked in bilingual educational environments. The teacher sounds overwhelmed. I have no idea of her class size or experience, but she is certainly clearly expressing her difficulty at teaching and integrating this child.


Nicky, don't give up so easily. Have a stab at any of these helpful comments. Try to build bridges if you can, don't just shut the door on French public school.

The text you are quoting:

The learning style of "baptism by fire" is certainly not for everyone, so I agree to Carolyn's comment about allowing a child to learn at their own pace if they are suffering that much, and if it is within the parents' means.


Please don't forget the teacher's responsibility toward an entire classroom, and that she cannot sacrifice everything in attempt to make 1 child comfortable. I have worked in bilingual educational environments. The teacher sounds overwhelmed. I have no idea of her class size or experience, but she is certainly clearly expressing her difficulty at teaching and integrating this child.


Nicky, don't give up so easily. Have a stab at any of these helpful comments. Try to build bridges if you can, don't just shut the door on French public school.


Carrie O, Jan 10, 2015 @ 14:13
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Post 14

A child (or adult!) who is bored stiff during a lesson that they don't understand will disrupt the group and become "class clown" or rotten kid or whatever. Teachers really struggle with this. 


And I am not only referring to language issues here. 


Who here sat paralyzed at attention at all times during every lesson their whole way through school? Did anyone ever crack jokes, pass notes, tattle, and generally disrupt the classroom? How many teachers were pleased by that?

The text you are quoting:

A child (or adult!) who is bored stiff during a lesson that they don't understand will disrupt the group and become "class clown" or rotten kid or whatever. Teachers really struggle with this. 


And I am not only referring to language issues here. 


Who here sat paralyzed at attention at all times during every lesson their whole way through school? Did anyone ever crack jokes, pass notes, tattle, and generally disrupt the classroom? How many teachers were pleased by that?


Carrie O, Jan 10, 2015 @ 14:21
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Post 15

My piece of advice:

work on yourself more than your problem, 

Challenges are only solved with more wisdom....


Jan 9, 15 14:32

Nicky has been very brave in coming forward about the problem in the first place, and several of us have given insight from different points of view.


It's now up to the parents to sift through the "wisdom" and apply whatever they like.


As I mentioned to a friend once, I could never imagine opening up a MacDrive in a place where driving cars is uncommon. LOL. I hope people will sort of understand what I am saying.


Accepting a life abroad is all well and fine before you actually get there and see the day-to-day challenges.


I am quoting Madonna song lyrics instead of Einstein: "Will you sacrifice your comfort, make your way in a foreign land?"  

The text you are quoting:

Nicky has been very brave in coming forward about the problem in the first place, and several of us have given insight from different points of view.


It's now up to the parents to sift through the "wisdom" and apply whatever they like.


As I mentioned to a friend once, I could never imagine opening up a MacDrive in a place where driving cars is uncommon. LOL. I hope people will sort of understand what I am saying.


Accepting a life abroad is all well and fine before you actually get there and see the day-to-day challenges.


I am quoting Madonna song lyrics instead of Einstein: "Will you sacrifice your comfort, make your way in a foreign land?"  


Carrie O, Jan 10, 2015 @ 14:34
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Post 16

Well, I’m not a mother OR a teacher and if there was a “thumbs down” or a “unthank poster” I’ll probably be in contention for Olympic Gold.

However, to quote Einstein and elaborate on what Seif was possibly trying to say:

“We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them”

You appear to be trying to solve 2 problems here:

1.   Lack of language skills because it’s a local French school

2.   An uncompassionate teacher

So (at the risk of sounding simplistic, but it worked for me when I was young) move schools.

Put him in an InternationalSchool where he’ll have the chance to learn in his own language whilst improving his French at a rate that he feels comfortable with.

So to go back to Einstein, you think the problem is the lack of French when in fact, the problem may just be – it’s the wrong school.


Jan 10, 15 13:25

Carolyn, you may not be a teacher or a mother but you have summarised our issues very well and your opinions are very welcome.


Id like to highlight we have been here since september and have tried on many occasions to communiate with the teacher but will continue to do so.


In the meantime we are looking at international school options although im pretty sure this is not financially possible.  We are also looking at clubs and play dates and all the other suggestions.


Thank you for the time you have all taken to reply

The text you are quoting:

Carolyn, you may not be a teacher or a mother but you have summarised our issues very well and your opinions are very welcome.


Id like to highlight we have been here since september and have tried on many occasions to communiate with the teacher but will continue to do so.


In the meantime we are looking at international school options although im pretty sure this is not financially possible.  We are also looking at clubs and play dates and all the other suggestions.


Thank you for the time you have all taken to reply


Nicky Owen, Jan 12, 2015 @ 12:45
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Post 17

Cartoons (TV) and comics in French can be a fun way to learn.

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Cartoons (TV) and comics in French can be a fun way to learn.


Casuistik, Jan 12, 2015 @ 14:50
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Post 18

Carolyn, you may not be a teacher or a mother but you have summarised our issues very well and your opinions are very welcome.

Id like to highlight we have been here since september and have tried on many occasions to communiate with the teacher but will continue to do so.

In the meantime we are looking at international school options although im pretty sure this is not financially possible.  We are also looking at clubs and play dates and all the other suggestions.

Thank you for the time you have all taken to reply


Jan 12, 15 12:45

You’ve only been here three months, Nicky?  It can take much longer than that before the ice is broken between neighbours, between parents and teachers and even between the school children themselves.  Establishing a cordial relationship can take longer here than in most Anglo-Saxon countries but, once it is, it can be all the more enduring.


 


With the start of a new term, why not try to set up a face-tp-face discussion with your son’s teacher?  If she doesn’t respond, you’ll be fully entitled to contact the head of the school who is responsibility for ensuring that teachers exercise their duties equitably.  If that proves to be a no-go, then perhaps the school is the wrong one after all.


 


Either way, have you contacted the “Mairie” to find activity groups your children could join on their “day off” or at weekends?  The ski holidays are in sight and they can provide another opportunity for your children to meet other youngsters in a fun environment which, in its turn, helps to make it fun to  learn French.


Apart from its very high cost, the International School won’t necessarily be a be-all end-all solution.  There’s less continuity in friendships because pupils come and go as their parents move on to new assignments.  And some children even become so fluent in “pidgin” that they no longer speak (or write) any one language correctly.


 


However, best wishes anyway, R.

The text you are quoting:

You’ve only been here three months, Nicky?  It can take much longer than that before the ice is broken between neighbours, between parents and teachers and even between the school children themselves.  Establishing a cordial relationship can take longer here than in most Anglo-Saxon countries but, once it is, it can be all the more enduring.


 


With the start of a new term, why not try to set up a face-tp-face discussion with your son’s teacher?  If she doesn’t respond, you’ll be fully entitled to contact the head of the school who is responsibility for ensuring that teachers exercise their duties equitably.  If that proves to be a no-go, then perhaps the school is the wrong one after all.


 


Either way, have you contacted the “Mairie” to find activity groups your children could join on their “day off” or at weekends?  The ski holidays are in sight and they can provide another opportunity for your children to meet other youngsters in a fun environment which, in its turn, helps to make it fun to  learn French.


Apart from its very high cost, the International School won’t necessarily be a be-all end-all solution.  There’s less continuity in friendships because pupils come and go as their parents move on to new assignments.  And some children even become so fluent in “pidgin” that they no longer speak (or write) any one language correctly.


 


However, best wishes anyway, R.


Ritchie, Jan 12, 2015 @ 16:41
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Post 19

You’ve only been here three months, Nicky?  It can take much longer than that before the ice is broken between neighbours, between parents and teachers and even between the school children themselves.  Establishing a cordial relationship can take longer here than in most Anglo-Saxon countries but, once it is, it can be all the more enduring.

 

With the start of a new term, why not try to set up a face-tp-face discussion with your son’s teacher?  If she doesn’t respond, you’ll be fully entitled to contact the head of the school who is responsibility for ensuring that teachers exercise their duties equitably.  If that proves to be a no-go, then perhaps the school is the wrong one after all.

 

Either way, have you contacted the “Mairie” to find activity groups your children could join on their “day off” or at weekends?  The ski holidays are in sight and they can provide another opportunity for your children to meet other youngsters in a fun environment which, in its turn, helps to make it fun to  learn French.

Apart from its very high cost, the International School won’t necessarily be a be-all end-all solution.  There’s less continuity in friendships because pupils come and go as their parents move on to new assignments.  And some children even become so fluent in “pidgin” that they no longer speak (or write) any one language correctly.

 

However, best wishes anyway, R.


Jan 12, 15 16:41

Sorry, there’s a typo in the third line of my second paragraph:


“responsibility” should read “responsible”.


Contritely, R.

The text you are quoting:

Sorry, there’s a typo in the third line of my second paragraph:


“responsibility” should read “responsible”.


Contritely, R.


Ritchie, Jan 12, 2015 @ 18:50
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